not the post-soviet soviet economy, but kuchma - the director of the plant, a completely different person, but what happened in general: kuchma was supposed to become a partner of yegor gaidar, but became a partner of viktor chornomrydan, because during this time gaidar left his post, acting as the head of the government of the russian federation , and viktor chornobirdin became the head of the government of the russian federation, and there suddenly incredible prospects opened up for leonid kuchma, he and viktor chernomer are simply the same. this director, this director, this one is married to a russian woman, this one is married to a ukrainian woman, that is, in fact, such soviet directors, this one respects this one, this one respects that one, they quickly got along, chornomyrden opened kuchma’s door to boris yeltsin, and everything was clear there too, yeltsin really could withstand a long feast, leonid kravchuk was a complete stranger to him , that's all that yeltsin loved, hunting, squirrel, sauna, that's

all, well, kravchuk was different, he was a party ideologist, he could have been a partner of oleksandr yakovlev, let's say, gorbachev's adviser there, and kuchma with yeltsin could afford to solve global issues in such a way, of course, there it was very important to be able to drink as much as the owner drinks and not to fall with his face under the table, by the way, i have to say that i, being not prem as the prime minister of ukraine, and of course as a journalist, i trained because that's when i took. let's say there was an interview with islam karimov, it was a bottle of cognac for one person and you can imagine that you are sitting opposite the president of the country and you , the problem here is not that you will fall flat on your face, but the problem is that you you can do something to say what you will later regret for years, if you manage to regret it, that is , it was such control, which, by the way, weaned me. from alcohol, because i stopped

getting drunk, it was just such a psychological shock that after all these interviews, i have not used alcohol for years after that, because i know that it does not affect me, i just it was the appearance of alcohol, i must be like this soldier, but kuchma and yeltsin could still relax with chornomyrdin, and they quickly saw that he was a much better figure than, say, leonid kravchuk, who started there... to blow some kind of sovereign ukraine, who from their point of view simply led them around the finger, because he started to introduce his own currency, build his own army, left the cis joint command, did a lot, what about that they did not agree in bialoveskaya pushcha, that is, he began to build a real state, they did not want this, neither yeltsin, nor chornomyrdan, they wanted this union of ukraine, and therefore, by and large, they decided to support... leonid kuchma, when

it was 1994 , kuchma was the chairman at that moment ukrainian union of entrepreneurs and industrialists. kravchuk never found a prime minister who could be a reformer. at that time , vitaliy masol, the last prime minister of soviet ukraine, headed the ukrainian government. so kravchuk got lost in these economic slums, absolutely, that is , to appoint masol after kuchma, it was an absolute disaster, if kravchuk was the leader... on a large scale, economically, he had a whole train of reformers, i would say, and why was there no power scenario? well, why wasn't there a power scenario, so we understand why, from what side, from the side of the russians, why did they not do what they did, for example, against georgia, yes, we understand that they saw a perspective in the fact that it is possible to negotiate with those pro-communist or neo-communist elites, yes, well, because there landlord kuchma, it was easier with him. agree,

were they not ready to fight with such a large system, well, it's one thing, like georgia, it's smaller there, one thing is to support civil wars in central asia, and the other is whether there is moldova with transnistria, yes, but the second thing is this forceful, open scenario that they went to in 2014, and why do you think that they did not prepare, they prepared, in georgia, they did not fight with georgia, they fought for control over abkhazia, south ossetia, in ukraine they were crimea and the black sea are needed. here they were also preparing, the election of mishkov was a preparation for a power scenario, so mishkov appointed yevhen saburov, a citizen of russia, as the prime minister of crimea. myshkov appointed viktor minin, a citizen of russia, a person connected to the special services, and it is obvious sharpened precisely on the power scenario, the head of the administration of the president of crimea. i have known viktor vinin since 1988. he was a people's deputy of the ussr from the komsomol,

he had nothing to do with ukraine and... crimea, so when i saw him in the administration of the president of crimea, i immediately understood what was going on, that is, they were preparing this scenario of secession of crimea. what happened in 2000 14 14 back in 1992, but they did not go for it, because they decided that they were getting ukraine, they acted in parallel, from one on the one hand, they were preparing the secession of crimea, on the other hand, they were preparing the overthrow of leonid kravchuk. kravchuk went to early presidential elections in parliamentary elections. if he had won the presidential election, i think that after these elections... the secession of crimea took place, but he lost the election. i saw with my own eyes a scene that was quite telling for me. on the day when it became known that kravchuk had lost the presidential elections of ukraine, i was at

the reception that the then french ambassador in kyiv gave in the ukrainian house, and it was supposed to be a reception that, from the point of view of teams kravchuk celebrated his re-election for a second term, it turned out that it was an acceptance of kravchuk's defeat, and the entourage of the new ukrainian president leonid kucha, i.e. dmytro tabachnyk and some of his cronies, came to this acceptance for the first time in an official capacity. everyone understood that dmytro tabachnyk became almost the second man of ukraine in this situation. but, strangely enough, viktor minin, the chairman, was at this reception. so viktor minin communicated with dmytro tabachnyk as a subordinate, since i knew both of them, huh, and viktor minyan was generally my, let's say, good friend at the time, i was the first

journalist who even interviewed him as a people's deputy of the soviet union, such things are not forgotten, as you understand when you are a young person, taminin from me and did not hide that he is absolutely, that is , somewhere there, conditionally speaking, i say. well, but the task is in the right hand of a ukrainian , someone there, minin was already ready to cut the president, of course kuchma, of course he did, i was at kuchma's presentation of the certificate of the president of ukraine, minin was the main one there i am an observer, and i will also remind you of the people who were in kuchma's headquarters at that time, this is kostyantyn zatulin, yes, the head of the institute of cis countries, a people's deputy of the russian federation, this is vyacheslav yegrunov. also a supporter of such an imperial democratic russia, a people's deputy of the russian federation, kuchma's greatest ally from among the russian politicians chornomiroval of the russian union of entrepreneurs and industrialists arkady volsky is also a person

connected to the special services, the former commandant of nagorno-karabakh, and these people are quite serious treated it, they treated the idea of ​​recovery. in this joint industrial complex of ukraine and russia, this was the idea of ​​kuchma and volsky, and when i wrote an article in both moscow and kyiv, that it is impossible, because the ties are broken, because the market economy, because it simply cannot to be, then kuchma and volskyi made statements in which they said that i was an agent of someone there, a ukrainian nationalist, and that i was undermining the stability and friendship of the two peoples, i remember it well, it was a joint conference dedicated to my humble person, here is the key question, that is, they... or their appointed people to the highest political ecumen, who had a direct influence on the first persons of the state, and this applies not only to ukraine, but to our environment, that is, we are also talking about belarus, and we are talking after all, about russia, and lukashenko on the day that kuchma also won the elections, that is the key story, why they did not start

certain preparatory processes that would end, for example, with the introduction of russian occupiers, for example, into certain settlements , or crimea, or the deployment of those... well, look, they sincerely believed that they and kuchma would agree on everything, and that's why they started preparing this big agreement. kuchma, when he entered the office of the president of ukraine, he was and he is. he is a very intelligent person. i would say so dangerously, i would never wish anyone to be leonid kuchma's enemy. in terms of generally his reaction to the fact that he, how he generally treats his enemies, but very intelligent. shrewd, shrewd, well, after all, this is the director of a huge defense plant, in he has a manner, it still exists, so to speak, to pretend that he is a simpleton, ugh, but he has never been one in his life, he just successfully or unsuccessfully in different periods of his life played this favorite ukrainian manner

, political, fooling around, fooling around and everyone thought very often that it was purely a coin, i remember that when leonid kuchma first came to this hotel of the former central committee. and everyone tells me: oh, you have such a prime minister, and i already talked to him, i know that he is not such a prime minister, i just understand that he did not want to answer to any question, and he decided to show them that he is like that, well, i am like that, i am like that, he is not like that, this is a huge problem of all people who communicated with kuchma, to think that he is like that, he is not like that, and that, bye thing is the problem of tabachnyk, to think that he is like that, but then , in addition to tabachnyk, there was also medvedchuk, yes, but anyway... kuchma somehow managed to escape from complete control, but i don’t know if he wanted to appoint tobacconists, medvedchuks and

so on further, which were tabachnyka he wanted to appoint, because he believed that it would be a person loyal to him, but was it imposed on him , and this was part of his agreement with moscow, well, moscow even supported him during the presidential campaign, his advertising was broadcast on soviet television, it was expensive, expensive, not from the point of view of money, from the point of view of the fact that our compatriots with you were watching moscow television, not ukrainian then, but... one way or another, he is really him, but he immediately turned to horbulin, and horbulin was one of the key players in terms of preventing the seizure of crimea then, precisely horbul and marchuk, of course, he started to create balance sheets, tabachnik, razumkov, horbulin, tabachnik was eventually kicked out of these balance sheets, moscow, moskkovskaya, all this gobkompaniya, all these hidden ones, he simply kicked them out, they got nothing, and in the end for several. ..years he had such a yeltsin regime, and i think

that it would have worked that way, because this regime, in which he was based on his personal relations with yeltsin and chornomyrdin, but in 1999 there was a disaster, ugh, chornomyrdin lost power, his best friend, yeltsin left politics at the end of 1999, and kuchma had to work with putin for the last four years, and putin hated him, hated him, because for him kuchma was the embodiment of this yeltsenism, he saw that kuchma was absolutely building ukraine for himself , and not for him, but for putin, ukraine was a mistake that kuchma built such a system in which you can't climb into crimea, because there is a vertical, ugh, but in fact an authoritarian vertical, he... but he tried to push, remember yataesh, yes, yes, and putin, as soon as he became president, he began to act against kuchma

by means of their favorite special operations, this chain mail, this promotion of all these things that moscow used after the melnichenko films, and it was really they who began to impose medvedchuk on him, as a person who can be a mediator between him and the kremlin, because he himself can't mean with them, they at least... wanted to appoint the same medvedchuk as kuchma's successor, and medvedchuk too, and kuchma understood this, kuchma felt it, that's what he did, well, he tried to nullify, to nullify medvedchuk's influence on himself, i think what he tried to use medvedchuk and medvedchuk's ambitions precisely with the model of a parliamentary presidential republic, the idea there was very simple, if vitsya becomes my heir and me. there will be nothing to catch and you will have nothing to catch, and by the way, this is what happened when president yanukovych,

our ukraine yuvchenko supported this project, but there were several people among them, if you look at all these surnames, you can see that the majority of them , andriy derkach is now in the city of heroes of moscow, he voted against, being a representative of the whole the elites already, i.e. putin, medvedev and yanukovych , are failures. kuchma's idea of ​​a parliamentary presidential republic and we returned to it only as a result of the first maidan, so kuchma in this regard was always in such a situation of fighting putin for his own self-preservation, and he tried to use his connections with the yeltsin family, he believed that they had some influence and would help him, do you remember? that when the yeltsin center was opened in yekaterinburg, putin, medvedev and

kuchma were there. kuchma was invited as a friend yeltsin's family, already after yeltsin's death, but their influence was decreasing, and even more so they could not actually do anything when it came to foreign policy, which was already foreign policy. after the crimea, i met with lenin danilovich, i asked him if he communicated with ... uh, putin after the annexation of the crimea. he just went crazy. he said that he had never spoken to him in his life after that, that it was for him, as for the president of ukraine, because he is the president. ukraine, this is a personal insult, what happened, he will never do in his life to talk to these people, well, personally, that is , it became clear to him that these personal contacts, which they had, were severed. i remembered this episode, the three of us once met, leonid kravchuk, leonid kuchma and i, at

one of the diplomatic receptions, and leonid kravchuk and i were just talking, kuchma was already the head of the delegation. at the negotiations in minsk, and he behaved quite harshly at that moment, and kravchuk and i discussed that it was somehow strange, we had always known him and in general it seemed that he was a person who was exclusively on in his own way, somehow concentrated and very soviet, he behaves this way with russians, just like that, as a ukrainian nationalist, and all his articles are recent as a ukrainian nationalist, and so on. and then leonid kuchma came up to us, asked what we were talking about so cheerfully, i am honest with him, i have always been honest with them, after all, they are the president of ukraine, he said that we are talking about him, that we wonder what he has there is a state instinct, and here leonid kuchma says, i am surprised by the other that it took you both 20 years to understand this, and this, by the way, aphorism, which again speaks about the mental abilities of this person, but look, that is

, paradoxically, that is, i do not know whether it is the influence of the sacrum, whether it is the sacrum of power, whether it is a feeling of... responsibility, or god forbid, well, but maybe the finger of god , we don’t know how all this mechanics works, but a communist party figure becomes a ukrainian statesman, we are talking about kravchuk, the soviet communist director, who was surrounded from all sides by various medvedchuks, tobacconists and so on, he becomes a ukrainian nationalist and such a mini -atataturk, so on and on according to the list... and we are now seeing the implementation of the army-language-faith concept, well, literally so, and at one time i remember very well our conversation with you, when volodymyr zelensky won the elections, you said that he had no other way , if he wants, he will be the president of ukraine, he will be a ukrainian nationalist and the army, language, faith will be

on his table, i remember that before the elections i said this and many people reproached me, how could you say such a thing, that who... in ukrainian the president was not elected, he will go this way by the way, that's why you contributed to zelenskyi's victory, i didn't contribute to anything, i just said that there is no alternative, because the ukrainian president has a simple choice, either to be the governor of the kurt region, i'm sorry, or to be the president of ukraine, and nobody wants to be governor, because by the way there is no guarantee that you will retain the governorship, that is the problem, that when you are elected president of ukraine, it is also a certain crime, but yanukovych wanted to become the governor of the kurdish region, by the way, he flew out like a cork from a bottle, not anymore not the wishes of moscow, and the wishes of the ukrainian people, that is why it is the only vector, and indeed leonid kuchma, no matter how he tried to get closer to moscow from different political vectors, i remember that at the end of his presidency he even signed this agreement on a single economic space, all the same, the system, i would say and and and society and

nomenclature turns out to be stronger than their idea of ​​all this, well, you mentioned about the tobacconist, medvedchuk, but there were... statesmen volodymyr gorbulin yes, man with statist thinking, i think that few people doubt that yevhen marchuk is a person with a statist mindset, so with a very complex system of personal connections, well, this is obvious for a person who spent his whole life in the special services, but one way or another, he is a person, for which ukraine was a real priority, and here again, just imagine, evgeny marchuk 90 in 4.95 heads this commission, which... deals with the black sea fleet, ugh, and the main condition of moscow, if you want to have any relations with it at all, you have there for life to leave the black sea fleet there in the name of yevhen marchuk, olek saskavets, the first vice-premier of the russian federation, one of the main figures in this system of special services, a person

related to this ee korjakov, the head of yeltsin's security and almost the owner of the then. of the russian regime, and soskovets does not manage to beat marchuk, although he seems to completely understand how to do it, he is ethnically ukrainian, he has a clear understanding of how the ukrainian system works, but he turns out to be powerless, there is a fixed deadline, and then already in times putin and medvedev it is necessary to literally undermine all these agreements with the kharkiv agreements, that is, all the same, all that they planned in yeltsin's time, it could not happen only in... it turned out that there can only be an instrument of force, those politicians who, well, are not just force, and a frank meat grinder, that is, russia did not just go to war against. countries with possible war preparations against western countries, others on the continent, there against the baltic states or against poland. russia went into the meat grinder for itself, that is, they did not expect such a number

of two hundredths, that is, as far as i understand, when they began to forbid the use of the word war, that is, to try to replace it with the term svo, that is, they were afraid of the number of corpses that they had created, which returned to them, but from the other side. this means that maybe they will be ready to go further, that is, when there are no other scenarios, neither economic, nor diplomatic, nor any other, there remains only not just a force, yes, a force stretched in time, well , there is a seven-year war , 30-year war, century-old war, eternal guilt, it's people very primitive, they could have gone the other way, and it is not known what would have happened, they pushed away all those people who told them all the time, even after the election of putin, do not go by force... the way, you will not find anything good here. viktor chornomyrden said that it was in 2004. he told vladimir putin and dmitry medvedev that there is no need to put pressure on

ukraine, it is necessary, it is not necessary to impose yanukovych, whom they hate, on them. he proposed a completely different candidacy, on which moscow had to rely. no, yanukovych. volodymyr lytvyn. ugh. volodymyr lytvyn. ot. and he actually... he said out loud that volodymyr letyn will be an absolutely normal, loyal partner, well, he will be the president of ukraine, but he will not generate such trash, but therefore agree to yushchenko and then make a rematch, uh, supporting, let's say lytvyn, or lytvyn, the chairman of the verkhovna rada, give him the opportunity to strengthen his authority, forget about yanukovych, he about no, they needed a person who would just be, who they would hold in their hands, what... what is lytvyn? well, do you know what lytvyn is? it a person with whom you have to sit down and talk, negotiate for a long time, and there is no exact guarantee that you will agree with him, that you

will agree on something, and even if you do agree, it will be interpreted and implemented in some way, well, because he is a politician, as he is, well, chornomir didn't know how to conduct these conversations, and putin doesn't know how, that's the problem, putin's behavior is erratic, call me dzek yanukovych, father, i'll strangle you, huh. "let's do what they said, and this one, of course, he really liked yanukovych in this and that plan, he liked yanukovych, because for him yanukovych was just a person who should prepare power for medvedchuk, that is, zek should hand over power to an agent, period, the history of ukraine is over, yes, well, but in fact the history of yanukovych is over, well, let's hope, the history medvedchuk, that there will be no return, but also putin and the kremlin, they are stubborn idiots, they constantly tried to believe. to give one or another negotiating card with the participation of medvedchuk, that is, they really consider him an outstanding expert, so on issues of ukraine, at one time, as far as we understand,

they had all their plans to prepare for a full-scale invasion of ukraine, they were also preparing in circles associated with medvedchuk, associated with derkach and not only with them, and they believed that they have a so-called operational plan for the capture of ukraine, the capture. of the ukrainian authorities, but they did not prepare for the fact that they were getting so much blood and teeth, they were literally getting the north of ukraine, which was fighting there, they did not expect them, they did not expect that everything would start burning from the ground up of heaven, that is, and here we are talking about, well , what an idiot you have to be to believe that those people are lying to you with all the nonsense they presented as their interpretation of ukraine, ukraine's readiness. which people and so on to any scenarios, that is, they bring them back again, that is, the impression is that in the kremlin , well, they do not study or they are not given to study, well, they do not study, it seems to me since the time of

ivan antonovych, this is such a thing, but on the other hand, what are medvedchuk's strengths? medvedchuk is not a ukrainian, but a russian apparatchik. what the ukrainian apparatchik differs from the russian one. the ukrainian apparatus technician discusses in the first person. these or other things so as not to lose power, but in principle he tries to provide the first person with more or less adequate information about what is happening, the task of the ukrainian apparatchik is to influence the first person and interpret the information he provides, ugh, and this is how everyone behaves the heads of the administrations of the president of ukraine, who had some influence from the conditional dmytro tabachnyk, by the way, who was so authoritative for the first time head of administration. to andrii yarmak. interpretation of real information. in moscow , it's like that, it doesn't work. in moscow, you need to work with information that

the client wants to hear. ugh. uh, that is the first one, that is, they go to the first one, knowing what they want to hear, yes, if you work differently, you just lose everything, that is, your job is to give the customer the information that he likes, and then act on his instructions more or less close to reality, well, this is a different approach, huh, and this is an approach that is very often precisely doomed to disaster, that is, if you are given... an order to capture kyiv in three days on the basis of this information that you give to the client, then you cannot capture it in 3 days. all you can do is introduce troops to some territory there and hope that you will get something there in two weeks or two months, and there are many such examples, and medvedchuk all the time gave, and gives information to putin, that putin wants to hear, putin already exists, there is no ukrainian people, this state does not exist, zelensky betrayed us.

there was no, there is no, and so on, in varushchena taka yes, and plus it's a lot of money, you get paid for it, imagine some sociologist, some yevhen kopatsky, who is preparing sociology in ukraine, i don't know if he is preparing now, but he was definitely preparing before 2000, in the 22nd year, they should already be there good numbers and correctly interpreted, because if you bring the numbers, the bad ones will not pay you, or they will drive you away with some stinker because it is the kgb. "they are arranged this way, i don't understand why, they always provided the party apparatus with exactly such figures, and when they themselves found themselves in power, they somehow took it for granted own weapons, it seemed that they should understand that this is unreal, they were working with unreality all the time, they deceived party officials very often, huh, but they turned out to be completely hostage to this line of behavior, by the way, we know this story which allowed yeltson. to create the cis

and abandon the soviet union, this was also sociology. galina storovoitova met with yeltsin before the referendum on ukraine's independence. he was asked what he would do, she was an adviser to the president yeltsin on national issues, what is he going to do after december 1? and yeltsin said that he was not going to do anything, because he could not imagine that the ukrainian people would vote against the union with russia. imagine that this is not storovoitov, but viktor medvedchuk. ugh. immediately brings to yeltsin the figures that 80% of ukrainians are against the act of independence, and on december 2 yeltsin thinks, so what, something must be done, maybe troops are sent there, something they did not vote like, maybe it is a falsification, galina storovoy, who was not medvedchuk, was just there by a conscientious, professional person, killed, by the way, keeler we still do not know who killed her and why, well, we understand that it is

about the kgb, because she was not in the kgb. because she did not work for the kgb and did not follow kgb methods. well, she says: i have sociology, boris mykolayovych, and more than 90% will be in favor of independence. and here yeltsin says, so we have to do something, halyna vasylivna, let's think, if ukraine leaves the soviet union, what should we do to somehow maintain our ties with ukraine? well, this is a different approach. if you surround yourself jerks who just want to make money, then you become putin. well, accordingly. we can draw a certain projection, that is, we understand that this one is, i don’t know, a rusty icebreaker, which is controlled either by degenerates or idiots, that is, who got involved in the war, that is , this trajectory does not foresee changes, or is there still a feeling that the the other, this or that narendra modi, or this or that joseph biden or this or that, i don't know, some other collective brain, world, global,

economic and so on, he can... direct.