mr. vitaly, we lost the sound with you, we still can't hear, unfortunately, but now, now, yes, yes, there was a whole story with savink on the line, ugh, in soviet times, people who watched soviet films, they they remember how savinkav was lured to soviet russia, lured to soviet russia, illegally, by people who were agents. where it was announced that they were oppositionists and associates of savinkov, he came, believed that he would have great success, and in the end there was a show trial against savinkov, to whom he told that he agreed with the soviet authorities, and then he as if he committed suicide in the ogpu building, well, we understand that he was simply killed, and you understand. if yes, mr.

vitaly, i ask you again to fix the microphone or do something with the sound, for us and the audience, every word of yours is extremely important, here and there when, when there was such a situation with e, sainka, when i mention prosaenkova, i think about navalny, about yashin, about karamorza, i think it's about the same. situation. stalinkov absolutely did not understand russia, the russia that appeared, and he was sure that he understood, because, well, he lived in russia all his life, he was engaged in revolutionary activities there. he was the commissar of petrograd during the provisional government. how could he think that the country in which he spent so much time has changed so literally in 6-7 years that it is a completely different country, and putin's russia. it

has changed beyond recognition since 2014, and even more so after 2022, it so often happens when the regime goes from authoritarian to totalitarian, by the way, sayenko was already killed after lenin's death, well, this was an important rubicon for the soviet union, and for capabilities of the nkvd forces of all of them, so i think that there is such a problem here that they do not really... understand the country in which they live, they talk about some kind of political activity, so we need to go back to the prisons, set an example , and all this is not there, you understand, that is, their influence on real russia is not really what they have in their heads, but in reality it is zero, and it turns out that when they return to russia, or do not leave russia before the threat of a court sentence, they not only do they shorten their lives. they

in fact, they still create opportunities for russia to hold them hostage, and then exchange real spies for them. you understand, when a person goes to prison because he doesn't even imagine that he can become a victim of such and such repressions, it can be understood, the head of the orlov memorial, how he engaged in public activities that were, as it were, absolutely legal. here they suddenly found some article when he once wrote, you know, and they imprisoned him for discrediting the army, it is difficult to predict very much, because the conditions of the game change every day, is our colleague from radio freedom, she just came there to her mother, was leaving russia, and here and in kazan they say, oh, you have american citizenship, you have not registered, you will be fined, oh, but you should actually sign up as her agent, oops, and we saw that you're some kind of book. edited and

all this month by month, i.e. at first a person does not even think that his position was detained there, so he has to pay a fine and fly on, no, but this is a different situation, on the other hand, of course, the question is how is it right to come to russia if you actually work for an organization that everyone hates, but that's another story, it's hard to predict to the end, especially when you're not in the context, but when you live there and sincerely believe that your landing will become some kind of important... er element in the political process, then again it shows that you do not understand much about what is happening to you, this is a huge problem for all these people, and i noticed it a long time ago , to be honest, they still are have moved, maybe they have always lived in such a quite and real world, because they do not know their population, that's when i heard at their first press conference khrystyna that sanctions should be lifted so that there is no...

ordinary russians, oh, you and i got to the bottom of this issue, the ukrainians, of course, exploded, and pivovarov, a figure from khodorkovsky's orbit, in fact, and... volodymyr karamorza, in principle, with one voice, all of them with one voice began to say that sanctions in in the form in which they currently exist, they hit ordinary russians, and in no way cause any particular damage to the regime there, this, this is additional evidence of their lack of understanding that it was the russians in their majority who created this regime, and they still endow the great russian people with some kind of, i don't know god it's just righteousness and they do it for nothing, well, it's idiocy, well, imagine some anti-fascist in 43 or 44 who say, you know, these bombings of german cities with the aim of destroying the german military industry, they kill

ordinary germans, which are actually very they now have a negative attitude towards hitler, it is obvious that it is necessary to fight, but with whom, with hitler, with goering, with goebbels, with keltenbrunner, and what does ordinary germans have to do with it, ordinary germans are not supporters of this misanthropic regime, and vice versa, when you you are doing them bad, you are only turning them against you, dear allies, well, that's it, it's strange, it's true, although now we can say as much as we want that it hurts us too, that during the second world war , the historical centers of german cities died there, civilians died, this is all a tragedy. but who started it, you can find out who voted for hitler, who was extremely enthusiastic about the start of the second world war and this idea of ​​expanding living space, who for many years after the second world war considered hitler the best chancellor of germany of all times and nations , not the english with the french

and no and not the american, but the germans, well, this is a pretty good question, and here you understand, they all made it up for themselves. and navalny also, that they are political figures, that they may one day win some elections, which are not available, and may not be, and that they should not thus say something that will turn against them the vast majority of what they consider to be their potential electorate, and therefore they should be the defenders of ordinary russians, here putin is bad, you are good, and this is nothing new in this is not this mantra has been around since the 18th and 19th centuries, one must go to the people, work with the people, but we have such a criminal aristocracy, our people are good, but why did they report us to the police, put us in prison, they are probably dark people, they need to be enlightened , to work with him, well that's it

people's voluntarism is famous, well, what's new in russian history, and now it seems that putin himself is walking around. in the houses of ukrainians somewhere in buchichi borodyanetsya, he presses all the buttons himself, he controls all the planes himself, as if it is not the russians who go to the army with these contracts, putin is the only one, but the russians, in principle, are beautiful, wonderful, nothing happens to them. here's the number one question: why is that? why do they even have such an amazing idea that they came up with? and why they live with this idea, because they all the time they think that they are political figures, but they are not political figures, well, of course, you can imagine that in more or less cannibalistic times, yashin could have been elected a deputy in some district there, but that is also nothing, well, they elected you a deputy in the district , do you deal

with some kind of sewage and other district matters, signs, street names, well, that does not affect the system. you only legitimize it, because the system always says: you see, we have such a democracy, we even have yashin, a critic of putin, a district deputy, huh, and by the way, what yashin does in his first interview, he says that negotiations are necessary, people are dying on both sides, a tragedy, it's clear, of course, it may be unpleasant for ukrainians, but we will clearly say that. the ukrainians say that putin will have time to prepare, but they will also have time to prepare for a new war, well, this is not a russian, but a chinese method, let’s put it this way, it turns out that way, it’s strange, but there is another point here, khrystyna , i don't think

these people should be in jail for that, they were put in jail because by and large they defended our truth as well, they hang out... but against the war, you understand, the difference in political views, views, this is not a reason for what we thought, let them sit there for 25 years, because that can go a long way , about the same as... what were the russians counting on when they killed irina fario? there are many people who do not support her, so they should be happy that she was killed, and her supporters will be in mourning and there will be division. and we said: listen, well, the problem is not her views, and our views, they killed a ukrainian citizen, a ukrainian politician, a person who believed in ukrainian statehood, and if we had different views, we discussed with her what this statehood should look like. this is not a political issue, it is the same here, we may have different views with karamurza, yashin and

pivovarov, but they were against the dictatorship, against the war, well, i say again, yashina, we can disagree 300 times, but he was put behind bars a critic of the war, he was put in prison simply because he was against the war, we say a lot, but why don't the russians speak out against the war, here i spoke again, he was put in prison for a long time, and that's why, of course you know. these people, if there is such an opportunity, it is an absolutely normal humanitarian duty of the west, if there is an opportunity, i say again, but returning to the question of what putin received as a result of this exchange, on the one hand, his murderer krasikov and his ilk, and on the other hand, well, in fact, he received outside lobbyists for the lifting of sanctions from the russian federation, or changes to these sanctions so that they , again, there is no such thing at all. meaning, i'll tell you honestly, uh, about the fact that there are a lot people who are representatives of the russian opposition,

who say that the sanctions against russia should be lifted, they have been saying this since 20202, someone will say it more, someone less, you understand, this will disappear, as it always happens in the information space, well , the first press conference, well, the thesis, well , we talked, then people disappear from the information field, already appear among other russian oppositionists, i... i don’t have at all, i don’t think that it has any serious political significance , because if he decides that sanctions should be lifted from russia, they will definitely be removed not because the russian oppositionists are talking about it, but now there is no reason to believe that this will happen, so you understand, the problem of sanctions is not this, the problem of sanctions is that we made a clear discovery for these 2.5 years that there are two economies in the world, the western economy and the global economy. south and by and large sanctions, even the strongest sanctions of the west, cannot

force someone to take any decisive action if this head of state can survive at the expense of economies of countries of the global south. this is a huge danger for the future for everyone, because we have been saying since 2014 that if the west introduced sanctions against russia, sanctions from hell, the most sanctions, that's when. would stop the war, but they do not introduce it, and the west said, oh, if such sanctions are introduced, putin can start a big war, it is better, then, to continue working economically, so that he needs to have some interest, do you remember, yes, ugh, north stream one, north stream two, we'll get him interested in business, and that's 2022, that's it it didn't work, no one was interested, a big war started, sa... from hell appeared, limits even on russian oil prices, europe got rid of russian

gas in a few years and what, and nothing, well, russia has problems, but not those that force putin to stop the war, why, because china buys oil, india buys oil, other countries of the global cock cooperate with russia, turkey, saudi arabia, the republic of south africa, brazil, all these economies, of course, cannot be compared with the volume of western economies you can but chinese is possible, and chinese is possible, so it means that it just doesn’t work anymore, and the west didn’t understand it, and we didn’t understand it, that here is this important argument that was always supposed to work, it didn’t work, so there is countries that are under huge western sanctions, the three russia, iran, north korea, against this background, it is huge. sanctions, north korea has developed its nuclear program, has nuclear weapons, china

is helping it survive, iran is close to creating an atomic bomb, north korea and iran are helping russia with weapons, two countries, which are under western sanctions, north korea, even under sanctions that are approved by the un, other countries can help with weapons. sanctions not only limit, but also untie the hands in a certain sense, it turns out, well, the problem is not even that, but the problem is that iran is under such serious sanctions and the president... trump even in his time got out of this of the nuclear agreement, so that iran would be under sanctions, so that its economy would not develop, and this iran, which remained under sanctions, is, firstly, close to nuclear bombs, and secondly, organized a massive attack against israel, well, it didn't end well because it was repelled, but it

was a massive attack, and no one in iran is starving in the streets, right? yes, and in russia. nobody dies of hunger, and i will tell you that it is by and large a vicious circle, and it is much more important than what the karamurza from yashino and pivavaru says there, that the west cooperates fruitfully with china, cooperates fruitfully with india, invests huge money into their economies, buys their products, the purchase of their products, stimulates them to buy new volumes of oil, gives them dollars, currency, they then... buy oil and gas from russia, because they need all this in order to further sell products to the west, they still pay from russia in yuan and rupees, that is, they do not lose anything at all, but one way or another, russia can provide itself with this money a certain standard and social military-industrial complex, and this can

continue ad infinitum, the chinese supply russia with... in part, so to speak , details, let's say, for the military products, maybe he doesn't supply the weapon itself, let's believe what sidzimpin tells president zelensky, but when you supply two parts from which you can assemble a weapon, it's still the same as supplying a weapon, and that's what confuses me much more, you understand, because the fact that the west will not cancel any sanctions against russia, i think you understand, i... understand, i will tell you more, i also understand karamurza karamurza and yashin, they are experienced people, they are all fine understand, they are not saying it for the event, but again, for this conditional russian electorate, which, in their opinion , may one day appear, i doubt it, but

at the same time, this confuses me more, because i don't see it. reasons to believe that the russian economy, as a result of this vicious circle, will not come to such times that they will really think, listen, we are approaching a complete collapse, we need to end the war, because otherwise we will not survive, we understand very well, even if the war is suspended, none sanctions against russia will not be lifted, this is a complex mechanism, the jackson wenik amendment. the famous one, which prohibited access to the soviet union of high-tech products, was introduced under president nixon, and it was canceled already after against for each specific former soviet republic already in the 21st century, when everyone has already forgotten why it was introduced and this

topic, which was connected with it, it was the free immigration of jews from the soviet union, simply no longer exists. soviet did not exist of the union, there was no ban on the exit of jews, nothing existed, except for the amendment, the same will happen with these sanctions, the war will end, there will be some agreements, trump will become president, that if trump becomes president, it does not matter who becomes president, it will not in this term, i tell you once again, kara murza may be the president, not trump, and the amendment will be in effect. in the days of the russian federation, in the days of yeltsin, this amendment was simply suspended for a year every year, it was not canceled, so why is trump here? trump on this moment can lie somewhere in the grave for a long time, not because he will be killed, but because he will already be 100 years old, well, let him live to 120, so to speak, but he is also not eternal, so it does not matter meaning, that is, some sanctions can

be canceled, but again, it must go through the congress and be agreed upon. do you understand what the cancellation of sanctions is, you have the sanctions of the european union, they were adopted unanimously, they can be lifted unanimously if one country, conditional poland or conditional estonia says, sorry, we do not we believe that they have already earned it, there will be no lifting of sanctions, unless in the united states the congress votes to lift the sanctions, there will be no lifting of sanctions, and this is a whole, a whole story for a decade, in russia everyone... perfectly understands this , that there will be no more cancellation of sanctions, that this is not related to the war at all, they can demand something there, conditionally speaking, remove the limits on the sale of ours. oil so that we can sell it at a higher price, it can be, the limits can be canceled, or there give opportunities for safe the transportation of some products that are not subject to sanctions, let's say agricultural products, something else, it can

be anything, but it does not solve anything definitively, but what is really important, it is true, is the possibility of unfreezing russian assets, this may be of interest to them, because it's... crude money, relatively speaking, and it's not sanctions, it's just assets that aren't issued to them, but they 're there, and they're there, they don't get any profits from it, but they're there, they can talk about it , but this is not only a small part of the sanctions policy, but the real sanctions policy is financial transactions, for banks, it is a ban on the sale of a whole range of products there. goods that, this is cooperation with various firms, you understand that if such a number of firms are in the concern, in banks, if it has already left, then

in order to return to it , it will also take 20 years, well, again, baptism well , remember how many of these western companies came to ukraine without any sanctions, but in 1991, this communist system collapsed, a market economy began, and what do we have with... western concerns, not really, we have, i 'm sorry, we still have now what year 2020 is the fourth, we still don't have starbucks, still, this is just an ordinary example, uh, we still don't have ikea on the scale that this concern is there are in europe, i'm just telling you, just call, so to speak, the brands are understood by ordinary people. well, to the consumer, i’ll allow myself a small comment, many economists say that starbucks and ikea have their own considerations regarding

the market in ukraine and the ability of ukrainians to pay for their products, and if we have competitors of the appropriate level as well, well, this is just a remark, in many small central european countries, where the market is smaller and where there are fewer opportunities, they always opened these... er, brands, and this is just one example, of course, correct , there are considerations, but now imagine a company that needs to return to russia after years of war, sanctions and so on, and this company also begins to calculate, and why not to return, and what is wrong with the market, and whether they are able to buy, and whether this is not a risk, but we will return, and in three years we will again they will say, you have to leave, we are introducing sanctions, you can't continue to work there, maybe it's better to wait 15 years? and there is nowhere to return, why should we go back there, we would rather go to mexico than to go to a country that has just started a war, and

where is the guarantee that it will not start it in a year, who will give us a guarantee, this is business, so i i tell you once again, no one will go back there, this train has already left, but you see certain brands are returning to ukraine, because they can afford to come back and... to come and go, because it is not related to their reputation, on the contrary , it shows how humanistic they are, i would say, that they are ready to work in the market even in a country where there is a war, and with russia everything will be completely different, so no, that's all, you know, as they say, dead is dead, and in this respect i'm not interested in it at all, i mean, i'm interested in something else, like the russian economy... can survive for a long time when it becomes part of the chinese economy, conditionally, when chinese brands, chinese investments, chinese participation in military-industrial

complex and in the consumer market, well, that’s it, the russians themselves didn’t expect it, they thought when the sanctions would start, they were preparing for it, they were preparing, i would say, because for many decades, when president putin first became president, he after a few years ago, he began to tell the oligarchs that it was necessary to withdraw money to russia or to some friendly countries, that he was a guarantee of money for the west. does not give anyone why they kept part of their assets there is another question, but i have heard such conversations since 2000. and lo, and lo, now in this same situation, we see that in russia they were preparing, preparing, they decided that when western sanctions come, they will refocus on the countries of the global south, diversify the risks, and... china, exactly one china. and this is a really serious problem. mr. vitaly, regarding the events in the middle east, i also

cannot help but ask. this week culminated in the elimination of the leaders of hamas and hezbollah, as for hezbollah, it happened after 12 children died on a sports field in israel. we definitely understand the scale of the humanitarian catastrophe in the gas sector, but we return again to the topic of what started with terrorist approaches, the proxy armies of iran in the first place. in the elimination of hamas, the coup took place in tehran at the moment when the newly elected president was taking the oath of office in this country, one of the high-ranking diplomats from the european commission was even dispatched to this event, it is very interesting, and the first question to you, surely you should not hope that that the effectiveness of the activities of these terrorist groups will practically somehow change, because one of the leaders died there,

right? no, it's wrong. and i was a very serious figure. and if it is true that mohamed deif, the leader of the military wing of hamas, also died. these are quite serious blows to the structure. ugh. and this, by the way, can seriously change the situation in the termination negotiations. because there is information that ismail khaniyaka was just trying to disrupt these negotiations all the time. first, because he was connected very much. strongly always with the iranians and with the russians, he was the first to go to moscow from the hamasites when he was prime minister palestinian authority, they invited him there, plus his contacts with iran. secondly, he just has such a political position. he was considered soft there from the point of view of general relations with israel, but it is not clear what this softness was. we saw how he behaved on october 7, 23,

when... he was just happy that those children and women were killed, but at the same time, in the approaches to stop the hostilities, he turned out to be a very tough negotiator, who kept refusing the final result, and those khalasovitsa who are on gas yahi sinwar let's say they were already prepared for certain conditions and he kept breaking them, so i suppose that just his death could change the situation, unless it leads to a greater escalation in terms of there is an exchange of blows between. this is another story, so no, it’s zmi, and it’s basically, as you understand, if you destroy the entire politburo of hamas, the effectiveness of this organization will hurt a lot, but if there is no longer haniya, there is no deif, khaled mashal remains yahisenvar of such rather serious people, mahabeda bu marzuk, but he does not play such a prominent role, it is a problem for them, khania is a big problem in general,

he is a person with a huge number of political connections. and the level of connections that he had and trust in him, no one from hamas has ever had that, i mean international, and this is a man who was said to have $4 billion there from the wealth that he could also use for tamas, so it's not a joke, but there's another story here, another story that the iranians certainly can't help but answer, they're just scared, nobody understands how it happened, because at first they said about... that he killed two people , you already know that next to hania's room , only in a large building where many people were there, there was an apartment where the leader of another terrorist organization lived, islamic jihad, well, nothing happened to him, at all, so something happened there. in this

very number of khania, and if it is true that the mossad used employees of the security system, this security service, the top leaders of iran, which is subordinate to the command of the corps guardians of the islamic revolution, can you imagine how ameniy and other iranian leaders feel, that is, if their bodyguards can participate in planting bombs in their own residences, then who will protect them? that's why they are scared in the literal sense of the word, it just shows that they have no security, that they have a wooden state, by the way, do you remember that the russians wanted to bribe zelensky's security guards, do you remember, but we they found out about it, but the iranians did not, so why do we say that we do not always have an efficient state, but here already it turned out that we have a more efficient state than iran.