of 1890 which stipulates customers have to be harmed. in fact what is happening customers enjoyed huge benefits. they can't buy enough apple products. i think the case is misguided. i think they're trying to prove something that doesn't exist. reminds me of the situation with microsoft which was a whole lot of stink, a lot of wasted dollars before they ultimately settled. liz: keith, you have been gutsy, and you buy when a stock that you love is down. buffett would say that is exactly what you should be doing. thank you very much for opening up your order book for us in this last couple of seconds. here comes the closing bell. folks we are looking at three major average record closes. [closing bell rings] second day in a row for the dow, s&p and nasdaq. tomorrow democratic congressman ro khanna from california on the possible tiktok ban. ♪. larry: hello, folks, welcome to

"kudlow," i'm larry kudlow. so profits are the mother's milk of stocks and record earnings are driving record stock prices higher. our own taylor riggs and "breitbart"'s john carney will break it down for us and once again joe biden is trying to end gasoline powered cars. it is going to fail just like the other attempts. people don't want evs. we have senator cynthia lummis to weigh in on that. plus senator john thune is going to tell us what prime minister netanyahu said raging at chuck schumer in a meeting with the senate republican conference yesterday. and later in the show supermarket boss john catsimatidis is tackling shoplifters. mark simone and joe concha will weigh in on that one. first up let's get a wrap of the markets. a big record day. we have kelly o'grady. you're just driving markets higher on a daily basis. >> reporter: that's why i'm wearing green today, larry. green on the screen.

stocks rallying today on rate cut optimism. you had the dow approaching that 40,000 milestone today. it hit an all-time high as well as the s&p 500 and the nasdaq. i want to give you a taste of what was happening with the mag-7. so you can see, actually meta platforms was up but the rest were all down. rather apple specifically was down significantly after the doj announced the lawsuit over the iphone maker being a monopoly. that news driving the stock down. that is the latest tech company targeted by the federal government. the big sector driving the gains today was the chipmaker. they are all up, micron technology, all of them on the screen, lots of green. micro technology their forecast was up. a.i. continues to drive growth. micron beat on revenue and profit expectations. a.i. is not just speculative but

driving real value. reddit the first major tech ipo this year. it popped. it started trading at $34. it closed above $50. red iters can be loyal one second and upset net next. we'll see how the stock keeps trading. larry: kelly o'grady keep the green coming. before we delve into the market stuff, fed and all that stuff i want to jump the gun on the crazy new "biden rule" to eliminate gas-powered cars. the guy can't help himself. once again president biden is trying to kill gasoline-powered car. you would think he learned how unpopular this is but he hasn't learned. he sending the epa back in action with new tailpipe emission rules would basically knock out combustion engines by 2032 which is only eight years from now, maybe less. let me get this right, in eight

years joe biden wants to knock out an industry that for about 125 years has been one of the backbones of the entire american economy. now how arrogant can you get? i will call it chutzpah, whatever it is. last year evs made up less than 8% of new car sales. ford took a 4.7 billion-dollar operating loss on its own ev business. evs are significantly more expensive than gas-powered cars. there aren't remotely enough electric battery chargers available. something like 172,000 were installed last year while estimates suggest you need two million by the year 2030. most of all-americans don't want evs. they don't want to hang out for hours to fill up their battery when in three minutes they can fill up their gas tank. they don't want to pay more. they don't like all these overeducated, left-wing green

new deal biden the bureaucrats to tell them what to go do, what to buy, how to breathe, anything else. same story with the climate extremists taking away gas stoves or hot water heaters, pizza ovens, shower heads, microwaves, air conditioners, ceiling fans, on and on. you can almost hear people screaming stop telling me how to live and what to buy. of course the assault on gasoline cars removes consumer choice. this is supposed to be a free country, but the green new deal crats don't think we should have a free country with real consumer choice, do they? detroit, the existing american car industry will be destroyed. hundreds of thousands of jobs will be lost. wages will go down. by the way there will be less carbon emissions on balance? will there be? i don't think so. the commodities necessary to make the batteries and the

batteries themselves will actually release massive amounts of carbon. then of course, when you plug in the batteries you need electricity and it is not going to be all solar or wind. so therefore you will need even more carbon emissions. meanwhile the evs are heavier, they damage tires and roads which requires more tires and roads and therefore emitting more carbon. then there is the chinese story, that the bidens remain in complete denial b. china has the battery commodities. china has massive subsidies to supply batteries and build evs. china is already flooding the world market with cheap cars, mostly evs. now they want to route their cheap evs through mexico in order to avoid tariffs when sold in the u.s. can the bidens really believe that average americans don't understand all this? that we're being taken to the cleaners by china? that american jobs won't be

lost, towns damaged, communities hurt all because of something called climate science? that itself makes no sense at all? know what? donald trump was right last week when he pointed out, that president biden's ev mandate will do great harm to the u.s. car business. you might even say it will cause a bloodbath. and that's my riff. all right. now, we will go to the market. joining me to talk about it, taylor riggs, co-host of "the big money show" right here on fox business and john carney, "breitbart economics and finance" editor and. editor of "breitbart." fed would there, were they, rates going up, the fed is a rorschach test. you can see into it what whatever you want, my line for

the last 48 hours, maybe the last 48 years. i just want to say one thing, taylor, i appeal to your senses. you've been in this twist. you worked for different -- i mean profits are the mother's milk of stocks. >> yes. larry: i just want to say maybe this last rally was prompted by what jay powell said yesterday, i can't imagine why because know one knows what he really said. the fact i'm kind of consulting ed yardeni's news lear. he is a very smart guy as we know. >> yeah. larry: profit margins are at a 16-month high. forward earnings are at a record high according to mr. yardeni, up 11.2% right now over the next year. that will do it. i mean profits are booming. i think profits are the backbone of the whole economy but i think they are mother's milk of stocks. i'm adding, people say how, when, why. it is all about the fed. >> it is not. people are relieved that the fed

still signaled three cuts instead of two. as we were talking about earlier the median dot plot was one vote away from doing two rate cuts instead of three. you can argue maybe the market took too much reading into what the fed had to say. i agree with you it is all about profits, ah. >> i do think a.i. has structurally changed the game. we talk about what changed this year, where is the gadot recession, where is the gadot pullback, the correction, bear market, i think you can argue it is not coming because nvidia the beginning of this week continued to wow us change the game structurally. they are delivering chips 30 to $40,000 and people are lining up to get them. that's the difference. larry: i think it's big stuff. john, maybe in 30 words or less you can tell me what the fed said yesterday. more rate, fewer rate, i don't think the fed should cut-rates at all this year, all right, or maybe not until after the election's over. there is no evidence of it now. actually the last two or three

months inflation rates have been higher. what did he say, is that having an impact on this record stock market? >> it is because what the fed said they expect more growth but they also said they stand ready to cut. they reintroduced the idea of the fed put. if the economy does well, stocks should do well, to go because profits will be there. if economy starts to sink, the fed is ready to cut so the market will do well. basically the market went up. that is what powell did yesterday. that is what we saw in the market yesterday. that is what we're seeing today. larry: i think i understood, i'm not sure what you said but i think that is the old green span put? >> basically the economy looks very strong right now. the fed increased expectation of gdp growth from 1.4% growth to 2.4%. they said they think the economy is going to be strong. if the economy weakens, they will start cutting right away. there is no real downside. the fed took away the downside risk in the market so stocks

will keep going up. larry: so i will repeat, i mentioned this yesterday with steve moore and art laffer, things that the fed should think about, because the inflation story is not that great the last few months. i'm not saying it is the 1970s all over again. i'm just saying it is going in the wrong direction. the so-called supercore -- >> core services. larry: excluding housing rent, that has gone up almost 7% at an annual rate for the last three months. crb index of commodities, plus 12% since november. brent crude up 19% to $86 since december. gasoline prices up 1%, $3.52. that is not five dollars but it isn't below $3 either. actually the inflation, the two-year inflation breakevens in the tips market up almost 80 basis points year-to-date, closing in on 280. the price of gold since october up 20% from 1820 to 2180.

now when i was a much younger man practicing this on wall street for the now-defunct but still great company called bear stearns, i would have used these price indicators as warnings that inflation is not dead. >> and you can correct me on this john, but what i think powell tried to do yesterday is say he doesn't look at any single given data point and any one or two month isn't it. it is more of that longer term trend which is why they didn't believe inflation when it was coming down at the end of last year and they won't believe inflation when it was targeting trending up january, february. they want to look at the long term trend. i think mohammed he will air ran, former at allianz. >> he is a professor now. >> that is where he moved on to, john. larry: that is what happens to. you get one forecast wrong you're out of here, you're teaching school someplace. [laughter]. i'm sorry. he just for the record i know

mohammed, he is a good guy. he is a little tiny left-of-center but mostly a straight-shooter. i want to say that. >> i think what he was saying this is a federal reserve willing to sacrifice inflation to make sure the economy is okay. if inflation runs a little hot it is okay. >> that's right. one of the things that made no sense what the fed did they increased their estimate for growth, increased their estimate for inflation, did not change where rates were going to do this year. if you look a little deeper, they changed next year, they're not coming down as much, the year after that they're not coming down as much. the thing that surprised me, the market completely ignored, they changed the long-term forecast. went up 2.5% for fed funds rate, tiny little move, but first time it happened in four years. larry: i happen to agree with you and i think your attention to detail is right. from your "breitbart" digest,

biden-flation, fed sees interest rate rates staying higher for longer to fight inflation. i think you're right. secretly jay powell will not cut-rates this year anyway before the election. on the other hand, nick petraeus of "wall street journal" who covers the beat very smart guy, how the fed was dovish. i was reading the term dovish from a lot of people. i don't think -- he is keeping 2% target, isn't that the where the rubber meets the road? all the lefties wanted him to go to 3%, hurry up, cut-rates, juice the economy to bail out joe biden, i don't see him doing that. >> i don't think so, i think it would be ashamed for to change the long term inflation economists. most economists you two two no more than i would, 2% in the long run is what you want it generally to be. >> they kept the long run inflation target the same and moved the long run fed funds rate. that is going to keep moving. they will keep moving that up.

what they're communicating there, it takes slightly higher rates than they used to be believe to get down to 2% this is actually a hawkish message. larry: by the way i want to add on, maybe you should have put this in my riff, you wipe out gas-powered cars and stick evs in, that is inflationary. >> yes. larry: you have nothing but higher prices for everything across the board. >> think what a lot of people are noticing auto insurance is way up. more evs you get, higher auto insurance comes out, because evs are very expensive to repair once you get in a wreck. you will see the auto insurance. i'm told that is one of drivers of auto insurance inflation is high, so much more expensive to repair a car today than it was 10 years ago. larry: good point. as long as profits stay high, stocks do okay. profits come down you're in teach yogurt. john carney, taylor riggs. catch taylor with her co-hosts

brian brenberg, jackie deangelis the the big money show every day here one eastern on fox business. thanks to both of you. joe biden trying to stop gas-powered cars. just like other attempts it will fail. americans are not into evs. they are not into you. catch "kudlow" monday through friday 4:00 p.m. on fox business. if you can't make it at 4:00, just text your favorite nine-year-old and she will tell you how to dvr the show. you will never miss a profit-driven rally. i'm kudlow. we'll be right back.

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♪. larry: so there he goes again, joe biden trying to end gasoline powered cars. won't ever give up. fox business's grady trimble live from d.c. with all the gory details. good afternoon, grady. >> reporter: good afternoon, larry. the biden administration says the new rule from epa will drastically reduce tailpipe emissions from cars to drive climate change and ultimately save you money on gas because you will be driving an electric vehicle. the epa projects up to 56% of all new vehicles sold will be

electric between 2030 and 2032. you remember the original ep a proposal called for more than 2/3s of vehicles to being electric eight years from now. the white house still wants to reduce emission by the same amount in 2032. the rule slows the pace in the next several years. they give the automakers flexibility to choose how to achieve the target. they can come on with their own combination of all electric, hybrid or gas-powered vehicles so they can meet the target. it looks less aggressive that the proposal put out by the epa next year. republicans like john ba as show still doesn't like it and i wit fight to overturn it. that the biden administration is trying to force americans into electric vehicles they don't want, don't need, can't afford. democrats are already telling americans what kind of stoves to cook with. now they want to control every

room in your house, even your garage. the industry that group that represents the, they call it a stretch goal. larry work not come as a surprise with you that the environmental groups are pleased with this new epa rule. larry:, but they drive gas-powered suvs. you can be sure of that. grady trimble, appreciate it. for more on this let's bring in wyoming senator cynthia lummis. senator loom police, thank -- l, thank you for being on the show this is a ruse, not a very good ruse, a ruse to end gasoline powered cars, which the bidens and green new deal bureaucrats always wanted. that is the way i look at that, do you disagree? >> i don't disagree with you and

fully agree with my colleague john barrasso. we drive mile high every day and drive through bitter cold and drive through mountains. electric vehicles are not built to perform in the environments we drive every day. they are expensive, they don't work, they don't have enough range and we don't have enough ev charging stations and it is something that was built for the coastal elites, by the coastal elites and they're the ones who need to use those but they can't impose them on middle america because they weren't built for us and they won't work for us. larry: you know, it is just, the arrogance of this, look, you got to have batteries. you got to have commodities. of course china has most of the commodities because they don't let us drill here in the states. you got a lot of the nickel and lithium and what the knot in wyoming but they won't let you drill for it for the greenies. anyway, drilling causes carbon

emissions. building the batteries causes carbon emissions. roads and tires causes carbon emission. my point, net-net on balance i'm not at all convinced, neither are a lot of people that you're actually going to reduce carbon emissions. that's what i think. >> i agree with you, larry. we look at the carbon emissions associated with the production of wind energy. we look at the fact that in order to make wind ture burns run -- turbines run when it is bitter cold requires oil. we look at the fact now you're seeing interesting new alivances. you're seeing liquid fuels join forces where before they didn't used to. meaning coal, ethanol, and oil and gas. you'reless seeing the make sure of combustion engines in cars in detroit and also in michigan, the states that are really

battleground states, creating new, interesting alliances to push back on something consumers can't afford, don't want to buy and don't want pushed down their throats. it is a very interesting environment. larry: and i think trump is right. in these communities, detroit, outside of detroit, maybe elsewhere down south, there is going to be a bloodbath. you will lose hundreds of thousands of jobs. it is just that simple. here is another one, senator lummis. i don't know what the authority is, does the epa have the congressionally-mandated legal authority to take out gasoline cars? i don't recall any such bill and as you know, west virginia versus the epa said that a lot of this stuff is unconstitutional. now what about that? since when did we say you can abolish gasoline cars? >> i think that this administration doesn't have regard for the law.

you see it at our southern border. you see it at the epa. they want to take more control than they ever had just by disregarding the law and going with what they think is good policy from the elitists on the coasts. and they just say, if you don't like it, take us to court. it's the same kind of garbage that you see president trump having to go through in these lawsuits against him where they're alleging crimes where no one was injured and they're going to use these ridiculous judgments to take his property away. larry: yeah. >> this is a lawless administration that we're dealing with, larry and we're seeing it in the department of justice, in the, in the fbi, the cia. we're seeing it at epa as well. part of it is because this crazy radical environmental agenda. larry: i got one more for you, senator, last minute,

minute 1/2. biden has an, biden has an eight billion dollar request for 50,000 climate corps. i think of them as little climate crusaders but i will tell you what i think they are. this is bigger than zuck a bucks if you ask me. these people will go out and harvest votes come election day for the, you know, pro-green candidates, i.e., the democratic candidate. he wants 50,000 climate corps people. what do you think they're going to do come election day, i ask you, senator lummis. >> certainly they will be out supporting campaigns of proponents for the green new deal. these were drafted by people who don't create jobs. they don't work in the creation of economic wealth and prosperity in the united states. they're like community organizers. larry: yes.

>> so you have, even the climate shine activities who helped create the united nations global climate change initiatives are saying this is not an existential threat. this is something that's not going to destroy our universe as quickly as our southern border is being invaded, our economy is being eroded, our money is worth less and less, inflation is destroying the economic life of everyday americans. even some of the people who developed the u.n. climate change work are saying that. larry: i know. >> so the biden administration has taken this to an extreme that it was never supposed to be, never intended and using it to implement more of a statist, marxist philosophy. larry: there is no congressional mandate for it. 50,000 little climate crusaders. what you have there is 50,000

vote harvesters. i know what that is about. cynthia loomis from the great state of wyoming. >> thank you, larry. larry, he will tell us about netanyahu raging at chuck schumer at the republican conference yesterday. netanyahu took off against schumer and schumer deserved it. supermarket boss, john catsimatidis, my dear friend, he is tackle being tackling shoplifters. mark simone, joe concha will weigh in. remember "kudlow" is available as a podcast, wow, episodes available every day, week days on spotify, apple and foxbusinesspodcast.com. i'm a podcast. free market capitalist podcast, at ameriprise financial, more than 9 out

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and we are just getting started. (fisher investments) in this market, you'll find fisher investments is different than other money managers. (other money manager) different how? aren't we all just looking for the hottest stocks? (fisher investments) nope. we use diversified strategies to position our clients' portfolios for their long-term goals. (other money manager) but you still sell investments that generate high commissions for you, right? (fisher investments) no, we don't sell commission products. we're a fiduciary, obligated to act in our client's best interest. (other money manager) so when do you make more money, only when your clients make more money? (fisher investments) yep. we do better when our clients do better. at fisher investments, we're clearly different. ♪. larry: all right, israel's prime

minister netanyahu met with the senate gop conference yesterday. went right after schumer calling it inappropriate, outrageous and other things. let's talk about it with senate republican blip, our friend john thune of south dakota. senator thune, thank you, sir. judging from the reports you were there and i'd like a blow by blow description but netanyahu really took off on schumer and i'm sure you saw, senator thune, today, former senator joe lieberman, democrat, then independent i guess you'd say, he took off after schumer also. i just don't understand it. what did netanyahu say? >> well i mean he got asked the question about it, larry, and he just responded very candidly. what else can you say. you have american leaders from the majority leader in the united states senate to the president basically telling a democrat ally of the united states, calling for regime change, telling them they need to have an election and elect a

new leader. that is wildly inappropriate and, obviously he acknowledged that and he didn't run into any resistance in the room because that's what we all belief. schumer and biden have been way out of their lane in the things that they have been saying, not only with respect to trying to call for elections in israel and also telling them how you know, to win the war there, how to defeat hamas. that is not something that the majority leader of united states senate and the president of the united states ought to be doing. larry: senator thune, i will read you from joe lieberman's column in the journal today which struck me, senator lieberman, jewish, friendly with schumer, they were colleagues for many years, so he said, quoting from schumer, if netanyahu remains in power, quote, then the u.s. will have no choice but to play a more active role in shaping israeli's

policy using our leverage to change the present course. like schumer telling netanyahu we're going to run israel. you can't do that. nobody can do that. >> you sure can't, especially a country just 167 days ago was viciously attacked by hamas. nearly 1200 casualties. they still have a 130 hostages holding there and terrorists surrounding them. they have hezbollah in the north, hamas, the houthis, these militias, militias operating in iraq and syria. by the way we have 3400 americans serving there who have been attacked 170 times by iranian-backed militias. israel is surrounded by terrorist organizations and hamas is the worst of those and they have got to defeat and eliminate them. we need to give them the space to do that. israel obviously is trying to minimize civilian casualties.

the casualties many of them are occurring hamas use their own citizens as human shields. this is not, this is totally out of line and it is irresponsible rhetoric on the part of the president of the united states and the majority leader of the united states senate. larry: senator thune, on this point you just mentioned, on the casualty point, why is it, the biden administration is now using hamas, so-called gaza hospital numbers of casualties, for men, for women, for children? now would anybody believe those characterrers? those numbers have proven to be false. israel has vastly different number around israel's toll on so-called civilians is much, much, much lower than what obviously hamas is reporting? why is biden, why is blinken, why are all these guys using these hamas numbers when you know they are phony? >> well i think, larry, it has entirely to do with domestic

politics. in the united states they're looking at the electoral map and they're concerned about palestinian votes in some of these key states and their political left in this country is sympathetic to hamas. no ifs, ands, or buts about it, you look at college campuses, it is crazy. that is what it is. mischaracterization of all those things, the use of data which is wrong data and the fact that they would trust hamas says a lot right there about whose side they're really on in this. larry: senator thune, last one, 30 seconds, sir, reports today, the u.s. is going to submit new draft resolution to the u.n. calling for an immediate cease-fire between israel and hamas in gaza, an immediate cease-fire, not even a negotiated one. what is, what is that? >> well again, it is trying to tell israel how to succeed in winning this war. remember, they were attacked by hamas, not the other way around.

larry: yeah. >> they ought to have a say in any kind of cease-fire, negotiation that goes on over there. again, this is, this is just unnecessary meddling in the after face of a close ally and friend who is trying to defeat a terrorist organization on their border just 167 days ago attacked them and killed 1200 israelis. larry: yes, sir. senator thune, it is a pleasure sir. you've been dodging us these recent years. glad to have you back [laughter] >> always great to be with you. you know that. larry: great to have you. thank you very much. all right, folks, entirely new subject. let's talk about new york's shoplifting crisis. "new york post," $4.4 billion industry shoplifters. mark sum moan, wor radio show host, joe concha, fox news, fox news contributor and best-selling author. we don't even list it anymore.

this is a wonderful story. supermarket boss, john catsimatidis, very dear friend of yours and mine, puts anti-theft coding on haagen-dazs which seems to be -- but john's quote is terrific. he is basically saying, john catsimatidis and his staff unlike other retailers tackle shoplifters before the police can arrive. john says, in this interview, dial 911, dial, 911 you may just go away. shoplifters take half the store before the police arrive. his workers voluntarily tackled the shoplifters. if they do, he will pay the legal an or health damages although it hasn't been very bad. he has got one more. they steal haagen-dazs from our supermarket, take it four blocks away to the nearest bodega. they need to get there before it melts. good for cats he is going after

them when everybody else afraid to or don't care. >> if you were bodega, your ice cream supplier out of breath with trash bag. people might not know what they're talking about. new york city, council, governor, mayor, democrats shoplifting is legal. they won't put you in jail. larry: right. >> they won't do anything. there are gangs robbing everything out of every store. everything in the drugstore is locked up. shampoo, bar of soap. it is under plastic, push a button, wait for the manager. larry: a pain in the you know what. >> forcing everybody to go online and shop. it is absolutely insane, biden keeps bragging crime is down, they just declare things are not crimes. they stop arresting everybody. larry: four 1/2 billion dollar shoplifting industry. that was just an estimate in "the new york post." joe concha, i love john catsimatidis and margot, so does mark simone, but really important thing about this seems he is willing to go after those

guys? >> yes. larry: most of these other, you read stories about san francisco and other places, in new york too. they won't touch them. in fact, you might even be fired if your staff at a retailer, if you go after one of these shoplifters who unfortunately, many, many times are illegal migrants in the first place. >> mr. cats can go after them because he is a very, very successful businessman. larry: that's right. >> billionaire. so he can afford to pay for the legal fees, but there are a lot of bodegas, most bodegas as matter of fact they are under such slim margins, they don't have these types of resources when they get their goods stolen from them, they ain't getting it back. to your report we've seen many news reports of security people who can't be security people at places like walmart if think actually tackle a shoplifter or subdue them, they get fired. larry: unbelievable. >> fired from their jobs. larry: i don't understand how that is possible. john cats, if you know the man

as we know him, he is very spirited. >> sure. larry: but he is a, he loves new york. he is trying to make new york better. sometimes you got to take things up in your own hands. i mean the authorities won't do it. the alvin bragg won't do it. they're too busy destroying donald trump's cash and buildings and god knows what else. somebody has got to defend the city. you look at this feedback survey, probably saw this, quality of life is the number one issue. new yorkers are decidedly unhappy in most every respect, whether it's crime, neighborhoods, education, the economy. they are unhappy. and what are we doing about it? what has eric adams done about it? >> first of all says 51% want to leave new york. if you check every year it was always, five years ago it was 58% want to leave. they don't leave. new york is doing great. try to find a parking space around this building. every restaurant is packed. apartment inventory is so low, lowest in 50 years.

new york is doing fine. it will come back. larry: really? >> you know who is leaving though? new york city police officers. last year 2500 police officers retired. some did so before they even were eligible for their pension. that comes after you work for 20 years. more people moved out of new york city last year, according to the census bureau than any other state. guess where they're going? not california, they're going to florida. larry: going south and southwest. >> miami. larry: by the way the school system continues to deteriorate here. the firefighters an unhappy -- i mean, i don't know mark, you and i go to the best restaurant, i get that. most of them are full. some of them the service is so bad they pay us but that's a different segment. completely different segment. >> arby's really fallen off that much? larry: [laughter]. if push comes to shove we'll have john catsimatidis to run the city. >> he should run for mayor, right? doesn't that make sense? makes sense to me. >> common sense guy as he always

sense. common sense. >> common sense over crazy. larry: common sense over, joe concha. president biden's pro-china plan to eliminate gasoline-powered cars in america is no common sense. we have former epa administrator, andrew wheeler. my friend, former colleague. be right back. there are many ways to do things. at old dominion freight line, we do them this way. this way has people who start early. people who care and inspire each other to do things the way they should be done. this way uses technology (♪) and goes the extra mile (♪) to deliver your promises on-time, every time. this way is why we're the number one national

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♪. larry: once more into the breach. joe biden trying to end gasoline powered cars but folks are just not into it. joining to us talk about it, andrew wheeler, former epa administrator under president trump with his perspective. andy, great to see you. one question right off the top, does the epa have the authority to agendas -- agendas powered cars. what authorities signed by presidents give them this authority? i'm not aware of it. you were a former administrator. tell us. >> that is really a question. larry, thanks for having me on the show. last year, supreme court decision, west virginia, epa, obama-biden administration tried to fuel switch at the utility side from fossil fuels to solar

the supreme court said no. they're trying to fuel switch on cars. this is really analogous. i question whether or not they have the legal authority. this will get up to the supreme court. i can see this being slapped down at the agency. larry: so, andy wheeler, another thing, look, on balance, when you took everything together, you have to produce batteries, you have to produce cars, you have wear and tear on tires around the roads, you really think if everybody had an ev which they don't and they won't, because this stuff is never going to stand up, does it really reduce the carbon footprint the way they say it will? >> i don't think it does. you have to look broader than carbon footprints because we're dependent upon china and the congo for materials in the batteries. they have deplorable environmental conditions. the biden administration won't let us mine those materials here in the u.s. even though we have them. in the congo they use child labor. in china they use forced labor.

they have deplorable environmental standards. we have the best environmental standards in the world. if we were mine those materials here in the united states it would be much cleaner. i really question the overall environmental impact of this regulation. it is going to force more people into evs and we don't have the electricity to power these cars. the final rule, the proposal bass 2/3 by 2032. the final rule is basically the same. is 56% evs but another 13% hybrids by 2032. they did that to try to appease the united auto workers. i don't, it may appease the union bosses i think auto workers themselves to see these jobs are not here in the united states and the ev cars that are made in the united states use much fewer, fewer employees. so it is going to be a lit to the uaw around to the auto workers and the middle class. the middle class can't afford the evs any way. larry: that is what president trump was referring to,. >> yes. larry: he said it would be a

bloodbath. maybe you don't like his adverbs andage whytives but reality, this thing will basically damage america, america's working folks, american communities as you say advantage china. is that what we really want? >> exactly. they're saying it is not a ban. "the new york times" today in their article parroting the biden administration said this is not a ban. the example they gave is because people will still be able to buy used cars. larry: oh. >> that is i don't think what americans want. americans want to buy the new car they want. they don't want the social engineering from the biden administration. they want a capitalist society where they can decide what they buy and what kind of cars they drive. >> used cars prices will go sky-high. >> yes. larry: borrowing costs for used cars are much higher than they are for new cars. andrew wheeler, former epa. >> great to see you. larry: yes, sir. all right, folks, quick break. i will be back with my last word

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