delayed, it was reduced. that is something to watch closely. jackie: doesn't seem as important with the appeals court ruling. he says he has the cash for 175. still this is a lot of hype. i'm looking at this, all the rest of his problems, saying it is a lot to digest. >> reporter: it is. jackie: brian: can you imagine if the board gave him special authority to sell those shares? it would be like another court case in 10 seconds. jackie: would hurt the shareholders. >> reporter: you have to be careful how much volatility you create. even though it won't happen tomorrow. even though we'll get the listing tomorrow. kelly, thanks so much. appreciate it. meme stock extraordinaire "making money" with charles payne starts right now as well. charles: thank you all, very, very much. good afternoon, everyone, i'm charles payne. this is "making money." breaking right now it is a quiet session. investtores we're trying to assess what the heck is going on at the fed. this latest verse of jay powell has a lot of folks scratching their heads.

meanwhile rotation and red flags. there is a lot going on beneath the surface. we have you covered. baseball scandal, chip wars, and president biden weighing in on real estate commissions. all that is for rob luna. past is prologue, welcome back judge roy bean and tom fitton on law fair in 2024. my latest on the casualties in the scorched earth climate change agenda. all that and so much more on "making money." ♪. charles: you know the old saying, follow the money? you can also say maybe follow the targets. so last week i pointed out wall street continues to stress their targets, right? and here's the thing they have been so tepid, they have been very, very tepid. coming into the year you can see i mean the numbers are really low. the street was looking on average 4891. we blew that past a long time

ago. societe generale, 5200. this is what you will start seeing now. sort of like, if things are freight, this is what happens. it is really weird, if i jump off a pier i will get wet. of course if things are great it is going to go higher. goldman sachs playing that game. they're 5200, but they say if technology does well, and it has been doing well, the s&p could go to 6,000. no kidding, right, sherlock. speaking of technology, that's where everybody is, right? look at this. this is all the cash flowed into the market. equity fund this is year. technology killing it, getting all the money except for a little bit more going into industrials. interesting enough energy has seen the most money go out. energy is on fire right now. so maybe a lot of folks already regretting that move. it takes us back to whether or not tech can keep going. one of the things i find interesting about the tech rally now as opposed to 2021, these are not profitable tech stocks.

you remember how great they did? talking about companies losing money hand over fist. if you make comparisons to now to 2000. keep in mind these non-profitable stocks, they have been down, they have not come back up. this is actually a good thing right now. it means people who are participating are looking for real companies with real earnings. also did you know on the weekend that was the fourth anniversary of the covid-19 low for the market? tough time. a lot of people were bailing out of the markets. i'm sorry, let me show you this one chart first this is valuation. again if you're thinking to the compare to 2000, keeping you back from the tech stocks. most recent bubble peak was 43 times. dot-com peak was 52 times. we're only 28 times now. really this market has a lot more to go potentially on the tech side, a lot more to go. let me get back to what was talking about here. this is the fourth year

anniversary. over the weekend covid-19. remember how dismal it was? it was really bad. it was the sharpest bear market in history. it felt like a bad time. we were facing this unknown problem. anyway the market bounced back really strong. in fact here is the most amazing thing. not only did it bounce back from that, remember in 2022, we also had another pullback. my first guest says we endured three bear markets in three years, so maybe there is a lot more room to the upside. former cis for wells fargo and leuthold group, jim paulsen. look at you, you're doing great. semi retirement is doing you pretty well. i got to talk try that. what are your thoughts for people who really still anter sure? >> well i think there is on really good things around this. i think it is more a sustainable secular bull than a short-lived

event. we're a little over one year into a new bull if you think about it, charles. you mentioned we had a bear market in 2022. we had a 20%er in 2018. 34% in 2020. 46% in 2022. really rare to have three bears in that short period of time. i think you have a lead up to a market that is bubblicious or overdone. the s&p right now, 9% higher than it first was 27 months ago? it hasn't really been on fire. i think there are some good things here. i think we have a cultural mindsets, i don't mean investor sentiment, that ebbs and flows. things like consumer confidence, small business sentiment, even ceo confidence index they're all still pretty low, pretty modest, pretty cautious. which is a good thing. if you improve cultural mindsets it will run right through stocks.

also think we have a lot of money on the sideline sitting in safe haven assets. retail sector, they are 8 1/2% of disposable personal income. that is all-time record high. charles: right. >> they're feeling good about 5.5% returns. if it keeps going up some of that will come in. charles: there is no doubt about that, i'm sorry, i'm on of the same page as you. i want to delve into something you note for today, that the fed made history twice. it is pretty incredible. because this feels like a new fed. i don't know if it is a new paradigm for the fed but this feels like a fed that is creating its own rules. >> it is. if i look back to 19, postwar history, charles, a chart of inflation rate and i looked at all the periods where inflation went up and almost every time when the inflation rate goes up the fed is raising rates consistent with it, when it goes down they cut-rates consistent

with it. this fed did exactly the opposite of that. when the inflation rate went from 1% to 9%, the fed was, held the funds rate at zero the whole time until it got to 8 1/2%, only right at the end. when it went down, it raised rates the whole time. we've never seen that in postwar history where the fed is easing during inflation and tightening during disinflations which puts them into a whole new unique atmosphere of what they're there are trying to do with monetary policy. i think though what is interesting to me, if you have a fed that goes off and does completely different than we have before, both on the way up and down with inflation you would think we have all kinds of issues but the reality is we haven't. >> yeah. >> we brought inflation down without the fed. sustainable advance, productivity, employment, profits coming back. i don't know, the fed seems more and more irrelevant to me than relevant. one more point i'd make if

you're waiting on bated breath for when the fed's going to cut rates i'd say, i don't know if it is important. since the fed has raised rates from essentially cerio to five 1/2, the s&p is up 25%. i don't know if they have mattered. charles: yeah. you know what? it feels like that way more and more which i think would be a good thing. i'm so tired of a market, you know, the tail wagging the dog so to speak. jim, good to have you back. you look great. we still learn every time you come on the show. we appreciate it. >> thanks for having me so much, charles. thank you. charles: hey, folks, a lot of stock news today. ironically enough they all kind of fit cost currents from recent ideas from my next guest. rob luna, luna wealth academy founder. rob, amazing looking at all the headlines, i'm thinking but. let's go through with them. china brocking amd and intel chips from the government hardware. there is a chip war going on. according to one firm,

$1.5 billion hit to intel. does this change the value proposition of semis in general or these two companies specifically? >> i don't think so. specific companies. intel is a name i have not talked about in 20 years. taiwan semiconductor, samsung, those are the winners to this. i don't think you need to think about it much more than that. charles: what about amd, they were nipping at heels, or feels like they were the ones nipping at the heels of nvidia. does that change anything from them. >> if you look at nvidia, which it is really not today, that could present an opportunity, way better position than intel. amd would be the one i buy if it gets hurt from this. charles: by the way we will point out taiwan semi is a name you mentioned before. it has been on fire and you say bottom line, stick with taiwan semi? >> yeah. stick with that one. that's the winner. charles: now you do a lot of work in the real estate area, right? >> yeah. charles: there is still confusion about the nar settlement. believe me i get heat every time

i mentioned this. president biden talked about it, he is browbeating agents to lower commissions. take a listen to this. president biden: last week the national association of realtors agreed for the first time that americans can negotiate lower commissions when they buy or sell their home. i'm calling on realtors to follow through on the lowering commissions to protect homebuyers. charles: it is 100% obvious that he has no clue what's going on here but he took the opportunity to browbeat someone else into lowering their commissions. i mean you're in the real estate business, too, among other things. >> yeah. charles: the more i talk to the buying, buyer's agent right, i think they're the focal point. seller's agents not so much in my mind. to me the buyer's agents are ones getting the shaft public imagewise everywhere else. we saw redfin on friday they will redo their structure, their commission structure but where do you see this taking the industry? >> i think this is much bigger deal than most people realize,

charles. real estate is 20% of gdp so this is a big issue. if you look at the industry of wealth management, asset management, in the '90s, 250 bucks to buy 100 shares of microsoft this is an industry ripe for disruption. it hasn't happened. i'm one of the biggest free market capitalists out there. just because it is the private sector, just because it is sro, like the national association of realtors doesn't mean they have been playing fair. the truth is they haven't. this is opportunity for pricing to change, val to change. realrealtores that provide value do a good job will do great. ones that just show up to a house, earn 6% commission, those daves are over. it will change significantly. charles: draftkings is a name you gave us last month. ohtani is embroiled in the massive gambling schedule. we'll see how it shakes out. a lot of people with worried about the role of gambling particularly in baseball because of the history of baseball. are you okay still holding

draftkings and those kind of names? >> yeah. i don't think this is a pete rose moment. i think ohtani has 700 million reasons not to be too involved with this. i think there was some allegations of theft there. i think this does nothing to the stock. this is becoming a bigger part of society. if you're looking at a long-term play i think draftkings does well. you can see it today, it is actually trading up. charles: it is. toyota motors ceo this is in 2022. he pushed back against evs. they pushed back against him. he held his ground. this is a stock taking off and you still like it. rob, we're out of time. thanks a lot. we covered a lot. appreciate it. >> thanks, charles. charles: hey, my next guest sees opportunities outside of the stock market. you pay attention because when dennis gartman talks about anything heavy, that drops on your foot can make you money no one is better. dennis gartman up next. ♪.

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when i was your age, we never had anything like this. what? wifi? wifi that works all over the house, even the basement. the basement. so i can finally throw that party... and invite shannon barnes. dream do come true. xfinity gives you reliable wifi with wall-to-wall coverage on all your devices, even when everyone is online. maybe we'll even get married one day. i wonder what i will be doing? probably still living here with mom and dad. fast reliable speeds right where you need them. that's wall-to-wall wifi on the xfinity 10g network. ♪. charles: so lately there has been increased excitement over commodities, especially industrial commodities. era of big government spending projects, right?

right now copper demand, really think about this even before all of this, 50 million tons by 2035, 53 million-tons by 2050. a major source of that demand will come from these clean energy projects, evs, bat i ares, wind projects, solar. the copper rally has begun sort of stealth think. sort of stalling a little bit. we hit a perfect double top. we pulled back. feels like this rally is will eventually make a big move. how big? let's bring in our next guest, university of akron endowment committee chair, former publisher of "the gartman letter," dennis gartman. dennis, anytime commodities start to catch fire there is only one person to bring on, that's you. you're the best on this. you earned that reputation over the years. it feels weird no one talked about commodities a lot. what is starting percolate here.

>> they should percolate. copper is a phd of economics. i say master of economics. phd with copper, plus aggregated tin, aluminum, zinc all the metals turned from the lower left to the upper right indicative of higher economic growth. as long as those continue to move from the lower left to the upper right i think economic activity will be stronger. as you just said, evs especially, the increase in the demand on, from computer technology going to drive electricity demands off the course of the next 10 and 15 years, copper prices want to go hire. we're at four dollars per pound. i think we go"the five" 1/2, over the course of next three or four years. it will be slow. not as exciting as we've seen in cocoa last couple weeks. i think it moves strongly from the lower left left to the upper right i think demand will continue for some time. charles: the cocoa thing, what

is that all about? >> it is all about el nino creating a drought in west africa. you destroyed the crops in ghana and cote and it is really a problem of supply which basically has been constricted dramatically. it could go anywhere. it is become almost egregious at one point, tripling in the course of the past month 1/2. it is going to cause problems for chocolate lovers around the world for the next two or three years. you don't replace coco plant quickly. it is not like replacing corn or soybeans or wheat t takes years to replace coco plants. charles: gold breaking out. a lot of gold bugs are excited. i think this is the real deal. >> i think it is the real deal. important to understand going up no question with retail demand but also central bank demand. the chinese have been extremely aggressive buyers. russians have been buyers for

some time. the gld, gold etf broke above 195 i think is important. gold at right near $2200 an ounce. i think it goes to 2500 or $3,000 an ounce over the next course of few years. charles: wow. >> buy things going from lower left to the upper right. avoid things going from the upper left to the lower right. charles: i have 30 seconds. one of the things you're famous for, 22 rules of trading give me one, one right now if you can that people should be paying most attention. >> buy things that are going up. charles: [laughter] >> that is the thing that is most important. add to winning trades. if you buy something at 10 it goes to 15. buy more. if it goes to 20, by more. if it goes 25 buy more. if you buy something 15 goes to 10. you're wrong, that simple. with h will always be rule number un. but things which is working. buy less of that which is not. charles: dennis i love that so

much. 99% of people want to average down or pick the bottom. >> yes. charles: instead of averaging up. the winning trades, there is something beneath there, there is something fundamental driving it, why ignore it? dennis gartman you're a legend. i appreciate your time. >> thank you for having me on, charles. good to see you again. be well. charles: we had the powell pivot, the cautious powell and now the trigger finger powell. oh, boy, which iteration of the fed chair do we see next. what does it mean for your portfolio? we have two of the very best. we'll try to hash this out. we'll trying to figure it out. we'll be right back. ♪. okay y'all we got ten orders coming in... big orders! starting a business is never easy, but starting it eight months pregnant... that's a different story. i couldn't slow down. we were starting a business from the ground up. people were showing up left and right. and so did our business needs the chase ink card made it easy.

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♪. charles: folks, federal reserve still in focus with this new iteration of jay powell. i'm calling him itchy trigger finger powell. gerri willis is here to explain. >> reporter: charles, that's right. last october it was pivot powell. early march it was cautious powell. what do we have last week? trigger finger powell, the new narrative that powell wants to save the labor market even if it means stoking inflation. well that is the exact opposite of rate hiking cycle which the goal has been to crush inflation by any means necessary, even if it means millions in jobs losses. now making the matter more

complicated is the spike in immigration which adds to gdp but low-skilled workers mean slower productivity and slower wage growth. you see that in comments with goldman sachs, morgan stanley everybody is weighing on this. there is the notion that the team is not on the same page. bostick sees one rate cut. the federal reserve governor safes the central bank must take a cautious approach. so not everybody is on the same page here. there are other wild card, consumer excess savings, gone. there are signs that spending is losing steam. look, fiscal spending is also an issue for fed policy and bond yields right now. the treasury is issuing a ton of bills in part to hold down yields but it is very expensive for taxpayers. charles, back to you. charles: gerri, thank you very, very much. now the title of my next guest's most recent note was we can have nice things. let's bring in macro policy perspectives founder and president, julia coronado.

so after that fed meeting and presser, julia, the title of my nolt was, up in smoke, what the fed was doing behind closed doors and their credibility. feels like a lot of contradictions but you seem like you like it? >> yeah, i think that the, the fed weighed in with the vote of optimism in terms of the growth potential we're seeing, that you just touched on with stronger immigration, better productivity numbers, have given us a slightly faster speed limit that is non-inflationary. the fed raised its gdp forecast to our gdp forecast, thank you very much, 2.1% for the year and they nudged up their inflation forecast but not very much so they are sort of weighing in on what we've seen enough leading indicators that suggest that maybe this cycle is going to be a little bit better in terms of the tradeoffs and, i think trigger, trigger happy is a little too strong. charles: okay. >> you have to --

charles: itchy trigger finger. it doesn't really roll off the tongue. >> between now and june they will have several more months of data. it has to corroborate the story. inflation has to keep coming down. charles: right. >> and the labor market, you know, can't fall off a cliff or reaccelerate. so if we stay in this zone, yes we get a judicious, gradual sequence of rate cuts. charles: so here's the thing though, here's the thing, the headline though suggesting that powell and company may have to come to the rescue of the jobs market which has been extraordinarily strong even with that .2 of a percent jump no one expected in the unemployment rate. i feel like the fix was in. powell said two or three times there may be unexpected event, development in the labor force. what is he seeing? what does he know and why all of a sudden is the jobs part of the dual mandate more important than the inflation part? >> i think they're not -- okay, let's start with the second one

first. it is not just more important. it is just more on par because we've seen so much progress on inflation. when we were at 6% core inflation they were willing to hammer the job market. now that we're down with a two handle on core inflation, they can afford to have some better balance. in terms of what he's seeing, again, the jobs numbers have remained solid, claims remain very low but some of the survey indicators like the ism non-manufacturing survey which represents the bulk of the labor market has been in contractionary territory for three months on average. some of the earnings reports, we do a careful scraping of earnings reports and companies are reporting reduced hiring intentions, increased layoff intentions. charles: right. >> again we haven't seen it yet in the data and he was careful to say, we don't see any cracks yet but, there are some leading indicators that suggest that the risks are tilting toward as

softer employment situation. charles: so before i let you go i've got less than a minute to go, sticky inflation versus sticking the landing, which one are you going with? >> right. sticking the landing. i think, you know, again we're kind of optimistic on both. we do have them having their cake and eating it too with inflation continuing to trend down and they have got policy space to insure that the job market stays on track. charles: julia, you're great. i appreciate it. thank you very much. appreciate your optimism as well. my next guest recently tweeted that bumpy is the new transitory at the fed. joining me now merck investment ceo, cio, axel merk. great having you in studio. >> great. charles: bumpy is the new transitory. you heard what julia had to say, what do you think? i feel like some of these folks are just too optimistic. i don't know what they see. i go, i go with the data. i also listen to corporations. i saw on friday with lululemon,

nike, a whole bunch of these other companies, they're saying something about an economy that the fed is not seeing. >> julia was very kind to the fed. ultimately the fed was petrified about the repeat of the '70s. last october powell decided that's not going to happen and so now we can ease. but ultimately they're cooking with salt. i don't think they know anything more than we do looking at these data and so they have their own confirmation bias and they would love to ease but ultimately they will just wait and the reason why we pay attention to all of this because they own the bazooka wouldn't it be nice if we wouldn't rook look at utterances of fed official. we have the great inflation of the '70s, great inflation now and we still allow him have the bazooka to do the subtle things they do even though their approach appears a bit flawed. charles: not only do we awe how them to have the bazooka we enhances it. >> the government.

charles: every time, give them a laser scope on that bazooka. they put the fed out there, road show, with the central bank, they promised end of these crazy cycles, business cycles that ended in panics. to your point that hasn't happened. the term credibility comes up but i don't know how we use that with the federal reserve. >> that you can see in the bond market. part of the reason the market trusts the fed because they own the bazooka and so forth, right? charles: trust or fear? >> well, control. charles: control okay. >> that said the federal reserve is adding volatility to markets. it is not helpful to go zig and zag and what not. they should just have a reaction function as the federal reserve calls it right? we don't have that. instead it is the mood of the federal reserve. we focus more on that. part of that is that we have incentives in the system for

more inflation. the amazing deficits we have, if we don't raise taxes well the federal reserve has to finance them somehow. charles: right. >> if not, at least there is the bias and unemployment mandate of course pushes that mandate front and center. ultimately, we as consumers are paying the price for that. charles: having said that, do you model, do you have an idea what you think we'll see for the rest of the year or is it inconsequential? >> i bet on the consumer. as you pointed out the consumer is struggling a bit. charles: right. >> delinquency rates are going up. 2/3 of the economy are the consumer. i'm of the camp the economy will be worse than expected. i don't have a crystal ball. markets are pricing in a wonderful world. my own side i think what could possibly going on. i think odds of something going wrong are significant enough to take account for it. charles: talk about gold for a moment. gold breaking out here. it really feels like it's been a

long time coming. you own a lot of gold. you manage a lot of money. you guys have a lot invested in gold. where do you see it going from here? i pretty sure dennis gartman saying 3,000. >> that is concern. he is a contrarian indicator. i love dennis. i love dennis but that is not some strong -- we manage over a billion in gold and gold mining and central banks have been a big buyer as dennis pointed out absolutely. the diversification buyer has been around. in 2022 that didn't work so much. that works reasonably well. the fellow concerned about the purchasing power of the dollar is in there. the one buyer we haven't seen much is the speculator. those guys on meme stocks, they will come if there is really big trend. that is how we have dennis gartman scenario. i think that will be a get. i like it. the speculator tends to distort things but, that can happen in the gold market. charles: gold stocks, i have a gold stock, that has been a piece of junk. why do they trail gold so much, you know, the movement in gold

and the gold stocks don't react? >> the senior companies have accumulated so much cash, have underinvested so they have less leverage to the price of gold. on the junior end where we're active they are in some ways also credit plays because they have periodic need for financing. ever since last october the federal reserve pivoted they denned to do better. the gold does really well when the economy doesn't do well. in hard landing people are looking for diversification. as long as soft landing there the gold miners will do okay but not as well if the economy really tanked. >> great having you in. >> all right. >> charles. charles: market short interest has been falling. it is down so much it has people worried. that's right, sometimes you need someone squeezed. we'll ask gary k. next. ♪.

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on. beneath the gyration is also rotation coming on. in fact coming into today's session, what is really amazing, stocks above their 200-day moving average. three months ago we were at 72. we're almost 80 now. every single sector except two have gone up. ironically what has gone down is communications services. that's the hottest sector, right? that is the sector with nvidias and everything. not the nvidias, some of the other a.i. stuff. that has gone down, not surprisingly real estate has gone down as well. last week we saw, really, again, rotation everywhere. large cap growth still number one but look at this, small cap value up 2.2% last week. for the year, it is almost breaking even. let's bring in kaltbaum capital management president, fox business contributor gary kaltbaum. gary, last week we saw factors. everything did pretty well. one of those things we started out with a.i. woodstock. but i mean there was really good

rotation including small cap value. do you like to see this kind of move where the buying seems to be spreading out everywhere? >> bullish phases are made of positive rotation and that means if a certain area gets too extended it pulls back and money flows into other areas that start to come on. seen it in oils and copper and gold and some of these other areas recently. building construction and things like that. so so far so good. my biggest complaint actually is the nasdaq, that underneath the surface breadth and advance declines have been heading south while the nasdaq is just fine because of quite the few flames that are just big and strong and you know which ones they are. charles: right. hey, by the way i pulled up a nasdaq chart to show the audience. i put a few indicators. relative strength starting to just sort of go down a little bit, right? you got accumulation, distribution, that is flatting out. when it flat ins out in the past it comes down.

adx, the adx line is down big. in the past we've seen it down. we've seen this come down. to your point it feels like the foundation is starting to weaken a little bit. where is the key support number, if i'm long a lot of nasdaq stocks that may be a red flag? >> by the way that bottom of the chart is exactly what i'm talking about. 15,800 on the nasdaq but more importantly 4600 on semiconductors. if both of those are taken out, that means nvidia is getting in trouble, broadcom is getting in trouble and some others but so far so go. march 8 we had the vicious reversal. nvidia is pretty much ignoring it right now, others aren't. again i'm a big believer you need everything working or most everything. so i'm watching the advance declines closely. i can tell you flat-out, software, a bunch of names have gone by the wayside. i will stay concentrated. i hope it continues. >> again, folks, 1580 also

happens to be the 50-day moving average. 15,800. below there, maybe you look at the 200-day moving average. so right, i'm hoping, gary everyone is riding this down because i think this stuff is important. this is something else that caught my eye. this is short interest as a percentage of outstanding stocks. russ equities, qqqs. you know, is this contrarian to a degree no one is short anymore that the shorts have thrown in the towel? >> when you see extreme numbers on shorting, nobody is shorting, when you see extreme numbers on sentiment and it's very complacent out there it gives the market a chance to get in trouble. doesn't mean it is going to. it is not a pinpoint indicator. just put it in the file manager. i can tell you a bull market's best friend is a lot of short sellers. a bull market's best friend for certain stocks is a lot of short sellers. so the fact that really short selling is down, it's something to watch closely but so far so

good and i can tell you since november the s&p 500 is just, you can draw a nice little line along the, not even the 50-day moving average but the stronger 21-day, and it just refuses to break it and as long as it stays above it, you stick with it. if it starts breaking below you have to start thinking about it but i have to tell you so far so good and pretty much stunning we really haven't had any scare which markets usually do sometimes is scare people on s&p. it hasn't happened. >> folks, ride the wave. don't try to guess when it is going to happen. >> yeah. charles: gary, good stuff, appreciate it. >> thanks, charles. >> all right, folks, don't forget i'm hosting "unbreakable investor," this is our next townhall, wednesday, april 24th @2:00 p.m. eastern. join us here live in studio. the last two were standing room only. it is an absolute blast. wait until you see what we're drawing for you. you will love it. to join me, go to

eventbrite.com. you search for charles payne. get your free ticket right now. i will see you real soon. so wall street's rap sheet a whole lot longer than donald trump's, so what's up with the fine, even the reduced fine? what about lawfare in the modern era? tom fitton is here to break it all down next. ♪. hello, ghostbusters. it's doug. we help people customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. we got a bit of a situation. [ metal groans] sure, i can hold. ♪ liberty liberty liberty liberty ♪ in theaters now. ♪(relaxing music)♪ (♪) (♪) (♪) (♪) (♪)

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part-time courtroom and began calling himself the only law west of the pecos. relying on a single law book, 1879 edition of rules from texas. anytime anything new came out he would throw it in the fire. would not allow hung juries or jurors. his jurors were chosen from the best customers at the bar. if you were in a juror, you were expected to buy drinks at eses. that was the law. take tammany hall in new york city, folks learned the hard way you can't fight sy hall. boss tweed, shook down people, amassed a multimillion-dollar fortune in the 1870s. some think nonstop fines of big businesses is form of coercion nothing to do with justice. of all of that many people believe the book of justice has more insidious chapter being rewritten. lawfare and targeting of former president donald trump. joining me "judicial watch" president, tom fitton. tom, i want to bring with the

major development we saw earlier today, the new york appeals court reducing the 464 million-dollar judgment to 175 million. given president trump 10 additional days to post bond. your thought the on that? >> it is well past due it happened. a major blow to letitia james and the other democrat politician judge engoron who had a nearly half billion dollar levy him to pay up in order to appeal this unprecedented decision to try to seize his assets and destroy his company. frankly i think 175 is too much but obviously trump can handle it but it's an indication even the machine in new york can be checked if you have an honest judge or two. let's see how much further they go. on the other hand you have proceeding, this sham prosecution by the soros-backed prosecutor alvin bragg, another democratic politician. the challenge in new york, it is not just the prosecutors who are

elected, a lot of judged are elected, or selected most directly by the democratic machine up there. of course in my view they're all dancing to the tune of the biden administration. charles: right. >> whether it be full ton count, here in d.c. or up in new york city i have never seen anything like this in american history. we should be concerned when a presidential candidate is being abused like this. this to me is human rights violation the way trump has been abused over the last several years by, first the deep state and now the biden administration and their democratic allies. charles: it is really amazing someone could run for office, say i'm running for office, to actually go after this particular individual who i don't have any proof of breaking any laws but we're going after him. president trump also tweeting on truth social about judge engoron, refusing to obey the decision by the appellate decision relative to the statute of limitations. you know, i have seen president biden sort of ignore the supreme

court as much as he can on the student loan thing. you have got this tweet about ignoring the appellate division. i'm concerned about this, the pillar, greatest pillars of strength in our nation, that's our judicial system. i mean this lawfare is not just lawfare but it is even taking down, or ignoring certain truth like the supreme court we had in place forever. >> biden is the catch me if you can governance, if the supreme court steps in he will stop and push again. this is all toll picks to too many politicians when it comes to the rule of law. up in new york, what might the business community be thinking here? is it just limited to trump? you remember the governor was a saying oh, no, this was about trump, confirming it was an anti-trump operation. then letitia james sued the

largest meat maker or meat producer in the country for pursuing crazed theory of emissions tied to the company. so it is all about politics up there. there is anti-trump animus. you can be sure letitia james is raising a lot of money because of this anti-trump activity. she doesn't have. she obviously has her eyes set on higher office. other word attorney generals will start engaged in political prosecutions in ways we have never seen before in this country. charles: it feels like what you can't get the public to vote for now, you will force through this sort of lawfare or heavy-handedness. i wanted to point out to the audience, 464 million, in the last two years, you have wells fargo, fined two billion for autobuses abusing 16 million beam people no victims, no one complained seems like a lot. all these firms, wall street firms, 120 million for mistreating women worked for

them. 140 million for mistreating their customers. these are actual victims who had smaller fines. it just feels egregious to your point? i hope it backfires. this is not what america was built on. tom, thank you very much, appreciate it. >> you're welcome, charles, thank you. charles: folks, earlierwer had somebody talking about chocolate prices, wherever you go you probably notice the price has gone up on everything. i got it he will tell you something, something that will continue to happen. take a look at this, this is choke late demand out there. those who haven't paid attention. the price of cocoa gone to 9600. earlier today i spoke, with earlier in the show rather we spoke with dennis gartman. he talked about the weather and some of the other shortages but there is another part of this, sabre-rattling and rules in the eu, they actually put out there for climate. west african growers have to prove these cocoa plants or the production wasn't on land subject to deforestation. this is tough to do.

what it means these countries will make less money. they will produce fewers products. my mind just unfortunate, right? europe is bullying africa. they will not get a lot of these things. the sort of climate agenda. it already ruined europe to the point where it will never be a global power i don't think again. you will america versus asia to the next 100 years. i hate to see them using, these other countries that need the stock market alert, socks giving a mixed picture the nasdaq punched into green by about 11 points. the s&p six, the dow down about 141. we got t