what does this mean and how will ukraine administer these territories? friends, we are working live, and throughout our broadcast we are conducting a survey, today we are asking you about whether the russian orthodox church will stop operating in ukraine after the adoption of the law, well, it means the law that was adopted today by the verkhovna rada of ukraine, everything is on youtube quite simply, either yes or no, if you have a separate opinion, please write . in the comments below this video, if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote for by numbers 0800 211 381, if you believe that after the adoption of the law of the supreme verkhovna rada, which reads as follows, regarding the activities of religious organizations in ukraine, the activities of the russian orthodox church in ukraine will be terminated, 0800 211381 or 0800 2113. 72. all calls to these

numbers are free , vote at the end of the program, we will sum up the results of this vote. i would like to introduce the guests of today's studio, this is volodymyr vyatrovych, people's deputy of ukraine from european solidarity, member of the parliamentary committee on humanitarian and information policy. mr. volodymyr, i congratulate you. thank you for being with us today. good evening. solomiya bobrovska, people's deputy of ukraine , member of the parliamentary committee on national security. and intelligence, deputy head, head of the permanent delegation of the verkhovna rada to the nato parliamentary assembly. ms. solomia, i congratulate you, thank you for joining the broadcast. good evening. well, since we ask our viewers and viewers. mr. volodymyr, ms. solomia, will the russian orthodox church cease its activities in ukraine, activity in the russian orthodox church in ukraine will cease after the adoption of the law. i will ask

you in the format of a blitz survey, what do you think about this, will this law stop the activities of the branch of the russian orthodox church in ukraine? ms. solomi? i think that volodymyr would probably be more correct, he is from the profile committee, but also my answer to blitz, unfortunately, no, this is only the beginning, and it can only be used for those parishes or parishes that are very directly related to documents . more precisely, directly to the russian synod. thank you, ms. solomi. mr. volodymyr. i have a slightly different answer. the russian orthodox church will cease its activities because a separate article of the law clearly prohibits the activities of the russian orthodox church of ukraine. as for other organizations that are affiliated with it, the so-called uocmp, then for that it will be necessary to really conduct an examination, for that a court decision will be needed, all the necessary mechanisms for this religious organization to be dissolved. ties with moscow,

or has ceased to exist, it is in the law, but we live in ukraine, we perfectly understand that the implementation of the law is possible under the conditions of public pressure, observation of journalists, so we are watching together, we have done everything to make it happen, and there are all the possibilities for this, but we are not relaxing, well, but in this situation that is currently developing in ukraine, full-scale war, there is an armed church that works under the banner of the uoc mp, and we understand that it is a branch of the russian orthodox church, although they said in the spring of 22 that they have nothing to do with the russian orthodox church. is it necessary in the conditions of war, mrs. solomie, very big this period, the transition period, nine months to find out, to get everything right at a time when there is a threat to national security and defense. well, look. it's obvious that i would say no,

it's not necessary, and we, the representatives of western ukraine, have already eaten our teeth on this a long time ago, i represent the rivne region, which in fact has always been one of the most conflicted regions in religious, among religious organizations, you you know very well, in fact, that especially the north of the region, the polish belt, it is actually filled with the russian church, unfortunately, the transitions were very difficult and they really fell to a minimum, unfortunately. precisely in the rivne region, for example, yes, when we talk, at least about western ukraine, how it happened, so obviously, i would like to say no, because i grew up on the examples of vasyl chervanuy, one of the heads of the administration of our oblast, who was killed by the russian church itself before the arrival of cyril, but since we have a democratic society and the search for compromises is actually a priority for us, and this compromise was found and it is so acceptable for... all

parties who voted for or who received, but finally allowed it all into the hall, then unfortunately, we have to agree with this, and here volodya was absolutely right. the most difficult of ours will be history, this question will be the implementation of this law, not even in time there will be history, the question of implementation, how the courts will make decisions, how these or other violations, these or other connections will be considered, and so on and so forth, therefore that in addition to western ukraine, we have eastern, southern ukraine, and northern ukraine, which is not going to move in side of such independence from the kremlin, and unfortunately, this humanitarian direction. i gave us a crack somewhere and went into regression, i have to admit that, because we are often at the front, often it is the east and the south, and i am very sorry that we are falling apart, starting with the language of which ukrainian is less and less heard on the street, ending again, with music and even those concerts that may be

held in russian in kyiv, i am not talking about the releases of ukrainian-language books there and so on and so forth, it seems to me that we we are entering a very difficult and turbulent period, where we have... either regression or progress in the protection of the humanitarian direction, president zelensky, who just a few days ago announced the adoption of a decision on, as he said, spiritual independence, today thanked the verkhovna rada of ukraine, which passed the law banning the activities of the russian orthodox church in ukraine, it was a government bill that was supported in the second reading by 265 votes, let's listen to what zelensky said. a law has been passed regarding our spiritual independence, which is what we talked about members of the council of churches and religious organizations, and in a few days i will also speak with representatives of the ecumenical patriarch

bartholomew. we will continue to strengthen ukraine, our society, i expect documents from the parliament. mr. volodymyr. your colleague oleksandr zinchenko, a historian and publicist, said that finally a coalition of national unity was formed, because the slogan army-language is faith, now this is the slogan of volodymyr zelenskyi, but zelenskyi did not mention that the representatives of your faction in particular , mykola knyazhytskyi and your deputies from in the 22nd year of european solidarity , it was proposed to adopt the corresponding year. why did it all take so long, why did we see this delay of this final decision, even in the government implementation, i mean the law and the adoption of the decision in the parliament, stefanchuk did not introduce this bill,

there was a very long period between the first and second, second reading, what was the problem well, first of all, it seems to me that sasha zinchenko, despite the fact that he is a historian, he showed excessive optimism, saying that... some kind of coalition army is the language of faith, by the way, i commented on it as follows, that nothing will stop zelenskyi, who decided to lead an idea whose time has come, in fact, yes, and answering the previous questions, i am not so sorry for the nine months that will need additional ones that will require the implementation of this law, i really regret that this bill was not passed immediately, as soon as the first of the bills on this ... topic appeared in the spring of 22 , all the opportunities for this were, just then, probably, volodymyr's voice was missing zelensky. volodymyr zelenskyi, unfortunately, stood aloof from these processes for a long time, accordingly, the absolute majority of representatives of the servants of the people party, with some exceptions, very actively joined this process, but

the majority, unfortunately, stood aloof and did not take any position, there is little in fact, some were those who took a clearly pro-russian position, most of those who took a pro-ukrainian position. position, but the largest part were those who did not have any position, and they were waiting for when finally some position of president zelenskyi will appear, but this is just the case when it is better late than never, unfortunately, it happened only a few weeks ago, and we can see how much it immediately changed the situation in the parliament, to the point that today essentially the approval took place with the tacit consent of the opzh, who did not even put any of their more than a thousand amendments for confirmation, did not even try to somehow disrupt this entire meeting, so zelenskyi's role here is that he started this process is really big , but i'm sorry that so much time had to be spent, and in fact, i think we succeeded, precisely because we were able to appeal and convince

the majority of ukrainian society, as sociology showed, more than 80% of ukrainians supported the ban of the russian orthodox church, i think that and this became the decisive factor, the decisive factor. such a driver of influence on volodymyr zelensky, who decided that it was worth supporting it, given the changes that have taken place in public consciousness, i am sorry that mr. the parliament sometimes lags behind, slows down, instead to somehow shape the public mood, does not keep up with them, but it is better that way than to contradict that public mood, therefore, in any case, i believe that an important historical event took place today, with which i congratulate everyone. as for the vote itself, analysts of the movement honestly analyzed the list of people's deputies who voted against the law banning the activities of the russian orthodox church in ukraine, or those who abstained, so you see this one... according to the schedule, our colleagues honestly made the opposition platform for life, 17 votes against,

restoration of ukraine - seven against and one abstained, the servant of the people - four against and three abstained, non-factional, one vote against, we see in principle a clear trend when there are factions that are both a group, a faction and a group that were under the control of medvedchuk, and the other, let's say, different to the groups of oligarchs who did not vote or abstained from voting for this bill, and here it appears absolutely, this infographic does not have those who did not vote, there are a little more of them, in fact, yes, yes, yes, well, yes, they have not voted yet, there are many more party servants of the people who they simply took out the cards, being in the hall, did not vote, accordingly they are not in this infographic, yes, yes, thank you for the clarification, mr. volodymyr, ms. solomi, but considering this such and such a position on the fundamental issue of these

people's deputies of ukraine, can they now to call people's deputies of ukraine, isn't it time to ask questions about the existence or stay in the verkhovna rada of people who were elected on the lists of the same party, the opposition platform for life, which is already officially banned in ukraine, but the deputies still pass the law. or vote against laws, form the legislative field of the state, during the war, representatives of this enemy party were and remain not only in the verkhovna rada, but also in the bodies of local self-government, in 2020 more than 400 deputies were elected from opzzh, eh, well, look, that's how it rules here too right, we need, when all this is published on the voting website, to see who was absent without good reasons, who... was present, but did not vote, that is why this infographic of the agency, it is much, unfortunately, wider, but

in relation to the formal name or not the name of these deputies are people's deputies, unfortunately, there is a constitution of ukraine, which clearly states the conditions under which a deputy can lose his mandate and cease to be a people's deputy, this is the first, second, among them and such obvious possibilities - it is death, it is a court decision, this is a personal statement. written in e-e to the speaker, we know that there are problems with those people who write statements to put a mandate, as we can see, there are no wishes for a big one from opzzh, from the remnants that are here today, we see that they are still alive, healthy, but i don't see that, unfortunately, until now, there are suspicions for a number of these deputies who were waiting for the occupation, who were occupying their seats, potential, by the way, in particular in the presidium of the verkhovna rada, now they are sitting and peace... calmly in upzzh giving coalition votes situational for unfortunately there are no servants of the people

suspected of either collaborationism or treason, it seems to me that artem dmytruk is one of the bright people present in the parliament today, one of them, so here we can mention boyko and lyovachkin and many others on the list, but unfortunately for this we also have to the political voice and will for these people to draw up their mandates and leave the parliament, unfortunately, this... will is not there even from bankova street, i think that each of them would have more than one volume of criminal proceedings and suspicions, who could have enough reasons for these people to submit their mandate and leave the parliament. and there is already, there is already a reaction from the uoc mp, the head of the information and educational department of the uoc , metropolitan kliment, said in a comment to hromadskyi that the uoc will continue to live as a true church, and any attempts of it to ban may lead to the discrediting

of those who seek it, the ukrainian orthodox church will live, and this is an objective thing, any attempts to ban an objective thing only leads to discrediting, including international and those who want to implement it somehow . mr. volodymyr, as far as i understand, the biggest problem will be when... in the application of the norms of this law, in fact, to demonstrate the connection of any religious organization, we are not talking only about propts-mp, but obviously they can. be other churches that have ties with the aggressor country, this is to prove that this church is affiliated with the russian orthodox church or with some other russian churches, that is, this will be the biggest problem and the biggest problem will be in the court, especially the problems in this sergey, i think the law contains seven criteria, compliance

with one secretaries means a connection with the russian church with the center in moscow. moreover, i even want to say that at one time, about a year or so ago, just to implement the decision of the national security council, we already had an examination carried out by the state service for politics, freedom and conscience, which discovered that there is a connection between the so-called ukrainian orthodox church and the moscow patriarchate, so in reality it is not such a problem, because in fact it is practically impossible to hide these organizational connections, and the ukrainian orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate was not really going to to hide them, believing that the situation may change again. they made a fuss and that was the end of it . these connections with moscow and act by merging either with the orthodox church of ukraine, or as some separate structure, or to stop their activities, they perfectly understand that the situation has already changed, so these ridiculous

comments about objective reality, they are not about what, the reality... has changed after the adoption of this law, and they are obliged, trying to act in the legal field of ukraine, to adapt to this reality? thank you, mr. volodymyr, ms. solemiya, for russians , the existence of a church under the control of the russian orthodox church is and has always been important, that is, putin repeatedly spoke publicly about what this spiritual unity is, that we went there. er, from one root or from one church there, well, of course, this foundation, which he tried to pump up during the last 24 years of his stay in power, it shows that obviously, obviously, this process will not be so easy on the part of russia, and obviously this is

quite a painful process for putin himself, who lives in... some of his illusions and compiles his pseudo-historical intelligence and tries to explain the unity of ukrainians and russians, what do you think the reaction might be putin, who always counted on the russian orthodox church, well , on the branch of the russian orthodox church in ukraine, now it is called the ukrainian orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate, will they manage in some way to maintain their influence on some... it comes , can they rename some, well, create some church there call it conventionally speaking the ukrainian church there and leave your eyes in your ties and your bathing suit, yes , first of all, you are right, religion in the concept

of the russian world plays one of these educational places, in particular, in the documents, by the way, the russian measure is clearly spelled out in the decrees, orders, in particular of the president of the russian federation, and unfortunately we remember that it was due to the spread of this russian measure that the creation of the russian measure began in the 14th year under the pretext of protecting people who profess russian peace and the russian the language is one of those factors and ending with the 22nd beginning of the great invasion, so you are right, i really have a big ... doubt that it will just fall apart, moreover, it will be more than the opposite, and if we are the uoc, then very often, by the way, the judicial branch of government, that's a lot widely, they are the people who support, by the way, the roc or the ukrainian orthodox church, which are often beautiful and great people, who

finance a large part of the construction of these churches, so i believe that there will be a huge amount of sabotage. at the level of decision-making, at the level of the courts, and we have to prepare for this, and i believe that this will be one of our biggest challenges in terms of the ability of people or the commission of foreign policy, freedom of conscience to prove where there are violations, and the question is what kind of people are working in this commission today, what are they lobbying for, what are their interests, how will they be to behave, and the second is the courts, so we are entering a very long, big, difficult phase, maybe and definitely more difficult than even. tuyka started, by the way, volodya, and we at the local levels continued decommunization, decolonization, this is a much bigger challenge for us, and here we will have to work completely professionally. from lawyers and ending with public pressure in the courts and not allowing these things from the public sphere. when we discussed this draft law

or the law that had already been passed, we discussed it always how religious organizations will exist and what order will be the existence of these religious organizations that were once or are connected to the russian federation, but we practically did not... discuss how the parishioners will react , many people who are used to going there to the moscow priests, and very often in my social networks i start writing about these decisions of the verkhovna rada, they come and start telling us that we are doing so well, we will somehow live with it, that you are telling us here, mr. volodymyr, whether or not was this issue discussed? let's say, work with the parishioners so that they clearly understand that the church they went to

is an enemy church, and in some way still convey to the audience and the public that such a church has no right to exist on the territory of ukraine, i think that the majority of parishioners, even the ukrainian orthodox church, are not there... because it is the moscow church, not because they like putin, because of some simple traditions, because they believe in something specific there fathers and so on, that is actually in the law the possibility is provided for these people to continue to remain the same parish, to pray in this church, if they are ready to either transfer to the orthodox church of ukraine, and the law provides for an easier procedure for transferring to... the orthodox church of ukraine, as the only legitimate canonical orthodox church now in ukraine, or they can continue as some separate church separated from russia. i am sure that for

most of these people, this organizational connection with russia is not fundamental, unfortunately, it is fundamental for the hierarchy of this church, who, in essence, were the agents of the russian world in ukraine, unfortunately, they were the fundamental, this organizational connection for... many priests, priests of this church, who were actually such a nerve connection between moscow and kyiv, therefore, the task of our bill from the very beginning was not to prohibit someone from praying, but to break these organizational ties, i am sure that after breaking these organizational ties, those people for whom prayer to god is really important will pray to god, regardless from the fact that that this will now not be done through moscow. thank you. thank you, mr. volodymyr, friends, i would like to remind you that we are working live and today we are conducting a survey throughout our entire broadcast, we are asking you about whether the russian orthodox church will stop operating in ukraine after

the adoption of the law, yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, yes, no, or write your own opinion, please, in the comments under this video. if you're watching us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote on 0800 211 381 if you think the approval for... after adoption of the law will stop the activities of the roc in ukraine, not immediately, of course, but it will stop, no 0.800 211 382, ​​all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. another important topic, mr. volodymyr and ms. solomiya, which is standing, and the problem facing ukraine, is the fight against corruption, the internal corruption front is pressing, and we... according to the messages from nabu and sap, we receive messages almost not every day, deputy ministers, heads of the central committee, and heads of various

state institutions, structures, they are accused of receiving bribes, that they do not live on a salary, and we remember that on august 27 , 2023, almost a year ago, volodymyr'. spoke about the fact that he would introduce a bill to the verkhovna rada on equating corruption with treason, but as far as i remember, and maybe you can correct me, such a bill was not introduced, what is the reason for this, is ukrainian legislation sufficient to fight ukrainian corruption and why is there so much corruption, why do we see it like this many cases of corruption during the war, ma'am. solyny? well, first of all, it is necessary to ask the colleagues of the servants of the people why the president did not introduce it, or those who actually work with the president, it is unlikely that we will find the right answer here, why it was not introduced, but

in fact, if he... i am personally fed up with changes in legislation, responsibility for corruption and in the fight against corruption in the industry, because the number of bodies that have been created in the last 10 years is already beyond measure, and every time there is a question of the effectiveness of these bodies, work, activities, whether they sufficiently detect corruption, whether they themselves are not corrupt, whether they themselves do not pursue and do not have a conflict of interest when they investigate, we have simply gone into the endless. in the reports, in particular of public figures, which relate to simply an immeasurable number of years and the family that has to report, now those people who hold certain positions, so it seems to me that we no longer have any issues with the legislation here, the issue is mostly with implementation, especially the introduction punishments and passing judgments on certain cases, in particular to things that concern not only ministries and executive authorities, deputies, but also

bodies. is that enough, do you think why, why do we see so much during war, especially during war? anti-corruption officials explain that the number of our anti-corruption bodies is large enough, and now their work is finally visible, so these and such cases are public, painful, but public, maybe so, but judging by the fact that who who... publicly sounds in we are now under investigation and suspicion, starting from deputy ministers, ending with deputies, by the way, he came back again, today the head of the temporary investigative commission dealing with fortifications was finally replaced, this suggests the integrity, obviously, not only of the people who occupy key positions, but also of the personnel policy of the president's office, which people are put because it is obvious that it is not the parliament

that makes the final decision. it has been decided who will take the place of minister or deputy minister, unfortunately, unfortunately, not the parliament, and therefore the question here goes to the personnel decision-making of bankova street, and the effectiveness of bodies, in particular the judicial branch of government, using the existing legislative resource in anti-corruption issues. thank you, ms. solomi, mr. volodymyr, we remember this long history of... anti-corruption bodies, and we remember that we have the most powerful legislation in, well, at least in europe, so precisely anti-corruption, why its application, and especially prejudice against corruption , before committing a crime, why does this not happen in ukraine, why are there so many corruption scandals during the war, i absolutely agree with

solomia, that the current... legislation is enough to fight corruption, i am absolutely sure that the thesis of equating corruption with state treason will do nothing to fight corruption, it is just a cool and populist slogan, there is nothing positive, so i am not surprised, that there is no draft law, because it will not give anything, why during the war it is heard and seen so much corruption, and because war accelerates, because war intensifies all those phenomena that already exist in society, that is, war manifests what is in... people, unfortunately, in some it does not show heroism, as in most of those who defend ukraine with weapons in their hands, unfortunately, in some it shows its own brutality, in other words , even to choose whom, when it is considered possible, necessary, to earn money on the blood of their countrymen. i am sure that it is possible and necessary, using the current legislation, using this anti-corruption infrastructure that was built, to fight

and even overcome it. corruption, but unfortunately, when, you know, it is clear that sometimes some corruption scandals eventually reach the top leadership of the state and die down there, this obviously inspires the corrupt, who understand that they can hide somewhere under the wing in order not to be caught, unfortunately, we do not see any examples the fact that if some corruption scandal affected volodymyr zelenskyi's closest circle, he, following the example of the doctor... said, no, come on, this, this is my former friend, he should be in prison and so on, no, nothing has changed, how much how many theses were about corrupt officials from the president's office, how much, how much was said about the corruption schemes that tatarov is collapsing directly, president zelenskyi cannot help but hear it, nevertheless, president zelenskyi...