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tv   Kudlow  FOX Business  January 23, 2024 5:00am-6:00am EST

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areer. the sunshine skyway bridge was the longest concrete cable stayed bridge in the world. it just resulted in having some iconographic power, the grandeur of the structure, the setting that it provides as a backdrop to the city was something that i was very proud of. you have open views of this extraordinary landscape. an icon for florida and other bridges that would follow the annual skyway ten runs over the sunshine skyway bridge to benefit the armed forces family foundation. the top of the bridge has seen its fair share of sweat. selfish and even a few proposals. larry: hello, folks. welcome to kudlow, i'm l arry kudlow. less than a day until the
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new hampshire primary. looks like it is all over but the shouting, in new hampshire donald trump putting together a unified republican party and sticking to his iowa theme, he can unify the country with successful policies on the economy, order, culture, foreign affairs. breaking news, a unity rally tonight with tim scott, vivek ramaswamy, governor doug with president trump at 9 p.m., we'll have a live report from there. and then senator marsha blackburn will react to that. but first, i want to get something off my chest, talk about a bad idea. something called a fiscal commission coming out of washington, d.c. for some reasons, republicans like texas congressman jody a jodey arrington been pushing to get this through.
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terrible, it is a tax trap. we have the do goofy commissions through the year, paul ryan shared one that would have raised taxes and damage the economy and simpson bowles and way back, george h.w. bush agreed to a tax hike. and projected that tax hikes would yield 159 billion of new revenue then, but they lost 206 billion from economic damage inflicted by the higher taxes. so the net loss 47 billion. didn't help the deficit. bill clinton raised taxes in 1993. cbo estimate later showed weaker economy lost virtually all of the projected revenue increase. and barack obama, he raised
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tack taxes in 2010 and 2013 then there was a 4 trillion revenue cost because of the economy. did not help th the sit, clinton cut taxes reformed welfare and deficit disappeared for 4 years with a massive growth gain of 4.5 perspi% year. best way to avert a crises is to reform indictments -- e entitlements the next best way is growth, the problem is they raise taxes at the very first meeting before the quir first cup of coffee was poured.
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whether it was jfk in 60s, reagan in 80s, clinton in his 6 term or donald trump, lower taxes have always been a successful policy to boost economic growth. more growth with more people working. with higher wages, that generate morse tax revenues to reduce deficits probably by factor of 2 to 3 to 1, that is the historical evidence. so, republicans now, show not be lulled to falling for another stony fiscal commission, governor trump a strong republican senate and house so the fiscal committees can do their job. and any moves to strengthen social security, should focus on market based investment choice. just like the federal thrift savings plan, social security participants should have the option of purchasing approved stock or bond indexes, that over the
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long run would yield higher returns and create more wealth than the current system. which invests only in t-bills. and just like private retirement accountings social security to create more wealth for more peoples over the long run, cutting benefiters on raising tacks from another fiscal commission would be nothing more than fiscal insanity. americans for tax reform grover norquist will be here later in the show with his perspective on why this is terrible idea. enough said, enough, to madison alworth who is live in manchester, new hampshire with details, of donald trump's big unity rally, madison, what can you tell us. reporter: larry, y >> hey larry, with ron desantis out, we have a two-person race one day away from the hampshire
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primary. president trump has a commanding lead ovestr his opponent nikkigi haley, the latest polls showing him 19 points better than the governor. as you mentioned he will b hosting a rally tonight. president trump will be in newew hampshire and some of his formej opponents are going to be joining him in an attempt to show how the party is unitingin behind theg former president. senator tim scott, doug burgum and vivek ramaswamy will be atin the laconia rally this evening at 9:00 p.m., they will ber joining them on stage the latest endorser of president trump, ron desantis will not be in attendance. trump's main opponent nikki haley has been very upha under busy she has three events at tumor on the schedule, trump is a big lead. when it comes to undeclared voters, that the biggest votinge block in new hampshire, haley has a ten-point lead their. both candidates only have a few more hours to go before voting starts here in new hampshire. the first polls open up at
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midnight but the rallies thaton trump has been hosting leading up to the primary, they about big and attendance has been a strong and with allll the candidates on stage were hearing strong attendance as well. larry: great stuff, wen alappreciate it. let's turn to tennessee senator marshaa blackburn. welcome senator blackburn, it's fabulous to see you.abou i want to play some sound about the unity business, here is tim scott and an interview with breitbart, take a listen. r >> the race isac already over, l figuratively speaking there dead people walking. t it is time for this republican party to focus only on one person and that is eliminatingby joe biden by electing donald trump. larry: senator, de blackburn, dd people walking according to tim interestingan phrase i'm sure he meditate
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metaphorically. does it look like basically this is all over? >> it is so important that we unite behind president donaldma trump you anked make certain tht he wins. i'm truly delighted to see soin many of those that havste runst against him. coming and standing shoulder to shoulder with him and yes indeed it is time for us to move to the general election phase of this. any dollar that we spent on primary opposition where there is no path for anyone else to get the republican nomination,y no path. any dollar that is spent is a dollar that can't be spent. it's time that can't be spent talking about why we shouldnt t elect president donald trump ano why we need to defeat joe biden that the democrats, that time
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has come, it's time for us to unite behind president donald trump. it's time for ustaki to focus on taking the u.s. senate and keeping the u.s. house in making certain that we do well and stay election for governors and state and house. it's time for the republican party tong run strong and focusn the general election, focus on the message and focus on electing president donald trump. larry: a lot of folks myselfha included like the unity message that came out of the iowa caucus victory night.enin not only for the republican party which appears to be happening but also a general election theme, unifying iraqi policies, taxes, the economy, inflation, the border, the culture, former president trump
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said success would be a greatur unifier and i think that's a tn important theme i want to get your take is a relatively young theme for president trump i think is onto something.ve >> ideal and i think the speech he gave in iowa was very gracious.th he hit the right tone for what the american people are wanting to hear they are troubled byrder what they see at the border they know since the first of this fiscal year we are at 80 known terrorist watch list names that of come tocr the border, they a bothered by crime in thehu citis and drugs in their communities in the humannd trafficking in te sex trafficking that they see taking place.er they know gangs and communities were communities have never hadh gangs they know inflation is oue of control, the price of foodhe the price of the pump the priceh to heat and coolis your homes,in
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this is all the inflation. look at where it is. they know the white house is fibbing when they say inflation is down and it's only 3% but they know better than that. focusing on the areas where president trump was so successful. when you look at p the polling engine look at independent voters and female voters their coming back to president trump, why is that.emem it's because they remember very well how they were so muchen better off under president donald trump and they know bided and bidenomics has not served them well. larry: on the point about immigration talking aboutee immigration crisis, finally three years later even joe biden acknowledges we have a problem at the southern border, the bill coming out of the senate looks like a very poor bill and even
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critical in some of your colleagues have been critical in the senate.rk erfor example worker permits, green cards to illegals h1b children can become citizens, this does not sound like something is going to close the border. >> what we need to do is sayose there is a way to close the border it's called enforce the law, how about that. of course build the barrier tha border patrol has been asking for for the past 30 years they said we need a barrier and we need better technology where we can have a barrier. we need more officers and agents and we need to deal with asylum provision and parole but you have to stop the influx. there were 302,000 people that t came to the border in decemberm,
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they raise their hands and said the word asylum.this now they have been waived into the country, this has to stop-- and have legislation that would allow the state to protect the border is called the container act. we also know what the emergentct people are saying, we do not want to see anything done that would make illegal entry legal. anytime you want to make illegal immigration legal what you are doing is emboldening the cartels and right now nobody comes to the border without paying the cartel. we need to securhee the border d we need to be resolutely not ann we need to stop saying thisth administration needsis to stopla this business immigration legalt larry: what caught my eye was all of this business. immediate work permits to
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illegals released in custody. that could be a million people. that doesn't make any sense at all. last one yeaizedr criticized the white house electric or trying to move money from veterans to the border why would anybody want to do that, what is the point about hurting the veterans order to help the border which the border stuff is mostlyclos facilitation money is not close the border money. >> what we've been very concerned about is what we found out the va was doing, spending millions of dollars on referrals to community care for illegal immigrants in the claims processing for illegal immigrants, we have a case backlog at the va right now today of 1 million u.s. veterans who cannot get healthcare theyth cannot get their benefits they
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are in the queue waiting in the va spending time and money on processing and access to healthcare for illegal immigrants. i want you to think about this. they're putting them in front oh our veterans, this is what i'm saying about this a administration. they're doing everything thatfi theynd can jumping through hoops trying to find ways to make illegal immigration legal. p this is another reason we need president donald trump back in the white house because he secured the border and during his time with the lebanonr, terrorists that came to the southern border and now we have 80. this shows you 80 since the first of the fiscal year this o shows you people think thepeid border is open and joe biden. said you well, will take care of you and the american taxpayer is sick of it.
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i will tell you something else. i talked to a lot of moms arouna this country and i say the security moms are back. job security national security, border security, economic security. it is top of mind for them. larry: terrific stuff senator blackburn. as always we appreciate it. g coming uotp on "kudlow". is there really a biden boom as some of the mainstream media are suggesting. polls don't show it, real wages keep falling. we'll talk about it with steve moore and e.j. antoni. you can catch "kudlow" monday through friday 4:00 p.m. on foxr business. if you can't catch ue s up for,c attexture favorite 9-year-old ad she will show you how to dvr the show and you will never miss a unity ticket ever. i promise. we'll be right back. ♪
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larry: all right, new investigation from government accountability over larry: a new investigation from the governmentof accountability office shows the u.s. department of agriculture has lost track of china's attempts to buy american farmland, they're buying it up leftmpts and right, grady trimbe
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live in washington, d.c. grady wishes he has it but the chinese have instead. >> i visited the farmland in iowa. it's certainly a concern after you read through this report.om it raises more worry aboutpa cha linked companies buying up our farmland here in the u.s. i want to show you the map from that apartment of agriculture, the areas that you see in orange, those states have relatively high foreign ownership of farmland 2.4% or more, the gao report review data through 2021, is calling into question all of the usda's datan the report finds the ad department doesn't share timely data and its process to collect track and report key information are flawed. here's one example of an heir, the gao says that usda countedge the largest holding associated with the public's opinion of china not once but twice.st overstating hoatw much land chia
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linked companies my own. but raising concerns about how the keeping track of dat.ona altogether. republican congressman dan neuhaus says thi cs report confirms one of our worst fears that not only is the usda unable to answer the question of who owns what land and where but there is no plan by the department to internally reverse this dangerous flaw that effexor supply chain and economy. some democrats are sounding the, alarm as t well. >> they're taking back our pandas, we should take back all of their farmland. this is a national security issue and it is a food security issue. >> senator fetterman referencing the pandas in d.c. which chinaat took back last year sort of ingest but there is a bipartisan group of lawmakers who think that china owning our land is not only a food security problem but a national security problem
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especially when it is closedespe were military bases. larry: absolutely, 100%. we appreciate it. especially our newest conservative convert. let's talk about the economy. is there really a biden boom? stocks are up, inflation is down, very interesting. on the other hand, real wages still seem to be falling. we have steve moore, the committee to unleash prosperity hotline and hostt of of more moy in wac radio e.j. antoni at the heritage foundation. welcome. for the index of leading indicators fell for the 21st straight month i want to put that in there. the conference for itself ision, predicting a recession this yeah for the second third quarter that is what they are saying. lower inflation, higher stock prices bettereamr consumer i sentiment, thes mainstream med?
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saying a biden boom, what do you make of that? >> biden boom or bust more like it, prodded the problem when we look at the aggregate numbers ti tidy the reality that the t average american in the typical american is facing right now. there are still a lot of americans who have high incomes and high net wealth who haveut left over savings from the pandemic and they continue to spend. what about everybody else. for most americans they've exhausted theiic-er pandemic sad and the bottom fifth havee exhausted all savings. and they are going deeply into debt. and if you look at gdp, both consumer spending and governmenb spending are being sustained by debt. larry: i don't like the debt argument that much. steve moore is a complete debt abscess or. a debt as american as apple pie, real wages falling or not.ot we have your chart from theh hotlinlee publishes morning whih
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i think will put on the full screen. i shows inflation is still outpacing nominal wages. >> is a redline so it is ach negative. larry: that the achilles' heel. >> you told me when you work fol reagan you talked about real take-home pay, real take-home pay, that shows you real take-home pay for most workers, it's not as downow as much as it was a year ago but it is still down, yet the 18% increase in prices when wages are up 15%. larry: is this a slump in real wages, is this for everybody or the middle quintile or the lower quintile. >> these are median.e. larry: a typical average family not just the bottom quintile. not that that is bad. >> this is the thing here in new york or wall street or
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washington, d.c. there is a bit of a bubble they're not relatin to people on mainstream america is struggling financially and that's what those numbers show that's why despite the improveda economy two out of threeyi voter saying i'm p in worse shape now. that i was financially when trop was president. larry: that is a key point, all the good news, stock market is up, no question, interest rates are down, inflation is downt although the level of prices iys to outstripping wages but you do not see it in the polling data at least you don't see it yetfo that should be a cautionary tale for mr. biden and i think it hai a lot to do with the lack of confidence in joe biden. >> the numbers, his numbers are worse than the academy. the economy is better, people e ist have confidence that h a leader in people do see the problem in the academy and they say this is not sustainable.
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i even play into what's going on with the foreign policy and what's happening with the border all of these things make americans feel like the countries not headed in the right direction. larry: we have the jamie dimon ceo of j.p. morgan, i'm going tn read it. this caused everybody get gobbles to completely impose a hydrogen bomb, here's mr. diamond head of the biggest bank in the world, take a stepan back, be honest. he, meaning trump, he was kinda right about nato and kind of right on immigration. he grew the economy quite well, trade and tax reform worked andh he was right about somate of china. that is jamie dimon. that caused a dab novel doll t e meltdown. he puts his foot down he's a>> a smart guy and i think it's beeno
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fair. >> i think at the end of the dae it comes out your pocketbook that doesn't matter if you're thavere average american or if r financial titan. at the end oit if the day it is, about "the bottom line". i think what people like jamie dimon are realizing biden is not good for business, they see the tax increases in the regulation coming dowt lon the pike and thn not looking forward to any of it. larry: froglobm davos, a global carbon tax, how are you on that? 30 seconds. >> a horrible idea progressive tax will her everybody. it was a bad weecialk at davos m a globalist, socialist and fora the redistributionist. people are sick off it it. not only was at a great statement by jamie dimon but let's not forget about the argentine president who said socialism is the problem and you people are not attuned to that. larry: trump prompt in iowa.es
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there were people in davos youtr can see killing themselves on the street. >> right now they're talking about issues, he's talking about taxes, the border, talking aboun wages.e fa , i don't want to talk about the election anymore. i am pro panda i want those pandas back. >> steve moore, e.j. antoni, thank you very much. coming up on "kudlow", stop the phony physical commission. tha stop at all cost, republican should not be loouw untit l invd into this. we have grover norquist of americans for tax reform to ta k about it. donald trump says success is a unifier. not only for the gop but thery entire country. we have hogan gidley and caroline downey to weigh in o "kudlow". success is the besest revenge.r. ♪ like your workplace benefits and retirement savings. voya helps you choose the right amounts
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larry: all right, fani
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willis fiasco continues down larry: the fani willis fiasco continues down in georgia. fox news correspondent steve harrigan live in marietta georgia with new gory details.wl what you got? >> people are pouring through the documents of the divorce case that nathan wade hired by the da paid more than $650,000. they're looking for more of whar was found last friday when ae lawyer for the estranged wife of nathan wade release bank records that showed wade had bought plane tickets for himself and his boss the da to travel to miami and traveled to san francisco to go on a caribbean cruise and toronto hotel in nape valley california. already some legal observers are saying it might be time for the da to step aside. >> i think the case hasn't gone off ththe rails already. i don't see anything good coming in charge of the case at this
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point, a lot good can happen if she steps away, this is obviously huge distraction. the judge set a hearing for february 15 and look at whether there is an improperth relationship between the da andd the prosecutor and whether oran not they misspent public moneyd on themselves. president trump attacking both of them as lovebirds who werelv trying to enrich themselves bye: prosecuting him. back a to you.rds. larry: steve harrigan we appreciate it veryto much, lovebirds will get to that moment. meanwhile let's talk about the dreaded physical commission coming out of washington tack, . let's talk to grover norquist, taxident of americans for reform. why do republicans fall for thil kind of nonsense time and time t again? here they go again. >> they have not yet.th the problem is spending, the
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problem is spending, the problem is spending and we have a senator from utah, mitt romney coming out with the commission which will recommend tax increases and go around ways and means committee on the house which republicans control andd chairman smith would never allow a tax increase. he made the commitment to nevr raise taxes and yet there is a commission that they were put forward which does two things. it says forget about the trillions the democrats but the promises inflation, that's notkb what we want to talk about, let's talk about tax increases,t talk about trying to stop president trump in the back, toh damage the republican majority in the house inputted at risk. a republican party of romney is allowed to put forward in front of congress and say let's talk tax increases it he testified on the house side for his bill, tax increases on the table, everything is on the table.
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you want 100% death tax in thess corporate income tax about china, no tax increases that romney tax increase in proposal. larry: i think we have some sound, mitt romney soundbite. take a listen. you can about this. >> revenues as well as spending at the other ideas there is an arbitrage idea that's been put forward by a couple of senators. basically all ideas are open.w, >> including revenue. larry: i go for higher revenues if you lower tax rates and growi the economy at 4%.s that is my kind of revenues.o. i don't think that's what senator romney was talking about. t> no, they are talking abou tax increases. thisp ta will destroy the trumpx cuts. it will pucontt an end to contig the trump tax cuts becausewh that's on the table then they will go back and what is thatug the democrats want thto take awy
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the trump tax cuts the broadest economic growth that is what will be on the cutting board.we we need economic growth. we don't mean higher taxes and we need spending restraint, the modern democratic party in powei for the last three years has been spending like crazy. they want to take that off the table during the debate during the campaign and trick some republican to say something about a tax increase and romney's volunteered already. they will say that the and republican parent tax increase on social security, tax increase on your income. spending is a problem. larry: grover norquist, thank you ever slarro much. we appreciate it. let's bring in a different subject but related. we have hogan gidley formerai deputy press secretary. f he is viceor chair of the ameria first policy institute and center for election integrity and caroline gaudi reported for the national review.n
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just a quickie, jason smith is coming on it a minute head of the ways in house means g committee read i assume he wille oppose this. why would republicans want to go sor a goofball deal thatsi raise taxes, undercuts our own presidential candidate, what is u are of them. >> if you're asking me to explain the political calculus and that romney, this is good bi a weird segment that's veryti difficult. >> there will never beme enough time. just drop th>> ge whole thing. you're opposed to the physical larrcommission. >> of course. >> caroline, serious matter, president trump terrific brilliant iowa caucus victory speech and he's continuing that new hampshire, very gracious open arms when governor desantis came around and senator tim scott came around. i think the idea of unity and unity based on success for the
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general election is a very powerful theme. h people are not giving themim credit for it naturally. but i want to get your take on it. >> i think it's a refreshing change froircrthism his rather f retribution against as political allies. in his call for unitree y in ios an appeal to moderate voters in new hampshire which leans libertarian, fiscally hawkish not maga and not culture warrior, lovest governor sununy but beyond being a primary strategy like you said it's ae good national strategy to leango into the big picture to go onst raoffense against biden administration and honestly to speak optimism about the gop. larry: you know it's interesting, joe biden who came in as a unifier has been one of the meanest most divisive racial oriented, everything, maga, lying, untruth, et cetera. i think what caroline just said is interesting. you might even see results of
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trump's graciousness and hiss unity theme in tomorrow'swh election. i have a feeling theat independence or whatever the quality new hampshire i think a lot will go for trump because they know the rest of thee packages right on the issues in new hampshire after all is a low tax state., li >> i think so and i hope so, everyone understands that. here's wha it i would've want tn caution everyone on. i think trump's message of unity is very important and significant moving forward. you see folks who were with the santas coming on board with trump nec desantis, not endorsing. here's what i want to be focusey on and worry about that's theru nevempr trumper's you brought up mitt romney, we were told the huckabee, blue-collar conservatives. we lost is mccain or romney hold your nose and put in the workan our policies and our way of life in the america first issues are better in our hands than they are in the democrats.
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the never trumper's are looking at donald trump and sayingexcu that's a step too far. clean it up to heck with you. we did that for cycle after cycle with your establishment and the elitist pics and now you have someone that wants to push forward those policies and improve the lives of all americans regardless of race, religion, colo r or creed get on board because what biden is doing to the country is destroying it. larry: they sort of never do. i lived with this for 40 years. the first time i worked for ronald reagan a long time ago in the budget office. the same crime, trump is the person who will stop the washington swamp.iv he will drain the swamp or he'll give is best shot and he knows. more now that he knew four years ago. he is learned fromies his victs and he learned from his defeat. i don't think the romney's ofa the world, by the way mitt romney is a friend of mine evena though we are political
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disagreements, you know what, s what. it's like trump needs to ghton thstraight ahead here's my position on the issues, american first, low taxes, regulation, culture to. he's never going to win them over. he just walked, it is life. his life in the fast lane. meanwhile hispanics improving, efrican-americans, possibl improvement thereto. he could widen the base without kowtowing to the old state republican establishment. larry: that's an interesting project think you're right the growinmi cg minority coalition r the other groups is picking up by promising prosperity for all that appealing message tappeo at of immigrants. now citizens. they can become his supporters while the old wing thelout mitt romney wing fall out of fashion, 1980s gop is not competitiveli in today'sti political climate i i know you said you live during the regular administration but i
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think the overton window keepswu shifting on how much rot is infecting washington, trump dids recognize there was a deep state but i hope this time around ifcc he gets elected, he actually cracks the deep state. his business acumen is probably the most powerful thing a politician can bring. m larry:os by the way he is the bt a shader. b agaiesn, he is a fabulous negotiator. >> we saw it. hogan gidley and caroline downey. jason smith coming up. he iits cutting taxes.l be that is my kind of guy, much better than physical commission, tax cuts business tax cuts, investment back onto tax cuts real wage increase. i love it. i'm "kudlow". back.be right manager) you can't be that different. (fisher investments) we are. we have a team of specialists not only in investing, but also also in financial and estate planning and more. (other money manager) your clients rely on you for all that?
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(fisher investments) yes. and as a fiduciary, we always put their interests first. (other money manager) but you still sell commission -based products, right? (fisher investments) no. we have a simple management fee structured so we do better when our clients do better. (other money manager) huh, we're more different than i thought! (fisher investments) at fisher investments, we're clearly different.
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larry: all right, m missouri congressman, cutting taxes. by huge marginses, he is right here, jason smith. mr. chairman, i will call you that. first, you have a great bill. talk briefly about it because immediate full expensing supply side ires us ciders used to believe is pro growth, pro wage
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increases. >> there are 3 purpose provisions that expired or phasing out of the trump tax cuts from 2017 that you helped get through that is full and immediate expensing, interest de duc duck -- deductibility and research and development this bill makes them whole until 2025, which is when call other provisions of tcjics spires, they were provision in tax cut and job cuts that helped economy, gdp was 1% above last 10 year window, that is how you bring revenues to the coffer, cbo was off by 900 billion in revenues that came in because of the tax proposals and the tax cut in jobs act. larry: you had a bunch of democrats that signed on to it that was interesting.
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>> we are in a divided government, you have to give and take there are thingsy would prefer to not be i in it, you have to have a balance, we passed it out of committee last friday, 40 to 3, 3 democrats voted against it. but all republicans all 25 republicans, 15 democrats voted for it it will move to the house floor and hopefully we'll be able to deliver some relief for small businesses for american families, this also helps to us compete with china, when luke at research and develop -- look at research and development china has almost 200% match above ours. we need to be competitive, r&d needs to be in united states not china. larry: you are doing some business with my old acquaintance ron wyden, democratic chair of senate finance commit who supports this? >> yes, there was an agreement wean senator ron
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bideeron wyden and myself, i knew we would have to have a great relationship with senate, which is controlled by democrats we have been negotiating for months to find a am c a com common ground, senator ron wyden has been a good partner. larry: what is next the floor of the house? you reckon you will get it through, then to the senate. >> absolutely, it will go to floor of house. larry: might -- i think that could helping stock market right now, stock market loves these things. it is good forever profit and profit and worker wages. >> economic impact of these few provisions, are in the hundreds of billions of dollars, so, of course, the stock market should love and appreciate it hopefully it will to be floor the week we return. and i am expecting a large
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vote out of the house of representatives, sense it to senate. the senate is a different beast, but that is what the senators have to navigate. larry: a terrific fiscal commission, chairman jason smith running the ways and means committee. i am -- i don't know if you heard this discussion with grover norquist, the fiscal commission idea is a tax trap, do what you are doing, grow the economy. >> we need to grow the economy, if you look at how. the economy grew with good pax policy -- tax policy, the bad thing is that bad policy the sink the economy, you look at 2025 with 3 3.5 trillion worth of taskse -- taxesi expiring we better be smart and do the right stuff. larry: i got it we'll see
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