dmytrouk was able to get to moldova, and from there to italy, although the ukrainian authorities say that the deputy did it illegally, there is still no answer to the main question, who let him escape? this is what we are talking about today at svoboda live, my name is oleg galiv. faith is eternal, faith is glorious, our faith is orthodox. the last speeches of people's deputy artem dmytruk in the walls of the ukrainian parliament were on august 20 of this year. in ukraine, the rada voted to ban religious organizations based in moscow. dmytruk opposed the ban, because he is an active supporter uoc-mp and already at the weekend, the ukrainian media reported that people's deputy dmytrouk crossed the border in odesa and left for moldova, and from there to italy. he did it illegally, the sbi claims. the state bureau of investigation is currently investigating all the details of how this border crossing took place. border guards and several civilians have already been searched. what is interesting: dmytruk managed to leave before the office of... the prosecutor general declared him

a suspect due to attacks on a law enforcement officer and a military man in odesa. dmytruk himself on instagram and other social networks, he wrote that no one had given him any suspicions, all the cases were allegedly made up and thus the authorities allegedly, i quote: continue hunting for those who disagree with the regime. my colleagues investigated the activities of people's deputy dmytrouk, so i suggest you take a look. until november 2021, artem dmytruk was a deputy from the servant of the people party. until he was expelled from the faction and the committee on law enforcement, now he is a non-factional people's deputy. during his career, he became famous for a number of scandals, including him was an opponent of vaccination against the coronavirus in the 21st year, and also showed affection for the ukrainian orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate. for example, he was among those who refused to support the draft law on the banning of the occp, which was made public by bigusinfo journalists the day before. the investigation, in which

it was said that artem dmytruk cooperates with the priest of the opcmp serhiy chertylin, who is suspected of a number of crimes against ukraine. in addition, in february of this year, dmytruk posted the bail of the founder of the lavra, who was suspected of justifications for russia's aggression. zmytruk also became famous for the use of physical force. thus , in january 2022, he arranged a fight in the odesa city council in order to enter the meeting hall. then three guards were injured. he distinguished himself by laying flowers at the building of the trade union building in odesa, where on may 2, 2014, a group of pro-russian activists died during a confrontation with euromaidan supporters. on august 25 of this year, the state bureau of investigation notified dmytruk of suspicion for assaulting a law enforcement officer in odesa and attempting to steal a weapon the department does not mention the name of the deputy, but it is clear from the case materials that we are talking about artem dmytruk. according to the investigation, the suspect, while in

odesa, together with accomplices, attacked a policeman who was on duty, intentionally injured him and tried to take a weapon. in another case in kyiv, the deputy had a dispute with one of the citizens, during which he struck the man several times, including in the head. according to the expert's opinion, as a result of the illegal actions of the people's deputy , the victim was injured of medium severity. now. the non-factional people's deputy of ukraine is not in ukraine - reports ukrainian pravda with reference to a source of law enforcement agencies. it is noted there that he left the territory of ukraine on august 24 , the day before the announcement of suspicion, then flew to italy via chisinau airport. rfe/rl journalists tried to contact mytruk, but his mobile phone number is no longer in service. nardep is also unavailable in messengers. the day before, dmytruk wrote on his tv channel that he was allegedly in favor

they want to arrest him by order of president zelenskyi. he claims that his houses in kyiv and odesa were to be searched and arrested. later, he called on people, i quote: to go to their churches, pray for the country, for the enemies, and also called to support metropolitan onufriy of the uoc. in turn, the state bureau of investigation confirmed that people's deputy artem dmytruk illegally crossed the border in odesa and entered moldova. anastasia potapenko. radio svoboda's svoboda live program is currently being joined by ihor friz, this is a folk singer a deputy of ukraine from the servant of the people and a member of the committee on legal policy. i congratulate you. greetings, good evening. mr. yuri, thank you for taking the time. well, the first and main question. as you think, in the incident with deputy dmytruk, someone could have informed him in advance that on this particular day he would be charged with suspicion and, accordingly, because of this , he left. well, if he himself voiced it simply. the fact that he became aware that there will

be appropriate investigative actions related to the handing over of the suspicion and conducting the hearings, well surely someone informed him, it is unlikely that he has free access to the materials of the criminal... proceeding, or it is unlikely that the law enforcement officers, who directly intended to carry out the introduction of relevant investigative actions, called him back, told him, well, someone of course informed, me, for example , is more sure of this, well, someone is who, if you are talking about the fact that the law enforcement officers, who intended to hit him with suspicion, obviously did not do it, he will find out from someone, that is , there is a leak somewhere in the law enforcement system, because of which this happened , or who could to report, well, more likely , most likely, probably yes, no one else can disclose information, except for those persons who directly take part in this or that criminal proceeding, well, i simply have no other options, well, neither you nor i they did not know about this, however, it is unlikely that we could recruit artyom dmytruk and tell him that the law enforcement officers will visit him,

the secrecy of the investigation is precisely what presupposes that an exclusive circle of persons will be familiarized with certain investigative actions and procedural , let's say so. processes that, excuse the taftology, that take place in one or another criminal, in one or another criminal proceeding. if such a downpour took place, how high are the chances that the person who disclosed this information, for example dmytruk himself, will be found. oh, i absolutely do not know this, and it seems to me that the fact that the telegram channels announced in the morning or yesterday that the president is holding a meeting with the security forces is precisely for... those reasons regarding the first possible disclosure of information that compiled a list of investigations, possibly from questions the crossing of the state border, how it happened, because i also know from the public discussion from the information of journalists

that criminal proceedings have also been opened precisely for crossing the border, and the persons with the help of which and with whose participation the crossing of the state border took place without the appropriate permission of her... let's say, at least the leadership of the verkhovna rada, well, yes, the verkhovna rada announced that people's deputy dmytruk would not go on a business trip there, after all, you yourself reminded about the president, after dmytruk crossed the border, everyone got excited, zelenskyi announced that he was convening a meeting of the heads of law enforcement agencies, in order to find out about the traitors who escaped from ukraine, in fact, where they are, and so on, the law enforcement officers started proceedings, is this not an attempt to jump, for example, into the last car, but surely this departure could not be foreseen in any way before... see, well, departure in general, any departure cannot be predicted, if a person has made a decision for himself, he will try any- in what ways is this solution to implement or implement, i am taking into account

that we are setting up contact with mr. igor friz, a member of the verkhovna rada, we are actually talking about the crossing of the border by my colleague in the parliament, artem dmytruk, who, according to the media, is staying today. italy, before that he crossed the border in odesa, as they say, in the dbr illegally and entered the territory of moldova. dmytrouk was informed by the prosecutor general's office about the suspicion of fights, in fact, that is why this investigation is currently ongoing, and an investigation into how he even managed to go abroad has been added. well, you are in the comments you can write your thoughts and impressions about what you saw and heard, how do you feel about the fact that people's deputies, in fact, in such an illegal way, if it is proven, cross the border and... in general, what do you know about the activities of artem dmytruk as an example , i will remind you that he is called an active supporter of the pcp, he himself spoke constantly at the meetings of the parliament, where he criticized the efforts of the ukrainian authorities to ban religious organizations with a center of influence in moscow, and therefore this is actually one of the topics that we will still discuss today, a topic

ban of the uocmp, but while we dwell on the activities of artyom dmytruk, people's deputy of ukraine, and what we have as of now, what is known, i will remind you that the dbr. is investigating how he managed to cross this border, in particular, the question is to the border guards, to those people who could have helped him in this, respectively, to find out that, daily svoboda live, every day on the air, you can follow our broadcasts, on our broadcasts, and on those important topics that we do not discuss here on the broadcasts, and in the comments, write what you would like to talk about to learn from our next broadcasts, it is important, because in this way you and i continue to keep our finger on the pulse and understand which topics are important. for you, i would like to remind you that we are discussing the issue of crossing the border of people's deputy of ukraine artem dmytrouk, he remains a deputy until now, he is not deprived of his mandate, although officially there are still questions for him from ukrainian law enforcement officers, in particular in the context of

how he managed cross your own border and enter the territory of the european union, where he is today. in his social networks, dmytruk wrote that his mother, wife... and two small children were allegedly trying to be stolen from a hotel in europe, these are the last messages that appeared in his social networks, and this, by the way, also needs to be find out what exactly it is about and where he got this information from. appeared, we asked artem dmytruk to comment on the incident, and we are currently waiting for answers to the questions we sent him, and igor friz is actually returning to our broadcast, mr. igor, thank you for you're coming back, i'm sorry, something is breaking the connection, i don't know what happened. tell me, please, what the consequences can be and should be for those who allowed dmytrouk to leave the country. we know that deber today has questions for the border guards, in particular, for civilians, they conducted. their searches, what should be the legal consequences for those people who could have contributed to this and

what should be the consequences for dmytrouk himself. well, for those people who contributed, it is a crime, and those people should suffer criminal liability, this is in any case, there are relevant norms of the criminal code, which regulate the issue of illegal border crossing, and persons who are accomplices or accomplices of the specified crime, they are the same as the person who directly committed it. legal crossing of the state border, this is the first action for dmytrouk, there will probably be criminal proceedings as well, extradition may be filed, extradition is filed, but it also takes place in a certain procedure that is carried out for such the person who is artem dmytruk under the direct leadership of the office of the prosecutor general, because her criminal proceedings against a people's deputy of ukraine can be initiated only by the decision of the prosecutor general or his... first deputy head of the specialized anti-corruption prosecutor's office, but do you know

whether it will somehow be brought to completion, well, i am not ready to say, today we have several people's deputies of active convocation who are abroad and for whom any procedural i have not heard or seen actions related to their extradition directly and return to the territory of ukraine, at least in the public sphere, in the public space, but in any case, let's not forget that in addition to criminal responsibility there is so is political responsibility. if artem dmytruk decided to stop, and most likely, probably stop his political career, then political responsibility for him, it will also take place. do you foresee that he may want to make a mandate on his own? perhaps no one, no one can prevent this, to draw up a mandate is an ordinary statement and the termination of the powers of a people's deputy, which are directly provided for in the articles. 81 of the constitution of ukraine, but the verkhovna rada does not have the authority to force him to do it,

today we read the comments of the representatives of the regulatory committee, it is not so easy to do it for the legislature. of course, this is not something that is impossible, we cannot even today resolve the issue of traitors who are representatives of the party of regions and formed two separate groups in verkhovna rada, we do not even have the opportunity , even with a draft law that was registered on june 1, 2022. for two years, we cannot in any way implement the relevant norms in the regulatory law on the regulations of the verkhovna rada, in order to make it impossible for them to be present in the parliament and under the walls, under the dome in the verkhovna rada. therefore, to talk about dmytrouk, well, it is him, by the way, just as when he left the servant of the people faction, he joined the corresponding group created by the opzzhi. tell me , please, dmytruk calls cases against itself by hunting those who disagree with the regime of the authorities, whether the authorities may really have any questions for dmytrouk. about his activities and to have the desire to close him as an example, because he actively opposes the ban of the uoc-mp, and

on august 24, president zelensky signed a law banning religious organizations, which include the uoc. look, 265 votes of people's deputies from different factions, from different cities, from different regions of ukraine supported the specified draft law. er, the bill is no longer about banning something religion, the bill on state regulation, as the creation. which exists today, as well as the termination of the relevant religious organization that acts in favor of the enemy. dmytruk really defended his position and told everyone that this was a law on the prohibition of religion and misled both voters and some people's deputies. more than one person had to explain the legal nature of this draft law, and i am deeply convinced that there was no political pressure for the promotion, let's say, of any faith. unlikely, well, it's possible, it's not logical does not yield, another thing for me is, you know,

strange, is that the announcement of suspicion arose directly after the voting of this law and the active actions of artem dmytruk regarding the introduction of a warning to the citizens of ukraine regarding the specified draft law, as well as regarding when it was announced why it is alleged that a suspicion is being prepared, he was directly informed why this suspicion could not be in... he was served much earlier, if the investigation had at its disposal all the relevant evidence and all the relevant information, this arises, really causes such a certain concern, misunderstanding, and especially... taking into account that very often, from the very serving of the suspicion, from the serving of the suspicion, it is supposed, you know, like the completion of some process, and this process does not always concern the person who is already on the territory of ukraine, it is happening, by the way, there are not enough, but really, you read comments on social networks, i read comments on social networks, ukrainians write that it looks like the authorities simply

allowed dmytrouk to flee the country, after that announced to him about the suspicion, why this not done earlier, this is a question that is really asked by users in social networks today and what you are leading to, these are the questions that need to be investigated, how to respond to them and how to improve this system so that such cases do not happen? oh, you are asking conceptual questions about how to improve the system, i have absolutely nothing to do with improving, let's say, the law enforcement branch of government, this is not the subject of our committee's activity, god forbid we deal with improving or introducing an institution into the judicial branch of government, judicial the system is precisely the subject regulation committee. of legal policy, and here there are, indeed, in our country we have ideas, we have visions, for example, how to conduct the same jury court, how to conduct a ... , who will be elected, to implement some kind of election system in the system of law enforcement, well, it seems to me that we have already

produced and created such a large number of law enforcement agencies, starting with the specialized anti-corruption prosecutor's office, where... bbr, nabu, everyone who is not lazy, are engaged in researching the fortunes of people's deputies and ukrainian citizens, but when it comes down to it, for some reason suspicions are intended to be served at that moment, either when the person left ukraine, or, god forbid, he died. i have one more question for you, it is for you as a deputy, in particular, not a representative of some specialized committee, but ukrainians, if you read the comments on social networks, are also outraged by the fact that the borders were first... a large-scale invasion are closed for men in ukraine, instead deputies who can have an influence on the border guards, on those who can have more money, more acquaintances, allow themselves to leave, how to extinguish this social injustice on the part of the government, on the part of the legislative branch of government, the executive branch of government in society in order to the rights were the same for all, the duties were the same for all and the opportunities, if possible, here it seems, you

are deeply mistaken, deeply mistaken, and the users of the sea. who are commenting are just as deeply mistaken as we are today day 404, it seems to me that if dmytruk left, it is 403 people's deputies, if you compare the number of deputies who left, who could in one way or another exert some illegal influence on the same border guards, compare it with the number of men conscripted from the age of 18 up to 60 years old, you illegally crossed the state border and left, a completely different thing should creep into society... the question is how should we regulate the work of the state border service when such cases arise, such cases are not singles and it's the uh restrictions i think when there are any restrictions it's any in any area by the way if we're talking to you about guns it's gun restrictions if we're talking to you from the restriction in medical

cannabis, forgive me, this is a restriction in medical cannabis, there will always be illegal ways of circumventing it. the relevant restrictions of the state, just as the borders were closed and various ways of transferring people across the carpathians, entwining people through the yew, or simply transporting them in the cars of those or other officials, er, more than once, who have already been suspected, across the state border of ukraine. one way or another, deputies are the people who should be looked up to, who should set the tone, and that's why they are more often paid attention to than ordinary... ukrainians, i thank you for your inclusion, for the explanation , ihor fries, people's deputy of ukraine, servant of the people, member of the committee on legal policy, we talked about the crossing of the border by mr. ihor's colleague artem dmytruk, who, according to the exchange, is currently in italy. well, on the verkhovna rada reacted to dmytrouk's departure abroad. the press service of the parliament apparatus published a statement in which they emphasized that people's deputy of ukraine artem

dmytruk did not go on a business trip abroad. radio svoboda contacted artem dmytruk. for comments, we are still waiting for answers from him, and as soon as they appear, we are ready to publish these answers on our broadcast, because it is important for this information to look complete, besides that, roman kolkhov is joining us at this moment , is a lawyer of the resistance center corruption, i congratulate you, roman, i congratulate you, please tell me whether you see a corruption component in the story of dmytrouk’s departure abroad, if so, what, how could it happen, well, you know, it’s too early to talk about it, but really ... hypothetically, this could be the case, because if we ask the question of how it happens in general, then in principle there are two options: or a person leaves unofficially outside the checkpoint, then it is one story. here we can talk about the corruption component, if a person provides certain documents and officially leaves the country of ukraine, and then it turns out that these documents are either forged or issued in

violation of some specific procedure or without grounds, this is a completely different story, of course, we can talk about a corruption component here, but according to the latest reports of the sbi , at least there was a report that dmytruk still left unofficially, so we will... follow this situation to know how it actually happened, and then it will be clear whether there was any corruption component here or not. your anti-corruption center, after it has become the well-known story with dmytruk, he published the names of other officials, among them are people's deputies, where it is indicated that they also crossed the border at one time, also illegally, there they are called fugitives, that is, it turns out that this is not an isolated story, when the figures of those or other things, future, current, cross the border and what then? yes, of course there is, there is such a trend, indeed these surnames are quite well-known, quite public, and these people at one time held quite responsible positions, or had significant fortunes

and continue to have them, this indicates that we we are dealing with some kind of systematic error, because it should not be like this, because if a person who holds a certain position or has a certain such important status in society, is suspected of committing a serious crime. or corruption crime in general, then usually such a person is declared suspect, i.e. if suspicion is declared, it is logical that the court chooses a certain preventive measure for him, and usually such a person cannot go abroad, usually he surrenders his foreign passports, this is one of those basic fuses, yes, if if this does not happen, then we have a question for the prosecutors from the court, why this happened, if the person left his foreign passport and was able to safely leave ukraine with it. if this passport was taken from a person, but she left anyway, the question arises again as to how this happened, here it is probably a question for the border guards, on the basis of which documents such a person

was released, if we consider the other third option, if, for example, the actual proceedings for under certain circumstances, and no one has yet been announced about suspicion, but the person understands that he is a figure in these events that are being investigated, and in the near future he may... be declared a suspect and he manages to get there a few hours before the suspicion was planned to be served, to leave the territory of ukraine, then the question arises, how could this person know about it, because there is a secret of the pre-trial investigation, and the body that deals with this pre-trial investigation must keep this information from third parties, that is, it can be assumed that a certain leak of this information took place, and persons who were preparing a suspicion, learned about it in advance and managed to leave the territory of ukraine, such cases... there were also, and all this indicates that there is a certain systemic problem, and as you know, president zelenskyi also reacted to this, he announced, announced such a meeting with the security forces,

because something really needs to be done about it, because this is really not an isolated case, it indicates some kind of systemic problem, which is quite critical in the conditions of the appearance of zelensky , it is said that it is already about those people, the meeting will concern those people , which have left, then it turns out that the state of ukraine will now open some kind of hunt for them? people abroad or how, why were these people not detained on time in ukraine, inside, given the opportunity to go abroad in different ways, and now the state wants to do something in this direction? well, actually, this is a question about what i said earlier, that is, it is not clear why they were not detained, maybe they didn’t have time to prepare a suspicion, maybe there really were showers of this information and the person found out in advance that his a suspicion is being prepared, they are preparing to detain her, and she managed to leave, well... what do you think

of these people who, for example, in the case of dmytrouk, if zelensky gathers law enforcement agencies, leaders, sets before them the task that this crime must be thoroughly investigated, it is possible will find through whom this downpour occurred? i think you can because we live in a digital world and people usually communicate using various... electronic means of data transfer and all this information is stored no matter how much you try to delete it, so of course if it will be such a task for law enforcement agencies to establish how this information, if there was such a leak, how it got to these persons, through which chains it passed, who could hand it over? theoretically, of course, it is possible, for this it is necessary to at least carry out an official check in those bodies that were engaged in pre-trial investigation, and if such facts are really confirmed. then it is already necessary to initiate criminal proceedings and bring the guilty parties to justice. one more question, i'll come back to publications of the anti-corruption center, your center writes: president zelensky decided

to convene a large meeting. regarding the fugitives, they say that conclusions must be drawn, here is a far from complete list of fugitives, and there you name dmytrok, portnov, portnov's son, derkach, kozak, voloshyn, korolevska and so on down the list. tell me, please, if a person to whom suspicion should have been announced in the country left abroad before this suspicion was announced to him. what are the chances at all that this person will be prosecuted at all. well, practice works out in such a way that the chances, unfortunately, are not yet... great, because in such a case, you need to make a request for international legal assistance, declare this person an international wanted person, contact interpol, and unfortunately, this is not always works so far, and apparently the question here is that ukraine, as a state in general, needs to develop such mechanisms that would allow in this procedure to prove beyond doubt the facts that testify to

the commission of a crime by a person on the territory. of ukraine in order to implement this extradition, and the person was detained abroad and returned to ukraine for justice. i would also like to dwell on people's deputy dmytruk in more detail. he still remains a deputy. the verkhovna rada has no mechanisms to influence the taking away of his mandate. that is, as i understand it correctly, he will continue to receive a salary, he will continue to be able to send parliamentary requests, engage in his parliamentary activities simply abroad. yes, absolutely exactly, it turns out that yes, because, unfortunately, there really is such a, well, i would say a gap in the legislation, which does not allow to deprive a deputy of his mandate, if he just has a suspicion, yes, even if it is well-founded, for this it is necessary for the sentence to acquire legal validity strength it seems to me that this gap needs to be corrected, and because in any civilized country, even a suspicion, if it is well-founded, is a sufficient reason to

remove a person from the position he holds, and for that , so that she could not abuse by their official position for possible obstruction of activities and so on, so this is also a problem that needs to be solved, that is, taxpayers' funds will continue to go to the maintenance of those deputies who are not deprived of mandates, but are conditionally there in european countries or in any another part of the world, yes, well, it's the same as the situation with the princely former head of... the supreme court, who also received a salary until recently, his case is already being considered in court, but only recently he was dismissed from his position. we have the same situation with people's deputies, unfortunately. well, if the state understands that there is such a gap, why haven't certain decisions been made in this direction so far in order to somehow correct this gap, destroy it, and direct it in the right direction? well, it seems to me that this is another remnant of parliamentary immunity. that is, inviolability as such was removed, but this is actually

the norm about what is not possible. in such cases, unfortunately, it is still possible to revoke the mandate. i have one more question, it will concern people's deputy oleksandr dubinsky. he continues to submit parliamentary appeals, even while in the žizo. this was reported by rukh chesno, who investigated his own activities. tell me, please, what are the dangers of sending such parliamentary requests, parliamentary appeals, while being in a pre-trial detention center, when an investigation is being conducted against a deputy, when a preventive measure has already been chosen for him, but he somehow continues to conduct his parliamentary activities. what are the risks and threats here? in my opinion, the threats can be colossal because, as you know, popular deputies have access to state secrets, and in principle, if he sends a request for such information, then according to the law he is obliged to provide it, this sounds paradoxical, because dubinsky is accused, among other things, of high treason, it is also necessary immediately somehow fix this norm so that at least it is possible, at least those deputies who

are ... under a certain precautionary measure , cannot use this tool, because in the conditions of war it is really very dangerous for state security. and finally, regarding dmytruk, dmytruk went abroad, if you believe me, he is there. i understand correctly, there the parliamentary institutions of other countries, there official structures, there church structures, continue to perceive him as a deputy of the verkhovna rada and a representative of the verkhovna rada itself abroad, because he is not deprived of a mandate, so his word will somehow have an influence for example in the topic there. ukrainian orthodox church, which he defends? yes, of course. i thank you for joining. roman kolyukhov, a lawyer at the anti-corruption center, was there as a guest of svoboda live. we talked about people's deputies of ukraine, who are abroad, continue, as lawyers say, to receive salaries from the ukrainian budget and can continue to conduct their activities, although proceedings have been opened against them here. and from people's deputy dmytrouk, who is an active supporter.