of ukraine were only preparation for the exam, the real exam, unfortunately, this terrible war became, and watching how my people pass this exam today, well, we all thank god for the fact that our people today, even in the context of this tragedy, e- er, they create. a political nation of a new type, and our independence is valued in a new way not only by ordinary ukrainians, not only by ukrainian society, but also by the world community. how will you explain, well, now about the explanation, for the first time during these more than 30 years, the huge influence on the minds of ukrainians committed by the moscow church. i will

confuse it with the moscow one, because their patriarchs were commemorated there, first alexy was there, then cyril, and they exerted political influence, they exerted financial influence, they cultivated oligarchs, they cultivated politicians, they campaigned for certain politicians simply in their churches , and - for a long time it was all perceived as, well, this is the choice of the people, we have such and such a church, the ukrainian orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate and... even a full-scale invasion of a thousand killed ukrainians, killed priests, by the way, the blessing of the moscow church, the weapons with which ukrainians were killed, all this did not immediately give rise to a decision to ban this church in ukraine, why it took so long for all this not to develop, why they could not simply put an end to it, and besides, in your opinion, people... who have gotten rid of or

will get rid of this moscow word, they will be tormented by its absence for a long time, as they say, or if they want god, they will come to you, to epiphany, to other priests, and will listen to the word god, everything will be fine, you see, the spiritual enslavement of ukraine began immediately, since the russian empire began step by step. to colonize the territory of ukraine, starting from the 17th century. the history of our church here is a vivid example: step by step, as soon as russia, the russian empire annexed new ukrainian lands, it began to destroy our church, and here is the final destruction of our church at that time. russian borders happened in 1839

, and it is obvious that then russia tried to russify this territory with the help of various symbols, even monuments, everything possible was used in order to approve this, you know, this, well , simply murderous and... ideology, orthodoxy, autocracy, nationality, and even then, the russian imperial authorities saw the church as a tool enslavement, and this i am very sorry to say, as a person who represents the church, it was such, i would say, a shameless instrumentalization of the church in the name of imperial interests and... then it is obvious that the church that

even lost the right to have its own patriarch , it turned into a state department machinery. metropolitan andrey sheptytskyi called it kazon orthodoxy. it was obvious that there was a minimum of spirituality and religion, and a maximum of loyalty and this kind of state control over her conscience. million people, for example, when this autocracy fell during the february revolution of the 17th year, i remember these statistics, when for the first time during the first world war , russian soldiers at the front did not have the obligation to go to confession, to at that time, everyone had to go to confession and receive a certificate from the father.

generosity, yes, and here for the first time there is no king, and there is no longer such a duty, naturally, then in the 17th year before pa'. in the russian army, only a couple of percent of the soldiers went to confession, and this caused a huge collapse in the ability of this church to control the sublimation of people, and then everything collapsed, that is, with the speed of a snowball, which simply washed away this church, and then already in the bolshevik revolution, on alas, all those consequences are entirely on yourself. ukrainians felt, in particular, when stalin revived the tool of manipulation, the religious feelings of believers in the soviet union, reviving the russian orthodox church, concluding a cooperation agreement with it,

raising it in a peculiar way, then it became an instrument not of the tsarist, but of the communist regime, eh, it was not surprising to us, i remember s... my childhood to see orthodox fathers with communist awards, and then the bishops of the russian orthodox church received state awards for closing churches, their own, ugh, we, then , children of the underground persecuted church , looked at it, well, really with horror, and that's when ukraine became independent, this independence nevertheless began to demand certain changes, we all today remember and know the term decommunization, so it spontaneously began to happen in western ukraine, that fall of lenin happened back in the 90s, here, but unfortunately,

the central, eastern, southern ukraine lived according to other rhythms, and now, when everything appeared... the neo-colonial face of the russian government and the face of the moscow patriarchate in ukraine, then the ukrainian people demanded decommunization, even moscow orthodoxy in the territory of ukraine. i do not want to go further into the analysis of these processes, because i may be accused of interfering. some orthodox events, but these are more political events, an ordinary citizen of ukraine at a certain moment said to himself, well, enough is enough, as long as you can fool us, and it is obvious that today the ukrainian

state feels its duty, in particular, in the conditions of a full-scale invasion, to take care of state security, even when it comes to threats to national security, which, therefore, come from the bosom of followers of the moscow orthodoxy in ukraine, so i think we should all be honest, honest before our own conscience, before the lord god and before the ukrainian people, if we really seek god and want to live a spiritual life, then this will be the road to liberation. to freedom, even to the decommunization of the church, even to those new demands that today's believing ukrainians make of their spiritual leaders, i can say this not only about the believers of the orthodox churches, but also about the believers of our church,

protestants and other churches, that is, we want to be a free people, and the church... as a medium of liberation here must fulfill its mission in new historical circumstances. you know, i remember such two moments that i witnessed in 90 there, in my opinion, it was the first year or so, somewhere at the very beginning of independence, alexy came to the second, in my opinion, and then he was the head of the russian church, and he was on the black volga, and people were shouting moscow pop, that's one thing, by the way, from the slogans of the period of independence, there's a hetma. kravchuk, it was one thing, because i went then, for example, to all these rallies before the verkhovna rada okay, but the moscow priest was there, and he was riding such a black volga, and people were chasing him in the center of kyiv, and they couldn’t escape, there was such a cavalcade of these cars, and they you, that is, people were chasing the moscow priest, that was the beginning 90s,

and then i remember 2000, god knows what year, when yanukovych was president, when kirill arrived, he was there, and this is such a golden crowd marching through the center of kyiv with... the moscow priest. during this time, the moscow church managed to plant and impose itself so much that from the time when it was driven, they turned into on the church that went from. volodymyrskaya hill, there is cyril ahead and all that, and no one could do anything, they seemed to reign here, but you see, now we are reaching the time when they are actually ending their history in ukraine, the most important thing here is that i would like your advice, i understand that this may not be your congregation now, perhaps it will be your congregation, for people who do not understand much, perhaps in politics, in state security, in danger from this church, well, i say it is ukrainian, but what about us we don't know there with moscow, they are not with moscow, but what about people... briefly and simply explain why you do not need the moscow word? i think that

our citizens of ukraine should, should, feel responsible for their church, and for what you hear, probably also, and why you believe, if you feel responsible. for his church, then that church will be able to change. i can proudly say about the active laymen of the ukrainian orthodox church. and we are happy that as a church, we are changing, we are growing, we are looking for new ways, new forms, how to be a church, how to serve god and people in new circumstances. we are happy having wise, active, conscious,

responsible lay people in our church who can be relied upon. and today, the ukrainian greek-catholic church is not some cold hierarchical structure, it is a living network community, which today encompasses the network of presences. many countries of the world, we would very much like to share our experience of church life, even with our orthodox brothers, do not be afraid, do not be afraid to be active, your fathers cannot be your slave owners, do not be slavish in front of spiritual officials. be able to be open, free, only then you will be able

to change the church whose children you consider yourself to be. i think that lay people, ordinary orthodox believers today can be a catalyst for change in some churches. unfortunately, it so happened that russia tried to subvert... those post-soviet countries with the help of corruption, the same thing happened in ukraine, they believed that political corruption, financing of various kinds of pro-russian political organizations and movements, which were engaged in restoration of various kinds historical so -called events, it was soft power, so soft a force with which they wanted to re-colonize. including ukraine, and here we saw that,

therefore, the moscow patriarchate very actively began to feel itself a component of this entire corrupt system. we see that in russia there was a merger of corrupt secular power and church power, this symphony, it took on such, well finally... i would say, uh, disgusting forms, the merger of the throne and the throne, it led to the ultimate loss of moral authority of the same church, even in russian society, and it was projected, as a model of state-church relations for e-e ukraine. it was about her moscow orthodoxy as a state church, and we saw how moscow politicians behaved and behave today in relation to this

type of her church existence, in particular also in ukraine, and here all those triumphal patronages, you know, about who are you, whom you mention, and it has already begun to fill everyone's mind, eh , i would like us to remember one such delicate reality today, today a huge number of... faithful to the moscow patriarchate feels betrayed by his church. i talk to many of them. they feel that the one who was supposed to be... their father has become their enemy, the one who was supposed to care for them, ultimately betrayed them, that doesn't mean that those betrayed, er, wounded people will immediately seek of another denomination, they will go to one or another of her churches. i now have the feeling

that many of those wounded, aching hearts, they will generally... depart from the church, and ukraine may face a very powerful wave of secularization, that is, a new kind of atheism and atheism, exactly as it happened in tsarist russia after, means the overthrow of the tsarist throne, and with it the power or power over the people of the russian orthodox church. i would like you to clarify for our viewers the issue of behavior, well here to a lesser extent the behavior of the statements, actions of the head of the vatican, the head of the roman catholic church and the person who sits on the holy throne, because

not all people understand why it seems like peace , there is somehow not such an unequivocal support... regarding the condemnation of the actions of russia, or again of the same moscow church, there is some kind of attempt to combine a ukrainian man and a russian woman or something like that, to make some kind of flash mob that seemed to give some idea of ​​reconciliation, and people think that he is for us or for whom, or how to explain it, well, as they say, just explain, why, what is the difficulty today, perhaps the role it performs. pope francis, and perhaps those things that we do not see, but he also does and they are very important in the humanitarian sphere and are important. well, all the complexity, perhaps, today of the role and mission of the most holy father of the pope, as universal bishop, it is like being

a preacher of peace at a time when the third world war is about to begin. a war in particles, these are his words, that is, how today, let's say, be the one who should serve reconciliation between peoples, when peoples begin to fight with each other, this is also the complexity, maybe a certain tension between the local and the universal, it is obvious that we feel, what's going on... many problems of the whole world look different to ukraine. we understand today that er, reconciliation between er, aggressor and victim, is possible only when that aggressor stops, when the world

the community will condemn him, when that aggressor is forced to... compensate for the wrong done, only then can there be a dialogue, a dialogue which, let's say, someday, i hope, it will culminate in what we call healing of wounds, and therefore reconciliation, that's why it all such very difficult questions, but let's let the pope be the pope, and we ukrainians will be. ukrainians, i think that everyone will understand everything and us, including when we really win in the battle that we are waging, because maybe this is our so-so mission, to unmask the devil who today pounces on us, to expose that moscow, which today is no longer the bearer of high

culture, but the bearer of the, er... the latest genocidal ideology, because unfortunately, today the world er has the same danger, er, in which was, let's say, before the beginning of the second world war, let's remember that time in europe, everyone wanted to prevent the escalation of the world conflict, remember chamberlain and... who was so happy with that piece of paper, they supposedly satisfied the aggressor, they gave him a part of some country there, and now he already satisfied his appetites, then... for an average european, the word germany was associated with high culture, philosophy, music, and the nazis were in power, and then at

the end of the second world war, everyone was horrified to ask themselves how this became possible that such a civilized, cultured people committed the crimes of auschwitz. and he committed genocide against an entire people, which we call the holocaust today. the same is happening today in relation to russia. russia, in particular, after the collapse of the soviet union, it invested huge amounts of money for to spread the illusion of their high culture. today, when someone is looking for an expert. to russia will always come across an adept who was brought up on the illusion of the greatness of russian culture, and therefore always,

when they hear about russia today, they will first of all consider it in the categories of their own illusory thinking, without asking themselves what is really happening in russia, in russia today there is actually a ee... i would say such a neo-colonial genocidal regime that has nothing to do with examples of high russian culture, from dostoevsky or others the so-called classics of russian culture, in this culture, there are no more today, eh, and this is a certain shock that the west may be experiencing today, all those who consider themselves experts, and this is our, perhaps, historical role, this is all from... unmask , to warn the world, to close it before this huge danger, so i hope we

will fulfill our role, we will win, and then everyone will understand us, i am convinced that the lord god today is always on the side of those who are victims of unjust aggression. that the lord god is near, near us, you said that god with us, i would like to finish with this question, because many people ask today, where is god and why is he with us, and how jesus was asked whether his parents sinned, or he, why is he blind, and so on people will ask who sinned, articles are written, intelligent people write, explain why we deserved this war in quotation marks, and say, so what, who, who sinned, so... i would like you to say yours word, here it is important for people to understand where god is, if i do not see him, do not feel him, all this is happening, and why do we need this, well, until the end

this is a question we will answer, maybe at the end of history, when the whole process will take place, then we will see everything in its entirety, but now it is christians who have the key to interpret this reality, why? because we believe in a suffering god, not the god who is somewhere far away, somewhere in the heavens, in his kingdom, no, but the god who became a man. we believe in the son of god, who entered human history, took on a human body and voluntarily went to the cross. that is, today we christians... see the suffering christ in the suffering of every person, i want to share with my own, maybe my own spiritual

experience, you know, when i visit our wounded guys, or even civilians who have suffered injuries, as a result of bombings, you know, well, it's just some kind of truly paramilitary awe in front of suffering. people in ukraine, who have a real presence of god, sometimes i caught myself thinking, you know, seeing those wounds, i say to myself, jesus, it is you, i see you in this person, and indeed, today christ is suffering in the flesh of the suffering ukrainian people, therefore those... pains and sufferings of our savior in the body a suffering ukrainian, this is how christians are motivated to acts of mercy. they call us. not just

to honor human suffering, but to protect human life, that is, this is some kind of, i would say, truly religious motive of all our social service, all that we do to protect, save human life in the name of god, it is not some such usual, i would say, philanthropy. and this is truly deakonia, that is, service, service to god through service to a person in need, and this experience is not only my personal, but the whole of our church, you know, no one ever asked in our communities, in our parishes, what church you go to, what language you speak, when we saw

people in need. a wounded person, a refugee, a person who needs to be helped, warmed, er, or maybe even advised, how to proceed further in life, in life, here, and this is the secret of stability, i am convinced that this is not the abstract but very concrete presence of god among us, in particular through, through her... his suffering in the wounds of ukraine, this is a very, very deep, i would say, foundation for the proclamation of christ's gospel, christ's gospel today in ukraine. that is why we say, god is with us. god is always in the one who suffers. there is such an early christian sermon from the second century, even from the persecuted church, which said

that christ is killed in everyone who will be killed until the end of the world. christ was present in joseph, who was sold into egypt, christ was present in abel, who was killed by cain in the old testament. and today he is present in every person who is in need, weak that is why we read in the gospel. from matthew about the terrible judgment, says christ: "what you did to one of the least of these, you did to me." therefore, er, we christians know where god is present, we see him, and we want to serve the lord god and our long-suffering but heroic people. thank you, bishop sviatoslav was with us,

head. of the ukrainian greek catholic church, and i also congratulate you on the independence day of ukraine and your entire christian community, well, i ask you to stay with the espresso tv channel, it will be interesting from now on. vasyl zima's big broadcast. my name is vasyl zima, this is a big broadcast on the spresso tv channel. two hours of air time. two hours of your time, i and my colleagues will talk about the most important thing, two hours to learn about the war, about the military, front-line component, serhiy zurets, and what the world is like. yuriy fizar is already with me, and it's time to talk about what happened outside of ukraine. yuriy, dobryvechir, two hours to keep up with economic news. time to talk about money in wartime. oleksandr morchavka field with me and news sport i invite yevhen pastukova to the conversation. two hours in the company of your favorite presenters.

chikchenin's cultural news is our art review. about the weather for this weekend, as well as distinguished guests of the studio, mustafa dzhemilov, leader of the crimean tatar people, in touch with us, mr. mustafa, greetings, good day, events of the day in two hours, vasyl zima's big broadcast, a project for intelligent and those who care, in the evening for espresso. mr. taras, thank you very much, first of all, for agreeing to the interview, well, you are already used to everyone calling you a legend, and i congratulate myself the fact that i finally met a legend, i am your supporter for a very long time, but we are talking about the days of independence of ukraine, and when they talk about the day of independence, they always touch more on the past, it is history, achievements, heroes, and i am all from...