to accurately represent the amount of total paper the average american uses year after year? 1,000 yards? 5,000? 10,000? you'd have to walk over 30 miles, un-spooling as you go. yes, i realize that would mean the role of toilet paper in question would be many times the size of your home. that's not the point. the point is we use and reuse an awful lot of paper in this country, which means there is an awful lot of opportunity in the paper industry. you can check those opportunities out at mikeroweworks.org/haw. something to consider next time you find yourself sitting there in the reading room, pondering the mysteries of how america works. see you next time. larry: hello, folks. welcome to kudlow, i'm

l arry kudlow. so former president trump in court today in washington, d.c. arguing he has presidential inc immunity in january six cases, remember fani willis, she was in in romantic relationship -- with a top prosecutor that she hired. we'll talk about it with our legal experts, gregg jarrett later on, roger on hunt for lloyd austin. i don't know where he is and senator eric schmitt on why 95% of illegal americans get to say in america, and donald trump is up 30 points in iowa and 20 in new hampshire. all this coming up on kudlow, but first.

let's head to washington d.c. our hillary vaughn is there live, in col b color, good afternoon. reporter: good afternoon. former president trump did not have to show up to court today, here in dc, but he did just 6 days out from the iowa caucus, president trump traded what would be a big campaign rally on the trail for a day in court. the reason why, what comes out of this could be a game changer for trump's legal problems, key question, the judges will decide after today, is president trump entitled to presidential immunity, if they decide trump does have immunity that could shut down the special counsel criminal case, against trump for alleged effort to overturn 2020 election, trump's attorney, said that trump does have immunity and behavior in question by special counsel were official acts not private conduct and president trump

of the acting in his capacity as president. he said that impeachment and conviction, process laid out in the constitution sets stage for that if appropriate. countered that argument that blanket immunity for presidents is dangerous if exploited. >> what kind of world are we living in if as i understood my friend to say, a president orders his seal team to assassinate a political rival, and resigns for example, before an impeachment? not criminal. and president sells a pardon orb, not i'm peopled not a crime. >> president trump was in courtroom today so was special counsel jack smith, they got a taste of face-to-face showdown that could happen in march.

trump today says that this is political and an effort to influence 2024 election. >> i think it is unfair when a opponent, a political opponent is prosecuted by the doj by biden's doj this is the openings of a pandora's box, a very sad thing that happened with this situation, they talk about threat to democracy, that is your real threat to democracy. reporter: the court will came out with its decision in a few days or weeks, but it seems like this supreme court will have the final wordo this issue. larry: hillary vaughn thank you. >> a few comments from me, on this and other things. i want to make a couple points about joe biden and his administration's inability to tell the truth. now, the defense secretary lloyd austin going awol an

example we wish general austin a total full recovery of his whil health issues, but that not the problem, the problem is he or his staff did not follow the proper chain of command, it sounds like a cover-up, when i served in white house i wound up in walter reed on two separate occasions in the icu, but my staff immediately informed president and cabinet secretary. mine were short stays. fortunately and the boss called me to see how i was doing, there is nothing hard about that. it should be just common sense. but the situation room people knew, white house operators knew, my colleagues knew, my team knew, but defense secretary out ranks nec director, in terms of communication that office is much greater

responsibility to let the president know. this is not about diagnosing health issues about communication proi protocol, now team biden is ordering a review of cabinet protocols that is goofy, this is common sense. where are the adults? remember, general austin, running two wars under the direction of the come manner in chief. here, commander in chief never called his top defense secretary, and. cover-up? truth telling? common sense? not a chance. wait. wait. this austin awol fiasco is going on, dhs secretary mayorkas got caught with his hand in the cookie jar. again. because he was fibbing about the illegal immigrants coming into the u.s. and staying here.

now he is trying to sell news media that only 70% of the illegal stayed here and under questioning he raised it to 85%, well, both are awful numbers but wait, it turns out, when immigration and custom enforcement i.c.e. did their year end review, that over 95 percent have been released into the interior of the country. hat tip to breitbart news for those numbers and 2023 or than 3.2 million illegals were encountered at the border and 142 thousand were deported by i.c.e. so, last year, illegal aliens, who arrived in the u.s., had a 4.4% chance of being deported within the year. mayorkas not much of a truth teller, is he, and joe biden on down, this administration keeps lying to the american

people, that the border is closed. well, where are those pictures that we see on nightly news shows, closed, really? truth telling? and joe biden keeping telling us how he is cutting think about deficit, that is aan an -- yo untruth and biden keeping tells us how good the economy is, a poll shows 45% say they are worse off now than a year ago, and other polls show 68% describe the economy in negative terms, in last 3 years, inflation price increases have out spi outstripped worker wages, no truth telling there. and finally, in biden legal war against donald trump the president and his justice department and various special counsels.

lying about donald trump's so-called insurrection, a new story from georgia branch of biden directed legal war against trump reports that district attorney fani willis hired an alimbing alleged boyfriend to prosecute donald trump, hired a lawyer who never prosecuted anything before. she appointed him special prosecutor and paid him 654 thousand dollars in legal fees, since january of 2022. this story gets better. the two of thing took 654 grand on a world tour. vacations on two cruise ships out to napa valley for a glass of wine then back to florida for fun in the sun. i have not heard the biden press operation talk about this yet. i am looking forward to

their response. think they will fess up in doubt it, that is my riff. >> now, serious legal expertise on this. we welcome sol wisenberg, and gregg jarrett and author of the constitution of u.s. and other documents, sol, welcome to the show. let me start on the immunity issue, how do you read the plea by president trump? and will there will he will appeal if he does not get it here to supreme court, your take? >> irrespective of merits of his position, i don't think he will win at dc circuit this is clear. from the oral argument today. so the real issue is how will they deal with it, and

whether the supreme court will even take it up. there are a lot different options. the court could just say you know what, up onl reflexing we don't think we have jurisdiction in this matter more they could decide the i'immunity claims are outweighedded. if they knock it out on jurisdictional grounds it will go back to trial court there is a less of a chance ta supreme court would decide to hear it. larry: playing sound. here is the former president donald trump today. >> as a president you have to have immunity. it is unfair when a opponent, a political

opponent is prosecuted by the doj, i think they feel this is the way to try to win, as we said the opening of a pand ora's box it a sad thing that happened with this whole situation. when they talk about threat to democracy, that is your real threat to democracy. larry: all right, gregg jarrett, first welcome back. happy new year. you know. i don't understand, how you prosecute a former president, for actions he took while he was president. three years later. i never understand that. it has to be -- i am not the lawyer. but i don't know how you get away with that gregg jarrett, maybe immunity is not the best argument maybe free speech would be a better argument, what do you think? >> the immunity argument is hard for trump to make, because there is no

precedent. and based on the discourse today, i think that sol is right. the three judge panel appeared skeptical that a president has absolute i thinimmunity for any alleged criminal acts in office that does not mean in the long run trump's argument is not credible, i think it is. but that is to say, he acted 1 sis t with his sworn today to enforce the laws including ensuring laws of free and care election, if he saw evidence of fraud or believed there was faulty vote counting event if that believe was mistaken is he not entitled and duty bound to bring illegal challenges and allow contest ors on january 6 as democrats did in previous elections under the electoral count act there is immunity in civil cases, but does it extend to criminal cases. we just don't know.

larry: you know, sol, i am the nonlawyer, but, you know to gregg's point in a sense. i don't know if immunity works or not. some team talk about double jeopardy, i don't know if that works. but it seems to me, sol at bottom, donald trump as president at least, exercised his first amendment right of free speech. he gave opinions, about the election. and i think they are trying to bust him for that, sol. and to me, that smacks of politics. throwing your major competitor in jail for 700 years, it smacks of politics, note law, free speech, how you can bust a president for that? >> you make a very important point. and you have to make a distinct insura distinction between the immunity arguments which are legal argument and double

jeopardy and look at what jack smith charged, i think if is a weak indictment and tinged with political issues you are right, such as is he not allowed to speak about the issues there is no question for example mentioned in the indictment is that he thought about firing his acting attorney general and replacing him with jeff clark. and that is a quin executive act there are real problems, beyond the other legal issues there are problem with this indictment, and how it will go forward and how the trial will go forward. larry: gregg jarrett, we always run out of time, this fani willis, i don't know if you know her, i don't know if you know the boyfriend, i

don't know whether you got 650 grand for a couple hours of work, they are going on a world tour with taxpayer money that story just broke. i like this story. and i thought, i would give you a chance to talk about fani willis and her boyfriend. >> have georgia case, was always tainted by political bring, man up -- prejudice but now. this resembles a screw ball comedy. it was pillow talk to lead to manufactured changed against trump, i think that trial judge needs to hold a hearing, demand answers there is a huge conflict of interest. that is obvious, it is severe. and if warranted, judge should then refer the accusations again willis to state attorney general

christopher carr for immediate investigation and meantime, pause the future trial until that probe is finished. and the public can be assured that the prosecution against trump of the not poisoned by corrupt conduct because that is what is described here, also disbarrable, and potentially criminal. she might want to talk to a good criminal lawyer in the near future. larry: she has as you put it, so delicatesly, here pair more parramore. live that line, that is why you are so good, gregg, talk about parramores. >> i am old, that is an old word. larry: i just say boyfriend, you know 650 grand. we're off to the world in grand tour. that is about 24 hours since the story broke, so far i heard no comments from

georgia or out of white house. i just can't wait to hear. how they political it, anyway, thank you ever so much sol wisenberg. >> and gregg jarrett, on kudlow, marin, mayorkas got hot with his hand in cookie jar fibbing about number are illegals released in country, we're up on to 95%, wait, who are those people? anyway. senator eric schmitt will weigh in on that. >> bidenomics and other things. you could catch kudlow, monday, through friday 4 p.m. every day on fox business, if you can't do, that just particular your favorite 9 -- text your favorite 9-year-old and she will teach you thousand dvrs show, i am kudlow, no mari parra i love your dress. oh thanks! i splurged a little because liberty mutual

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larry: 95 percent of illegals stay in the country. question is what is g.o.p. do about this. bringing in senator eric schmitt. as always sir happy new year. you are on a letter with

your colleagues to john barrasso you will have a republican conference meeting tomorrow. what do you want to come up with senator on this illegal immigration disaster? >> well there have been negotiations about what sort of language change could take place, i am more skeptical than my colleagues, you have an administration that is not interested in enforcing the law, they do have tools in place to second our the border, they don't want to do it, on day one they reversed all things under president trump, remain in mexico. title 42, we pushed back and had to go to court to enforce the judgment, this is an open border crowd, this is what they want. for me i'm skeptical of a border deal that just unlocks ukraine money. larry: senator eric schmitt, the question, what might joe

biden give up if you had a serious negotiation about fixing the border? i think that is part of your skepticism, mr. langford is working on this and barrasso and a lot of smart guys what would biden give up? >> my concern he you know joe biden seeing the polls, may want to give lip service to the issue. high now -- he understands he lost american people on this, 75%, or higher believe we have a real crisis at the southern border. they tried to ignore it but all the while this is part of their game plan that white house is filled with sort of these ivy league grads who have written white papers on benefits' open borders they view themselves at glob global citizens not americans, if you understand their ethos you understand

why we are at why we are at. the national championship game last night in stadium in houston, if you add up all illegals since joe biden came in office it would not be 10 or 50 of those stadiums or 100 it would be 117 of those stadiums packed with people who have come here illegally, they are not doing anything about it nothing will change. and i think we should take them at their word, they came in saying it is what they were doing, we should be skeptical in any of the real discusses. mayorkas, himself, does not want to do enforce the law. also the parole process, important to understand they are individual determinations on asylum or the parole process, they are

making it huge class cases that is illegal -- classifications that illegal right now. larry: i know senator eric schmitt, you are i big fan of bidenomics, we will put up a poll, what is your financial state, 45% think they are worse off. 23% think they are better off and 29% about the same. almost half of those polled think they are worse off to bidenomics, what do you make of that? >> you trust the people, right? they know it. all this nonsense well a slogan to convince people they are doing better than they are with bidenomics failed. i think they stopped calls it bidenomics, i don't know, but the truth is, the average family out there is paying over 10,000 dollars more a year for this the same stuff they paid for a few years ago, people feel

it, you have inflation issue, which is not going away,z inflation is cumulative. over 3 years, wages have not kept up with rising cost, when you spend trillions of dollars you don't have, like here in washington, with joe biden, and you declare war on domestic energy production the cost ofy everything goes up, supply chain coast costs go up every where, that is what people are feeling. it is validated when they go shopping, moms and dads know this, when you if to t go to the gas pump they know this. americans are calling bs on it. larry: michelle obama. says she is terrified at increasing probability that donald trump will be reelected, terrified. imagineo, that a grown woman. someone help her.

>> i am sure that mansion in martha's vineyard, where they are so worried about climate changes same fear about donald trump coming back? larry: all right, sippe senator eric schmitt, good luck tomorrow thank you, sir. >> happy new year. larry: coming up on kudlow. remember where is waldo? why did defense secretary lloyd austin really go awol? i don't get it, i don't understand that story, we'll ask ranking member of the senate armed services committee senator roger wick irwicker of mississippi, and latest polls, trump up 35 in wa watch 20 in new hampshire, former president trump leading in swing states that is why michelle obama is terrified. we break it down with liz peek and deroy murdock on the sit, i love company, all that whe you got this. let's go.

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larry: welcome back we'll go to washington, d.c., for great peter doocy, what is the latest in this lloyd austin story, help us out. reporter: it is extraordinary we were told in white house briefing that president biden fund out today the -- found out today, the same day as general public his defense secretary has been getting treatment for prostate cancer. >> secretary of defense for whatever reason, i can't answer why, that information was not shared why -- it is not good. not good, which is why we want to learn from this, make sure it doesn't happen again.. reporter: the issue is pran paretrans pea

transparency. white house is accepting his contrition, but they don't know why he waited so long to tell his boss and others in chain of command. >> why should we believe anything that this administration tells us about anything ever again? >> i think we all recognize and i think pentagon has been very honest with themselves about the challenge to credibility by what has transpired hire and by what -- by, how, how hard it was for them to be fully transparent with american people. reporter: here at biden white house they don't see it as a biden house issue but a pentagon issue, protocoled not followed

across potomac, defense department didn't know here, that ignores the fact that at the time that u.s. troops are under fire in middle east, president biden did not' for several days that his defense secretary was in the hospital receiving treatment for a serious illness, we now know prostate cancer. larry: peter doocy challenge to credibility, we have to remember that line. fabulous thank you for reporting. >> all right we'll talk more on this, bring in senator roger wicker who is ranking member of armed service committee. senator wicker thank you, sir. you probably heard that report from peter doocy, challenge to credibility? i don't get it. i worked in white house years ago. you tell me, you are the guy in senate armed services committee, what is going on here? >> well, listen, larry, it

was not that long ago you worked in white house, we want you back. i'm looking forward to, that but now you are a member of -- remember this does strain cre-- we were told this was an elective procedure. i would not view prostate cancer surgery as a simple elective procedure, and when ambulance comes to get you, and this case, on the first of january, and takes you to the hospital, there are tubes running down into the abdomen, the secretary is incapacitated and public should know and stawt out shostatute should be followed.

secretary of defense is a big job. >> he is also part of th chain of command. larry: i don't know how he could not exercise what i call common sense, let the white house know, lit the president know or office of the president know, let cabinet secretary know, let situation room know. senator this is not hard. if you look at it in those terms it should not be hard, austin made is hard and biden of contributing to making it hard. >> he made it worse on himself, but further, a violation of the federal statute. there is a the reason under the constitution, we have a co-equal branch, legislative branch and statute said, let it be known up and down the chain but also make sure that congress is no is --

notified, we're told now, we have to get it straight, we're told this happened before, not unusual for authority to be transferred to deputy, and what i want to know is why congress, if this happens frequently, why isn't congress told about this, if they feel statute does not apply to them, we could clarify that statute, there is no question, we need to be told if the law says it not only common sense, but actually required by the law. larry: senator, do you want him to resign out right? what is your feeling on this. >> i know, i don't think he will resign. and i think we can put it past us, i am glad we know what is wrong, i hope everyone learned a lesson, that i want to do an internal 30 day investigation. really. same people doing that investigation that were part

and parcel of this. we need to have a armed service hearing on this. and this there is an investigation that needs to done by outsid inspector general. larry: senator wicker thank you. >> good to talk to you. larry: following up, politics compan trump up 35 in iowa, liz peek has a poll that says 7, i don't know. trump is leading in swing states according to pole, polls -- polls, polls are not votes, we have deroy murdock. and fox news contributor and liz peek. and a pollster, no. poll watcher. >> poll reader. larry: deroy. when roger wicker said there is a constitutional issue, you went thumbs up, a quick cook on that.

i am interested in this. >> i did a thumbs up the story gets worse and worse, just a matter of gee secretary austin did not call national security advice rear, president it not know for like two weeks he had the prostate cancer now it may be a violation of federal law. this is astonishing, there is no -- secretary were in for syphilis this would have been embarrassing there is no dishonor in having prostate cancer, you tell people. why do you cover that up, he could say, i will do the best that kirk may can, that would have been positive, he covered it up, now it is a national security problem, now it showed idea that adults in charge is a fraud, this is kindergarten on pennsylvania avenue. >> rocke roger wicker is a smart guy, they are breaking the law.

liz. play sound on nikki haley. with bret baier and martha maccallum. last night i guess. >> right now the middle class we're watching rich get richer and far t poor get poorer, eliminate gas and diesel tax and cut tax on middle class and simplify the brackets and make small business tax cuts permanent, they were temporary, and corporate tax cuts permanent. larry: i agree with the small business tax cut. i don'ththe rich get richer, what is that. >> a class warfare. you get rid of gasoline tax, federal, everyone will want to get rid of it, i have been involved in this for years, you can't fund the highway system. you just can't. i don't know what she is talking about. >> i think she is appealing to the majority of voter who

are middle class americans, and i think also nikki haley's case, she is now in headlines portrayed as recipient of healthy donor funding. i think she is fight back that image a little bit of being darling of upper class america. that is my guess. larry: she is getting -- but "wall street journal" is backing her. >> a lot of people who were backing ron desantis have shifted gears now they are backing nikki haley. interestingly, ft did a survey yesterday or published a survey, 67% of republicans think that donald trump is best trusted to run the economy to benefit them, nikki haley gets 8% and ron desantis 9%, however it happened, i would argue it -- real lived experience of living under donald trump for 4 years, americans and republicans think that he is the guy they want running the economy. that maybe that is the game. that is it. larry: you know deroy, not

only the economy, but look, i think one of the reasons that mr. trump has been so well in past year, and leading in polls, he is the guy that people think will bust the washington, d.c. swamp. and i'm talking you know, fbi, the cia, the intelligence agencies, the career civil servants who they they are nonpartisan, i don't want to beat up on nikki haley, i don't know what your tax plan is. it is confusing, to your -- trump is the guy you want to send in there who will bust the washington swamp. >> you are right, one thing that people want is someone who is tough, seriously tough, i think that is a big part, incon severab

inconceivable with lloyd austin would not have happened under trump. high would have made the call. -- he would have made the call. larry: where is biden. >> where is biden. >> not a word frommed by own this. >> silent. >> he is giving stupid ass speeches about insurrectionism. >> if you like trump or don't like trump there is no question you have a tough guy in change, a song by -- papa don't take no mess. >> when biden -- has he -- >> thank you. >> 5 days with our troops under fire he never spoke to his defense secretary, don't you find that odd. larry: i do. >> that is not right. >> disturbing. >> he was on the beach in st. croix. >> with -- >> enjoying waves and kathleen hicks. >> with fani willis and her boyfriend. >> her paramour. >> her paramour on a world tour with taxpayer money. deroy murdock and liz peek,

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larry: in a testify indictment americans think that economy stinks according to john carney of breitbart. the economic's editor. the coauthor of breitbart daily digest, welcome back, polling is very bad. >> yes, people when asked how is the economy doing or how is biden doing on the economy? give the same answer, it stinks, they really don't like it. and when they are asked, do you think it will get better next year? only a third of people say yes. that probably over estimating it, the economy is not getting better in 2024 than in 2023. everyone is expecting it to slow down. unemployment will go up, people are right. that if you don't like economy now, just wait it will get worse. larry: and are you better off than you were a year

ago, or three, that looks bad too for biden. >> it sorry bad, a very -- it is very bad, a very bad question for biden, he ran on i'm going to fix the economy saying that trump administration messed up because they didn't handle covid right, i will fix it, he didn't. he are poorer and behind. even the lately, wages have been keeping up, over any multiyear period they are behind, people realize every time they go shopping they can't afford what they used to be able to afford that a big problem for biden. larry: what is the story, all of a sudden, like last 4 months they took out 450 thousand something odd jobs there is a small business break down. i don't think that the bls models are working any more, what is that. >> 11 months of revision, we don't have december, i bet

that gets revised. so out of first 11 months in year 10 revised down that is rarely happened to get you know 10 out of 11. out of last 4 months all were revised down. and our friend, joy, pointed out we have not had this size of revisions, 242,000, i think, since 2002, the model broken down, i could covid and post-covid responding, people are not responding, businesses are not telling the government any more, i believe that is an indictment of the government, people have lost trust with the government, government said how many people work for you, a lot of small businesses say i'm not sure i trust you with that information. i think it is small businesses are having a hard time, and it, it probably a

signal that the economy is on the verge of weakness, we have been on that verge for a while. we have not tipped into it. larry: and the inflation story, still will be number one. i mean you say economy is most important issue. putting numbers on the full screen, is it inflation or overall economy? i have 30 seconds. >> sure, i think people say, it is the economy or inflation, they are the same thing right now, people saying i don't like how the economy is doing because inflation, and number one issue for most americans, also, when people are asked, is it -- when issue is very important to you, more of them say, inflation than any other. larry: interesting. >> very important for election, if you are republican nominee, you should run on the economy. larry: yep, already. >> john charge carney of breitbart, breitbart business digest, you have a cult following thank you,

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larry: that's it for kudlow, thanks for watching, folks.