greetings, this is saturday's political club, my name is khrystyna yatskiv, and this program cannot be imagined without vitaly portnikov, he will certainly appear in the conversation with us, already in the second part of our program. in the first part , we will talk with distinguished guests, experts about the hottest events of the last few days, and prevail, prevail, as you like, on our airwaves today. there will be a breakthrough in kursk region and certain events in bilhorod region. perhaps we are now watching the unfolding of these events. a few days ago, let me remind you, on the border of kursk and sumy oblast, a border breach occurred in the area of ​​the city of suja. and despite the active reaction to these events on the part of the russian side, we still do not see any comments from the ukrainian leadership and from the ukrainian military, which is probably now and absolutely...

not necessary, there are no clear maps, there is no specific clear understanding , in which operational zone all these events are taking place, all we know is that events are actually taking place in interesting areas, also from the energy point of view, we are talking about gazprom facilities, some of which are already are under the control of the defense forces of ukraine, and we are also talking about ... the kursk nuclear power plant, to which the russians are now drawing reinforcements for the defense of this facility, obviously playing it safe, and one way or another we have a precedent, actually since 1944, this is the first time that the russian federation can declare that representatives are located on its territory. troops of another country, it is very

interesting to watch how recently released russian liberals comment on this story, we will definitely talk about it, as putin's godmother, if i'm not mistaken, ksenia sobchak, who also considers herself a journalist of her time and a russian liberal, comments on this story, and that's how the meetings for help are taking place. attention to the residents of the kursk region who suffered, this is now a quote, due to the actions of the armed forces of ukraine. can you imagine the trouble in the kursk region because of the armed forces. which is absolutely not true. the trouble in the kursk region is due to putin, who started an aggressive war against our country, everything else is exclusively the consequences of his decision and the decision of the russian people to have such a ruler. on communications and studio oleksiy hetman, reserve major of the national guard of ukraine, russian-ukrainian veteran. war, mr. oleksiy, i

congratulate you, glory to ukraine, glory to the heroes, good evening, we will be extremely careful, in the end, and we do not have any conscious information, clear information for analysis, but we understand that this week the line of battle of the defense forces ukraine with the russian army has changed somewhat, it has become longer, it has become larger, if we say, how it has... changed the general picture of military operations in this war, what would you say, please, well, it is starting to change the general course of hostilities, because we will now see what is happening with the russian army, how they will redeploy forces, how they will raise reserves, well, a lot will change, it has been four days since the sixth, and so far well, to analyze and say how it will change, one can only assume certain things, but... the fact that it will change is

obviously what will have the greatest influence on the changes, is it military actions, or is it even a political component, an informational component, well and so on, we remember that war is not ceased to be hybrid, and it consists of informational, political, economic, and everything that is media, which falls under the name hybrid war, it is very successfully a raid, well, not a raid, it is not possible to use such a word. this is a very successful counterattack by our troops, and i am sure that soon we will begin to feel the results of these actions directly in other areas of the front. it is unlikely that anything will change significantly in the pokrovsky, chisyurovsky, and terei directions, because the so-called south of russia group is conducting combat operations there. and this, and where the fighting is currently taking place in kurshchyna, this is the north of the group. and they

communicate with each other, but do not exchange forces and means, well, at least so far this has not happened, so it is believed that they will begin to withdraw troops from pokrovsk. direction , hardly from klupinsky-limansk, maybe from kharkiv, 100% will be transferred from the reserves from the leningrad military district , too, obviously, there may be conscripts there , we will see a lot of this event, it is very, well, it is big and such a big ball distance, we still haven't realized what happened and what might happen next, it's not , well, it's not easy at all, that's all, well, put it on the shelves, but you know, i don't know how much time we have, so we can, in we have enough time to thoroughly analyze what is happening, but again, in my opinion, we do not have official data, clear data, they are not provided to us,

there are objective reasons for this, we understand this very well , well, to analyze very colorful information from zpublics, i'm sorry, but... on the informational hygiene of ukrainians is at the highest level. mr. oleksiy, what if we go through the interesting details that have appeared and are already evident in the context of this stage of the confrontation between russia and ukraine. to be honest, i am absolutely amazed at how innovative drones are being used recently, they shoot down russian helicopters, they cause damage right in the air... our drones shoot down russian drones, and this is also, in my opinion, an interesting know-how, can we are we talking about a really new degree, a new stage of using these unmanned technologies? well, drones, they do not dominate

this war yet, but they began to have a substantial impact, they were being improved, here i don’t even see anything strange in the fact that they started with... those, well, for example, russian helicopters that fall in the zone, where this drone can work, we understand that the operator guided him, he did not independently make decisions there, and in the direct vision zone, it is tens of kilometers, well, depending on at what height, which drone, but well, we saw how komikaza drones attack, maybe we can see directly now, they are attacking targets that are on the ground, moving targets, if the target is in the air, it... does not actively maneuver, it does not gain high speed, so the drone cannot follow it, well, it cannot catch up with it, even if it is a curtain , well, as they say, it just doesn’t move or moves slowly, then intercept it with a drone, well, what’s the difference between it or an armored

car or a tank, for the operator, what’s the difference, and it depends on the operator’s specialty, how trained he is, how much he has have the experience to control the drone to direct it directly on hostile these. the same applies not only to helicopters, it applies to enemy drones, reconnaissance drones, there is no need to look for any, well, you know, we often use the words there are the latest technologies, know-how, there is artificial intelligence, well, we collect all this in heaps in order to by ourselves to raise some sense of our own importance for the fact that we are so smart, we have everything and no, these are ordinary things, let's take a look at it... it's easier to look at it, there is no such thing as sacred here, it's normal, in us they can even shoot down a creato missile from a machine gun, i am not sure that drones will be used as means of air defense, because

it is a small range, but if someone flies something or a russian drone or a russian helicopter into the field of vision, let's say a drone through... the eyes of the operator , then why not, if he does not maneuver, if he, well, does not fly quickly, he will be destroyed, but this, this should not be considered as an additional means of air defense, it is rather even more, rather, more of an exception to the rule, because if this helicopter was not very far away, then it was easier to shoot it down with a manpads, well, yes, you, ukrainian drones are already visible to belarus. lukashenka, by the way, in the context of recent events, he ordered to strengthen the grouping of troops in the gomel and mozar tactical directions, all this is the border

with kyiv and chernihiv regions. the situation when we have it with belarus. some active actions will also be taken to destabilize the plans ukrainian troops? iskanders against drones, lukashenko was so scared. seriously, such skander is against the bud, well , what is this, the matter is that this is his fear, well, you can be sure with a high probability that no actions with the territory of belarus will be carried out on us in the near future, especially land, because then we can use article 51 of the charter of the united nations on what is self-defense, and we have the right to ... any military facilities on territory of the aggressor, for this we do not need

any additional permits, well, if we and our partners agreed not to use certain types of weapons at their request, then with our own weapons, forgive us, we are guided by the articles of international law, that is, in this case , the articles of the statute of the united nations, lukashenko understands that if he leaves his territory, at least something will be done from the territory of belarus, and not only something will fly there. then immediately we will strike back, and he sees now that this strike is in answer, well, the belarusian army with all his, excuse me, ponts, lukashenko, it will be defeated very quickly, and okay, and today it also became known about the destruction of one of the so -called boyka towers in the black sea, information about these towers periodically appears , we remember how in 2023 the central intelligence agency talked about returning, no,

not even returning to our control, but about knocking out and actually knocking out russian control over some of these facilities, and today the navy reported about that they hit one of the gas towers in the black sea. spokesman dmytro pletenchuk said that there are dead occupiers, and also... some of the equipment involved in these platforms has been destroyed, what does that mean, does that make it easier for us to feel more comfortable in that part, at least black sea, let me remind you that it is also interesting to us for economic reasons, for reasons of civil shipping, including yes, well, the actions of our special operations forces, our teams that attack from the sea, that... attack coastal the territory that is attacking boyka towers, other objects on the sea, well, this, this is, this is

asymmetric actions, which we often say, in order to achieve success, the same operation on kurshchyna, the same actions, well you know, for some reason everyone believes that, well, not everyone, but many believe that the war should take place, i don't know, in the times there... of caesar's legions, that one should be built, there on the other side another and who will kill whom there are. we have told military analysts and the military leadership many times that we do not have as many forces and means as our enemy, so we have to act asymmetrically, everyone wants us to act symmetrically, if from their side 50 00 climbs there, then we also have to put 50 and we will fight lop-lop, well, we will not fight like that, these blows and chicken, we just... somehow got around it, although i think we will talk about it too, about what is happening there not from the point of view of analyzing some

telegram publics, from the point of view of what is actually happening there, there is a lot what can be interesting to talk about, that's why these actions of the towers are fierce, blows on crimean po to submarines, strikes on anti-aircraft defenses, strikes on airfields at an oil refinery, these are all our asymmetric responses, these are all... measures that give us the opportunity, at least for today, to deter a very powerful russian offensive, at least in the eastern direction and in the future, as they say, there are many analysts abroad, but not journalists, but military, because these people are more military, after all, they understand military affairs than very respectable journalists and some analysts there, which we have the prospect of intercepting even this year, the tactical initiative on the field is booming, it is very important, and what happened on the kruchenye, it will just come in. as they say, in the history textbooks, because this is a unique operation, this is a unique operation, well, mr. oleksiy, you

said that at this stage in the course operation there is a lot that can be analyzed from a purely military point of view, what about you the most, what you were most surprised, first of all, let's go, we did it, because it is a symmetrical response, what we did, we on... actions, they built a line of syrovikin, which was very difficult for us to overcome, now on the eastern front, through which they advanced. they build fortifications behind them, they understand that counterattacks are possible and that they have somewhere to defend themselves, such fortifications were not built in the kurs region, this is the first, second, there were no troops there with combat experience, there were even conscripts who immediately started to surrender, the question arises, why don't we strike at that city, where the russians

have the weakest defense, this is not a counteroffensive, it is a counterattack, it is possible even considered as elements. active defense, because defense is not only positional, it is active, i.e. mobile, maneuverable, point and so on, i.e. people in the army, they fight according to protocols and rules, and not according to some know-how or sitting around, even the harrows invent something the army must fight according to protocol and follow clear rules, and the commander's job is to use exactly those rules, exactly those tactics that are most convenient in this city, at this time, at this time of the year, and so on and so forth, taking into account the forces and means , second, what's interesting is that... with the advance on kurchen, it is quite possible to assume that we can reach the kursk nuclear power plant, then the situation with our zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant will look completely different there, and grossi and the head of magat have already talked about this certain conversations begin about what should and should not be done there, well , that is exactly what can be interesting,

look carefully at the map, you don't need to be a great strategist right away to... understand that if we move further from the course direction, for example, to the south, then we let's go to the tele, simply and the kupinsky-liman group and the pokrovsky group, so simple, ugh, mr. oleksiy, thank you, i hope that with you we will have more opportunities and reasons to analyze what is happening now, a truly historic event, no matter how cool it is, oleksiy hetman, reserve major of the national guard. ukraine, a veteran of the russian-ukrainian war, joined the saturday political club, which continues and will certainly continue with a conversation with vitaly portnikov at the end of the current hour, and before that we will have a few more conversations with distinguished guests in connection with the studio will be igor eisenberg, professor of new york university from the states and vadym polishchuk, historian, political observer. let's talk about

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a political expert who became taras berezovyts, a special agent, in a new project on espress. the real front is a thorough analysis of the main events. reports, comments of leading specialists and experts. analytics from the major of the armed forces. how to make sense of disturbing news and distinguish truth from hostile propaganda. the real front program with taras berezovets every saturday at 21:30 on espresso. the saturday political club continues, my name is khrystyna yatskiv, thank you for being with us, and we continue to talk about the devastating course of the russian-ukrainian war, current events. oblast, i emphasize once again that in the historical perspective since 1944, this is the first time that the russian federation is faced with the fact that

it has problems of a military nature directly on its territory, and not the way they like to periodically ignite, ignite military conflicts of a completely artificial nature in the territories of neighboring states, or in general states that can help it. in control of a specific region. now i will be happy to add igor eisenberg, a professor at new york university, united states of america, to the important conversation. sir igor, i congratulate you, glory to ukraine. glory to the hero, i congratulate you, ms. krystyna, i congratulate all viewers of espress. already in a few days i wonder what has changed. we understand that for quite a long time, our key partner is the united states of america. were very careful when it came to the work of the defense forces of ukraine on the territory of the russian federation, at first

this work was very veiled, so we talked about some incidents in bavovna, although we definitely understood what we were talking about. then we began to insist on what we needed to study the enemy's rear, because it is from there that they start their aggression, it is from russian... territories that their planes take off from russian territories, their convoys go and so on and so forth and had a careful taboo from the united states on at least the use of long-range weapons and weapons that can reach the locations we are interested in. now we are watching a real ground operation of the defense forces of ukraine in kursk oblast, and we are seeing a very, very, very restrained american response to... to what is happening, i will just quote a white house adviser from national security communications by john kirby, i think i'll leave room here to allow ukraine to speak one way or another about its

military operations. we keep in touch with our ukrainian colleagues, we work to better understand what they are doing, what their goals are, what their strategy is. he refuses to characterize the situation in the kursk region, explaining that it is worth waiting until washington has a better idea of ​​the events in the territory of the russian region. that is, even if we are not sure that we fully understand what is there is happening this is a game, mr. igor, that is , rhetorical figures, can you imagine a situation when this operation was planned without the agreement of a key partner? you know, i would add to what, say, the pentagon's deputy spokeswoman, sabrina sink, said. she simply approved ukraine's action and said that ukraine has every right to defend itself. including what it is doing in the kursk region, and there is no problem with using american weapons for this, and

state department spokesman matthew miller said roughly the same thing, i would say that for me it is not surprising at all, because you know, all the restrictions that the united states imposed, let's say, on supplying ukraine with this or that weapon, or on the use of this or that. they were due to what we all there call escalation, such a euphemism, because in fact, of course, in the united states, escalation means an inadequate response from russia, that is, in the form of, say, the use of nuclear weapons against ukraine, and the united states, of course, constantly wants avoid it, but i would, you know, i would mirror what... what your colleague vitaliy bortnikov likes to call a tactic of selyami on the part of russia, that is, when russia thinks that it can cut off piece by piece of ukrainian

territory from ukraine, but the west does practically the same thing, in particular the united states, constantly piece by piece, allowing ukraine to do more, sending ukraine more weapons, more types of weapons, i think that it's just the united states that they think that's what they're doing. these steps gradually, they do this, achieve this very important things, that is, that russia, it will not react inadequately, i am more than sure that this reaction of the united states to this operation of the armed forces in the kurt region, it shows that american intelligence is absolutely sure that no inadequate response, let's say, in the form of using nuclear weapons from russia, this will not be possible. mr. igor, we watched for a long time the transfer of specific weapons to ukraine, weapons that actually belong to ukraine.

well, let's assume some european country, but the manufacturer of these weapons is the united states, then this country had to ask for the permission of the united states to transfer these weapons to us. now we are watching how in germany, accordingly , the head of the security committee declares that from the moment we handed over the tanks to ukraine, even though they are german-made, they are already ukrainian tanks, they can use them as they see fit. that is , this interesting moment is happening again. in your opinion, how will this affect the general situation , even of a political nature, in the united states itself, does it already have an appropriate response in the hearts of americans, who, in addition to all that, are also voters, they need to make

the appropriate decisions in the near future. of an electoral nature this fall, in the united states, this operation of the armed forces of ukraine in the kursk region, it is very, so it is covered in the media, with details, very large details, there are many articles in the leading newspapers, and there are television reports , there are relevant comments on television, there are articles on the websites of news tv channels, and where the key word here is humiliation. putin, the humiliation of russia and the condemnation of the actions of ukraine, i.e. the americans, respectively, are perceived exactly that way. as for how this will affect the american election campaign, you know, foreign policy and generally everything that is done in the world is not traditionally the subject of a presidential election campaign in the united states, and this

election campaign, it ... well, practically it does not differ from the previous ones, that is, it will revolve around internal things around the actual protection of democracy, or against democracy, around various social issues, around economic issues, economic policy, and this is what most worries voters when they elect a new president, and... there will be no changes this year, that is, let's say, kamela garis and tim waltz, in recent days they spoke in key states for elections, they did not talk about foreign policy matters at all in their speeches, and this will be the case until the end of the election campaign, because the main thing for americans is economic policy, social policy, and since there is such a confrontation between the forces led by trump, and... with

liberal forces, it is also a question of protecting democracy, or on the contrary, not protecting democracy, if we say what is meant by trump. ugh. mr. igor, we understand that we can expect a debate between donald trump and kamala harris in the near future, perhaps we are talking about a multi-stage debate. what are your expectations from this purely pre-election event. shares, we understand that even without being official candidates from their parties, donald trump and joseph biden met at the debate, and this actually led to a drastic, drastic change in the situation, what can we expect now? debates in general, they have been conducted for the last 50 years, by the national debate commission, and trump

has given up on the debates that this commission organizes, a long time ago, that is, he said. that he will not participate in such a debate, and the debate that was held between trump and biden, and which is also proposed by the abc channel for september 10, now it will be, it may be a debate between trump and karis, and this a debate in a different format, that is, this is a debate without an audience in the room, only with moderators, hosts and debaters, and whether they will be, i'm not sure, by the way, that they will be, because trump is only one week. told him that he will not participate in any debate with harris, except for the one possible on the fox channel with the participation of the audience, on thursday he said something diametrically opposite, that he will participate in the debate on september 10, which will be hosted by the channel abc. frankly speaking, i don't expect anything that special because debates actually, well, this is such a television product.