there was both surprise and joy, and everyone discussed such a possibility, and understood the risks, and wondered whether it would work or not, but most of us wanted it, well, when we voted for independence, when everyone was in a high mood, we expected better than now, share... with your emotions, feelings in the comments under this video on the radio liberty channel. so, this year ukraine celebrates 33 years since the day of independence. we decided to talk about what conclusions should be drawn by ukrainian society and ukrainian culture power during this time. the main challenge for ukraine now is the war, the aggression of the russian federation, it is obvious, and in this war only one state will be able to preserve its territorial basis, and this state should be ukraine. yes. says

yevhen magda, a political scientist and director of the institute of world politics, with whom i spoke on the eve of independence day, i suggest you listen to this conversation, it is important. mr. yevgeny, ukraine has been independent for 33 years. usually, when we congratulate a person with such an age, we say that this is the age of jesus christ. is there some symbolism here when we talk about the 33 years of the country's independence? probably, only in what... our faith in ukraine should be strong, and maybe in part of the sufferings that our state is currently enduring, but let's not forget that 33 years is still a time from the restoration of our independence i am sorry that in the 21st year, when we celebrated 30 years, when there was a wide campaign, when a lot of people talked about it, just as the state came out of the covid pandemic, then...

we got out of it a little, we didn't talk about restoration of independence, there may be disputes among historians about how and how correctly we should throw away bridges from the ukrainian people's republic and so on, but in any case we are for ourselves, even if not at the state level, but we must realize that the ukrainian statehood has a long tradition, it is not 30... 3 years, it is 33 years plus, but there is another fact, the fact that we gained independence in the 91st year, many call it a miracle, yes, maybe even the birth of jesus christ is a miracle, but it is not a miracle, but a logical consequence, and about this, for example, the historian oleksandr zinchenko very interestingly talks about how ukrainians contributed to the collapse of the soviet union.

danylo mokryk talks about it, other historians talk about it, who find the necessary arguments and historical documents for this, but another important point is that we got a chance to be independent in 1991, it was unique and remains unique, the fact that we it was used, even if not 100%, even if it is not perfect for us today. state, it could not be perfect after centuries statelessness, this must be realized, but another reference point, here i will now go into my favorite paradoxes: on february 24 , 2022, when on the eve of a large-scale russian invasion, almost everyone told us: you will lose, you will collapse, you will no longer be there, we after on february 24... of the 22nd

year, all together, as a state, as citizens of the state, regardless of where people are, showed that this state is not indifferent to us, that is the first impulse to protect, to contribute to the state so that it is what we what is needed is a ukrainian state, that is very important a serious thing, actually, well, it's not the first time i'll say it, but it's important. ukraine won the hybrid war against russia, because the large-scale invasion is evidence that the kremlin realized that they cannot destroy us with hybrid tools, so that they do not talk about our internal confrontations, that they do not talk about poroshenko, zelensky and others. that is, they could not and they were forced to make a bet on more expensive in all respects, on a more difficult one. for russia,

that is, more than 600,000 killed and seriously wounded - this is a huge price that russia pays for trying ukraine for its efforts. to attract, but it is not attracted and will not be attracted, it is already obvious, can history repeat itself here in this sense, when we are already talking about modern ukraine, which has been independent for 33 years, as well as modern russia? i believe that in the russian-ukrainian confrontation , only one state will be able to preserve its territorial basis, its territorial component, and this state should be ukraine, there should be no doubts. this does not mean that tomorrow we will go to the border of the year 91, but in this struggle, i think, it is ukraine that will endure, because it is more motivated, and the recent events of the last weeks in the kurdish region have shown this, it has not one

generation, but a large layer of people , who are ready not only to die for ukraine, to kill for ukraine, this is important. before this, our work on mistakes, compared to the liberation contests of 1917-1921, when millions of people also returned from the fronts of the first world war, made a cut from the rifle, cut the cheneli field, sat on the stove without joining, by the way, not to the unr, not to the reds, not to makhna's units, and then the bolsheviks came and strangled everyone one by one. and the fact that there is this work on mistakes, i think it is very important, evgeny, when we talk about, you mentioned without a doubt that the ukrainians became their own defense, however, we are now in a situation where 2.5 years of a full-scale

invasion, and mobilization under the new legislation continues, are ukrainians today at this historical stage ready to continue to fight, to sacrifice their lives? not to strangers, no just to thank someone for what he sacrificed, and to fight with his life, and is there not a threat here, in your opinion, because society may not be ready for a long-term war, for exhaustion, as they are probably preparing for this in the russian federation. well, we are not talking about the fact that the war will last 2-3 weeks, right? and the main bearer of this idea, for some reason, is not in ukraine. this is also an illustration. this too. er evidence that the society is more mature. i think that an illustration of the mood within the ukrainian society is how kyivans and not only kyivans came to disassemble the fragments of ohmadite. well, that's it, that's spontaneous, the truth is, no one had time to appeal, not the president,

no one, well, people just understood that it needed to be done. that is, uh, tens of thousands of people, they just come to the ranks. of the armed forces, because it is necessary, because they realize, well, if you want, this is a historical burden, there is a lot to be said about the fact that ukrainians are really genetically skilled warriors, of whom russian propaganda has made peaceful greeks who are not good for anything capable, but it's not true, it's not like that, and we, we're at war with an opponent who surpasses us in all indicators. that is, i repeat the thesis, we were told, you will fall apart, you, you are the same as them, we proved that we are not the same as them, and here is a fairly successful raid of ukrainian troops in the kursk region, who could have imagined before it began , who could

have imagined in july that the troops of the victim country would enter the territory of a nuclear power that became an aggressor, and they would feel quite confident there. it seems to me that no one, no one spoke about this, neither in the west, nor in the east, anywhere, that is, this is a lesson, just another the question is that the world community does not learn the lessons that children from school should bring from september 1, that they are given assignments today for tomorrow in not all subjects, however, in the same way as the subject of modern world geopolitics cannot. .. be a task today for tomorrow, if we talk about internal challenges, because the state has been independent for 33 years, probably ideally the state and state institutions, these are courts, this is the constitution, laws, state apparatuses, should

work stably like that swiss watch , and regardless of who holds certain positions, who occupies certain cabinets, i did not accidentally mention... the centuries of statelessness, this is a really serious challenge for us, because we could not live within the borders of our own state some of the moments of formation that our neighbors lived. and so we seem to do everything from a clean sheet, but it seems so, we have the opportunity to borrow experience, in principle, they do not take money for this, however, for the fact that we will borrow someone's experience, and we have to convert, if you can say, to create interest in ukraine interest in ukraine, interest in independent ukraine, returning to what is happening inside our state, but it seems to me that some things are very simple, see. we must do everything to make the law work, therefore illegal enrichment in

wartime should be called looting, flirting with russia should be called treason, inability to make some decisions should be called political impotence, these things, well, that is the guarantee of our survival, we really have. there is no way to hold elections, we we have to continue to live with that local government, the verkhovna rada, the president who is, we can only change the government, that is why i say that we need a government of victory, and the government of victory must be formed by a coalition of victory, because we see that the existing monomajority is fiction, it is fiction not the first day and not the first month, it is an opportunity to reformat, that is... you understand, this is a russian thesis: the war will erase everything, it does not work like that in europe, and those

who do not understand this should look at the fate of people who became collaborators hitler, i'm deliberately exacerbating this in order to make the comparison too catchy, but the quisling was executed, the prime minister of norway, who sang with the hitlerites, peten, the hero of the first world, who collaborated with the hitlerites, was sentenced to life imprisonment "imprisonment, that is, this is evidence that we must work effectively, it is never too late to return to the order that is determined by the constitution, laws, and this is the way to certain, well, i wouldn't say political... rehabilitation, because there is no solution, which must precede the political one

rehabilitation, but it is at least a way to continue political life, because we must be aware that after the end of the war in the elections, there will be a volcanic renewal of the political establishment, and people will come who either fought, or will say that they fought, given the state critical thinking in our society, i have no extra illusions about this, so we have a lot to do now, because we are no longer talking about victory in two or three weeks, we do not know when it will be, and we all have to work for it, who can do this, well, it seems absolutely obvious to me, what are the challenges for society, what today society must understand in order to evaluate the actions of the authorities, properly critically analyze what is happening and possible... to suggest to officials, the president , in which direction

to move, if something went wrong according to society's opinion. it seems to me that three simple principles: live by the law, be yourself, work for victory, that's all, these are three things, well, things should be simple if we formulate these principles complex constructions, then... they simply won't be remembered, to be yourself, to live by the law, to work for victory, it's as simple as possible, and it's available to everyone. evgeny, and finally, political scientists are not asked about their own emotions, often, mostly it is only a political analysis, but 33 years of ukraine's independence, until this date, with what thoughts, with what emotions, what is in your heart, when.. .father's date is approaching, when you think about it, i live in a state that

is going through very serious changes, you know how to feel like an organism that has a fever, which can have a high temperature, but when this organism is healthy, it gives a lot of reasons to be proud of itself, so ukraine resembles... a professional athlete who has serious injuries, but there are great achievements , but i think that our main achievements are still ahead, and... of course, we have to live up to them. thanks to all our viewers for being with us, a little announcement next week starting august 26th. literally 5 days we take a break from the air, and then we come back to you, as well as radio liberty's youtube channel, as well as espresso, at 9 a.m. on weekdays. thank you once again for being with us, my name is kateryna nekrecha, i and the entire freedom

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morning broadcast, our morning marathon of participation on the espresso tv channel. thank you for being with us, thank you for joining us collections, we have already collected 11,000 qr codes for today, here you can see it, this is the same qr code that we show on the whole screen, just now, i remind you that we are collecting for three brigades, the third separate assault unit, 110 and 47 are waiting for drones and reb systems from us, we want to collect as much as 3.5 million and with this money to buy all the necessary equipment and weapons that will destroy moskal and... we can do all this only with with your help, we have already started the collection of the second ten, three hundred and second million, oh how i screwed up, dear friends, listen, we are moving little by little, we are in our collection, we already have 1,212, 761 hryvnias, for yesterday we collected 41 00 with you today 11 so far, but

our ether is still going on, so please join us, and... while you are inform, we will talk about what is important, and yuliya klymenko, people's deputy of ukraine, joins us, however, by phone. mrs. yulia, we congratulate you. yes, good afternoon. we know that you have some celebrations in the parliament or somewhere today. by chance, on the occasion of the national flag day of ukraine. yes, we just did raised the national flag. of ukraine, ah, by all people's deputies and invitees, and now we will have a meeting soon. i just wanted to remind you that we don't have, for example, a law on the national flag and... what we celebrate is on the 23rd, sorry, you know, who cares, i'll keep reminding you until, until this will not change, it is only a decree

of president kuchma, president kuchma, who was not a very pro-ukrainian president, i don't know, until recently and did everything to make ukraine turn into some kind of uzbekistan or kazakhstan, and was in the so-called secret union, as it was called then, this customs union with the russian federation, and you know. for example, another leader of another country, the former post-soviet republic, thomas ilves from estonia, today, literally 8 minutes ago, wrote on twitter that 85 years ago, today, germany and russia signed a pact, not the ussr, he does not write this, germany and russia signed a secret protocol with which they divided europe among themselves, and this invasion, which happened only 8 days after this signing with brought.

crimes, now they are not talking about germany, but that the descendants or children of those who committed these are all about russia, today they have very little, so to speak, regret for what happened, russia still glorifies the cold-blooded killers who are acting today in ukraine, and threaten. to all of us in europe at the same time, i.e. what the ex-leader writes about, for example, and to estonia, that this day is very important precisely in this dimension, we have a million dates that are related to the ukrainian flag, in particular in recent history , there is no august 23 on such a date, nothing at all has happened since august 23 that would relate to the ukrainian flag, despite the well-known error that continues to be broadcast by tsn vrazaye and other channels, it happened on the 24th, we know this... for sure from the confessions of those people who that flag will be brought down on the 24th, it was recorded on film, it was recorded on the video that yaroslav kenzar was filming at that time, well, you

deputies, finally do something about it, because this day should not be obscured by the flag, this day is for a different interpretation, maybe we will think, i think my colleagues who are more let's say so, historically... they actually have an understanding, i think that we will definitely think, maybe we really need additional legislation to settle this issue. well, i just don't know what date is more important than august 23 for modern ukrainian history, it's hard for me to imagine, except for august 24, 91, but august 23, 39, in the 20th century, is what turned the tide the entire history of not only ukraine, but... ukraine became the place where the greatest price was paid. we are to tepe, that's how ukrainians died, yes in the second world war , the most ukrainians died, if you look, and we actually,

after the second world war, there were only 27 million ukrainians left, so this is such, you know, an analogy with modern, modern war, not to mention that it was just yesterday russians celebrated the day of the national flag, and we do it in a pig's voice only because kuchma... lived in such a russian wake, why we continue to do it is strange to me, and i'm sorry that on the holiday i'm a little bit with my own, you know , with that gzimdzeny old man a spoonful of spirit, well, but it seems to me that it is important, because if we do not remember important dates and important history for us, then in the end it all ends up in defeat and at the front, well , in the end, i absolutely support it, it eventually repeats itself what happened to the russians. the russians continue to try to divide and rule the world. ms. yulia, i also wanted to ask you, yesterday, on the eve

of independence day itself, the united states of america embassy issued a warning that there could be provocations on independence day, and called americans to leave ukraine. when we think back to the full-scale invasion, and those days, the days before, the days, and the weeks and months ahead, it's overwhelming. invasion, the americans also gave such warnings to their employees of diplomatic missions and to citizens to leave the country, do you, the people's deputies, also have any warnings about possible attacks on the government quarter? well, let's say this, if you look historically on the website of the american embassy, ​​then they made the same warning in the 23rd year, in fact they make such warnings. regularly, realizing that on such dates, on such dates as important and sacred for ukraine, the russians will try to attack us, but

in fact, let's see about... girls, they do it every day, and therefore there is no need to relax, if there is anxiety, you have to go down to the bomb shelters and not, regardless of what day it is, so maybe they will attack, yes, we have such small warnings, or rather there are warnings, but i think that this does not radically change the picture in which we live the last 2.5 years, we can have shelling every day, and it can be on... deadly shelling, so i urge everyone to go down to the bomb shelters and observe, let's say, react to the alarms, i also want to say that today also happened, maybe , one of the landmark events, the law banning the moscow church, signed by the verkhovna rada this morning, and went to the president of ukraine, so it might be interesting to hear it.

listeners and viewers, that's why we're actually waiting for the president's signature right now, ugh, ms. yuli, well , to be brief, we still have a couple a moment for this, and what other draft laws are already overripe and overripe, have long required consideration and have not been put on the agenda for a very long time, so yes, if you were to identify the first three now, well , i think that the first, the first the priority is... the prohibition of the opzh, which is still flourishing in our country at the local level, both local level deputies and deputies in the verkhovna rada hall remain, they were simply renamed, but in fact they have their mandates and they came from the opzh , in the verkhovna rada there are somewhere around five projects, bills, with by different, let's say, mechanisms, but as for the prohibition of opz, at the local level and

in the parliament. levels, i think that this is such, you know, a long overdue step, because we understand that it is pro-russian narratives and pro-russian ideas, and everything that penetrates us, it penetrates precisely through these people, i would actually say , that it is big enough, we have a second draft law on decolonization, it has already passed the first reading, there is no way it can be born in the second reading, it is decolonization. bridge and renaming as well we have a big block, this is the deprivation of rewards for traitors to ukraine, in fact, these three bills, i think, should be considered as, they are not three, there are many more of them, they are in different compositions, but i mean three of these ideas should be considered , and it's all about national

security, really. well, thank you very much, ms. yulia, yuliya klymenko, people's deputy of ukraine, was with us, she told us about what is happening in the verkhovna rada, they finally signed a law and regulations for the president's signature there on the banning of the russian orthodox church. dear friends, the russian orthodox church, in the meantime, gentlemen, you know what i wanted to say, if i had visited twice, i would have immediately written the law on colonization, decolonization, colonization, and isk. to push the hero of ukraine, no, seriously, i say this seriously, because the heroes of ukraine are a terribly soviet narrative and a soviet title, this is the hero of russia now, the hero of the soviet union, people, well, when we finally break all these threads that look like the ropes that bind us to that russian world, the very concept of heroism and the hero's narrative, which is presented in the soviet homosoviet style,

is very, very, very bad. as this expert in uzuk very well said yesterday that the problem of russian orthodoxy is simply that it dehomonizes it, and this hero narrated the same - the hero of ukraine, but this is a long conversation, dear friends, and now time for news, kateryna shirokopue appears, katya, congratulations, you have a word, congratulations, lesya, congratulations andria, we will tell our viewers about the consequences of night attacks in ukraine, as well as operational information... at the front, so wait news time on the espresso tv channel. kateryna shiropoyas works in the studio. leading the ukrainian people through the centuries.

celebrations on the occasion of the state day took place in kyiv. flag he congratulated the ukrainians on the holiday.