i want to be frank, this applies not only to india, but to any country that would be, that would be positive about accepting the second summit, we will not be able to hold a peace summit in a country that has not yet joined the a communique of the peace summit, well that is, i think you understand it, it's just that no one pressures anyone. yes, but it is logical, but if we return to the visit itself in general and the fact that this visit really took place, mr. volodymyr, how do you evaluate it, here is this visit, its necessity, its importance, conclusions from this visit, was there he is needed, and what is ukraine after all for us, india, maybe other players? the war got, well

, it is clear that this is a logical, important issue for us, and what is the main thing that india got from this visit, please, i think that the visit itself and the time in which it was carried out is very important, such a historical fact, this is really the first visit by the indian minister, well, if i'm not mistaken, the first in all the years of ukraine's independence, well... that prime minister modi is the first - that's 100%. we had several visits at the highest level from ukraine to india, more president kuchm, i think, was in india twice, maybe later, after him, i just can’t remember now, uh, and in general , our contacts were normal, but when this russian aggression started, somehow everything slowly died down, uh , well, maybe we slightly overestimated such a... well, let's say this,

the potentially positive role of india, which it could and we would like india to play such a role in the settlement of this war, or its termination, india took such a, well, neutrally positive position , here the word is positive poverty to russia, although, it seems to me, the most important of this visit is modi's words that india will not support any. formulas or proposals for peace, which will not contain the principles of respect for the territorial integrity of ukraine, that is, by doing so, he indirectly rejected all the plans that were put forward before that, i mean the same chinese peace plan, others, well, in general , he cast great doubt on constantly the words of putin, lavov, other factors of russia, who are constantly following them... about the fact that any

proposals in the future negotiations between russia and ukraine should take into account, well, how do they they say, give us the situation on the ground or the reality, that is , give it to us, and also together with the remnants of the donetsk and luhansk regions, plus kherson, zaporizhzhia, and then we are ready to talk with you, here are the ministers of india, in fact, such ... narrated such rhetoric and rejected it, plus, uh, uh, you asked, what are the pluses for ukraine, for india? well, for ukraine it is a plus in itself, it is that we heard the position of india, i am sure that not everything went into the public space, i think there were serious conversations and in a one-on-one format, in closed regimes, i think that the indian side, our president, other leaders of ukraine, explained us absolutely clearly.

position, i.e., the positive thing is that india went home, or at least he went home already fully understanding exactly the position of ukraine. the fact that this visit took place after his visit to russia is also important, because now he will be able to compare the narratives he heard in moscow and in kyiv and draw certain conclusions for himself. well, it is also important that this visit took place, as it seems to me, and not only to me, so... some western experts believe, from what i read yesterday and today in the western press, that this visit was so quick after the visit to moscow, precisely because the indian side wanted to a certain extent somehow to settle the negative balance that remained after modi's visit , and we remember that he met and hugged putin on the very day, a few hours after the massive shelling of ahmedit, when children died...

many other of our citizens, that is, it was somehow, well, at least it looked quite inappropriate he didn't say anything about it then, but today he, he visited some facilities. in kyiv and near kyiv, he drew attention several times to the fact that the most terrible crime is the death or killing of civilians, especially children, that is, this is a direct hint of what happened in ahmadiyya, ugh, uh, what advantages for india? i think that india is looking for its place, and it should do it as a huge country, well, it is actually the largest country in the world today by population, huh. it is the largest democracy, it is a country that has many of its own border problems with the same china, well , pakistan goes without saying, we have known this for many decades, india wants to find its place, strengthen its role not only in the region

to which it belongs, but also, for example, in eastern europe. not for nothing, after kyiv, if i am not mistaken, minister modi flew to warsaw. and that's all. they say his first visit and in general the first visit of the prime minister of india, well, somewhere in 45 or 50 years, that is, india has not paid much attention to the region of eastern europe until now, and today i it seems that they understood that this is a region of the future, it is a region on which a lot of decisions depend, some countries are already in the eu and nato, some will still be there, ukraine itself is important for india also because, well , again, i i know the latest figures, but... there was such information several years ago, that more than 20 thousand indian students studied in ukraine, this is a very large number, maybe not so large for india, but for ukraine it is a large number, and although now of course, during the war it was all folded up,

probably, well, we have few indian ones left citizens studying, but nevertheless, india sees ukraine as a future for education, economic potential, and transit potential. i just want to clarify, do you really think that... india is looking for its place in the mediation between russia and ukraine because it wants to keep ukrainian potential for itself, or is india more interested in its cooperation in the energy sector with the russian federation. i'll just remind you that

it seems that during april-may of 24, breuters gave this information, india is a record increased oil imports. from the russian federation, if we take into account the information that russia and ukraine may have recently planned some kind of negotiations to prevent strikes on energy facilities, and we are hitting their refinery, in omsk, in particular today, then is that right? mr. modi, in the context of his trip to moscow, kyiv, and now warsaw, was looking for some opportunities to restrain us and our westerners. partners, so that we do not attack russian oil refining, any oil capacities of the russian federation, because india is interested in russian oil in different format? i don't think, well, first of all, you know, our attacks on russian refineries, they in no way concern india, because india

actually buys completely russian raw materials, oil and gas, and it comes, of course, not from the european part of russia, where they get it. our drones, other weapons, and from siberia, eh, and so india very skillfully and successfully took advantage of the moment when prices fell for russian energy sources and began to purchase a record number of these energy sources, that is, india is primarily interested in its own national interests, if it is possible cheaply buy, that's right. on the other hand, we we know that india, for example, does not want to settle in any currency other than its own. group, and you know, this puts russia in a very disadvantageous position, because it already sells, well, in fact, for nothing, this energy to all of india and also receives rupees, which it does not know what to do with, that is, in fact, it can simply buy for these rupees indian goods, i.e. even more, well, increase imports

from india, which are already huge, uh, well, these are consumer goods, as a rule, uh, in this way, i repeat once again, india uses uses... the moment and does it in his own interests, so i don't think that there were any problems in fashion there to stop our shelling of russian mpzs, especially, well, it would be very strange, i'll repeat it again. india, you see, they, they need a peaceful ukraine, because they want to have normal relations with us, we are a huge market for indian goods, including, but it is clear that during the war, what kind of expansion of exports or imports can we talk about, this this is now unrealistic, that is why india wants to do something in order to to stop it all, and india is by no means interested in this war continuing indefinitely, well... we are more interested in that in the first place, i mean, but if there is such a desire in india, and if

the prem' prime minister modi heard our arguments and will listen to them, and at some stage he will become a really real mediator, not one who will take into account putin's interests first of all, but one who will take into account the realities that exist on the ground and the realities of this war, and the realities such that it can be completed only fairly on the... conditions that he puts forward ukraine, everything else, it, will either not stop the war, or will simply postpone the continuation of the active phase of this war for many more years. mr. volodymyr, i would like to talk with you more about the united states of america, and in particular about the now official candidate from the democratic party, ms. kamala harris, the current vice president. but if we speak in general according to the information we have in recent days, firstly, kamala

harris is increasing the distance from trump, that is, if we talk about the ratings, then we see that in fact, according to one of the sociological polls, in fact, she already has 7% more than trump, well, there are different polls, but more than that, the trend is clear, harris gradually, gradually. is gaining more weight every week, and what worries us is her statement about ukraine, about support for ukraine, this is what we have been waiting for, and what she has not spoken about for a long time, so let's listen to what she said , during her speech at a pre-election rally, that if she is elected president, she will strongly support

ukraine. trump threatened to withdraw nato. he encouraged putin to invade countries that are our allies. he said that russia can - i quote: do whatever it wants. 5 days before the russian attack, i met with president zelensky to... warn him about putin's invasion plan. i helped mobilize more than 50 countries around the world to defend against russian aggression, and as president, i will stand firmly with ukraine and our nato allies. but, mr. volodymyr, as i already said, kamala haris spoke for the first time. how much these her statements. and can really be considered straight support of ukraine and is it possible to expect

something more here in the future? indeed , we waited a little for her statement from the side of ukraine, but you know, the explanation for this is very simple, the fact is that, in general , foreign policy issues are far from the first place for the american voter, and therefore, first of all, there are other issues: economy, health care for generations. there is a covid-19 in education and other such insecurities, but it is clear that without the topic of ukraine you will not get anywhere, this topic is becoming today, well , the number one topic in international politics, yes or otherwise, it does not become more true, it has long been, well, at some stage this topic was pushed aside a little by the events in the middle east, but now ukraine is back in the front pages again. well, this is also the kurdish operation, this is of course today's frenzied shelling

of ukraine again, including kyiv, i think that we will still hear a reaction to this, it's just that the time has not yet come, no, all the consequences of this next terrorist step of russia have not been calculated, so i i think that this is only the beginning, these are only the first statements of mrs. haris regarding ukraine, i i think she will continue. will develop this topic, because she perfectly understands that this topic is also of interest to the americans, well, at least to all the western allies of the united states, regarding your question, why... can we expect more, of course, we can and must, because, as at a minimum, she will continue the policy that president biden is currently pursuing, but we all know and understand perfectly well that no one hides this, that some of president biden's steps were too slow, these constant delays, let's say with the initial supply of weapons

after february 2022, then this uh... or even eight months of delay in the congress, well, it's not biden's fault here, but he could, even before the congressional blocking of this began next package of aid to ukraine, he could have taken some other steps that would not have stopped the supply of weapons to us, and it has cost us dearly, so we all hope, and not without reason, that ms. harris will not only continue his line, but significantly activate help mr. volodymyr, unfortunately, unfortunately, time, our time, is limited, thank you for your thoughts, for joining the espresso channel. volodymyr yelchenko, diplomat, former representative of ukraine to the united nations, former ambassador of ukraine to the united states of america. i want to remind you about our

survey, do you think that it is necessary to regulate the action. existence of telegram by law in ukraine, yes, if you think so, dial 0.800 211 381, absolutely free, if you think no, 0800 211 382, ​​similarly, all your calls from your phones, your smartphones are absolutely free, and we are moving on, but andrii and i, i don’t know how andrii, i didn’t have the opportunity to congratulate our viewers, listeners, all ukrainians and... happy independence day, as for me 10 years of our war with the russian federation, every day is a day of independence for our country, and this should be appreciated, for this we should thank the armed forces of ukraine, and in connection with the next anniversary of the restoration of ukrainian independence, the kyiv international institute of sociology held a certain

research on the perception of this day by ukrainians, and this is exactly what we will now talk about with volodymyr panioto, president of the kyiv international institute of sociology, kmis. mr. volodymyr, congratulations, glory to ukraine. good evening, glory to the heroes. congratulations. congratulations. therefore, for the absolute majority of ukrainians, independence day is the most important of all non-religious holidays. this, as we understand, is evidenced by the results of the kmis survey. today, independence day ranks third. among all generally holidays after christmas and easter, it looks like this picture. mr. volodymyr, it is always interesting to talk about sociology and about the research of relevant specialists in terms of certain changes, evolution of thoughts and consciousness of society on one or another topic. tell me, please, what

this study has illustrated for you, what conclusions can we draw? it should be said. that the processes in ukraine were still moving in the right direction, but they were moving quite gradually, and the first such impulse was in the 14th year, when there were the first quite significant changes, but now after the start of a full-scale war, just these changes, well colossal, ukraine in general. all the time they made their main geopolitical choice there, as a country that is located between europe and russia, and we had fluctuations, we changed presidents from pro-russian to pro-european and vice versa, and even in

the 14th year there was this is the first significant change, when the majority... was definitely oriented towards europe, but it was such a not very reliable majority, because regionally the east and south were against europe and very strongly against nato, and only now the regional difference has practically disappeared in geopolitical ones orientations, and there have been various ee... other changes, well, with regard to geopolitical changes, almost 80% now support joining the european union. and joining nato and the difference between the regions is not very big, and this also applies to holidays, which are one such indicator, we know what a big holiday it is

for the united states, and for ukraine, it was not a big holiday, if in in the 13th year, independence day was considered a favorite or important holiday by only 12 percent of the population, it was somewhere at the end, next to constitution day and labor day, and even now this the situation has changed, and the percentage of those who consider it the most important holiday has increased from 12 to 64%. and this holiday rose from the bottom to the third place, because in... us, traditionally, easter and christmas occupy the first two places, among favorite or important holidays, and this applied not only

to independence day, but to other state holidays, actually here is defender of ukraine day, it was also 10% when it was first founded, and for... 58%, it comes right after independence day, and even constitution day was also four, and it became the 28th, well, the day of the constitution was the last holiday in general, and it seems to me that our deputies are to blame here, because they treated the constitution that way, every political force that came to power changed the constitution... on their own, as it was convenient for them , and such disrespect on the part of the verkhovna rada led to the fact that the people, too, the population of ukraine also

treated him that way, but now this holiday is somewhere inside the list of 28%, that is, state holidays have all increased, mr. volodymyr, let's move on from the context of the holiday to... the text, probably ideological or historical, yes? to which in general, i would like, i would like to talk about the context, perhaps, the perception of ukraine in the soviet union or in the soviet union, that is, your sociology, it says that the majority of ukrainians believe that ukraine was deprived of statehood in the composition. the ussr, in particular, this opinion was expressed by 54% of our citizens, let's show, please, you can see, yes, at the same time, currently

26% of our citizens believe that ukraine still had a certain statehood, and if we if we talk about the context of changes, then in 2013 36%. of our citizens believed that ukraine was deprived of statehood as part of the ussr, and at the same time, we see that 40% in the 13th, again in the same year, believed that ukraine still had a certain statehood. what does this indicate? that is, nevertheless, we see that there is a certain difference here, a different interpretation, a different vision of ours. citizens of the position of ukraine within the soviet union, but this, this figure is changing, this sociology is changing. what does this

show, are we still going to what the majority of our citizens will sooner or later recognize the soviet period as the period of occupation of our country, occupation of our people from the outside. well, russia, in fact, which then simply had a different name, uh, well, this question was inserted because we are interested in whether there is a consensus in society, on some historical problems, on the attitude to the past, and in we also had several such interesting questions that were asked there. to stalin, or whatever, people voted for kravchuk now, but they voted, bony or yes

chornovola and... in principle, these are questions of what are the indicators of statehood, to what extent it can be said that there was statehood, these are concepts that scientists have to solve, and i think that you are absolutely right that what is now increasingly people believe that ukraine was deprived of statehood, despite the fact that ukraine was a member of nato and so on, this shows that people... nevertheless, now they better understand that in many ways it was such an illustration or a show such, that is, that it was unreal independence, not real statehood, but as some kind of imitation, and it is interesting also here is the question we asked about if there was. first of all, now you would be in

the 91st year and you can vote for leonid kravchuk or vyacheslav chornovol, who did you vote for? and in the 1991 elections, leonid kravchuk was chosen, 62% voted for kravchuk and only 23 for chornovol, almost three times less, and now the situation is simply drastic. have changed, and only 14% would have voted for krovchuk, and 86 - for chornovol, that is, the attitude and understanding of what is useful for ukraine, what is not, and what path it should choose, it has changed very much, well, on unfortunately, this did not happen in 1991, but only after all the events that took place in

ukraine. and especially the last, last terrible war. mr. volodymyr, very briefly, you know what caught my eye in this study, ukrainians' support for ukraine's independence remains relatively stable. kmisu data indicate that it has hovered around 90% for the past 10 years. today, it is 87%, but the share of those who seek unification with russia has decreased from more than 15 to almost zero. it makes me very happy that it is almost to zero, but here it is 13% who are either undecided about independence, or would like dependence on someone, but not on russia, and that is, how to interpret correctly, how correctly, what they want, what, what these people really think, what is their position, on unfortunately, we have a part of the people who, regardless of anything, or the war, but...

still have a positive attitude towards russia, and we also see that a certain part of the people who are in the occupied territory, they are, well some do not voluntarily, some forcibly, but some part emigrates and goes to russia voluntarily, receive money, and besides we have some more. percent, we conducted special experiments that show that 6%, ugh, we definitely hope you will discuss this phenomenon, which, unfortunately, is present, and it is important to recognize and investigate it next time, mr. volodymyr, thank you very much for your input to yeter, volodymyr panioto, president of the kyiv international institute of sociology, was in the new week, and very soon you and i will talk about the hottest topics of the current day, but for now, a word to colleagues from the bbc:

russia attacked the territory of ukraine with more than 200 missiles and drones in the morning. 15 regions were under attack. the kremlin says that targets for energy infrastructure are known, and what conclusions can be drawn. after the most massive attack of this war? we analyze in today's edition of the bbc: i am olga polamaryuk. the attack, which russia had been planning for a long time, is how today's massive shelling is described in the office of the president of ukraine. it all started at night, the russians released drones, in the morning they hit with missiles. 15 regions were affected, yes.