the ukrainian parliament, which was elected in 2019, there will be many topics for conversation, in fact, before starting our big conversation today, i suggest watching a video of the consequences of another missile terrorist attack by the russian federation in kharkiv, unfortunately, at least six people died as a result of an attack on a residential high-rise building in kharkiv, among them one child was on the playground, 47 people were injured, the russians used a guided aerial bomb to attack civilians, let's see.

eternal memory to those who lost their lives russian occupiers, and death to the russian occupiers. friends, in addition to the tv broadcast , we also work on our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who are currently watching us there live, please subscribe to our pages, take part in our survey, today we ask you about this, whether you are satisfied you communication about...

the president with society, the president of ukraine, is meant, if you watch us on youtube, put yes, no, vote, or leave your comment under this video, if you watch us on tv, take to hold a smartphone and a phone or a phone and vote on the numbers 0800 211 381, if you are satisfied with the president's communication with you, with society, and not 0800 211 382. i want to introduce myself. our first guest today is valery chaly, diplomat, politician, ambassador, extraordinary plenipotentiary ambassador of ukraine to the united states of america in 2015-19, chairman of the board of the ukrainian crisis media center, mr. valery, thank you for coming to our studio, congratulations, i congratulate you, glory to ukraine, glory to the heroes, well, first of all, let's go let's talk about the victory plan, because this victory plan is already in the announcement of president zelensky, he said that in september he will be in

the united states of america at the un general assembly and will meet with the president of the united states of america joseph biden, and this victory plan will also be presented to two presidential candidates trump and haris, and so far ukrainians know what the victory plan will be, what it consists of, it is still not clear either, but judging by zelensky's rhetoric, it must still be a plan. not peace negotiations with the russian federation, a plan to force russia to make peace, you know, we actually have a peace formula from which, well , a position with which you can agree, and if you add certain accents to it, then this can be a plan for victory, in fact , but with such an ambitious statement, announcement, of course... if

it is really about the general, obviously the general, not about any details, the general approach is political, then first it would be necessary to talk about it in ukraine, it would not be out of place for the president to come out, maybe to the parliament, with a message, by the way, could be released, it would be appropriate for the people, well, in the parliament , the president's message is announced, it can be serious as part of the preparations. and that position doesn't go away in wartime, it's just that it's been ignored sometimes and not in wartime, so, well, say, not in a full-scale invasion, but it would be appropriate and you could talk about it first, because in fact, the victory plan, if we say, yes, then without the people, without the parliament,

without a wide circle, without the military, what is it plan, it will be strange if we hear it somewhere from washington, that is, it will be very strange, and more will be worse. here's what they're saying right now, to me, how can i tell you, well, if it's true that they're going to give this plan separately to joseph biden, to the current president, to kamela harris, as the vice-presidential candidate, to donald trump, well, that means, you know, no a plan, and this is just a general document, some theses, well, like a peace formula, yes, 10 positions, well, in principle, in principle, to convey all this. it is called a nonpaper, it is passed as your political one position, and someone says, but how come, all three will have one and the same thing, but the same thing should be, because they have already started saying, let's pass different things to them, trump has something for him, kamalno kharis for her, and

something else to joseph biden. in fact, i think that 's why this story is coming up now, we all understand that somewhere there was an understanding and... the mood was that something was going to happen in the fall, well, the election in the united states, november 5, putin is waiting for these elections, which in principle are partially true, some kind of sacred the date was set on november 5, although it is not, because the election is on the fifth, and only the inauguration is on january 20, and moreover, you and i talked here that not only the name of the president is important, but also the configuration that will be in power in the usa, and in general, how calmly they will pass the election period, well, that is another matter. topic, so i think that this is all a continuation of the same story, this is exactly a diplomatic story, it is not a history of war, as if at the front, it is not a history of foreign policy and the establishment of peace or victory, this is diplomacy

that deals with it, in the process of some positions on to strengthen the negotiations, to create a platform somewhere, but this does not replace any peace summits, they do not replace... these letters i will pass on do not replace anything, absolutely, but you can send dozens of letters if you are confident in your position, that's one story, if not , then no, so it can and will be a visit of the president to new york for the un general assembly, as a rule, it is used for bilateral meetings, there can be a parallel visit to washington, if all this is prepared, i think it is normal, but. .. there is only one reason why you and i are not discussed before, yes, because everyone focused on the fall, as some such moment is a turning point, and we see after kursk, that after the russian movements further in the donetsk region, everything is simply postponed,

diplomacy now, i will tell you honestly, it does not work much , this is a weapon that works now, and all this diplomacy is postponed for later, the best diplomat now is the armed forces. well, of course, well, you can say that, and here i would, you know, these stamps, i would not put them, here it is not in the sense that the best diplomat of the armed forces, the fact is that diplomacy appears when the weapon is already he is silent, and why, here it is important, it is important that people understand and do not bet what he says, what is called a horse from behind, in front of a cart, behind, behind, that... initially there were many efforts in bilateral relations between ukraine and russia to avoid war, primarily ukraine did it. compromises, starting with the base on the territory of ukraine of the black sea fleet, although it was difficult to decide immediately, but

it was possible in the 10th year to put it more firmly there, if yanukovych was not the prime minister, the president already then, it is not a fact that this is history no... because president yushchenko put the question of the withdrawal of the fleet is already, well, at least start the process, yes, then volodymyr ariska went to moscow and spoke in ukrainian there that it was necessary to withdraw, that is, we made such compromises, and we have already reached a point where we are not, again after all, russia started a war against ukraine in the 14th year and then in the 22nd a large-scale war, this is already as a result that... all our diplomatic efforts did not lead to a solution, people for some reason expect that the war will be stopped by diplomatic efforts, that's all on the contrary, diplomatic efforts have not ended, well, then peace continued and war followed, that

's why it's logic, i meet a lot of people who don't understand this, they think it's because, well, we have to sit down peacefully, a lot of people. i just drove a lot closer to the border there, the same conversations, but after such bums that you showed the cable, of course people will say, well, it must be stopped, people are dying. everything seems to be so clear, but the problem is that russia, she, she did not listen to us before, and she will kill until the moment of surrender, therefore, in conclusion, i will say that the peace summit, the one that the second one, if frankly, could have been successful, well, with the completion of the results, like the summit of the soft capitulation of ukraine, well, soft, it is meant, that is where all the international partners will sit down, we will tell you so... he will say over his shoulder, we will still help you, maybe a year there and still give money, but this is your capitulation, this is

definitely a peace summit, in terms of how he was preparing now and what events are happening at the front, this is the summit of soft surrender, now the formula or whatever the plan of victory sounds like, you see a change of position, well , let's see, because we understand what the victory plan is, i say that it is the same de... occupation of territories as a formula for peace, the same exchange for all our prisoners, responsibility invaders, occupiers, all the same positions, plus victory, and if victory means no war of attrition, because a war of attrition cannot be victorious if it is waged only on your territory, if it is waged in kharkiv, sumy, kyiv, then it is not a victory if there will be moscow, st. petersburg, moscow, so be it then there will be talk of victory. we do, but

our partners do not see it that way. by the way, why don't they ask the question now, our delegation there, you talk about a war of attrition, sorry, and at the same time you say that it cannot be on the territory of russia. so what are you talking about? this is logic, just logic, what is your definition, well, people, ukrainians understand why on our territory? yes, now we have gone beyond this frame and started again for everyone. there are some chronic irritations, because escalation, escalation again, well, well, then you don't say that this is a war of attrition, so there can be a plan for victory, only it can be, all the supply of weapons must be concentrated, now, it must be, everything that is planned, relatively speaking, there for 3-4 years, must be in six months, then it the victory plan, yes, and it is quite clear that our western...partners are now acting not even as a guarantor of ukraine's security, but as a guarantor

of putin's security, because if they do not allow strikes on the territory of the russian federation, then they , they have it for safekeeping, well, it is necessary to tell them about it directly, they are now guaranteeing russia's security, they are now guaranteeing security, well, not putin's security, after all, you can't say that, because it's putin's regime, well, they're preserving in this way... putin's regime, because they don't give well, they don’t give enough opportunities or support, they give support, we have to thank them so that it is clear that ukraine exists, but in their understanding ukraine exists, in what borders, with what internal mood, they don’t care, ukraine exists, and this in fact, they do not say that it is necessary to thank and to bow, sorry, it is their national interest when they have a barrier between'. that is , the barrier that we act as, we guarantee, ukraine now guarantees the security of poland,

slovakia, the baltic countries, hungary, romania, at least, i am not talking about germany, france, for obvious reasons, yes, they have additional levers, but of these countries that are on the border, ukraine now guarantees security, by the way, they honestly, especially in the baltic countries, say this, and thank you, because it is clear that ukraine is more... more, they could already be just walk through georgia, how tanks entered tbilisi and no one in the world knew what to do with it, so i think that diplomacy should be conducted, but we have such a problem, at first we have such loud statements, you and i will be a couple months to discuss it, it is not known what, something is being conveyed there, and i would not like the ukrainians to be faced with the fact that the victory plan... it turns out, well, i don’t want to continue the nuances there, yes, i think, according to the mood

of president zelensky, no, i do not think that there will be anything like that, well, relatively speaking, we will be merged there, no, this will not happen, on the contrary, i i think that he will write exactly these positions there, increasing sanctions, increasing the provision of weapons, but as a result, it will be, well, unfortunately, the same reaction as it is now, almost as if to a formula. one more moment, it’s not important now, let’s take the usa, you can prepare in different ways, yes, a plan for victory, you can, of course , talk about weapons there, that’s all and say: to candidate trump there, what to play along with him, that he is a great leader , if, if he becomes the president, he decides everything, and you can ask the partners now, but if you are the president, she or he, you are coming, and what kind of tools do you have even to resolve issues in the war with

ukraine, there is only a toolkit to put pressure on ukraine, half of the finances, remember, from the package were not provided in... conditionally provided only until january 20 and will decide, as i understand it, the new president, joseph biden, the current president, cannot use these funds, then not the entire package will be processed by weapons production, and most importantly, no one, for some reason , everyone has stopped talking about it, i have the impression that it is not just impression, i know it in in the ministry of legal affairs, in the president's office, in general, for... now they are not pushing our partners in america to the toolkit for next year, there are no landless, the law has expired, we tried there, at first we agreed, we don't need landless, we don't need it, why not it is needed, moreover, the nsdc apparatus presented a whole explanation why we don't need it, moreover, the one who

spoke about lendlis was said by russian agents, i listened to it all, well, remember that too. it must be, there must be an intergovernmental agreement, it must be prepared, that's all it has to be done, then we are already in a few months, yes, before that it is already before the adoption, our ambassador, ms. markarova, says, now we will punch the landless, hooray, let’s punch, that’s all, and then the democrats took it, took it right into the procession, i i know it was openly filmed by the democrats, they could have filmed it without joseph biden, they couldn't. now we don't have tools, direct funding? where? do you have expectations that it will go better than last year, that when the elections are held , the voting in the parliament will go better, remember, they did not give our votes, and we moved on to the package, although no packages are needed, you could

not accept them, you just had to give money in the budget, that’s all, they didn’t do it, now there... everything will be so turbulent that you should even forget about it, but where is the package, who said a word package, lendlis, everyone is silent, a plan for victory, what a plan for victory, if in america you don’t have the tools, money and concrete actions, you can, of course , talk better in closed mode about the plan that this money would be given, there the current administration would have to report on the plan trans. yes, by the way, yes, from the point of view of the usa, yes, well, this is closed information, although this kind of information, as a rule, is somewhere at least at some level, the congress works differently from the ukrainian parliament, the congress influences foreign policy, yes but it didn't slip anywhere, and we need to talk about it, we need to talk about all the things, and if it ends only with beautiful slogans,

then this is not the style we need now, by the way, information has appeared about what. .. president zelensky fired mykola lyschuk from positions of the commander of the air force of the armed forces of ukraine. yesterday there was information that during the russian attack on august 26 , an f-16 plane crashed with our pilot and oleksiy mesim on board. and today, yesterday , the topic of possible friendly fire on the f-16, which apparently became the cause of this plane crash, was discussed. although there are no official confirmations of the investigation yet, the investigation will be conducted, including with representatives of the united states of america, and olyschuk today responded to maryana bezuglii, because she posted on the facebook page to his accusation against the command of the air forces of ukraine, well, we have the resignation

of olyschuk, obviously, i understand that the version published by mariana bezugla, probably... it has its place, well, at least we will wait for the official conclusions, but the resignation of the commander of the air forces forces already happened, here is this episode with the f16 plane, which entered the territory of ukraine there at the beginning of august, and something happened, we cannot say for sure with it now, there is no conclusion of the commission yet, whether it can somehow affect attitude of our partners towards ukraine, they don't even know that we gave them a plane. what to do with them, whether there is a war, i would like to clarify, you say i came, that is, those who put, well, sell, let's not talk, so i don't want to at all. to comment on this side is purely military, it is a war, and there, even during a war, there must be a debriefing, of course, so that there are no mistakes, but, as it is discussed,

the war, there is an airplane, that is, what is the use there in the performance of the task, it's a pity, it's a pity that the pilot died, that's the worst. yes, listen, what's the difference, a piece of iron, what could, what war, it's a consumable, what could , what su, what f, wants the 35th, wants the 16th, pilot, here's a pilot who passed, a famous pilot, experienced, and who passed the training, which actually, this is the biggest loss, he needs such a pilot to be in line, here in the world they were standing and offering, take one more plane, one more, but... but the pilot will not be returned , and with regard to the plane, well, anything could have happened, that is, i remember the wars that were fought, and the information that is already open is, well, they were fought there

in afghanistan, somewhere there was an operation in iraq, then there were friendly firemen, whatever, one, well, this obviously happens, all the more so once again, in war, all this happens, the only question, of course, is how can i not specialist. i just have such a general question, well, again , it may be, honestly, it may be somewhat frivolous, in today’s terms, who knows the situation, for what these or other means are used, but i think that if we keep f-16 aircraft somewhere in western ukraine, and not be used to launch missiles that can only be hung on these planes and on the territory. by the way, the netherlands stated that it is possible to do this, and if the netherlands stated, then they have already spoken with the americans, that is, they should be used as much as possible where

the return from them is maximum, relatively speaking, yes, they are also effective on missiles they work, i understand, but for cruise missiles, but for cruise missiles, in principle, we can work with other means, except for aviation, i... understand that not everything is enough, but if we lose planes in the process, in such a process , yes, that is, not anymore there will be a difference, why, what are the reasons, whether there is friendly fire, or there are technical reasons, or it could also be that the training of the pilot is not enough, but we then, one and the same plane, everyone, well, they will talk about something, and if it is already two , well, as you know, they say, one is a coincidence, two - i already remember three. already the system, if there are three jet-16s there, then no one will raise questions about it, so there is no need to supply it to ukraine, let's still

finish this deal there or a deal according to the polish migs, well, in exchange for -35, by the way, on last week, after the statements of many poles that we will be able to give migs to the ukrainians only if the f-35s arrive, there was already a presentation of the first f-35 aircraft at the factory, which is a good sign. well, they must be used for their intended purpose, even, even if they are lost, god forbid without the death of our soldiers, then they will be shot back where they are needed, the required number of times, that is, my position is not such an expert, it is simply a civil one, that one should not be afraid to take bold steps in war, and if bold steps... we order that is called, then such a command will never set an example for the lower ones, everyone will try to avoid it, by the way, in the american system, i

know it more deeply, among westerners, a report is written, even if a person has made, well, even such a mistake, which borders on a crime, of course , when people die, yes, that is, he still writes a report, honestly, if it’s all honest, there are... there are disciplinary proceedings, of course, but no criminal ones are opened against him, because, well, listen, that’s , if there is no motive, motivation to do it specifically, then you can’t be punished for that, but i have a simple question, if the same commander alyashchuk, if it is for this, yes, what about some situation, they lost an f16 plane, this is resonating now for the world and affects our situation there, then why are they not punished for the same? the mistakes of politicians, how many have messed up in key political positions, well, it's just a disaster, so why aren't they removed, but

if that's the logic, it's kind of strange in our country. strange logic, so it seems to me that we need to be more careful with the armed forces, because you will kill any desire for commanders to take risks in general, to take responsibility, and to put some people there with russian passports, a wife, a daughter in the csk club, and he, without any understanding of the uav , goes and leads the newly created, well, direction, well, that’s in general, well, here are two events, and that’s why... i don’t ho, i don't know, you understand, you and i don't know this, if you want to explain your actions to the people, then let's honestly speak more openly, but is it possible to speak so openly in war, it will fall on the enemy, so is it possible to change commanders there, must, even must, even from time to time war, it can be seen quickly that you can, it even happens that way, a person is good, well, he just does not respond in these conditions, and he may

not respond in others, this is... just a task, but not because of the fact that he is lost f-16 is there a leopard, no, and in general, i don’t see any difference when the weapon already gets into the armed forces, whether it is american, british, polish, whatever, it becomes ukrainian immediately, it becomes ukrainian, so, well, that's what i said, but of course this discussion will start on the pages of newspapers, ukrainians are not ready f16 to use. of course there will be consequences, they must be minimized, but i say that our task is to win, and all these things, these consequences, are the work of diplomacy, to write an article, there will be talks somewhere, to bring down this heat, this is the work of diplomacy, it is not the work of the higher up there of the country's leadership, well, there should not be consideration of the issue of 1f-16, which under some conditions, you just have to thank

the pilot. provide everything that the state owes and thank the family. let's get back to the peace plans, because this week the national security advisor to the president of the united states of america during the meeting, jake selivan and chinese leader xijin pin discussed a number of topics that are also related to the full-scale war of the russian federation against ukraine. jake sullivan stated that the united states of america and china. could not agree on a specific plan for negotiations on ending the war in ukraine. let's hear what sullivan said. we had the opportunity to exchange views on the war in ukraine during the last three days. we have not arrived at any concrete plan for diplomacy, in large part because the united the states adheres very strictly to a simple principle: nothing about ukraine without ukraine.

so, in the end... it is up to ukraine to decide how it wants to continue the diplomatic and negotiation processes. but in parallel with what sullivan said, china said that we generally have a chinese-brazilian peace plan, and this is already our initiative, and we are presenting it, while the ambassador of ukraine to brazil, in an interview with ukrainian pravda, andrii melnyk stated that the brazilian authorities did not warn ukraine that they were going... together with china, this peaceful plan, let's listen to mr. melnyk, we saw this initiative, this new chinese-brazilian peace plan, i predicted it, although the brazilians, by the way, did not share it with us, it is also such a challenge for us, the lack of it so far, even of elementary trust, at the level of those who really

make decisions there, that is, you go... to the diplomatic adviser there, you communicate perfectly there, you ask, like, well, what are the plans, like, what will be the position, or, well, eh, and then you only guess that they are really preparing an alternative approach. are needed these are all the initiatives and the weight of these initiatives, mr. valery, here is the chinese one, the chinese peace was there, it was there from february 24, 23rd year... they had a vision about what was happening in ukraine, then brazil joined some plan there , when one of the parties waging an aggressive war against ukraine, the main one, russia, their peace plan for ukraine is a capitulation plan, putin directly said that he...