and at this very time, at this very time, well , kurshchyna can wait, he announced a counterterrorist operation there, he rebuked those who did not dare to protect the border with dignity. and all this , by the way, is not bad, because you and i are talking about additional troops, but these additional troops are needed not only to liberate the territory of the kurt region, which is currently under the control of the ukrainian military, but their you also need to have it to protect the entire perimeter of the border of the belgorod, kursk, and bryansk regions of the russian federation. ukraine, there were no significant troops there until now, right? there were already troops there, which were even equipped with visors, which in principle should not serve in the combat zone. so, now it is necessary to approach this situation in a completely different way. another act of russian terror against our country took place this week, namely, on august 26, the russians actually attacked. or not the most massive strike,

in particular, with various types of various types of missile weapons, unmanned aerial vehicles of the shahed type on the territory of ukraine, this is indeed one of the biggest strikes, hundreds, literally, hundreds of rockets, hundreds of shahed barrage munitions were used, and that's all, supposedly, if we're talking about russian ones. the informational context was used for the so-called act of retaliation for the kursk region, yes, and in particular in the same context we can also say that in fact the last three weeks there, at least, and even four weeks, de facto russians spend constant daily terror, in particular the capital of ukraine, kyiv, as well as the neighboring ones. oblasts by shaheds, well, in particular

the current night was not an exception, mr. vitaly, in this context, this is a pre-planned energy terror, is this really such a response and an attempt to divert the attention of russian society from the failure of the kurshchyna, in your opinion, should we expect a continuation and ... such terror over the next few months, at least heightened terror for some political stabilization of putin's ratings? well , you know, i don't think at all that this is designed for russian society, and that russian society somehow strongly concerned about this kurdish region that we need to seriously rebuild something. secondly, i believe that all these conversations about revenge do not take place in the russian context, maybe there are some telegram channels or some propagandists talking about it, in ukrainian. this is from some ukrainians, i hear

that this is revenge for kurshchyna, and i believe that this is an absolutely planned logical policy that has been going on for a long time, i would say from the moment when putin was convinced that he would not be able to occupy the entire territory of ukraine . we are it seems to me that yesterday or the day before yesterday they spoke with the famous tv presenter yevhen kiselyova, he even told me the date, which in his opinion was the beginning of such terror, it seems to be november. in 22, do you remember there was such a mass attack on kryvyi, well , it was november 6 or some other date, if i am not mistaken, it was october 10, 22, because by this time putin had such an idea of ​​a blitzkrieg that he would capture the whole this territory, and then the question arose, why destroy all the infrastructure that will be needed, and approximately in in october, he realized that... this territory

really cannot be captured, that the russian army does not have such forces, and therefore a decision was made then, which is being implemented, that it is necessary to turn ukraine into an energy desert. this idea, it is absolutely correct, if you look at the logic of the aggressor, because it pursues several goals. the first goal is to induce ukraine to capitulate, that is, ukrainians must understand that they cannot survive in a war with the russian federation, if they just want to survive, it is not about victory, but about... defeat, about the normal survival of ordinary people, it is necessary to surrender to the metropolis, otherwise it will destroy everything here, and in ten years it will not be restored, simple logic: first, second, if it is not even possible to force ukraine to surrender, its punishment should be exemplary for all other former soviet republics that there is no need to contact russia, here ukraine tried. to resist russia, russia did not

succeed in conquering it, but it simply destroyed it, the method of many empires, so to speak, is absolutely known, not even in sorodnevich, i would say, in antiquity everything is like that. carthage must be destroyed, that's how putin feels about ukraine, it just has to be destroyed sooner or later, and there is no price he would not pay for this final destruction. therefore, this attack, it absolutely fits into this logic. this second point is very important. because in this case all the other territories he claims will then be much more willing to make concessions when russia offers. to them these or other integration proposals, this is the second such moment, the third moment, also very important, this is, as you understand, a demographic moment. russia, in principle, even if it fails to capture ukraine, wanted to radically reduce

the population here, because ukraine was, relatively speaking, the only geopolitic during the entire existence of the russian empire and the soviet union. a competitor of the russian people, the number of ukrainians was always a large number, it was a large nation that could be reckoned with and had to be reckoned with, the other peoples of the empire did not have to be reckoned with in particular, and the second such a large number of people did not exist either in the russian empire or in the soviet union, we talk a lot about the resistance of the baltic peoples, about the georgian resistance, about the chechen resistance, but these are small nations. a couple of million to a million population, estonians are a people who do not have a million, so it was a struggle, but this struggle was always in the conditions when the empire was weakening, because otherwise the estonians could count on the fact that they would simply be all kicked out of estonia, as it

was after the war with the crimean tatars, with chechens, with the ingush, as it was during the war with the germans of the voluga region, as it was with the kalmyks. small nations cannot do anything against a large empire, no resistance helps, they can simply load the entire people into wagons and take them somewhere else, and this has happened many times in the history of the russian empire, population replacement, you can’t do it that easily with ukrainians, 40 you can't take millions and not drive them out, so you can't take them out and destroy them in one fell swoop, you understand, here we are... talking about the famine and the final the solution of the jewish question before the second world war and during the second world war, but there are numbers there, relatively speaking, in the millions of people, not tens of millions, even technologically, i apologize for the cynicism, it is very difficult to destroy 40 million people at once, as

let's say the nazis did what they did to the jews, so that kind of people must be reduced, you and i already understand that ukraine, which was a country there before the war in the 1940s with a population of 35-40 million, now probably has a population of 28-30 million lives on the territory of ukraine, if you correctly conduct this the story with the energy collapse, a large number of people will be forced to leave, and you were talking about kyiv, and if you mention yesterday's barbaric bombing of kharkiv, this is the same story, that is, the population must relocate, it was threatened. to move from the east and south to the center to the west, and from the center and west to the borders of ukraine, and if even the russian army does not manage to establish full control over this territory, then at the end of the war, if there will be, relatively speaking, not 40

million people, and 15, the country that was demographically the size of germany, will turn from a country the size of slovakia demographically. this will be a great victory for the putinites, they want this, and that is why a long war is beneficial to them, because this long war objectively reduces the number of the ukrainian population, even if you imagine that you will not kill everyone, a large number of the population will be displaced for the borders of ukraine, many will not return, after the end of the war, many will, of course, go to their families, this is a demographic war, we should never forget that, and a plus, sir vitaliy, the creation of... this ephemeral buffer zone that putin dreams of, and they are trying to create it in the north of our country, you mentioned kharkiv, absolutely right, the same can be said about sumyshchyna, which just every day, i do not believe at all , i believe that

if they seize something there in kharkiv region , they will be able to pay off somewhere in sumy region, hoping that they will not succeed, they will hold a referendum there in three months. announces the accession of the independent state of the kharkiv region to the russian federation , they will demand that the ukrainian troops withdrew from the entire territory of the kharkiv region, as they now demand that the ukrainian troops withdraw from the entire territory. or zaporizhzhia region and will already create a buffer zone for these regions in other regions of ukraine. this is the politics of salami. we can talk about the buffer zone in the kurdish region because, unlike russia, we respect international law. and we are not going to add anything that is not someone else's. and in russia , the issue of international law, as you understand, is very conditional, it destroyed it a long time ago, and that is why all this talk about the buverna zone is just preparation for a new annexation. that's just how it's justified. of what we are creating a buffer zone there, and what, do you remember that they in donbas generally said that they

are not there, and by the way, many people agreed with this, both in the west and in ukraine, for reasons that i do not understand they called these figures of the dpr, lpr, so-called separatists, although it was the sacheny occupation, so all these are different receptions of the gabis, there is a people's republic, here is a buffer zone, then we wake up one fine day, in the kharkiv region referendum, why are they trying so hard... to climb into vovchansk or storm kupiang, so that they have some center where they are from, in which they can hold a referendum and claim kharkiv, because they hope that if they can annex at least part of the kharkiv region, they will later force ukraine to withdraw from all those regions they annexed, this is their calculation. regarding the international context of our policy and support for ukraine, here... i would like to mention that our country asks individual

states, including nato countries, to provide the possibility of using their weapons, at least pointwise on the territory of russia, in the depth of the territory of russia, in particular, this also applies to the offensive in the kursk region of russia, so in particular the high representative of the european union for foreign policy, borel, he stated that ukraine should receive each country's permission to use such weapons. we see that some countries are ready to grant such permission, some, unfortunately, like italy, are not ready. we see the statements, including the president of the czech republic, who says that ukraine it is necessary to grant permission, in fact, to hit targets with such weapons on the sovereign territory of russia. yes, and in this context, even after ukraine demonstrated

success in the kursk region, even after russia continues its daily terror, we see that some states still doubt whether to give ukraine such an opportunity, and we we see that even our main ally in the united states of america still has such doubts, it would seem... as if all the red lines have already been crossed, and it would be worthwhile to help ukraine in this questions, but there is still no unanimity, whether there will be, mr. vitaly, and that even now, even today, on the last day of the summer of 2024, prevents our key allies from making such a fateful decision for our armed forces. well, it is clear that the fear of me... but it seems to me that it will be

overcome little by little, because what was the concept, we also talked about it many times, what was the concept of the russians and the west in the first period of this war. the russians demonstrated that they are ready to take any desperate steps. they were frightening from the first day of this great war the west with nuclear terror, and the west has always believed that if he helps ukraine, so to speak, to stop putin, sooner or later putin will realize that he has no way to take over all of ukraine, that his entire history has collapsed, and he is so will be forced to leave. some negotiations, if not about the end, then the suspension of this terrible

war, but, as i said, 2.5 years have already passed, there are no intentions on the part of putin that he has understood something, instead, putin himself is constantly moving the red lines, i would say that precisely the offensive of ukrainian troops in the kurdish region of the russian federation, this is one of the first examples when we moved the red lines, not ... putin, and that is why it shocked the russian kermanych so much, because he is used to him moving the red lines himself, all others only react to it. so here is the event. just has to now also move red lines for the simple reason that he needs putin to stop, and they may think that if they, say, give permission to ukraine to use western weapons, i i think that such politicians as jose borel would not have talked about it just like that, if they did not realize that there are serious discussions about it at a high level in the west,

of course, in such a situation, this must also be understood. one way or another, the west would not simply announce such discussions. so, there are discussions. perhaps some western countries will begin to allow ukraine to use their long-range weapons, perhaps with the exception of, say, the united states. maybe, with the exception of nuclear states, some form will be found. it's all possible. be maybe f-16 aircraft, which will be supplied by non -americans, will be allowed to enter the airspace of the russian federation at a long distance, all this can happen over time, again, it must be understood that all this will happen over time, this is only the first years of the war , the first, it can happen in the fourth,

fifth, sixth year, it is in our interests for it to happen sooner. because the sooner this happens, the sooner the prospect will arise that in the coming years the parties will come closer to the need for at least a truce, at least a humanitarian truce, at least such arrangements that will allow us to save part of the energy. yes, i do not see such agreements in 2024, 2025, but maybe on the 26th-27th such opportunities will arise, but for this you need to move these red lines, but the west will still ... move them so as not to give the possibility of the russian federation using tactical nuclear weapons on the territory of ukraine, because the west does not know exactly how to react in such a situation, and in order for this to happen, so to speak, systematically. russians understand what they are afraid of west? when sergey lavrov says that the americans should not think that a nuclear war

will take place exclusively in europe, that it will definitely touch... america, it means that the russians are also starting to move the red lines on their side, because earlier, when we talked about the danger of nuclear war, even war between the russian federation and the united states, it was believed that the russian federation could attack american military facilities in europe. yes, with the use of tactical nuclear weapons, maybe even with the use of strategic nuclear weapons weapons, but we are talking about american bases on the european continent. now the head of the russian foreign policy department makes it clear to the americans that strategic nuclear strikes can be directed into the heart of america, turning its cities and military facilities into incinerators. of course, these are absolutely fantastic, utopian words. but put yourself in the shoes of the president of the united states, the secretary of state of the united

states, the secretary of defense of the united states, who are forced to consider this possibility. well, then. russian blackmail one way or another works, and that means that the americans are quite careful, because they have on one side, i would say, on one side, on one side of ensuring international law, the survival of ukraine as a sovereign state, we are not even talking with you now about the restoration of territorial integrity, simply about the survival of ukraine and the ukrainian people in those territories where ukrainians originally lived, this, i would say, is even more urgent today than any other, because now... it is not about the territorial integrity of restoration, but about whether ukraine will be or not and whether ukrainians will be there, let's say, in the early 30s, at all, this is clear, so that it becomes clear what we are fighting for, not so that we enter donetsk yalta, but so that in lviv or in uzhgorod there was still a memory of ukrainians in general, this is what putin wants, completely different tasks for russia and

ukraine in this war, so on one, on one... on one side, on one side this situation of preserving ukrainian statehood, on the other hand, the possibility of a real nuclear war with russian strikes on america, and someone will say: listen, they are not crazy there to do such a thing, we, they understand that we can answer them, well we can, it will be easier for us if we answer them, if we say, not only half of new- york, but also half of moscow, what will we have from this, well, this is the question that any time... a thinking politician asks himself, the more we will remember the value of human life in the united states and in europe many times higher, than in the post-soviet space, and even for politicians, not those. only for society, but also for politicians, this is how it always was, which is why the second world war was won precisely because the value of human life in the soviet union was zero, and therefore the allies could

calmly watch as joseph stalin and his marshals, the marshals of victory, in fact the marshals of death, threw reich by the corpses of his compatriots, well, that's all, it is also necessary to understand what they come from, about an american. context, i would like to remind you that there are still elections in the united states of america and two candidates are competing there, kamala harris and donald trump. the president of ukraine, volodymyr zelenskyi, said that he would hand over the plan for the victory of ukraine to both teams of candidates, to both candidates. on the other hand, trump stated that he does not like the ukrainian offensive in... the region of russia, he says that it could lead to the third world war, well, trump is here, as they say, absolutely in his role, nothing surprising in

there are no such statements from him, but kamala harris, the current vice president of the usa, she gave the first extensive interview, and in this first extensive interview she did not mention ukraine. mr. vitaly, you and i have repeatedly for many months... talked about the fact that ukraine is not the main topic of the election campaign in the united states of america. but despite this, for example, trump mentions ukraine, well, if not at every rally, then at least much more often than the candidate from the democratic party, and very often, if we talk about these statements, he mentions them, well, in such a not too positive way connotations for us. how would you rate these, these two actions of the candidates, trump's statement that he does not like such actions of ukraine, etc

silence or silencing on the part of haris, after all, the war that is going on in ukraine, is she doing the right thing and why does trump continue to do so? well, kamela harris, like any... experienced politician works with technology, and she clearly understands what topics are important to the american audience, her main task right now is to win the election for the president of the united states, to stop donald trump, and that's not an easy task , given the way the situation in the united states has developed in general with this election campaign, and with the way president joe biden, etc. i have no doubt that when, if, kamela hadis will win the presidential election. in the united states, she will continue biden's policy. perhaps ukraine will not occupy such a place in its own political program. how ukraine occupied a place in biden's program,

because ukraine was personally important to biden. as you know, he was involved in ukraine back in the days when he was the vice president of the united states in the administration of barack obama. i'm not talking about his long career, which was connected with this, i would say, rivalry with dictatorships since the time of the yugoslav war. when senator biden was one of the advocates for american weapons to be supplied to bosnia and herzegovina, so that bosnia and herzegovina could resist belgrade, so this is part of the political, i would say, visionary for him. kamela harris has had a completely different political career, and she now focuses primarily on domestic political issues once, and then she very much needs to walk a tightrope, so to speak, showing support for israel on the one hand, and on the other hand. without scaring off those radical anti-israel democratic voters who believe israel's response to the kamas bandit raid on october 7 last year was excessive, and

that was the theme of the kamele haris interview we saw the first interview yu, such a big interview together with the vice president with the candidate for vice president, but as for donald trump, i wouldn't say that he mentions ukraine, andriy, i would say that he does. russia, for him ukraine was and is and will be, just like that, i would say, an unpleasant barrier to improving relations with russia and establishing close personal relations with putin, and by the way, just today, i think, at a rally in pennsylvania, if i'm not mistaken, i even watched it right before our broadcast, here i am, i ’ll tell you where this rally was, yes , there was another rally in pennsylvania,

and i’ll quote you... trump treated russia well, no, i didn’t treated russia well, but you know, being friends with russia is good, it is right, but conflicting with them is it's bad, here's trump's statement: being friends with russia is good, not bad, it's smart, remember that, and what prevents us from being friends with russia, ukraine, that's why trump doesn't mention ukraine. he mentions russia, people like putin, like kim jong-un, have always caused him sincere admiration, i would say the extent of their power. maybe that's what trump would dream of if he wasn't born in a democratic country, but i don't know what he dreams of, really. i'm just saying that the important thing in this case is not the plan that zelensky will propose. we already have the formula peace, we can have a plan for victory, again, we must first determine what...

victory is in the conditions in which we are now, because we have a victory to restore territorial integrity - a fact, we have a victory that cannot be surrendered some more territories, a fact, our victory is to hold on to those territories of russia that we now have under our control, a fact, we have a victory, not to freeze in winter and not lose several million more people who can leave here, a fact, many victories, let's focus on some tactical to begin with achieve strategy. whoah, whoah. mr. vitaly, a few minutes and we will return to the conversation with you. we're on a short break right now on espresso tv and will be back with our live saturday politics club. don't switch. events, events that are happening right now and affect our lives.

news, of course. the tape informs about them, but it is not enough to know what is happening, it is necessary to understand. antin borkovskii and invited experts soberly assess the events, analyze them, modeling our future. every saturday at 1:10 p.m with a repeat at 10:00 p.m. studio event with anton borkovsky at espresso. live ether, saturday politclub, we are on. hello, we have vitaly portnikov on the phone, and we continue to discuss the main events of the current week, the most important and most relevant for our country and the world. another topic, if we are talking about putin, if we are talking about such an international aspect, including the fact that putin has gathered in mongolia,

this actually... it was officially announced, the russian and mongolian mass media also announced this, well, but mongolia, she is actually a member of the international criminal, if not a member of the international criminal court, but has ratified the rome statute, and this means that de facto, if you follow international law, she should detain putin, since a warrant has been issued for him. in fact, by the same international criminal court, but putin gathered there, and we see that mongolia is allegedly not going to arrest putin, this is also stated by their officials, and here indeed putin is once again trying to create a certain international a political precedent, a precedent of violation of international law and a precedent that

putin absolutely... does not care about the same international law, about recognized conventions, about decisions of international judges, etc. mr. vitaly, here is this voyage, this action of putin, it really, in fact, leads to such thoughts, yes, that putin wants to demonstrate his badness in this way. and in fact the impotence of international law, as far as i understand, well, you know, even in the first days after the arrest warrant for vladimir putin was issued and authorized in of human rights, the russian federation of maria lviv and bilova, many said that putin was incredibly scared, that now he will be isolated, that he will not be able to go anywhere, and where he will be arrested, and where he will not be arrested.