there is increasing popularity in watching some of these ladies sports whether at the collegiate level and professional level but having said that is not something interesting to me. maybe i don't know enough about it, i wouldn't necessarily see myself spending money there. i think it is a sliver of the population. traction what they need to move forward. we'll see if it becomes a new trend. taylor: i want to push forward, netflix earnings out after the bell. two to three hours, heading into 2:00 p.m. want to get a quick check on your money. equities are lower but of course netflix will be the biggie after the bell. a lot of analysts like this stock. they think that subscriber gains could be better. it is still number one in streaming this will be a big one, you guys, that we're watching this sort of kicks off maybe more techie of the earnings here now that banks are behind us. streaming profitability -- jackie: everyone is watching netflix today. taylor: charles payne, take it

away. charles: good afternoon, thank you very, very much. good afternoon, i'm charles payne this is "making money." you heard stocks continue to struggle. the thing is anxiety is building big time. pullbacks are inevitable. don't be so pessimistic. there may be a way to make it work for you. meanwhile powell's pom pom dilemma. maybe we're in the situation because fed chair was too excited about rate accounts. trump and his team are saying get him back in the white house he will find ways to weaken the dollar. you never heard a commander-in-chief lead that before. could it lead to a economic boom? my takeaway the rich getting a lot richer, while everyone else suffers. should the rich benefit? i love to hear your thoughts as well. all that and so much more on "making money." ♪. charles: all right, so there is certainly dark clouds out there, i'm just not talking about

outside of the studio but every dark cloud has silver linings let's talk about where we are. this rally has gone on for quite a long time. more recently the peak, march 21st. for the most part we had a series of head fakes. think about this morning. we open higher and we stumble into the close. there have been a number of drawdowns since the market bottom. we're talking way back in october of 2022. we've come down a few times, folks. here's the thing, last summer we were really concerned because that was maybe three or four, three or four months looking weaker and weaker but overall the bias is to the upside. people have gotten comfortable with that. when it is time to make a directional shift we get a little bit nervous but on that it is going to happen at some point and according to certain ways of measuring the markets it has never been this high in decades. up 79, up 10% draw county. this is over next six months this is as high as that level has been in decades.

your anxiety by the way is well-placed with respect to history. keeping that in mind, however, investors have been taking action. you know how smart money always says retail is dumb? retail optimism peaked right around the time as the stock market peaked. in fact right now bearishness at 34% is higher than the historic average. so i'm not sure what was spooking folks on main street but you're actually ahead of the curve a little bit. the development that is problematic for a lot of people right now we came into this year knowing that the stock market had a pretty big rally what they call profit expansion or multiple expansion. we needed profits to come through, so far call hit ho-hum so far. negative guidance in the quarter still along the same line. earnings, nothing impressive right now, nothing really impressive. nothing has jumped out at us. this was the transition. the rally baton was supposed to go from expansion to real fundamental growth and we have not seen it yet. part of that struggle of course,

folks, well is this bond yields, right? the bond yields keep going up and going up and going up, slowly low but surely almost like water torture. you are right to be concerned about the 5% number. historically the market goes up 3.2%, exempt once the 10-year goes above 5%, then it goes down. what about six months? about on average 4.8%. but if we get above 5% and stay above there you should not be surprised the market down almost 6%. all right joining me now jpmorgan chief global strategist, david kelly. david, first and foremost i'm a huge fan. i'm glad you're on the show. >> very happy to be here. charles: you and i of course know there are pullbacks, there is corrections, there is the occasional crash all about of long-term investing but there is some pain associated with the process, right and the anxiety? are people right to feel sort of anxious what is happening right now? >> i think people are right to be cautious because we've had a huge runup in the stock market. you know i think the

fundamentals are still very good. i realize profits are not growing significantly but they're at a very high level. we saw profits soar really over the pandemic years and now we're sort of just treading water. but they're at very high level. the economy is still growing. look like it is growing two to 3%. three million jobs. unemployment rate at 4%. inflation is a little sticky but overall still on a downward trend. overall it is a good economist the issue the market has gone up a lot. it will have corrections. people need to be aware of that as long-term investors. charles: do you sense that for instance what are you saying to folks who are saying okay we're, feels a little toppy here near term, are you taking any actions or you have some ideas on the drawing board? >> it is not so much about the when than the what. people need to think about things fairly valued, things overvalued. if you look at some megacap stocks in the united states are overvalued. they had a huge runup but those are very high multiples for very big companies. the rest of the market is not really overvalued.

non-u.s. stocks they're certainly not overvalued. there are many opportunities. charles: although the sort of like emerging markets, those kind of things they have been cheap versus the u.s. for a long time and you could have taken that bait and watched the rest of this market and, okay, we know the mag-7 are the top 10 or even top 20 names have an overabundance of influence but they also have delivered, right? they have been the engine of growth and earnings. you know the rest of the market despite the economic backdrop you described they have not really stepped up. >> no question but you have to distinguish between the wave and earnings, foam, top of the wave, the level of valuations and some of these companies, i will not mention particular names bus they have a level of valuation which is just too high, even given that optimism. it is important not to get carried away by this. charles: coming into the year your macroeconomic forecast of course 2% gdp growth, zero recessions, 2% inflation and 4%

unemployment give or take. >> yeah. charles: of course that's your 2024. cute, i like it. what on there is starting to look a little shaky there? >> i feel good about 2% gdp growth. we might do more than that right now. zero recession still there. 4% unemployment. there is 28th straight month with 4% or less. inflation is sticky. i think we're more likely to end the year closer to 2 1/2% than 2%. it is moving. we're talking about decimals here. it is still a very good economy. charles: say this moves in this direction, all of sudden so does unemployment? because in the fomc, jay powell mentioned a shock to jobs, it was weird, brought it up on his own unsolicited. not a large shock. we pulled back the last jobs report. 4.1, 4.2, that could send off alam signals.

would that bother you because it seems like the fed would take action. >> it would bother me we were losing jobs to get there. if it were more people piling into the labor market. we've seen increase of workforce participation of working age people. if they're piling in there because there are jobs out there will not worry about that. if it is job growth slowing down to 100,000, 150,000, negative, it is a problem. charles: good news you're describing, more people come back in the little bit more power employers have and that could -- >> that's right. this is giving us a longer, wider soft landing. workers are not demanding these huge wage increases. wage growth is not positive. there were strikes last year but no major strikes this year. workers seem to be remarkably quiet and basically working here and that's helping the economy pro. charles: for the most part for the investors watching, this is just a part, we've had a huge runup for a long time this is more consolidation kind of thing than anything else. >> that's right.

look where your portfolio is, for example, you may be completely underweight international. charles: right. >> maybe in the long run if the dollar comes down you will get better returns on your international. you also may have no alternatives in a portfolio. it is good to have alternative assets as well as stocks and bonds the things people should do. charles: real quick i was supposed to ask you about, the dollar, because you wrote a big piece on the dollar. bloomberg saying king dollar is becoming a bully. a lot of headlines around the world suffering because of the dollar. you see what is happening with all these other currencies. >> yes. charles: l.a. getting hammered tough, big time because of the strength of the dollar. meantime candidate trump, former president trump saying he would actually take action to weaken the dollar. every president is supposed to say they like a strong dollar. there is limit to the strength of dollar. where do you see the dollar going? >> i agree the dollar should come down over time. it is running too high. we are running a huge trade

deficit. it is hurting manufacturing. i agree bringing dollar down to more reasonable level. tariffs slow down the whole global economy. if you want a slightly weaker dollar what you are saying you want stronger currencies in the europe, in the uk, in japan. more we help europe get past the ukraine war, help them be stronger the more we can help our allies. that will naturally bring the dollar down. i think by helping other countries we may actually help achieve this. charles: you're an eternal optimist. i think you're a little late there. great having you on. this is a wall street legend. >> thank you. charles: of course we know the markets hit a rough patch here. listen, people are not making decisive moves. take a look at weekly action in the sectors. people are buying energy, materials, financials, industrials. these are cyclical names. to david's point the economy is doing better, right? they're buying that. what you buy what that happens?

traditional safe havens. out of utilities. out of staples. hottest sector in the market, communication services they're dumping that big time. make it is profit-taking, maybe not. my next guest is also doing some pruning. i want to bring in heritage capital president paul shalt. schatz. you sold all the sexy stocks. you sold the communication stocks. >> you had a epic rally through february and march. these stocks were going up parabolically every day. so to not prune the likes of broadcom and nvidia and micron and amd, that's crazy. charles: right. >> yeah we definitely pruned because we also want to reduce my value at risk in the portfolio. i want a little lower volatility, sleep a little better, raise my dividend level in the portfolio. there are plenty of choices out there and there still are. charles: coming into the year, you gave us the roadmap. you said the first quarter would be strong. you said we'll have a pullback.

you've gone far. that was precise but you really want to set the record for the most precise ever. you are saying this bottom is going to happen. you gave as you date on the map, memorial day. >> well i said we would peak in the first quarter. we would have a for to eight week selloff that is less than 10%. we bottom before memorial day. they were we make new highs by labor day. charles: what i mean, most analysts would come on say, we're buying somewhere between mother's day or malcolm x day then maybe memorial day. you pinpointed memorial day. my man. i love it. you have a lot of heart there. how do we reassess, right? because you pruned all the sexy stuff. you are getting into things decidedly unsexy exempt for cocoa prices which are going through the roof. talk about the new ideas. what is driving these? >> listen with this decline i will not rule out the fact we could go right back in something like broadcom, they go down 15%,

if i will be lining up there with money to buy. you mentioned hershey's, coco is up 400% in six months. hershey's an amazing story, incredible brand, best in breed, has a nice little dividend, expanding internationally. all the ducks are lining up, except for one thing the main input costs i'm not of the opinion cocoa will go up another 400%. >> have they been able to pass any of that on? >> very small. that is why you see the stock down so much over the last year because of cocoa prices. >> right. >> the economy is doing really well. the chemicals in particular have had great earnings. earnings growth, nice free cash flows. dow gives you a 5% yield while you wait. the pullback in the dow, today, tomorrow. charles: we're talking dow chemical for folks watching just to be clear. >> tgna is unusual one. they do it. v stations. what is this year? it is an election year. regardless of the economy, record spending on the election. a great way to leverage it.

they have enormous free cashing flow. most important, twice the private equity try to buy these guys out. government said uh-uh, my argument would be even if, even if the earnings aren't amazing there is some bid under this market where this company gets taken out. charles: so interesting. i did do it this year but almost every four years i would load up on the billboard stocks for the same rationale. they just max them out. >> this will be another record election cycle. it is a special situation. listen at the end of the year if you're not right you pull the rip cord, you get out and move on. charles: great seeing you, paul. appreciate it. folks my next guest says a.i. is very much on his radar. in fact there are some bargains there. keith fitz-gerald is here, folks. you want to get out a pen and pad. he will share some fresh ideas next. ♪.

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her uncle's unhappy. i'm sensing an underlying issue. it's t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit... unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock...” so, if you could change the price, change the name!

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group keith fitz-gerald. i know this has got you licking your chops here. you were talking or writing about n-vidia. it has come down a little bit, not really a lot but it has come down with nvidia. fooling around with the 52 week average. hinting names like nvidia are significantly overvalued? >> well respectfully i would push back on that say compared to what? the rear view mirror? if you look where the world is going, charles, we created 95% of all the recorded data with human history within the last 36 months. we're creating more data today than a person living in the 1700s would have encountered in their lifetime. here is the thing, the stock like nvidia is cheap, not only dirt cheap based on where we're going. the forward p-e is not out of line. charles: i want to ask you about tesla. you wrote a hot about evs.

we know they had some problems in china but i just saw this chart today as well, electric cars, this is registrations around europe, i mean, this is crashing. this is decimation, italy, sweden, germany, the eu overall, poland, spain. just france is the only one still buying these things. so does tesla have a shot? [laughter] >> i ought to have my head examined but this is precisely the moment when you want to look at a company like tesla and buy, and you don't buy because of the ev cars themselves, charles. you buy because of the data he is accumulating. you buy because of the global charging standard. you buy, politicians, right or wrong, large swath want them to be inevitable. we have to clean up the planet. we'll have to trade energy. it doesn't matter. i will take the short term stuff. i buy, grit my teeth, hate every minute of it. few years from now no doubt in my mind i hope i'm walking to

the bank. charles: pick up the cars on the cheap, my man. i saw your letter. something really struck me. i love you to share it. only a minute with the investors. three things to help folks with a break-through, number of one, understand the bigger picture, divorce the story, marry the truth, and mind set. focus on number two, divorce the story, marry your truth? >> absolutely. thank you very much for reading that. everybody has got a story, right, but if you look at the truth, you look at the numbers, you have something like 11, 12% of the s&p 500 already reported, 72% are beating expectations. that is the the truth. forget about the story. you can quibble on that all day long. focus on numbers and ceos putting up results and you will do okay. charles: i'm doing my town hall next week. i will talk a little bit about mindset. i'm talking about everything. people got in the market three or four months ago already trying to get out of the market. what do you tell folks particularly coming into the market, it is all gung-ho, a

u-turn and they want to get out? >> take a deep breath. understand the truth we talk about. the markets have upside bias over the time. lottery ticket analysis you think are doing good isn't. it will hurt you long term. optimism makes money. pessimism does not. charles: keith, talk to you soon. >> thanks, charles. >> we'll talk about powell's pom pom dilemma. the chairman may have gotten too exuberant talking about rate cuts. now everyone is turning their aim at him saying it's his fault next. ♪. there are many ways to do things. at old dominion freight line, we do them this way. this way has people who start early. people who care and inspire each other to do things the way they should be done. this way uses technology (♪) and goes the extra mile

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♪ charles: folks this inflation story is not only growing with respect to the numbers but to the fingerpointing. i guess all of them are facing jay powell and company. they say he is too excited. kelly o'grady with us with more on what we call powell's pom pom dilemma. >> reporter: powell is in a tough spot. in december, he had pom-poms out, market was cheering, they celebrated along with him. there is bloomberg article that the fed chair ignited that rally. it signaled we would see rate cuts coming this year. we're seeing the second act plot twist if you will when it comes to the inflation story.

that bloomberg piece also pointed to higher prices in housing, insurance, commodities as a big driver of that shift. look at crb index. it tracks commodity seconds to for context. we're right back up to almost a two-year high. you see that spike right there. meanwhile i want you to take a look at the atlanta fed wage tracker. this right here, is a really, really steep decline. so nominal wages are still growing but at a much slower rate. so that means workers, they will likely feel the resurgence in the inflation rate more cleanly. we also got another key piece of economic data this morning, was the philly fed report. that gauges manufacturing activity, a sector, kind of seemed to pull back a little bit. well it came in red hot, right? current general activity rose 12 points in one month. i know that doesn't look like much on the chart but believe me it is. shipment activity by the way was the most brisk we've seen since august of 2022, by the way. however, prices paid in that

report also erupted higher. so 23 right here, that is the highest reading we've gotten since december. almost 26% of firms saw a price increase while just 3% reported price decreases. and all this as the number of employees swooned and then the average work week plunged. now another interesting tidbit, 69% of employers surveyed in that study say they have actually made no changes to againization this year and then another another 78% said they have not needed to adjust their budget for wages that underscores what you saw in the wage tracker i showed you. wages are not rising quickly as they were yet inflation has ring nated. fed chair powell, charles, he may have to keep the pom-poms in the closet for the foreseeable future. we'll see. charles: they are attractive, wants to pick them up badly but i agree, maybe let them gather a little dust. thanks a lot, kelly. my next guest says she sees problems brew for the market in part because rate cuts were already priced in.

i want to bring in a chief economist anikatlion. seems like a serious dillema. powell under criticism for the transitory situation. you can tell he was eager for the soft landing. he wants it so bad he can take it. was he a little bit ahead of himself in december, november, last year, sort of telegraphing a victory lap? >> look, charles, of course, and of course we can have a lot of theories about the pom-poms, i like that analogy a lot but what is more important which is the really good news, you can actually say, charles, who cares? let's take a step back, markets at the beginning of the year were expecting about five rate cut this is year. that five number has gone down to two or three but look at market levels. market levels are at all-time highs. how is that possible? if this occurred six to 12

months ago the markets would have really taken a hit. there is one reason why, the reason is earnings are strong, cash flows are strong. which means markets are less obsessed about whether the pom-poms are coming in and out of the cupboards and they're more focus what they should be focused on which is the real economy. charles: although we peaked on march 21st. we're starting to, you know, it feels a little bit like the snowball boulder thing and we're just at the early part of this snowball moving downhill but right now the trajectory feels like with all due respect we're going closer to the potential of this becoming a boulder. so all the things that you said are correct but now we're down to one right cut. who knows what if we're down to you know, talking rate hikes again? >> yeah, it always goes back are we talking glass half-full or glass half empty. how do we look at the data? you could argue the fact that rates are not being cut is because of the fact that the economy is so strong which is

why inflation is holding up so strongly, and if that's the reason why the cuts are happening later or there is less cuts, is that actually such a big problem? and it all boils down to, what is the valuation of companies, what is the valuation multiple of the index and if it turns out that what markets are expecting 10% earnings growth, it ends up being even higher, well that's, that's a very important compensating factor. charles: so where do we go from here? i started the show off showing sort of a change in buying, right? investors are buying in the last couple weeks buying cyclical names, to your point looking at the economy getting stronger, ditching defensive names which they never really bought any way but ditching them more, but the wild card is the hot megacap names, hot growth names which may be overpriced here? >> i mean that's the interesting thing and that's why it's all but unsexy stuff. it is the rolling the sleeves,

sort of what your previous guest was talking about, ditch the story, look at the facts. let's look at the s&p. let's look at the index, now looking at the index you would say gosh, all-time highs, market breadth is still an issue. if you look at the equal weighted index and the look at the multiple off the index, ex, the top five or six companies 18 times earnings it is not so baddest specially if earnings growth is continuing to be so strong. charles: right. >> you can look at defensives, cyclicals but let's look inside, let's look at businesses to see how they are faring. >> there is no doubt, there is probably a whole lot of great opportunities that were overshad doughed by "the magnificent seven" and now maybe it will be their time to shine. anika, thank you very much. always appreciate it. >> thank you. charles: my next guest says the vice-chair of the fed say inflation will actually decline further, at least the pace of

it, right where levels are, the question they're saying it, i want to show if she believes them? wealth enhancement group, senior vice president nicole webb. listen, it is always good when they try to make us feel better especially when it's powell and williams but are they losing any credibility with you? >> all right. so i kind of want to take a, kind of want to take what all these guests have said, put it through my lens. charles: okay. >> all right. the likelihood that we get a fed pivot from the fed pivot, i'm sorry, no. i don't think we're going to get rate hiking cycle. charles: aren't they data dependent? what if data comes in hotter and hotter? >> they are data dependent. but there is data below the surface. when you dig in a little deeper, labor supply must have come into more of a balance or we wouldn't have, or we would have more wage inflation. i think so much of the story, the underbelly what everybody is trying to say is the backdrop of

growth is coming from productivity, onshoring, reshoring, deglobalization. all of that is baked into the growth trajectory. we heard david kelly above 2%. he was baking in 2% growth for this year but it is heading higher. we see that continually with consensus from the fed. when we put all that together it makes inflation stickier. we know there is concentration of wealth this country. high rates have been beneficial. almost like an atm. charles: yeah. >> for the same people invested in the atm names, that was the second atm they could go to this year. high rates have been almost good for that portion of the consumer, a la, amex, some of these names continuing to hilt their all-time highs. charles: right. >> how do we then think about the market and where that plays out? i think where you just say not all companies are created equal, if that is the macro theme. we're not completely in control of which way the data goes how do we think about you know,

making changes in the underbelly of our portfolio. charles: have you begun to make changes to that? >> yeah. charles: what are you doing? >> i think there are some interesting trends in the way consumers are spending. we got a good look-through after bank ceos after earnings. what we continue to hear that the consumer is doing well. we heard consistently that they're spending money differently again. this is not a new theme. it continues, how do you think about travel? one of my favorite travel flays of late is actually starbucks, a name that the street hates right now but when we think about that concentration of wealth, the consumer that is out doing luxury travel globally, they might not know how to order espresso in espresso bar in rome but they definitely know how to get coffee at a starbucks in italy. you play the bring furcation yes, that it is present but it doesn't mean there are not names that will continue to do well. charles: starbucks only recently opened stars in italy.

>> i know. >> i don't blame them. domino's went to italy, wonder why they went out of business. >> fair. charles: i got a minute to go. there is more volatility in this market. there is more anxiety in this market. names that miss are getting hammered. asml is a chip name. chips are all of sudden wobbly, because this name, it's a great player, you think this is an opportunity, could be an opportunity for people who didn't get a chance to the first time to buy on weakness. >> exactly. a lot of people were sitting on the sidelines saying i missed my entry point. it was easy to feel that way almost over single day for the last three months. charles: yeah. >> when you see some pullbacks in nvidia, asml if you're an investor, traders have a whole other obstacle course. if you're an investor at some point in the future i think you look back at today's entry point for names like asml as being really positive entry. that doesn't mean that the next 90 days will be in your favor but in the rear view mirror, you

will go, i'm glad i stepped forward into the space i was underweight. charles: amazing. people say i wish i owned it. i wish i had it. it comes back down, get a chance to own it. they're afraid, why did it come down? >> i think the story is the same for small caps. charles: yeah. >> everyone wants to time everything perfectly but yes we've seen more after pullback in the russell but what i want to say consistently there is a lot of jobs that happen in the russell. charles: right. >> we'll not have the expression of high rates play out perfectly across all companies at the same time so that will reinforce the data. the data then that gives the fed the green light for that first cut which will be in a moment of exuberance in the market if nothing breaks. this is where there is still so much opportunity. all right? charles: all right. always appreciate you. asml said the second half will be fantastic. >> yes they did. charles: thanks a lot. all right, my next guest a big fan of tech in the past. in fact he is probably one of the best known over the last two

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♪. charles: well my next guest says the current market pullback is not surprising given the expectations rate cuts are dropping but his focus right now happens to be on energy and energy prices. i want to bring in satori fund founder portfolio manager, dan niles. dan, i want to start with the notion of rate cuts. in conventional wisdom were to shift, right, forget about any rate cuts, say there is no rate cuts for 2024, does that mean the rally is over? >> no, i don't think so, but i think what it means what we've seen so far this year which is earnings are driving stock price moves which by the way wasn't the case for the last two years, to put it in comparison. i mean you go back to 2022, fed was in the fastest rate hiking cycle in history. "the magnificent seven," you know, dropped 46% or so that year. last year when the fed stopped hiking rates and we were anticipating a 1.7 rate cuts "the magnificent seven" rallied

i think 46% or so for the year. now if you look at this year, they're up as a group around low teens but there is massive bifurcation based on earnings where tesla is down nearly 40% as numbers keep coming lower. apple is down 13% as numbers keep going lower and the three best performers are ones where the numbers keep going higher which is meta, amazon and nvidia. so without rate cuts what you will see is the market continuing to look at earnings as the driver of stock prices and not just multiples and rate cuts. >> i know your focus has been on energy which is interesting in a sense the fed decision making, they always do ex food and energy but the rest of us can't. what is your concern when it comes to energy right now? >> there is really two things. if you look at a lot of the recessions and pullbacks we've

had in history they have been caused by energy prices spiking, if you look at energy today, west texas intermediate started the year at 72 bucks. it is up 15% from those levels at about 83. and energy prices feed into, the rest of us have to deal with heating our homes and buying groceries and things like that and that feeds into all of that, and that feeds into inflation. the second part of it is, if you're spending a lot more money filling up your car at the pump, you have a lot less money to spend. so for an economy led by the consumer, which is 70% of the spending, that's a problem. so you have a double impact on inflation as well as reduced consumer spending and that's why i'm focused very heavily on oil prices. charles: is there a number, do you have a number in mind though where you start to say, okay, you know it's one thing i'm watching 85, 90, is there a number on wti that really makes you really start to go back to the drawing board? >> not really, because you have

to remember, charles, for me, i'm picking stocks and so depending where the price of oil is i will adjust what i really like and what i really hate. i just keep changing that mix. so i think if you get the price of oil back into kind of single-digit decline range it would make me feel more comfortable but as you're seeing with earnings, the biggest problem so far is because the multiple for the market is so high relative to where inflation is. so you're trading at a 21 pe, with cpi sitting at 3 1/2%, usually when you're in that range of three to 4% of cpi, 21 times through history, not 19. you don't have any valuation support. why you're seeing numbers aren't good as people think in tech, you talked about asml in the earlier segment. obviously tsmc this morning as well, you know, that tells you something when these stocks are getting hit or tesla before

that. we'll see what netflix does tonight after the close. that's another great data point to watch because everybody on the planet is expecting a beat and raise there. if the stock goes down anyway, that will tell you something about the "magnificent seven" earnings which are a lot more important coming next week. charles: i know you've got some other things on your radar beyond technology. biotech, industrials, financials. talk to us about that. are you buying there, kicking the tires, just looking, what are you doing there? >> no, i mean the good news is everybody, it is a.i. 24/7 in this market, a lot of those sectors have been left for dead, so especially after earnings, you know the financials obviously reported on friday. the numbers were fine. it is just none of them really raised their net income interest numbers. so we've actually gone ahead and started buying some of those already. we're looking into the industrial space, fintech, biotech, other areas that aren't in "the magnificent seven," a.i.

complex because we think the money is going to start to spread especially in this type of interest rate environment and fed environment and so i think you have to be very, very selective because if you screw up, your stock will get absolutely hammered because even the decent reports they're getting soaked. >> they're taking them out to the woodshed for sure. by the way i'm also overweight in industrials as well. dan, thank you very much, appreciate it. >> thank you, charles. charles: see you soon. folks, in recent articles, it has been there is a new thing, big debate brewing about these rate hikes. you heard a couple of our guests talk about it today, too. how they have added to this economy. how it has been a economic boom for a lot of folks but it has been a bust for more. we'll discuss it when we come back. ♪.

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charles: all right, so on wall street, there's sort of a growing debate about higher interest rates actually being a net, get this, folks, high interest rates a net plus a positive for society. manager david einhorn and a few others staring at the pot a bit. just look what it's done for the economy. take a look at this, folks. they're saying at the start of rate hikes, gdp 4. and start was 3.2%. unemployment stayed the same and 3-point #%, 3.8% and corporate profits are climbing bill time from 3 trail to $3.4 trillion and the stock market. 4300 on s&p and hit as high as 5200 and down to 5,000. what's there to not like? say okay, if you want to break it down, this is more macro. give a little granular with it. this one you have to understand. there's $13 trillion in short

term interest varying assets in the country, ask there's $ 5 trillion in consumer debt excluding mortgages. why not? of course mortgages ain't a big deal. nevertheless go with this, so you've got $13 trillion, $ 5 trillion, your net gain for u.s. households is $4 billion. we're in the money, boys and girls. of course, the problem is where is that $400 billion going? who's getting the money and g oing for that and going in and out of third and they're all around and they own everything and coming into this year. boomers and a silent generation and see it here. absolutely it's changed the most and last year they've done extraordinarily well and going to see their net worth go down and class begins to brag and going for them struggling and you get a powder kick, folks. that's what we get is the powder

keg is get bigger and bigger and bigger. i want to bring in ceo lily. listen, of course the wealthy have done very well. and during the pandemic, which ask really interesting, everyone kind of, the stimies ran out and everyone made money. what most people realize is that was always designed to go out of their hands into the pockets of the 1%. and now there's a lot of friction about that. >> yeah, that's right. i'm so glad you're calling back the pandemic. every 30 hours a new billionaire was made during the pandemic. charles: every 30 houser. >> yeah, it's mind blowing and so many taction incentives and access to cash and new financial vehicles for growth and who benefited from that? a lot of billionaires and add business owners like myself able to have access toly quitty that may be under -- to liquidity under non-pandemic varicose veins ready available and strange new theory could have some validity within it.

charles: is it smart for wall street, wall street economists and politicians to brag about this stuff when infuriation is through the roof, particularly things that we need to know like for instance, they say you look at core inflation, wages above core inflation. it's true but wages are below utility bills, below food bill, gasoline bills. that's what really regular people use every single day. >> that's why we're seeing the contradiction because this no landing scenario, i'm glad we're seeing this right here. you're seeing the every day american below that green line and pricing of every day life. food, lights, gas. charles: we eat every day and most drive a car every day or use some some of gasoline or fossil fuels every day. >> right. but that theory of i nterest-bearing assets helping the 400 billion we're seeing and going to the 1%, then you're s eeing earning ands wealth g

rowing which gives you false view of economy that wait a second, despite the hikes, it's still not going back to pre-pandemic rates and inflation and sill looks resilient and this is where wycoff it gets dangerous and back down to the 1%, they'll feel it and they'll be voting with this as their ticket and also ultimately if we don't adjust the pricing situation, you cannot continue to pass down the pricing hikes to the consumer, which is how the earnings are being so h ealthy thus far. charles: 20 seconds to go and you do this research all the time and research people, customers, consumers and what are they saying? how much longer can they max out their credit cards? >> you know, we are always l ooking at top issues and what are the pressing things keeping people up at night and of c ourse, jobs on the economy, continues to be at the top t hree. charles: all right. we find of figured; right, liz? liz: yeah, as always