charles: we've got with less than a minute to go. by the way, thank you very much for that answer. edward has one more question for you. >> yeah, mary, we saw strong retail sales for december and there's record credit card debt. when does the consumer reach a breaking point? you've got about 30 seconds. >> okay. the american consumer's actually incredibly resilient. they continue to spend -- did you see the survey limits on sentiment and optimism and confidence? they're really high. so right now american households are in good positions in their balance sheet, but it is very important to watch what's happening with delinquency rates and other things. those are early warning signs that the economy is slowing, that there's a rebalancing. it's one of the inputs i'll take into policy decisions. charles: fed if president march mary daley, thank you so much, edward, thank you as well. and, folks, there's a trillion dollars in credit card department, there's still $3 trillion out there. i pray we don't tap it.

we'll see. liz claman -- liz: oh, i was so interested in president daley's comments here. oh, this is -- as we're continuing to watch the markets fold if up even as a she said, charles -- and great interview, edward -- that any talk of rate cuts might be premature, well, look at a the markets? breaking news just as we kick off the final hour of trade, the bears are diving for cover as the bulls thunder down wall street. we are looking at records, all-time records, for both the the dow and the s&p 500. let's pulmoan intraday of the s&p 500 first. folks, we're on the vernal of an all-time record close here. all the broader index needs to see in a -- is a gain of 15 points, and right now it's up 56 points. the the index stands at the moment at 4,837. returns over the years, let's just rewind the clock here. a had you invested $10,000 in the s&p 500 back in 1970, today that would be worth $2.3 million dividends reinvested. so you are looking at just over

time a real winner here. the s&p includes approximately 80% of the total market capitalization of u.s. public companies. so you've got this basket of some of the best names. now, among the other requirements that you have to have before you're included in the s&p, companies have to have a market cap of $15.8 billion or more. so what do we have here? we've got the s&p and the next question is logically what ea's propelling it. what companies are propelling the index to never before seen heights? well, you can see with the leaders we've got about 59 minutes left to trade, it's travelers. travelers is up about 6%. but look who else is in there, broadcom. that is a record high. broadcom, paypal. m&t bank corporation and and ark md. so two chip names in there. you can see some of the same winners yesterday have not release ared their grip and, yes, i am talking about semiconductor orer names. after a rocking session yesterday, the music is still playing for the semiconductor sector.

qualcomm, broadcom and nvidia are also hitting intraday records at the moment. the dow can, let's get to that, it's also well into all-time record range. it just needs 246 points to make history? right now it's up 4 the. 412. dow leaders, you've got travelers, top of the s&p and the and stop of the dow here. but intel and ibm are big names too. again, two tech names here. this 2-day rally has a greatly benefited the nasdaq as well because it's been feud by a.i. headlines, and we've got more of them. bloomberg reporting in the haas couple of ores that openai's sam altman is looking to raise billions of dollars to build out a network of a.i. chip factories. we've got at lot of a.i. chip makers on the list, and the nasdaq is powering higher at the moment by 236 points. so an equity market rally like this usually doesn't happen on a day, let alone two days in a row, when treasury yields are

rising. but here you are. you have the 10-year adding on to ed yesterday's gain, right now at 4.15%. let me just tell you that it closed yesterday at 4.029%. okay? perspective, so important here. but let's get right to the floor show because this is one interesting trading session. we're joined by saratoga investments' ceo chris oberbeck who says the market can perform quite nicely even9 if the fed doesn't cut from here, and trader keith fitz-gerald is scooping up two names you may think are overvalued, but he says they are not. chris, i will start with you. you just heard mary daly tell fox business' edward lawrence and charles payne, don't get too excited or too overeager about a rate cut. it's premature. that said, you still believe that we're going to see this play out, a rising market nonetheless. >> well, i think the most important thing is not necessarily the rate cuts and how far they go down, but i

think most important they're probably not going up, right? inflation and rates, i think there's a lot of worry, you know, where were hay going to stop. i think it's pretty strong consensus they've stopped. how soon they come down and when they come down, you know, remains to be seen, but i think a stabilization, that's something that all these businesses can adjust to. they can adjust their pricing, their costs, things like that. but as long as the environment is relatively stable, i think that's very positive for businesses. liz: okay. stable at 5.25-5.5%, that is the fed if funds benchmark if rate at the moment. so companies can still make money, have good, solid earnings, you're saying? >> well, take out the last ten years, right? that is not a very high rate of interest -- liz: agreed. because they've been at zero. >> economies have looked9 -- worked at those levels for a very long time. again, it's an adjustment process. i think the business, they're very solid businesses. just all the things you said about growth, investment and things like that, yeah, there's a higher cost, but they can charge more and, you know, administer if value, more

productivity. liz: so, keith, chris is calm and copesetic about an operating environment for businesses amid 5.25, 5.5% rights -- rates. you are positively ec at thetic about this -- ecstatic about this market right now. which participant of it? >> the whole thing. chris is right, businesses can adjust to this, they can raise rises, influence consumer buying behavior. so this, to me, this big move up is pent if-up demand. people are realizing that a.i. in particular is for real. so regardless of what the rates are doing on a short-term basis, you know, normally when rates go up, stock markets fall because they get on the sales button, but you're getting people saying, hey, i've got to get a part of that. it's just simply a mental change, liz. liz: what part of it? if a market is a huge living, breathing thing. [laughter] it's like jabba the hut hut, takes up, like, four couches here. which part? >> i think it's more like the board. you're going to be assimilated. here's the deal, a.i. in

particular is the largest investing theme in recorded human history. to me, the chip movers are absolutely par for the course. am do and nvidia, despite the fact that they're expensive by historic standards i think are still dirt cheap based on where the market's going. i'm super happy to have identified those a long time ago on your show, most of last year with, actually, and i think that they're still the underpriced today. liz: the p if e ratios, nvidia, 77. i don't believe these are forward p if es. are these rearview here? amd, 1414? seems a little high -- >> well. liz: i'm looking at a different -- >> okay, but to pe ratios specifically, don't forget that our accounting rules are set up to reflect a manufacturing economy, not to properly accommodate digital investment. so pes are a false flag in today's digital world. they reflect an artificial reality that doesn't exist. so, again, the accounting standards the aren't what they need to be to reflect the

digitalization of our world. or at least that's my two cents. liz: uh-oh. he's talking, chris, a little bit like what we heard back in the dot.com -- >> no, no, no, that was different. that was talking socks and super bowls. liz: all right. that's fair enough. nvidia, profitable. amd, these are very strong companies, but which part of the market do you like where you can actually capture some serious yield? because a lot of the tech stocks do not pay a yield or dividend right now. >> absolutely. i mean, i think that's one of the issues, this market's rallied beautifully, everyone's really excited about it, but if you're going to have money to deploy right now, do you think the stock market can go up by 10, 15% compound from here? or do you think this is already anticipating a lot of the glories to come? and so i think our focus at saratoga investment corp. is on private credit, and we're able to get personally in loans in, you know, a secularly growing businesses in the sort of low to mid teens rate, and those are, you know, those are loans on the

books. five, six-year duration, so we have pretty good visibility as to what our earnings are going to be in that range. liz: how do you spot businesses, let's just say there are those who believe that say i don't feel totally confident about this economy, maybe three, four, five months down the line. how do you find businesses that are not highly correlated with an economy and that still manage to do well regardless? if. >> well, there's a major revolution and people talking about a.i., of course, but there's a major software revolution going on in everything. it goes from, like, we have software for blood banks, keeping track of blood, you havs a great example of software as service company. everybody is using more and more software every day in everything that they do. we have software for companies that, you know, small people that are developing, like, two or three homes. like, small develop ors. now they have a software system, accounting system that only big businesses had access to. so is a lot of these businesses,

it's productivity enhancement. you're allowing people to do more with fewer people, less time and making it more efficient. liz: keith, i want to give another daly headline, mary daly of the san francisco federal reserve also just told the edward lawrence it is important to look at any rise in delinquency rates. we're talking about credit card and loan payment delinquency rates, as an early sign of economic weakness. we haven't seen that kind of sort of, i guess, slide yet in meaningful numbers. do you think it's coming? are you concerned at all about that? >> well, i'm always concerned about that because a strapped consumer is never if good. so, you know, as much as a i disagree and constantly get all over the fed for statements they make, you know, she's spot on. i think that is important, it's the canary in the coal mine. so we want to watch that. even there there to your question to chris just a minute ago, there are pockets of places where you can invest that capitalize on the strength that people, if they're uncertain,

they can go to costco, a medical devices company any of which are binning -- beginning to kick out huge dividend, still growing for consumers who are concerned or stretched. liz: yeah. well, guess what's stretching? the bulls are stretching their necks out and getting even closer to the finish line. >> i know it. liz: folks, the nasdaq is hitting brand new session highs, up about, let's see, 239 points right now. high of the session, 248. so we're not far from it. but at this very moment if we were to close the markets and ring that bell, the dow and the s&p would be at brand new, all-time record highs. chris oberbeck with, keith fitz-gerald, thank you so much. >> thank you. liz: we got some jaw-dropping news about those 11 spot bitcoin etfs on this friday. legions of investors have poured so much money into them, they've skyrocketed to the second largest extf commodity in the -- etf commodity in the unite second only to gold. securities and exchange

commissioner hester purse, a a ka crypto mom, had ragerred to aa prove them -- argued to approve them. she's next on why she thinks the digital currency is so attractive to investors. crypto exchange coinbase, where people buy and sell bitcoin, has seen a 147% runup as the price of the crypto recovered over the past year. but over the past three week es, it's lost 30% as investors now have an ooh easier way to buy bitcoin. with each advance no matter what part of the market, there will be winners and losers, folks. sec comissioner hester pierce joins us next. the dow up 400 points. ♪ if. ♪ (man) what if my type 2 diabetes takes over? what if all i do isn't enough? or what if i can do diabetes differently?

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liz: fox market alert, look at stocks rallying here. dow is up 418 points. lots of stuff in the green. listen to this, silver just got muscled out by digital gold. finish since the launch of 11 spot bitcoin etf ifs last week, investors have poured so much money into them that bitcoin has now overtaken silver as the most popular etf commodity second only to gold. the bitcoin etf now have a combined asset value of around $30 billion while sell very etfs have $1 billion. gold's way up in the $90 billion area. this is a big deal even as bitcoin dropped from its recent high of 47,000 to the current level right now which is actually up at the moment. we've just seen a turn around for bitcoin, $4,213. but clearly, investor interest remains high. now the focus shifts to a spot

ether etf. with the may 23rd deadline for the sec to approve ark 2 21 shares' ether application fast approaching, ceo mike novogratz told the claman countdown exclusively yesterday that what's good for bitcoin should be good for ether. >> i think you can have a futur- [inaudible] right? that judge's ruling is what allowed the butt coyne etf. you've got to -- bitcoin etf. you've got to think it's going to be the same with neither -- ether. liz: why don't we ask one of the chefs in the regulatory kitchen in d.c., sec commissioner hester peirce also known as crypto mom and, of course, she voted to aa prove the spot bitcoin etf. she joins us in a fox business exclusive. commissioner, i know you speak only for yourself and not the whole sec, we understand that. but what happened what mike novogratz just said? now that the seal's been broken, what might people expect for the

timing of a spot ether etf? >> liz, it's great to be with you, and i can't speak to any if particular application but i can say that the reason aring that we used in the order approving the bitcoin exchange-traded products presumably e will carry over to other kinds of products considered against their facts and circumstances. liz: okay. so if you're looking at exactly what it would be, etherium is a blockchain. eitherrer is the token. and if -- eitherrer is the token. -- eitherrer -- either. ether. what's the value of having that option of an etf, in your opinion? >> i think having access to different kinds of assets through our regulated securities markets in a way that you can hold them in your securities portfolio alongside other, other securities that you hold and enabling you to hold them in a

tax-advantage ised way, i mean, there are a lot of -- and then getting the financial advice that might go along with this kind of a product. there are a lot of reasons why investorser might want to hold it in this manner. liz: the approval of the spot bitcoin etfs was, it feels to me, more than just give the people what they want. we all saw bruce almighty. he let everyone win the lottery, and it turned into a complete disaster. it was more than that,s wasn't it? how much did the desire of investors to be able to use bitcoin as part of their portfolio in what they perceived to be a safe way, how much did that drive the sec's approval? >> oh, i don't think that drove it at all. i think what drove it was a court decision telling us that we, that the reasoning that we had used to deny them in the past was not, would not fly. liz: okay. so what exactly mike novogratz said, it was that court decision. you know, going back to the

either -- ether spot etf, jp morgan says there's maybe less than a 50-50 chance of that because there are lawsuits swirling around the blockchain part of i here to yum. etherium. how much do you take something like that into account? >> again, i think what we really need to be taking into account are what are the standards that we've applied to these products, to similar products in the past. and if that's really the question here. and that is finely, you know, what the -- finely -- finally, you've approved a bitcoin futures product already, it doesn't make sense that you're not approving a spot product. so i think we're going to have to consider those facts and circumstances along those same lines when we look at, when we look at an e product. liz: commissioner, you don't necessarily march to the beat of the same drum as the rest of the sec commissioners, and certainly not necessarily the gary gensler, the chair. that said, how do you view

ether? do you see it as a commodity? >> well, again, i think you're putting your finger on the issue here which is that i have looked at a lot of these crypto issues extremely differently than my colleagues. i think that we've been legally imprecise when we've talked about crypto assets and talking about whether they fit into a securities framework or not. and i think we owe it to people to take a much more precise approach. and if because of that, you know, i think it doesn't make a a lot of sense for me to give you my opinion other than to say i think that we've, we really need to do a step, take a step back and rethink how we're thinking about these crypto assets in general. and i think we also just, we need to stop looking at crypto assets with the goal of using the administrative process to stop people from getting access to products. i mean, i think the what

happened last week with the approval, while i think it's a moment for celebration, it's also a moment for introspection to say did we contribute to a circus atmosphere in approving this thing in a way that was not organic, that took so many years and had so much attention on the sec? we added to the melodrama. we didn't act like a deliberative regulator should act. liz: that is an interesting point, and we say to the melodrama because the day before the official approval, the sec's twitter account was hacked. and there was a false statement put out saying, yay, it's been approved. and that, of course, gyrated the price of a lot of the cryptos. has there been any introspection and any sort of rearview mirror check on all of that? and anything to be done to make a sure that doesn't happen again? >> well, we're certainly working with the appropriate law enforcement authorities to try to get to the bottom of that, and we certainly want to avoid

anything like that in the future. liz: commissioner hester peirce over at the sec, thank you very much. please come back. >> thank you. liz: we're going to have much more on how spot bitcoin etfs are performing. in fact, today they're up. but one is quickly becoming a breakout star. charlie's going to break it and explain what's going on and how it's different. and a quick check of the dow heat map with only five -- yeah, five stocks in the red, that's it, out of thirty. the blue chip index is at a record right now, up 398 points. the losers at the moment, procter & gamble, coke, walmart, walgreens boots alliance and united health. stay tuned, we are coming right back with so much more on a rocking day for the bulls. ♪ dad, we got this. we got this. we got this.

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liz: well, we just made news with sec commissioner or hester peirce on the recent approval of a spot bitcoin etf and a possible spot ether etf. she said the sec should stop trying to prevent crypto and investors getting into crypto and stop adding to the circus atmosphere around these decisions. finish one thing for sure, with bitcoin now if overtaking silver as the second most popular etf commodity behind gold, one of the 11etfs that launched last week to let people invest in spot bitcoin is outperforming the rest, and charlie gasparino is here to explain which one and why.

>> if well, of course it's blackrock. but we should get back to what she said and unpack what she said. i think if you're reading between the lines, hester peirce is basically saying as of now the decision on an ether etf, spot etf, goes 3-2 against. that's what i believe she said -- liz: i didn't hear that, but you do. tell me more. >> i think anybody that follows crypto and knows the sec like i do would say that because to get out of the way means they're in the way. and gary gensler has always had an animus towards ether. he's always said bitcoin is a crypto, is a currency, and it's outside his realm of direct enforcement because it's a currency. he's never said that ether is outside the realm, the other major crypto is outside that sec jurisdiction. as a matter of fact, he says, you know, it might be in the jurisdiction, that they violated the law by issuing, doing an ico

that, you know, that went back that was centralized, thus, you know, basically meaning how we test for a security, thus the issued illegally. that's kind of what she's saying. and it gets us back to blackrock. now, blackrock is portfolioing better than all the ores not because it's anything different. they're all the same -- liz: they have different fee structures. >> that's different. back rock is not the cheapest, by the way. liz: knost not the most expensive. >> you have the ask why isn't the cheapest doing well. blackrock is doing well because larry fink has created a pretty amazing firm. remember, blackrock's core products, those etfs. liz: i job shares. >> the they're sold through brokers. ishares. blackrock has tremendous connections with every major brokerage firm. so as bitcoin becomes part of the asset mix, you know, 80-20 or 80-10, i don't know, it becomes part of your breakdown, you know, stocks, bonds,

commodities. comes into that commodity sort of pool. you'll see brokers pushing it. and he's got the best connections with brokers. remember, merrill lynch was once, you know, one of the biggest brokerage firms, now part of bank of america, once had a joint venture with blackrock. we should also point out there's been a lot of talk about not just about the eth spot etf, but also an xrp everything tp, and people thought back rock was going to do that. based on the sort of noncommittal answer larry gave us on the show a couple weeks -- last friday, i believe it was, my sources are telling me, no, they are not preparing an xrp etf. and one reason why is because the status of xrp is even more murky in terms of whether it's a security or not than eth. and if one of the reasons why it is is because there's sort of an insane ruling by the southern district judge ann lease torres

who basically said some of the sales of, and rp were security, some of it were not and, thus, this thing's getting a appealed, and it's a huge question mark. so they're not even going there, okay? and that's where we get back to eth. it's not -- i think as of now, i mean, things could change. larry is very per per sways isive. remember, very plugged in in washington both on republicans, both on democrats and republicans. my guess is that he helped push the bitcoin thing through. whether he can do it with eth based on what she said is a, it sounds like an uphill battle. liz: i want to know when we're going to have a dogecoin etf. >> well, that's the whole thing. [laughter] you know, i give gensler a hard time, but he does have legitimate concerns about this. i mean, at what point to we say, okay, there's all these things out there. bitcoin does have an underlying technology, the blockchain technology. i've never used it -- liz: a last -- they've allowed

etfs guessing the weather. >> no, they haven't. liz: yes, they -- >> is it a commodities thing? liz: it doesn't survive is, but finish. >> yeah, of course. i don't know who did that, who allowed that. i'm just telling you that, you know, give gensler a little bit of wiggle room on here. by essentially saying, you know, whoa, where are we going with this on stuff that, you know, do you know what a bitcoin is -- do you know how you create a bitcoin? i actually told this to larry. you to all these computer programs and out pops a bitcoin. that's how you create more of it. now, i know you could say you could create dollars out of thin air, but thiess there's taxing, the full faith and credit of the u.s. government. what's the full faith and credit of the bitcoin blockchain? liz: well, again, we'll be following it. >> i don't know. liz: hester saying or, you know, she really was one of the yes votes for a long time. >> yeah, i know. but what she just told you is that she's a yes vote on eth,

but she also told you that it's an uphill battle. liz: charlie, thank you very much. fox business alert, investors are staying away from the mess of irobot after "the wall street journal" reported that the european union's antitrust board is planning to block amazon's buyout of the roomba vacuum maker. roomba maker irobot down 24% right now. amazon had until january 10th to address regulators' concerns that the deal would reduce competition, but so far they haven't put forth any proposals. the deal was first to proposed in all of 2022, and since then shares of the robot manufacturer have dropped more than 66%. amazon today at least is up 1. 33%. we told you at the top of the show that travelers insurance was traveling to a record high. right at the top of the dow jones industrials and the s&p. well, after reporting fourth quarter profits that were well above expectations, you can see that the stock is up 6.33% just

off session highs here. the insurance company attributed the beat to lower catastrophe if losses and higher underwriting gains. the company's next income -- net if income, rather, nearly doubled year-over-year. and wayfair shares, let's see if they are where they went this morning. they're just slightly below the highs here but up 10% still. wayfair says it's going to cut 1,650 workers in an attempt to trim costs. that number represents 13% of its global work force leading to more than 280 million in annualized cost savings. the ceo said that in a memo that the company, quote, went overboard in hiring when results were up. finish -- and now just like a lot of the tech companies last year and the year before, they are slimming down one again. well, not since the song kissed by a rose by seal was number one in 1995 have home sales been this hoe.

low. we'll ask century 21's ceo if housing has hit rock bottom or if the 1990s are the new norm for would-be home buyers. and the founder of one of the largest music schools in the east coast only had his e parents' attic to call home when he first tried to get his business off the ground. ben ayman of ben hyman music was playing by the tar for a couple of bucks a gig. he had no college degree, no formal music training. how did he end up building his huge school and cofounding the recording studio that the producers of the new hit mean girls movie chose the record their songs? the brand new episode of my everyone talks to liz podcast crops tomorrow -- drops tomorrow. hear how ben turned his musical dreams into a remarkable career that's now grabbed hollywood's eyes and ears. hear it on apple, google, spotify, iheart radio. we're talking about the state of

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(♪) (♪) (♪) liz: i got a question, which picture of the housing market is the real one? after getting stronger than expected housing starts and building permits data yesterday, looked really good, today the release of december existing home sales showed they fell for the sixth out of seven months, down 1%. the drop for all of 2023? 19% to a seasonally-adjusted annual rate of 4.09 million homes. that's the lowest since 1995 and, yes, seal's song kiss from a rose was number one. but are home sales about to turn tail? since hitting the 1-year peak of 7.8% on october 26th. the most recent print of the

30-year fixed rate mortgage for the week ending yesterday has now fallen to 6.6%. is that enough to lure more buyers to the market? joining us now in a fox business exclusive, century 21 ceo mike immediateler. that's a big supplied, from 7.8% to 6.if 6, but how are would-be viewers -- buyers viewing the current 6.6% rates? is that still too high? kind of feels like it might be. >> great question, liz. thanks for having me. i think, certainly, 6.6 is a lot better than what we saw literally just at the beginning of the fourth quarter like you said, up in the 7.5% range. what focus don't recognize is that every will little basis point move if really shocks the consumer. but i think there's so much pent-up demand that's out there on the sidelines right now that folks are still very, very active especially buyers. as you said, it was a tough year for them in 2023, and you look at the main drivers around that, the lowest amount of units that we've sold literally in 30 plus

years and, honestly, that has a lot to do with things that we all a saw coming. one is inventory, which we all know has been a problem and continues to be a problem here across the united states. and then, certainly, the affordability front which you talked about which is, you know, mortgage rate-driven and, obviously, prices of homes. so supply and demand if has got us in a tough spot for home buyers, but we are seeing some green shoots which i'm excited by for 2024. liz: well, here's one of them, i mean, the building permits number yesterday grew about 1.9% month over month. so clearly, you've got the home builders breaking ground, asking to break ground with the permits. so that may shake things up. what's the lead e time for something like that? >> i think that's a great question, and i think part of the problem is and we have seen new constructed homes rising certainly late into last year, 2023, up 5%. i know that builder confidence -- according to the national association of home builders -- is up. i was just literally in this week in tri-cities --

[inaudible] so most of the apples and potatoes we eat in this country come from that neck of the woods. their marketplace is about 20-25% new construction which, as you can imagine, is a lot compared to where we're at here in the northeast. that said, literally projects that would take 18 months pre-covid are taking them somewhere between 3-4 years for so many different reasons, right? if i think there's a lot of costs around, obviously, the regulation to get homes built in marketplaces and just as we've seen with supply chain and the cost of things in general related to inflation slows things down. i'd also say this, that the worker shortage in that industry is a tough one. i think there's somewhere between 400 million -- or, i'm sorry, 400,000 to 425,000 jobs short in that industry, and we need to get more folks out there looking at a great way to earn a living. liz: so we know that the 10-year treasury yield tracks the -- well, the 30-year fixed, i guess, would track the 10-year

treasury most closely. can you still see and have you in the past in all of your years in this industry ever seen mortgage rates continue to fall even if the 10-year yield, and and i'm talking about what i really mean and that is even if the fed decides, you know what? we're just going to leave rates where they are, and we're not going to cut at the moment. can mortgage rates still continue to fall in that atmosphere? >> yeah, you know, rook, i'm noe exactly where mortgage rates will head. i think there are good signs, like you said, from an inflation perspective, certainly where jobs are at and the fact that that they've leveled a off and have come down a little bit is certainly good for the housing market and certainly good for buyers. because of that, we are actually seeing more listings come on to the market, we're seeing more pending sales. but i think, like i said, for the normal, everyday consumer, that shock to the system that we saw from may 2022 to literally may 2023 where mortgage rates went up the fasters they ever have in the history of keeping

track of them literally shocks your buyers. it adds thousands and thousands of dollars on to, you know, the purchase price and certainly the monthly cost. but i do think we're in a spot right now where if you listen to the, you know, the experts, the fannie's, the freddies, the mb, they all think we're going to be in that 6-6.5% range, and i think just a little bit of consistency will be good for consumers. liz: well, yeah. it's nice to know if there's at least a little bit of runway you can see down the road. mike, good to see you. thank you very much. century 2 is ceo. president joe biden is about to meet any moment now with more than 300 american mayors who are in the nation's capital for the annual u.s. conference of maw yours, and they have a -- mayors, and they have a laundry list of issues and grievances to discuss with the president. we're going to take you straight to the white house for details on the issue that may be at the very top of the list. and look at the markets

here. the s&p inching closer to a new record high, and here's what's getting it there. the broader index, led by travelers, amd hitting a brand new record, paypal, up 6%. broadcom also at a fresh record. and key corp., up 5.8%. "the claman countdown" is coming right back. 12 minutes to go before we hear that closing bell ring. ♪ if. ♪ ♪ you can't buy great conversations or moments that matter, but you can invest in them. at t. rowe price our strategic investing approach can help you build the future you imagine. t. rowe price, invest with confidence. - i got the cabin for three days. it's gonna be sweet! what? i'm 12 hours short.

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liz: president joe biden hosting more than 300 mayors from atlanta, miami, n new orleans baltimore and more gathering in the east room of u.s. conference of mayor's east meeting. edward lawrence is at the white house. i think i know what some of the biggest things are, but what are you hearing? reporter: about ten minutes late, liz, but the mayors want to see more money and more to handle migrant rye i cans and crime issues in the cities as well as other projects. now, former mayor and transportation secretary pete buttigieg says the bipartisan

infrastructure bill does some of that. every state and region of the country, red, blue and purple has seen historic federal investments announced in roads and bridges, ports and airports, trains and transit often the largest community investments they've seen in a lifetime. reporter: san francisco fed president mary daily, she's a voting member and made critical news. listen to this. >> first thing is we don't have inflation back down to 2% and everybody knows that and thanksgiving not price stability and we're fully committed to restoring price ability and doing it as gently as we can and we have a lot of work left to do. we're not there yet and far too early to declare victory. while it's appropriate to look forward and ask when policy adjustments would be necessary so we don't put a strangle hold

on the economy, weaned more evidence that it's heading down consistently and suspended ands stainable and for me to adjust the policy rate. right now we have a labor market that's slowing or signs of slowing, but it's not faltering in any way. do i get consist evidence inflation is coming down or any early signs the labor market is faltering? neither one of those right now is pushing me to think that an adjustment is necessary. reporter: the consumer is very strong she says but looking at delinquencies, liz. delinquencies is the baseline as those rise, that's where the weakness starts. back to you. liz: in response to the news making interview you did with mary daly, i have to tell you pretty significant drop in the bets the market is making as to whether we'd see a cut in march and fed funds futures and 47%

odds we'd see a cut in march. that was 80% last week, edward. i think that anybody that says listen only to jay powell, you've got to listen to his people too because they're parroting some of what he thinks. reporter: inflation and core inflation she was clued in on and moving sideways and unless you see that come down, which we're not, they could talk about rate cuts but now the point is they don't want to talk about rate cuts. okay, great question. dow and s&p 500 both on the edge of hitting brand new all time highs at closing bell and they're there right now and will they those there, that's the question. looks like they're going to and dow up 376 points and s and p up 57 points and that's going to do it by a long shot. for the week, major averages all set to close higher and second straight week in a row of upward

moves. so when you bring in the whole discussion about interest rates, one big change and cds that banks are offering they finally got up to 5%. is now the time to lock in higher interest rates and is that time running out. market watch has a headline in a piece today saying yes, time is running out. even so, people are afraid to commit to cds. bring in frank about that and what do you make of that headline. 5% in a cd looks awfully tasty if you can lock it in. same with treasuries that are shorter term and balance could i do better in the stock market. >> goes to your risk appetite and the cash is great on the way up and you can roll into higher

and higher yields when rates starlet coming down and we can debate when it's going to happen but it is going to happen and cash is a hot potato and act to move out and moving into cds or longer cds or corporate bonds of 5, 7, 10 years and able to lock in the return not only nor the next couple months like a three month will do but years and decades. liz: and the amount of interest that institutions and banks are paying out to investor who is did put their money recently into cds and money markets and credit.com paid $20 billion in 2021 and rate haves gone way up. he'd not be surprised if close to 200 billion and banks are

paying savers 6789 if people are still interested, where should they put their money for equity bump? >> so we like as kind of i alluded to, corporate bonds give you a decent return. if you go on investment grade space, look at 5% ret returns bt double bs and not triple cs, you can get six and a half, index of double bs, 6.5% and getting into equity-like return for a lot less risk than you'd take, which, and lower volatility than you'd get with equities. liz: wow, frank, you and i get to witness a brand new record close for both the dow and s&p