ukrainian riot against the russian aggressors. dozens of enemy airfields were in the range of the latest drone missile. it is a ukrainian miracle weapon, which was developed in record time. telegram without a fool. the arrest of the founder of the popular messenger emphasized his role in the russian-ukrainian war. are ukrainians ready? speaking from an information platform with russian roots. glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program. my name is serhiy rudenko, i greet everyone and wish everyone good health. over the next two we talk for hours about ukraine, about the world, about the war and about our victory. and of course, let's talk about how the world reacts to the attempts of the ukrainian state to limit. activities, and

to put it simply, to ban the activities of russian religious organizations, which or religious organizations that are connected with the russian federation, and about how ukraine is already testing the first ballistic missiles that can reach the depths of the russian federation. during the first hour, the guests of our program will be people's deputy of ukraine mykola knyazhytskyi, aviation expert bohdan dolintse, as well as "the former head of the foreign intelligence service, general mykola malamush. in the second part of our program, which will begin in an hour, we will have political experts, valery dymov and vitaly kulyk. however, before starting our big conversation, i suggest watch the video of the large-scale fire from the night that continues at the atlas oil depot in the rostov region of the russian federation, ukrainian mass media, with reference to...

report that this is the result of a joint operation gurmo and special operations forces of the armed forces of ukraine, which once again successfully used ukrainian-made long-range strike drones. let's see. this is on m4, well, where the shaktinsky stone, millerovo, burns well.

glory to the defense forces of ukraine and death to the russian occupiers. friends, throughout our broadcast, we conduct a survey and ask you whether you are ready to give up or have already given up on the telegram platform. yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, if you have a separate personal opinion, please write it in the comments. below this video if you watch us in tv broadcasts, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote, if you are ready to give up telegram 0800 211 381, no 0800-211-382, all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. i would like to invite our first guest to the conversation, this is mykola knyazhytskyi, people's deputy of ukraine, chairman of the verkhovna rada subcommittee on cultural issues. politician and co-leader of

the verkhovna rada group on inter-parliamentary relations with the republic of poland. mr. mykola, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. hello, thank you for the invitation. well, first of all, since you are one of the authors of the bill on the regulation, regulation, legislative regulation of telegram's activities in ukraine, i will ask you how you feel about this story that is unfolding before our eyes, when pavel durov is detained in france by a frenchman. have claims against him, as against the founder and the owner of the telegram, that this telegram is not controlled by the french, and durov does not want to cooperate with the french police, regarding the distribution of child pornography there, the sale of drugs through this through this platform, and such a reaction of indignation from the side.

of the russian federation, is this not evidence that this platform was and remains the tool that russia uses against the whole world and, first of all, against ukraine. countries in the russian-ukrainian war, well, i am the author of the law on the regulation of all networks of access to information, telegram is one of them, this is not a separate law about telegram, and telegram itself is of course the same distributor of pornography, including child pornography, and a place where drugs are sold, both in france, and in ukraine, and in the whole world, this is one of the goals of its creation, and there is such a double situation, on the one hand, it is supposedly such a democratic resource that allows the opposition to fight authoritarian regimes, with one exception that it is russian, the servers are in russia and it is financed by russian oligarchs and the russian media write that its budget deficit is 600-700 million per year, this is huge money, who

would, why would give such money if he didn't have it no other desire, telegram is like what is the internet or what? the platform of access to information is a transport, so imagine that this is a driver who transports killers, prostitutes, drug dealers around the city and says: well, i don't know anything about this, yes, well, i know that they are taking someone to kill, well, them we have to get there somehow, and i’m here, why are they killing me, not me, that such a person would be responsible under the law in a normal state, of course, obviously, that’s why there are certain restrictions for a lot of people, there for tv channels, for newspapers, for people after all, so there must be some legal ones. rules for information access networks as well, and russia is very successfully using the fact that it is such a huge network where there are no rules, because if you are able to invest in your propaganda or in obtaining information about others, and russia invests there, i already said there under

a billion a year, then it is obvious, and if you throw in these materials themselves, then obviously it becomes a very good tool for russia to spread its propaganda and follow others, and we as a country with... which russia is at war with, for us it is an aggressor country, obviously should be more careful even than france, and this has been known for a long time, it is not even connected with the detention of durov, who, as they say, over he has been to russia 50 times since the age of 14, some say that he is being persecuted in russia, he is so persecuted, he escaped from russia, but he went there 50 times, that is a lot, if someone wanted to detain him there, he is there i was detained a long time ago, i flew to france once in recent years and was detained, so of course. of course, this is extraordinary for us a dangerous story with which we must draw lessons for ourselves. well, but we had the experience of banning russian social networks vkontakte, classmates, and then, by the way, in 2020, zelensky continued this ban, regarding the activities of these social networks, is it possible to go

this way here, because both vkontakte and classmates were banned for decision of the national security and defense council? theoretically. yes, from the point of view of european legislation, well, of course, it should be done better through laws, but since we have a war, then i of course, i support a complete ban, but you have to understand that the national security council of vkontakte cannot exclude classmates from our networks, they said it is bad to use them, and some providers have begun to block access to them in ukrainian, but if you install a vpn, and now a lot of people use vpnnom, this is a special program. which protects the transmitted information, i can identify you as french, english or even russian, with the help of a vpn you can use it, but the number of users has decreased significantly, because our citizens are law-abiding, if the state forbids it, then they do not use it, what could be done with telegram, from

the point of view of the laws of our practice, i would say so, it would be possible to do, whether or not telegram would be completely closed, i don't know, because technically it won't solve the issue, well, but there must be some kind of... government policy regarding the existence of such a big platform, because when we talk about the fact that we need to be in contact with telegram, and we want this platform to also contacted ukrainian authorities and went to contact, telegram is not reluctant to go to this contact, firstly, and secondly, almost all state authorities are present in telegram. and that is, the average viewer who is watching us now will say: well, i receive regular information on vkontakte about shelling , about the movement of missiles or in a telegram, in a telegram you mean, in a telegram, and the question is how to divide in this situation where

telegram is dangerous for ukraine, and telegram, which helps people navigate in this difficult time, well, it is dangerous everywhere. only this is a russian network, but where it is most dangerous, of course, if this network does not want to come into contact with the ukrainian authorities, then all state officials, state departments should not promote it. action should not collect its information through telegram chatbots, as other state services, national banks that are engaged in collecting personal information, use it, and both state and private banks should not use this network, in fact, about this is my law if they don't go on contacts, we limit sensitive areas of our society, these are state authorities, local governments, bodies that distribute or receive personal information about ordinary citizens, well , it cannot be regulated by law, therefore the law does not regulate it, the bill is mine, that is,

ordinary citizens they can use it, but this is already a matter of media literacy, to understand that you are using a russian network, which should be given credit, is written quite competently, it is not really convenient to use, there is a second way, which you started with, this prohibition through a decision of the national security council, i believe that this is a justified way, but there is none yet, since i personally work in the parliament without any distraction, the parliament has its limits of competence, we registered this draft law, it has been for a long time... it is simply not considered in any way. another important problem that is now facing ukraine is the reaction of the world, or rather, first of all, of pope francis to the decision to ban the activities of the moscow church in ukraine, or rather religious organizations that are connected to the russian federation, president zelensky said. that... the vatican's negative reaction to the law on the prohibition of the activities of religious organizations in ukraine associated with russia indicates

the need to strengthen kyiv's work in the global information space to defend a truthful position. let's listen to what zelensky said. there is an influence abroad , primarily in europe, on various religious institutions, and i believe that there is a lot of everything in the information space. the vatican is no exception. you know that because of... the apparitions of pope francis were different, and it is very important that what is happening in the field of information, very it is important not to lose contact neither with the vatican nor with italy, with the information space of all of europe and the united states of america. mr. mykola, what questions and problems arise with the implementation of the law that was passed. the verkhovna rada, which was signed by zelensky, well, the verkhovna rada adopts laws and

the government implements them, how will the government implement them, there is a month for it to come into force, we will see, the government has a task, i cannot criticize the government now, i hope which will perform as regards, you, by the way, regarding the law, yes, it really forbids the moscow, that is , the russian church in ukraine, and really the organizations connected with it, it is enough to break the connection and they can act absolutely calmly where they act, it is their choice. whether they want not to do it or not, the actions of the state will depend on this. the pope , of course, what the pope said , i am very sorry that he said that, because he could listen to the greek catholics, to his beatitude sviatoslav, who takes a completely opposite position, and says that this law is not against the church, but the law, which should free the church from russian influence and from the militarization of this church. it is a pity that the pope of rome did not say anything when gondyaev declared a holy war, but it should have been said. after all, in many countries such as latvia, much tougher laws have been adopted, which directly prohibit, in

fact order the metropolis to sever all ties with russia. and this latvian law is much stricter than ours, but the pope does not say anything about it. because, in this case, the pope, unfortunately, knowingly or not, takes the side of the enemy, who is waging a genocidal war against ukrainians, and i am extremely sorry for it. i do not think that this will affect the law in any way, i agree with what volodymyr zelenskyy said, that propaganda must be carried out abroad, because the russian church spends crazy money on lying about this law, showing, telling, as if we have christianity in general also prohibits speaking various other nonsense, and the ukrainian state must obviously make efforts to debunk these lies. but we already mentioned the national security council and defense, as a tool in the fight against... those who promote russian ideas and bring

russian peace here, and we saw these decisions of the national security council when medvedchuk's tv channels were closed, and we saw how the national security council made decisions regarding vkontakte networks and classmates, well, the russian orthodox church, a branch of the russian orthodox church in ukraine is also such a network, that is, in principle, a propaganda network that was created even during stalin's time, it is... the church was created in the form in which it exists, and what's more, now the primate this uocp church is a member of the holy synod of the russian orthodox church. isn't this a reason to say that this church is hostile to ukraine, and perhaps, again, not to go down this long road of nine months and a month for the entry into force of this law, that is, 10 months, or not wouldn't it be easier to pass through the council of national security and defense a decision to

ban the activities of organizations associated with the russian orthodox church. this is a very sensitive issue, we cannot be here, and so they, we, we did everything as loyally as possible, by the way, we did not wait nine months necessary, if they do not break the connection, the state can do it in three months, then they are obliged to sue, that is, if there are any conflicting situations, when it will be unclear whether they broke the connection or not, everything is with the kyiv metropolis it is clear, and there is no need to wait for anyone here, you can act promptly, or they can really break all relations with the russian church, it is their choice, what we have made is a law. absolutely true, because it does not expose us to security when there will be lobbyists of the russian language churches to pay various western politicians there to tell them that we are persecuting christianity, but in order for this not to happen, we have actually made a very effective, logical, law that complies with international conventions, if it is implemented, it

is very easy to ban the activity of all sects connected with russia, i would even say, because it is russian orthodox to call the church. i can't, the church does not call to kill one's brothers. president zelenskyi met with representatives of the ecumenical patriarchate, who arrived on a visit to kyiv, what zelensky writes after the meeting: we are doing everything we can to overcome the challenges facing the church in ukraine. in this direction, it is important that there really is stability and peace. well, let's hope that there really will be stability and peace, and the russian orthodox church will not have influence on... parishes located in ukraine and will not use ukrainian parishes to propagate its russian narratives. another topic, mr. mykola, is the situation that consists of regular, regular violations of polish airspace by

of the russian federation by drones, another story that from... took place on august 26, when there was a massive, there was a massive attack by the russians, and when a drone flew into the territory of poland, according to the deputy minister of national defense of poland cezary tomczyk, he says that poland is in a state of hybrid warfare. during the poland of the future conference, he stated that what we are facing today in poland is a de facto hybrid war, and we can directly say that poland is in a state of war, but in a state of hybrid war. so far , nato says that there is no information indicating that this is a direct attack by the russian federation on the alliance, and here and there it would be possible to argue

with the north atlantic alliance, but the question about our neighbors, about poland, they... are talking about that this hybrid war against them is already being waged, you, as a person who knows polish politics and polish politicians very well, what do you say, are they preparing for war with the russian federation and what is the current mood in poland? they understand that russia is their greatest enemy, and the representatives of both the government and the opposition understand this, are they ready for war, do they believe in it? i think they are er...careless about their own future and our common future, relying only on the armed forces of ukraine, and on the fact that putin will not move them, because they are members of nato. i think that there are no such limits for him. therefore, from my point of view, poland should cooperate more actively with ukraine, take care of its own security, the security of the european continent, and realize that

nothing will stop putin, not even poland's membership in nato. is poland ready for this? i have the impression that... it is not yet the end, they are thinking about it, but they hope that somehow it will not affect them, and it may affect them very much, and the poles also reacted to zelensky's statement that kyiv polish mig 29s are in great need, as they are well equipped and with them ukraine will not waste time on pilot training, polish defense minister władysław kosiniak kamys said that warsaw will be able to hand over to kyiv his could 9 only after receiving a more modern replacement, i will quote mr. kosinyak kamysh. i know that ukraine needs a lot of weapons, but our partners. from ukraine must also understand that the polish state must preserve its capabilities, and this is a priority for me, as the minister of defense, mr.

mykola, after the last visit, the last visit to ukraine, andrzej dud, can we say that these misunderstandings, which were between ukraine and poland, which we observed during the last year, that they are in principle are already a thing of the past. well, i certainly welcome the visit of the polish president, especially on independence day, it is extremely important for us, but one must realize for oneself that poland is a democratic country, there is a government, the president is in opposition to the government, all polish political forces are on the side of ukraine in this war, maybe with the exception of some small pro-russian parties there, which do not make any noise in the polish political system, should there be more cooperation between ukraine and poland, so at the same time for... you, what will you talk to military, then for our defense, if we are talking about repair companies, hubs, participation in the restoration of our equipment, in its

supply, poland does the most of all european countries, they do a lot for this, we must realize that, it is clear that we we would like them to do this more, there are many challenges before us in our relations, because in addition to security challenges, there are also challenges related to our european integration, there are challenges with... with the border, with agriculture, these challenges there are extremely many, with historical politics in the end, but our responsibility and the responsibility of polish politicians, sober, sober-minded, who see our common future, is to overcome all the problems posed by these challenges and together be the greatest ally in the european union, i think it will be . thank you, mr. mykola, for the conversation, it was mykola knyazhytskyi, people's deputy of ukraine. friends, we continue to work. live on the channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who are currently watching us live on these platforms, please subscribe to our pages and also take part in our survey.

today we ask you about this, are you ready to give up or have you already given up telegram, yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, if you have your own opinion, please write it in the comments below this video. if you're watching us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote the numbers if you're ready to say no. telegram platform id 0821381 no 08021382 all calls to these numbers are free vote at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote later on , we will contact bohdan dolinze, an aviation expert and manager of the aviation sector. mr. bohdan, i congratulate you, thank you for joining our broadcast. congratulations. well, first of all, let's talk about the f-16, because after the presentation. these planes, for a long time it was not clear whether they were flying in the sky of ukraine or not , and we saw that on the day of the air force, these

planes were shown, as they are already in the ukrainian army, and zelenskyi said about that during russia's massive attack on ukraine on august 26 , f-16 aircraft took part in the most massive repulse. that there is a combined air attack, let's listen to what zelensky said, the f16 is a very, very good result, a lot of people talked about it, but already within the framework of this huge missile attack, we shot down some missiles with the help of 16, and we thank our partners for what they gave us cf-16, of course this is not enough, it is enough, we don't have many of them. and we still need to train pilots. mr. bohdan, how can you measure the effectiveness of the f-16 in ukraine.

yes, well, look, first of all we have to understand that you will single out the work exclusively in the 16th from the general complex air defense system, today it will be practically impossible, because the information is unfortunately in limited access, and perhaps fortunately, here, and it is clear that... without internal information about the specific number of aircraft launches and downed targets, well, it will be difficult to evaluate their effectiveness, nevertheless, we can still try to evaluate this effectiveness by certain such related signs, that is, first of all , of course, this is the number of launched, the number of destroyed targets, that is, if we start from the data for august 26, that is, that more than two hundred targets of various types were fired there, and primarily we are talking about cruise missiles. and kamikaze drones, here, because we have to understand, the aviation component, it cannot destroy ballistic missiles, that is, there are no such aircraft and weapons that can intercept ballistic missiles, that is, aircraft

can only ... destroy only subsonic cruise missiles and corresponding drones such as dronkamycaket, then analyzing exactly these components of the attack on the 26th, we see that in general, 90% of all launched drones were destroyed by drones, and by the corresponding cruise missiles to sound, this percentage reaches almost 95%. well, in order to understand what has changed, we need to look at least at... similar attacks in previous periods, it is clear that similar attacks mainly took place in 22-23, here we see that there is an indicator of the destruction of enemy goals, as a rule, there were from 50 to 70, in extreme cases 80%, but nevertheless we understand that of course this result, which we have in recent days, it's not just f16, it's including western air defense platforms, i.e. nasam, siteriot, etc., that's why it's also necessary...

still, look at the data, for example, two months ago, and there we we see, when a small number of drones are launched there, then up to 50, as a rule, the percentage of destruction there is up to 100%, but as a rule, when these drones become more, the percentage already decreases, but as a rule it varied there 80-85% for drones, and if we talk about cruise missiles, as a rule, it accounted for 80-90% there. that is, judging from these data, we see that as of august 26, despite a much larger attack, the percentage of destroyed air targets has increased significantly, in some cases by 5%, in some by 10-15%, but we understand that it is still the merit of not only some aircraft or individual air defense complexes, it is the merit of the entire multi-layered air defense system built

in ukraine. that is, with the arrival of the f-16 in ukraine , our anti-aircraft defense has become much stronger stronger than she was before, right, to put it briefly? absolutely true, and most likely today , our air defense is probably one of the most effective in terms of the number of enemy targets hit, probably, than any air defense in the world. meanwhile , president zelensky said that ukraine continues to develop its military. in the industrial complex has already created its first ballistic missile, he said this during a conversation with journalists at a press conference on august 27, let's hear what said zelenskyi, who still has work to do in ukraine, well, i thought it was too early to talk about it, but i would like society to evaluate this, precisely our people who work 24x7 at

defense enterprises. there was a positive test of the first ukrainian ballistic missile, and i congratulate our defense-industrial complex on this. mr. bohdan, are we now talking about this sapsan project, which was once 80% ready back in the days when taran was the minister of defense, and this project, we remember that in 2013 under yanukovych there was frozen, and... the export, the export name of this project was called thunder 2, and this project is already more than a dozen years old, is zelensky talking about this now? well, look, we have to remember that even before the sapsan there was another complex called, if i'm not mistaken, borys fen, which became just the base for the creation of the future sapsan, and then the modernization to grim-2, but if we talk about the creation of ballistic missiles, we must

understand that... after the 1990s , only one was in service in ukraine ballistic missile, it was just a missile of the point u complex, here, later in 2020, the neptune sea-based missile actually appeared there, here, but it was still not the so-called operational-tactical-missile complex, which will be discussed soon after all, we are talking about today, and we must understand that the creation of a completely new missile complex from scratch is only the design part of the warehouse. there are about five dashes of seven years, and then all this transformation into serial production is another two to three years, and that's the minimum 10 years are needed from the start of work to the creation of the first serial samples, this is in the case when all the stars aligned there, the funding is all there, there is no shortage and there are no, for example, security risks, here, therefore, taking into account that ukraine already had some experience in creating of the project.