he's buried in taos, new mexico; alongside his beloved josefa, who dies the month before, after giving birth to their sixth child. - kit carson is one of the most complex characters in american history. his legend as a blood thirsty killer created by the dime novels of his time does not tell the whole truth. his epic adventures of war and exploration embody the american spirit in it's unique struggle with national identity and conscience. the good and the bad that come with the great conquest of the american west are summed up in carson's life. a legend of the real west. larry: hello, folks. welcome to kudlow, i'm l arry kudlow.

edward lawrence sat down for an interview with treasure secretary janet yellen, does not care much you can borrow and tax your way to prosperity,. >> have former embdirector in trump administration, russell vote. either tiktok will be banned or bytedance has to sell it off, fcc commissioner and former chair will weigh in, democrats going to block weapons to israel in i don't think so. but who knows. later on. voters did not like joe biden state of the union message. why don't men want to work, david bahnsen will tell us about, that first up, edward

lawrence sat down with ros treasury secretary janet yellen in kentucky. good work we lost him. i see him, he is not -- treasury secretary here, says janet yell et yellen said rate of inflation will fall more this year, overall prices remain too high, she believes that rent is one reason that inflation will come down this year, once the new leases cycle through, i asked her about overall prices up, 18.95% under president biden since the month he took office, and americans with new credit card debt because of the prices. >> the time we spent some of that buffer of savings in particularly lower income

households are borrowing again, on credit card, see it as normalization rather than a disturbing new trend. reporter: not concerns that delyn delinquencies have started to inch up, she will be more cautious with her words going forward. in 2021, you said that inflation was transitory, do you regret saying that. >> i regret saying it was transitory. it has come down but, i think transitory means a few weeks or months to most people. reporter: on president 7.3 trillion dollar budget processual secretary yellen defending tax increases as moderate saying she believes that u.s. needs government spending and e expandinged programs. >> you can tax your way to prosperity. >> i think deficits we need

to be on a fiscally sustainable path, it important to prip down -- bring down deficits and important to invest in the economy in ways that will befewill be felt all through america. reporter: and she said, federal debt is manageable right now, she says that federal debt is manageable when it is 53 trillion dollars. larry: all right. thank you edward lawrence. stay with me, stay with me, we'll bring you back. with former trump omb director, a few comments about this story. a great interview. i love the headline from "reason" magazine. >> white house claims borrowing 16 trillion over the next decade is fiscally responsible. so that is point number one. since when is 16 trillion

fiscal i responsible? number two, the sub heading. if you can't get close to balancing the budget when unemployment is low attack revenues near record highs and economy booming, when can you do it? hats off to "reason" magazine, treasury secretary yellen, very smart and experienced and accomplished public servant, but she was dodging my friend ed friend ed friend -- edward lawrence on issue of tax hikes, i want to make biden basketball dud no -- budget does not bother to show balance at end of 10 year window. not even a phony path. the bidens are not good socialists, they are touting efficacy of huge spending

and huge taxing and huge regulating but they don't produce the goods in their own numbers, if you believe this stuff, you should show 4 to 5% economic growth and a planned budget in 10 years maybe a balance budget in 5 years, their budget of shows me they don't believe their policies will work. i don't believe their policies will work either. but you would think if you bought into the big government socialist model, you would build in good rosie scenarios in the budget, but they don't. down through the years most administrations show a balanced budget over 10 years. a fiction yes, but maybe useful or a disciplinary falsification, but not the bidens. baseline shows a combined deficit increase of 19.5 trillion dollars, and level of debt in public hands 28

trillion in fy 24, and 4 49. 8 in fq dollars that is increase of 22 trillion in debt, they are huge numbers, they could never possibly pass for something called fiscal responsibility. which is how the biden fact sheet describes their policies, i will say there are no wars, no national emergencies or pandemic no nothing, but record spending and taxing and deficits and borrowing. my question, and that is my riff, we bring back edward lawrence with my pal, and former colleague russ vought. now president of the center for renewing america. russ. if these guys believe this stuff, you would think they

would show it. they don't have a fiction of balancing that budget, i look at that baseline, and omb baseline, there is no steady reduction. no nothing russ vought. i thought we would bring you in and hear you out. >> it is a great point. presidential budgets are post policy, it is their opportunity to white board how would we solve this fiscal insanity that we're facing, we could have a debate about various trade offs, they want to tack more, we don't -- tax more we don't, they are not even willing to have an honest conversation or put forward policies that could get to a better steady state, they just want to keeps the status quo, create as much problem for fed as necessary, and get through this election and keep on businesses as as you usual,

i think this is nothing new, it all the same, a little boring to be honest with you. larry: edward lawrence, i know you made a va valiant effort but miss yellen did not want to deal with borrowing or taxing issue, the other thing, they don't have spending cuts in their budget, they have user fees that scored as a spending cut that is not real spending cut. they don't do anything to restrain spending as far as i can tell. reporter: in propose add budget 7.3 trillion in spending and 5.5 in taxes increasing that deficit 1.8 trillion in 2025. i tried to ask her nail her down talking about -- can you tax your way to prosperity. what about the cutting to get a pla balanced budget,

they would like to see defecate co-- deficit come down, and debt come down. but said, we need the investment they are making in america, with all programs they have. there was a evation of question about whether they would balance the think about, there was no answer for that, saying we needed these investments that the presidenta doing. larry: russ, it is very interesting russ vought, she is being cagey. she is a smart lady, her hands are tied with respect to policies. i'm not sure even she agrees with, i want to make one point, if you don't cut spending someplace, somehow, you will never curb budget deficit, you want to grow the economy, she has a 2% growth path that is standard washington stuff. with tax hikes may come in lower than 2. everyone has 2% growth

path. if you don't cut spending russ vought, somewhere somehow, someplace, you are never getting even remotely close to a plan -- balanced budget. >> more than just a balanced budget, you don't take care of spending and the fiscal situation, and what happens you enter a crisis, and you can't predict when the crisis will happen then you get to a real ought austerity moment, that is what greece faced some country in a particular bind because people don't want their debt any more. and long-term we could face, that we don't know when it am hatch, by us not getting a handle on stuff that easy to cut, get rid of discretionary bloat and bureaucracy that is killing the country and dividingous basis us on base of race

and identity, start with foreign aid, by not going after, that they put us in a situation we could face fiscal boom and we won't be able to predict when it would happen. larry: edward lawrence, i hate to pick at nits, the cpi went up 18.6% from january of 2021, groceries up 21%, and gasoline up 39%, i know you raised it, you are such a mean interviewer, real wages have actually fallen. if you measure during the biden three years it dropped boby 4.7%, she was using 2019 as a baseline, i know real wages went up in trump years, they have gone down in biden years. people want to go back to the increase in real wages, this was cagey using 2019. the 2019 and 2020 were trump years edward lawrence. reporter: it was march of

2019 she was using, early 2019. and that -- . offed that out to her that was before president biden policies were put in place, start from that location, this is where we were. and here is where we are now. when this president went into office, she changed subject saying they have to do investment to get the economy going, an interesting point, i talked with her about credit card debt. not just within the federal government, she believes that the credit card debt was manageable right now for americans. and it is seem like it is inching up with delinquencies we lated to credit card and autos, this might be a breaking point for consumer at some point in this year. she didn't feel that was coming she felt people were in good financial situations and called it normalization of where the delynn quengi delinquencies would be.

larry: other thing, the business about billion ai bilge billionaires don't pay their fair share, you can't judge billionaire income based own re realize capital gains law that has never been passed, they keep doing that, they add this income in, there is no such thing as unrealized capital gains, there is no trans actions or legislation, she feels she has to play along with her boss. russ vought, let me ask you, with respect to mr. trump, who is got you everyone decent lead on economic polling now. rescission authority, and just in general, tough on budget cutting, he has to do it if he gets elected. >> i think people should judge him by budgets he has put forward, always a misgnomer that president of the not willing to tackle

the fiscal situation, he proposed more spending cuts and reductions and reforms than and president in was largely ignored by congress. and he was facing an uphill congress. now, he has put forward proposals like revising -- authority that 200 years of presidents had i believe that went away. that was original sin that allowed to no longer have a separation of power fight to control spending it was whatever congress said it would be. i think people should look at what he is put forward as post su substantive set of policies, judge him by, that they am find a heavy focus on growth, they will see policies that get us going, vital to the fiscal picture and a sequence of going after discretionary spending that is bureaucracy, that is

a third of what is necessary spending wise to deal with our get you -- our fiscal house in order ethen welfare reform, without a huge ham hock hammock of benefits that is how he has approached spending that makes a ton of sense the way that congress could pass it, if they were willing to give it a 6 look. larry: russ vought thank you. >> edward lawrence great work, great interview, thank you. >> back to kudlow, breaking up is hard to do. but tiktok is left with two choices, break up with china's bytedance or break up with america. that is the deal, it passed house today we'll talk with fcc commissioner brandon carr, here is a great song from 1960s, early '60s, ♪ ♪ instead of breaking up a wish that we were making up again ♪ ♪

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larry: all right breaking up is hard to do, house sending a clear message to tiktok, either break up with china bytedance or break up with america, we start with

hillary vaughn on capitol hill. big vote today. reporter: it was a big vote, now really clock is ticking in senate for leader chuck schumer to decide when to do -- what to with tiktok. whether the house passed bill is dead on arrival in senate or if it will receive a floor vote, some democrat want it to go through committee. that has and others like senator john fetterman want bill to get a fastpass. schumer saying he will look at it once the house sends it over, white house saying they want to see senate take quote swift action on this and some democrats and republicans in senate teaming up to support it, the chairs of senate intelligence committee releasing a joint statements saying we're united in our concern about national security threat posed by

tiktok -- >> but, as much of a bipartisan effort there is backing this bill, opposition also popping up on both sides with senators like rand paul against the bill saying: >> others are open to this bill, but not to yes, yet, one is senator john kennedy who wants cas -- classified intelligence briefing directly addressing tiktok. larry. larry: hillary vaughn thank you. >> let's bring in two experts on this. brendan carr who is fcc commissioner and ajit pai former fcc chairman and

fellow at american enterprise institute, thank you both. i don't think that my friend, i think that world of rand paul, but i don't think he is right. i was reading your notes, this stuff the. >> control is iran -- even then it has to -- a threat to national security, china qualifies. i think that some of these senators don't understand how this legislation has been written. >> thank you, senator paul has been good on so many matters of individual liberty this bill, as you noted is different, it only applies if you are controlled by a foreign adversary country, which is defined as russia, china,

north korea and an iran, only then, a national security threat in addition to being controlled, it has nothing to do with surveillance or free speech, this is a clear and present danger that tiktok recents it is -- presents it is b beholden to the ccp . tiktok tries to do it, they failed. not because they are necessarily bad people but because they are beholden to the ccp any other reforms we want will only work once you break that link back to the ccp, it goes back to what you did in white house, and huawei. >> you are kind, ajit pai there is aiwa there is -- huawei feel to this, there are two other issues that brendan carr laid out. one is the issue of so-called tiktok algorithm.

whether that thing can be seized, changed, modified. you know we loo look at this years ago, a lot of people said yeah even if it sold somehow child will have their claws to what plays on tiktok the algorithm. other point, buying tiktok, you are in the -- i know you are flirting with the invest ginvestment banks, do you think that someone would buy tiktok? >> thank you, larry. with respect to first question, it is difficult seizing an algorithm presents legal and policy issues, as a practical matter is difficult for government in real t real-time to regulate or take action with particular to your particular algorithm, commissioner carr has been on point, it has

been controlled by chinese communist party. we saw this with hamas young people use tiktok, becoming fans of osama bin laden. and i think there are reasonable questions about algorithm that need to be answered, the second question it depends on terms of divestiture, you know better, investment community in united states and in world outside of china, has really become sensitive to fact that the investment opportunities to extend there is a linkage to chinese communist party are limited. you can't have certainty over that what investment holds. there could be potential buyers. but at the end of the day they of looking for what congress is looking for, a certainty this is an individual entity, that they could have control over meaningful input into, and not answering to beijing.

larry: it may come before the fcc, they are probably weighing in on this i'm sure they will weigh in against bytedance. then, if china doesn't want bytedance to sell, then they won't sell. >> i think that house bill is smart, initial matter calls for breaking up of relationship to ccp, if ccp says no, that is when a ban comes into play. we saw a massive bipartisan vote, we see word out of senate where the bill will go next there has been quick positive signs out of senate for this house bill, including senator schumer and cotton a letter together in 2019 raising concerned

about tiktok, i think odds there are good. the tide is moving out on tiktok, maybe slower than some of us would have originally wanted, today is a big win. this was decisively great legislating in house. larry: here is the most fun. agajit pai, president biden said you know let's get it didn't he will sign it. we'll be rooting for joe biden on this one. the last word. >> i commend biden administration for continuing work that we did in trump administration to make sure our networks and technological platforms are secure in this case they understanding they were proactive in announcing their support for bill. and signals to senators who might be on fen -- fence it has our support, it makes a

big difference as you know. this is something that really important. this is not some -- this is our national security. larry: national security. and you know wha what else, it is about our kids, they are putting in terrible messages for kids. they are binding our kids -- bending our kids in wrong direct, you are both smart, and thank you for coming on brendan carr and ajit pai. thank you both. >> all right, coming up on kudlow. are democrats really going to block weapons to israel? we'll talk about that with former u.s. ambassador to israel mr. david friedman and voters did not like joe biden's state of the union message, they didn't like it by a lot, we have rich lowry and chris bedford when cutl

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larry: fani willis fiasco continues in georgia, the judge now tossing out 6 counts in election interference case against president trump, jonathan there with more. reporter: the ruling came count this morning judge scott mcafee striking down 6 counts gain former president trump, and 5 of his former associates, they include former chief of staff mark meadows and attorneys rudy guliani, the dismissed charges relate to allegation they tried to persuade georgia elected officials to violate their oaths of office and over turn mr. trump's narrow defeat. according to judge mcafee, the 6 council contain all essential elements of crimes but failed to allege sufficient detail regards nature of their commission.

district attorney fani willis could still try simpler case on remaining changes, appeal the judge's ruling or attempt to secure or detailed indictment from a new grand jury. why mcafee is still -- to see if fani willis should be disqualified from the case, he is expecting to lou wi rule on that by the end of this week. larry: one of the counts removed today was trump phone call to secretary of state about find me 11 thousand votes. reporter: that was one of the issues that the counts were surrounding the judge saying that they presented evidence of the crimes but now how they were committed,

if they want to preintroduce the dimes they would have to -- indictments they would pro sent it to a new dpra grand jury with more detail. larry: jonathan thank you so much. >> certainly. larry: a brazen move, we'll switch gears from atlanta to jerusalem. joining us now, david friedman. you read big story, but not only one. bunch of democrats in the u.s. senate' to cut -- want to cut off arms and military weapons to israel. unless and until israel can show some kind of perfect plan that will never ever harm a civilian as they finished job to destroy hamas down in rafah employee don't understand it, what do you hear there in israel on this kind of second

guessing? >> i think larry it is deeply recented this micromanaging of israel's attempt to defend itself against the ruthless enemy. now, if israel does not go into rafah, to be clear they lose the war. it is that basic. hamas will survive. their leadership will survive. they will, emerge with battalions in world of terrorism that is huge, we all should be petrified. they will inspire terrorists in world to take on their enemies, hamas, they know they can't defeat israel militarily. so what their strategy, we'll commit the ruthless attacks, and suffer some incoming, then we have to hope there is enough civilian wa wa casualties,

real or fake, only way we could win is if america stops israel, this sudden lis the only way, whether democratic senators and biden administration is guilty of this they get soft on israel, they are committing negotiating malpractice with trying to end this battle, get the hostages back, and get a cease-fire, as hamas sees america going soft on israel, hamas said we could win. they raise price and make it harder. larry: hamas has not agreed to any prisoner exchange, or ramadan cease fear, if i were joe biden i would want idf to do what idf will do, it could be done soon. it would help him, iron like help him, but most important thing it would help israel, guest the job done as fast as possible. one other bone of contention a story that u.s. military

ships are moving toward israel, and set up an offshore pier that would be in gaza, waters off of gaza. for humanitarian aid. and i wondered what the -- what israeli leadership thinks about that move. >> well i don't think they are in a position, they don't' to go off the rails with america, it is just, you know mata political trick, you create a pier, great, the boat lands there, okay then you have same problem anywhere else, you have to get them on to a truck, and truck has to get them to right people, and hamas is commandeering all of the trucks and selling them to black market, there is plenty of food there, but hamas controls it and sells it at a price most cannot afford, i don't see how the pier would fix it, it may make people feel better about humanitarian aid, the way to make this a good

outcome for everyone, as good as you can get let israel win as quickly as possible, get rid of hamas and start rebuilding it is not complicated. >> david friedman, former ambassador thank you, sir. be well. >> shifting gears. a lot of gearshifting to president's election. last night no today is wednesday. yeah. donald trump and joe biden officially clinched their party's nominations last night. there you have it. joinings now to talk about it rich lowry, editor and chief of national review and chris bedford, senior editor at the federalist. rich, i was just reading after that smashing bellicose. over caffeinated state of union message, mark penn paris poll 59 percent said it was devicive, and 41% saying it was unifying. >> i think this is unsurprising result that

speech was not geared to reaching out to middle, it was gears toed the -- gears to reassuring his base hike stand there for 60 minute, the polls showed no bump for him. why would they. he didn't say anything new. larry: chris, here we are, trump with a comeback from a year or two ago with party nomination, and joe biden he -- who loves democracy nonetheless ruled out any primaries that might be effective against him. what kind of shape is trump? i think two biggishes are inflation and border. >> i think he is in strong shape. joe biden not you look at last match up donald trump was at among worst of his presidency, had that election happened year

before in 2019, he would have had a victory, but he was doing poorly, coronavirus was wrecking things, he was handling coronavirus poorly, he was subject of unrelenting media attacks that were so stupid, yo struggle to remember what the hubbub was bat same time joe biden, they had remote valleys of painted as a grandfatherly figure to bring country back together, we had a couple of years of biden, it did not pan out, the last state of union, joe biden is among his lowest, a lot more not ofrage ja nostalgia are in donald trump. larry: rich lowry, which is it? are the illegals illegal or undocumented. >> they are both. they don't have documents, they are illegal. this and i think. larry: your column. >> this is bonkers, a huge vulnerability for president

biden, he blew it up, it his responsible, not to do anything to try to alleviate the situation, they signal they are thinking about it, he did not announce it at border or state of the union and biden now suggesting he will not do it if he losing to donald trump to this is a huge reason. larry: kirks two key issue -- chris, two key issues, last few months an upturn of anonymouses in, gasoline prices that gone unand inflation. that is less than 5. trump lift them around 2 bucks a gallon, i wonder, on the economy, on inflation, what is your take. i think trump is in good shape, what do you think, are there any vunne vulnerabilities. >> i think more for joe biden, presidents can lie

their way out of a lot of things. they can take credit for stock market and say is not their fault, but inflation people blame whoever is in charge. it is so high right now it is entering popular culture, you can't go to the grocery store and not notice it, you can't go to a restaurant and not notice, you have influencers talk about how they feel they are at airport that is being noticed by a broader society. that will be something that plays to trump's point. if donald trump is actually willing to tackle that, if he is willing to make hard policy intig decisions that will be another matter. larry: budget cutting is not painful. we have tax cuts and budget cutting. rich last time you were here

you went to mcdonald's you were still shocked. >> 17 dollars for two fries and a milk shake. it is cumulative. prices have not gone down this is further addition to elevated prices. larry: prices up 18%. in 3 years, you know, real wages are down about 5%. they got a big pay cut. >> huge, arguably the sing elf mosingle most economic indicator. if they ask you are better off in 2019 or now, people will say again 19. 2019. richarrich lowry. >> thank you so much. >> coming up on kudlow, why don't men want to work. very simple, i'm working, i work 6 days a week, we'll

ask david bahnsen. full time work and the mining of life, we'll show you a chart that will blow your mind and knock your socks off there is no shrinkflation in that either, i'm kudlow, (♪) i've got to go. ok. bye. mom! (♪) -thanks mom. -yeah. (♪) (♪) you were made to dream about it for years. we were made to help you book it in minutes.

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larry: tough question before the house, why aren't men working, including prime age men, part pace rate parttation rate down about 20%, here to talk about too david bahnsen. david, men should work, but, put up on full screen the chart. labor force participation rate for men, this is a terrible looking chart why in. >> i think we're in a cultural epidemic, it is primarily prime working age men, i think that there is an adolescence people are not entering workforce in young 20s there is a war on teenage. employment. they are tendering in their 20 -- entering in their 20s with no skills and experience, you have problem, pot, video games, they are cultural things not political, but put

downwardes from our on men working. larry: government benefits a part of it in absolutely. >> it getting worsened by government response. larry: i am not here to talk to -- i work 6 days a week, 5 days on television, glad to do it, i am grateful to be here, i do three hour radio show, you are coming on this weekend. now, that is just my -- that is what i know, why are we losing that, i think a lot of people in my generation, i believe in work, work is a good thing, you make a buck but it is good, it keeps you occupied. >> it is not just you, who works 6 days a week or me, i got it from god, he worked 6 days and rifted one ha is

the creational model for all of us. work 6 days, rest one, we're blessed with technology, efficiency, we don't have to work as hard or much as physical pain as we used to, but idea to go in life the pure leisure and recreation is not what god made us for, making people hopeless and helpless and taking away seniority, expertise, wisdom out of the workforce, i don't want 25-year-olds running newsroom at new york times we want 60 years old have been around. larry: a good point, the country and economy needs that. these are prime age not old. >> 25 to 49-year-olds. larry: i -- every time take to the white house interns, i said that work hard, when you work hard, work harder still. only way, you are a hard worker too david bahnsen put your book up. full time, working and meaning o life,.

>> thank you. larry: i'll be right back, folks. there it is. before you use ai to transform business, accelerate growth, predict trends, you need to begin with trust. introducing watsonx governance. helping you govern any ai, as data, models, and policies change, so you can scale it responsibly. let's create ai that begins with trust,

with watsonx governance. ibm. let's create.

larry:y: that's it for "kudlowt thanks forch watching, folks. ♪