after a year and a half of discussions and controversies, the verkhovna rada banned the activities of the russian church in ukraine, what will happen next and how will this affect the believers of the ukrainian orthodox church, which... used to be called the church of the moscow patriarchate, about this in the next 15 minutes of the bbc broadcast, jafer works in the studio moderated spiritual independence from moscow. with these words , volodymyr zelenskyy announced a draft law at the end of 2022, which now directly prohibits the activities of the russian orthodox church in ukraine. verkhovna rada voted for this bill in the second reading. the document was supported by 265 deputies against. 29,

four more abstained. what does this law provide? its main goal, according to the deputies , is to ban the activities of the russian orthodox church and religious organizations related to it in ukraine. the ukrainian orthodox church was not named directly in the law, but the deputies themselves say that it is about her. and although the ukrainian orthodox church insists that this church left moscow in may 2022. the adoption of this law is condemned by ta'. actions of the ukrainian authorities with persecutions, and more about this law and how it works will work, my colleague vitaly chervonenko will tell. in the draft law, which grew from two pages to 23 pages between the first and second reading, there is a lot, it has already become such a complex document that regulates everything from prohibitions to community transitions, to property issues, a lot of various things. and that was the first thing he forbade. activities of the russian orthodox

church. he further describes that at the same time the state will eventually ban and cancel the registration of those structures that are connected to the russian orthodox church in ukraine. it does not directly say that this is the ukrainian orthodox church, but the deputies openly say so, but it is not written in the law. what will be the procedure for a possible ban or cancellation of registration. the state service is specialized, which deals with religious issues, it will study who in ukraine is affiliated with the russian orthodox church, compile a list, inform this church and its representatives that you are such, do you have connections, please remove these ties, or declare autocephaly, change the statutes, well, there can be various actions, join the orthodox church of ukraine there, and if after a certain time

, the ukrainian orthodox church does not respond, relatively speaking, we understand that there will be complaints against it, then only after 9 months after the beginning the operation of the law, here and there, she gets the right to file a lawsuit in court, that is, these nine months, conditionally speaking, if the president signs in the next few days, then from this time we count where 9 months and she can file a lawsuit somewhere, there are administrative courts, appeals consider it the highest, and the final decision ultimately decided by the supreme court. this is a very high level, but there is another nuance in this law, which must be understood, that while there may be courts, all these things, as soon as des establishes that some structure there is connected with the russian orthodox church, immediately automatically contracts for the lease of state property are being broken, that is... there are

approximately 300 parishes of the ukrainian orthodox church in ukraine, which, these are architectural monuments, and they are on lease, and they can be taken away from these communities very quickly, literally in a few months, six months and or transfer ocu, the orthodox church of ukraine, or something else to build a museum there, well, roughly what is happening with the kyiv-pechersk lavra, and here is another nuance, that there is no such legal entity in ukraine, the ukrainian orthodox church, there are almost 900 legal entities... persons, the kyiv metropolitanate is at the very top, there are dozens of dioceses and parishes, that is , it will be necessary to file a lawsuit there from top to bottom, that is, there may be many lawsuits, and as we understand it, it will all last, maybe more than a year, because there there are deadlines, several months for court proceedings, that is, not before than a year later, there may be some court decisions, in general, in the orthodox church, approximately 900 parishes in ukraine. these are approximate numbers. but

why this law on the church took so long to pass, and how the ukrainian authorities went about the legislative ban of the russian orthodox church in the following material. separation from the russian orthodox church was discussed in the uoc in the first year of the full-scale war. appeals to patriarch kirill to protect ukrainians remained unanswered. instead, the one in moscow demonstratively blessed the russian military for the war and gave gifts to the commander icon of the russian guard. uoc parishes in various regions were transferred to the autocephalous orthodox church of ukraine. and in may 2022 , a council was held, a meeting at which the uoc made a decision on independence from the russian orthodox church, and representatives of the east, those dioceses that could only participate in the discussions online, and representatives of all other regions, could

find those formulations in brotherly love and those decisions, in particular in the changes to the statute governing the ukrainian orthodox church, which would... determine the path of our existence churches in modern conditions and tensions did not grow, uoc churches were searched, secret service employees found pro-russian literature and russian passports there, public sentiments escalated, so the president had to react to the situation. volodymyr zelenskyi spoke about changing policy in the church sphere. and in december 2022, he held a special meeting of the rate. so, first, the national security service. instructed the government to submit to the verkhovna rada a draft law on making it impossible to operate in ukraine affiliated with centers of influence in russia federation of religious organizations. second:

the state service for ethnopolitics and freedom of conscience to ensure the conduct of a religious examination of the statute on the management of the ukrainian orthodox church . church-canonical communication with the moscow patriarchate, if necessary, to take measures provided for by law. and the examination found this connection. in january 2023, the verkhovna rada registered a bill to ban religious organizations associated with the russian orthodox church in ukraine. at first, the document was concise and provided only the procedure for the court ban of such churches. then there were disputes and resistance, in particular. in the end, in october of the same 2023, the draft law was adopted in the first reading. for a long time , the deputies did not return to the consideration of the draft law, but in mid-august, president volodymyr zelenskyi unexpectedly again declared his

spiritual independence and gathered the council of churches for a conversation, where he called for support for the draft law on the ban of religious organizations connected to russia. council members later issued a joint statement. where they condemned the activities of the russian orthodox church. the next step was voting in the verkhovna rada. and representatives of the uoc reacted to the adoption of this law. metropolitan kliment said that everything that happened around the adoption of the law was reminiscent of the atheistic ideology of soviet times and the methods by which this ideology was implemented. and we talk more about this with religious scholar andrii smirnov. greetings to andrew. metropolitan kliment's reaction is predictable, but how appropriate is it to compare the actions of the ukrainian authorities with soviet times? i congratulate you. this is certainly an incorrect comparison, because we do not have 1937 year we have not been persecuted for believing in jesus christ and have not shot saints. instead

, it is said that the ukrainian orthodox church should break its church-canonical and administrative ties with the moscow patriarchate. which blesses and justifies putin's war. ukraine is a democratic state that has undertaken international obligations to observe religious freedom, and all churches agree in principle that national security must be protected from external religious influences. the all-ukrainian council of churches supported it initiative of the president and no complaints about violation of basic standards. there is no religious freedom in ukraine, but from a practical point of view, what will this law change for the believers of the uoc, because after all, these are millions of people in ukraine. nothing has changed for ordinary believers, they have prayed and will

continue to pray in their churches. this law is primarily aimed at the leadership of the ukrainian orthodox church, led by metropolitan onufrim, in order to encourage it to finally break it. ties with moscow, because the council, which was held in feofania, he only distanced himself from the russian orthodox church, expressed his disagreement with the actions of patriarch kirill, but... after clearing the statute of references to the russian orthodox church, he added a very important change, namely a mention of the letter of moscow patriarch alexy ii in 1990, according to which independence and autonomy were granted in administration, but independence and independence as part of the russian orthodox church, it has the right to independently choose its own bishops, to create new dioceses, but metropolitan onufriy remains. he is a member of the synod of the russian orthodox church, all bishops are members of the synod of bishops, therefore

the state service for ethnic policy and freedom of conscience will conduct an examination of all statutory documents, issue an order to remove these pore, if the uoc finally breaks its ties, then it will continue to exist and will have legal entities all the rights that religious organizations have, if not, then the state service for... politics and freedom of conscience will apply to the court for the termination of legal entities. well, now uoc parishes, they are slowly, but moving to approximately 200 parishes have transferred to the ocu in 5 years, while the opc has approximately 9,000 parishes in ukraine, but is it possible to unify the churches? yes, of course, it has long been discussed that the two orthodox jurisdictions in ukraine... need to unite on the basis of the tomos on autocephaly, which was granted by the ecumenical patriarch. after all,

the official delegation of the ecumenical patriarch will arrive in ukraine tomorrow, which will also hold talks with metropolitan onufry, metropolitan epiphany and the president of ukraine volodymyr zelenskyi, we expect that a certain mechanism or transition model will be found for a pro-ukrainian -minded part of the ukrainian orthodox church. i would first restore communication with the mother church, the ecumenical patriarchate, and then start a dialogue with the ocu about unification. this path will be difficult and long-lasting, but there is no alternative to dialogue. and if we raise the issue of churches, the law provides that the authorities can terminate the lease agreements of ancient churches with the uoc without court decisions. how can this happen? first, it is necessary to spend religious expertise and... publish a list of all legal entities affiliated with the russian orthodox church, after that

all state authorities and the state property fund will receive this list, they can see what are the concluded usage contracts with architectural monuments, and report these legal entities, temples or monasteries that their contracts for free use are prematurely terminated, and they must hand over these buildings to the state, what the state will do with them next, can transfer to the orthodox church of ukraine, may use in another way. and can ooc representatives or defenders challenge this law, both in ukraine and, for example, in the west? undoubtedly, we are a democratic state, and all decisions, whether it is about termination or even final decisions, even regarding the breaking up of the dogors, will of course be made by the courts, and the ukrainian orthodox church has. lawyers and even involves external lobbyists such as robert amsterdam and will sue

the ukrainian state at every stage of the implementation of this law. thank you, thank you andrii, religious scholar andriy smirnov, were you in touch with us? thanks again. and how this church law, which was adopted by the verkhovna rada today, will work, read on our website bbc.ua in this article by vitaly chervonenko. he ate. what will happen to the ooc, when and who can ban it and take away part of the churches, and can this law stimulate the unification of ukrainian orthodox? subscribe to our pages in social networks so as not to miss the most important news and analysis, we are on facebook, instagram and tiktok, on youtube you can view our release if you missed it on air. and that's all we have time to tell you today, most of it. search for the story on our bbc.ua website. and we will be on the air again tomorrow at 9:00.

take care of yourself. congratulations, friends, the second part of the verdict program is live on the espresso tv channel. my name is serhiy rudenko. and for the next 45 minutes we will talk about this. a difficult spiritual choice. the uoc mp should break up. canonical and organizational ties with the russian orthodox church, or disappear, or will the kyiv metropolitanate dare to leave the 350-year dependence on moscow war does not prevent stealing. law enforcement officers expose corruption in ministries and departments almost every day. why has zelensky still not fulfilled his promise to equate corruption

with treason. effective. control in the border regions of russia , ukrainian military commandant offices are created. what does this mean and how will ukraine administer these territories? friends, we are working live, and throughout our broadcast we are conducting a survey, today we are asking you about whether the russian orthodox church will stop operating in ukraine after adoption of the law, i mean the law that was adopted today by the verkhovna rada of ukraine. countries on youtube everything is quite simple, either yes or no, if you have a separate opinion, please write it in the comments under this video, if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote by calling 0800 211 381 , if you believe that after the adoption of the law of the supreme verkhovna

rada, which reads as follows, the activities of religious organizations in ukraine will be suspended . in ukraine roc 0800-211-381 no 0800-211-382 all calls to these numbers are free vote at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. i would like to introduce the guests of today's studio - this is volodymyr vyatrovych, people's deputy of ukraine from european solidarity, member of the parliamentary committee on humanitarian and information policy. mr. volodymyr, i congratulate you. thank you for being with us today. good evening. somiya bobrovska, people's deputy of ukraine , member of the parliamentary committee on national security, defense and intelligence, deputy head, head of the permanent delegation of the verkhovna rada to the nato parliamentary assembly. mrs. solomiya, i congratulate you, thank you for joining the broadcast, good evening, well, since we are asking our tv viewers and

viewers, mr. volodymyr and mrs. solomiya, will you stop operating in ukraine? the russian orthodox church will cease to operate in the russian orthodox church in ukraine after the adoption of the law, i will ask you in the blitz poll format what you think about this, whether this law will cease the activities of the branch of the russian orthodox church in ukraine. ms. solomi? i think so volodymyr would be, probably more correct, he is from the ruling committee, but also my answer blitz, unfortunately, no, this is only the beginning, and she can only offer for those. e parishes or parishes, which are very directly documented , are related, more precisely, directly to the russian synod. thank you, ms. solemiya, mr. volodymyr, i have a slightly different answer, the russian orthodox church should stop its activities, because a separate article of the law clearly states the prohibition of the activities of the russian orthodox church of ukraine. as for other organizations that

affiliated with it, the so-called uocmp, for that it will be necessary to really conduct an examination, for that... a court decision will be needed, all the necessary mechanisms for this religious organization to either break ties with moscow or cease its existence, it is in the law, but we live in ukraine, we understand very well that the implementation of the law is possible under the condition of public pressure, observation of journalists, so we are vigilant together, we did everything to make it happen, there are all possibilities for this, but we are not relaxing, well, but in this situation, which is currently developing in ukraine. there is a full-scale war, there is an enemy church that works under the banner of the uoc mp, and we understand that it is part of a branch of the russian orthodox church, although they said in the spring of 22 that they have nothing to do with the russian orthodox church, is it necessary in the conditions of war , mrs. solomie,

this is a very long transition period, nine months to find out, to do everything right. at a time when there is a threat to national security and defense? well look, obviously i'd say no there is no need, and we, the representatives of western ukraine, have already eaten our teeth on this a long time ago, i represent the rivne region, which in fact has always been one of the same regions in religious, among religious organizations, you know very well, in fact, that especially the north of the region, the polish region is such a belt , it is actually filled with... er, the russian church, unfortunately, the transitions were very difficult, and they really fell to a minimum, unfortunately, precisely in the rivne region, for example, yes, when we are talking, at least about western ukraine , how it happened is therefore obvious. i would i wanted to say no, because i grew up following the examples of vasyl chervonui, one of the heads of our regional administrations, who was killed by the russian church itself before the arrival

of cyril, but since we have a democratic society and the search for a compromise is actually a priority for us, and this compromise was found and it was so acceptable to all parties, who voted for or who received, but finally he allowed it all into the hall, then... unfortunately, we have to agree with this, and here volodya was absolutely right, er, our most difficult story will be this the issue will be the implementation of this law, not even in time there will be history, the issue of implementation, how decisions will be made here, how these or other violations, these or other connections will be considered, and so on and so forth, because apart from western ukraine, we have there is eastern , southern ukraine, and northern ukraine, which is not going to move... in the direction of such independence from the kremlin, and unfortunately, this humanitarian trend, it gave us a crack somewhere and went into regression, i have to admit that,

because often on at the front, it is often east and south, and i am very sorry that we are raining, starting with the language, which ukrainian is heard less and less on the street, ending again with music and even those concerts that may have the right to be held in russian in kyiv, i am not talking about the editions of two ukraine books. languages ​​there and so on and so on, it seems to me that we are entering a very difficult, such a turbulent period, where we have to withstand either regression or progress in the protection of the humanitarian direction, president zelensky, who just a few days ago announced the adoption of a decision on how he said about spiritual independence, today he thanked the verkhovna rada of ukraine, which passed the law banning the activities of the russian orthodox church in ukraine, it was a government bill that was supported. was in the second reading with 265 votes. let's listen to what zelensky said. a law has been passed regarding our spiritual

independence, this is what we talked about with the members of the council of churches and religious organizations. and in a few days i will also speak with the representatives of ecumenical patriarch bartholomew. we will continue to strengthen ukraine, ours. society, i expect documents from the parliament, mr. volodymyr, your colleague, oleksandr zinchenko, a historian and publicist, he said that finally a coalition of national unity was formed, because the slogan army is the language of faith, now it is the slogan of volodymyr zelenskyi, but zelenskyi did not mention the fact that it was the representatives of your faction, in particular mykola knyazhytskyi and... your deputies from european solidarity, back in the 22nd year, proposed to make a corresponding decision, why did it take so long,

why did we see this delay of the final decision, even in government implementation, i mean the law and the adoption of a decision in the parliament, stefanchuk did not introduce this bill, there was a very long period between the first and second, second reading, what was the problem? well, first of all, it seems to me that sasha zinchenko, despite the fact that he is a historian, he showed excessive optimism when he said that some kind of coalition army is the language of faith has already formed, i commented on this by the way as follows, that nothing will stop zelenskyi, who decided lead an idea whose time has come, in fact, and answering the previous questions, i'm not so sorry for the nine months that will be needed, the additional ones that will be needed to implement this law, i'm sorry... really, that this bill was not passed immediately, as soon as the first bills appeared on this topic in the spring of the 22nd year, there were all opportunities for this, just

then, volodymyr zelenskyi's voice was probably missing. volodymyr zelensky, unfortunately, stood aloof from these processes for a long time, as did the absolute majority of representatives the servants of the people party, with some exceptions, who were very actively involved in this process, but the majority, unfortunately, stood aside and did not take any position, there... a small part was actually those who took a clearly pro-russian position, the majority of those who took a pro-ukrainian position, but the largest part was the part that did not have any position, and they were waiting for president zelensky's position to finally manifest itself, but this is just the case when it is better late than never, unfortunately, it happened only a few weeks ago therefore, and we can see how much it immediately changed the situation in the parliament, to the point that today, in fact, the adoption took place with the tacit consent of the opzzh, which did not even... put any of their more than a thousand amendments into account for confirmation, did not even try to somehow disrupt this whole meeting, that is why zelensky's role here is

that this process. which is really great, but i regret that so much time had to be spent, and in fact, i think we succeeded, precisely because we were able to appeal and convince the majority of ukrainian society, as sociology showed, more than 80% of ukrainians supported the ban of the russian orthodox church, i think that this became the decisive factor, the decisive driver of influence on volodymyr zelenskyi, who decided that it was worth it... to support it, considering on what changes have taken place in public consciousness. i am sorry that the parliament sometimes lags behind, slows down, instead of somehow shaping public sentiments, does not keep up with them, but it is better that way than contradicting those public sentiments, therefore, in any case, i believe that an important historical event took place today, with which i congratulate everyone. as for the vote itself, analysts of the movement honestly analyzed the list of people's deputies who voted against

the law on prohibitive activities. roc in ukraine, or those who abstained. so, you see, this infographic was made by our colleagues, honestly. the opposition platform for life - 17 votes against, restoration of ukraine - seven against and one abstention. servant of the people - four against and three abstentions, non-partisan, one vote against. we see, in principle, a clear trend when there are factions, which... medvedchuk, and the other, let's say this, to various groups of oligarchs who did not vote or abstained from voting for this draft law, and here it arises absolutely, this infographic does not have those who did not vote, there are actually a little more of them, yes, yes , yes , well, they haven’t voted yet, there’s a lot more,

they just took out the cards while in the hall, they didn’t vote, accordingly they are not in this infographic, yes, yes, thank you for the clarification, mr. volodymyr, ms. solomi, but considering this , this, such a position on the fundamental issue of these people's deputies of ukraine, whether it is possible for them now to call people's deputies of ukraine, isn't it time to raise questions about the existence or stay in the verkhovna rada of people who were elected on the lists of the same party, the opposition platform for life. which is already officially banned in ukraine, but deputies still pass laws or vote against laws, form the legislative field of the state, during the war, representatives of this enemy party were and remain not only in the verkhovna rada, but also in local self-government bodies, in 2020 more than 400 deputies were elected from opzh? well

look, so the right also owns here? we need, when all this is published on the voting site, to see who was absent without good reason, who was present but did not vote, so this infographic of the agency, unfortunately, is much wider. and regarding the formal title or not of these deputies as people's deputies, unfortunately, there is a constitution of ukraine, which clearly states under what conditions a deputy can lose his mandate and cease to be a people's deputy, this is the first, the second, among them and such.. . obvious possibilities - this is death, this is a court decision, this is a personal statement written to the speaker, we know that there are problems with those people who write statements to impose a mandate, as we can see, there is no desire for a great deal from opzzh, from those remnants who today there are here, we see that they are still alive and healthy, but i do not see that, unfortunately, there are still suspicions for a number of these deputies who...

waited for the occupation, who occupied their places potential, by the way, in particular in the presidium of the supreme councils, now they are sitting peacefully and calmly in opzzh giving coalition votes, situational for, unfortunately, the servants of the people, there is no suspected of neither collaborationism nor treason, it seems to me artem dmytrov, one of the bright people present in the parliament today, one of them, yes, here we can mention boyko, and lyovachkin and many others on the list, but unfortunately, for this ... we also need a political voice and will in order for these people to form their alliances and leave the parliament, unfortunately, there is no such will even from bankova street, i think that there would be more than one volume of criminal proceedings against each of them and suspicions that could have enough grounds for these people submitted their mandate and left the parliament.