a full-scale war has been going on for a year, the war started by russia has been going on for the 11th year, the aggression started by russia against ukraine, if we speak as of now, ukraine has defended its independence, subjectivity, sovereignty and issues only in return of these or other territories, or the question is precisely in the defense and in the election of both subjectivity and independence. it seems to me that if you make such an excursion in 30... 33 years, then a miracle will happen, i think that not just a lot, but i think most of the people in the world, i would ask them to find them on a map they would look for ukraine on some other continent, but today being ukrainian is beautiful, proud, starting from the highest politicians, especially in europe. everyone is paying

attention to the fact that this is not just a nation, it is a cool nation that is filled with principles that are the envy of many. obviously, we ourselves understand that for almost 300 years of this moscow rule, where everything national was excluded from us, everything is identical. we were accustomed to foreign heroes, to a foreign culture, to a foreign custom, to a foreign memory, to a foreign church and so on, and so on, there is no end to this, but after all, after 300 years, we raised our heads, remembered that we are a nation, that we had one of the largest states in europe, which was 800 years before any muscovy, and in other words , we learned this course of national establishment and...

learned that from generation to generation we passed on not just this dream, not just this dream, it's like genetics, it's already in a spiral and was passed on to each subsequent generation, and in each subsequent generation there were my leaders, i have many times in polemics, in discussions, here i give an example, for 20... century, to be more precise, from november 17 to august 1991, we proclaimed independence six times, in different interpretations, six times, and look, carpathian ukraine held out for a day and a half and was taken away from us on the red field . the bandera state lasted almost three days.

listen, well six, six times, it says a lot that this is the code, this is the code of the nation, and so when we're talking today about 33 years of the latest independence, actually, you know, this is our longest national journey in recent 300 years, from the cossack state, from vegovsky, and this in itself is surprising. and if we remember that during 300 years of statelessness, 171 times we were deprived of the right to speak the ukrainian language, to have our own alphabet, to have our own writing, then remember the dream of taras hryhorovych, and we are talking about the time, the middle of the last century, the greatest dream of taras hryhorovych is you. to write

a primer in the ukrainian language, you all know, it hurts the heart, we only got our primer one and a half hundred years ago, before that we were not given either liturgy or the right to speak our language, language, or wear your shirt, god forbid, if the not-yet-dead ukraine sings, well, magadan, magadan. and there , all this taiga and tundra are covered with white ukrainian bones, so actually, you know, i am proud of the fact that such torments are common, i think, most nations would not have survived, and we also went through the difficult school of our service against the greatest evil in the world, against russian fascism, against...

the greatest chemical pure evil in general, which can be in today's history, this is the moscow occupation that is going through today ukraine. it became such a learning page for europe and the world, because if you think about it and give an answer in conscience, putin as the world knows it today was actually brought up by western politics, putinization, which was adopted by europe, is a product of the latter, well, maybe there are 17. years, 15 years, when europe mindlessly paid putin 1 billion dollars every day, violating all norms that were adopted both nationally and europeanly, regarding energy quotas on the regional market, violating everything, bringing 1 billion per

day, this is, of course, what led putin to schizophrenia, to... recklessness, to the loss of the last parts of his mind, when in fact the world appears a version of fascism of the 21st century, this is what happened before our eyes, and on the other hand, that a feat that our nation is doing today, and a nation that 30 years ago, or rather 35 years ago, when in the 90th year there was a vote for the ukrainian parliament, the ukrainian nation cast 239 votes for the moscow barefooters, and that was the name of the group 239, yes group 239,

passes a few more months in the spring, march 1991, when the ukrainian nation is asked, are you generally there for the union, why do you need all of independent ukraine? more than 70% of ukrainians say: "yes, yes, we are in favor of a renewed union, it probably takes another six months to reach december." 91% of kurynskyi, no, no, no, no, we are for a sovereign, independent ukraine. this can be analyzed politically, as in 12 calendar months, the nation was in a state when... flocks walked, voted for evil, because red, red russia, bolshevism, this is a separate breed of moscow slavery, which was for 73 years

installed in ukraine, the time is coming, and we will vote for them again, so what's more, excuse me, in 1998, if i'm not mistaken, how many ukrainians voted for the communist... party of ukraine in the verkhovna rada of ukraine? we can formally say that the section of the communist party has been preserved in the ukrainian parliament for the longest time, you won't find them in europe with a magnifying glass, where are those communists? in ukraine, they still reigned and were not just in the parliament, but were the golden card of the parliament, they were lured by money to vote for any law, which, who 2.5% needs dozens of votes there, but that’s it, you have to go to the communists, they are sold at every step, well, i’m talking about how the ukrainian nation has matured in these 33 years, like us from that world, which we don’t even know about i want to talk about which, to be honest

, i'm ashamed to talk about, because you know, living in europe and having terrorists in the parliament at the beginning of the 20th century. the organization of the communist party of russia, and it is, there was never a communist party of ukraine, it was a branch of the russian communist party, because the soviet union is russia, it is not yes, then in general you approach what is colossal, we have come a long way in these 33 years, i understand how a large part of people can... be dissatisfied with something, but in general it can be said that this is a great progress, and if we had this sense of national awareness that we have today, we would was in the 90s, i think we would be

where poland is, where lithuania is, even where bulgaria is, even where romania is, we would be... in a different class of political system organization, we have if there were other friends, other partners, that is, they would be better off somewhere else. in the best sense of the word. at the same time, you are talking about the fact that in the struggle we are currently waging against russia, and i emphasize the word russia, because this is evil russia, it is not only putin, because putin feeds on the same russian swamp. what is called the russian people is an instrument of legalization of putinism as such. that's why you can't separate this one negative personality, the absolute evil -

this is putin, and on the opposite side, the institution of nobility - the people of russia, no, no, he gave birth to putin, he gave birth to lenin, he gave birth to stalin, he gives birth to all evil, but how to say, i don't want to do a deep analysis of what is being done. in russia in that swamp, and i would like to talk more about ukraine, and when you remember the lessons of our liberation struggles, the lessons taught by our best minds, well, for example, like taras hryhorovych, shevchenko, when he writes this , turning, it seems to me that he is behind my back. of ukrainians stands even today and says this: my dear country is innocent,

this word is innocent to me, every time it surprises me, where taras hryhorovych took such a deep, apt and pure word: my dear country is not guilty, for which the lord punishes you, punishes you severely, for bohdan and... for mad peter. in other words, taras hryhorovych wanted to say: ukrainians, if you want to dig, where is the root of your misfortune, where is it buried? this is russia. or the fifth column that is forming in ukraine, this bohdana, or crazy petro, or vladimira, or yosypa, no, no, no, no, it's not so important. that's why every national movement that we had basically started with one

slogan, away from russia, if you want to be happy, stay away from russia, don't argue, that there is something cheaper, that there is something bigger, that there is something more accessible, away from russia, and therefore, when this picture based on the history of mykola hryhorovych... a new one, who was not allowed to write for years, in the end, this ukrainian genius reaches a dead end, he invites his friends, his sister, his mother-in-law, who still lived in the house, come to me tomorrow, i will show you how to write, they came, but this unrealized talent, wait for me a minute. went to another room and shot himself,

that is, i am leading to the fact that this independence, this sovereignty, this self-awareness in which we live today, this is a fantastically great ukrainian work, this is what then gives such nourishment to various spheres and necessarily to the material sphere, to our development, social prosperity and others. which may come later, but this is necessarily the phase of the state when we become whole, internally consolidated, and we solve those problems that maybe two or three hundred stood as a problem before ours, we will talk about the economy later, because i will your opinion is very interesting as a person who was once recognized the best banker in the world, what a year it was, it is true, but such a story definitely... there was and i remember it, because i lived in those times and already followed

your story in the position of prime minister, it was not just of course, now is the war, now is probably the most difficult time in the entire period of independence, but before that i would like to ask you as a person who did not just communicate with putin, he came home, ate borscht, in my opinion, even, and you said a very good phrase , that money made him stupid, that is, material things ceased to exist for him... of some importance, he obviously decided to go down in history, but i am interested in your opinion on how to stop him, and therefore all of russia, and whether there is, whether this understanding reaches world leaders, here is this... individual, as the late kozlovsky said in "a prisoner and a writer, he said that this is now more of an infernal personality, what is putin, of course, i cannot speak neutrally about putin, i say evil, i say it as revenge, a reasonable person cannot behave like this in these circumstances to which he

convinced the country to act. i think over 25 years ago, he created the most unsuccessful project for russia, how to destroy such a country as russia, and i am convinced that one of the formats of victory in today's war is not only how to reach mykhailivskyi khutor, ukrainian troops and stop there, it is not about this, if we leave the evil called putin, and with him putin's russia, fascist russia, where putin is fed like the energy of 145 million little putins, and this is the beginning of the source of putinism, this is the blessing that they give. yes, if we let's stop at mykhailivski farm, it will be a big mistake. i don't want to say

that physically we should remind about... a wedge, a crimson wedge, a yellow wedge, a gray wedge, the ukrainian taganrog, the ukrainian bilhorod, the ukrainian kuban, well, in one word, i wanted the whole it is impossible to name a number of extreme territories where the ukrainian presence is, it is centuries-old, centuries-old, this is not what we are talking about now, we are not talking about this dimension. geography, we are talking now, if europe, if the world does not understand that there can be no victory, at which putin's regime continues to exist, that there is no negotiation process, when president putin is sitting in one of the chairs, this is the first

sign that you have lost. that you give some means of nourishment to this mess, you don't need it, i'm talking about the portuguese or the germans or the french, you don't need it, it will take you tomorrow. in what form? let's not guess now, i just want to say one thing that today, if you haven't solved the topic of security, you haven't solved any of the issues that you have on the agenda, and security is such a... that knows no borders, regardless of whether you are 600 km away, or 10 thousand, or 15 km away, and therefore, obviously, a big challenge for the world today is how correctly formulate the definitions of exit from the war brought by putin.

i just want to emphasize one thing, so as not, no, there, not to generate any prejudicial discussions. the presence of putin at any conference, the presence of the need for putin's signature on behalf of the prison of nations does not give the answer to our victory, it should not be left for tomorrow, and then we quietly coming to thoughts that i think are very undervalued in today's world i'm afraid. or i am afraid that the syndrome that we experienced in the 90s, when the president of the united states arrives from the rostrum of the parliament, says in 93 that ukrainians, you should not try to create sovereignty, and george bush,

from whom everyone expected support, absolutely, on the streets of kyiv for three months and... thousands of rallies for independence are taking place, the president of the largest democratic state is coming, he says: don't you dare to do this, don't dare to me, and i'm sorry, that he stopped by my way to kyiv then after moscow or to moscow, well, in any case, it was a visit on the way, i know that the speech he gave in the verkhovna rada on the way from the airport to leonid makarovich, well, yes. .. or theses or verbally, what he wanted to say, as if he agreed with leonid makarovich, as the head of the verkhovna rada, well , in one word... i have a heavy feeling that today the world has stopped , including the european world at the crossroads, if

we see tomorrow after the end of this war in the bosom of russia, in the russian model, in her presence on this political field, i think we are making a huge mistake. a huge mistake, we are making the time-out that putin needs most today, in order to then come to the borders of poland, slovakia, bulgaria and continue to carry out the evil deed for which he saw the russian mission, when, you know, on one and the same question, where is the end of russia, where, where. and borders from peter i, we hear such a historical anthology that the borders of russia are where its

interests end, a good wording, then the wording of putin in the 2000s, or rather it was in 2006, at one of the speech conferences expressed by his wife. reports that were written in the kremlin, and she voiced the position of the kremlin. russia ends there, guys, where the russian language ends. for the past three months, putin has been conducting an optional history course, a regular one, and there he asks a boy, seven or eight years old, where the borders of russia end, and the guys try it. to remember geography, to name something correctly, where are those borders, he approaches it like this, smooth heads, and if

rescues him from this impasse, and gives advice to the drunken russian nation, remember, russia has no borders, so how do you come up with this philosophy, it's not a joke, well, as a president, the president of the country, exits, every word, it is official, and he says that his state, which occupies 1/8, which leads today, maybe 10 wars, maybe even more, and count how many wars there are in africa, count africa, count that caucasus, count eastern europe, and it is a country that is a member of the united nations, the highest security organization world organization, chaired. a member of the security council, a permanent member of the security council, this is a country, an aggressor, this is a country where its leader is recognized

as an international criminal, at every step in europe the criminal putin is wanted for a photo and so on and so forth, and we live in such a world, this is a country which formally did not even undergo formal acceptance as a member of the united nations organization, well, listen, what is this? this is the world, so this is what i am leading to, that no one can practice the answer with such a russia, sit down with him today negotiations, this means that munich will be repeated in 1938, do you remember when chamberlain flew in, waved a sheet of paper and said, i brought you a measure while you were walking, i worked diplomatically, great, i brought you a measure, that's why you're doing it. france said, and here we are now, listen, we need red lines, we need to listen, that this executioner of peoples, prisons

of peoples, he says, warns, this is a territory where more than 100 indigenous peoples live under the cover of colonialism, where they die every two years someone's native language, listen, we... in a terrible world we are in fact, and therefore, when in europe they try to form some kind of tolerance, that it is possible to make an agreement with this evil for several years, this is a very wrong policy, on the other hand , ukraine gives you an example of how to fight for your sovereignty, for your independence, as in general, in fact, to be the armored car of europe. how is it possible, in other words, to enter the territory of the aggressor's country and force putin to read something from a piece of paper with trembling hands, gathering

his generals and not knowing what to do, it turns out. yes, it was possible, here again still, they do not understand what it will all lead to, but we understand that ukraine sometimes shows, just such an example to your words that europe does not know what to do with putin, but at one time in the battle of peregavgamel , alexander the great showed what could be done with the persian empire, destroying an army that was ten times larger, on the floor it was not possible to destroy the world of empires, but the world of empires collapsed 100 years after napoleon, that is, now without taking a certain step we will simply drag it out in time, then maybe be. paragraph number one: do not look for a partner in putin, he never will be, he is a speculator who will use today's historical position to knock on your door tomorrow, and therefore, be wiser, although it is more difficult to do, certainly those things about that we say that the answer to how to democratize russia, i do not find it in the answer that

will come... one ideal democratic force, which will now be supported by 144 million russians, i take this as a conditional number, there is no such force and there never will be, in in the dictatorship regime, this force feeds putin and his power very well. its the junta, the trouble of russia, by the way, is not only, maybe russia, putin's evil triumphs, not because there are so many in russia, and it is so strong, what we call evil, i think, in the formula of putin's existence, the strongest point is that in russia... there are more

indifferent people, and indifferent people, they automatically close with evil, and it, and it triumphs, and it is because of indifference, you know, when you, when you go out on the tver boulevard and become like this near the monument to the ukrainian prince long-armed, you are arrested when... today we are talking about a world that information, where instant eyes are exchanged, billions of megabytes of memory, more than 1,000 journalists in russian prisons, several thousand political prisoners of all levels, local and up to the highest, this is a country that lives among us, how are you going to

arrange your future? with such non-humans, in general, do you not feel the danger with this indifference that exists in russia, which is brought up as a political system, not a single state institution works there, there is no parliament, neither an upper house , nor a lower house, it is a printer that will be for you to issue any regulations by the evening, any, open a new war in 15 minutes. the document is already signed by putin, any evil, it will be so large-scale that the community, political, whether in the middle of the country, or in europe, or in the world, has no way to stop it. sooner or later, we want to come to terms with the kind of political system with the kind of leadership that exists in russia today.