the results of this vote, i want to introduce the guests of today's studio, they are people's deputies of ukraine, viktoria syumar, people's deputy of ukraine from european solidarity, member of the parliamentary committee on anti-corruption policy, ms. victoria, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. mykyta poturaev, people's deputy of ukraine from the servant of the people, chairman of the parliamentary committee on humanitarian affairs and information policy and the president of the osce parliamentary assembly. mr. nikita, i congratulate you, thank you for reaching out. to broadcast, good evening, and oleksiy kucherenko, people's deputy of ukraine, first deputy chairman of the parliamentary committee on energy and housing and communal affairs, mr. oleksiy, i congratulate you, thank you for joining our broadcast. good evening, thank you. well, first of all, ladies and gentlemen, as we ask our viewers and tv viewers about the telegram platform, and after durov, pavlo durov, the founder and owner of this. platforms, arrested in

france, detained in france, we ask our viewers if they have encountered with enemy propaganda on telegram, i will ask you too, although i think this rhetorical question is so accurate for you, because you work professionally with information, and have definitely seen how the enemy uses this platform, and yet, let's in the blitz format , let's try to answer this question, ms. victoria, i think... these are, you know, the harshest examples of enemy propaganda that can be found in telegram, it's not only solovyov's live broadcasts, which, by the way, he does in telegram , but he hasn't been there in youtube for a long time, but he has broadcasts and studios every day, but unfortunately, there is a lot of such propaganda, which directly refers to the cruel treatment of ukrainian prisoners of war, in particular, therefore, during the war, it is ... an extremely serious tool

of russia in the war against ukraine. madam, mr. maketon, please, and thank you, i did not come across, because i demolished this kremlin sink in the 19th year. i watched what was happening there for exactly two months, realized that it was a kremlin cesspool, demolished it and no one else, never used it. what i advise everyone, and i am surprised only by the fact that there are many colleagues... i will not ask the colleagues who are on the air with me now whether they have telegram installed, i am surprised only by the fact that there are many colleagues, both from the legislative branch and from the executive power, as well as from other powers, all different, did not do the same, did not destroy the telegram and did not address the citizens, as i did, with her persistent request and with the explanation that this poison must be abandoned, but of course that i saw and... still see numerous, detailed

monitoring, so i know what's there it’s happening, i’m the one with this shit, i’m sorry, i haven’t used it since 19, thank you, mr. nikita, mr. oleksiy, you use the telegram channel, well, i can say that i use the telegram channel, i don’t have any state secrets, but i monitor the information field in telegram, please, there is a lot of interesting, operational information there, especially if i need... for example, to quickly learn about the same shelling, then definitely telegram is instant, you just have to read what you want to read , and not read that shit, because i'm something i don’t really understand, you know, finding shit in the world, well, if you want, please, you can find it everywhere, just why read it and all, although i’ll tell you honestly, in order to understand what is in the heads of russian scoundrels, i sometimes look there is the fact that what this

alcoholic writes, this one is like his alcoholic, and the tsarev, both, yes, and the tsarev is the same, you understand, i even read it, i have to understand what, what the enemy breathes and what's in his head, and i don't see anything negative about it, well, that's because because i understand that the russians are now, as they say in galicia, surprised by the fact that durov was detained in france, he is accused there of what he did not want. to moderate the content, he did not want to cooperate with the french and did not want to reveal information about users suspected of distributing drugs, child pornography and fraud, obviously it is important for the russians now to reach out to the fool, and even the minister of foreign affairs of russia sergey lavrov says , that the detention of durov proved that...

the telegram messenger made is reliable a protected platform, well, he didn't just add here that it is protected and reliable for the russians, now that the fool was taken away on someone's advice. are threatening a terrible punishment, expecting, apparently, to somehow get access to the encryption codes, now it has already been proven by the actions of the french that telegram is really a reliable and popular network, well, lavrov sent such a greeting to durov and said that pasha, hold on, don’t give anything away there, so that many russians use this platform, and it was hysterical, i read among the military, because they too are used among those who are fighting against ukraine, mrs. victoria, at one time there was a ban on two russian social networks, vkontakte and classmates, then too, well , there was a very big disturbance in ukrainian society, there was much more, then there was no big war , but you went through this procedure of disconnecting ukrainians from two

social networks, how can you go through this story with telegram now, given the fact that it is so... someone who can be used by the russian special services, it is used by the russian special services, in this, this is the whole point, i think, this story with the detention of durov, it just so vividly shed light on everything that is happening, and the hysteria of the russian military about the fact that he is the chief of communication of the svo, and broadcasts on russian television about that the main targeting of missiles at the concentration of the ukrainian military is carried out with the help of a telegram, all this has suddenly become not a secret, in ukraine it is simply uncomfortable to talk about it, because we have an illusion among many politicians that they control this russian messenger, but i emphasize, this is just an illusion, i

never created my telegram channel, i can only monitor what is happening there on some devices of others, i understand very well how this tool works on... only it is convenient, it is really , and i am very sorry that it is used by the ukrainian special services and they, they really use it, and throw a lot of information there into the monitoring channels, because it is supposedly convenient, i repeat, it is actually dangerous, it poses a threat, we really passed, we have this experience with by banning vkontakte, vkontakte creator of this social network is also pavlo durov, and you know, these russian tools work there too, which make social networks such as vkontakte and telegram attractive to various... propagandists of various stripes, because the principle of anonymity really works there , you do not know who writes this or that content, in fact it is convenient for those who want to manipulate readers and who want to manipulate the masses, and there is no regulation,

that is, you can throw any fake there, and there is access to a lot of which is closed by codes information, and they just use it. you know, people who spread from child pornography there to drug trafficking or other things, my acquaintances in germany said: listen, telegram has become so popular in your country because of the news there, as a news resource, here, here, all drugs are bought through telegram, and this has become a problem for europe, and that is why the french law enforcement system is ready to present, frankly speaking, these are stupid accusations, i know not... here to go into some conspiracy theories, as there are many politicians here, the fact remains the fact, a lot cryptocurrencies, the darknet, many processes there are actually carried out through telegram, because, i repeat, the tools of the absence of any regulation are used,

and this is a big problem, we must talk about the fact that in a civilized society the state should have access to the regulation of social networks, and if we have the opportunity. i'll just show how it 's happening now on the example of many countries, from the united states, to, for example, the same turkey that actually settled the scandal with instagram a week ago when instagram agreed to the state's terms of content regulation. thank you, ms. victoria, mr. mykyta, will your parliamentary committee initiate restrictions on the work of telegram in ukraine? well, first of all, we have mykola knyazhiv's bill. it was supported by quite a few deputies from different factions of the groups, i believe that this bill is too soft, we discussed it with mykola knyazhytskyi today, we will consider it at the committee on thursday, i will insist that we develop it in the parliamentary version, therefore

that it is not because mykola knyazhytskyi is so liberal towards the telegram, by no means, he simply drafted the draft law, a little earlier, when certain problems were still so... not aggravated and were not so obvious, i believe that we need tougher solutions there, and therefore, i will propose that the committee agree to develop the so-called committee text. where we are all together, all members of the committee, or almost all of us, will speak with co-authors and make the text much tougher and more effective, although, if it will be, i don’t know, well, a proposal from society, so that we follow a more liberal, softer path there, which i personally absolutely do not agree with, then we can really continue to promote mykola leonidovich's law there, it is... soft, in my opinion , too soft , but again, this is not mykola knizhytskyi's fault, it's just that

it was created a little at a different time, a little earlier, so yes, we are ready, and i am personally working on it, and we involve experts in this work, but i absolutely disagree with the fact that we have any options there, there are no options, we have an option or nothing don't do and tolerate, tolerate further, or such networks hard, hard, simply, block, and by the way, this is not only a problem with telegram, and i want to say when, this is again, this is not an accusation, this is just a statement of fact for everyone that everyone who has this app on their phone and uses it, even if they don't have their own channel, everyone is supporting this obvious criminal

ecosystem by being there, just by being there, the fact that you don't have channels means nothing, you thus every person who is there increases the rating because it is so called organic, and there are ukrainian ones, which means that politicians are published there, and there are ukrainian magazines published there, and there is no need to blame the authorities for having it there, because there are representatives of the ukrainian media, the largest ones, which run their channels there, this is all the promotion of the development of this of the network that works against ukraine, where daily thousands of channels are crossed with other similar networks of unmoderation, subversive operations against our country during the war. and every ukrainian who is present there helps russia fight to destroy its own

state, this is what is happening, i am not going to be correct, i am saying as it is, everyone who has this messenger is helping russia to defeat his own state and his own country, this is what is happening, and there is no need, and no need for illusions, according to your the conclusion is that millions of ukrainians are helping the russians... and unfortunately, it is our fault that we did not deal with this more harshly earlier, because there were only isolated voices, experts, investigators that no one wanted to hear, and even more so, above us they also mocked, and still continue to mock, well, let's continue to laugh, come on, no, no one will laugh at you, the simple question is that when there is a large network of the ukrainian orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate in the country, and only

now we made a decision, in 9 months we will deal with this network, and it also looks very strange, you know, on the one hand , you can say that everyone who has a smartphone and there is telegram is a criminal and supports russia, despite the fact that there is a live network that works in ukraine, and we say, no, we are there let's give them a chance, and then they'll somehow... get together, or not they are ukrainian orthodox, or not ukrainian, although the head of this orthodox church is a person who is a member of the holy synod of the russian orthodox church, well, this is also some madness, excuse me, because national security, mr. serhiy, i definitely don’t need it, right? to criticize that we did not fight the russian orthodox church enough, however, certainly not to me and not to my colleagues from the committee, but i want to, but i want to emphasize the fact that... it is possible not to go to the moscow priests in the church, but to have

a moscow one apk in my pocket, i don't know what's with it it's more dangerous than that, it's the harsh truth of life, and you have to look her straight in the eyes, thank you, i and we have to tell each other the truth about the fact that in ukraine 80% of people use a hostile, hostile product. who is destroying our state and our country and our, our nation, mr. nikita, mr. nikita, give oleksiy kucherenko the opportunity to tell the truth, the whole truth, because oleksiy kucherenko, he said that he is using. there is a problem, what problem are we discussing, remind me? the problem of the existence of telegram in ukraine and the influence of telegram on me now opened telegram zelensky official 735,415 subscribers, yesterday's news about attacks, about how people are saved, this channel is run

by president zelensky very carefully, but yesterday... the photos are great, the president's office, well, i think that if i listened to the fiery this speech by mr. poturaev is fiery, he is a very famous agitator, propagandist, such, well, there is no doubt about the best traditions there, as the head of the specialized committee, he has every opportunity to hold a relevant meeting, and in the case of a positive decision, to appeal officially, openly, honestly, honestly , as well man. he resolutely went to president zelenskyi with the proposal that he close his telegram channel, stop using it and set an example for all ukrainians, this will be the most correct act in this situation, in my opinion, why the statements, the resolution, that this is a step as a resolution of the verkhovna rada to appeal to the nsdc regarding the closure of these social networks, this is

the fastest way, and it is definitely very radical, and it exists today, the parliament is... one of the four bodies that can initiate this decision, so if we have here such a consensus with the party in power, i think we we can really hope that this will lead to some concrete solutions, i think it will be a fun discussion in the hall of the verkhovna rada, a very fun discussion, believe me, people, people will evaluate, evaluate whether we are there for, well, vkontakte classmates were closing according to the decision of the national security council, right, ms. victoria? by the decision of the national security council, the point is that the national security council can impose sanctions in the form of limiting the work of one or another media, and in particular a social network, but then the subject of the submission was the security service of ukraine, but the parliament is also the subject of the submission regarding the imposition of sanctions, so it depends on who will take this responsibility actually, if we talk about it, but i listened to

the press conference of the president today, he said that he is against hard methods, so let's speak objectively, we have three ways, nothing no... and it's true, i agree with nikita here, it's a completely unacceptable option, because frankly, we look impotent if we loudly declare here that let's all stop using, but people will use, it's obvious, everyone got used to, a lot of information and spoiled with this information, i'm sorry, but the ukrainian special services, who transferred the main information about the same missile strikes in particular, that is, it is the main, key one, it should be transferred to other sites that are normal, which the state... to organize yes , for starters, so that people there, millions of people, are simply not forced to track whether they are being flown or attacked by telegram . the second point, you don't need to use it as a tool, forgive the casting of fakes, well, it's just very convenient tool, and let's be frank that anonymous telegram channels are used today, well, we also understand by whom and in whose interests, i will not

actively spread about it now, and therefore we have another way, it is to follow the path, as i said , resolutions. of the supreme council, in particular an appeal to the national security council, closure, there must be the will of the national security council, whether there is such a will, i do not know, i did not hear today, well, there is a third way, which the parliament itself can follow, it is really through the adoption of a draft law, which can be done tougher, i agree, but mykola's bill knyazhytskyi is not bad, because he implements the same norms regarding telegram that exist today regarding television in particular, that is, how the state regulates television, the state says: i want to know who the owner is, this owner must be identified, he must... be clear , reported to people, i want to know who works in the editorial office directly, where i can go if i believe that false information has been spread against me, and i want to understand in general what funds are used to finance these or other telegram channels, because it is not a secret that today, you know, you can order any jeans there, you can put anything you want on any of your competitors, paying with cryptocurrencies, and in fact you

don't even contact those who will put that information, you don't have to contact for that with... you can just throw money at a crypto-bank, that's mostly how it happens. this bench, excuse me, of wild fake news, wild propaganda, drug trade, and other unnecessary things, it must be covered, and what knyazhytsky proposed, well, it is the way to get there, we we can make it simply a clearly working tool, if there is no political will to close it today. well, let's hope that this topic will still be in development, let's not drag it out for a long time. thank you. you for discussing the topic of telegram, because it is really necessary to consider the draft law and then decide in the parliamentary hall or turn to the national security and defense council, if there are relevant conclusions of the ukrainian special services. security services of ukraine, first of all, further on, we will talk about how the russian federation is currently trying to destroy the energy system of ukraine, this is

actually an important issue, and obviously it will be relevant throughout the entire period, the next period of the russian-ukrainian war, denys shmehal, the prime minister of ukraine , says that thanks to the two levels of protection , ukrainian energy has lost a few, a few regions. during yesterday's airstrike, although the enemy used rockets with cluster munitions for the first time. let's listen to what the head of the ukrainian government said. the objects of distribution were mostly hit by drones, there were no rocket strikes, because this it was economically impractical for the enemy. yesterday, by the way, the first rocket attacks took place, but they were rockets with cluster munitions, not daggers with which our substations were attacked. more, respectively, yesterday, it was dozens of rockets that attacked the substations, we lost a very small amount of our

equipment yesterday due to the first and second level of protection. mr. oleksiy, you, as a person who knows for sure what is happening in the ukrainian energy sector and has experience in managing the housing and communal economy. and countries and you know this whole system, what can you say, which decisions are not enough now, or which actions are not enough for the ukrainian authorities, or from the ukrainian authorities , so that we clearly understand what will await us in november, december, january, february, look, no one has full information, i think even the prime minister, because i understand how information is circulated in the government, it is absolutely not a fact that the prime minister knows for sure. about the level of readiness of these shelters, about their quality, how much they protected and so on, there the control financing scheme was very complicated and so on. nevertheless, this strike is very

non-trivial, it is the first such, despite the fact that there were more powerful, but the fact that it is so combined 236 ee missile drones, of which 129 missiles, 107 drones, uavs, uh, 201 shot down, but 35 caused such great damage, so excuse me, well, when the prime minister still says that the consequences there are small, well, certainly not small, you see what the situation is, the country was on the verge of a blackout, because they really were this is what you see at the distribution substation at the kyiv hydroelectric power station, they were on the vyshhorod dam, the dam was not damaged, i want to reassure you, it is there, it is actually impossible to do something with it there with such... blows, it is all nonsense, but this equipment, it was damaged, but i am in why do i agree, well, yes, we see that this is a pile of iron, but in fact

, energy workers can quickly enough replace or repair what can be repaired, and i can reassure the ukrainians now that this is actually 99% information, that literally a day or two will be tough enough schedules, well, day, day... more will follow schedules have already been turned off for two rounds and by the end of the week, the consequences will be eliminated, this is certainly a positive thing, the prime minister correctly said that these are missile strikes with these cluster heads, that is, gunshots with metal balls, and he protected against this, well, first of all the second, the second level of protection, these are concrete bunkers above the transformers that were built, where they were not there, there was damage, but also... i draw your attention, even these 35 missiles and uavs, respectively, that broke through, that is, well, how many 10%, yes, but they did damage

such that a week will make the country a sausage, and this is in the summer, so far ugh-ugh-ugh-ugh, but this is such a very serious warning that, well, in winter , you understand, there may be deeper consequences, especially, i repeat, there could be a blackout, i.e. .. the distribution of the single energy system to a part, to the islands, were close to that, the energy experts worked out what to do, well, the same as they did, less theft in the shelter, in the shelters, if possible, to build these groin shelters, the main thing, of course , this, if what president zelenskyi says about, to be strengthened by patriots, i believe, that five patriots would radically change the situation in terms of... the power and reliability of the defense and this is a super-task, i think the president understands this well, all the diplomats understand this, it is necessary to work titanically here, because

it is anti-aircraft... defense is 90 % guarantee of a normal passage of winter. 10% is what energy workers, utility workers do, they do their job, they have a lot of current problems, financial, debt and so on and so on, but they are used to it, so they will fulfill their mission, somehow . thank you, mr. oleksiy, mr. nikita, or our western partners understand the importance of those who are in front of us, given the fact that winter is ahead, it will obviously be quite a difficult winter, and president zelensky keeps saying, give us more air defense, give us opportunities, give us such resources , which would make it possible to overcome this energy terror of the russian federation, and in what way this energy terror, how can this energy terror be avoided, well

, first of all i want... audience to listen to the what mr. oleksiy said now, including paying attention to the details regarding hydroelectric power stations and substations and so on, with the exception of the fact that mr. oleksiy, as a representative of the opposition, well, he says that there is stealing somewhere, well, it would be nice to point out some, it is not necessary to do it now, maybe there are examples in the parliament, because i would not have heard of such examples , on the contrary, we see that , to the insane number of, er, which mr. oleksii brought up, absolutely correctly, of enemies of the means of impression that attacked ukraine, that we have light, it is a miracle in general, this, and this is a testimony to how much has been

done, of course, that there is still much to do, because our energy system, it is huge, it is, unfortunately, vulnerable, and what we already have now after such a frenzied attack of light is, again, unprecedented. now what to do next? and do partners realize? well, look, at one time, yuriy butusa, whose competence i never doubted for a single day, calculated that for the complete protection of the skies of ukraine, it was necessary 32. or an analogy, do we have 32 batteries, these are not divisions, i want to emphasize, well, at the moment, of course, there are none, and our air defense and anti-missile systems, they should cover, in addition to energy facilities, also military industry facilities , we must understand this, because we produce a lot ourselves, and we produce such things that our allies do not give us, and we must continue to produce this,

and in order to continue to produce , we must... protect, and of course, that, as mr. oleksiy said correctly, president zelenskyi constantly emphasizes and constantly calls on the western allies to cover the sky more reliably, or at least to start together with us to protect the ukrainian sky, without pretending that rockets and rockets are not flying into the territory of romania, romania, that rockets and rockets are not flying into the territory of poland, but together with we should cover at least the western part. of the ukrainian sky, which would greatly improve the situation for us , and also give us more air defense and anti-missile assets, and in fact, in fact, this is a very simple solution, we have to continue, as mr. oleksiy kucherenko said, to do what is already being done in the energy sector, to cover up our facilities, and we must, we must persistently, i will say this correctly, ask, but very persistently,

for allies. give us more means of pip victory, that's all, nothing else is really needed. thank you, mr. nikita, i understand, mr. oleksiy, you wanted to mention the deputy minister of energy, or not, i even read it, well, i won’t even bother with that, because, well, another deputy, unfortunately, i’m worried, because it hits the energy, you understand, this is common in all energy companies, and there are three scandals, but not there... unfortunately, unfortunately, let the investigation work, nikita, i am turning to you and, by the way, to mrs. victoria, because i approached pyotr oleksiiovych, offered him to do such a thing, look, i myself do not like this constant use, they steal, steal, steal, steal, well, unfortunately, there are ordinary ukrainians there, they, well, like to believe in this, and believe me, well, the government, unfortunately, both this one and the previous one, gives them reasons all the time.