it was shown like the sun rising from the horizon, the ukrainian greek-catholic church came out of the underground, which became, as it were, this stone that hit those clay feet of that soviet colossus, it simply crumbled. we understood that independence, our state is a gift from god, a gift, as god's answer to the eyes... the centuries-old struggle of our people, which we call today national liberation, the crown of these struggles was the martyrdom of the ukrainian greco-totholic church, in particular during the communist era regime, so the people thanked but this gift had to be kept, we all saw that this state, which was born after the collapse. of the soviet union, it is still

a post-soviet state, that freedom is a multifaceted concept, it has not only some legal or political meaning, but first and foremost a moral one. in christian philosophy and theology, we are always used to talk about freedom in this double meaning, freedom. and freedom for speaking about our national freedom, so we talk about the independence of the beginning, so it is freedom from enslavement, freedom from those neo-colonial encroachments of moscow, which today especially manifested all their bloodthirstiness during this full-scale invasion.

but it is also freedom, for this freedom you still need to be able to use it correctly. we, as christians, have been convinced many times that freedom is the ability, the opportunity to do good. if we use this opportunity, the opportunity to choose good, for evil. then we can easily lose this gift of freedom, so, let's say, this period, which we call the young, independent ukrainian state of the 90s years, the path of transition from post-soviet ukraine to a truly democratic state opened before us, and this period was very difficult, he noted. several revolutions, when

the people did not want to lose their independence, but took responsibility for their freedom. true freedom is always associated with responsibility. and here it seemed that we all really want to use the fruits of that independence, but not everyone is able to take responsibility for it. are ready, and here i think that the role of the church and churches in the process of transformation of ukraine, in particular, is very important our church immediately began educating its people, educating them to dignity and freedom, to responsibility for their state. i recall the words of my predecessor, his beatitude lubomyr e. in

the first days of the orange revolution, because some in power said that a crowd had come to the maidan, earlier lubomyr said: "no, this is not a mob, these are responsible citizens who not only exercised their free and free democratic choice, coming to vote, these are citizens who are ready to defend their vote." i remember his performance on the second maidan dignity, and when, oh when, this event happened, which we will call the revolution of dignity, well, this responsibility for dignity, it manifested itself at an even higher level than during the times of the orange revolution. it is obvious that to educate citizens to realize their dignity. this is

already a revolution, that is why this process of transformation of ukraine from a post-soviet state to an arbitrary democratic state. building a society that is not only free from, but free for, this process is still going on, i think the war we are going through today, it is still one stage of this process, but i have such a feeling that all those previous years of the construction of independent ukraine were just the end. to the exam, the real exam, unfortunately, was this terrible war, and watching how my people take this exam today, well, we all thank god

for the fact that our people today, even in the context of this tragedy, they are creating a political nation. of a new type, and today our independence is evaluated in a new way not only by ordinary ukrainians, not only by ukrainian society, but also by the world community. how will you explain, well, now about explanation, vasper, that during these more than 30 years, uh, the moscow church had a huge impact on the minds of ukrainians, i will call it the moscow church in general, because... their patriarchs were commemorated there, first alexy was there, then cyril, they exerted political influence, they exerted financial influence, they cultivated oligarchs, they cultivated politicians, they campaigned for one or another politician simply in their churches, and for a long time it was all perceived as, well, this is the choice

of the people, we have this and that church, ukrainian there is a conditional orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate, and even a full-scale invasion. thousands of ukrainians killed, priests killed, by the way, the blessing by the moscow church of the weapons with which ukrainians were killed, all this did not immediately give rise to a decision to ban this church in ukraine, why could not it all be born for so long, why could they not simply put an end to it, and before that, in your opinion, the people who got rid of this moscow word will be tormented by its absence for a long time, as they say, or will they, if want god, they will come to you, to epiphanius, to other priests, and listen to the word of god, everything will be fine.

well, you see, the spiritual enslavement of ukraine began immediately when the russian empire began to colonize step by step. e-e territory of ukraine, starting from the 17th century. the history of our church is a vivid example here. uh, step by step, as soon as russia, the russian empire annexed new ukrainian lands, it began to destroy our church. and here is the final destruction of our church in the then russian borders. happened in 1839 year, and it is obvious that then russia tried to russify this territory with the help of various symbols, even monuments,

everything that was possible was used in order to approve this, you know, this, well, simply murderous ideology, eh... and already then the russian imperial authorities saw the church as an instrument of enslavement, and i am very sorry to say this, as a person who represents the church, it was such, i would say, a shameless instrumentalization of the church in the name of imperial interests, and then obviously that church.. . which even lost the right to have its patriarch, it turned into a department of the state machine. metropolitan andrey sheptytskyi called it the orthodox orthodox church. it was obvious that there was a minimum of spirituality and religion, and a maximum of

faith-based such kason state control over the conscience of millions of people. for example, when this autocracy fell, during the february revolution of the 17th year, i recall these statistics. when for the first time during the first world war russian soldiers at the front did not have the obligation to go to confession, because until that time everyone had to go to confession and from father to receive a certificate of benevolence, ugh, and here for the first time there is no tsar and there is no longer such an obligation, it is typical then in the 17th year before easter in the russian army. only a couple of percent of the soldiers went to confession, and this caused a huge collapse of

the ability of this church to control people's subliminals, and then everything collapsed, that is, with the speed of a snowball, which simply washed away this church, then already in the bolshevik revolution, unfortunately, all those consequences ukrainians felt it to the full extent. in particular, when stalin revived the instrument of manipulation of the religious feelings of believers in the soviet union, reviving russian orthodoxy. having concluded a cooperation agreement with her. having raised it, then it became a tool not of the tsarist, but of the communist regime. we were not surprised, but i remember my childhood, i saw. orthodox fathers with communist awards, and then the bishops of the russian orthodox church received

state awards for closing churches, their own, ugh, we children of the underground persecuted church looked at it then, well indeed with horror, and when ukraine became independent, this independence began to demand certain changes. today we all remember and know the term decommunization, so it spontaneously began to happen in western ukraine, that fall of lenin happened back in the 90s, here, but unfortunately, central, eastern, southern ukraine lived according to other rhythms, and here it is , when everything neocolonial appeared. the face of the russian government and the face

of the moscow patriarchate in ukraine, then the ukrainian people demanded the decommunization of even the moscow orthodox church on the territory of ukraine. i don't want to go further into the analysis of these processes, because i can be accused of interfering with the internal orthodox, whatever. events, but these are more political events, an ordinary citizen of ukraine at a certain moment said to himself: enough is enough to fool us, and it is obvious that today the ukrainian state feels its duty, in particular in the conditions of a full-scale invasion, to take care of state security, even then , when it comes to threats to state security, which er... so, they come out of the womb adherents of the moscow orthodox church in ukraine,

so i think we should all be honest, honest before our own conscience, before the lord god and before the ukrainian people. if we really seek god and want to live a spiritual life, then this will be the road to liberation, to freedom, even to... decommunization of the church, even to those new demands that today's ukrainian believers make of their spiritual leaders, i can say that not only about believers of orthodox churches, but also about believers of our church, protestants and other churches, that is, we want to be a free people, and its church as an environment of liberation. here must fulfill its mission in new historical circumstances,

you know, i remember such two moments that i witnessed, 90 there, in my opinion, it was the first year or something, somewhere the very beginning of independence, alexy came to the second in my opinion , but then he was the head of the russian church, and he was on the black volga, and people were shouting out the moscow priest, that’s one thing, by the way, from the fire extinguishers of the period of independence, there was masolo kravchuk, that was one thing, because... i went then , for example, to all these rallies before the verkhovna rada all right, but there was a moscow priest, and he was riding such a black volga, and people were chasing him in the center of kyiv, and they couldn't escape, there was such a blacksmith there. yes, these cars, and they are you, that is, people drove the moscow opup, it was the beginning of the 90s, and then i remember 2000, god knows what year, when yanukovych was the president, when kirill arrived, he was there, and this is such a golden huge procession in the center of kyiv, specifically the moscow priest, during this time the moscow church managed to plant and impose itself so much that from the time when its

chased, they then turned into a church, which went from volodymyrivska hill, there in front of kiri. and all this, and no one could do anything, they seemed to reign here, but you see, now we are reaching the time when they are actually ending their history in ukraine, the most important thing here is that i would like your advice, i understand that this may not be your flock now, perhaps it will be your flock, for people who do not understand much, perhaps in politics, in state security, in danger from this church, well, i say it is ukrainian, well we don't know there with moscow, they are not with moscow, but how to briefly and simply explain to people why you... you don't need the moscow word, you see, i think that our citizens of ukraine should feel responsible for their church, and for what you hear, probably also, and why you believe, if

you feel responsible for your church. then that church will be able to change. i can proudly say about the active laymen of the ukrainian greek catholic church. and we are happy that we, as a church, are changing, we are growing. we are looking for new ways, new forms of how to be church, how to serve god and people in the latest circumstances. we are happy. having wise, active, conscious, responsible marians in our church, on whom you can rely, and today the ukrainian greek catholic church is not some cold hierarchical structure, it is a living network community, which today covers

many with that network of presence. countries of the world, we would very much like to share our experience of church life, even with our orthodox brothers. do not be afraid, do not be afraid, to be active, your fathers are not may be your slave owners, do not be slavish to spiritual officials, be able to be open. free, only then you will be able to change the church, children, which you consider yourself to be. i think that lay people, ordinary orthodox believers, can be a catalyst for change in some churches today. unfortunately, it so happened that russia tried

to crush the post-soviet ones. with the help of corruption, the same was the case in ukraine, they believed that political corruption, financing of various kinds of pro-russian political organizations and movements that were engaged in restoration of various historical so -called events, it was soft power, such a soft power with which they wanted to colonize anew, including ukraine. and here we saw that, therefore, the moscow patriarchate very actively began to feel itself a component of this entire corrupt system. we see that in russia there has been a merger of corrupt secular power and church power, this symphony, it has acquired

such, well finally, i would say. such forms of fusion of the throne and the throne, it led to the final loss of the moral authority of that of the church itself, even in russian society, and it was projected as a model of state-church relations for ukraine, it was about moscow orthodoxy as the state church, and we saw how moscow politicians behaved. and behave today in relation to this type of church existence, in particular also in ukraine, and here all those. triumphant bosses, you know, the ones you mention, and it has already begun to fill everyone's mind, uh, i would like us to remember

one such delicate reality today, today a huge number of faithful of the moscow patriarchate feel betrayed by their church. i talk to many of them, they feel that the one who was supposed to be their father has become their... enemy, the one who was supposed to take care of them, has finally betrayed them. this does not mean that those betrayed, wounded people will immediately look for another denomination, go to one or another church. i have a feeling now that many of those wounded, sick hearts, they will leave the church altogether. and ukraine may face a very powerful wave of secularization, that is, a new kind of godlessness and atheism,

exactly as it happened in tsarist russia after, after, that is, the overthrow of the tsarist throne, and with it the power or power over people, of the russian orthodox church. i would like you to clarify. for our viewers, it is a question of behavior, well, to a lesser extent, the behavior of statements, actions of the head of the vatican, the head of the roman catholic church, and the person who sits on the holy throne, because not all people understand why it seems like peace, here is somehow not such an unequivocal statement regarding the condemnation of the action. russia or again the same one of the moscow church, there is some kind of attempt to unite a ukrainian and a russian woman or something like that, to make a flash mob that

seemed to give some idea of ​​reconciliation, and people think that he is for us or for someone, or how to explain it, well, yes , as they say, just to explain why, what is the difficulty today, perhaps the role played by the pope. the roman francis, and maybe those things that we do not see, but he also does, and they are very important in the humanitarian sphere and are important. well, all the complexity, perhaps, today of the role and mission of the most holy father of the pope of rome, as a universal bishop, it's like being a preacher of peace at a time when the third world war is starting in... particles, these are his words, that is, like today, er, let's say, be the one who should serve reconciliation between nations , when peoples

start fighting among themselves, this is the complexity, perhaps a certain tension between the local and the universal, it is obvious that we feel that uh, here in ukraine there are many... problems of the whole world look different, we today we understand that er reconciliation between er aggressor and victim is possible only when that aggressor will stop when the world community condemns him, when that aggressor is forced to redress... the wrong done, only then can there be a dialogue, a dialogue that, let's say, yes, someday, i hope, it

will culminate in what we call healing of wounds , and from reconciliation, that's why these are all such difficult questions, but let's leave the pope to be the pope, and we ukrainians will be ukrainians, i think that everyone will understand everything , including us, when we really win in that battle, which one we lead, because maybe this is our so-so mission, to unmask that devil who attacks us today, to unmask that moscow, which today is no longer the bearer of high culture, but the bearer of the latest genocidal ideology. because, unfortunately, today the world is in the same danger that it was in, let's say

, before. at the beginning of the second world war, let's remember that time in europe, everyone wanted to prevent the escalation of the world conflict, do you remember chamberlain, who was so happy with that piece of paper, they said, they satisfied the aggressor, gave him a part of some country there, and now he has his own satisfied the appetites of the average european... the word germany was associated with high culture, philosophy, music, and the nazis were in power, and then at the end of the second world war, everyone asked themselves with horror how this became possible, that such a civilized, cultured people committed and committed the crimes of auschwitz. genocide

against an entire people, which today we call the holocaust, is what is being done against russia today, russia, in particular after the collapse of the soviet union, invested huge amounts of money in order to to spread the illusion of their high culture. today, when someone is looking for an expert on russia, they always come across it. to an adept who was brought up on the illusion of the greatness of russian culture, and therefore always, when they hear about russia today, they will, first of all, turn to the categories of their own illusory thinking, without asking themselves what is really happening in russia, what is really happening in russia today , i would say, this is not...

a genocidal regime that has nothing to do with examples of high russian culture, from dostoevsky or others the so-called classics of russian culture, because this culture no longer exists right now, and this is a certain shock that the west may be experiencing today, all those who consider themselves experts, and this is our perhaps historical role, it is to expose everything, to warn. the world, to close it in front of this huge ee danger, so i hope we will fulfill our role, ee, we will win, and then everyone will understand us, i am convinced that the lord god today is always on the side of the one who is a victim of unjust aggression that the lord god is

near. next to us, you said that god is with us, but i would like to finish with this question, because many people ask today, where is god and why is he with us, just as jesus was asked if his parents had sinned , or him, why is he blind, and so people will ask who sinned, articles are written, intelligent people write, explain why we deserved this war in quotation marks, and say, so what, who, who sinned, so i would like you to say: your word, here it is important for people to understand where god is, if i don't see him, i don't feel him, that's all is happening, and why is it to us, well , we will answer this question until the end, maybe at the end of the story, when the whole process will take place, then we will see everything in its entirety, but now it is christians who have the key to interpret this reality, why? because we believe... in

a suffering god, not the god who is somewhere far away, somewhere in the heavens, in his kingdom, no, but the god who became a man. we believe in the son of god, who entered human history, took on a human body and voluntarily went to the cross. that is, today we, christians, see suffering. christ in every person's suffering, i want to share my kind of, maybe my own spiritual experience, you know, when i visit our wounded boys, or even civilians who have been injured by bombings, you know, well, it's just a kind of really reverent awe in front of the guards...