without ukraine. today in the verdict program with serhii rudenko. legal right to protection. ukraine's international allies do not object to the transfer of ground hostilities to the territory of the aggressor country. how the successes of the kurdish operation can affect kyiv's negotiating positions. zelenskyi's peace plan. in the president's office. confirmed that at the second global summit they hope to present the peace formula to the representative of russia. why did lukashenko talk about the possible consequences of the collapse of the empire? kamala harris is gaining momentum. polls show a growing lead candidate from the democrats over the opponent from the republican party. how does the ukrainian government build relations with both candidates? glory

to ukraine, this is the verdict program. my name is serhii rudenko, i greet everyone and wish everyone good health. in the next two hours, we will talk about ukraine, the world , and our victory. well, of course, let's talk about the events taking place in kurshchyna, as well as how the united states of america is preparing to elect a new president. kamala garis and donald trump of the united states of america are applying for this position, well of course we will mention orban, about china, about dmitry kuleba's tour of africa, all this will be in the first part of our program, we will discuss the topics of international politics with the diplomat and politician valery chaly. in the second part of our program, which will start in exactly one hour, we will have a journalism club. with my colleagues larisa

voloshyna and andrii yanitsky. however, before starting our big broadcast and our big conversation, i suggest you watch the video of how tonight ukrainian drones attacked the military airfield in russian lipetsk, a warehouse with guided aerial bombs and a number of other facilities in the letovysh area were targeted, several fires broke out there, the detonation continued until the morning. the results of the defeat are being clarified, let's see how it all went, knock it down.

of ukraine and death to the russian occupiers. friends, we conduct polls throughout our broadcast. today we ask you about the following: do you think ukrainian diplomacy is effective? yes, no, please vote for us on youtube, or with the yes or no button, write your own opinion under this video in comments, if you watch us on tv, call us on the phone. if you think ukrainian diplomacy is effective at the current stage 0800 211. 381 no 0800 211

382 all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of our voting, and we should be in touch with valery chaly, valery chaly, diplomat, former ambassador of ukraine to the united states of america, chairman of the board of the ukrainian crisis media center, mr. valery, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today, i congratulate you, glory to ukraine. glory to the heroes. mr. valery, let's start our conversation with the course breakthrough of the ukrainian army, we can already speak of the ukrainian army, because literally today a video appeared where fighters of the armed forces of ukraine say that the city of suja, kurdish region is under the control of ukrainian troops, video from soldiers of the 99th mechanized battalion of the 61st separate mechanized steppe. brigades,

they claim that they control the strategic object of gazprom, they mean the gas distribution station, which is located in suja, let's watch this video, health, from the city sudja. our news is as follows, the city is controlled by the armed forces of ukraine, there is peace, all houses, all cities, targets, the strategic facility of gazprom in the city of sudja, is controlled by the 99th mechanized battalion of the 61st separate steppe brigade, peace to all, glory to ukraine, mr. valery, let's talk about the reaction... in the west from our western partners, apparently the russians expected that they would now begin to pump the western information space and talk about the bloody hunta that invaded the territory there, according to the traditional scheme of the russian federation, how did you

observe this reaction, what can you say, what is the reaction of our western partners and whether this reaction is one of the steps... to the adoption of a decision on granting the right of the ukrainian state to strike with western weapons on the territory of the russian federation deep into the russian federation? well, to begin with, there are a few basic things: firstly, ukraine has the right to self-defense, according to article 51 of the un charter, and the very fact of russian aggression allows ukraine to respond by force, armed with defense, that is to say. means it is possible to carry out operations, military operations, on the territory of the aggressor or on the ground, on water, in the air, that is, the second weapon that is transferred to ukraine, it is ukrainian weapon, even what you call us, give the right, no one gives anyone any right , these are

gentlemen's agreements, in fact, so political, from a legal point of view, all the weapons that are bought or transferred to ukraine are... ukrainian, and there is no need to ask for the right to use them, the only thing is that partners sometimes stipulate when supplying weapons , these are nuances in the political plan they condition, no more than that, ukraine is a member of all regimes of control, export control, regime of control of missile technologies, that is, therefore, from the point of view of international law, we should ask absolutely no one, well, but politically... we have such agreements , when we sometimes receive some weapons, as with the americans, for example, there, well, what they call long-range, in fact, it is a replacement for our tactical weapons, which here, well, no more than 300

km, 500, we already had and still have such weapons, that is , not to talk about long-range here it happens, but there were such agreements, that is why ukraine has the full right... to this defense and to self-defense, in this context all the comments were mainly made, and on this right on the territory of the adversary, the aggressor, it is important here that russia is the aggressor , that is, it is important that ukraine cannot be called, if there were not out of their pants, russian propagandists, such as antonov, the ambassador in washington, began to tell that... how is it that the americans do not criticize, well, if you are an ambassador, if you're already a general under sanctions, but you'll get over it the ambassador is following you, although he adheres to some of the rules, moreover, the fact that he called the ukrainians thugs, this despite the fact that there are criminal crimes of the russian armed forces, which

have been confirmed, well , they simply cut out the heads of ukrainians from the corpses, that is, i just... . this cynicism, it is already so extreme, and there you can no longer distinguish where the diplomat is, where the criminal, that is, they are all already smeared with one, well, it is emotional, in relation to the essence, then no one can answer him, except for what the official washington said , it won't be any other way, it's all in within the framework, absolutely within the framework of international law, and the reason for all this was russia's aggression, the reason for this was the occupation of russia, the only thing... here is interesting in this whole situation, when russia entered the sumy region, with columns of tanks, then they border did not notice interstate, ukrainian-russian, until suddenly they noticed that there is a state border , it turns out, that is, this is an interesting observation,

that is, i think that it will have consequences, because they may notice that there is a border that goes from the donetsk region on the border with russia and... there in luhansk, such a time will come, such a time will come, so in principle the international reaction is adequate, it is about this, this part, well... in the future there is a reaction about the weakness of the racist regime, about the weakness of putin, confusion, lies , uncoordinated evaluations, that is , it is interesting that despite such conversations for months, and even more than six months, that everything is already going in one direction, all the layers in this are in one pocket, ukraine seems to be losing, russia is all the same will win "let's somehow push ukraine to give up its territories,

capitulates in exchange for peace, as they say, in fact, simply to stop further occupation, well, now this scheme is collapsing, it turns out that not everything is over yet, so this situation will have a lot of consequences, including in relation to these of all plans for peace without ukraine, and..." will even have consequences in ukrainian society itself, because in a total war motivation is also important, although i would caution against some kind of euphoria, i see that there are such calls here, let's go to moscow, is the kursk nuclear power plant ours, i think this is unnecessary, because it is already more or less clear where the situation is going, the main thing is that this uh... defense operation, this same anti-military operation, should be successfully completed, and

that further steps should be as effective, not spectacular, as it was before, you remember, there we are planning to break through there, we told everyone there, here i like the most that it is being done in a very correct style, few people know what is happening, but we are getting and god bless. some positive news, by the way, this silence mode you speak of, what this special operation is carried out in such a good atmosphere, a secret atmosphere, when they do not announce a special operation in the kursk region for three or four months, so what about this silence, as it turned out and as the spokesman for the state department of the united states of america, matthew miller, says that ... the united states of america did not receive any warnings from ukraine about any operations in the kursk region

of russia, let's hear what matthew miller said. ukraine does not inform us about its exact tactics before its implementation. there is no in this nothing unusual. this is the war they are waging. we give them the tools and we advise them, but when it comes to the daily tactics, when it comes to the daily shots, sometimes we talk to them, sometimes we don't. and it is appropriate for them themselves... well, the spokesman of the european commission, peter stano, commenting on the events in the kursk region, stated that ukraine, according to international law, has a legal right to defend itself, including striking an aggressor on its territory, like you, mr. valery, how do you evaluate the reaction of moscow, putin, gerasimov, all of this power block that was assembled putin, to what extent. for them, this is an unusual special operation, which is being conducted against them, because

all international agencies, all world media write about the fact that not a single soldier of a foreign state set foot on the territory of the russian federation from the beginning or the end of the second world war, and this foot of a foreign soldier became ukrainian, well... if it is history, then it is not completely accurate, because the chinese foot stepped there at one time, but nevertheless, i think that everyone saw anger, confusion, and such a very sour face of putin, so that when he received the report his own, and irasim the commander, and everyone saw it, that. this is a facial expression that cannot be hidden somewhere, i think that with gerasimov,

it is probably all, and it is only now that most of all these failures will hang on him, and i think that we will not see immediately, but after a while there will be changes , that someone should be responsible for this, and this is a very serious failure, which from putin's point of view hits him personally, well... that's right, it hits the tsar completely, those same people are appealing, tsar protect , well, the king turned out to be not quite what they thought, though actually. and the corruption here is huge, they allocated 15 billion rubles for the three lines of defense, it turned out that these went into the pockets, these billions into the pockets of the generals and others, well, the fear itself, you can see it, yes, it is visible on the face, fear, because it is 500 km to moscow, the wagnerites were already there at that time,

they bypassed rostov, they entered the million-strong city and simply occupied it, the same thing... this is the same story, that is, people are actually there in these cities, they also either ran or even someone was waiting for the ukrainians, so they are great understand what this is, that this is a different situation in the war, moreover, i will tell you, uh, there was a very strange story before this, uh, it's no secret that in such cases, when the russians admitted about plans, such... various operations, they immediately ran to washington to call, they called washington to stop kyiv, don't give them weapons, well, washington has the leverage of course, providing weapons, providing financial support, and that's what happened in the last month that the situation, and i claim the situation

has changed, it is not just the statements that you have heard in the end, the situation changed radically. i don't want to go into the details of why, let everyone analyze what happened over the last month, but we have, in principle, a window of opportunity to act more actively, more actively. i don't know how long it will be, but for today it is. therefore, everything that is not prohibited by international law, international humanitarian law, is now allowed. and then , of course, it would be necessary to insist that our partners reassess the situation and see that the actions of the ukrainians are effective, if they really are it will be confirmed, after all, there is no such official statement, these effective actions also require effective support with weapons, including

long-range weapons, well, i said that there is no such thing at all about it yet, i am talking about tamahawk missiles. how, which are planned to be placed in germany, not in ukraine, for some reason, but this is tomorrow, and today taurus, the german taurus missile, i have a question, if the germans expect an american tamahawk, which is 200 km away, then what, in principle, is the explanation, in why the escalation if the germans will give us a taurus, that is, less distances that will be greater here in the tactical, operational-tactical theater of the military. actions, that is, it is logical, i generally see that there are fewer and fewer arguments why not to do it, recently the leader of the socialists, social democrats of germany said that look, not the leader, but one of them said that ukraine is not very active , is not very effective, so why continue to give weapons, well

, please, let us, mr. valery, one more question in connection with what is happening at... this is the suja gas distribution station, it was still working in soviet times and controlled the entry of natural gas, russian gas on the territory of ukraine, which then exited there in uzhhorod, and there is also such a station there, and now, in connection with the events in kurshchyna, russian gazprom says that it continues to supply gas to europe through the station suja, but the transit flow through ukraine decreased by 12... well, that is, after all , these transit routes that existed before the great war, they continue to be used by russian gazprom, but on the other hand, we do not hear concerns from european consumers, because, well if hostilities near gas distribution station and this path exists and

hostilities are taking place there, why european consumers or leaders of european countries. they don't say anything about it now, well, because they know the situation very well, if we talk about the first emotional reaction, then there was a certain price, even such a small increase in gas on the market, but they understand perfectly well, well, let me explain it to you this way, and you heard at least once that the russians bombed a gas pipeline there. just a meter, well more than a meter, these are the strategic gas pipelines, or we for example, it was blown up, you heard about it during the war, there was no such thing, so transit... well , you know, it's such a story. transit is transit, i personally, and not only me, and many experts from this energy sector believe that we need to end this

story, and i understand that the government has decided to stop all these transits by the end of the year, because we have there, the profit from the ball is a nose, that is, a nose, and the russians have 2 billion on this, that is why they finance their army, and here, if you calculate... what will we get for this transit is generally a trifle, and those countries that receive it, they would have had enough time already, what brussels, the european commission is telling them about, offering alternative sources, for some reason they do not want an alternative, slovakia, hungary, why they do not want an alternative, it's not the case that they've been closed there and they're wintering and they're cold, nothing like that, they're offering them, don't take it from russia, well, we say, well, our government has invented such a story, and we'll do it like that... let's do it the european union buys on the border with russia, and it is no longer ours gas, let it be sorted out, but it transits through us, we need to end all these games

and barriers, just stop this story, pay the russians for all this, that is, i think the time has come for this, regarding the capture of the point there, well, i will tell you, this is good news, but well, this is a kind of story, because the same one of ours. on one side there is a tap, which is called, well, yes, i asked, actually, which enters on one part and leaves on the other, and we have gas storage facilities in western ukraine, or in the west of ukraine. mr. valeriu, on the eve of these kurdish events, serhiy shoigu complained that ukraine did not respond to the dictator's ultimate demands, meaning the capitulation plan announced by putin regarding the four regions, exit. the armed forces of ukraine of these four regions, and regarding the conditions, as shoigu says, for the start of peace talks, which were announced by putin in mid-june.

let's listen to what shaigu said. since then , almost two months have passed, there is no reaction. i am not talking about all these geneva formulas of zelenskyi and others, because it makes no sense to talk about it, because... negotiations without the main negotiator, it somehow doesn't look very clear, that is, this is shoigu's reaction to the future of the second peace summit, and yesterday andriy yermak, in an interview with european pravda, said that a representative of russia could participate in the second peace summit, to whom a plan from implementation of the 10 points of zelenskyi's peace formula, let's listen to yarmak, what will he say... it is possible for a representative of russia to participate in

the second summit, to whom this plan can be handed over, such a possibility exists, this does not mean that one should not treat the second summit, that the second summit - it will be some the beginning of changes from no, that's not what we're talking about. the meeting at which this plan can be presented was not held between ukraine and russia, it was held in the presence of all those responsible countries that are on this path with us, that supported our plan, and that are at the table. mr. valery, is it necessary for the representative of russia to sit at the table of the second peace summit, given the position of shaigu and putin. er, or just to him, they just need to send these 10 points of zelenskyi's formula by e-mail? well, the first part, the ukrainian government, and its leader

andriy yermak should, well, president zelenskyy, they should, let's say, act as they are now, they are responsible, personally, responsible for establishing peace, and for the situation in the war and inside. country, that is, that is why i don't want to talk about their path, as far as that is concerned, they will go their own way, and the only thing we have to do is to help the victory of ukraine, to help a just peace and to do everything so that we avoided mistakes, but in this sense i will say that it is clear that the first peace summit. ended up with nothing from the point of view of that the establishment of a truce or the establishment of a long-term peace there, there

were diplomatic successes. diplomatically gathered the countries, it is very good, but it is not about, not about zelensky’s peace formula, let’s say, there is the de-occupation of all territories, the border of 1991, that is, it was not discussed there, and what is the second peace summit, from the point of view of diplomatic holding such big events, i understand, it is also useful, but from the point of view, as you rightly said, the mechanism of work... on ending the war there or defending your positions, it is very doubtful, because some kind of explanation must be given publicly, on the other hand, they said that there would be a formula, like the grain formula, that there separately from turkey was a mediator with un observation, he is the secretary of the un, that there are two separate processes and we won't sit at one table, i don't know

any two. scenarios, i can make a prediction, this scenario with a peace summit, with this handover, will not end in anything, if even such a scenario is invented, because, well, obviously russia does not want this, and it must be forced to peace, but with from another point of view, i generally think that this is a very strange story that is heard all the time in ukraine, will put russia with... at the same table, i don't understand, and if putin comes to this table, what will you do then? you have a decree that it is not possible to negotiate with putin, and he is actually a war criminal, that is, on the one hand, we are appealing to mexico to arrest him there, so that if he comes there, he will be arrested, and on the other hand we really ask for a russian representative, and which representative, which representative lavrov, on whom there is no place

to put a seal, who confirmed... the bombing of the mariupol maternity hospital and the killing of our people from a high platform, confirmed antonov, who calls us thugs, himself covers the thugs with real criminal cases, shaiga, what a criminal, who is now and hirasina, by the way, is also a criminal, look, as they answered, they hit civilians in kramatorsk, these are crimes from the point of view of humanitarian law, who, who... who will sit on the side of russia at this table, and again , and russia admitted that ukraine not only has the right to sovereignty, territorial integrity, that ukraine is a full-fledged country, that it conducts negotiations as equals, putin admitted that ukraine can exist, he also said, ukraine will not exist, we will destroy ukraine, it does not exist, there is no such country, i'm sorry, let's first let them

say in moscow... that ukraine is a sovereign country, they will apologize for all these slanders about nazism, admit all these, first they will say publicly who lied all this, and then you can talk to them about something, and before that, how will it be to look, well, the reality of politics, let's take the reality of politics, there were such stories, although in our country the war is existential, for survival, either ukraine will survive, or russia, there is no third way, there can simply be pauses. there for a few years, so i have a question that is so serious and big, in this sense, is there any understanding at all of the essence of the war, and if we are really exhausted to such an extent and society will be exhausted, then i do not understand this insistence at all , let's agree on something with russia, it can be different,

yes? it was in history that there could be a cessation of hostilities for a while and then some finding of some peace formulas or some geopolitical formulas, but no one recognized the occupation, no one recognized in any way, uh, that sanctions can be lifted, or, for example , these people are no longer guilty of the murders of ukrainians after that, if someone from ukraine goes this way to forget what... there was, to draw a line, come on, what's the difference, no, well, this is not the right way, so i believe that what the current head of foreign policy is declaring irmak of ukraine, er, it's more like, well, these are the maneuvers, which, well, they know why they do it, in general, i really hope, our somehow winning lines are diplomatic, which they eh...