field, and if he believed that in order to avoid unpacking the nuclear suitcase, it was necessary to simply surrender ukraine, well, he would have surrendered, but thank god, in the states he is not the only one who makes all the decisions, but those who are from him it depends on the direction, well, we can see it, but long-range strikes on russia for him still remain outside the boundaries of these red lines, and if our kermanychs manage to convince him that in fact these red lines exist only in his head, well, that would... . will be just a fantastic success, i so far i wouldn't expect that, but by the way about red lines, well, grandfather biden is really a separate story, i would say on the border of psychiatry, but the absolute majority of western experts, in particular , were convinced by the kurdish operation that there are no red lines, it was once believed that strikes on crimea were red lines, but then it was thought that , well, strikes on russia are red lines.

drones even flew over moscow, but even after that it was considered that, well, what, but the direct occupation of a military unit the territory of russia, well, this is already such a red line, well, it’s downright crimson, you can say, well , what, well, we’ve already crossed this line for three weeks, and what, and nothing, and the kurt region is also banally covered with conscript soldiers, they are in packs surrender, we advance further, and where... the red line, the course operation brilliantly showed that the red lines are in fact, just like the russian classic about the fact that destruction is not in the closets, destruction is in the heads, so the red lines are not on the map, the red lines are only in heads, i'm afraid biden hasn't fully realized this yet, but many people in the west already do. thank you, mr. yevgeny, for the conversation, it was yevhen dyky, a veteran of the russian-ukrainian war. friends, we continue to work live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our platforms. on youtube and facebook, for

those who are currently watching us on these platforms, please support our pages, support our stream, like, take part in our survey, today we ask you if you have encountered armed propaganda in telegram? yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, if you have your own opinion, please leave it in the comments under this video, if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote by numbers, if you have encountered hostile propaganda in the body 0800-21381 no 0800-211382 all calls to these numbers are free, vote at the end of the program , we will tally up the results of this vote, and so on, our contact is oleksandr khara , diplomat, expert on foreign and security policy of the center for defense strategies. mr. oleksandr, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. good evening, mr. sergey, thank you for the invitation. let's start our conversation

with the statements of the russians, which they began to make after the armed forces of ukraine entered the territory of the russian federation in kurshchyna. russia said that they refuse, under the current conditions, to go to any negotiations with ukraine. prior to that, there were publications in the western press that a meeting between russians and ukrainians was supposed to take place in qatar on august 22, and they were supposed to agree on some plan. strikes, i will say so, not strikes on energy infrastructure, on critical infrastructure, kremlin spokesman dmytro piskov was just commenting on the information about the possibility of negotiations between ukraine and russia, and about which the washington post wrote, what he said, you know, the topic of negotiations now it has not quite lost its relevance, messages about various contacts in zmi are published until... a lot and far from

all of them are actually true, the kremlin speaker also claims that there were no negotiations before the operation of the armed forces of ukraine in the kursk region, we know, as a matter of fact, that russians always lie, and in this case piskov can't be trusted or should be trusted, but is the kursk now such an excuse for russians to talk about the fact that... we won't talk about peace at all, since you entered our territory, we will now continue the war, although the nature of the war for 2 years showed that putin did not want these peace talks, he only had one plan, the plan of surrender of ukraine, which he tried to implement, is it so well, first of all, we cannot rule out that indeed, the ukrainian side negotiated with the russians about a moratorium on strikes on... critical balances, critically important

energy infrastructure, of course, that the russians have been targeting our energy facility since the 22nd year, well, actually since last year we... pretty much actively began to destroy russian refineries, and this, of course, hits them very hard, and i do not rule out the fact that we will resume these negotiations, since in fact it is also beneficial for us, because russia has the opportunity to destroy our infrastructure with these massive attacks, and it is clear that without energy sector, we will have a very difficult situation both for civilians and for the economy itself , including the defense-industrial complex, well... we also periodically conduct negotiations on the exchange of prisoners of war, so separate negotiations, this and that is normal, absolutely can be conducted if we talk about the end of the war, russia's position was the usual traditional one, you know, jesuit, they, their formula, we never refused

to negotiate with ukraine, but the demands they put forward, they were completely unacceptable to us, they were actually capitulation and receiving the russians. even more than it was able to absorb and actually control, so of course this balancing act, diplomatic or political, it does not correspond to reality, it is clear that the kurdish counteroffensive operation, and i think that is a very apt term, not an invasion there or otherwise , benhoj proposed this, because indeed the entire territory of the russian federation is a legitimate target for ukraine. and it is clear that we have no intention of annexing these territories, so this is part of our, shall we say, general war, and it counter-offensive operation, it hit putin very hard, by and large, this is the first action of our

defense forces in a long time, the result of which was not only, well , at the moment, quite significant military results, this is also the territory that... under control , this is the replenishment of this exchange fund, and this accelerated destruction of russian forces and means, most importantly, these are dilemmas for putin, political, it is not for nothing that he called a counter-terrorist operation, what he is going to do in kursk, that is, he is not even in violation of his own law on defense was not declared by martial law, he did not introduce those legal and other mechanisms that would be required, are required... from him by russian legislation, well, by common sense, but he cannot do this, because this is the next step, it must be a general mobilization, and this is an extremely unpopular thing, now they can buy the poor from all corners of russia, they can send forces

to pull out mercenaries, wagnerians from africa from donbas, and if there is a general mobilization, it will affect the big cities, this is, of course, the so- called social contract, which ... putin anyone made an agreement with the russians that they would not get involved in politics, but he does not actually demand great sacrifices from them, he will be violated, of course it will be, it will affect his, let's say this, the stability of his regime, well, most importantly, putin's formula and in general all this russian camarilla, about the need for ukraine to recognize the situation on the ground, it does not work, because it means that he also has to recognize that part of his... territory, written in the constitution, which is recognized by the whole world, and of course ukraine, is under the control of ukraine, and it's clear that he can't do that, so i wouldn't say that anything has fundamentally changed, the russians were not ready for

real negotiations, we don't trust them, because they violated everything imaginable in terms of agreement and bilateral agreements and international law, what they will say now. this is just rhetoric, and it seems to me that we should not, let's say so, pay attention to it, and probably another very important point is that with our counteroffensive operation we discouraged our friends and those who doubted ukraine from two things: first to use what is such a phraseology that this war has come to a dead end, that ukraine is not even able to defend its territory and surrenders 100 m... per week of territory in the east, that is, this rhetoric is no longer relevant, because we have shown the ability to concentrate forces and means and conduct military operations absolutely in accordance with western standards, and the second point, this is about peace, again they tried to pressure us into certain

compromises, actually based on false ideas, which is, therefore, first and foremost a dead end, and secondly, that... well, any any war ends with negotiations, and the time has come for ukraine, which is tired, the ukrainians do not want to fight anymore, so here is a window of opportunity, thank god. that these two positions are no longer relevant now. mr. oleksandr, yesterday, when russia pretended to launch a massive attack on the territory of ukraine, putin held a meeting and spoke about the russian economy. the meaning of what putin said was that the success of the russian army in the war against ukraine is the main condition for the further development of russia. let's listen. a small fragment of what putin said.

today, i propose to discuss the main directions of economic policy for the period until 2030, including the strengthening of the economic base for the successful completion of a special military operation. this, as i have already said, is the main, basic condition for the implementation of russia's long-term development plans. did i understand correctly, mr. oleksandr, that in this case putin is saying that only by destroying ukraine do they have a chance for long-term development. of course, you know, there is a metaphor like a monkey has grabbed a nut and can't let it go because it is oppressed by greed and it doesn't can reach out from the suburbs, and russia is actually in such a position, because... now international sanctions are in effect, no matter how much we criticize them, and they really did not give

the result that we expected that russia would fall upon earlier , but it is clear that they undermine the russian economy in a strategic perspective, and russia will not be able to do basic things for several years. and the second point, of course, is that only with the end of the war can putin hope that this sanctions regime will begin to fall and russia will have a chance. and to use the western financial system and get technology and hope for the return of certain companies, so of course he is right about that, he is also right from the point of view that now up to half of the russian budget goes to war and war-related things, and starting, of course, with the actual weapons, those salaries and those additional payments to the military, but also those investments. which go to the defense-industrial complex, well, of course, everything is connected with the war economy,

and it is clear that even the russian economy, which is bigger than ours, which found an opportunity circumventing sanctions in certain matters, it still suffers from this war, and therefore only with the end of the war can these resources be somehow distributed and there can be hope for a return to a peaceful economy. well, plus, of course, putin would like to get access to our resources in the captured territories, and actually, let’s say this, you also know this, you can also use such a historical metaphor, how the mongol empire expanded, they captured certain territories, converted those people in those territories into the army, well, that's it actually possessed those resources in those territories, which were in order to... expand further, well, actually the model of the russian empire is constant expansion, they

need resources for this, and of course they use the resources of the conquered peoples, as human resources, so of course , natural resources there, or in our case it could be some infrastructure or enterprises there, so yes, putin is right, but i think that at the rate they are fighting, it is unlikely that this war will be finished, of course there are limiting factors and for... first of all, this is a restraining factor in washington, which actually does not allow us, let's say, to achieve the results that we hope for faster, so of course putin, putin is trying to show confidence, and i think also the factor of waiting for the arrival, maybe the arrival of trump should not be written off, because trump is very extensive, but constantly says that he agreed, he will... put pressure on both leaders of the countries and that he can actually end

this war in 24 hours, so all these things of course have an effect on putin, well, i'll probably say more such a moment, a few weeks ago the head of the central bank, navibulina, gave a speech, and of course, her speech was rather cold-hearted, i would say that despite all the bravado, despite the lies traditionally of russians... about the fact that russians, and the russian economy, they simply flourished during this war, on the contrary, she talked about big problems, and the most important problem is work... strength, because it is clear that now young people are being sent to be slaughtered in ukraine, part of intelligent russians, she simply took her favors and went somewhere to other countries, and that's it plus traditional russian xenophobia, racism, they push away representatives of central asia and other countries from russia, and it is clear that

they cannot replace the lack of labor, skilled labor in russia. codification, so he can plan something for himself there, but there are objective factors that will hardly allow him during the war to somehow even out the economy, so he actually hopes that it will be possible to do it after the end of this war. mr. oleksandr, sergey lavrov categorically rejects the possibility of negotiations between ukraine and russia, on the basis of zelenskyi's formula, he says that the event is now on its way. on the escalation from russia, we are talking about ukraine's intention to use stormshadow missiles for strikes on the russian federation, let's listen to what lavrov has to say. everything that is in a series of measures that promote zelenskyi's formula as

an alternative solution is, of course, only some dreamers in ukraine and in the west. can be seen as something that russia, sorry, pecks at. in parallel with what russia does not want to peck at, according to lavov, there is another initiative china, brazil, indonesia and south africa, and this was announced by the special representative of the chinese government for eurasia lihui. he said that there is a peace plan for ukraine, quoting lihuey, regarding the ukrainian crisis. this is what they call russia's war against ukraine, the three countries have positions similar to the chinese side, they support communication with both russia and ukraine, and remain committed to the political settlement of the conflict through dialogue and negotiations, that is, the cessation of hostilities there , this plan includes self prevention escalation of the conflict, expansion into new

territories, recognition that dialogues and negotiations are the only possible way to resolve the crisis, not the use of nuclear. well, this has been declared by china for a long time, judging by lavov's rhetoric, whether any format, negotiations with ukraine will at least somehow suit them or not, or they simply delayed and said that until we destroy ukraine, as they say, we will not hold successful special military operation, until then, we will not talk about anything at all. well, you know, the basic thing is what for in a normal, civilized world , diplomacy is a way to find understanding, compromises and establish peace or solve a problem. for russia, diplomacy is just another weapon of war. and therefore, of course, the russians can agree to play sino-brazilian games in order

to show their constructiveness, of course in quotes, in order not to lose the support of the chinese either. nor other countries of the so-called global south, by the way, in the financial times, yesterday or the day before yesterday, there was a very good note about the secret negotiations between wang-yi by the chinese foreign minister and jake sullivan, the national security adviser to the president of the united states, and there, in each and every meeting , ukraine was discussed, not only about the relations between these two great countries, but also... also about ukraine, and the chinese have taken certain steps to meet, but they are insufficient and are constantly exposed to criticism from the americans that, in fact, if china had not helped the russian federation, the war would have already ended, so of course putin must, let's say, take into account the chinese the factor is how much he has to show

readiness for some negotiations, but in fact in russia they do not, let's say, do not rely on diplomacy, they think that they can break us quietly in this war, a war of attrition , secondly, they hope that trump will come to power in the united states, it can either be pressure on us, or there can be chaos in the united states, and then there will be no help, or it will not be in time, and then other opportunities will open up, and then if there is trump in the united states, we cannot can even imagine what will... happen in europe, which on the one hand will be left alone with russia, on the other hand they will have to consider what to give to ukraine, how to help and what to spend on their own defense if... this umbrella the security of the united states will not be there, or it will be weakened, so i do not believe in negotiations with russia, and most importantly, i think the key thesis is this, this war

is genocidal in nature, genocide cannot be stopped by negotiations, the only negotiations that can help stop it genocide is negotiations on the transfer of weapons, other defense aid, humanitarian and economic aid, which in principle ukraine has been doing since the 22nd year, but without... average victories with russia, well, we can imagine the worst situations for ukraine, if, for example, by the end of the year, or there in the winter, we will have a critical situation in energy, if, let 's say, there will be failures on the fronts, and there may be some problems in the kurdish direction, then of course we as a nation and of course our leadership may face a problem and... will be forced to start some kind of dialogue there, but thank god, there are no such signs, and there is the determination of ukrainian society, a public opinion poll conducted

by the brazunkov foundation showed that despite the fact that it increased to 44%, the share of ukrainian society that believes that the time has come for negotiations, but the majority there, somewhere from 70 to 80%, are not ready to go to... territorial concessions of the russian federation, that is, people want negotiations, but are absolutely against any positions for which the russian federation is a starting point, because the starting positions are territorial ones, then there are restrictions on ukrainian sovereignty, this is not ukraine's accession to nato, i think that the russians also want to limit the possibility of ukraine's integration into the european union, here, well , we absolutely must not create any illusions, i think that there will be other requirements. in terms of domestic policy, this is the language, this is the legalization of the fifth column, including the gundyaevsky patriarchate in ukraine, so

it is clear that we cannot agree to such conditions if we are unable to further defend our country, if our partners are not turn away from us, but so far, thank god, i have not heard such notes from the europeans, and thank god that what is happening in washington now. election campaign, it still gives us hope that everything can be different, and those who can sacrifice ukraine at the expense of their ambitions will not come to power. thank you, mr. oleksandr, for the conversation, it was oleksandr khara, a diplomat, an expert on foreign and security policy, center for defense strategies. friends, we are going further, and i remind you that throughout the entire broadcast we are conducting survey, we ask you about this, have you encountered hostility... propaganda in telegram, yes, no, uh, everything is quite simple on youtube, either yes or no, if you have a broader and completely different answer,

write her please in the comments under this video, if you watch us on tv, take your expensive smartphone or phones and vote on the numbers 0800 211 381, yes, no, 0800 211 382, ​​all calls to these numbers are free, vote at the end of the program we like here are the results of this vote. voting is further in our contact volodymyr tsibulko, political analyst, writer, people's deputy of ukraine of the fourth convocation, mr. volodymyr, i congratulate you and thank you for joining the broadcast. congratulations, glory to ukraine. glory to the heroes. mr. volodymyr, today president zelenskyi said that he will present the prepared plan for the victory of ukraine, which includes various directions, to president joe biden in september, and will also hand it over to the presidential candidates. of the united states of america, meaning donald trump and kamala harris. let's listen to what zelensky said.

one of the directions, part of which has already been completed, is kurshchyna. and the second direction is the strategic place of ukraine in the security infrastructure of the world. the third direction is a package. coercion, a powerful package of coercion of russia until the end of the war, by diplomatic means, and the fourth direction is economic, i will not talk about all this in detail, the plan is prepared, i think it is fair, if i present this plan first to the president of the united states, the success of this plan depends on him, will give us what is in this plan or not. mr. volodymyr, are the ukrainians? should know what this plan for zelensky's victory is? well, i heard

maryana bezugla's handwriting in this speech. and why, because in essence, this, i would say, yes, this is a smoke screen, that is , someone from zelensky is very much under the spell of his international communications, especially, he talked to narendra modi, and narendra modi insists only through dialogue, only through diplomatic tools, so to speak, then information appeared that china, brazil and the republic of south africa also agreed on their, so to speak , outline of the plan, their proposals to ukraine and of russia well, the whole, the whole problem is that these plans, no matter how zelensky builds them,

still rest in... in putin's psyche, so it looks strange, after donald trump's statements that he will put everyone there for style change, about the fact that ukraine should not be given weapons, it looks, well, really wild, now, by the way, in some countries , all kinds of rallies are being held to stop providing weapons to ukraine, that is, it looks , well, immoral and ... scottish , because people go to rallies in order to help rape ukraine, that is, what they are controlled by these people, or zelensky is really determined to win, i am not sure, because what is being done in the ukrainian economy by the hands of his entourage is the destruction of ukraine, which does not bring us closer to victory, but

... mr. volodymyr, about this one, about the victory plan, about the need to present this plan there first to biden, as i understand it, and then to the participants of the next peace forum, which should be held at the end of the 24th year, and you are right about what and in under the conditions of putin's mood and attitude towards... who sees there is only one way, the way of capitulation of ukraine to russia, this is the only way to the peace that putin sees, whether what zelensky said, what he declares, is enough to force putin to go for peace ? this is not enough, first of all there are not enough initiatives of ukraine, in

ukraine there is a possibility. here we see, well, wonderful operations, for example, proletarsk, which caused damage to the russian regime to the tune of half a billion dollars, and strikes on airfields, but when zelenskyi trumped up a new one today missile, then i will remind you that in fact our missile programs as of the 18th and 19th years were in a fairly good condition, launched only after the 19th. year, some of these weapons were simply pickled, so when it is clear that something can be imposed on putin only from a position of strength, a weak ukraine, which is asking its partners for some kind of peace talks, this is not the right moment, so ukraine, to begin with, for that , in order to talk seriously about negotiations, it is necessary to drive away

the russian aviation by at least 300 km with our own weapons. from the zone clashes kursk is a small trump card in the negotiations with putin, i want to say, but for example, blocking any transit through the black sea and, well, with the suspension of russian shipping, this is a good trump card, not to mention the blocking of shipping on the azov as well, so here it actually seems to me that the ukrainian... government does not use even 10 of the possibilities of ukraine to put pressure on russia, in particular, it is necessary to put pressure on it, first of all, by stopping the supply of components for weapons, then it should limit the markets of gas, oil, especially oil, in every possible way to work on narrowing, here came india went.