we don't want google will tell us there will be a slowdown in q2. we want to continue to see revenue growth. i would say wall street is looking, the sell side is higher than the buy side. sell side is looking double-digit revenue growth 13 to 15% and the buy side is down to the nine, 10% level. next couple years -- kelly: okay we'll be hooking for that. out in the next couple seconds here. laura martin, thank you so much for your time today. down, for the second session in a row, 373 points. [closing bell rings] wee have israel on the protests and sponges this. we'll dig into the pec report, see how the markets react to that. that will do it for "the claman countdown." "kudlow" is next ♪. larry: hello, folks, welcome to "kudlow," i'm larry kudlow. so the latest gdp report is out, slower growth, higher inflation

equals stagflation. it is the worst of all worlds. stocks dropped nearly 400 points. tackle all this and more, we have steve moore around mike falkander. can president trump stay on message if he is in court every day? sure looks like it but the great kellyanne conway will tell us. she will be here on set. do presidents have absolute immunity from the supreme court hearing this morning? gregg jarrett and pam bondi will weigh in. the markets did not hike today's gdp report. our own gerri willis standing by with more. gerri, not so good. >> reporter: not so good, larry. if you want to know where market rates are going, interest rates they will not get cut anytime soon after today but let's start with those numbers from gdp, right? as we take a look at this, the answer to your question is yes, the market realized rates may

not come down soon. let's start with today's close. stocks down, not at the lows of the day. the dow down 375 points. at its worst it was down 700 points. the s&p closing down 23, the nasdaq down 100. the selloff started with the release of the first quarter gdp as larry said, which came in well below consensus estimates of 2.4%, 1.6%. worse inflation was hotter than expected with consumer prices increasing at a 3.4% pace. that is well above previous quarters, 1.8% advance. all in, growth shrunk and prices are high. a classic definition stagflation traders say has them concerned. rate cuts in july are down to 25% in june. well forget about it as they say. adding to the worries meta plunged 11% after the social media giant issued light revenue guidance. that is the stock's biggest decline since october of 2022.

upcoming reports by alphabet and microsoft will be fine tune. one trader said, friday fears will creep in. larry: creep creep, thanks, gerry as always. the now the riff tonight. joe biden's economy going from bad to worse. it is not just high inflation, falling workers wages. we have now higher inflation, lower growth. that will drive wages down as well. it is called stagflation. the gdp report came in, 1.6% for the first quarter, way down from the temporary growth spurt in last year's second half. meanwhile the core inflation rate, in the first quarter, jumped to 3.7% at an annual rate, way above the fed's 2% target. now inside of the report consumer spending slowed, capital investment slowed, inventories slumped, the trade

deficit widened. what is joe biden's answer on the campaign trail? spend more, tax more, regulate more, and that is a perfect policy storm for continuing stagflation, meaning even weaker growth and i here inflation. joe biden's crowing over his intention to let all the successful trump tax cuts expire. as is always the case with president biden, his economic statements are completely counter factual. i have gone over this ground so many times but, but, distinguished economist larry lindsay is writing that people making less than $200,000 had an average tax cut of 5.5% under trump. now that's a bigger number than the 3.9% tax cut for those making over 200,000. real weekly earnings during the trump years rose 7.7% from the

end of 2016, to the end of 2020. now thighs are average families. these are typical working folks. they are not rich people. they enjoyed a virtual boom under mr. donald trump. meanwhile underbiden real wages have dropped 2.9%. solet me get this right. typical families income up 5.7 under trump but fall 2.9 underbiden. that is 10.5% swing against biden. that explains so much why economic confidence in tum typically runs 25 percentage points more compared to biden. meanwhile the key measure of inequality, stay with me on this it is called the genie coefficient. that's most widely used for inequality. it declined significantly under trump. he was the first president in four decades to leave office with a lower genie than when he

entered. that means, inequality fell during the trump years. that is part and parcel why middle and lower income people had the biggest gains from the trump tax cut no matter what joe biden untruth the he may be spewing on the campaign trail. meanwhile biden increased regulatory costs by $1.4 trillion, which is strangling small business, and by the way, it is killing electricity and other sources of power necessary to underpin economic growth, plus, biden continues to spend his keister off and democratic economist jason furman, an honest man, has pointed out that the $500 billion or more cost of joe biden's plans to cancel student loans will increase inflation and increase interest rates, that includes increasing higher mortgage rate as well.

basically "bidenomics" is trying to temporarily boost consumer demand while strangling the business supply of goods and services. that is a stagflation scenario or worse. mr. biden says he will permanently expire the trump tax cuts but voters are suggesting they will permanently retire biden, expire and retire. think about that. joining me now, steve moore, committee to unleash prosperity hotline, host of "moore money" on wa-bc radio, and michael faulkender, former assistant treasury secretary for economy and chief economist at afpi. welcome. michael faulkender, this was i guess unexpectedly poor report, much lower growth. atlanta fed gdp tracker was 2.9. the actual number came in at 1.6, the inflation numbers came in much higher than expected. you have a a 3.7% core pec

deflator. it is the worst of both worlds, michael, what is going on here. >> yes it is, larry. borrow money from abroad, send them out to consumers to spend the money, first of what we saw a lot of it was spent on imported goods. that is where some of the shock in the report came from, ask that the imports number rose so much but second is they keep undermining the ability of producers to generate things here domestically. as you said, last week alone, we got another $750 billion of regulation coming out of this administration. that hasn't even hit the gdp reports yet. this is very much a sign of things to come under joe biden when you have government telling businesses not to create things because of all of the regulation coming out of washington with all of the borrowed money driving up demand. larry: you know, steve moore, i may have lost half my viewership talking about the genie coefficient but i'm defining it.

it is the best, most standard measure of inequality. this is the important point i'm trying to make, biden says the trump tax cuts were only good for rich people. that is completely untrue. middle income workers had the biggest gain. we chronicled that before. larry lindsey wrote about it, but this genie coefficient inequality fell under trump. let me repeat that, inequality fell under trump. it's the first time, what did lindsay say in 40 years such a thing has happened. joe biden doesn't understand it. and in fact those folks, those working folks, those non-rich folks benefited under trump and they yearn for the trump days. that's all i'm saying. genie coefficient means inequality. it fell under trump. it has been rising under biden. >> yeah, exactly the opposite of what joe biden says. he keeps talking about a middle out expansion. no, this has been a middle squeeze we've seen. the number i like to use on your

show because it's true, it comes from the census bureau, is a real 6,000-dollar per household increase in income. larry: right. >> under trump. that is giant number. $6,000 of additional purchasing power. it is down by about $2,000 under biden. i'm with michael. why would we expect growth? i am surprised we get 1.6 frankly. where will the growth come from, with higher taxes, michael is right. now the burden of regulations each year is about three trillion dollars on top of five, $6 trillion of taxes. and you've got all of these anti-business regs coming out one after another after another. we can't even keep track of them, they're coming out so rapidly. one other point, larry, when you have inflation running, what was the number, 3.6, 3.7%. larry: 3.7. >> we had nominal growth of gdp at, about 5%. the problem is, inflation is eating almost all of that growth

because prices are rising so fast. larry: well, the inflation fires are still very hot. that's the point. the fed wants 2%. we're moving the wrong way. we saw this in the cpi for january, february and march. mike falkander, the average cpi for the first three months of the year was 4 1/2% at an annual rate. so lo and behold, the so-called pce deflator, the core deflator sup 3.7, a little less, which of is what generally happens, but going the wrong way. the fed wants two, we're heading towards four or worse. the policies will stimulate demand. you know jason furman, mike falkander. i know jason furman very well, honest guy. clinton economist, obama economist. he was out, i think he said on cnbc or some station, he said that if you can sell all these student loans, the point is it will boost consumer demand, which will cause higher

inflation, higher interest rates and higher mortgage rates. thought on that, mr. falkander? >> yeah, i mean what jason is fuhrman is doing demonstrating there is still a part of the democratic party has not bought into this far heft approach towards government and wants to have credibility after joe biden is shown the exit because he and larry summers were have been out this the entire time saying if you throw this much money into the economy you will get inflation. larry, let's remember, i mentioned this before, but larry summers came out recently and said, if you inchewed mortgage interest payments and car loan payments that the inflation rate under joe biden would not have peaked at nine it would peak at 18. if you go to the traditional way, the way we measured inflation back in the '70s, include those numbers, therefore identify the impact on household budgets, inflation is far worse than the official statis tickers would have you believe. that is why joe biden is so far

underwater. a couple left-wing democrat economists who want to be believed sometime in the future and are actually calling out his party. larry: by the way jason furman will be on the show tomorrow. haven't seen him in a while. good for him. steve moore, how about this regulatory story. two things i want to explore. one of them is, new regs from biden will basisally attempt, it will all be challenged in the court the but attempting to end coal, to end new natural gas, and coal, and end new natural gas plants. they have already ruled out new lng plants. so, steve, just on that narrow regulatory slice, there is others, i know there is over one trillion in total costs, who is going to power the economy? you know, you have to have electricity. now wind and solar is a tiny portion of our total electricity. if you take out natural gas and you take out lng, and you take

out coal, i'm not sure what is left besides the windmills in the year 1200 ad in holland which we had on this screen a couple of nights ago. what is left bides all the dutch windmills? >> not much. i want to say one last thing about the inflation story because it is important, larry, do you know the last incumbent president who ran for re-election with and i-flation rate this high? jimmy carter. jimmy carter against your guy reagan. larry: that is way too easy. i thought you were going to ask me a hard question. that is way too easy, jimmy carter. >> well my point is -- larry: talk about the power. i'm interested in this power story. you can't close down power and have a strong economy. i mean you just can't. the bidens think you can and i don't understand this. >> we get 80% of our energy today from old-fashioned wind, coal, i'm sorry, oil, gas and coal. you know the fossil fuels.

the regulation, i want to make sure your viewers understand this, biden is putting out a regulation that says all freight that is transported across america, tens of billions of dollars of freight every single day, has to be on a carbon-free form of transportation, that includes our rail, our trucks and our ships. now what are you going to do? will you use sailboats to get our stuff across the country? larry: yeah. >> imagine this, larry. you have a 10-ton truck that is carrying a huge cargo, right? they have to go across the country? you're going to do that with a battery? that batteries don't even exist. this is nonsense. almost as if they're intentionally trying to destroy our economy. you destroy a country's energy supply and its economy will not function. larry: mike falkander, that is not the only regulatory issue.

let's go back to american action, whatever, doug holtz-eakin's, doug holtz's eakin -- >> american action forum. larry: american action forum. joe biden's final rule costs are $1.37 trillion, $1.37 trillion. barack obama's, much more frugal, $303.1 billion. that's still a big number until biden came along. donald trump, 30.1 billion. all right? trump 30 billion. obama 300 billion, and biden 1.4 trillion. what does that tell you? that is disregard for free-market capitalism, that is emphasis on what newt calls big government socialism, top down, regulatory state, jamming stuff down our thoses that we don't want. that is all that is. you know what? that is why his economic polls are so terrible. people know all about this.

they want to buy gasoline-powered car. they want to buy, buy an ev, fine, buy an ev, don't tell me i have to in the next five years. don't tell me you will spend trillions of dollars subsidizing student loan cancellations? really? people are, falkander, this great thought just occurred to me, people are smart, not stupid. the trouble with the bidens is, they think the average voter is stupid, not smart. how about that? >> larry, the thing is these are numbers coming straight from the administration. so this is what the biden administration is telling you is the economic impact. do you think that that is going to understate or overstate the true number? right, the true number will be significantly higher than that. and so, and, the trump number, actually was negative, if you were to do a lot of analysis the right way. if you count all the deregulatory activity we did, we actually took regulatory costs off the american economy. so the contrast between the two visions could not be more stark. larry, let me mention one other

thing, which is, they are in regulatory overdrive right now, because we're approaching, what is called the cra deadline, right? sew if they don't get these rules done and trump wins again and republicans have both the house and the senate, we can use the congressional review act to undo things done with so many legislative days to go. they're trying to cram everything in now. so these numbers are not final. we've got a few biggies still to go to get in under the deadline. larry: i'm crushed, you didn't comment on the brillance of my insight, that ordinary people are smart. they're smart. that is the basis, that is the essence of free markets. they know how to act in their own self-interests. the bidens don't believe that. the bidens think only pro-hamas ivy league graduates are smart. okay? i have to get out of here. i'm get into a lot of trouble. >> they want to, what happened this morning the fcc announced new regulations on the internet for goodness sakes. larry: we have ajit pai coming

on to take care of that. gentlemen, steve moore, michael faulkender, people are smart. that the essence of free market capitalism. meanwhile kellyanne conway is coming on. she will coach me how smart people are. they seem to understand donald trump's message, even if you tie him up in court, he is still out there. by the way he will carry new york state. somebody has to find the poll. trump has closed the gap in new york state with biden. it is hilarious story. i'm kudlow. people are smart. hawaii

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larry: so can president trump stay on message while he is in court every day? joining us now to tell us all about it, kellyanne conway for former counselor to president trump and fox news contributor. kellyanne, welcome, welcome, welcome. besides going to a bodega in harlem, he went to a construction site, midtown, 48th and park. we have a poll, i don't know whether the poll, but he narrowed the gap in new york to only 10 points. four years ago it was 23 points. so what's going on here? >> what is going on is that trump is actually expanding his coalition, core constituency,

looks, feels different, larger and more diverse than in the past, 2016 and 2020, why, larry? it includes more union households than 2016 when that helped us win in pennsylvania, michigan, ohio. it includes more hispanics, african-americans. excuse me, he beat the queen bee, while majority of the voters were female. we've been majority of the electorate since 1964. even if he gets 4% more, 3% more, "new york times/sienna poll" showing biden leading trump in new york, where biden won by 23 last time. if it is half right, biden is in trouble. see what trump's doing. he is doing something joe biden can't do. joe biden can't command a crowd. he can't, just low energy, no excitement whenever he shows up somewhere. what is ironic, this is the way democrats like barack obama, particularly bill clinton, even jimmy carter at the time all over iowa would go through the

crowd, shake hands with people directly. trump on the dais, with the teleprompter, above the people. larry: they're cheering him. he goes to the bodega a crowd develops. >> chick fill la in atlanta. larry: god's chicken or the lord's chicken. does this thing on midtown, 48th street, where they're building a big bank building. by the by, you take a look at construction workers, i see a lot of blacks, i see a lot of his panic. >> absolutely. larry: they're the ones all chanting for trump. you know somebody is going on. the biden thing is dead air, dead weight. >> i'm one small person, people run up to me from all places, all spaces, many different faces, tell him we're for him 100%. some people say i didn't vote for him before but things are so bad, biden is a real gift to trump. i think also ironically although he is stuck in the courtroom all day, larry he is on message. larry: yeah. >> he is projecting strength,

resilience, perseverance but he is the guy with better plan on inflation economy. not hike your taxes. not do 44% cap gains tax. many people predicted trump would elected in it sift would be king of debt. he is the king of growth. larry: i love the king of growth. i love that. are you kidding? >> you can have that. larry: the king of growth, we'll go to mr. trump own anti-semitism where joe biden has nothing to say but listen to mr. trump for a moment please. >> i will direct the department of justice to pursue federal sift rights cases, not only have their endowments taxed but through budget reconciliation i will advance a measure to have them fined up to the entire amount of their endowment. >> people love that. larry: and, right. so we're going after the rich endowments. we could fine them and tax them if need be because he wants to go to a merit policy, not a dei, diversity, equity, inclusion

policy. he is totally opposed to what the antisemites are doing. the other thing he said, we didn't quite get it in this chip, he will enforce civil rights laws against discrimination, which joe biden hasn't uttered a peep about, which merrick garland hasn't uttered a peep about, which is disgusting they have not you utd people about it. >> even whether they work hard they work hard on issues that don't animate americans. i love president trump goes to the cultural zeitgeist. what can columbia do, what can new york do, also happening in the halls of congress. we have a lot of antisemites who can't vote yes on a resolution to condemn hamas. the squad is leading the charge. there is a federal role for happening on college campuses. here is what we're going to do. the reason for kamala harris,

joe biden, merrick garland, don't trust the civil rights enforcement because they think they own the issue. they thought they owned issue of illegal immigration an border security, nine years ago when donald trump raised it, elevated to the national consciousness. they called him all these names. it is number one, number two issue all the swing states. they miscalculated which dom of voter yet again. if we can attack trump and his plan on the wall, immigration, border security. we have can get more hispanics. it backfired. hispanics are running toward donald trump. also young people. amazing article in "the hill" about housing costs. young couple, when we think buy their first home? that is biden's, not putin, not covid. larry: mortgage rates. borrowing coasts. 30% credit card costs. now showing up in the inflation numbers. i was saying in the last segment, maybe tongue-in-cheek, average folks, average voters, average consumers are smart,

they are not stupid. the bidens think they're stupid. average people have wisdom. they know the way the world works, just from their curbside level of living or their kitchen table level, it is unbelievable. trump gets that. >> he gets that. larry: biden doesn't have a clue about that. >> i have moderated thousands of focus groups in my career, larry, i've been in all 50 states at least once doing a project on the ground and when you sit with people, you don't insult them. you learn to appreciate them and elevate their opinions. they will tell you you their aspirations frustrations. let me tell you something. i look down see household income, latte and dry cleaning bills annually for some of my friends in new york. that is household income for a whole year. they thought this through. they can't afford to make a bad mistake whether household budget or president of the united states. he has got them. >> he has them. numbers show he has them. kellyanne conway, seriously nobody better. you told me last night at the birthday party, i said you would.

>> here we are. larry: like imagine quick. >> showing up is 85%. larry: we love you for it. folks, the next one, what's so bad about coal? you know, we'll ask president and ceo of the national nining association rich nolan because the bidens are assaulting coal. we'll have no electricity, no gas, no oil, no coal, no electricity. guess what that means? no growth. what did you call it -- king of growth. boy do i love that. remember, "kudlow" is available as a podcast. episodes available every day after the show on spotify, on apple, fox business podcast.come on. three years for kellyanne conway. we'll be right back.

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larry: we'll take president trump speaking outside of the courthouse right now. listen. >> charlottesville was a little peanut and nothing compared, the hate wasn't the kind of hate you have here. this is tremendous hate. we have a man that can't talk about it because he doesn't understand it. he doesn't understand what is going on with our country. he doesn't understand that all over the world we're being laughed at as a country because of him and his administration. and today we had, i'm here because i was forced to be here and i'm glad i was because it was a very interesting day in a certain way but the u.s. supreme court had a monumental hearing on immunity and the immunity having to do with presidential immunity and i think it was made clear, i hope it was made clear that a president has to have immunity. you don't have a president or at most you could say with be ceremonial president. that is not what the founders

had in mind. not talking about ceremonial. we want presidents that can get things done and bring people together. i heard the meeting was quite amazing, quite amazing and the justices were on their game. so, we'll see how it all turns out, i say presidential immunity, very powerful presidential immunity is imperative or you practically won't have a country anymore. thank you very much. [shouting questions] larry: there you have it, on the issue of presidential immunity. let's talk about that key point, supreme court held a hearing today. we have gregg jarrett, fox news legal analyst. we have amount -- pam bondi, former florida attorney general, co-chair of afpi justice and law center. you filed an amicus brief, afpi. what was your read of the hearing on immunity at the supremes today? >> i think it went great for

president trump, larry. the questions were great by the justices and i think firmly, i think really the worst-case scenario for president trump which is good, they're going to find there is immunity, they will remand it back to the lower courts to make a determination which instances were immune and which were not. which were official acts and which were him as a private citizen. i think those most likely that is what will happen. of course they could rule complete immunity and dismiss the case, or could rule he had no immunity at all. given the questions today i believe that will happen. that will take months and months and months of hearings before it actually gets to trial. larry: gregg jarrett, a, give us your read if you agree with pam bondi or not, and b, the issue as i understand it, non-lawyer that i am, nixon versus fitzgerald gave presidential immunity in civil cases but this one is a criminal case but many

people think that the criminal case should be included in presidential immunity or whatever the term is, the outer limits of immunity, because otherwise presidents will not be able to operate as presidents they may all go to jail or be in court after they leave the white house as they're doing to trump. what's your raid, gregg jarrett? >> it appears most justices are willing to grant some kind of immunity, larry. you spoke out a great deal about nixon v fitzgerald acts 1982 case that did give presidents immunity from civil lawsuits as long as their actions fall quote, on the outer perimeter of official duties. so i think it is quite possible the high court will simply extend that immunity connection to criminal prosecutions because the exact same reasoning applies. if there is no immunity whatsoever, my goodness the chilling effect on presidential decision making would be severe. if they go that way, pam's

right, they have to remand the case back to the trial court to decide whether those limited immunity conditions were met by trump in the j 6 case. they could also simply say, you know, there should be some kind of immunity for presidents. we'll send it back to the lower court to figure it out. we'll give you a little bit of guidance to do that, but either way the process will be time-consuming, briefs, court hearings, further appeal. so, that makes it impossible that a trial could take place before the election. larry: so no layup for the special prosecutor. pam bondi, you know, "wall street journal" ran an op-ed piece today, rifkin, somebody else, abe lincoln would have been thrown in jail because after all he suspended habeas corpus during the civil war. that was really against the law or congress didn't approve it. harry truman took over the steel mills in a labor dispute. i opposed that blue he but he wd

have been thrown in jail. previous presidents, both bushes and obama, would have been thrown in jail because they violated some part of the war powers act. that is trump's logic. you can't be president if you have to look over your shield, going to jail or courts after you leave. that has been his logic from day one, pam. >> right. larry it would be an endless cycle of former presidents being prosecuted. they would just become figureheads. they wouldn'table able to do their jobe. one of the leftists arguments, president trump could have ordered seal team six to assassinate a political opponent. that is what we wrote in our friend of the court brief. of course he can't do that. justice alito said, he couldn't do that, and would be illegal, and navy seals wouldn't do that

because they know it would be illegal. that is how ludicrous the left's argument has become. i believe president trump will prevail this immunity case. larry: i think both of you are saying the same thing, this is no, there is no 24 second clock, no 10 seconds over the half court line. this will not map right away. this will be a long drawn out process. when will the you supremes make a decision to remand if they clan do that, gregg, can you take a guess? >> judging by what neil gorsuch said today, this is a decision for the ages, you know, he and the other justices i think really appreciate the gravity of what is before them and i think they are going to take their time. this isn't, to them i don't think this is really about trump. this is about future presidents for generations. i love your point about lincoln, yes, he would have been thrown in jail. i think you advised him not to

suspend habeas corpus. i think you advised john adams not to sign the sedition act if i recall correctly. larry: no, no, i told harry truman, don't take over the steel mills. that is not free-market capitalism. he went ahead and did it anyway, but nobody threw him in jail or court. that's the point. >> should have listened. >> what was important today, brett kavanaugh said, what is to stop a creative prosecutor from using a vague statute, a criminally charge a president especially a prosecutor from the the opposing party. that pretty much defines all four indictments against donald trump, particularly the criminal case that is so absurd being brought by alvin bragg right now in manhattan. larry: pam bondi, i got a minute

left. first of all you have to come to new york for this crazy alvin bragg trial. alvin bragg, he has this guy, what's his name, colangelo, number three guy in the justice department which i think links him to biden, that is separate subject, but pam, what they're saying now, a misdemeanor, plus a misdemeanor equal as felony. they have been trying to find a felony here the whole time. they cannot find a federal felony. they decide two new york state misdemeanors no law has been broken, so obscure equal as felony. i think this is just, this is just nut tedder than harry truman taking over the steel mills. >> larry, it isn't. it's been very clear the department of justice initially decline towed prosecute this case. the southern district of new york declined to prosecute this case. the statute of limitations has long run of this case. therefore they had to join misdemeanors together turn them

into 34 felonies to be even within the time frame to go after president trump. jack smith is trying to push, they're all trying to push these cases. alvin bragg is trying to push his case. they all want to push these cases, they want him in trial. like he is in trial today. he couldn't be sitting in front of the supreme court today. that is where he should been today listening to oral arguments because they're trying to rush everything to have him tied up which is the ultimate election interference. larry: yes, ma'am, pam bondi, gregg jarrett, thank you ever so much. switching gears we go from i have don't know from one bad to another. what is so bad about coal which the bidens now want to ban all together? let's ask rich nolan, vice president and ceo of the national mining association. rich, thanks for coming on. these latest emissions, epa emissions rules squeezed coal mans, the way, they will take

out coal, oil, and natural gas, no new natural gas plants according to this too. there isn't going to be any electricity to power any economic growth in this country. i don't get it. i want to get your take, what you can do about it? >> well, thanks, larry, thanks for having me on. today's announcement by the biden administration dealt a massive blow to affordable, reliable american mined energy in this country. all at the very time that we have a surging demand in electricity for everything from a.i. data centers to the electric vehicles, reshoring of the manufacturing. all this is going to require massive amounts of energy and we need it all. this is at the very time where electricity inflation is already jumped 28% in the last three years. it makes no sense to shut down one of the optionalities that we have which is coal based power in this country. it is still 16%, the majority

power source in over 12 states. coal is mined in 21 with an average job of $91,000 in payroll, representing over 300,000 jobs in this country, direct and indirect. the country needs to understand what's happening here. we're getting well--running coal power plants shut down by these rules. technology standards that can't be achieved. everyone knows that. they're doing the same thing to natural gas now. larry: you know the costs here, you are can calculate, they're trying to, i read some epa numbers, i frankly don't believe a word of it. i once participated in those exercises. their economists are very biased but the point is, you've got to have power to grow the economy. that's all i'm saying. if you can make coal cleaner, fine. we already have the cleanest oil in the world. of course we have natural gas. that is a clean burning fuel. even the european union acknowledged that even though

biden and his greenies will never acknowledge that they're trying to shut down all of that? what we're using 13th century dutch wind mills? i'm not against dutch windmills by the way. i don't think that will power 30 trillion-dollar economy. >> this is exactly right. this is happening at the very time renewables are supposed to be rushing onto the market because they can't get the permits. they can't get the financing, they can't get the materials. inflation is through the roof. what are we doing? we're tearing down our efficient coal plants at the very time when we need them. we're tearing down our house before we have a new one built. this is all out of sync. the technology isn't? place. we have need to catch our breath. let the adults get back in the room to slow this down. larry: i believe that the adults are coming. trying to stop lng exports. the cavalry is coming. rich knoll land, thanks for coming on the show. we appreciate it. we'll take a break. up next, net neutrality is back.

this will destroy the internet. government control of communications, no profits, no investment, no nothing. we'll talk about it with the guy who stopped this nonsense in the trump administration. my pal former fcc chair ajit pai. someone has to have the power, someone needs to grow the economy because 13th centuryr windmill will nobot be arlem? enough.

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larry: all right the fcc under biden wants net neutrality. so they will try to bring it back and it will destroy the internet in my judgment. to talk about it former fcc chair ajit pai, who ended the net neutrality. they will try to control prices, they will try to control profits. seems what they will happen is, there won't be any new investment the internet was faster under your regime when you were the fcc chair. we're going to lose that advantage too. what do you think about this? why are they doing this? >> well it is a complete waste of time. unfortunately though, net neutrality is now part of the civic religion for certain left-wing activists an politicians. so the fcc is taking heed of that, trying to come up with new

justifications like national security or privacy or things like that, to justify this power grab. it is unfortunate as commissioner carr pointed out today. the internet is better than ever as a result of the decisions we made in the previous administration, the internet is faster, it is cheaper in real terms, there is no competition than ever before. there is no problem fcc needs to solve here but it is what it is unfortunately. larry: broadband construction, we have to still think about, you know, things like 5g and selling off assets in space that will allow more of 5g build out. why would you invest all that money, if you know the regulatory agency, the fcc, they will police your profits? they will probably ask them to submit blueprints with dei specifications on that. you imagine the hoops you will have to trump through. therefore nothing is going to get done. the usa will fall behind. >> larry you put your finger on

two really important points. the first is, of course if you're going going innovate and entrepreneur this space raise capital, you have to have the certainly that the government will not come in and completely destroy your building plan. that is at risks with the regulation the fcc is proposing. these areas were just in their infancy when we got into office. we enabled those innovations to thrive because we had a light touch approach. now you wonder what is the next 5g or starlink going to be when you have this utility style regulation. it is a way to impede kind of competition and innovation that benefits consumers. larry: ajet, can this get busted up in court this regulation because congress has not mandated it? >> it hasn't. i would expect a supreme court, or lower court to block the fcc decision on major questions doctrine. a fcc is terming a law 90 years

old, trying to shoehorn 21st technology into 20th century framework. the supreme court says if the decision will be made, it has to be made in the first instance for congress. that is what they apply to other agencies. the fcc will be no different. larry: internet auctions will be a bust. we raised a lot of money. you mad some great actions, nobody will play if they think they will be dictated to. there will be broadband specifications, digital equity requirements. you can see it now. there will be profits. they will try to curb profit margins, the whole nine yards. that is what a disaster it will be. that is exactly what we didn't want. >> exactly, especially an area like telecom where there are very high up front capital expenditures. running the business is really difficult. especially a country like america trying to get unserved people on the line. it will be more difficult to make that business work. larry: ajit pai, former fcc, we

appreciate it

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advisory serial regulators, i don't mean kellogg's. they are stopping power, electricity, they are stopping national security, economic growth. it is here insanity. anyway. i need to be seen again by watching liz mcdonald. >> thank you, larry he's never