still attractive as the world keeps getting faster and innovation continues to evolve over that time. i think for us the unique sectors we'd look at are really nongovernment agency, residential mortgage-backed securities looking at that part of the bond portfolio where you can capture some extra that yield and insurance-linked securities for certain investors look very interesting particularly because with we saw reinsurance rates rise quite a bit in 2023, and that's really probably a tailwind for investors. lauren: fast forward to december 31st, 2024, where is the s&p 500 at the end of this this year? >> yeah, right now we're thinking about 4950. lauren: all right. >> a good return. lauren: i see a gain of a. 5% with that prediction. rob hayworth, thank you very much. "the claman countdown" will be on the road next week at ces. "kudlow." muck. larry: hello, folks, i'm larry kudlow are.

president joe biden just wrapped his first campaign speech in sali forge, pennsylvania -- valley forge, pennsylvania, allegedly just like democracy. just like biden to give a january 6th speech on january 5th. how do you give a speech on democracy when you trying to keep your principal competitor off the ballot? by the way, prevent anyone in your own party from participating in the election? it's all very interesting, and our own edward lawrence live from the if white house is taxed with the dubious story of reporting on all this. 'd ward, good afternoon. [laughter] >> reporter: yeah, good afternoon. former president donald -- i should say president joe biden going very negative for the if start of 2024. now, he made this speech today all about the fight for democracy. now, the president make his most direct attacks against former president donald trump since he took office, making the entire speech about the former president. >> the choice is clear, donald trump's campaign is about him,

not america, not you. donald trump's campaign is obsessed with the past, not the future. he's willing to sacrifice our democracy, put himself in power. >> reporter: so no mention of the efforts in democratic-led states to remove the former president from ballots or charges by the biden administration's department of justice. instead, president biden focused on trying to connect president trump to the people who stormed the u.s. capitol. >> donald trump watched on tv in a private, small dining room off my oval -- off the oval is office. the entire nation watched in horror. the whole world watched in disbelief, and trump did nothing. >> reporter: so republicans say the president's so-called fight for democracy and looking back to january 6th will be the basis for president biden's re-election bid because he cannot run on his record.

>> what you said is about the primary process that while iowa goes first, new hampshire, quote, corrects it. [laughter] >> oh, my gosh. ron desantis said that was incredibly disrespectful to iowans -- >> of course he did. >> and of course we're here in iowa, i'm looking around at people's faces. anything else you'd like to say? >> look, we have done 150 plus town halls. you've got to have some fun too -- >> reporter: or reince priebus, the foreman chief of staff under president trump that a basically said president biden has been a failure across the board went you look at his policies on the economy, when you look at what's happening across the globe. president biden made this speech, again, the first of 2020, it's the first time we've seen president biden speak publicly in 2024. the president was on vacation at the end of last month, and this is the first time, again, his first political speech and his

first public appearance speaking of 2024. back to you. lauren lauren -- larry: thank you, edward lawrence. we will get to nikki haley later in the show. so, folks, quickly, let me begin at the beginning with a brief riff are. how do you give a speech on the principles of democracy when you're doing all you can to keep the primary opponent, donald trump, off the ballot as in colorado and maine and instruct the your justice department to throw him in jail for 700 years? who does biden think he's kidding? people see right through it. that ain't democracy. and nothing like this has ever happened before in american history. and as the eminent if constitutional lawyer jonathan turley put it, removing trump from ballots is unfounded and dangerous. now, as the whole world knows, drumming up some phony insurrection ballot disqualifier is the most transparent form of political interference from the biden white house. unfortunately, as mr. turley also noted, any number of

democratic office holders have been trying to adopt president biden's undemocratic tactics. it won't work. indeed, my guess is it's helping mr. trump. but joe biden won't stop with his republican opponent. he doesn't want any competition in the democratic party either. hat tip to "wall street journal"'s james freeman for reminding us that biden's unconstitutional efforts to keep trump off the ballot is not all. biden also managed to cancel the florida democratic primary rather than face any competition from other democrats. and mr. freeman notes biden loyalists have eliminated a competitive primary in north carolina as well. plus, democrats are doing everything they can to keep democratic congressman dean phillips off the primary ballot wherever possible. so met me get this right -- let me get this right. mr. biden doesn't want republican trump to run against him, he won't let any democrat

run against him. kind of like a fearless leader cartoon character of autocrats. what you've got here is, according to congressman phillips, quote: the destruction of democracy by the people entrusted with protecting it. end quote. pretty good, mr. phillips. then there's the biden two-tiered justice system, their attempt to stifle free speech, their law breaking on the southern border, canceling student loans, censorship of anybody that may disagree we left-wing, woke diversity, equity and inclusion. trust me, folks, the spurt of the great father of our our country, george washington at valley forge, would be turning over in his grave. that is, if spirits could turn over. and that's my riff. joining me now, keeping me company right here on set, the great pete hegseth, cohost of "fox & friends" weekend, and out there in the ether zone my

pal pam bondi, former florida attorney general and cochair of the a afpi, law and justice center. and even greater, joe concha, media and politics columnist at "the messenger" and fox news contributor. so welcome, all. this is a very strange the story. celebrating the anniversary of january 6th on january ath -- 5th. of course, biden can't get anything right. joe concha, let me bin with you. what is your first take -- what does your instinct say about this business of biden attacking trump for democracy principles or the lack thereof? >> i mean, well, or first, to your point, could you with imagine, larry, if we had general joe biden instead of general josh washington -- can george washington in the winter of 1777 and they go to general biden and say, sorry, sir, we're going to have to move if up that surprise attack until tomorrow because of the 2 inches of snow

that's coming. [laughter] to your point, joe biden talked repeatedly how democracy is on the ballot, yet democrats and him want trump off the ballot. how is that democracy? he also talked about maga republicans being a threat to democracy on one hand and then talked about being a president to everyone including all those who didn't vote for him on the other. he kept referring to trump the as a wanna if be king, but if you look at the facts, joe biden has signed more executive orders than trump, than obama with, than bush. it's enough to make your hair hurt. this will boomerang and back fire, because i think many people see this isn't a president that can run on his record, it's running on attacking his opponent and keeping his opponent if from even being on the ballot. larry: boomerang, pete hegseth, that's an interesting thing. i mean, i think trying to keep trump off the ballot in colorado, maine and lord knows where else, that helps there trump, i think. does it actually boom boomerang against biden? >> i think it can because this

strawman's getting thinner. you know, with every year, every additional revelation, with every experience of what it's like to live under biden with a more dangerous world, a more dangerous country, less food on the table, all of those realities they hook at that and say, really? if you're still beating that dead horse again? when i look at my life three years ago, and it's not what you were talking about. i also think you contrasted with the optimism by which when donald trump does talk about what he wants to restore, it's basic security and sovereignty, all the issues that you talk about all the a time. so i think there will be a diminishing political efficacy to this as people realize that this is -- the autocratic speech is the one who wants to block their opponents off the a ballot. trump simply wants to beat biden. larry: see, that's the thing -- >> first of all, their demagogues, democrats, and they're autocrats. and that's where you get democrat from. and they would love to have a

one-party system if they could. larry: fearless leader. pam bondi, i think biden has a lot of explaining to do where he not only wants to keep trump off the ballot in these states, but also what james freeman wrote about which really struck me. freeman is such a good columnist, best of the web every day. you know, here's the democrats, the democratic national committee, you know they're in with the white house. they will not allow a primary in florida, they will not allow people to be on the ballot in north carolina, and their trying to stop this fella, congressman dean fill lips, wherever he -- dean phillips wherever he may be. how do you say i'm for democratic principles if you also say we're going to keep all of my competition off the ballot? in other words, i'm just asking for some plain, ordinary common sense. if trump makes that case or if nickny carol hi -- nikki haley or whoever republican makes that case, i think they win and biden loses on this issue. >> absolutely, larry.

and, you know, you have barack obama's former campaign manager telling republican -- democrats to register as republicans to beat trump in the primary. i mean, that's how desperate they're getting. finish it's truly unbelievable. you know, he talks about freedom, he talks about liberty. he defines democracy as the freedom to speak your truth? to speak the truth? yet his doj's put a gag order on president trump? if they're trying to lock him up forever. think when donald trump's poll numbers started to rise the highest, after the raid at mar-a-lago. americans saw that paramilitary raid at mar rahing lag go, and they were -- mar-a-lago, and they were disgusted by it. and they're trying to keep him off the ballot in colorado, in maine, in any state they can get away with it. but the united supreme court is going to have, i believe, a unanimous opinion overturning that, and that's when americans are really going to see what they're doing is baseless, and it's desperate.

as pete said, they're grasping at straws. larry: joe concha, i have not read the speech. obviously, biden just got through with it. i don't think there was advance copy, just a few paragraphs floating around. so i don't know what's all in the speech, joe, but it also strikes me as pete said a few moments ago, you know, get over january 6th. it's hard to point on trump. he was not charged with insurrection. he was certainly not convicted of inrex. his own speech -- insurrection. his own speech that day which was separate from what happened at the capitol basically said patriotic and peaceful, okay? that's all he ever said about it. i don't see how biden -- democrats keep going to that well, and i don't think that's going to be a very good thing for them especially when they've got all these other economic issues and bonderrer issues and foreign -- border issues and foreign policy issues and even cultural, dei, harvard, claudine gay-type issues.

>> larry, they go to that well because all the other wells are basically empty at this pointful it's why he is losing now among young voters, an unthinkable prospect three years ago, among hispanic voters. donald trump is gaining among black voters at this point, independents, women. we could go down the line because many americans are struggling to buy things they need on a daily basis. some are forced to take extra jobs. credit card debt passed, what, $1 trillion? if you have people chases after -- chasing after a interest instead of saving their money. we have a crisis at the border, budgets in cities like new york are seeing shortfallfalls by the billions. as a result, our border is open. the command orer in chief is not doing what george washington would have done which would be protect his citizens and the border. our warships are being attacked in the middle east on an hourly basis, there's no end in sight to the russia-ukraine war, and this is what the president is focused on? all while democrats declare they want to save democracy by

blowing it up? in the end, this is about dividing the country. that's what this was about today. but, hey, at least the bidens get another relaxing, full weekend by delaware by moving the speech up to friday. [laughter] larry: it's true. i guess valley forge is somewhere near wilmington. pete hegseth, is this a distraction? biden distributely keeping this issue -- i was reading one of the commentaries. this democratization issue and abortion are the two biggest themes for biden's re-election. >> yes. there was a report in politico -- larry: occurs to me that is really thin rule. really thin rule. >> the alternative is their record. so what the report in politico said that the young biden staffers, reelect staffers were just waiting for him to go full hitler. that's that they -- larry: full hitler on trump. >> on trump, meaning trump is9 hitler for the next ten months,

and you're to going to hear that on repeat plus abortion. because they believe that's hair only bank shot -- their only bank shot given their record. it's cynical, but they're e hoping it might be effective. larry: pam bondi, okay, so that's vealing. pam bondi, what's the strategy for donald trump? what should he do? how should he play this, in your opinion? >> keep doing what he's doing. say he's going to continue, he will secure our borders, he will make us energy independent. he loves our men and women in the military, and they know it. our first respond orsers. keep doing what he's doing. and his polls will continue to rise and, frankly, i think biden should keep doing what he's doing, and he's going to continue to tank in the polls because americans more than anything, larry, the basickings as a career prosecutor, americans want to be safe. and they know they were safe under donald trump. whether it's from our world enemies or our enemies at home. and all the criminals on the street now because of joe biden. larry: you know, joe concha, just one haas thought.

last thought. i think more people should look at no primary in florida, no primary in -- no democratic primary in florida, no democratic primary in north carolina keeping this guy -- i don't know dean phillips. i'm not familiar with his record. liberal, moderate, whatever he is from minnesota. i think this is an achilles heel. does anybody think that's important? i mean, you can't -- it's the pot calling the kettle black. biden's yelling at trump, his own party won't let anybody run against him. i want to get -- joe concha, give me a whack at it, and i want pete to too. to me, that is a vulnerable point, and the republicans should hammer away. they should be out there picketing we want a florida democratic primary. why won't you give us one? if. >> and they'd have to do that, are republicans and donald trump, larry, because the media certainly isn't going to report on this with the vigor that you're going to see this evening and tonight when they call this

greatest speech that joe biden or any president has ever given. i guarantee you'll highway -- hear that on another network. in the end, it's the dei democrats are versus the common sense conservatives. make the common sense points. it doesn't have to be anything elaborate, right? close the border, our education system needs to improve, a.g.s in cities have to improve in terms of enforcing the law and, obviously, don't spend money that you don't have particularly when inflation's still 250% higher than it was before this man took office and, obviously, energy independence. hammer those home, make it about the issues, donald trump should win easily. >> you're right in principle about the democratic side on the democrat side. there's nothing democratic about it, but nobody cares. and we're not going to be able to make anybody care. they don't care about dean phillips, about the primary in florida. they see we've got a sitting president who i says he's not going anywhere, joe biden gives

him his meds, so he's going to be on the ballot in november. i wish you were correct, but there's not enough education we could do to get people to care. louisiana i give it my best shot. [laughter] i don't want see why not. pam bondi, thank you. joe concha, pete hegseth. don't forget, folk, catch pete every saturday and sunday on fox and friends weeks. his cohosts will cain and rachel campos duffy. starts at 6 a.m. eastern on fox news 'cuz he's so good, i'm getting up early this weekend at 6 a.m. up next here on "kudlow," we're late to the party -- 4 p.m. in the afternoon. we're going to pretend to be a business show and talk about today's jobs report. you hook under the hood, it really wasn't such great shakes. we have, however, mr. wonderful, kevin o'leary, to weigh in when "kudlow" returns. i want primaries in florida, north carolina on the democratic side. nobody if else does. we'll be right back. happy new year, folks. ♪

(man) what if all i do for my type 2 diabetes isn't enough? or what if... (vo) once-weekly mounjaro could help. mounjaro helps your body regulate blood sugar and can help you eat less food. 3 out of 4 people reached an a1c of less than 7%. plus people lost up to 25 pounds. mounjaro is not for people with type 1 diabetes or children. don't take mounjaro if you're allergic to it, you or your family have medullary thyroid cancer, or multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. stop mounjaro and call your doctor right away if you have an allergic reaction, a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, vision changes, or diabetic retinopathy. serious side effects may include pancreatitis and gallbladder problems.

taking mounjaro with sulfonylurea or insulin raises low blood sugar risk. tell your doctor if you're nursing, pregnant, or plan to be. side effects include nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea, which can cause dehydration and may worsen kidney problems. (man) i can do diabetes differently with mounjaro. (vo) ask your doctor about once-weekly mounjaro.

get over here kids. time for today's lesson. wow. -whoa. what are those? these are humans. they rely on something called the internet to survive. huh, powers out. [ gasp ] are they gonna to die? worse, they are gonna get bored.

[ gasp ] wait look! they figured out a way to keep the internet on. yeah! -nature finds a way. [ grunt ] stay connected when the power goes out, with storm ready wifi from xfinity. and see migration in theaters now. larry: welcome back, folks. we are a business show, and we're going to talk briefly about the jobs report. top line looked okay, 216,000, but less the downward revision,

only 145,000. unfortunately, job gains in government, health, social assistance, leisure -- manufacturing has knotts moved in a year with. manufacturing hours worked continue their decline. in effect, the u.s. economy has stopped producing goods. meanwhile, the other survey, the small business/household survey, that thing cratered almost 700,000. second big drop in the last three months. even worse, 667,000 dropped out of the labor force altogether. temporary workers fell for the is 19th -- 11th straight month. plus, the ism services report had a big drop drop, and that followed the 16th straight decline of ism manufacturing. okay, production wages up over 4%, that did beat inflation. but you've still got yourself lower weekly earnings. typical families having trouble making ends meet.

so let us bring in mr. wonderful, the great kevin o'leary, chairman of leery ventures, "shark tank" investor, author of "cold hard truth on business, money and life." kevin o'leary, welcome. i love to have you on these days. one thing that's an odd thing, markets think the fed is going to cut interest rates like crazy. i would venture to say even though this is not a fabulous report that there aren't going to be any fed rate cuts no time soon, and market could retreat on that. what says kevin o'leary? >> well, you gave a shopping list of data that is, that tells me that the march cut isn't going to happen. and i'll tell you why, a basically. everybody's trying to divine what the fed e ooh's going to do. the market would love to see the fed to the series of cuts even starting in the fist quarter with. but unfortunately -- the first quarter. but with, unfortunately, the number that really matters is inflation still sticking at

4.1%. you can debate how that inflation number is actually calculated, but the fed's mandate is 2%. it's not 3%, not 3.5%, it's not 2.5 percent. it's 2. so the idea that they would sit up there at 4.1 even with all the data you talked about and actually do any kind of a cut in march, i think, is a dream. it's just a fatherly tale at this point. -- fairy tail at this point. you've seen the series of trading days in this new year that have been negative for the market as it tries to digest the fact that the fed won't be cutting as fast as nick thinks. -- anybody thinks. and also the data as you ghei it shows that the probability of a soft landing remains at least 50-50. this economy, buoyed by the consumer, remains buoyant. now, the one number that concerns me more than any is household small business. that was a bad number, larry. sorry about that one. larry: no, that's right. and i put that,s look, i've been

looking at these numbers for a long, long, long, long time the household survey, which is predominantly smaller businesses, that's what with forms the unemployment rate and a number of very important benchmark if issues for labor market strength. it looks weak. but i think your other point, i think the fed will be paralyzed, kevin. in other words, at the end of last year you had this huge rally, you know, i'm glad. kudlow indexes went up, the kudlow trust went up. everybody was bullish and happy, and that's good, but seven rate cuts were priced into the markets according to some futures a markets, and i think that was nuts. and i think that is a warning. i'm not saying the economy's collapsing. i agree with you, soft landing, 50-50, that kind of thing. but all these rate cuts? i don't know, i think people are way ahead of themselves. >> no, you're right. clearly what we have to worry about now is what we talked

about in the past. small business represents 60 of job creation. the cracks are showing there first, primarily the cost of capital to small business as provided to them by regional banks which are kind of stuck right now waiting for new policy on liquidity. so the loan books are very, very tight. now, i don't know if you're aware of this, larry, but on january 18th there will be hearings in washington specifically to deal with small business in america. on a whole wide range of topics. one of the ones that's concerning me is the next round of support from the federal government is all going to the s&p 500 in two giant acts, the chips and saint act and, of course, the inflation reduction act. i don't find a lot of money in there, $2 trillion, but e -- i see none for small business, and i'm going to be educated on january 18th. i will be meeting with the secretary of commerce, i'll be reporting back. she promises me there's $9 billion for the sciences and chips act for small business

because i am small business. i deal with small business every day, and we're not feeling too good right now. [laughter] i love you on small business with, kevin. i love you in general, as you know, but i don't love you on more government subsidies. i don't love you on picking winners and losers. now, i know the administration has, you know, spent $6 billion in three years, and there's all kinds of green energy subsidies and chip subsidies and and this and that. i just don't think that's the way to make america great. i mean, i think small business, for example, would like a easing of the $3 trillion of regulations and paperwork that they're suffering from p. now, that would be something. unfortunately, this administration, they're regulators. and i think if you go down there, you should say wake up and undo something. deregulate. i'm kevin o'leary, the king of deregulation. >> well, larry, i agree with that. i'd rather is have better policy

on regulation than anything else. however, the chips act and the inflation reduction act, that is now law, and i'm putting up my hand for small business saying i want 6%, basically i want 6 cents out of every dime, 60 cents out of every dollar because i represent 6 out of 10 jobs. so what i -- listen, if the money's coming, it's coming out of a helicopter. i didn't say i liked it, i said i know i'm coming. so i'm on the ground looking up at the sky saying where's my if 60%? if i'm 60% of job creation and you gave it all to the s&p 500, how did you help america? you just took it away from the people that actually are the backbone of this country. and you gave it all to the big guys who don't have any trouble raising money. that's my beef, larry. that's why i'm going to washington. somebody's going -- got to ring the bell for the small guy. that's me. larry: good luck, kevin. wish you a lot of luck on that. you know what? i know politically it's always better to giveth than to taketh

away, but i would argue if you want to help somebody, instead of spending more how about cutting taxes? if i gotta get out of here. and regulations. kevin o'leary, the great. coming up, folks, we're just ten days away from the iowa caucuses, and eight days later or new hampshire. my god, i can hardly deal with this. the anxieties are so huge. how's the race for 2024 looking? who's going to win iowa? expwho's going to win new hampshire? we've got guy benson and byron york, and you've got account kudlow," and we'll be right back with everything. ♪ ♪ oh thanks! i splurged a little because liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. that's great. i know, right? i've been telling everyone. baby: liberty. did you hear that? ty just said her first word. can you say “mama”? baby: liberty. can you say “auntie”? baby: liberty.

how many people did you tell? only pay for what you need. jingle: ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ baby: ♪ liberty. ♪ ♪ i have type 2 diabetes, but i manage it well. ♪ ♪ jardiance ♪ ♪ it's a little pill with a big story to tell. ♪ ♪ i take once-daily jardiance, ♪ ♪ at each day's staaart. ♪ ♪ as time went on it was easy to seee. ♪ ♪ i'm lowering my a1c. ♪ jardiance works 24/7 in your body to flush out some sugar! and for adults with type 2 diabetes and known heart disease, jardiance can lower the risk of cardiovascular death, too. jardiance may cause serious side effects including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, that can lead to sudden worsening of kidney function, and genital yeast or urinary tract infections.

a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking jardiance and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, ketoacidosis, or an allergic reaction, and don't take it if you're on dialysis. taking jardiance with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. ♪ jardiance is really swell, ♪ ♪ the little pill with a big story to tell. ♪ people are excited about what ai will do for them. we're excited about what ai will do for business. meet the watsonx assistants, ai designed to multiply output by automating tasks. when you watsonx your business, you can use ai assistants to help coders code faster, customer service respond quicker, and employees handle repetitive tasks in less time. let's create ai assistants that transform business with watsonx. ibm. let's create. i was only 23 when i was first diagnosed with non-melanoma skin cancer. 40 years later, i've had almost 20 mohs surgeries.

i had just accepted that the pain and the scars were going to be part of my life. but when i was diagnosed with two basal cells on my face, i became determined to find an alternative to surgery. if you, like millions of others, are affected by skin cancer... it's important to know that surgery isn't the only option. there's another choice. gentlecure. it sounded like everything i had been looking for. gentlecure uses low energy x-rays to kill skin cancer cells with a 99% cure rate. plus, there's no cutting, no surgical scarring and no downtime. i'm so glad i did it. it was successful in every way. to learn more, call today or go to gentlecure.com only sleep number smart bed let you each choose your individual firmness and comfort. your sleep number setting. and actively cools and warms up to 13 degrees on either side.

the queen sleep number® c2 smart bed is now only $990. plus, special financing. shop for a limited time, only at sleep number. at st. jude, the mission is just something that everyone can truly get behind. look at our little st. jude pin there on the fridge!

we're just regular people donating. yeah. and i think it's cool to be able to make a difference in someone's lives in a way that is meaningful. when you walk up to the counter at the pharmacy and you have a new prescription, you don't know what it's going to cost. that's why i always recommend you check the singlecare app before you go to the counter. i found the cheaper price with singlecare! yes, you did. see. give it a try. go to singecare.com or download the free app today. ♪ ♪ larry: all right, final countdown, ten days away from the iowa caucus, eight days after that a comes new hampshire. i don't know who's going to win. our experts probably do. we've got guy benson, political editor of townhall.com and fox news contributor, host of the

guy benson show on fox news radio, and we've got guy ron york, washington examiner -- byron york, fox news contributor. gentlemen, thank you very much. byron york, you know everything. you know everything about politics as long as i've known you down through the many years. let's start with iowa. who's going to win? >> looks like donald trump, doesn't it? i mean, his lead is absolutely huge, and pit e really hasn't changed. it's at, i think, 32 points now, the real clear politics average of polls. and if you go back to 2016, the last time they had a contested republican primary, there's a lot of controversy because the des moines register poll which is supposed to be the gold standard had showed that trump was going to one by 4-5 points and, in fact, ted cruz won by 4-5 points, those are tiny numbers compared to trump's 32-point lead right now. so, you know, it's very hard to see a lead like that evaporating in the next ten days.

larry: guy benson, i reckon you probably agree with that, but i was thinking second and third. 'cuz i'm going to talk nikki haley in a minute, and we're going to play some sound from former governor haley. but it -- i know we have the sound bite. but it might, it might matter who finishes second in iowa. >> it might. larry: it might. [laughter] >> and i would say that the desantis campaign has worked extremely hard in iowa. he went to all 99 counties. all the eggs are in that bass basket for him. he's going to look to overperform. whether he can make up that gap and win, be a huge shock on caucus night, but you never know. we keep saying, well, the voters haven't said anything yet. that'll change very, very soon. but then there could be a completely different outcome in a place like new hampshire where his campaign is basically -- i don't want to call it dead, but not really attempting anything there. single digits. nikki haley appears to be, thiess for now, surging at the right time within single digits of donald trump. so you could get, let's say, a

decent showing, a second place showing by desantis in iowa and then a close bun, but if trump wins again in new hampshire -- and he is ahead in the polling average -- can then it's really hard to imagine a path for anyone other than him to claim the crown. larry: all right. nikki haley's fighting like hell in new hampshire. now, she's made some mistakes. i'm not saying she's going to correct the iowa -- that stuff, too much horse race for maine gentlemen, i want you to listen toe -- though, nikki haley was on fox news this afternoon, "america reports." here's what she said about a pardon of donald trump. >> well, i think you only do it if someone's -- i think you only do it if someone's found guilty. so what i'll say is this is about moving the country forward, and the last thing e -- we want to see is an 80-year-old former president sitting in jail. larry: byron, that's a very clever thing she's doing. now, i know mr. trump won't like

it. she's not only saying she'll pardon him if he's guilty, but that last thing we want is an 80-year-old with former president sitting in jail. so she's being compassionate, byron -- [laughter] i know. she's being compassionate. but she's making a very tough, difficult, one could say cruel point. what do you think about that? [laughter] >> yeah, she's being compassionate because the former president's advanced age which, by the way, is a lot older than she is. so, yeah, that's one way to make that that point. on the other hand, you know, i think the idea of pardoning trump is a very safe thing to say in the republican primary. ron desantis has said he would do the same thing if, of course, donald trump would never admit that he would be guilty of anything. so among the three top contenders, there's just not a question about a it. now, when the general election comes around, the republican nominee is either going to be

trump himself or a candidate who has said he or she would pardon trump. and that actually could be an issue because the general election campaign might coincide with one of the trials of trump going on and daily revelations, all that sort of thing. so i would look for the pardoning trump issue to continue to be an issue maybe all the way to election day. >> but for now, larry, that's not a bad answer at all -- larry: i'm now. >> -- because she's saying i'm not going to get ahead of myself and say i'll do something that might not be necessary. larry: it reminds people. >> but at the very end, he's very old. larry: and at the very end, he's under legal attack -- >> right. >> although, i mean, the electorate knows that. they're well aware -- larry: it's like she's the compassionate republican. >> it's helped him. larry: it's very interesting. very clever tactic. didn't work for gerry ford, i might add. just saying.

i'm old enough to remember. i don't think -- no, byron's got to be old enough. jerry ford -- you read about it. >> i know that it happened. i wasn't around. larry: that's right. well, i was around for it. gerry ford faced a recession and a nix if son pardon -- >> that's tough. larry: therefore, lost to president cart or finish. >> barely though. march lahr you're quite right. byron, what is the all this other chatter? what's the issue here? i know a horse race, polls. byron york, what's the issue? donald trump has a lead in both states. it mate be narrowing in new hampshire or not. we will see. who's the issues winner? if i mean, i'm trying to figure out exactly, because i don't hear a lot of issues other than mr. trump. >> yeah, that's a great question. you say, well, gee, is there some different issues, positions on the border or crime or international affairs? yeah, there's some differences, but, in fact, really the big

issue is trump. because the republican party divides between trump supporters and people who want to move on, and the large majority right now are the trump supporters. and unless that changes, he's going to win the nomination. and what's really kind of extraordinary now, it does look like iowa is so solid for trump, but we have epstein a lot of motion toward -- a lot of motion toward halely in new hampshire. one caution i would make, we're all talking about momentum for haley in new hampshire, but it's been a couple weeks since we've changed a good poll. and if this is really changing fast, it may have changed more. obviously, if haley wins new hampshire, that blows up the republican race. it's just huge, the change is incredible. and then they go to south carolina which just happens to be haley's home state. but with it's a state where trump is incredibly popular. larry: of course, trump will -- i'll just observe -- trump will close with the kind of energy he

always closes with. he will be everywhere on his airplane all at once in both primaries. he'll run 7-8 events a day -- >> which he hasn't really been doing at all, but he'll maybe turn it on late, afterburners and all of that. larry: and he'll do the same thing in new hampshire. he's been really good at it. >> desantis has been focused on issues. haley's been focused on issues. the push for trump seems to be there's unfinished bids here, and you were -- bids here, and you were better off under me. and that very well could be enough. larry: and i'll close the border. >> yeah. it's a disaster. it's such a disaster. larry: guy, who's your favorite in the democratic primary in florida and north carolina? [laughter] oh, wait a minute -- >> yeah. larry: i'm sorry, who's your favorite in that race? did you e say? >> i think they're not doing one this time around. larry: byron -- >> the democracy party. larry: is that possible? the democracy party from valley

forge is not holding a democratic presidential primary in north carolina or florida? despite the fact that there are some other democrats running? what do you make of that, byron york? >> that is absolutely the case. now, it's happened before with incumbent presidents where the party didn't hold a primary or -- can. >> including trump. >> florida's a very, very important case. what you're seeing though is robert f. kennedy jr. specifically getting enough support in the states where he might have valid access. remember, he's only got access in utah so far. but he might have valid access to actually make a significant difference in that race. can ballot access. and the last thing the biden white house and campaign wants is another candidate in the race who might if take away fromjoe biden whether it be joe manchin on a no labels candidacy -- which has not happened at this point -- robert f. kennedy can

jr., cornel west. they need every single vote they can get. larry: the party of democracy has no democracy, i'm sorry. guy benson, byron york, happy new year. we appreciate it. >> thank you, larry are. larry: president biden's southern border, a complete catastrophe. we're going to talk to lifelong democrat javier palomar rest, head of the u.s. hispanic business council. he voted for biden, but i don't think he's going to do it again. i'm kudlow, we will be right back. back. ♪ little marzipan! [ laughs ] oh, my daughter gives the best hugs! we're just passing through on our way to the jazz jamboree. [ imitates trumpet playing ] and we wanted to thank america's number-one motorcycle insurer -for saving us money. -thank you. [ laughs ] mara, your parents are -- exactly like me? i know, right? well, cherish your friends and loved ones. let's roll, daddio! let's boogie-woogie! your best defense against erosion and cavities

is strong enamel- nothing beats it. new pronamel active shield actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. i think that this product is a gamechanger for my patients- it really works.

i don't want you to move. i'm gonna miss you so much. you realize we'll have internet waiting for us at the new place, right? oh, we know. we just like making a scene. transferring your services has never been easier. get connected on the day of your move with the xfinity app. can i sleep over at your new place? can katie sleep over tonight?

sure, honey! this generation is so dramatic! move with the xfinity 10g network.

larry: so the catastrophe at the border continues, and the question is, is anybody watching doing anything about it? our own hillary vaughn live from capitol hill with the latest. hillary, what you got? >> reporter: hi, larry. these talks continue to drag into the new year. we still don't have text, and the senate negotiators are not even sure what they will have to brief their senate colleagues on when they return to capitol hill next week. senator chris murphy says they've blown past their deadlines and that it's not smart to keep putting timelines on this process. the white house has been laser focused on talks in the senate. they've also shameed house speaker mike john stomp for leaving in december without a deal, but the house passed a border bill, h.r. 2. but democrats see it as toxic, and negotiator james lankford

says the white house has made it clear the president will veto it. he also said e the substance is not bad, so maybe some of those policies perhaps will make it into the final deal, but we don't have those details yet. even9 if the senate comes up with some type of deal, there's no guarantee speaker johnson will bring it up for a floor vote, and there is a chance johnson could come off the bench himself and put himself into the arena of negotiations. a source familiar with johnson's strategy tells me that johnson has considered negotiating directly with the white house, but that is not the plan as of now. they are letting things play out on the senate side. but if the senate doesn't come up with something that the house can stomach, perhaps there's a play here for speaker johnson to step up and just go straight to 1700 pennsylvania avenue. larry? larry: i think that's the way to do it. that is the way to do it. go to 1600 pennsylvania. that's the way to do it. anyway, hillary vaughn, thank you ever so much. joining us now to talk about this, javier palomar less,

president and ceo of the hispanic business council. i'm told he's a lifelong democrat that went for biden in 2020. javier, all that's very very interest, but i don't know if you know what's in h.r. 2, if your group follows this. it's essentially build a wall, remain in mexico, probably reenhance title 42, try to go after some of the cartels. i mean, tell me what your group down there would like to see. let's be constructive in the new year. >> well, let me tell you, first of all, thank you for having me on, larry. the united states hispanic business council represents the 4.5 million hispanic-owned firms in this country that collectively contribute over $800 billion to the american economy. and the only thing we're prouder of than being hispanic is being american. and i have to say, and you called me out in your lead-in, i i am a lifelong democrat. but i've got to tell you, the biden administration's

management of the southern border is an absolute disaster. larry: yeah, we know that. so let me ask you though, all right, you're the business side. do you want to build a wall? do you want to restore remain in mexico? do you want to have a title 42? what are the things to help hispanic businesses that would do the best, in your judgment? >> well, this isn't about just hispanic businesses. this is about american business, period. larry: okay. i like that. >> right now there are cornerstone industries that rely on immigrant labor like manufacturing, agriculture, construction, hospitality, even technology. in the agricultural sector alone, larry, 73% of the labor is of immigrant background. but the people in ag are telling me that in 2022 we lost over 10 million tons of produce and and fruit ifs that went unharvested because of the mess that's town

at the southern border. larry: right. >> we need the labor, but we need a system that blocks out those that are here to do us harm and lets in those that are here to help. there are cornerstone industries that rely on that immigrant labor, but this administration has just played so much with this issue that right now everything is on deadlock. we have over 4 million cases that need to be read through. it's going to take us years to get through that process. larry: undoubtedly some deregulation on that would be a big help, but with you mostly need -- you need -- he needs to restore the border, it seems to me. i'm running out of time, javier. we'll to this finish. >> think about it this way, larry, under joe biden's administration, 6 million people have illegally crossed the southern border. larry: yeah, i got it. >> that's 1.5 million more than the last 10 years combined. think about that for just a second. larry: good luck. i gotta go, javier. we'll talk some more about this. thank you ever so much.

good luck to you. i'll be right back with my last word. mug. ♪ ♪ the virus that causes shingles is sleeping... in 99% of people over 50. it's lying dormant, waiting... and could reactivate. shingles strikes as a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. and it could wake at any time. think you're not at risk for shingles? it's time to wake up. because shingles could wake up in you. if you're over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention.

thanks to avalara, we can calculate sales tax automatically. avalarahhhhhh what if tax rates change? ahhhhhh filing sales tax returns? ahhhhhh business license guidance? ahhhhhh -cross-border sales? -ahhhhhh -item classification? -ahhhhhh does it connect with acc...? ahhhhhh ahhhhhh ahhhhhh only sleep number smart bed let you each choose your individual firmness and comfort. your sleep number setting. and actively cools and warms up to 13 degrees on either side. the queen sleep number® c2 smart bed is now only $990.

plus, special financing. shop for a limited time, only at sleep number. the first time you made a sale online with godaddy was also the first time you heard of a town named dinosaur, colorado. we just got an order from dinosaur, colorado. start an easy to build, powerful website for free with a partner that always puts you first. start for free at godaddy.com you know what's interesting these days? bitcoin. look for bitwise, my friends. family and larry: if you know who i'm talking about. but then again liz macdonald always knows who i'm talking