we honor the memory of all those who died in this terrible russian-ukrainian war, which was unleashed by the aggressor country russia. after that, our colleagues from rfe/rl will continue the broadcast, stay tuned. let's observe a moment of silence in memory of the ukrainian military and civilian citizens of ukraine who died in the war . unleashed by russia.

in kovel, the police are looking for the organizers of the protests near the tsk. because of the rally, three conscripts could not pass the vlk and were released. and the ministry of defense has an initiative. allow military units directly to mobilize men to bypass tsk, will this improve the quality of mobilization? well, they want to allow mps, judges, officials, and prosecutors to travel abroad without hindrance, however, reserved or with a delay. we will discuss many interesting and important topics today, this is svoboda ranok, my name is kateryna nekrech, and we are starting. in kovel, in volyn, there are ongoing local conflicts between the tcc and local residents, just like the police the day before. and reported that

they had come to the call because a man was threatening to beat conscripts in the mall he will kill them, he was detained and a report was drawn up under the article of hooliganism. two more proceedings were opened by the kovel police due to the protest under the building of the tsk that took place this weekend. according to the police, there were about 200 people there, and they demanded the release of three men who were detained by the tsk representatives for checking their military registration documents at a checkpoint near the city of shatsk. the police... opened two criminal proceedings for violation of public order and say that they will find out who were the participants in this protest, whether it had organizers and whether people gathered spontaneously. in the volyn regional trade center, when everything has calmed down. and people went their separate ways, wrote that

they analyzed the facts and decided that this conflict, i quote, was supported and directed in the necessary direction by the russian special services, allegedly the activity of hundreds of bots was detected in social networks, the situation was completely provoked with the aim of discrediting the current government and countering the mobilization measures. it is interesting that in a conversation with me, the press officer of the volyn tcc tsp, ulyana kravchuk said, that relatives and acquaintances of the detainees gathered near the building. lawyers, later, maybe other people came out of curiosity. she also claimed that the detention of the men in order to clarify their military registration documents took place with the participation of the police, although the police denied this to us and said that they came to the tcc on the summons of the detainees themselves and their relatives, although later the press officer of the tcc did confirm: there were still no policemen at the checkpoint. the details of this incident in kovel and what we managed to learn from the police and representatives of the tsc.

let's look at the story of my colleagues iryna ostrovska and bohdan lugunov. good evening, it's six in the evening on the clock. we are located near the trade center in the city of kovel. i appealed today because our people were kidnapped when they were returning from work at 90 in the morning. at the moment, no one opens the door for us, that is, the employees have closed, our people have been stolen, they are being illegally obtained without legal assistance. such videos began to be distributed en masse on saturday the third. august in the local groups of kovel, in volyn. residents of the city gathered under district tsk and demanded the release of three men who were detained earlier that day by representatives of the military police. they are using weapons against the civilian population, they breached the wall, entered the territory, they are releasing the boys, they are putting forward some conditions, let the boys go.

the volyn oblast tsk explains that the men were stopped at a checkpoint in shatsk, they did not have any military ids with them. documents, so they received a summons to clarify the data at the kovel military district and agreed to go there. they were on their way cars, and from shatsk to kovel, from one territorial assembly center to another, where they had already passed the military medical commission, one of our cars accompanied them, and the second car was theirs, their personal one, that is, they themselves drove their cars, but yes... escorted, at that very moment they were accompanied only by representatives of the territorial procurement center. it was already found out in the kovel tsk that there are no data of these men in the oberig register either, so they were sent to undergo a military medical examination. those are not

objected, say the tcc, but the examination had to be interrupted due to actions under the walls of the military. we learned about the complaints directly when we started to collect them. to gather near the kovelsky district and sp, women, lawyers, moreover, quite a lot of people who gathered near the kovelsky rtc were completely unfamiliar with these men, and did not know who they were, what they were and what theirs was, how old they were, that is, today we hear the story that these guys, that these guys are not... are conscripts, that they are 19-20 years old, i assure you that they, they is conscripted, and they are already 25 plus years old, as it turned out, the relatives and lawyers of the men contacted the police because of their

detention, there were several calls to line 102 during that day, that is, those men were there when they were already placed in the premises of the territorial police. .. of the recruitment and social support center, they turned for help to the defense, to the lawyer-lawyer, that is, there were several calls to line 102, and then there were calls from other people, from their relatives, already closer to the evening, when several dozen people were near premises of the tsk-tsp in kovel, there were also calls from military personnel that people were coming, they arranged an impromptu rally. in the end, the men were released, and the people who demanded it were met with applause. as a result of the incident, the police opened two criminal proceedings for a gross violation of public order and for public calls

for the seizure of buildings. we are currently still establishing all the circumstances of these events. i want to emphasize that i want to open two criminal proceedings, or rather two. articles of the criminal code, but the group policemen continue to work in kovol, establish all the details, establish all the participants of the incident who were near the premises of the tsk tsp, establish all those who wrote in messengers and social networks, because we need to see a more complete, more objective picture in order to talk about it later , a subjective picture, in order to talk about it in more detail later. the regional tcc says that this is not the end of the story. men are obliged to complete passing the military medical commission, otherwise they will receive a fine, based on the conclusions of the vlk it will depend on what will happen to them next, if the military medical commission recognizes them as fit for service, then it is quite likely that they can be mobilized. bohdan logunov, iryna ostrovska, radio svoboda.

yevhen philipets, a lawyer in the field of military justice, joins our broadcast. mr. yevgeny, congratulations, thank you for joining. good morning. i have the first question for you, before we... analyze the legislative norms, and what is your impression of this story in kovel, well , roughly speaking, whose side is the law on? well here in fact, there is not much positive, and it is still necessary to look through the prism of the emotions that happened there, and it is very strange why it happened like that, because it is strange, it is relative, because here it is necessary to divide the issue sectorally into small problematic moments, which we are talking about enough already. for a long time and i believe that they should be voiced now, that is, the primary component is the communication component, people should know what awaits them, what their responsibilities are and what they should do when meeting with tcc tsp on the street, as with representatives states, that is, there should be a certain limit, a certain respect for

the state authorities, but on the other hand , the employees of the tsk tsp must also be familiar with the norms of the current legislation and not cross this limit, therefore the first sectoral moment is actually when it is possible to deliver this... this person to tcc tsp. i read very carefully the post of the volyn regional tsk on facebook. actually i will say that nice, correct and very competently worded post, clearly defined. on what grounds were they taken to the tcc? delivered because they did not have military registration documents. so, in fact, today there are five legal grounds for taking people to tcc. i note that only a law enforcement agency, i.e. the national police in this case, can deliver. and there are only five cases: first, if a person has committed an administrative offense, well, it is necessary to understand the internal situation. it is obvious that there is not the wrong case. if a person is wanted, if a person does not have a military registration document, this is their case. if the person in the paper copy of the document has different information from electronic database, and if a person refuses

to serve a summons, these five literal arguments need to be explained to people, that such a consequence as delivery to the tcc tsc can be applied to them. i will clarify one more point, because in this story there were no policemen at the checkpoint, and as we were told, because i was communicating, we showed fragments of an interview with a representative of the police and the tsc, that is, the tsc offered. these three men were allowed to drive, and those men were driving their car, they agreed, they were driving their car in accompanied by tsc, that is, there is already a violation here? this, by the way, this, by the way, is not a violation, if they personally volunteered and went, if no force was applied to them, they were forcibly delivered there by the famous ocy busiks, as they call us in the people, but according to the current legislation, delivery, ocy forced delivery, carried out by the hands of the national police only, we have a very... common practice when people receive these summonses on the roads, where after 15-20 minutes they have to appear at the tsp shopping center, and people

drive by in their own cars, of course , they fulfill the norm, which is defined here in the story itself, regarding the arrival of tsc tsc. here , if the global one is a little different, and the problem is what, what if such a negative episode, is that after getting there for such and such a drive of the tcc tsp, it will end in mobilization, so actually, but it could be different in this case if we see that there are such undermined public sentiments, some kind of emotional swings, incomprehensible, this is all that the volyn tsc mentions in the post, then such persons could simply be handed over to them subpoena, to clarify the data, for example, for some period of time, they would appear, and if they did not appear, apply to them exactly this procedure, which is defined by law, apply to the national police, search, deliver, bring to the administrative responsibility, i.e. to lower a little of this heat that happened around this situation, this is the first fragment, the second fragment in this video of yours. and in general, when i was preparing for the broadcast, i monitored this situation of this episode a lot, i often saw

the word lawyer is mentioned, and realistically today , from the existing practice, i see that people in such situations rush only to lawyers, that is, they actually seek their protection there, i strongly emphasize that today this block, this segment, is not at all developed in our country, that is , advocacy in the field of military justice, it does not have any rights, it does not have any guarantees, it does not have any security. that's why we should talk about it. believe me, if there was a lawyer who was empowered to defend a person, for example, in in the field of military justice, who would have dealt with the situation in 5 minutes, gone out into the street and explained to people what was the matter, this would not have happened. and that is why today we must talk about the construction of the architecture of military justice in the form of, including lawyers, who should be reserve officers there in the field of military justice, who understand the mechanics of mobilization, who understand the mechanics of this military legislation itself, and it would literally fall apart in no time 'yeah minutes with the involvement of such a lawyer, with the involvement of a lawyer from the tsc, as i understand correctly,

this is a person who works, or who i am now, i am now talking exclusively about people, exclusively about the involvement of such a lawyer on the part of those people who were brought to the tsc, because today, what we see, such lawyers or they stand at the gate, waiting there at the checkpoint, roughly speaking, for such a client, or they try some way to get into this tsc, there creating unknown things that will disgrace both themselves and themselves. even with this and everyone around, you understand, that is, the powers of a lawyer in this regard are currently very limited, so we must speak realistically, well, i, for example, supporter, that it should be a certain institution in the field of military justice, if we are talking about building it, then it is a military bar, which would actually have to provide legal assistance to these people in such situations, and there would be no such rallies, no such emotions, everything was sorted out in a nutshell, if there are actually grounds for delivery to tsc, for mobilization, no grounds for postponement, okay. if there are grounds for postponement, we draw up the documents, pass the vlk, get a three-month postponement for

the duration of the presidential decree on mobilization, and all are happy yevgeny, what should happen for this to work, changes to the legislation should take place or something? well, what is the least for today, if there is a danger for military advocacy in the sense that a male lawyer can be mobilized together with his client in the premises of the tsk tsp. therefore, in fact , this is the smallest argument, which... should ensure a certain equality in provision in the connection between the state and the person, that is , in order to ensure this equality , certain preferences should be given there in the form of some kind of temporary or reservation or there may be a transitional period for such a lawyer after signing the order with such a client, so that he can carry out his activities there. moreover, lawyers should have access to the so -called electronic document management system in order to carry out adequate correspondence, not that you send a lawyer's request, which then has to wait 2-3 months for it to go only one way, and i'm not saying that you will get an answer, that is, there are

a lot of nuances, if you talk about it in detail talking is a subject, but it is an interesting moment, because later on on the air we will actually talk about the initiative in the verkhovna rada. as for booking, there are no lawyers on the list, we will talk about it with the people's deputy. yevgeny, i want to clarify with you about vlk. again, this is the situation in kovel. the men were brought with their consent, as the tsk representatives say, they themselves came under escort and they arrived, clarified the documents, and then they went to the vlk, that is, immediately. as they are, if men were to go to these meetings, they would probably be successful would pass this vlk. actually, because it happens very quickly, it all happens. but what are these terms of the vlk according to the law. if a conscript, who was taken to the shopping center to clarify his data, is told to immediately undergo a vlk, can he refuse, is this date scheduled for the next day, for example, and how long should this vlk last, last an hour, two hours, a day , a week, to date this issue has been settled only within the following correct limits, after arriving at

the tsc tsp, the person is sent, directed to pass the vlc, such a referral is carried out according to the administrative document, respectively: the head of the tcc of the tsp, i.e., the corresponding referral issued to the person. a person begins to undergo tsvlk in a health care institution, which actually has this connection with tcc tsp. accordingly, there, at the district level, in the nearest district polyclinic, exactly this examination of conscripts is carried out. this review of the conscript, it is not limited by the smallest period of time, because all current legislation does not determine, but such a format actually gives the opportunity in the presence. there are additional diseases, the person should be sent for certain examinations, well , it is clear that at the district level it is impossible to find out whether there are any global diseases, therefore, the person is sent for additional examinations, and actually due to this additional examination, objective findings are then made all the circumstances, so in fact today i see people from my practice who have certain diseases, they get these additional examinations and they pass these additional examinations within two weeks, after that

they return with these documents and accordingly, they go through the vlk, maybe the situation here is... the same, because for me it is a little strange how it stopped in the vlk and they sent them home in the middle of the vlk. i think that, most likely, it has something to do with the fact that they were sent somewhere for further examination. and the second point regarding the failure to pass the fork, you remember that in may there was an initiative to prosecute a person for failure to pass the vlk, i.e. refusal of a medical examination, i.e. it was proposed to make changes to 336, if i do not i'm wrong, the criminal code, where there is talk of evasion of mobilization, it actually did not happen under such conditions, that is, such changes in the law did not take place, and today we have an algorithm under which refusal to pass the vlk, it is actually fine, this is an administrative offense defined by 210 or 210 with mark one of the code of ukraine on administrative offenses, and yevgeny, finalizing it here, there are these two aspects and different types of comments, but essentially two bright positions, one position, and this is really

people complain a lot about the work of tsc, and in the comments, they are now writing to us under the broadcast that this is not the hand of moscow, it is... and the tsc lead to the fact that people distrust that people go to rallies and defend their rights as best they can. the other side is people who are even stopped by their not updated data, but they go, update, they understand that according to the law they can be mobilized, and they are mobilized, someone has the opportunity and has a certain plan, calls lawyers , a rally is being held there, or with the help of lawyers, he is trying to postpone this whole story, well, even this the demonstration moment of the vlk was interrupted, it is not known whether the men came to the vlk, whether they will come and what will happen... in general, that is, there is also such a moment, perhaps injustice, you, as a lawyer who deals with such cases, how do you look at it on this particular situation, i have a very simple view, there are around me, believe me, there in the city of lviv there is a significant number of clients with whom i work, i will tell you that i have never been to the tcc for similar situations, not once , why, because at the first call and i

i see my colleagues in lviv, lawyers are also raising the bar, good day, save us there, save us there, we were captured there and so on, my question... is very simple: is there a right to postponement or not? if there is no right to postponement, the second question is healthy or sick? if healthy, what kind of legal protection can we talk about at this stage, if we are talking about a healthy person who has a constitutional duty to protect the homeland, and he must carry out his own performance of this military duty, if the person has the right on adjournment, and her the rights are grossly violated in this case, if the person is really sick there or with oncology of the appropriate stage or some acute progress. the disease at this very second, or he is simply going home from the hospital and on the way, then we can talk about providing legal aid and, within the limits of the current legislation , look for a solution to this situation, the situation with these guys... for sure, what was this, about which i said in the first episode, they are healthy, they are of mobilization age, they do not have the right to deferment, it just happened that way, and i feel a little

i did not understand the position of the tsk tsc regarding them at the moment that they let them go, then it should have been done from the very beginning then, to release the subpoena, and not during the actual crackdown on this street, well, yes, there are still many questions, we will follow the development and that story, what will he be like, thank you yevgeny for including your... the right opinion was shared yevhen filipets, a lawyer in the field of military justice, was a guest of svoboda ranok. and i have already announced this topic, and i encourage you to also write comments and express your thoughts now. people's deputies want to allow officials, judges, among those who want to open departure, and those who have a deferment, and those who have reservations, to go abroad. at the same time, in the same draft law, the people's elected representatives propose to release military personnel who served 36 months of military service during of these three years, such military personnel must participate in the performance of combat missions for at least 18 months. during the year , these soldiers cannot be

mobilized again, only if they independently agree to it. in case of written consent to continuous service for three years, payments to such a soldier are proposed to be doubled. the bill also proposes to prohibit the transfer of military contractors without their consent to other formations or branches of the armed forces. also with this draft law... they want to normalize the reservation of employees, well, firstly, they want to prohibit the tsc, the police and courts from applying influence measures and restrictions to persons who are booked, and they also want to prohibit their mobilization during the reservation process, and secondly, they propose allow booking 100% of naboo workers, firefighters and border guards, who, i quote, directly ensure national security and defense, repulse and deter armed aggression against ukraine. half employees, i.e. 50% want to allow the booking of the national police, the state security bureau, the bureau of economic security, the state emergency service, the executive service, and the court guard. people's

deputies from european solidarity and non-factional deputy maryana bezugla registered the draft law in the council. and maryana bezugla, directly, people's deputy of ukraine, deputy chairman of the committee on matters of national security, defense and intelligence, joined our broadcast. congratulations maryana, thank you for joining. congratulations. let's start this conversation. from the fact that many people were surprised that you found yourself in the company of european solidarity deputies, someone was surprised , on the contrary, that european solidarity united with you, who suggested to whom to jointly initiate such a bill? well, i already talked about the so-called trolling, a little bit of it takes place, because we understand that when a bill is registered, it is not a vote, even in the committee, it is a compilation and... for all those political clashes that we had in the parliament, we voted for it not a month later, for example, after the working group had finished there, and it was, as far as

i remember, almost six months of one or another discussions, which i believe quite so negatively affected the prospects of mobilization and the quality of the draft law as a whole, the main one on mobilization, now they are constantly submitting new ones. position, speaking, ms. mariana, i'm just clarifying who you trolled, colleagues on the committee, your former colleagues from the servants, european solidarity, which submitted bill, look, if we talk about the essence, there are really good ideas there, which i would support, no matter how it sounds, maybe there for citizens, you know, somehow not quite acceptable, maybe regarding the right, for example, the unhindered right you. .. to people's deputies abroad, that is, we also have a different, let's say, discussion in the parliament about this, i believe that it should be, since we

should not talk about how deputies are reprimanded, well, that is, we should talk, but this is another direction about how deputies de facto use, but according to the law and according to our powers, functions and duties. we have, for example, to advocate what is happening in ukraine, to justify it with our colleagues, excuse me, with our colleagues abroad, yes, i have something, yes, mariana, but i understand, look, that people's deputies, in principle, in agreement with stefanchuk, they can go abroad for specific meetings, yes, that is, you have the head of the verkhovna rada there, you can agree to it and leave, and again, it is on the list. not only people's deputies, there are others judges, prosecutors, officials, i.e. you at this moment and for which categories it should apply then, well, i support leaving. people's

deputies, since there is such a mechanism of origin here, i never had problems with that origin, nevertheless i did not leave much, a conscious majority, i spend time here, well, in the troops, when there is an opportunity and there are no meetings, but nevertheless too much for some an opposition deputy, the question of even agreeing with the head of the parliament, that's already a story, he didn't want to... he didn't agree, that is, the mandate of the deputy and his powers according to the current legislation, they provide for free movement, and there are no restrictions on it, in particular , martial law, but at the same time the question, and which, in particular , citizens, how they use and can use this right, of course for the advocacy of obtaining additional weapons in the course of communication with parliamentarians from other countries, this is a noble and obligatory matter, but if you go on...

vacation, then it is a completely different story, also in the draft law, what is good, this, this is a question of the term of service always, i you interrupt i apologize, because we will talk about demobilization, i want to clarify more about the permission to go abroad, reserved, judges, prosecutors, people's deputies, there are many opinions on the internet, well, i saw that you are correcting there, you do not always include comments under your posts on facebook, for example, but i think that maybe you have come across such opinions, why are there castes of people, why are there castes of people, one can leave, this applies here to such specific categories as i have already named in this draft law, others cannot leave it is possible, well, that is, doesn’t this again create a certain inequality, look, ideally, as i see it, but this is my personal opinion, everyone is reserved, those who have a postponement should have the right to go abroad, but

in general in ... picture of my world, again this is a personal opinion, we should not prohibit citizens from going abroad, well, that is, it is their conscious choice to be a citizen or not, i even had a sharp position, it remains, that if you do not you want, if you are already abroad and are not even able to update given, i am not saying to return to the country and protect it and help there, then you are a big question, are you even a citizen of ukraine, it would be better to even have... a simple and easy mechanism to refuse and recruit those people who are interested in the future of ukraine and to support them, but this is already such a philosophical category, we have not worked out such mechanisms, nevertheless i noted, that is, it was connected with the fact that when those who were abroad were told to update the data, and the legislative framework was worked out, and it was about updating the data itself, it's not it was about the fact that it is necessary

to return and join the ranks of the armed forces, it's just... even this is an elementary update, therefore, regarding a broader list of those or other, well, individual authorized to perform the functions of the state there, etc., well, this is such a question, considering that there is no provision for expansion and no provision for the opening of borders for all citizens, then i would not support it, that is, if this bill were even considered, i would probably submit amendments to narrow it... and this does not create conditions for non-return certain people to ukraine, they they have armor there, for example, whether under this law judges there, for example, will be able to leave, not to swim a thousand miles and leave legally, and especially if the official or judge conditionally has, as they say, a feathery inscription there, and he can leave in this way and not return, look, we have a large number of citizens leaving all the time by various routes, and at the same time a large number of reserved citizens, and... accordingly, er,