century, and already such a full-scale stage or a full-scale cycle, it was inevitable, and maybe we will touch on this issue somewhere today in the conversation, this is a very important issue for understanding that you can never trust russia, you can never believe in some ephemeral peaces or the armistice in which russia offers you, and at the same time... you can't admire russia's democracy, why am i talking about this, actually, once again, i am appealing to our series, when we were preparing a series just about independence day and later about referendum, there was once such a president in the russian federation, whose name was boris yeltsin, and the world admired him, because he was a democrat, and so on, but if we look at the press of that time.

the great democrat yeltsin at the beginning of 1992 already began to openly threaten the state of ukraine that if it does not get rid of its nuclear status, he will make a pre-emptive nuclear strike on ukraine, and this is the year 1992, well, that is, the great democrat yeltsin threatens the neighboring already independent state that it will strike with nuclear weapons, if not performs its protection, and this is generally the entire history of russia, and the history of russia. and its relations with ukraine, that is, this faile state that exists on the northeastern border with us, they will never come to terms with our independence, they will never come to terms with our independence, so if we run a little ahead, here we are, you noted 11- and the day of independence, that is, this 11th day of independence, it will either take place in us, or, in my opinion, in my personal opinion, or we

will cease to exist as such, if the orange revolution, or the revolution of dignity, these were our days of independence and our victories, but we obviously could have lost in them, well, in fact, there were various factors that contributed to the fact that we could lose, but then we still had some perspective, well, that is, we can only remain ukraine there , and we will be... repeat, another fail state like belarus, yes, which, unfortunately, its self-proclaimed dictator is now who they are, but we won then, now there is no question of , whether we will remain as an ephemeral ukraine, in fact, the question is whether we will exist, or we will not exist as such, and therefore this day will either happen, and it will truly be the day of independence and the day of our victory, or we will cease to exist.

i very often analyze these things, which i worked a lot in the archives of the sbu, in various positions that happened in the 20th century, er, i held positions at one time, for about six years, my last position there, i was the deputy director of the archives of the sbu, a branch of the state archives of the sbu , and now during my treatment, because i am on leave due to my health, as a result combat trauma, and i remembered that in... in a previous life before the full-scale invasion, i was a historian and started working on a book now and again i am twisting the materials that i wrote before, i am raising new ones, again i am raising documents of the nkvd, mgb, kgb, and they are very illustrative, because they show very clearly what can happen to us if we lose, and this is conditional, let's say, with an active onr army or something like that? the main soviet

special service with the petliurivtsi, and this is the vast majority of the personnel of the army, i have mind you, now the armed forces of ukraine will be physically liquidated, even if not on the battlefield, then later tracked down and liquidated by special services, a large part of ukrainians who fought for independence in other armed ways, i mean ukrainians in the body, who help, who volunteer, who cares, who hurts ukraine, they , respectively... as supporters, as the soviets called it, of the ukrainian counter-revolution, yes, here, that is, as supporters of, say, the ukrainian people's republic, they will be condemned, sent to siberia , well, it will remain in fact, that part of the collaborators and that part of the pochekuns or zhduns who, unfortunately, still exist in ukraine and still exist, moreover, they are in different parts of ukraine, like here in lviv, where we are now having a conversation, or in odesa, whether in kyiv or kharkiv. that is, i don't want

to say that our prospects are sad, because we are now an independent country, which has a fairly strong and professional army, and... which is helped by the west, and we have a chance to win this war, only because for us to win this war, this war must become a people's war, this should not be a war of units, it should be a war of the majority. when i talk about the people's war, that is, it is not only that there is somewhere there, we, you know, as it happened, unfortunately, somewhere in 2016, 17, 18, when the news from the ato zone, but then. from the zone of operation of the united forces, well, there was already a decline, decline, decline, well , somewhere there are some boys and girls somewhere in the east, they are fighting with someone there, we are okay here, we have life here, but i have nothing against a peaceful life, although i am a soldier, but

a peaceful life is a peaceful life, it is good, because actually you can go on vacation to a peaceful city, where your wife, or your lover, or your mother is waiting for you there and spend those 10 or 15 days away from... wasteland, but this war should not start in manivka , and you should never forget about her, but in civilian life, actually. when it will be popular, when the whole people will fight, then we will be able to win. on february 24, 2022, it looked like a national day, everyone mobilized then. how was your february 24 this day? oh, i had a very funny one, well, i don't want to look like a clown, it's... of course it was not a funny day at all, but it started interestingly for me, that is, i had a premonition of something, and we had a meeting there in the evening with the director of the center for the development of social sciences and humanities, we were supposed to make a presentation of a book there, i say: listen, it’s all good, what we are planning, but it seems to me that it will start from day to day, and i will not be at this

event, but they convinced me that nothing will start, well, okay, and then i sat down in the middle of the night to finish the book, just then, my colleague from tetyana pastoshenko of the institute of history of ukraine, national... academy of sciences we worked on the book pro-red security police camp of the 1st sd, well, that is, it is a nazi camp on the territory of kyiv, which existed from 1941 to 1943 and where a lot of people were actually murdered by the nazis, and we worked on a collection of documents by order of the university of jerusalem, that's why i mentioned it for a reason, because - putin... came to de-nazify us, and i was sitting, working on a collection of documents about the nazi camp, well, i don't know if he knew about it, i guess he didn't know, so i was working somewhere, the truth is somewhere before 1:40, and then i simply fell asleep on the computer, well, that is, the beginning of a full-scale sleepover, and i was woken up by

my good friend from the states, bohdan gavraliuk, he is from the organization of the defense of the four freedoms of ukraine, and he called me , i was sad and picked up the phone, i said what happened, he says you have... a war, i say, i’m either asleep, or something seems to me, he says, the war is on the news, and then i went to ukrpravda, saw that really a full-scale invasion began, well, and then everything turned upside down, a warlord, not a territorial warlord the center of manning and social support, tsk, better known, distribution, the first, the first month is the defense of the ternopil airport , i was in the... after that, it's a counter-sabotage company, later a reconnaissance company, and then since the summer of 22

, it's a direct participation in the battle line, it's donbas, the north of donbas, the raisin direction, later the south of kharkiv. then the kharkiv counteroffensive, then kupyansk, and now sumyshchyna. a long way from ternopil? 1200 km. you are currently recovering, and recovering from a wound, a combat injury. yes, well, it's called a combat injury, but somehow, well, we like to joke with our brothers, somehow it happened, i jumped and broke my knee. well, it happens, yes, did he just jump like that or was he still saving his life? we carried out measures to mine positions, and unfortunately we were, you can use slang, we were burned by slang, you can, and

you can use slang, okay, you can others, we were burned by the ork, and the ork hall, well, that’s it their scout drone, and then what, after they saw us. mortar shelling started from their territory, and it was necessary to urgently take a position below the ground, there is such a position below the ground, and i was in this ammunition, i unsuccessfully jumped somewhere from a height of three. meters, well, that's how it turned out, that's how i was, this injury is the first injury of some kind, this is already the second, the second, and that's it, i'm always lucky, lucky for mines, all the same 82nd, because near kupyansk too was 82, but she hit the wall of the dugout above my head, but oh well there was this one there, there was also, well, such a scratch, as the guys say, hey, guys who are with you, did anyone from... have a question for you, or a question with a claim, like a historian, they say, if you knew there was going to be

a war, why didn't you warn us, or why didn't you historians warn us all, no, well, we warned, well, the truth is, i'm asking if people ask this, i even, i can even drop the articles, where we they warned about this, uh, no, the guys didn't ask that, well, here, uh, there is probably here, well, i won't open any big secret, there is a m... as i see it in ukrainian society, and among my brothers and sisters, there is such a certain question somewhere, probably to the authorities, that is, that for a certain period it went according to the principle, like this hollovic film with leo deka, don't look up, i.e. don't look up, but it was a dangerous tactic, many really didn't believe what was going to happen, well, but everything pointed to that, and our western partners pointed to the fact that the guys don't have such questions, we are there , when someone has time and mood, we talk about other historical issues, and what is interesting

people who are with you in the trenches, who are shoulder to shoulder with you, but they do not have a historical education, what are they interested in, are these stories, are they from the history of ukraine? i apologize, well , it depends here, that is, someone is interesting, well , my brother actually fights in the same platoon with me, he is a historian and graduated from the same faculty as me, well, that is, we are with him as sometimes. we stick our tongues, then we can talk for a long time, but not only about history, there are also about international relations and about other things, it depends on who has what request, well, that is, i have my platoon, he is interested in history, so even when it was more or less quiet in our positions there, well, near kupyansk, it is always relatively more or less quiet, but when it was possible to talk to each other a little at the sp, here he was there... wondering, and tell me about that, and tell me about that, and tell me about that, well, he later even this commander of the department in which i

was, now we are brothers, because we are two commanders of the department, and even then he was a brother, so he even to him he said, he says yes, i didn’t understand, but why don’t i have a night shift with a flap, he says, what are you moved me, well, i have a claim valve, yes, he says, why did you even find out why he is like that, he says, why did you move me, we talk about history at night, and you moved me, he says no, no , send me back to duty with him, and even those... and this one is different, there are different stories, that is, mainly the guys have a request for this, and here it is possible, i will even say more about the entire structure of the armed forces, which a request, a request for this is, uh, a request for this is, as simple as one of the guys being interested in the story, asking for something more explained, and the second point, is that in 2022, you mentioned... that there was a people's war, and, well, that is, really, when i, when i came to the army on the 24th, tsk,

i also passed there for a long time, the military medical commission and so on another thing, well, the very next day, the 25th, i arrived, i was supposed to be assigned to a brigade, and already on the 25th i saw how simply the doors, the doors of the tsk were being broken by volunteers, and then somehow i there came a very... very such a great peace, that is, i saw, yes, then if such a number, then let's hold on, i know from others there to their friends who were also in kyiv, i.e. when they saw the number of people who left, i.e. there from it people, businessmen, millionaires there to simple guys from borshchagivka or troeshchyna, i.e. everyone united and when they left, also some such a kind of calm came, well, although they were already coming quite close, but we... know, they were coming quite close, there was also vorzel, later, irpin, later bucha is close

to you, well, that is, whether moschun or others, but a certain there was peace because of it, and what i am leading it to, now then there were volunteers, ugh, that is people who had a very clear argumentation, why, why and for what, having at the same time families, having three, three minor children each, with me several of my brothers serve, who still have. these grounds for dismissal, they still continue to serve for 2.5 years, mobilization is now being carried out, is it necessary, obviously, or morally willful? such an argument before itself, does it exceed the one that was in the 22nd, i think, no, i think it is even a little lower, and therefore the question of history is necessary raise, it is necessary to raise with personnel, this should actually be carried out by moral and psychological support, units

of moral and psychological support, we have very cool examples of this, we have the third assault brigade as an example. uhu, where our colleague, historian oleksandr olforov also works, he is just engaged in moral and psychological support, i know examples of brigades that are now introducing such and such units into themselves, and that is, well, such units exist, but they are not developed, that is , they they are according to the internal instructions of the armed forces, but they are not developed to the extent they should be, that is , we need to talk with the personnel why this war did not start... february 24, that is, i always correct the interlocutor, well, it probably happened to you too, when the war started , friends say, this war began on february 20 on the maidan of the 14th year, not this one, but with the shooting of the heavenly hundred, and not on february 24, the 22nd year, well, if we look deeper, then actually this war, as our colleague volodya vyatrovych, she, this is our

century-old war, it started at the very beginning of the last century, simply on... simply from the fact that such an entity as the ukrainian people's republic is actually ours, our truly ukrainian state, if you look at it from a historical point of view and we are talking about the cossacks, then yes, this is the ukrainian national formation, but still they are considered proto-states, and onr - we already have the entire state with all its attributes, but it just stood across the throat, both white and red. but she is an orc, yes an orc, but well, she did not exist for long, this ukrainian state of that time, and existed from there were several factors, firstly, there were some disagreements in the leadership, some were pulled there, others here, and secondly, the people themselves did not really

want to go and fight, because they did not understand what they were fighting for, we still from time to time we spend some historical parallels, do you have the feeling that it resonates somewhere, or how are we different now, maybe we have done some work on mistakes? i think so, well, that is, i am generally such an ardent optimist, and i think, and see, and know and believe that we have done the work on mistakes. first the moment that the unr does not have, we have, this is support for the event. the unr did not have that, that is , they, they were actually alone, there, and it was very difficult. if we take the same entente, i.e. france and great britain, they supported the white guards, so white, if denikin wanted to capture kyiv, because he explained to his allies that kyiv is a city of the russian empire, well, they said, okay, well, like, well, it's there one, now we have the support of the west, two, we have a really

strong military, that is, we have, the armed forces of ukraine, not only the armed forces. of ukraine, i do not want to offend my brothers and sisters of the defense forces of ukraine, that is, because this is the national guard, this is the state border service, this is the security service of ukraine, the national police inson, insovoon, inson, and we have really strong defense forces of ukraine, really strong, armed, high-quality, maybe not all units are there to the end, but in the end, work on it is going on. we have e-e in the vast majority. no, i won't talk about 100% there, but we have awareness in the vast majority the population that they are ukrainians, they have the state of ukraine, and as for these orcs, well , okay, russians, and russians, they don’t want here, and they don’t want to see and hear them, they don’t need

their history, culture , well , we can still talk about this, because unfortunately, not everyone is so convinced of this yet, but that is, we have a lot of things won, we have a strong army, we have the awareness of ukrainians that they are ukrainians, they need this state, and we have the support of the west, unfortunately, the unr did not have all this, that is, the propaganda of the bolsheviks worked very well there, the power was divided there, let's remember how we worked, like vynnychenko, sometimes he ran away, then he returned to kyiv, only later, when konovalts' snipers defended poltava there, he did. i stayed in kyiv and, well, before that i wanted to run away several dozen times and whether moydan was packing, there were such things, now, well , for now, we have much more prospects and much more opportunities to defend ourselves. my state and my right to exist, uh, a little bit, our conversation is coming to an end, uh, me i will say one more such moment from your biography,

if you google the name volodymyr birchak, it gives such information that i was born in 1881, i am very well preserved, yes, but your photo, and it says that you are a ukrainian writer, literary critic, a soldier of the ukrainian sich riflemen, er, this is a relative, this is a relative, but he has, well, first of all, that this is a distant relative, that is, i researched his biography, i have an archival and investigative file, because he was once detained was detained in prague, then imprisoned by the nkvd, but he and i, in addition to that, that we are relatives, we have several things in common with him, he is a soldier of the ukrainian armed forces, i am a soldier of the armed forces of ukraine, in principle, two formations that fight for the freedom and independence of ukraine. he, like me, was once an archaeologist, he is, it is true, a cooler archaeologist than i, although i was also engaged in archeology, but, well, i am not a writer, i am actually a historian, although he is also

a historian, as it is, and we still have the similarity, that we have the same ears, eh, i really hope that his life ended, tragically, tragically, that is, here too the muscovite boot trampled... and shortened the life of a person who could do something for this country, i really want you to succeed in realizing all the plans you still have, i know what you want, that you are actually finishing this book right now, and what it will be about, announce it, that's it actually the book, these are stories from the archives of the kgb, that is, this is the ukrainian 20th century and it is something we do not know. eh, maybe yes, maybe yes, that is, it is from the way ukrainian nationalists cooperated with the british mi-6 special service, went through special forces training and were dropped on landing

planes on the territory of ukraine, maybe about this someone knows little about the participation of jews in the ukrainian insurgent army, so that one of them was actually a political consultant to the chief commander of the upa, and many such things about which we a... either do not know enough or know little, can we even talk about any plans for when this book will be out? i think it's too early, it will all depend on how quickly i work on leave with the health i'm in now, and when the leave ends, in september and beyond, front, front, thank you to you for this conversation, thank you for the invitation to the conversation, for what you do both on the battlefield and on the battlefield... who is ideological, you return to people the historical truth, of which you were the editor and can be excluded, i participate in discussions, even my god, how

do you manage to do everything, dear friends, our guest was volodymyr birchak, sergeant of the armed forces of ukraine, historian, archivist, head of academic programs of the center for the study of the liberation movement and editor of historical truth , and we talked with him. about history and war and about how history, how to make sure that the history of our previous losses does not repeat itself, stay with espresso, thank you for being with us, my name is lesya vakulyuk, tired of the mess in the kitchen, constantly to... sort through the pile pan, to find the right one, you need the savory pro kit, unzip the tv. savory pro pans fold into one another and take up so little

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