and this is a person who served in the federal security of the russian federation, and before that in the kgb, that is, he is simply a person from the same corporation as putin, close to putin personally, i even believe that he was once his bodyguard during the st. petersburg period of putin's activities, when putin was the vice-mayor of st. petersburg, and of course in this situation it was very important for putin to show that people who carry out his orders cannot remain in prison, especially since in the case of krasyuk it was a matter of life imprisonment. and by the way, i want to remind you that putin is personally came to the airport to meet these people who were released, he hugged krasikov and told him: great, and by and large , after but krasikov, this was the second such russian prisoner among western prisoners, and it was very important for putin to so that he would be released, but there was such a problem that krasikov was in germany, germany does not often go to such ot...

so, putin needed the united states to be interested in releasing its citizens, that these citizens of the united states was an important goal of the american administration to have the american administration cooperate with the german government on the release of krasikov, that was such an important point, you know, the russians started just taking american citizens hostage, that's how our colleague from... who was released on that exchange, others were known hostages of american citizenship, a former marine, our colleague from radio liberty, and here now let's look at the american interest, it was very important for joseph biden to release these people precisely in during his presidency, because the biggest nightmare of any american. president, that's

what happened to jimmy carter. in the last period of his tenure, jimmy carter conducted negotiations with iran on the release of american diplomats who were then held hostage by the american and iranian leadership in tehran. and he spent practically all the work on this exchange, his administration was successful. however, then in november, as always happens in the united states, jimmy carter lost the election to ronald reagan. and the iranians released these people in a day ronald reagan's inauguration. and biden , of course, wanted to prevent such a situation in any case. first, that it should happen during his term of office. the second thing is that it doesn't happen, you know, that he did all the work and then trump won the election all of a sudden. and on the day of trump's inauguration, his new celebration putin releases the american ones takes place.

you see, i became the president and everything began to be resolved even more, even if it happened after november, when trump said: "not even my inauguration, russia is already afraid of us." that is, it had to happen precisely until november, this is a very important moment, this is a moment of american interest. now the moment of german interest. germany was very reluctant to go to... we see it, it even caused an outpouring of emotions in the german media, it means that the federal chancellor needed that he is not just freeing american citizens in exchange for a handsome man, but that he is freeing german citizens, and putin just went to take the germans hostage, even lukashenko got involved in this adventure, you know that lukashenko...

just a few weeks before that the death sentence of a german citizen, in general no one understands what this person really did, and lukashenko pardoned this person after the death sentence, this is not even a life sentence for you, i'm sorry, and of course it was important for germany that this little humanitarian context, i.e. the head of the german ministry. minister of foreign affairs berbek, you know, she is a representative of the green party, she was categorically against the release of the krats and believed that it would be a disaster, morally, and olaf scholz and antony blinkin and all the others convinced her that no, people's lives are more important than such things, let krasikov sit in russia, but the main thing is that we free american citizens and your citizens, german citizens, but one more important humanitarian component was added, these are russian political prisoners, well, more like that... in principle,

the west believed that if we replaced, say, krasikov with navalny, then germany would not have any at all. special questions, because you know that angela merkel personally took care of navalny's fate, after his poisoning, he was treated in sharite, and if it happened like that, you see, a handsome man is released, and along with it american citizens navalny, several more russian politicians, then this would not cause any indignation of public opinion, and they believed that putin was even ready go for it, there is information about him. it was roman abramovich talking and putin seemed to be interested in it, but just a few days before this exchange, navalny died, that is, it was such a cynical game that we had already agreed on the exchange, in principle, we decided who and what, but here is navalny died, and the exchange was postponed for a few months,

because then they again began to think, who can be included in this exchange so that this exchange is humanitarian? they included these russian law enforcers, by the way, i don't understand why they didn't include the belarusian ones, if there was a person who was wronged by lukashenko, the nobel laureate ales biletsky, let's say, he is in prison, who received the nobel prize together with our oleksandra mitveichuk and her organization, well, there are many political prisoners in belarus after the 20th year, maybe someone at least was needed include also, well, this... this is a rhetorical question, i am just asking for a measurement, well, that means that all these interests converged, because germany was interested in the fact that there would still be such a humanitarian moment as the liberation from the russian in prisons, if novalny is no longer there, well, there are several iconic russian

political prisoners who spoke out against putin's regime and against the war, you know that yashin left simply under the military article, and there are still a few people there. who left precisely because they condemned russia's war against ukraine, to kara murzy there is a more serious charge, there is treason, there is 25 years, it seems, there is something like that, here, but there are other people, they went about what just fakes about the army and so on, so on, oleg orlov, chairman of the board of the now banned memorial , so in this regard it was also important for the germans to demonstrate that they were free. from russian prisons of people who protested against putin's war of aggression against ukraine, well, this is also an important point, and several people immediately from fbk, from this navalny fund, well, there is no navalny, but we at least we give his associates from russian regions the opportunity to get their freedom, well , if this approach is logical, it is clear what

happened, mr. vitaly, if i understood you correctly, then there is a possibility that alexei navalny, well, let's put it this way.. . could have died in connection with this exchange, assuming, of course, that he died in connection with this exchange, that they just laughed at the event, huh, and as for them, they already understood that krasikov will be released, i am asking so-and-so that krasikov will be released, but at they will not give navalny’s symbol to this, but at the same time they will not give navalny, of course, this was their main idea, that in principle the parameters of the exchange are clear, this exchange will take place in general, because biden is interested in it, the americans need to be released, but without navalny, well it was such a cynical, cruel game of theirs. on the other hand, i have always told you and i will tell you now that i do not understand the logic of people at all, it will never

convince me, who go to pretrial detention and then, realizing that they will be sent to prison, and then we will have to... pay for them, let's say, all these russian bandits and spies. well, navalny returned to russia from germany, we remember that after the poisoning. what did he expect? karamurza was also tried to be tripled several times. in the end , they gave him 25 years. the situation with yashin is also strange, because he says that he wanted in the first place. to return to russia and continue his activities there, but he will not return, because he understands that then there will be no exchanges, he wanted people to be released in the future, and i never understood that and i understand, they say that this is courage, but it seems to me that this is just a misunderstanding of the situation,

that these people invented some kind of country for themselves that does not exist, and will not exist during their lifetime, and they simply fall into the ... russian regime, i don't i know, whether you have read or watched, there was once, there was exactly such a situation in the 20s , i think, years of our century. with the famous russian politician boris savink, who was a famous terrorist of the time of the empire, and then, when the soviet union already appeared, and the whites lost the elections, he was aser, that is a socialist, a revolutionary, he created a fairly influential opposition organization, and he was ready for armed struggle, and as you understand, he knew what armed struggle was. why was he a terrorist, the head of a combat organization, mr. vitaly, we lost

the sound with you, we still don't hear, unfortunately, but now, now yes, yes, on the phone, there was a whole story with savinko, ugh, in soviet times , people who watched soviet films, they remember how savinkov was lured to soviet russia, lured. soviet russia illegally, people who were nkvd agents announced that they, oppositionists and associates of savinkav, he came, believed that he would have great success, and in the end there was a show trial against tsavinkov, whom he told that he agreed with the soviet authorities, and then he seems to have ended his life by suicide in the ogpu building. well, we understand that he was simply killed. yes, mr. vitaly, i ask you again

to fix the microphone or do something with the sound? for us and the audience , your every word is extremely important. and when, when there was such a situation with sainkov, when i remember about salenkov, i think. navalny, about yashin, about karamorza. i think it's about the same situation. tanka absolutely did not understand russia, the russia that appeared, and he was sure that he understood, because he had lived in russia all his life, he was engaged in revolutionary activities there, he was the commissar of petrograd during the time of the provisional government, as he could have thought that the country in which he spent so much time had changed so literally in 6-7 years. this is a completely different country, and putin's russia, it has been since

2014, and even more so after 2022 changed beyond recognition, it so often happens when the regime goes from an authoritarian to a totalitarian state, by the way, sayenka believes that they were killed already after the death of lenin, ugh, this was an important rubicon for the union of ardennes and for the capabilities of the forces. the nkvd is all of them, so i think that there is such a problem here that they do not really understand the country in which they live, they talk about some kind of political activity, but it is necessary to return to the prisons, to set an example, and that is all there is , you understand, that is, their influence on real russia, real not what they have in their heads, but in reality, it is zero, and it turns out that when they return to russia, or do not leave russia in the face of the threat of a court sentence, they not only shorten their lives, they

actually create opportunities in order for russia to hold them as hostages, huh, and then exchange real spies for them, you know, when a person goes to prison because he does not even imagine that he can become a victim of such repressions, it is understandable, the head of the orlov memorial, like him, was engaged in public... activities, which are like would be absolutely legal, here they suddenly found some article when he once wrote, you know, and they imprisoned him for discrediting the army, it is very difficult to predict, because the conditions of the game change every day, or our colleague from radio liberty, she just came there to of her mother, was leaving russia, and here and in kazan they say, oh, you have american citizenship, you did not register, there is a fine for you, oh, but you... in fact, you should have registered as her agent, oh, but we saw that you edited some book, and that

everything from month to month, i.e. at first a person doesn’t even think that the citizens have been detained there, so you have to pay a fine and fly on, no, but this is a different situation, on the other hand, of course, the question is how correct it is to come to russia in general, if you work for actually an organization that everyone hates, but that's another story, it's hard to predict until the end, especially when you're not in the context, but when you live there... and you sincerely believe that your landing will be some important element in the political process, then that's it again says that you understand little about what is happening. with you, this is a huge problem for all these people and i noticed it a long time ago, to be honest, they have moved after all, maybe they have always lived in this quite and real world, because they do not know their population, that's when i heard at their first press conference, khrystyna, that sanctions should be lifted so that ordinary

russians don't feel bad, oh, you and i got to the bottom of this issue, the ukrainians of course exploded, and and... vovarov, a figure from khodorkovsky's orbit, in fact, and volodymyr karamorza, in principle, with one voice, all of them with one voice began to say that the sanctions in the form in which they currently exist hit ordinary russians, and in no way harm them some kind of specific damage to the regime, this, this is additional evidence of their lack of understanding that it was the russians who created this regime for the most part, and they all... divide the great russian people by some, i don’t know, divine, just righteousness, and very much for nothing they do it, well, it's idiocy, well, imagine some anti-fascist in 403 or 44 who say: you know, these bombings of german cities to destroy the german military industry, they kill

ordinary germans, who are actually very negative now about hitler, obviously. what should be fought, but who, with hitler, with göring, with goebbels, with kaltonbrunner, and why not, ordinary germans, ordinary germans are not supporters of this people of a hateful regime, and vice versa, when you do them harm, you only turn them against you, dear allies, well, that's it, it's strange, really, although now we can say as much as we want that it hurts us too, that during the second world war , the historical centers of german cities died there. civilians died, this is all a huge tragedy, but you can find out who started it , who voted for hitler, who was very enthusiastic about the beginning of the second world war and this idea of ​​expanding living space, who was still many years after the second world war world war i considered hitler the best chancellor of germany of all times and nations, not the english and the french and

not the americans, but the germans, ugh, that’s the same question to... not bad, and here, you understand, they all made up their own minds, and navalny too, that they are political figures, that they can one day win in some election, which there is no and may not be, and that they should not thus say something that will turn against them the vast majority of what they consider their potential electorate, and therefore they should be the defenders of ordinary russians, here is putin... bad, you are good, and there is nothing new in this, this mantra has existed since the 18th and 19th centuries, we must go to the people, work with the people, here we have such a criminal aristocracy, our people are good, but why did they report us to the police, put us in prison, they are probably dark people, we need to educate them, work with them, well, this

is people’s voluntarism, ugh, what’s new in russian stories? well, now it seems as if putin himself walks around the houses of ukrainians, somewhere in buchich, a borodyan, presses all the buttons himself, controls all the planes himself, as if it is not the russians who go to the army with these contracts, it is putin alone, and the russians in principles, they are beautiful, wonderful, nothing happens to them, that's the number one question, why is that, uh, why do they even have them. such an amazing idea that they have, and why they live with this idea, because they think all the time that they are political figures, and they are not political figures, well, of course, you can imagine that in more or less cannibalistic times, yashin could have been elected a deputy in some district there, but that is also nothing, well, they elected you a deputy in the district,

are you engaged in some kind of sewage, and also... some district affairs, signs, street names, well, the system is not influences, you only legitimize it, because the system always says: you see, we have such a democracy, we even have yashin, a critic of putin, a district deputy, huh, and by the way, what does yashin do in his first interview, he says, negotiations are needed on both sides, people are dying, a tragedy, that's clear, of course it can happen to ukrainians. it's unpleasant, but we will clearly say that the ukrainians say that putin will have time to prepare, but they will also have time to prepare for a new war, well... this one is not russian, but chinese methodist, let's put it this way, that's how it turns out, that is, it's strange, but there is another point,

christina, i don't think that these people should be in prison because of this, they were put in prison, that's why that by and large they defended our truth as well, they opposed the war, you understand, the difference in political views, views, this is not a reason for what we considered, let them sit there for 25 years, because then, you can go far come in, it's about the same as what the russians were counting on when they killed irina fario, here's a lot of people who don't support her, therefore they should rejoice that she was killed, and her supporters will be sad and there will be division, and we said: listen, well, the problem is not what her views are, and our views are, they killed a ukrainian citizen, a ukrainian politician, a person who believed in ukrainian statehood. and if we had different views, we discussed with her what this statehood should look like, it is not a matter of political opinion, and here too, we may have different views with karamurza, yashin there pivovarov, but they were against

the dictatorship, against war, well i say again yashin, we can disagree three thousand times, but he was jailed for criticizing the war, he was put in prison simply because he was against the war, we say a lot, but why don't russians oppose the war, yashin spoke up, he was jailed . for a long time, and therefore, of course, the release of these people, if there is such an opportunity, is an absolutely normal humanitarian duty of the west, if there is an opportunity, i say again, but returning to the question of what putin received as a result of this exchange, on the one hand, his killer krasikov and his ilk, and on the other side, well, in fact, he got lobbyists to lift the sanctions from the russian federation. or changes to these sanctions so that they , again, i think it does not matter at all, i will tell you honestly that there are many people, representatives of the russian opposition, who say that

sanctions should be lifted against russia, ordinary russians, they they have been saying this since 20202, some will say it more, some will say it less, you understand, this one will disappear, as it always happens in the information space, well, the first press conference, well, the thesis, well, we talked, then people disappear from the information... fields are already appearing among other russian bases, i do not have at all, i do not think that this has any serious political significance, because if it is decided that sanctions should be lifted from russia, there will definitely be to shoot not because the russian oppositionists are talking about it, but now there is no reason to believe that this will happen, so you understand, the problem of sanctions is not this, the problem of sanctions is that we made a clear discovery during these 2.5 years that... there are two economies in the world, the economy of the west, the economy of the global south, and by and large sanctions, even the strongest sanctions of the west

cannot force someone to take any decisive action if this head of state can survive at the expense of the economy of a country of the global south. this is a huge danger for the future for everyone, because we have been talking since 2014, what if the west introduced sanctions against russia. sanctions from hell, the biggest sanctions, but then putin would stop the war, but he does not introduce them, and the west said: oh, if such sanctions are introduced, putin can start a big war, so it is better to continue to work economically, so that he needed , he had some interest, remember, yes, one northern stream, one northern stream-2, we will interest him in business, and in 2022 , all this did not work, no one knew anyone... interesting , a great war began, sanctions from hell appeared, limits even on the prices of russian oil, europe

got rid of russian gas in a few years and what, and nothing, well , russia has problems, but not those that force putin to stop the war, why, because china buys oil, india buys oil, other countries of the global cock cooperate with russia, turkey, saudi arabia. the republic of south africa, brazil, large economies, all this, of course, cannot be compared with the volume of western economies, but china can, and china can, so it means that it simply does not work anymore, and the west did not understand this, and we they did not understand that this is an important argument that was always supposed to work, it did not work, there are countries that are under huge western sanctions, three russians. iran, north korea. against this background of these huge sanctions, north korea has developed its nuclear program, has atomic weapons. china is coming.

helps to survive, iran is close to creating an atomic bomb, north korea and iran are helping russia with weapons, two countries that are under western sanctions, north korea, even under sanctions that are approved by the un, other countries can help with weapons, sanctions not only limit, but they untie their hands in some sense, it turns out, well, that's not even the problem. because iran, under such serious sanctions, and president trump, even in his own time, left the of this nuclear agreement, so that iran would be under sanctions, so that its economy would not develop, and here is this iran, which remained after sanctions, firstly, close to an atomic bomb, and secondly, organized a large-scale attack against israel, well, let it not end successfully, because it was repelled, but it was a massive attack and... no one in iran

is dying of starvation in the streets, right? yes, and nobody dies of hunger in russia, and i will tell you that it is by and large a vicious circle, and this is much more important than what karamurza says there yashin and pivovaro, that the west cooperates fruitfully with china, cooperates fruitfully with india, invests huge sums of money in their economies, buys their products, the purchase of their products, stimulates them to buy new volumes of... oil, gives them dollars, currency, they then they buy oil and gas from russia, because they need all this in order to further sell products to the west, they settle with russia in yuan and rupees, that is, they do not lose anything at all, but one way or another, russia can provide itself with this money for a certain standard and social military-industrial complex, and this can

continue indefinitely. china, which supplies russia with parts, so to speak, parts, let’s say, for military products, maybe it doesn’t supply the weapons itself, let’s believe what sydzimpin tells president zelensky here, but when you supply two parts from which you can assemble a weapon , then it 's still the same thing that you're supplying weapons, and that's what confuses me much more, you know, because in... that the west will not lift any sanctions against russia, i think you understand, i understand, i'll tell you more, karamuza, karamurza and yashin also understand, they are experienced people, they understand everything perfectly, they say this not for the west, but again for this conditional russian electorate, which, in their opinion, may one day appear, although i doubt it but

at the same time... this is what confuses me more, because i don't see any reason to believe that there will not be times for the russian economy as a result of this vicious circle where they will really think: listen, we are approaching full sinkhole and we need to finish war, because otherwise we will not survive. we understand very well that even if the war is suspended, no sanctions against russia will be lifted. this is a complex mechanism. the famous jackson venick amendment, which banned the entry of high -tech products into the soviet union, was introduced under president nixon. and it was canceled already after against for each specific former soviet republic already in the 21st century. when everyone has already forgotten why it was

introduced. and this topic was connected with it, it was the free emigration of jews from the soviet union simply did not exist anymore, the soviet union did not exist, there was no ban on the exit of jews, nothing existed, except for the amendment, the same will happen with these sanctions, the war will end, there will be some agreements, trump will become the president, what if trump becomes the president, it does not matter who will become the president, it will not be in this term, i tell you again, it may already be the president... and not trump, but the amendment will be in effect, in the days of the russian federation, in the days of yeltsin, this amendment was simply suspended per year every year, it was not canceled, therefore moreover, here is trump, at this moment trump may lie somewhere in the grave for a long time, not because he will be killed, but because he will already be 100 years old, well , let him live to 120, so to speak, but he is not eternal either , so it doesn't matter.