all was a comment from john boldon, who was president trump's national security adviser, he said that there was no such conversation when he was the head of the department, and he is not aware from other sources that trump once said something like that to putin, so it is most likely you know how we have chat gpt, this artificial intelligence that sometimes hallucinates and gives very strange answers to a person, i think it's just... it was, let's say, in the style of trump, he lives in this fantasy, about elon musk and its platforms, this is also an interesting separate topic, since by and large this one a person bought twitter, an extremely popular western platform, not in order to make money, in fact, in order to promote the agenda, political and in particular the coming to power of donald trump, or well, it was not known before whether donald trump would withstand the pressure. maybe it was a landing party, there

are a few more of the same nikkigeli, that is, in principle, he has a hidden hidden agenda, he is together with peter thiel, another famous billionaire and technology leader, they are promoting their rather specific, well, let's say, it goes, their specific ideas, they need people like trump events, who will implement, because they understand that they themselves are not able to ... come to the white house, that there was this stream of consciousness from both sides, where there is no criticality, you know, well you are a professional journalist, you understand that no person, if he does not have an education, if he does not understand how journalism works, can conduct a high-quality interview, because, for example, there will be no fact-checking, i.e. checking whether it is fiction or a lie , is it true, then it's conducting the interview itself. that is, for

asking questions, then everything is mannered, because of course there is, for example, a hard talk with the one with the saker, where he asks rather uncomfortable questions to his interlocutors in order to reveal the interlocutor, and what happened between trump and musk, it was like , you know, a very childish, childish question and musk's praise of trump, it's definitely not journalism, it's propaganda, why... trump says so, i think the answer is that he to his team of pr and strategists took those who were with him in the 16th year, and actually key, key the thesis of these people, let trump be himself, precisely because of this stream of consciousness, and he will attract, and he will attract to himself those people who, well, that is, they are white, there is a demand for such, so trump offers, thank you, thank you. mr.

oleksandr for joining the saturday political club. oleksandr khara, diplomat, expert of the center for defense strategies on foreign and security policy issues. well, now ihor simivolos, director of the middle eastern studies center, is in touch with the studio. mr. igor, i congratulate you, glory to ukraine. congratulations, congratulations to you, your viewers, to the heroes glory. huh, already in a few weeks the world is watching and waiting for iran's so-called response to what happened. in tehran a few weeks ago, namely the liquidation of hamas leaders, and these are actually very vivid events that have certain consequences, but only iran has so far refrained from strikes by israel, what is iran's balanced approach to the situation now? well, i think the key, key situation that is affecting now. on tehran's behavior is

the negotiations that are taking place regarding the cessation war in gaza, and i think that iran is giving a chance, of course not useless, giving a chance for these negotiations to take place, they understand very well, at least a large part and the new presidential team in tehran understand that the strike now on israel gives... a chance for netanyahu to jump off off the hook and once again return to a tough policy in relation to the palestinian issue, so now, well, if the stars aligned that the americans need this agreement, they really need it, and the iranians keep israel in a state of constant tension and...

according to the same israeli experts, most likely, israel cannot, will not be able to fend off the blow of an iranian attack without american help, that is... in other words , now a lot of factors have coincided, and apparently pezeshkiyan, his team, maybe even alikh menei, as the supreme leader, have decided to wait, and in that sense, as i said, it's not being done gratuitously, but it 's being done with the hint that iran and the united states of america could then start negotiations that... settlement and sanctions relief, so i think the iranians , well, at least about that hint if we talk about the negotiations that are taking place in qatar, then the president of the united states, joseph biden, warns

all parties against the disruption of these negotiations. what are the contacts based on now and what are each of the parties insisting on now? well , it is not known for sure, because the israeli position is not fully understood either, because as far as i know, there are differences between the position of hamas and the position of israel, and israel is now trying to promote a more bilgerian position, instead, hamas demands that the parties base svudu on previous agreements that took place at the beginning of the summer. so, um, it turns out that the main intrigue is around this, and here the americans can play a key role, forcing both sides to accept this agreement, which will obviously not be to the liking of either israel or hamas. well, in the

meantime, palestinian leaders are looking for support where they can afford to look for it, and palestinian president mahmoud abbas has gone. in moscow, it was quite interesting to watch this meeting, at least in the context of its coverage, in the russian mass media information, how a crazy victory for the russian leader was presented, for example, by the telegraph agency of the soviet union, this meeting with mahmoud abbas, interesting, interesting, but let's look a little from the other side, what is the palestinian leader looking for now in the russian federation? well, obviously he's looking. for support , he is ready to turn to anyone, because now is indeed a very important moment for the future of the palestinian state, that is, while all the actors are warmed up, while this issue is on the agenda, while

they are talking about it, otherwise we have to forge iron , while i, as they said, the gorbachev reconstruction, that is, in this case, i think... that for the palestinians , the key is not to do everything so that the palestinian issue is not muddled after the gas agreement, on the contrary, it was postponed to a wider discussion and included it is on the agenda and possibly the next us administration and other key players. that's why they actually make these visits, trying to get the support of everyone, everyone they can attract, well, they want to attract not only russia, but also turkey, recep tayyip erdoğan, china, the united states

of america, if they are ready to join, that is , in fact, the palestinians largely do not care who joins in solving their issue, the more countries. willing or determined to resolve the middle east conflict, the better for the palestinians. well, in general, do you now see any reasonable way out of the situation in which the parties have driven themselves, in fact, as israel, we understand, cannot retreat from its chosen path, so palestine can hardly insist on something else now. what different from what they usually declare, can the end of this war be as fast as it actually started? well, i would rather talk about the conflict, because in principle, even if we look at this

war, the war with hamas, it is just an element of the conflict that has been going on for more than 100 years, they are different, different. aspects, different possibilities of the parties, and it is clear that a lot will depend on what government will be in israel, so far... the existing government is not ready for any serious concessions, even more, they are not even ready to hear about the creation of a palestinian state, they essentially canceled the decision on the two state solution, and well , at least most of the government members actively opposed the oslo agreements all the time, and it is practical to expect changes. it is impossible, but, as i said, the situation is heated and there are too many

risks to leave it in the form that does not exist, and it is clear that the pressure will increase, yes, that is, as soon as the situation in the gas starts to unravel, it will become obvious the question is broader, that is, to palestinian the state was created, the conditions under which it will be created, the circumstances. which will contribute to its creation and the security of israel, i think that all this will be discussed, but it is unlikely that the israelis will be able to maintain the status quo and the situation when a large part of the west bank is occupied, continues to be occupied, and is regularly settled by jews in settlements, which are built in contradiction between'. mr. igor, very briefly, literally one minute, we understand that lebanon and

israel regularly exchange rocket attacks, 5 days ago lebanon announced 30 missiles from the side, or rather, lebanon launches 30 missiles on the territory of israel, today it declares that as a result of israeli missile fire, civilians are being killed, should we hope for de-escalation, at least in this direction, in the south... well, i think so , i think a large percentage of the fact that in the event of the signing of the gas agreement, the end of the war in gaza, there will be a de-escalation and conflict in the north of israel, and at least, well, we can start from this when we talk about the beginning of this escalation, yes it has begun just after the start of the war in gaza. thank you for the content. analysis ihor simivolos, director of the center of middle eastern studies, joined the saturday political club, and in a minute

the person without whom it is impossible to imagine will appear in our program. vitaly portnikov, wait. the saturday political club at espresso continues. my name is khrystyna yatskiv, and i congratulate vitaly portnikov. greetings, khrystyna, greetings, dear viewers. before our last meeting with you, several important events happened, if we talk about the ukrainian offensive on kurtshchyna first, we can now confidently say that this is a ukrainian offensive. the ukrainian state recognized its military presence on these sovereign russian territories. we do not yet understand what the ultimate military objective is, but nevertheless, successes are practically daily in this direction. ukraine also announced the creation of administrations. on the currently managed, currently controlled territories, which means

that we will be there for a certain time, and we need to deal with, in particular, the population that remains there, ukrainians are discussing the topic of to do with the chickens, whether it is possible to evacuate them to ukraine and similar things. mr. vitaly, how do you see the situation in kurshchyna now? well, i think we can talk about what the armed forces are. ukraine is trying to gain a foothold in this territory and expand the zone of its control. and it is also obvious that russia will now try to gather troops in order to knock out ukrainian forces from this territory, there is already a lot of evidence that this is happening, but the question arises again, to what extent the russians will be able to implement this in the coming weeks and even months, because given these resources that the russian federation has, in order to knock out... ukrainian troops from the controlled territories, it is necessary to redeploy its own

armed forces from other directions, which are now the focus of the russian military command. and this is not only the donetsk direction. we have to remember with you that the troops of the russian federation are located in several directions in ukraine. this is the donetsk direction, where the most intense fighting is going on, and there russia expects to gain control over key positions. and continue to develop an offensive for the occupation of the entire territory of donetsk region, this is an important task for them, because vladimir putin set before his army to take control of the administrative borders of donetsk region and luhansk region as early as... february 2022 , let's not forget that this was the beginning of the so-called special operation, but in addition to this direction, where we are now watching with great anxiety the fate of pokrovsk, as a strategic point in donetsk region, there is the kharkiv direction, where the russians are still quite heavy, fearful, one way or another after they entered in vovchansk, do not hide their desire to expand this control zone in the kharkiv

region, there is the zaporizhzhia direction, and we should not forget about it, and there is the kherson direction. that is, in fact, there are four active directions of military clashes between two enemy armies in ukraine, and now they are talking about the zaporizhia, kherson and kharkiv directions, these are the directions from where russia is trying to redeploy part of its forces to the territory of the kursk region, so , of course, so as not to reduce their ability to hold these territories, or development of the initiative in these territories, if we are talking about the kharkiv region. of course, ukrainian military leaders could. to hope that russia will first of all transfer troops from the donetsk region to the kursk region and thus make it easier for the ukrainian armed forces to resist the russian military offensive. according to most military experts, this does not happen, but other areas are also no less important. we are primarily dealing with stretching the front. stretching the front is a problem for both

sides, and it is certainly not ours here understanding how many er... ukrainian troops are involved in the kurdish operation, and how many russian troops moscow will gather to try to knock our troops out of this zone. well, i don’t want to act as a military expert now, but even people who are not very knowledgeable in military affairs understand very well that if a foreign army enters somewhere, if it strengthens itself in certain positions, creates engineering fortifications that need to be overcome, then this... may have a smaller number behind these fortifications servicemen than the army that will advance on someone else's position, and the delay of the russian army in the offensive, the fact that they are forced to gather troops there, and this is already happening for the 11th day, of course, makes our task easier in the kursk region, that is, we we can have not such a large number of military personnel there, these military personnel

can expand the area of ​​their own responsibility, and at the same time, the russians will not be able to... their occupied positions, because these positions can be reliably fortified. and one more important point, what are there facilities, say, that prevent russia from carrying out any active bombing of territories. i mean, first of all , the sozhen gas measuring station. of course, russia is interested in ensuring that its transit obligations to european countries are fully fulfilled. and by and large, when they say, well, we could stop... now the supply of russian gas, i apologize, this russian gas is supplied through ukrainian territory, in order to stop the supply of russian gas and freeze europe, we absolutely do not it is necessary to make a judgment, we can do it ourselves, but that is the paradox of the current situation, that russia and ukraine, both countries are interested in being conscientious

executors, executors have already reached an agreement, for us it is a question of money for transit, this is huge... money, after a few months, ukraine will practically stop receiving it, because the contract between gazprom and naftogaz of ukraine will expire, i understand that both parties, they are not going to continue it, although there may be some in-between, intermediate agreements, but ukraine will also get rid of this money, which was a certain support for our economy, which has actually already been destroyed today, and this is also such an important point, as for how to act there, how to treat the population, the answer here is very simple: for laws of international law, because all these discussions of the ukrainian population seem rather strange to me, because the citizens of ukraine forget that ukraine is a security protectorate of the civilized world, and that the ukrainian state generally exists on political map of the world, this is the result of the active

support of our efforts by the united states and the countries of the european union, if not for these efforts practically. the entire territory of ukraine would now be occupied by russia, it would have been part of the russian federation for two years in a row, it just needs to be clearly understood so that no one has the impression that ukraine is capable of defending itself from russia, and by the way, this there is no need to be ashamed, ukraine is facing the greatest nuclear power of the modern world, a country with a nuclear arsenal weapons that can destroy humanity in a few hours, a country that is about 140 miles. population, which during the last years, the putin years, was preparing its army for active military operations on the territory of foreign countries, because the restoration of the soviet union in the borders of 1991 was, is and will be. the main geopolitical goal of the russian state and the russian people. ukraine was not involved in any of this. ukraine has been destroying its own armed forces for decades. ukraine did not prepare for the danger from

the east. ukraine elected pro-russians politicians who actually destroyed the entire russian and ukrainian infrastructure in the east of our country. let's recall these subversive actions that former president viktor yanukovych engaged in. even after 2014, 2009 , ukrainian voters adopted a decision that actually meant a certain stabilization of our military positions in the east of the country, where the russian occupiers were already, namely the withdrawal of troops, that is, in fact, in fact, the ukrainian state and the ukrainian people did everything to destroy them, and what we are fighting for is what it is, i would said such a small political and security miracle of the 21st century, but this miracle is guaranteed precisely by western support. and it is still a small country with a destroyed economy, frustrated, already occupied on 20% of the territories, 2.5 years, and i hope it will be another 2.5 years, another 2.5 years, does not allow itself

to be destroyed by a large country of eurasia, which embraces the territory from, now no longer from suja, a little further already has its control and all the way to vladivostok, so what we are in opposition to. of the country, the largest country in the world by territory, is helped by the west, it's great, and there's nothing to be ashamed of, but it means that if we're allied with states that respect international law, and not with states that don't care about international law, then we have to respect international law in our defensive actions, so and that's all, as international conventions provide for the attitude towards the local. this is how we should behave, this is an absolutely real thing, if citizens of the russian federation, which is located on the sovereign territory of the russian federation,

let me remind you that this is not ukrainian territory from the point of view of international law, it is russian territory, this is not the donetsk region, not luhansk, not crimea, there may be a completely different legal regime for citizens of the russian federation if we liberate these territories, but if they want to leave this territory, we must... ensure the possibility of movement to that a territory where hostilities are not reflected. of course, in this situation, the best solution would be to open the corridors on the territory of that country, to the citizens of which they are. if there is no such possibility, of course we have to open corridors on the territory of ukraine for them, further that's another question. ukraine can ensure through the territory of ukraine that these people can get to the territory of the russian federation, which is not in the zone. hostilities, this is a matter of russian-ukrainian agreements, by the way, i would like to remind you that such agreements were reached even by us and the russians, when citizens from the russian-occupied territories of ukraine went there, say, from

mariupol, from other populated areas of ukraine, even the russians allowed to show disrespect for international law, another matter, they are there arranged some kind of filtering, it was all shameful, the way they behaved, we should not behave like that, although of course there is a certain amount of work to identify possible... agents of the russian special services, among the population who, let's say, will be transported to ukrainian territory, too it should be and it will be, it is also absolutely obvious, but when it comes to women, children, elderly people , the population in the occupied territory is the responsibility of the occupier, ukraine is the occupier of the territory of the kurdish region, so i ask stop, can we, that is, i thought for a long time about how in what status we are now, sutotechno... but it turns out that if so, we occupied this territory, but security experts say, no, we effectively control these territories now at this stage it

is different from occupation mr vitaly we have lost sound with you i can see what you are saying but i can't hear you if we can hear now yes if you if we control a certain area create there own commander's office, tsepo. on the territory, nothing special about it no, again, why should we call things by other people's names, like the russians, but the russians occupy our territory, the donetsk, luhansk, kherson, zaporizhzhia regions, crimea, sevastopol, these are territories occupied by russia, they can convene meetings of the state duma of the russian federation, the council federation, send letters to the constitutional court, dance some russian folk dances on... ivanovsky square of the kremlin, do whatever you want, annex these territories, write them in the russian constitution, write them in school books, it's still occupied

territories, you know? occupied from the point of view of international law. from the point of view of international law, the kurdish region is the territory of the russian federation. it doesn't happen no, we can exercise effective control over it, but this is occupation in the very word, it doesn't change that. there are different motives for the occupation. the russians occupied our territory because their goal is the liquidation of the ukrainian state and the annexation of ukrainian territories to russia. this is one goal of the occupation. yes... annexation by and large russian occupation of ukrainian territories is a step towards annexation. we occupied the territory of the kurdish region in order to reduce the military potential of the army, which carried out aggression against our state, and to allow ourselves to reduce the resources and capabilities of the russians on our front. that is, it is a retaliatory occupation. by the way, i would like to ask you a

question. when the allies occupied the territory of germany in 1900 there in 44-45, it was an occupation, it was called the occupation zone, no security experts called it anything else, it was called the soviet, french, british, american occupation zones, and no one said that it should be called effective control otherwise, so when people start to engage in some euphemisms, because we are good, the good are not the occupiers. no, the good ones act as occupiers, the question arises simply, for what reason do you occupy, if you even occupy the entire territory of the aggressor country, you have such an opportunity, then it is an occupation for the sake of peace, for the sake of forcing the aggressor country to stop its aggressive actions against your state, the result of this occupation may even be the destruction of state institutions in the country of the aggressor, their replacement by their occupation commanders, as was the case in germany, and

the creation. in the future, the conditions for holding free elections in the former aggressor country without the participation of those forces that you consider guilty of aggression? again, there may be quite serious discussions as to what legal norms this corresponds to, the nyuber process does not correspond to any legal norms at all, ugh, there the winners judged the losers, these are absolutely specific legal norms, they were specifically for this adoption process. however the occupying countries of germany believed that the german courts, which were then created, by the way, to try other, lower-level war criminals, could not have jurisdiction to try the leadership of their own country, why, because from the point of view of german law, how can you judge people for the leaders of the country, who have immunity from legal prosecution, actual, who do not violate the laws of this

country, but act with... with the laws of this country, and the laws themselves are criminal, well, that's why such an idea was created as nyusi tribunal in occupied germany, it was in occupied germany, in the occupied city of nurberg, you know everything, like in a black room, a black intestine with a black person, and here, we are creating occupation control bodies, command posts, which will be, in fact, their existence will be ensured. occupying forces, what is the best way to call it? well, call it effective control, whatever, well, it 's still you, or it is, and why i'm trying so hard to prove it, because in this situation, our actions must comply with the norms of international rights, and they will comply with the norms of international law, this has already been announced in the ukrainian state public institutions, what people write on social networks simply speaks about them, i would say deep

legal. infantilism, that they simply think that we can afford what russia affords, first of all, we cannot, because we are a different country, a different civilization, because we treat ordinary people, human life differently, because we understand very well that some grandmother is trying not to think about the war, she does not is responsible for the aggressive actions of its own government and its own army, for its own actions of the army and... the political leadership and military leadership of the russian federation is responsible, we can have moral claims against ordinary russians, moral, just as people had moral claims against ordinary germans, but no legal , i would say that no citizens of the russian federation are responsible, people who directly make criminal decisions and carry out criminal acts are responsible.