warning said they can attack the u.s. in six months. is that accurate? >> they always try to give an estimate of that because they're not real sure what the planning framework is. they don't want to be too precise. and so that's a signal to our intelligence community and our allies to really watch this carefully. and, you know, we have somehow got to watch more carefully for terrorists at the southern border given the range of different nationalities we see coming across every day. lauren: the world is a mess no matter where you look as our segment just covered. it's, it's really troubling. rebecca grant, thank you so much for the time. we do appreciate it. >> thank you. rawrp a lauren and thank you, everybody, for joining us. with that, i'm going to send it over to kelly o'grady. she is in for liz claman. kelly? kelly: lauren, you have been working all day today, so happy easter. go enjoy your friday. good to see you. [laughter] thanks, everyone, i'm kelly o'grady in for liz claman and,

while the markets are closed in observance of good friday, the first quarter has officially come to a close and all three majors, you can see right from the, are -- right there -- right there, are headed into the second quarter with gains. investors were given an easter basket of inflation data and comments from fed chair powell today. the commerce department delivered the fed's favored uninflation gauge this morning, the pce, month over month it actually came in slightly lore at 0.3% versus the 0.4 estimate with the annual picture matching estimates at 2.5%. and while wall street is off today, jerome powell and myself, we're still on the clock. the federal reserve chair spoke at a san francisco fed conference this morning and gave his reaction to the pce data. >> my first thought was that the throort a came out this morning is pretty much in line with our expectations. so core pce, as you mentioned,

is at 2.88% on a 12-month basis, headline at 2.5% that's what a we were expecting, and it's good to see something coming in in line with expectations. kelly: as we close out march and charge full speed ahead into the second quarter with earnings season around the corner, how should investors gear up? if well, let's get right to the floor show. joining me right now is research president tom essay and she e terra investment cio gene goldman. gentlemen, thank you so much, both, for being here. gene, i want to start with you, okay? so i want to get your reaction to the pce data. january was revised up, not the best sign in the world, but you zoom out even further, we're seeing a lot of bumpiness in this fight against flakes. we're also seeing commodity prices rise significantly over the last six months. that tends to be the canary in thing coal mine that you could see inflation tick back up. what's your read on what's happening? >> first of all, kelly, thanks

for having me back on your show. so the pce number came in lore than expectations, especially core pce. i think if i'm jay powell, i'm breathing a sigh of relief. i am clicking my heels and accelerating because, think about this, there's all these concerns about a january and february cpi and ppi coming in a little bit higher than expected. but and we, we kept saying to our clients and to our advisors those were anomalies. and if you look at the data today, the pce, it shows they were anomalies. housing costs came down lore. if we go back to january, cpi came in well above expectations driven by rent are. but if you look at cpe today though, a lot of that got reversed in terms of housing inflation. we feel really good about this number and, again, if you're jay powell, you're saying, mission accomplishedded. inflation is rolling over, it's slowing down, and the economy's proving to be very resilient. taken together, soft landing is in play and, again or or mission accomplished by the fed. kelly: well, that's certainly what wall street wants to see.

you know, tom, i want to get your take on some of the other economic data that we had coming in today. so consumer spending rose significantly more than expected. it was 0.8% versus 0.5%. personal income though came in weaker at a 0.3% v. us 0.4%. so, basically, you've got your prices increasing, consumers are spending more, but the income isn't increasing at that same rate. so what does that tell you about rate cut timing? >> well, i think what it tells you is that, essentially, inflation is starting to bite, as a it always does, over the longer term. in the beginning of inflation everybody gets kind of happy, right in it's sort of virtuous because wages go up really fast, faster than prices. but the longer inflation stays around, wages stop going up and prices keep going up. and that's what we're a starting to see in the consumer spending and personal income data. now, that means the fed probably can cut rates in june, but my

concern is they may not be able to cut merely as much as the market has currently priced in. so if we only get one or two cuts this year, what does that mean for growth? i think that's the major question as we start the second quarterful it's not so much inflation. we know what that's doing. it's what happens to growth. kelly: and so, of course, we heard powell speak today, and he kind of indicated a little bit about where his mind might be on that. you know, i was very taken by something that he said. i want to read a you a quote. he said, quote, we don't need to be in a hurry i the cut. it meaning we can wait and become -- means we can wait and become more confident that inflation is coming down to 2 on a sustainable basis, right? we were talking about that bumpiness. so, gene, you're saying mission if accomplished. we didn't have the markets open to see how investors reacting to powell if's comments as we normally do. but read the tea leaves for me. how do you think it would have reacted hearing that that, hey, he may take his time? >> i think powell always has to

be very cautious in terms of his comments. again, he's a very balanced person, and he's looking for data, you know,ing heed and fete are very data-depend. but -- dependent. but you have to realize the last part's the toughest part, the so-called last mile. it takes 12-15 months for a rate hike to be fully felt by the economy. we know the lower-end households are being affected already in terms of higher interest rates, credit card borrowing. in some cases credit card interest rates are around 30%. this is going to impact the economy p. so the fed needs to be a little bit cautious in terms of going forward how will this affect lower income and overall economy. again, 12-15 months for a rate hike to be fully felt by the economy. it's coming. kelly: and, tomming i just want to ask you really quick because, of course, last year we're looking ahead to q2, everything was driven by the mag 7. we're starting to see a little bit more broadening out. the indices are going crazy. but the russell 2000, your small

caps, you're seeing it increase, but you're not seeing it go back to the record that we saw back in 2021. what are you expecting in q2 if we don't get a rate cut in junesome because that's really going to hit those small caps pretty hard. >> yeah, it will. small caps have lagged, and they've lagged appropriately. right? we all know that a high inflation and higher rates really hurt small companies the most,ing and we've seen that in their underperformance. i think also you're seeing some worry about the economy being expressed through small caps. i mean, right now your large cap equities, it's like they're made of teflon. nothing can steak. you get a bad news report -- stick, small caps, it's different. you're seeing definitely an ec dotal, but some small signs that the economy may be losing momentum. that has to change, right, in order for small caps to outperform in q2. we've got to see rate cuts and the belief that more are coming and also better than expected economic growth.

kelly: well, or it always comes back to rate cuts this year -- [laughter] that's how it seems. tom, or gene, thank you both for your time. have a great weekend. and so now we want to take a moment to acknowledge that one year ago today "the wall street journal" reporter evan gershkovich was detained on an allegation of espionage while on a reporting assignment in russia, charges which his employer, "the wall street journal," and the u.s. government have denied. alex hogan is live in london with the latest on how evan's year in confinement has been. hi, alex are. >> reporter: hi, kelly. again, it's been this grim milestone today. one year since american journalist e evan gershkovich was detained in russia, and president biden was just asked about this milestone. in response he said that he has done everything he can to get evan home and that he will not give up. his sister also spoke to fox today about what the family has been through in this past year saying they will continue to

push forward to tray to free evan. to try to free evan. >> we rook for signs that evan is okay and he's doing well. he has a lot of little mannerisms, and we just notice all of his expressions, his smiles. it's incredible, he's holding on and he's so strong. >> reporter: 32-year-old "wall street journal" reporter was arrested last year accused of being a spy, but there ab no evidence provided -- has been no evidence provided. the white house completely denies the claims calling him wrongfully detained. today "the wall street journal" posted an article describing everything that evan has missed and lost out on in the last year like weddings of friends from high school and college, simple day-to-day interactions, vacations, time with family, and instead he's spending 23 hours per day locked many a jail cell. he only gets one hour to be able to go out into a courtyard and stretch the his legs.

so it has been 12 months and still no court date even set at this point for his trial. and just this week a moscow court extended his sentence, he need to spend at least three more months, until june with, behind bars. kelly? kelly: well, this might be the one-year anniversary, but our hearts are with evan and his family each and every day. we continue to think of them. alex, thank you for that report. >> reporter: thank you. kelly: well, coming up, weight loss drugs cost patients hundreds of dollars a month, but according to a study from yale it costs a fraction of that to manufacture. now democratic senator bernie sanders is clamoring for ozempic maker novo nordisk to reduce the price of its drug. up next we talk to the ceo of a company that claims his drug tackles the food craving behind weight gain at an affordable price. "the claman countdown" coming right back. ♪ be rich? maybe rich is less about reaching a magic number...

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their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that's uncalled for. kelly: senator bernie sanders is calling out novo nordisk over the steep price tag of its popular weight loss drug, ozempic. sanders tweeted out, quote, there is no ration aal reason other than greed for novo nordisk to charge americans nearly $1,000 a month for ozempic when it costs are less than $5 to manufacture it and can be purchased in germany for just $59. novo must substantially reduce the price now. sanders was responding to a recent yale study that showed the drug could be manufactured for as low as 89 cents for a month's supply. take a look, novo nordisk produces ozempic for diabetes, wegovy for weight loss. ozempic costs $968.52 for a month's worth of injections and we dove any about $1,349.

our next guest produces a weight loss truck that he says only costs $99 per month and i could be even cheaper if you have health insurance. joining us now in a fox business exclusive is curex pharmaceutical's president and ceo george hampton. george, thanks so much for being with us today. >> hi, kelly. good to see you. kelly: okay. so just right off the bat, george, is bernie end sanders right? you know, are big pharmaceutical companies greedy and upcharging us? >> well, i think it's an old story. it gets a lot of headlines. the cost of pharmaceuticals really isn't just in the, in the cost of goods, right? we have the best regulatory the body in the world in the fda, and it costs a significant amount of money to work your way through the fda and the chin call trials are are designed to make sure we have safe and effective medication es for patients x. that's very, very expense i. so, yes with, on the other side of an amoved product, it is

expensive. ty a proved product to try and recoup those proses and reinvest in r&d. but i think that's kind of a story that's been told for a long time. kelly: so the study from yale, it comes out and shows that the cost to manufacture is penny ifs on the dollar, you know, as much as almost $5. and then you're selling it over in germany for $59, in the u.s., obviously, for much more. but i'm thinking through, okay, well, it costs so much to invest and to continue investing and expanding. but why such the price difference between something in europe and the u.s.? i know they have different regulation, but, you know, do you think that we're subsidizing it a little bit over here? >> again, it's a similar story to pretty much every medication, right? we, in america we do pay more for our medications and we do, i guess you used the wording subsidize, our products are more expensive in the u.s. than around the globe.

now, we have a product that is for weight loss, and we make it available for $99 a month to any patient. shipped right to their door. if things physician prescribes it. i don't know anywhere in the world where it's less than $99. kelly: so natural a follow-up, how can you make your product so affordable in comparison to these ones in the market and still make a profit? >> the issue here is really the access, right? so as a country, we are not covering obesity medications. and so, and that's at at the government level or the commercial level. and so you have to come up with really unique models to be able to get the product to the patient affordably because it's not on the insurance. lily came up with a program called lily direct. the it's a great program. i think they're the first large pharmaceutical company to move into that space. we've been doing something very similar for four and a half years, and so smaller companies, more private companies have had

to find ways to compete in a way where we can, you know, get product to patients at an affordable cost. kelly: so tell me more about contrave, because i know one of the things with to s semipick is the muscle loss and everything that comes along with that. one side effect is you lose weight, but all of a sudden you also have all these other issues. does contrave have a similar issue? >> side effects, every medication has them,, and that's why we have the fda a, to make sure we have safe, effective product, and all a of those are listed on the package inserts. and there's no head to head study between i'm going to say wegovy because that's their weight loss medication, ozempic is their type ii medication product. same active ingredient, just two different products. but, you know, so contrave more mihm ifics in the studies that we've done -- mimics -- diet and exercise. so even if you are losing weight through diet and exercise alone,

you do lose a certain amount of muscle mass and bone mass. cont the rave, you know, mimics very closely that same loss as diet and exercise. kelly: okay. no, that's a very good comparison with the we geoff wegovy -- wegovy versus ozempic. i have to ask you, george, we've seen this explosion in companies or in companieses like novo nor dising and the excitement, the appetite. you know, you were -- have been on the market since 2015. why haven't, why haven't we heard of contra a ve? why isn't contrave the we wegovy? >> well, i spent $12 million in marketing last year, right? we're a much smaller company. that doesn't say we're not growing. this wave you're talking about, our revenue is up 50% year-over-year, right? that's without taking a price increase at all. and so more and more people thanks to companies like eli

lilly, when eli lilly comes into a marketplace, they bring in, today bring in the services, they bring in disease state management, a lot of other things. it's now more acceptable to go to your physician and talk to them about treating obesity. that's part of the craze. cel yeah. the accessibility of that, i think, is an important point to underscore. and who knows, you know, contrave, potentially a good acquisitions target in the future. but that is for a different discussion in the future. thank you so much, george hampton, for your time today. appreciate you joining us. >> yep, really a pleasureful thanks, kelly. kelly: okay. well, the high price of chocolate may kill americans' cravings this she'ser -- easter. up next we go live to a chocolatier in new jersey to discuss what record cocoa prices mean for your easter basket. ♪ that's a different story. with the chase ink card, we got up and running in no time.

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well, you definitely do. those things aren't related, so... ah, yee! oh, that is a vibrating pain. ♪ ♪ kelly: this easter consumers will be paying more for chocolate eggs and bun ifnies. london cocoa futures topped a bittersweet $10,000 per metric ton on tuesday. joining us live live from morristown, new jersey, is madison alworth with the sweetest story of the day. hi, madison. >> reporter: hey, kelly. yeah, it definitely is the sweetest, and this shop has been packed all day with folks shopping for their easter

basket. but the bittersweet truth is that a chocolate, way up in price. since january we've seen a 133% increase in the cost of cocoa, and, of course, that's such a key ingredient for chocolate. no money knows that matter -- better than mark. you buy a little bit out, so you might not have seen those increases since january, but what are your suppliers telling you now? >> we are now going to be rationed and only buy certain quantities at a time, which has never happened before. and each time we go to buy more, we're getting an increase in the cost. >> reporter: okay. so the supply is tight. you're actually being rationed how much you can buy and also a, obviously, the cost, like you said. what is happening in west africa that is leading to this issue? >> what's happened is they've had multiple years of heavy rains which has caused a fungus to grow on the cocoa pods, and the end result has been approximately a one-third reduction in the yield that they get. and when you lose a third of your world supply or close to

your world supply, it's going to have a really big impact on the market. >> reporter: right. you guys have been packed all day long, at a certain point, you have to pass a off of a little to the customer. >> yeah. >> reporter: are we going to see price increases in the future? >> up to this point it's probably been about 10-15% if because of all the inflation their pressures and the minimum wage increases here in new jersey. but now with these increases in the actual cost the cocoa which is obviously a key component of chocolate, we're probably looking at at least another 15% before the end of the year. >> reporter: okay. mark, thank you so much. really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> reporter: so 10-15 already, another 15%, kelly, by tend of the year. that that means this easter bunny is going to be the cheapest you're going to get. so if you love chocolate, now's the time to buy, which is good news ahead of the easter holiday. back to you, kelly. kelly: i know liz loves chocolate, so i should definitely snag a bunny to leave on her desk. madison, thank you for that report. wow. rationing. something they've never done in the future -- rather, the past.

okay, well, we've got a fox business alert. of let's take aing look at some companies here. palantir is announcing that it's been selected by the u.s. defense information agency to deliver a specialized software. the program will provide the defense department with cutting-edge soft is ware to help analyze missions and provide the best course of action. the deal is worth $9.8 million over 12 months. and blackwell's a group is suing disney to force mouse house to hand over records about its relationship with -- [inaudible] disney's board. one of two firms attempting to put directors on the board. nelson pelt's trion group is the other. quote, the claims made with by blackwell's capital are base close, and this is a desperate attempt to gain with anticipation for their slate of director candidates. of course, that shareholder meeting comes next week, on april 3rd. all eyes will be on that vote. and hsbc upgrading two companies in the banking sector while

lowering its rating on a third. they raised their rating on usc and pnc, but they lowered bank of america from buy to hold. bofa a shares are up 30%, so hsbc sees little room for growth. apple suppliers e have started increasing production of the new ipad if tablet that will be up unveiled in may according to a bloomberg report. updated version of the ipad pro and ipad air are slated to be part of the are refresh according to sources with knowledge of the matter. and huawei reporting good news of their own, posting that net profits were more than double from a year ago. the tech giant reporting revenue of $12 billion. that is a jump of 140% from the same period last year. driven by higher sales of consumer electronics and cloud computing offerings. the smartphone if appears to have shrugged off the sanctions imposed in 2019 when the u.s. accused the firm of being a security risk. coming up, congestion pricing in new york city is set

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kelly: s&p global ratings downgraded its outlook on five regional banks from negative to a stable this week. first commonwealth, m&t bank, trust mark and valley national, were cut over their significant exposure to commercial real estate. s&p said any stresses in the cre sector are a threat to the performance of the five regional as, so so what does the state of commercial real estate look like right now? if joining me now in a fox fox business exclusive is cushman and wakefield chairman bruce

peltser. so fantastic to see you again, to have you on set. everyone's talking about, okay, commercial real estate. a couple months ago you had elon musk saying that anvil is going to drop. so i want to see in your own experience what are you seeing right now in cities like new york, in los angeles, in san francisco where with you have that footprint? if. >> yeah. first, i would say the following: when people talk about commercial real estate, i think we have to realize it's a highly segmented market. we are looking at at an office sector a severe bifur if case. well located product, top of transportation, near transportation is actually outperforming in many cases. secondary product, tertiary product is suffering. we have some ons recent product that we have to move through -- obsolete product. but, by and large, in cities like new york we are seeing a return to office. we know the numbers now at peak day 65%, we're seeing 65%

occupancy. that is way up over the baseline that we saw in the past. so that's very, very positive. corporate america's asking their senior executives to come back. that's incredibly important because the millennial and gen-z generation wants to be mentored. to be men to haved, you got to be in, and to innovate and create, you've got to be around your peers. kelly: well, i couldn't agree with that the piece more, and i think during the pandemic you saw these 22, 23-year-olds joining, and everyone was at home. there wasn't that community. but there also wasn't that-mentorship, that learning, that deep relationship that keeps do you at a company instead of just moving. you know, i was looking at your fourth quarter. you reported office demand remained negative for the eighth straight quarter. vacancy rate finished at 19.7% for an all-time high. do you think we've hit the market bottom? is it just all up from here? >> well, to say it's all up, i think e --

kelly: a dangerous thing. [laughter] >> let me just say this, i do think we have peaked for the following reason: new product that has been delivered, that has substantial leasing but is not 10 leased up -- 100 leased up is adding to that a vacancy. it's rolling up new product being delivered. we're peaking now at that number, and we do not expect to see much new if development in the next several years. i think we have seen what we've seen and to lift another building would be probably a significant event. so we have probably peaked. as a i said, demand is returning. last year we had 18 million feet of demand in new york city. that was a off the 10-year average. but the last quarter we had 5 million feet. that was a very good indicator, we think, of where things are going. look, as we start to see things, major macroeconomic issues, geopolitical issues, the fed cutting rates or at least saying they're no longer raising rates and intending to cut rates

perhaps if by 50 or 75 basis points, those are all very important trends that that i think give ceos confidence to move forward. so i think demand is going to increase this year, year-over-year. we are seeing a lot of big players in the marketplace right now looking for alternatives in the marketplace. that's positive as well. and let me just say this, in terms of those folks that a want to point to corporate real estate, yes, we're going to see some value destruction, we're going to see the valuation adjusted. you couldn't be at a borrowing rate that was next to zero forever. so as we get ahold of where the new fed fund rate normalizes as we see transparency in the market, i want to point this out to your viewers e, there's 400 billion of capital looking to invest in real estate, $250 billion in the u.s. the u.s. is a safe haven. so when we reach the new normal and capital will move, there's going to be some real opportunity and and real value creation. kelly: well, it does always seem to come back to rates and, of

course, we saw nycb, their exposure to commercial real estate. we all started thinking, oh, gosh, where are we going from here. so i do i think to your point, if rates do come down and you see these companies having to refinance, it'll be a lot better to do that at a lower rate. before i let you go though, i want to ask you about congestion pricing. so we're going to see this in new york city. it's going to go into effect. do you think this is going to impact people returning to the office? >> no. kelly: okay. [laughter] >> i think a solid no if. i think we need to separate the return to office. first, we know there's a hybrid workplace. we also know the hybrid workplace is shrinking, more people are returning. i just talked about peak days being back to 65%, that's against the bench mark of 75-80%. never was an office building 100% occupied. kelly: sure. >> so that return to work is going to continue. congestive pricing is something that new york is being, i think, not forced to, but new york has to experiment with.

we have to reinvest in the mass transportation system, the public transportation system is where most people utilize, come in every day. it needs reinvestment. i think that an awful lot of thought, an awful a lot of care was put into how to approach it. it's a tbd to see how successful it is, but we can say this, in other cities like london and hong kong it's had success, so we'll wait and see. but i am a believer that a we have to reinvest. the riders reinvest ifed, others have reinvested. the carveouts are very important. but nevertheless, important to invest. kelly: okay. well, bruce, i so appreciate your insights. all eyes are really on the sector, so it is great to get your take today. thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you for having me. kelly: okay. crypto kingpin sam bank ifman freed sentenced to 25 the years in jail what's next for him and where are bitcoin prices heading? find out next. ♪ ♪

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♪ ♪ kelly: well, sam bankman-fried learning his fate for stealing over $10 billion in customer funds. former crypto king was sentenced to 25 years behind bars yesterday. next up, he's going to learn

more about his new home. the judge recommended a low or medium security prison in the bay area given his notoriety and social awkwardness, those were the judge's words, not mine. a handful of facilities would afford bankman-fried the opportunity to take pilates, even learn calligraphy, and we can't forget about his vegan diet. the standard national prison menu includes everything from tofu fajitas to chick pea tacos. defense lawyers lamented that a bank minnesota freed was subsist ising only on bread. he has vowed to appeal that a sentence and conviction. some balked at a mere 25 years where others lamented it was too much for someone so young. he's 32 right now. let's check the price of bitcoin coming out of that sentencing news. it's sitting around $69,50 at this or hour. of course, that's below its all-time high of $73,800, still well above when ftx collapsed back in november 2022. so has the market put the ftx

fiasco behind it? let's bring in natalie brunell. natalie, thanks so much for being with us today, always good to see you. >> it's great to see you, kelly. thanks so muchful can. kelly: okay. so so right off the bat, i've got to get your reaction to the sbf sentencing. i've heard all sorts of, oh, it was too much, it was too little. what do you think, 25 years? >> look, i'm just glad the whole trial is behind us. i hope ftx customers get as much money back as possible, and honestly, i just hope people learn the very important lesson that bitcoin and crypto are very different, and i can't help but think that if sbf just had laser eyes and focused on bitcoin and avoided all the leverage and counterfeiting money through all coin, then he'd be enjoying a new all-time high instead of looking forward to prison in his 50sful. [laughter] kelly: yeah. he would be enjoying an all-time high, and actually that was one of the reasons why the judge said, yeah, you know, there's harm here. because customers are getting paid back, but they're getting paid back at november 2022

levels, and bitcoin, of course, 4x what it was back then. and so to that point, to we feel like the crypto winter behind us? you know, i think a lot of folks are wondering, okay, we're seeing the price run up. is that because of the bitcoin etf, or is it because those folks who didn't want to miss out are jumping back in, they're getting more comfortable? if. >> yeah, you know, it's been such a blessing to be able to stack at the lower prices because or we are back at these high levels, and this is the first time we've seen a new all-time high before a bitcoin halving in a cycle. so things could get very interesting especially because in previous cycles we would hit a new all-time high about 6-12 months after a halving. and with the consistently strong demand for those spot with bitcoin etf, you mentioned they're widely popular, i don't see how we don't hit six figures sometime soon unless we have some mass if i economic contraction on the macro side. but if we do, guess what they'll have to do? they're going to have to print, and every time they print,

they're the perfect marketing team for why we need bitcoin. kelly: we're coming up on an election year, and like you said, we could maybe see a six-figure number in the near future especially with that halving coming. but lots of focus from washington on regulating the space p on regulating crypto, looking at things like ftx even though that was really more average a variety fraud. what do you think can another four years of biden or trump looks like for bitcoin, for crypto? >> well, here's the thing, there is regulatory clarity around bitcoin. there is only regulatory uncertainty around the rest of crypto. and and i think a lot of people are disappointed by politicians in general on both sides who overpromise and underdeliver, all the while enriching themselves to the point of generational wealth while they opine how sad it is that we no longer have a middle class. and one of of the best things about bitcoin is it isen

inherently apolitical. it removes the power that comes with manager able to manipulate money and print limitless unit withs, and it really unchains capital from the prison of politics. so no matter who gets elected, i think bitcoin going to shine. kelly: ewell, certainly, that's something that a we're going to be curious to see about the candidates as they come out. before i let you go, i wanted to bring up etherium. larry fink says that he doesn't think it would have much bearing on an etf, a spot etf ai improvement what do you think? >> look, when i entered the space, i was confused. why are people saying bitcoin is so different, and i experimented, and then i really learned bitcoin is the only one that is truly decentralized, that's why it's the only one i've focused on. it is secured by the world's most powerful computing network. it is a commodity, not a security. it is a cyber fortress of encrypted energy whereas all the other tokens have made trade-offs in order to achieve more functionality or speed. billion there's manager called the blockchain trilemma, three prongs, they are

decentralization, security and scalability. and we have a saying, it's pick two because you can never have all three, and most of the other blockchains are optimized for scale. let's be faster than bitcoin. well, bit coyne is purposefully amount hissedded for security and decentralization which is why it's the only one that can serve as global money, and in layers, it achieves stale about -- scalability through the lightning network. i see it as mostly digital equity, none of which can complete as -- compete as global money. which is why we keep saying over and over again when it comes to money, there is no second best. kelly: natalie are, always good to get your insights. appreciate your time today. >> thanks for having me. kelly: okay. well well, "the claman count down's" interview with larry fink if made waves across the crypto serious. >> the -- crypto verse. >> the sec, there's lots of noise about them declaring ether a security which would take it out of the bitcoin category as a comotdty. >> i don't think that designation is going to be that

deleterious -- >> really in even if it's a security? you could start an eth etf? >> i think so, yeah. >> that's wild. liz: we've got a financial local motive. kelly: fink says ether's status as a security may not be detrimental to the approval of its etf, but securities lawyers say otherwise. let's get to charlie gasparino on this. >> i'm still blown away by the last guest. i thought maybe -- paid for that advertisement. [laughter] i mean, jesus, bitcoin this -- the only wunsch it's -- we should point out that you still can't buy a slice of pizza a with bitcoin. well, maybe you can -- kelly: some places you can. >> yeah, like, in the middle of -- i don't know, i still haven't found the place. kelly: silicon valley, you can. >> well, let's all move to sill silicon valley with our bitcoin. [laughter] kelly: and the crime. >> and the crime. and the other thing is sam bankman-fried is not positive for bitcoin. sam bankman-fried if committed a bernie may off, i mean, i guess i'm too olding to be on tv

anymore. he did, what, about 3,000 people, other people have done in the last 20 years and ripped people off. it has nothing to do with bitcoin. in any event, i'll leaf that as it may, let's go to ether and whether ether can be declared a, will be declared a security and whether it matters if it's declared a security for being an etf. and, you know, larry fink is a already smart guy, and i've known him for years. we had him on the show. i asked him point-blank that a question. but, you know, larry, you know, operates at 40,000 feet. i mean, he's the ceo of the largest asset manager. when you talk about people that actually do security law every day, here's what they tell me. if gary gensler makes eth a security, it would be almost impossible for them to make this an etf. and the simple reason why is because, you know, etherium, the etherium foundation, the people that control eth theoretically and the blockchain that trades it e, they would have to -- they

would argue a and they can't make something that is largely decentralized. and it is largely decentralized. now, it might not have been when they started. it can't go back in time. and so the exchanges won't approve it, and probably the commission won't approve it. it won't happen. and so i think what we're likely to have right now, for better or worse, is one etf. and it's probably -- at least according to the securities lawyers i speak to, it's going to be bitcoin. and now, you know, whether crypto rises or falls on bitcoin is another, is another aspect of it, you know? is the bitcoin, is the blockchain, which is the bitcoin, i guess, transfer network -- kelly: right. >> -- is that, i mean, is that good enough right now? are people buying homes on it? is it working? i'll e tell you, i don't know many -- i know a lot of rich people, i don't know anybody that buys stuff on that thing. this is still a very niche business. and i think one of the problems with this sort of grandiose predictions that your prior

guest made is that unless -- it seems like the coins themselves have been sort of divorced from the technology. until the coins and the technology merge if in some significant fashion, you're always going to have the overhang of whether this stuff is worth, you know, and you're always going to have the sort of potential that's even more sort of, much more of a existential threat than another sam bankman if freed coming that that bitcoin hits another winter because there's not, there's a lack of utility for it. and i think that's one of the problems that the crypto enthusiasts, and they gloss over it all the time. and if you notice one other thing, and i hate to be an old-timer boomer -- [laughter] you know, they use, or they'll use any positive. they'll use the fact that sam bankman-fried got 25 years in jail for essentially ripping off people because with he was trading another crypto, ftx mainly, and losing money in a a subsidiary hedge fund. they will use that as saying,

ah, buy bitcoin, it's great. kelly: right. >> anyway with, if i'm the average person, i'd be real careful at all this stuff. this is nosebleed level. that said is, larry does make a case, and he made it with me and liz the other day, larry e fink, that increasingly it's hard to put the genie back in the bot with. kelly: oh, it always is. >> something people get smacked around again and the markets implode. anyway, that's my two cents. kelly: charlie, appreciate you being with us today. okay. well, monday kicks off the second quarter, and investors will be just one month if away from the fomc's next interest rate-setting meeting. joining us now with $11.5 billion in assets under management -- 1.5, is nancy -- [inaudible] nancy, so great to get you on today because i'm really curious about your take on energy. one of the sectors that is going gangbusters right now on the s&p 500. of course, last year, right, the all about big tech. where do you see energy going in

q2? >> well, it really depends on what the geopolitical scene looks like. we do have some things going on. we have wars on every front, and that does affect energy prices. and if you had noticed from october on, it had been extremely volatile. it went up for a while and then down, and now it's back up. but i i i think it's more important to note that the market has broadened a little bit. it's not just all about tech anymore. which is nice to see, you know? it's all always unnerving when only a handful of stocks d. kelly: oh, of course. >> yeah. so it's kind of nice to see not just energy, but industrials and financials and even utilities have made a comeback. kelly: yeah. and so, you know, real quick, what are you telling investors, you know, who are excited about this bull market but maybe want to take some profit? [laughter] >> well, actually, we're advising that you take some profits, especially if there are

short-term needs. i mean, this is the time where you have to take a breather and make sure you understand what your goals and time frames are. and if you have a short-term cash need need, meaning anything that's coming up in the next 1-3 years, this is a fabulous opportunity to take money off the table and secure it. because who knows what tomorrow brings. kelly: oh, gosh, seriously. that always is timing the market. nancy, i wish i had more time with you today, but i do have to say, go, huskies. i saw you were a u-conn grad, so a great march madness run. thank you so much, nancy. >> thank you. kelly: everyone, have a happy easter. markets back open on monday, and the best in business news will be covering all the business news. that'll do it for "the claman countdown". i'm kelly o'grady. hello and welcome to special