putin, thank you very much, oleksandr shulga, head of the institute of conflict studies and analysis of russia, was in touch with us, we thank him for joining us on sunday. now we will have the next story, we will go to a commercial for 5 minutes, after 5 minutes on the commercial we will continue to talk about this fool and this telegram, because everyone from all sides tells me that this is very important, because it.. . communications, this is media, and this is one of the links of the great war between russia and ukraine, and we will talk about this a little now, first about the ukrainian view of all this, and then we will move to paris and talk to alla lazareva, who often advises us on french affairs, all this will be after advertising, first people's detat mykola knyazhytskyi, then alla lazarev from paris, advertising.

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telegram network on the occasion of the fact that the founder of this telegram, mr. durov, was arrested in paris at night, well, late yesterday evening. and we will now see, i hope, with mr. mykola knyazhytskyi, the people's deputy of ukraine, who devotes a lot of time to this very topic, made a film on this occasion about this telegram, and why it is dangerous, what is this danger, and we hope now to see a few excerpts from this film, and then to talk, because mr. mykola has also now organized a bill on the activities of such networks. and then we 'll talk about how to do it, how to go between the drops so that you can leave telegram incompletely, without something, whether it's possible or impossible, but that's all after we watch a little excerpt, good health, mr. mykola, thank you for finding time for us,

and while you're watching, make a wish, because two nicholas is always useful to make a wish, movie, who pays for all this? telegram attracted all investors privately, so it is impossible to get a complete list of them. the media learned about only a few: they are kiwi founder serhiy solonin, co-founder of wimbildan davyd yakobashvili and oligarch roman abramovich. two of the latter were sanctioned after the russian federation invaded ukraine on february 22. one of the four public managers of telegram is ilya perekopskyi publicly demonstrates closeness to the russian authorities. here is perekopsky. joined the panel discussion held by the prime minister of the russian federation, mikhail mishustin. in september 2023, russian senator viktor bondariv expressed concern about the appearance of news channels in whatsapp and noted that previously such a function was possible only in the telegram of the friendly russian federation information space.

the president of the russian federation, vladimir putin, also spoke positively about the cooperation with telegram. for the relationship and power normally interact. the telegram of the vrf was fragmented. blocked in in april 2018, but in june 2020 it was unblocked. roskomnadzor positively assessed the willingness expressed by the telegram founder to counter terrorism and extremism. the culmination of these mutual compliments was the write-off already in 2024 of the debt due to fines that the russian authorities had previously imposed on telegram. instead, telegram blocked 12 of the 15 channels of the wagnerites during the prigozhin rebellion, after the assassination of navalny... 400 opposition channels, the russian government and the russian telegram channel, like two heads russian eagle. we see the clear cooperation of the telegram administration with roskomnadzor, well , the russian roskomnadzor and with the fsb, because

when the fsb needs to block any telegram channels on the territory of the russian federation, there in dagestan, in bashkiria, just of the russian opposition, then the tv carries out the instructions, instantly. there is also no shortage of indirect evidence of telegram's work in line with kremlin narratives. in a recent interview, durov admitted that he de facto helped spread anti-vaccination fakes, which were actively launched by russia during the covid epidemic. live based on the principle that we do not have a direct document where it is written that the fsb signed an agreement with telegram on the exchange of information. it is obvious that we certainly do not have such a document. but there are too many facts that show that... they are interacting, and therefore, if we look at this situation from the point of view of the risks for ukraine, the risks are extremely high, so in this situation , the country should take care that telegram did not have such freedom of action in ukraine, and in principle, ukrainians used it less. the most important thing is provided by law: if

telegram or any other messenger does not respond to the ukrainian state, it can be removed from the ukrainian state itself, from the ministry of regional administrations. these are dozens and hundreds of institutions that communicate with ukrainians every day and actually impose on them very often unverified messengers. this is normal world practice. in canada and the united states , authorities have already restricted tiktok. and the european commission opened proceedings against this chinese social network for violating transparency. the supreme court of spain banned telegram. four media companies accused the network of intellectual property theft. currently, 19% of spaniards use telegram. russia wants to sell its trojan horse to europeans as well. recently, the czech special services exposed a large-scale network of the fsb, which operated under the cover of the voice of europe website and spread disinformation, bribing european politicians. its curator was viktor medvedchuk, so they actively encouraged installing telegram.

europe does not want to let russia's trojan horse behind its walls. unfortunately, ukraine has already done this, but it is not too late to correct the situation. i know how to protect national security without limiting human rights and freedom of speech. our state should know who the ultimate owner of such platforms is. here, for example, viber and whatsapp are registered in the eu, and therefore comply with the european act on digitalization, but telegram does not. is not registered either in ukraine or in the countries of the european union. the ukrainian state knows nothing about the owners of the telegram company. network administrators refuse to contact and, for example, delete information that threatens the national security, or distributes pornography. ukraine cannot control servers, traffic, content, or personal data, that is, absolutely nothing. my bill requires transparency. if this is how youtube and facebook work in ukraine, why can't telegram work? only. for one of the reasons, it is not about business and not about information, it is propaganda and ipso,

the most important thing is what is provided by law. if telegram or any other messenger does not respond to the ukrainian state, it can be removed from the ukrainian state itself, from ministries of regional administrations, these are dozens and hundreds of institutions that communicate with ukrainians every day and actually impose on them very often unverified messengers. this is normal world practice. canada and the united states have already restricted. in tiktok's authorities, and the european commission opened proceedings against this chinese social network for violating transparency. the supreme court of spain banned telegram. four media companies accused the network of intellectual property theft. the russian telegram is the same threat to the state as russian church. and president zelenskyy should also allow his deputies to support our draft law. the trojan horse of the kremlin must be thrown outside the walls of our state. mr. mykola, i have such a clarifying question, i know that you know, and i constantly repeat it,

i am not in the networks, i am a very small specialist, but when you say that telegram was banned in the united states by local authorities, such authorities, any government, ministry and so on, this means that we can, we cannot influence the content of the telegram, the origins telegram, we can in... only in the sense we cannot say telegram: you don't talk about it, don't post pornography, it will still get there, no matter how we try, that is, someone, some pornographer can put this pornography, then we don't have it on weekends, on weekdays, that is, we then the ministry forbids watching telegram and in this way, well, if we limit the negative influence, i understand correctly, if i phrased it correctly. question, mr. mykola, well , it’s a little bit wrong, in america they restricted tiktok,

the principle is the same, but it was tiktok, like in many countries, so it doesn’t matter if it’s tiktok, or telegram, or facebook, or youtube, well, you don’t see pornography on youtube or facebook, right , no, i don’t see it , you don’t see it, it is in the telegram, and because of that , the essence of the law is that the ukrainian state, in the person of the regulatory bodies, in this case the national council of ukraine on television and radio... which according to the new law about the media regulates not only television and radio broadcasting, but the internet, newspapers, everything related to the dissemination of information, the state should have the opportunity, should have the right and opportunity to turn to the telegram and say: listen, here you have hostile information from the country of the aggressor, instructions on how to kill ukrainian children, for example, and obviously that in such a situation, telegram should... react and take this information, or engage in some kind of regulation itself,

because if it will engage in some regulation accordingly, it itself will not allow what is there, if there is no such contact with the network there will be, russians, drug lords and drug dealers and pedophiles, because other societies do not use it, because they are representatives of these societies, because they want to have verified information, and we ourselves planted ukrainians on... the network, moreover, the law does not provide for a direct prohibition networks, because this does not require a law, we had an example when the national security and defense council prohibited the distribution in... a contact created by the same durov and his classmates, and in principle it works, this does not require a law, but unfortunately, our nsdc does not do this, then i, as a legislator, together with my colleagues, proposed the way that legislators can do in accordance with all european norms, the european digital act, not to prohibit it completely, but to prohibit the state from popularized,

and that state officials for reasons of national security do not provide s... data, as well as those who demand personal data, to a network whose servers are located in russia, which is unprofitable, eldar mortazin, also a russian expert, literally stated today, what telegram is so unprofitable that it is subsidized by the people i talked about in the film, maybe someone else, to the tune of 600-700 million dollars a year, why do they do this, and because it gives them access to all the private information of the russians , even the location, of all ukrainians. who are there and spread their information, which harms ukraine in war conditions, and ukraine , on the contrary, advertises this tool, so i ask you, at least not to advertise, mr. mykola, you have painted such a picture, it is really dangerous danger, these are not toys, i just listened to you now, i think, why did you so subtly or not so subtly hint that

let the president allow his deputies to vote for this law, what is the question? why the authorities do not want or do not want, or delay, or do not want to pass a law that will improve the state of affairs in ukraine, so i would say, well, let's say this, part of the authorities, because the security service, the main intelligence agency, they generally support this idea , and they themselves talk about it, and films and interviews with these people who they say that there is a huge danger in this, but there is no political solution, why, because the government, the political government, the political wing of the government, there is some part, they decided ... that it is possible to use anonymous telegram channels with such wide distribution to to fight with your enemies, to spread lies about the opposition, and no one controls this, you can't remove it, you can't check everything, about independent journalists, to compromise these journalists, and we see this all the time in our society, they stand out for this shadowy budgets, that is, they made it a political

tool, which is a very big mistake, you can't use someone else's political tool ... the enemy, because now it will help you, and then it will turn against you, and i hope that the president understands that, as well , how he understood the threat of the russian church, and i can only thank him for calling on the deputies to vote for it, and it happened, i believe that he will do the same with russian networks that pose a threat to national security, and i also i emphasize once, we don't have it the path of prohibitions, although the path of prohibitions is possible in war conditions, i have nothing against it, but we... within the limits of our powers, literally one minute, mr. mykola, and closing telegram completely is also dangerous, well, what you are talking about they said, banks, and television, and this, and that, and that, and that, that is , we must find this to pass between the drops, i understand you correctly, banks, banks must be closed, banks must be closed, because people give their money to banks personal data that is received, which is immediately in the possession of russians,

about their wealth, banks should prohibit this, and there is communicating with each other, there is something... reading, well, it should be banned in a good way, but this is not the way of laws, it is not the parliamentary way, it should be done by the state itself for reasons of security in war conditions, the last question, mr. mykola, excuse me , there is simply no time, i know that you still have bills there related to religious activities, and today we heard from the pope that it is not good to close the russian orthodox church, you literally have a minute to say something to answer the pope , you know, sviatoslav, the head of the greek catholic church church, said very wisely that this is not really the church, but the spread of enmity, these are people who bless our murder and declare a holy war on us, the pope, who defends them, is clearly on their side. in other states, there are laws that limit the activities of the russian church, as in latvia, for example, which are much stricter than this, but

the pope of rome is silent about it, he will teach when cyril calls to kill ukrainians, he should have said it, and i think so. .. ukrainian catholics and greek catholics from him are waiting, therefore this statement by paperymskyi is clearly a mistake and even support of our enemy in the war we are waging. thank you very much, mykola knyazhytskyi, the people of ukraine, we talked a little about the pope and the fact that he is against the ban of the russian church, and we spent more time talking about the telegram and the arrest of the leader of the telegram mr. pavel durov in france, well, right there and then. lazareva, the deputy editor-in-chief of the magazine ukrainian week from france, joins us, i hope, and she will tell us what we have in france, good health lady, that there about it. what is he there, what are they accusing him of, what are the rumors, what are the gossips, what are the newspapers writing, what is the television showing and

so on, this entire mass of information about this telegram and about this pavel durov, i promise you, first of all, the french press stylishly suspects him of because he deliberately surrendered, because he may be a fool, but the man is quite intelligent. and perfectly understood that since he has a french passport and since it is in france that he can get to play, due to the fact that he refused to cooperate with the security forces, to provide them with information about possible terrorists there, possible radicals, possible pedophiles and other such not-so-sympathetic persons, then he very much risks arrest by arrest, and accordingly, if he ... went for it, writes the french press, then he knew what he did, and he probably doesn't really want to play for 20 years, and obviously his french colleagues think in this way, he wants to somehow

hide from some bad influences from his homeland of the russian federation there, or from somewhere else, well, this is all speculation of course, because as far as i know, the first judicial, judicial the first hearing should be tomorrow, that is, we will ... know more, but in general i want to say that the french do not use this telegram very much, much less than we do, do not trust it very much, and i know that it is more so, as a messenger, just call, but do not read any channels, do not subscribe, for example, the french press is not represented in telegram like the ukrainian one, french official structures are not represented there at all, no elysée palace does not post anything there, no macron says anything from there , then... then they have others mutually not with the telegram, well, we will see how this ip will end with the arrest of durov. that is, ms. alla, we still do not understand whether this fool is for the whites or for the reds, that is

, the discussion from the 18th year or earlier, that only russians are kind of good, they say, no, he is a democrat, a liberal, everything is freedom of speech, freedom of business and so on, and others say, no, i'm not a facebook user, and what's there to talk about. and what you are telling now also does not answer any questions, this is what the french press writes, that he wants to hide from the russians in france, but he seems to have agreed a long time ago, when it was closed, and then it was opened once, and just now mykola knyazhytskyi told me that they forgave him some debts, and he works in debt, and every year he owes 600 million. debts and they are covered by someone and the plane we showed it was not bad, i have flown on private jets two or three times, four or five times in my life, this is so much more than the

ones i have flown on, this is such a multi-room private jet, this he is not so small, then i sit and think, so who is he, how is he, what he, where, he, already about him, not about telegram, mykola knyazhynskyi convinced me, convinced me that telegram should be limited, or banned, or somehow... reduce its influence, but now this is about its leader, so he and i wonder what is being said about this in france, in paris? well, i unfortunately don't have that exclusive information of who he is, i'd be happy to share, but i know just as much as you do, but from what i read, what i can see from the french, they they don't have such a high opinion of him, they think he does certain cooperation with the russian special services, which is why he did not want to cooperate with the western ones, perhaps. and that he plays a lot of complicated games, again, my french colleagues write, and this is a very dark horse that does not comply with some requirements

of the european market, no, does not go for the transparency that is expected from users of such messengers, for example telegram, from the owners of these messengers, that is , his reputation is so-so, i want to say that he, well , if not... has nothing black and white, but there are many shades of gray, then his shade the gray is quite dark, again, i am talking about what the french media gives, the french media gives, ms. alla, but is this news or is it not news, because the russian media, the opposition, the pro-government, immediately shouted that there it is were arrested, i was listening to a conversation between one good russian and another good russian last night. and the presenter said: "oh, look, they were arrested here in paris, that is , for them good, bad russian, disgusting does not matter, for them it news, and in france, these are the first columns of newspapers."

this is the first news on television, did it even get anywhere, somewhere somewhere, i specially prepared just for the broadcast and watched what was available, it is more in the news genre, mostly like that it's short enough, with the comments also so supported, but without piety, without any such, let's say in the volan on the topic that how is the freedom of speech oppressed, such a thing so far... fortunately there is not, well, again, if the french are quite discreet about the telegram, so they must be have their own reasons for this, and i think that they are just very hygienic with the messengers they use, also okay, now about internal french problems or not problems, ms. alla lazareva will tell us if it is a problem or not , this is a problem, ms. alla, regarding. and as if macron

does not want to make her prime minister, and as if he is then threatened, if he does not do it, then something bad will happen to him from his side, the left parties will do, in short, what is the fate of the french government? well, this situation has hung capitally, that is, if macron. at first he said that until the olympic games are over, he will not sit down for these negotiations at all, now he still sat down despite the fact that the paralympic games are starting today, and the negotiations are going very hard in principle, because the french are absolutely not ready to give in, they really don't like and don't have a culture of compromise, and here's the fact that we have broad coalitions there, wax coalitions, the fact that ukrainians really like to walk

between drops, or they don't like it, but they still... walk, the french do did not learn, them we need to go to the courses, well, but they don't know about it, because what is happening now, the left still hopes to promote this lucy caste to the position of prime minister, although from the very beginning, we, by the way, talked with you about is that macron was not at all excited by this prospect, and this, although an official of a rather high level in... she still belongs to the extreme left forces, which do not inspire much piety in the french leader, and so she was politicized recently yesterday, seems to have offered such a compromise that they are not claiming any minister, only to make her prime minister, and in the circles close to macron, they say that it does not suit them either, because anyway, if she is a member of this party, she will follow

party discipline, this one. .. jean-luc milanchon, who is the leader of the party, and who is quite such a toxic person, and also practically very flexible in relation to moscow, well, flexible - i put it mildly, but significantly, let's say, he is such a connector , connected with russian interests in france, so the prospects of her being appointed still very, very foggy. no, it is unlikely that macron will go for it, now those fellow members of her party, unconquered france, threatened to impeach macron again yesterday, but they do not have enough strength for this, they do not have so many people in the parliament, their french faction is not an absolute majority, they they have a majority, but the relative one is not enough, and other left-wing forces, they do not want to support them in this, and they say that there was

a tweet... by the leader of the socialist party, olivier faure, who said that first let's figure it out, finally we will prove to the mind everything that concerns...