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marathon with mykola veresny, saturday 17:10, sunday 18:15 at espresso. the verkhovna rada regularly passes new laws, but how do these changes affect our lives? we have analyzed new resolutions to inform you about the latest changes in ukrainian legislation, how legislative norms change our lives, what to prepare for? leading lawyers of the aktum bar association will answer these and other questions that concern ukrainians. watch every tuesday at 7:55 in the legal expertise program on the espresso tv channel. dear friends, we are back, lesya vakulyuk andriy saichuk. the final half hour of our participation in the marathon, and in these half hours we will talk about the ban on the russian orthodox church and its activities in ukraine. people's elected officials should vote for it. let's. now let's talk a little about it, we

already have a guest, taras antoshevskyi, regional expert, historian, director of the religious information service of ukraine risu, and mr. taras, i suggest you and our viewers watch the material of our colleagues, who, let us remind you, what exactly is this path, what was that way of this were going, but what exactly is in this final document that will be presented to the deputies for consideration? there is, is he there for, or is that child still there, relatively speaking, in that tub, or in that bowl, let’s see, the bell floats, floats over russia, such a prayer sounded in the kyiv-pocharsk lavra in the fall of 2022 and... this became another signal to

society's understanding that the moscow church is moscow, not only in name. at the same time, people's elected officials began work on draft laws to ban the uoc-mp in ukraine. in general, in the verkhovna rada registered 11 draft laws banning or restricting the activities of the uoc mp, among them initiatives numbered 8221, 8262. and 83-71. in november 2022, more than 30 people's deputies from various factions, led by mykola knyazhetsky , submitted draft law 8221. it provided for a ban on the activities of the russian orthodox church and its divisions on the territory of ukraine. premature termination of all transactions related to the use of property and established peculiarities of naming religious organizations, in particular. it was about

prefix orthodox. the document was rejected by a monomajority. in december 2022, the initiative was registered 82-62 by more than 20 deputies of various parties led by iryna konstankevych. they suggested speeding up the procedure for confiscating property of the uoc and facilitating the transition of communities to the ocu. servants of the people did not support such an initiative either. and so on january 19, 2023 , document number 8371 appeared. it was initiated by the cabinet of ministers to implement the decision of the national security council. it foresees that the russian orthodox church will be banned as a religious organization. organization. everyone's activity religious organizations affiliated with it will be terminated following a clear procedure that will include an investigation, an injunction and an injunction. the russian orthodox church and affiliated structures will not be able to use state

and communal property and simplify the transition of communities to the ukrainian local orthodox church. the path of bill 8371 was ternist. it passed the first reading only in october 2023, and until the second it was long and scrupulously worked on in the committee. july 23 was the climax, the monomajority refused to put the draft law to the vote, so that session of the parliament ended with the tribune being blocked. first, today, tomorrow and the day after tomorrow, if they do not set, and they do not set the law on the church, meetings. there will be no council, and it happened, from that day on the draft law was worked on again in the committee. on august 16, yevgenia kravchuk, deputy head of the vru committee on humanitarian and information policy, reported that the amendments to the draft law were unanimously and finally

approved. among the important changes, the draft law now has a new name on the protection of the constitutional order in the field of activity religious organizations. he will enter. enters into force 30 days after its publication and has a clause that allows you to apply to the court for the termination of the activities of a religious organization that has a connection with the russian orthodox church and the aggressor country, this norm enters into force 9 months after its publication. the committee emphasizes that the state does not restrict freedom of religion, but excludes any ties with russia and its churches. these are the cases. dear friends, i remind you that taras antushevskyi, religious scholar, historian, director is visiting us of the religious and information service of ukraine risu, and today we are talking about whether the people's elected representatives will finally be able to vote for the banning of the russian orthodox church, by the way, one of our boxers

who loves the uoc mp has already posted a story, and we can show the scrim of this stories, he warns about the consequences, he says that... lomachenko, somehow not quite in ukrainian, so to speak, although it is written in english letters, but in russian, mr. taras, i finally have a word with you, and what consequences do you think he warns about everyone deputies, because he

posted lumachenko in the photo of the session hall, well, at least from the fact that it is not known what can happen at the moment when the voting begins, this issue is being considered, because, so to speak, the means of communication transmit information quickly. there is alarm and targeted missile fire and everything else, that is, it is important for them to preserve, that is, the status of the russian orthodox church in ukraine is extremely important, and for them it is one of the means of influence, and unfortunately, no matter how ideal the law would be, if it was not the draft law is written, it will not solve the problem, just like once or twice , the laws on corruption, lustration, liquidation, decommunization, yes, if instead of decommunization there is a progressive one, they did not solve the problem. the left-wing propaganda of various ideologies, that is , the problem is not solved, the way it is not solved, there is a problem with the ukrainian language, because, in fact, many people speak it naturally, some speak artificially , but step by step, we are still moving in that direction, we will take a step , as it will be voted, a further step will be taken, of course

various instructions will be prescribed along the way, which will be for the implementation of this law, and what is very important is that it should not be created immediately, because there were different draft laws, there were versions of this... draft law, which created a little bit and, shall we say, moments, on which it was very profitable to speculate for russian propaganda and their conditional defenders, and also the problems were such that there were legal cases, well, for example. "we want to liquidate the russian orthodox church in ukraine, we call it that, but it does not exist by law yes, because the law, the law that was adopted in the 18th year, it never entered into force, that is, no, it was not so perfect that there was a norm for punishment of some sort for its non-fulfillment, that was certain, i know , in the regions where they refused to make amendments to the charters of the existing communities or some of the religious organizations of the ukrainian orthodox church, because according to this law they should be renamed, they did not want to rename these organizations. it

does not legally exist, or for example, we also use the term uoc-mp, but legally the uoc exists, but also the uoc, and the fact that the ocu called itself the uoc, so that, let's say, the calf's child is not if not to drown one's own child instead of someone else's, yes, that is , in fact, these legal cases, well, if it were easier for historians or journalists or someone else to say. about certain things, but for lawyers this moment is always wrong, this one is wrong, this is wrong, you see, mr. taras, but i agree with you here, the only thing that seems to me is that the law has a spirit in addition to the letter, and it is sometimes more important, always certainly, more important than, or is it not at least a good signal for parishes, for parishioners, for parish priests, for example, who are thinking there now, i think you know that i don't know, i don't know whether all those points are prescribed or are there, because if the law does not also prescribe punishment for propaganda, or it is not possible that changes will be made... changes to other laws, where it is mentioned , in fact, relatively speaking, the sign changes,

so the parishes, lawyers will come and say, and now we quickly do it once or twice like this, yes, but they remain essentially the same as the moscow patriarchate, but it is added that, that is, for ukrainian society, they finally accepted ukraine, society will say, why not immediately cut everyone with an ax and so on, yes, and on the other hand, they have very good lawyers, who, as we see, win court cases, which frees their main propagandists, somehow it happens like this. this is our humane court, and actually, what will happen in their line, they have extremely best propaganda, all the churches put together do not have such propaganda as they do, will there be some kind of directive, how to do, shoot, so on, yes further, to come, but this public will become even more is negatively disposed towards ukraine, and again propaganda will actively work, how many churches in ukraine that are subordinate to the russian orthodox church still remain? er, i don't remember the exact number of communities, er, well, it

seems to be somewhere over 800, so there is disagreement about what it is, in us, er, a long, long time ago, the kyiv patriarchate tried to block the draft law, the basic law, about the fact that our legislation had to change significantly, that is , in fact under european standards, because according to european standards there is a religious the organization, that is, the structure of the church, yes, and it consists of subdivisions, yes, we do not have this, yes, we have separate subdivisions, and... in fact, it is different that all these and brotherhoods, missions, parishes, diocesan administrations, monasteries, these are all separate legal entities, they, they are not only canonically so firmly united by one structure, but from a legal point of view, everything is not so clear, and actually, that the expenditure is about the fact that the communities act, yes, the number of people we do not we know because, first of all, there are areas where almost no transitions took place in the east in ukraine, there are occupied territories, where we also cannot talk about who they are actually subordinate to, maybe there is something there... more pro-ukrainian than in our territories, so here you go, that is,

in fact, these numbers are very relative, yes only about the number of variants, the percentages are called, they are very, very relative, sociology gives a lot, relatively speaking, if you go to one area where the moscow patriarchate prevails, they will give and add a plus, and if you go to another where the ocu prevails, they will add them, and it will not be to be true, in the early 90s, i read an interview with an italian professor, whom i can't remember now, unfortunately, and... his main thesis was that ukraine, which had recently gained independence and was recognized , he said that ukraine will not be a completely independent country until the issue of the moscow patriarchate in ukraine is resolved, as long as the russian orthodox church is active in ukraine, ukraine will not have real independence, this is what zelenskyy is probably saying in the end, when he is now in the address says about this spiritual there independence and so on, is this not an exaggeration, or do we really have to get rid of this church. there is even more to say here, that is, of course, that it is about dependence, but this dependence is not only in the russian

church in ukraine, it is also in the mentality and ocu of many who think the same way, they have the same worldview in both terms and attitude, for example, to state-church relations, yes, that is, somewhere in the 15-16th year , he met, well, he had such an opportunity, we had seminars, traveled around ukraine and met priests the kyiv patriarchate was convinced that in russia the ideal conditions for state-denominational relations are the leading churches, and all others must adapt to them, if it remains in our country, and it remains, yes, if the terms for the lead sound. ma'am, this means that all that soviet worldview of this is, caesaropism, which is. today, we have a very good publication on that topic, which, if we were to say such a theological analysis , is presented under it, that in fact, in this environment of russian orthodoxy, the russian orthodox tradition, with which the ukrainian the church is also connected because she came out of it now, right? we are talking about our thousand-year history, but our hands

were a part of that russian church for centuries, did not go anywhere, were under the influence and were the same agents of the kgbb. we seem to have talked to oksana pogomiy, a deputy from kherson, on our broadcast of the council, and asked her how things are going with the russian orthodox church in kherson oblast, which suffers so much from russian missiles, and she says that at some point people will somehow... not move , here is some part moved on, and the rest of them were so censored as it was convenient for them, as they were used to, and they talk about, and what is the difference, god alone, we are used to going to this church, and what is the matter here, you say that the russian orthodox church has the best propaganda structure, which all churches in ukraine do not even have,

and how to resist this propaganda, sbu, information propaganda, us. look at us, for example, why many of us, and knyazhytsky, other deputies shouted that the world does not understand us and so on, and so on, in we have an english version, but we have a weak one, it’s all a matter of funds, it seems that she didn’t go to the informational propaganda event at all, so, for example, many people came to me, that’s why you don’t write, there is a lack of authors , to write in order to present it in high quality for a western audience, yes , we have several authors in ukraine who can write and they are still loaded with many things, so we lose in that regard, we do not have a state policy in that regard. so when you see information flows like now internally various ideas are played out there, for example, about the creation of a parallel structure of the patriarchate of constantinople, and they shout again that the patriarchate of constantinople does not have the right to interfere in ukrainian affairs, because we already have tomos pro, that is, it is violated from the other side, so we have thomas, but on the other hand, the sapele the patriarch has the status of such an arbiter, so he can help

, not interfere, help, as he in his time in the 18th year helped, let's say so, to get out of the problem, because we would never have done that... that is, we are internally informed, this is probably the weakest part, we actually have almost no normal state policy and internal church policy, you look at church websites, so look at church media, they lose extremely, in us, for example, now the same populism, which has become the norm, that it is better to really tear down the church door with a bulgarian than to convince people, and we have many now, we cannot oppose all the priests of the moscow patriarchate, because there are. for example, there is sofia brotherhood, where the priests of the uoc and the ocu have gathered and are trying to reach an understanding among themselves, and at the same time, at the episcopate level, few people support this initiative, and from both sides, of course, this is not the case in our country, when, for example, in 18 in the pre-soviet cathedral, the bishops of the moscow patriarchate went to the cathedral, there was such information, and their ee or fsb, mp in ukraine managed

to return, so where was our sbu, so in fact the hand. because it does not mean that there will be order and good, because it will be the same again, this association must be around the idea, and people should unite, not around a sign, i understand that, but it shows how difficult the situation is, we, we have, i don't know, centuries of religious wars in europe, we, we understand that this is not possible, as with the cathars decided at one time, relatively speaking, with the orthodox moscow. the origin of separating the flies from the meatballs, that is, there are flies that are harmful, they must be clearly separated, not to be confused, even the fact that we exchange them, on the one hand, it is necessary, because it is necessary, and on the other hand, they will act from there, well that medvedchuk's propaganda, the network is not medvedchuk's

hope in ukraine works, it works, why the main propagandist, why the main manager of all this antony. pakanych goes on, although there are some kind of conditional sanctions, why does he continue to act on his own and so on and so on, why are there a lot of cases of examples, for example, regarding the fact that they are accused of religious intolerance there, there all confessions can be in something like this to accuse like this, since he also has intolerance to the moscow patriarchy, we all have intolerance to something, and therefore, this is not the accusation that it should be, is anti-state activity, i still know how moscow priests acted during the time of kuchma and yushchenko. patriarchy, the army and its consequences in the 14th year, i heard from the military, why no one deals with those who were engaged in the army, in our people's parliament, oh, in the people's parliament, in the verkhovna rada we have a people's deputy artem dmytruk, i already i remembered him today, who recently, a month ago, became a subdeacon of the ukrainian orthodox church and thanked onufry, and i even wrote that such a deacon is just in case, well, he is such

an ordinary assistant deacon, such a deacon, he in fact, let's say this, he is quite an influential person at the cathedrals, a friend of mine says what a subdeacon, he could do a lot, because in fact he helped the bishop, he is very influential, and he can sometimes even give instructions to the priest , but in fact it is not in the church... poroshenko was also a deacon, well, listen, we, we have a couple of minutes left, we are sitting in lviv and, mostly catholic and in the region, all the government is orthodox, but this government, and orthodox, and well, in fact, everything is in ukraine it should have been different, all ukraine should have been greek-catholic, because there was once, there was a union and it was in russia, of course, but i mean, what is the score here... the greek-catholics who are watching all this, or can the greek-catholic community, the greek-catholic church somehow join these important processes in ukraine. look,

in the 18th year there was a very good sociology, the summer of the 18th year, about how representatives of different faiths feel about the fact that ukraine can receive tomos. and among the greek-catholics there was the greatest support among the greek-catholics tomos' idea was, that is, it was there somewhere, it seems behind 60%. at the same time, when there were orthodox, autocephalous chiiv patriarchates. more is needed, but, for example, i know that there were phrases about the ruler, not the ruler or something, for example, when he refuses to participate in joint initiatives of some kind, i understand somewhere the orthodox orthodox church of ukraine, because from the side of moscow it was constantly sounded , that tomos is the first step towards a union or something else, but greek catholics can join, well, they cannot be mediators, yes, because there are some in cases where, for example, i know... in some areas where the attitude towards greek catholics on the part of the moscow patriarchate was terrible, in some it was better than on the part of the kyiv patriarchate, even in the same bukovina, but i just arrived for the reports, then i was actually told that it used to be like this, that is

, in fact, good neighborly relations are not the main problem, and it was the same when, before tomos , the autocephalies quarreled with the kyiv patriarchate and this continued even after the unification, which means that for years or decades did not communicate like this. and greek-catholics were not a stumbling block, because whatever it was, the historian doesn’t have it, i can’t say, if so, but in fact, we have different ages in history, when, for example , galicia, greek-catholic galicia became such a certain mecca for the orthodox of eastern ukraine, who could come here and be ukrainian orthodox with them, yes, because there they had to be russian orthodox, so all the first language circulars, russian decrees related to church topics, and also volui and others. 30 seconds what to expect from chi an epochal law, an epochal law, to expect a lot of hard organic work, but unfortunately, ukrainians don't like that, thank you very much for that

, ukrainians sometimes like it when they wave a magic wand and it somehow gets resolved, one viewer here wrote that there really isn't more questions about what to talk about in our country, there are many questions, take even the lack of water in the crooked corner, but i think that... thank you for participating in our broadcast, thank you to our viewers, 15 00 hryvnias were donated today against yesterday's, for example , currently 33, not much, but you still have a chance to correct yourself, thank you for being with us, lesya vakulyuk, andriy seychuk worked for you, see you tomorrow at 7:10, well, this time... continues, stay. tired of the mess in the kitchen,

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saws stron t and that. you need to call. there are 10% discounts on carsiel tablets until independence day at the pharmacies of psyllium, bam and ochad, there are discounts until independence day on magne b6, 10% at pharmacies psyllium, bam and ochad. news time on espressu tv channel. kateryna shiropoyas works in the studio. at night, explosions rang out in ternopil. the russians hit an industrial facility. a fire broke out on the spot, the state emergency service reported. fortunately, no one was hurt. local authorities called people tightly close the windows due to the noticeable smell of burning. approximately around that. hours of the night we

received a report about the fire.