and what is the world like for two hours to keep abreast of economic news and sports news, two hours in the company of favorite presenters, presenters who have become like-minded to many, as well as distinguished guests of the studio, events of the day in two hours, vasyl zima’s big broadcast, a project for intelligent and caring, in the evening for espresso. events, events that are happening right now and affect our lives. of course, the news feed reports on them. however, it is not enough to know what is happening, it is necessary to understand. antin borkovskyi and invited experts soberly assess the events, analyze them, simulating ours future. every saturday at 13:10 with a repeat at 22:00. studio event with anton borkovsky at espresso.

i welcome you, dear tv viewers, to the air of the tv channel. today we have a conversation that is worth hearing, we will also talk with the president of ukraine, viktor andriyovych yushchenko. we welcome you. i congratulate you. in fact, the full-scale war has been going on for the third year, and the war started by russia, the aggression started by russia against ukraine, has been going on for the 11th year. if you are talking about now, ukraine defended its independence during this period, the subject. sovereignty and issues only in the return of those or other territories, or is it a matter of defending and choosing both subjectivity and independence? it seems to me that if you make such an excursion in 30, 33 years, then a miracle will happen, i think that not just a lot, but i think most of the people in the world, i would ask them to find them on the map of ukraine. well, they would look for it

on some other continent, but today being a ukrainian is beautiful, proud, starting from the highest politicians, especially in europe, everyone pays attention to the fact that it is not just a nation, it is a cool nation that is filled with principles that are enviable to many. obviously, we ourselves understand that during almost 300 years of this moscow rule, where everything national, everything identical was excluded from us, we were accustomed to foreign heroes, to foreign culture, to foreign custom, to foreign memory, to foreign church and so on on and on, there is no end to it, but we still raised our heads in 300 years. remembered that we are a nation, that we had

one of the largest states in europe, which was 800 years before any muscovy, in other words, we are that course of national the establishment was so learned that from generation to generation they passed on not just this dream, not just this dream, it's like genetics, it was already transmitted in a spiral. to each subsequent generation, and each subsequent generation had its own leaders, i have many times in polemics, in discussions, here i give an example, in the 20th century, to be more precise, from november 17th to august 91st, we proclaimed six times independence in different... tats

six times. and look, carpathian ukraine, it lasted for a day and a half and on she was taken away from us in the red field. the bandera state lasted almost three days. listen, well, six, six times. it says a lot that this is a code, this is a nation's code. and that is why today we are talking about 33 years of the latest independence. in fact, you know, this is our longest national journey in the last 300 years, from the cossack state, from vegovsky, and this in itself is already surprising, and if we remember that 300 years of statelessness, we were deprived of the right to speak ukrainian 171 times, to have our own the alphabet

to have your own writing, remember taras in your dream hryhorovych, but we are not talking about the middle of the last century. taras hryhorovych to publish a primer in the ukrainian language, everything, you know, is heart-wrenching. we only received our primer one and a half hundred years ago, before that we were not given a liturgy, nor the right to speak our language, our language, nor wear our shirt, god forbid, if ukraine is not dead yet sings. well, magadan, magadan, and there , with white ukrainian brushes in the ceiling, this whole taiga and tundra, so actually, you know, i am proud that such torments are common, i

i think most nations would not have survived, and we also went through the difficult school of our formation. we went through a great amnesia, when after the greatest tragedies in our memory, we had to erase everything with an eraser so that neither children nor grandchildren would remember the greatest human tragedies in europe, and in spite of everything, in spite of everything, you know, we got out to the edge, the edge of this failure, and today have become a state that everyone knows everyone. everyone is proud, i am impressed, as you know, even in europe there are many examples of political, with reference to what a great national the work that ukraine is doing today, the great european work, that ukraine, the bulletproof vest of europe,

that many of what ukrainians do in europe, few have done, in fact, the example and the work that we are doing against the greatest evil in the world. against russian fascism, against the greatest chemically pure evil in general, which can be in today's history, this is the moscow occupation that ukraine is experiencing today, it has become such a page of education for europe and the world, because when to think and give an answer according to... putin's conscience as the world knows it today actually brought up by western politics. the putinization that europe has adopted is a product of the last, well, maybe 17 years, 15 years, when europe mindlessly

paid putin 1 billion dollars every day, violating all the norms that were adopted both nationally and europeanly, regarding energy quotas. in the regional market, disrupting everything, bringing in 1 billion a day, this is of course what led putin's path to schizophrenia, to recklessness, to the loss of the last parts of his mind, when in fact the world appears a version of fascism of the 21st century, this is what happened. on in our eyes, and on the other hand, the feat that our nation is doing today, and a nation that 30 years ago, or rather 35 years ago, when in the 90th year there was

a vote for the ukrainian parliament, the ukrainian nation cast 239 votes for of the moscow bosyaks, and... it was called group 239, yes, group 239, a few more months pass in the spring, march of 1991, when the ukrainian nation is asked, you, you are there for a renewed union, what is this independent ukraine for you? more than 70% of ukrainians say: yes, yes, we are in favor of a renewed union, it is probably still happening there six months to reach 91% by december. of ukrainian, no, no, no, no, we are for a sovereign, independent ukraine, this can be analyzed politically, as in 12 calendar months, the nation of the state, when the flock walked, voted for evil, because red,

red russia, bolshevism, this is a separate a breed of moscow. slavery, which was established in ukraine for 73 years, the time is coming, and we will vote for them again. moreover, excuse me, in 1998, if i'm not mistaken, how many... ukrainians voted for the communist party of ukraine in the verkhovna rada of ukraine? we can formally say that the section of the communist party was preserved in the ukrainian parliament for the longest time. already in europe with a magnifying glass you won't find them, where are those komunyaks? they still reigned in ukraine. and they were not just in the parliament, but were the golden card of the parliament. because of money, they were lured to vote for any law, which... who needs 2.5 dozen votes there, and well

, you have to go to the communists, they sell you at every step, well, to the point that what kind of maturation has gone through these 33 years the ukrainian nation, as we are from that world, about which i don’t even want to talk about which, to be honest, i’m ashamed to talk about, you know, living in europe and at the beginning... of the century, having a terrorist organization of the communist party of russia in the parliament, and yes, there was never a communist party of ukraine, it was a branch of the russian communist party , because the soviet union is russia, it is not yes, then in general you approach the fact that we have passed colossally, colossally big milestones in these 33 years, i understand... how a large part of people can be dissatisfied with something, but in general

you can say, this is great progress, and if y we have this sense of national awareness that we have today, we had it in the 90s, i think we would be where poland is, where lithuania is, even where bulgaria is, even where romania is. no, we would be in a different class of organization, political system, we would have other friends, other partners, that is, we would be in a better place, in the best sense of the word. at the same time, you talk about the fact that in the struggle we are currently waging against russia, and i emphasize the word russia. because this is evil russia, it is not only putin, because putin feeds on one russian

swamp, what is called the russian people is a tool for the legalization of putinism as such, therefore it is impossible to separate this one negative personality, the absolute evil, that is putin, and on the opposite side, the institution of nobility, the people of russia. no, no, he gave birth to putin, he gave birth to lenin, he gave birth to stalin, he gives birth to all evil, but, as it were, i do not want to do a deep analysis of what is being done in russia in that swamp, but i would like to talk more about ukraine , and when you remember the lessons of our liberators competitions the lessons taught by our best minds,

well, for example, like taras hryhorovych, shevchenko, when he writes this, addressing, it seems to me that he stands behind the back of ukrainians even today, and it says: "my beloved country is innocent, in me this word innocent, every time, it surprises me where taras hryhorovych got it." such a deep, apt, and pure word, my beloved country is innocent, for which the lord punishes you, punishes you severely, for bohdan and for the maddened peter. in other words, taras hryhorovych wanted to say, ukrainians, if you do you want to find out where the root of your misfortune is, where it is buried? this is russia, or the fifth column that is forming in ukraine, these bohdans, or

the mad peters or vladimirs, or josephs, no, no, no, it is not as important as, and therefore every national movement we had, it essentially started with one slogan, away from russia, if you want to be happy, stay away from russia, don't go argument. that there is something cheaper, that there is something bigger, that there is something more accessible, away from russia, and therefore, when this picture in history... mykola grigorov felovoy, to whom for years they were not allowed to write, in the end this ukrainian genius reached a dead end, he invites his friends, sister, son-in-law, who still lived in the house, come to me tomorrow, i will show you how to write, they

came, but this one is not realized ... talent, wait for me a minute, went to another room and shot himself, that is, i am leading to the fact that this independence, this sovereignty, this self-awareness in which we live today, this is a fantastically great ukrainian work, this is what then gives such nourishment to various spheres, and necessarily to the material one sphere, in our ee... development, social affluence and others that may come later, but this is necessarily the phase of the state when we become whole, internally consolidated, and we solve those problems that maybe two or three hundred stood as a problem before ours, we will

talk about the economy, because i will be very interested in your opinion, as a person who was once recognized as the best banker. what a year it was, it's true, but there was definitely such a story, and eh, i remember, because i lived in those times and already followed the story of you in the position of prime minister, not just there was, of course, now the war, now is probably the most difficult in the entire period of independence, but before that i would like to ask you, as a person who did not just communicate with putin, he came home, ate borscht, in my opinion, even, and you said a very good phrase that money made him... stupid, that is , material things ceased to have any meaning for him, he obviously decided to go down in history, but i am interested in your opinion on how to stop him, and therefore all of russia, and whether there is, or this understanding reaches world leaders, this individual, as the late kozlovsky said, a prisoner and a writer, he said that this is

more of an infernal personality now, what putin is, of course, i cannot be neutral. speaks about putin, i say evil, i say it as revenge, a reasonable person cannot behave like that in these circumstances, to which he has led the country to step, i think that in 25 years he has created the most unsuccessful project for russia, how to destroy such country as russia, and i am convinced of this that about ukrainian taganrog... about ukrainian bilhorod, ukrainian kuban, well, in one word, it is me i wanted to name a whole series of extreme territories where the ukrainian presence is, it is centuries-old, centuries-old, this is not what we are talking about now, we are not talking about this dimension of geography, we are talking now, if europe, if the world does not

understand that there can be no victory.. . which putin regime remains, that there is no negotiation process, when president putin is sitting in one of the chairs, this is the first sign that you have lost, that you are giving some way to feed this mess, you do not need it, i am talking about the portuguese or about the germans or the french. you don't need it, he will take it tomorrow. in what form? let's not guess now, i just want to say one thing that today, if you haven't solved the topic of security, you haven't solved any of the issues that are on your agenda. and safety is such a thing that knows no boundaries, regardless

of whether you are 600 km, 10 thousand or 1,500 km away. and so... that's why it's obvious that today's world has a big task, how to correctly formulate the definitions of getting out of the war brought by putin. i just want to emphasize one thing, so as not, no, no, there, not to generate any prejudicial discussions, the presence of putin at any conference, the presence of the need for putin's signature. on behalf of the prison of nations does not give the answer to our victory, it should not be left for tomorrow, and then we quietly approach ... to thoughts that, i think, are very undervalued in today's world, i fear, or i am wary that that syndrome, which we

experienced in the 90s, when the president of the united states comes from the rostrum of the parliament, says in 1993 that ukrainians, you are not decide to create sovereignty. and george bush, from whom everyone expected support, absolutely on the streets of kyiv for three months there have been many thousands of rallies for independence, the president of the largest democratic country comes and says: don't you dare to do this, don't dare, to me, and i'm sorry that he drove by - my to kyiv then after moscow or to moscow, well, in any case, it was a visit by road, i know that he... the speech he gave in the verkhovna rada, on the way from the airport to lenid makarovich, well, he gave or theses, or verbally, what he wanted to say,

as if he agreed with leonid makarovich, as the chairman of the verkhovna rada, well , in a word, i have a heavy feeling that today the world has stopped , including the european one at a crossroads, if for... a snowy day, after the end of this war, we see, in the bosom of russia, in the russian model, in its presence on this political field, i think we are making a huge mistake, a huge mistake, we are taking that time out , which putin needs most today, for to then come... to the borders of poland, slovakia, bulgaria, and continue to do the evil deed for which he saw the russian mission,

when, you know, even the same question, where is the end of russia, where, where are its borders, from peter the first we hear such a historical hymn that the borders of russia. where her interests end, good wording, then putin's wording of the 2000s, well, to be more precise, it was in 2006, at one of the language conferences expressed by his wife, reports that were written in the kremlin, and she voiced the position the kremlin, russia ends there, guys, where russian ends. язык for the last three months, putin has been conducting an optional historical course and there he asks

a boy seven or eight years old where the borders of russia end, and the boy tries to remember the geography, to name something correctly, where those borders are, he approaches him like this... by the head, and if he saves him from this impasse, and gives advice to drunken russian nations, remember, russia has no borders, so how are you going with this philosophy, it's not a joke, well the president, the president of the exit country, every word, it is official, and he says that his state, which occupies 1/8, which leads to...

is recognized as an international criminal, at every step in europe , a criminal is wanted, putin and so on further and so on. and we live in such a world, this is a country that has not even been formally accepted as a member of the united nations. well, listen, wonder, wonder, what kind of world is this? so, what i'm getting at is that no one can use the answer with such a russia. today. to sit down with him for negotiations, it means repeating munich in 1938, do you remember when chamberlain flew in, waved one piece of paper and said, i brought you peace on... you were walking, i

worked diplomatically, great, i brought you peace , dela dete said the same thing over there in france, and now we are standing, listen, we need red lines, we need to listen, that this executioner of peoples, prisons of peoples, so to speak, warns, this is a territory where under the cover of colonialism there are more than 100 cor'. nations live where every two years someone's native language dies, listen, we are in a terrible world we are, in fact, and therefore, when in europe they are trying to form some kind of tolerance, that it is possible to make a deal with this evil for several years, this is a very wrong policy, on the other hand, ukraine gives you an example of how to fight for... one's

sovereignty, for one's independence, how is it really possible to be the armored car of europe, in other words, how is it possible to enter the territory of the aggressor's country and force putin to read something from a piece of paper with trembling hands, having gathered his generals and not knowing what to do, it turns out that's how it was you can, here again still, not understanding what it will all lead to, but we understand that ukraine sometimes shows, just such an example to your words that... europe does not know what to do with putin, but at one time, in the battle of pirgavgamela, alexander the great showed , what could be done with the persian empire by destroying an army that was ten times larger, napoleon failed to destroy the world of empires, but the world of empires collapsed 100 years after napoleon, that is, now, without taking a certain step, we will simply drag it out in time, then maybe absolutely, paragraph number one: do not look for a partner in putin, he never will be, he is a profiteer who

will use today's historical position ... in order to knock on your door tomorrow, and therefore, be wiser, although it makes it more difficult, for sure , the things that we say that the answer to how to democratize russia, i don't find it in the answer that there will be one ideal democratic force that will now be supported by 144 million russians. i take this conditional number, there is no such force and there never will be, in the regime of a dictatorship, this force feeds very well putin, his government and his junta, russia's trouble, by the way, is not only possible for russia,

putin's evil triumphs. not not because there are so many in russia and it is so strong, what we call evil, i think in the formula of putin's existence, the strongest point is that in russia there are the most indifferent, and the indifferent, they automatically close with evil, and it, and it triumphs, and it... because of indifference, you know, when you, when you go out on the tver boulevard and stand like that near the monument to the ukrainian prince dolgoruky, you are arrested, when today we are talking about a world that is informational, where billions of megabytes are exchanged in the blink of an eye. memory

more than 1 thousand.