and republicans love to regulate on this. one of the things they can actually all agree on. they're getting disintermediated in the credit space, low volatility period forting, that will probably be a crimp on profits. not that we hate financials. they're well-run, they're not very risky. we think we're in a good part of market cycle and they're unlikely to keep up. liz: citi the big leader today up 2 1/2%. great to see you, scott. folks here is the bell. that went quickly. [closing bell rings] we have the s&p at a brand new record as well as nasdaq. tomorrow after the bell we have got nvidia earnings. google, alphabet hitting an all-time high today. larry: hello, folks, welcome to "kudlow," i'm larry kudlow. the prosecution and the defense have both rested their cases. the alvin bragg trial and trump is no longer, no, trump is looking stronger than ever, all right, stronger than ever.

we'll head to the courthouse in just a moment. then senator jd vance waiting in the wings to talk about all this. now let's go straight to jonathan turley, gw law professor, our favorite constitutional scholar and a fox news contributor. jonathan, what are you thinking here? closing arguments, who is being treated well, who is not being treated well? give us a hint. >> well, the defense continues to struggle with this judge who is ruling largely with the prosecution. that's continuing in this hearing dealing with the instructions in the case. that's a very important stage in this trial. how he instructs the jury own the law could well dictate the outcome in this case. the government is trying very hard to adopt lower standards for the jury, including arguing that they don't have to prove a

willful intent on all of the elements before the jury, to establish a crime. that would make it much more likely they could convict. i was just in the courtroom with former president trump. he is taking a very active role in this. he is passing notes to his attorneys. he is being obviously very attentive as they debate what the standards should be in these instructions to the jury. larry: well, jonathan, can you carve that up a little bit, break that down a little bit more. i was reading your commentary, other commentaries, this fellow brad smith from the federal election commission who was not allowed to testify yesterday or today for that matter, telling columnist byron york and others that the charges against trump would never have been with held

by the federal election commission. he didn't commit a crime. personal matters. none of this would have amounted to a crime. they wouldn't let him testify. my question, costello, mike cohen's former lawyer, he testified and ripped cohen to pieces. is the judge trying to rule out what these people are saying, particularly costello, but even with the federal election commission, brad smith who said this is not a crime, is that what the judge is doing? >> well, he has effectively blocked obviously smith from testifying by saying he could only testify to issues that really are not central to the allegations against trump. what smith was saying is what many of us has said, which there was no federal election offense here. the department of justice looked at this, decided not to bring charges. the federal election commission didn't even find a basis for a civil fine. and this judge has allowed the

jury to hear repeatedly from michael cohen and david pecker and the prosecutors that there was election violations. i'm quite confident they believe there were violations which is not true. what the judge is saying is they will continue to be able to argue that from the government and what smith wanted to tell the jury among other things was that none of this makes any sense because under the federal election laws if you, once this money was paid to stormy daniels they didn't have to report that, even if it were a contribution until after the election. so this couldn't have been an effort to rig the election, because even if it was treated as a campaign contribution it wouldn't have been revealed until after the election. so none of it holds water according to smith. and from what i can see he is

absolutely right. the problem is this jury has a very misleading understanding what's happened here. part of this is actually a setup by the prosecutors including the southern district of new york. they had cohen plead guilty to a federal campaign contribution violation. most of us believe that cohen wouldn't have been found guilty of that but at that point he had already agreed he would plead guilty. it would not change any sentence for him in all likelihood, so they added that and that's the reason they're now allowing the prosecutors to keep on referencing these violations. most of us do not believe that cohen would have been convicted on the contribution issue but most certainly trump couldn't have been convicted and still wouldn't be convicted and that was obviously the conclusion of the department of justice. larry: just, one other thing,

did the defense make clear that the non-disclosure agreements were not illegal and did not amount to a campaign contribution? i mean i'm not the lawyer but it just seems to me that is the nub of the case. the non-disclosure agreements were not illegal and they did not amount to campaign contributions at the state level or the federal level, jonathan turley. help us out on those please? >> that's the problem is that the jury has heard that non-disclosure agreements occur quite commonly including agreements that were cut by pecker where he would kill stories for other celebrities. in fact he was doing this for trump before he ever announced he would be running for president. the problem is that you have this, sort of frankenstein case of alvin bragg. he has pieced together a dead misdemeanor, zapped it back into life as a felony and he has been

very ambiguous did what the crime was that was supposedly being concealed here. and so all of that is likely getting lost here in the noise of this indictment. the defense is struggling to get the judge to bring greater clarity so that the jury understands these points. the judge was largely ruling with the prosecution. we still have a lot of issues the judge is taking on advisement. so we won't have all those answers today. the judge is obviously going to be issuing orders later. larry: jonathan turley, thank you, very, very much. we appreciate it. >> thank you. larry: folks we switch gears a little bit. joe biden gave a disgraceful speech to the morehouse college graduates in atlanta, georgia, last weekend. that is the subject of the riff. joe biden should be ashamed of himself giving a racist, dedifference vice i have,

defeatist, condescending speech at the morehouse college graduation. essentially biden is saying to the african-american graduates of a very distinguished historical black college that america is racist and you are all set to fail. this is an awful message and does a great disservice to one of america's finest schools and its graduates. biden talked about white supremacy, systemic racism and george floyd and black men being killed in the street. republicans don't want blacks to vote, even though by the way the deep south state of georgia just featured two black men as u.s. senate nominees. well, i've got news for mr. biden, this is 2024. it is not the old jim crow south and contrary to joe biden's pessimistic racial characterizations the reality is that morehouse grads do very well in life, thankfully. for example, the average

starting salary among all college graduates is $68,516 but the average starting salary for morehouse grads is $76,543, 12% higher than the national average and, their high paid starting jobs include a guilt edge list of employees deloitte, path none capital, major league baseball, bmo harris bank, cigna, google, lockheed martin, mckenzie, amazon, at&t. big hat tip to the daily call irfor this. pardon my french i would say that is a pretty damn good list. an instead of encouraging these grads, urging them on, joe biden is essentially telling them they will never make it and that is completely wrong. i have got some other statistics.

the unemployment rate for black men under donald trump got as low 4.9% which was a 50-year low, and in fairness to joe biden who is so patently unfair, today the unemployment rate for black men is still a low 5.2%, almost as low as the trump years. pair enthreat i cannily, trump handed biden a pretty high-powered economy driven by rock bottom inflation and low tax rates and despite biden's best efforts to undermine the trump economy blacks continue to do very well, but, defight the low unemployment rate the biggest hurdle for black americans is the same as for whites, hispanics or acre shuns, shuns -- asians, it is the affordability crisis. during the biden presidency prices have gone up significantly higher than wages. as real wages decline for middle, income, lower working

families, borrowing costs for cars, homes, credit cards have shot up. inflation is the cruelest tax of all, robbing people of their wealth and well-being. saying biden-flation is the cruelest tax of all. thinks polling numbers for blacks and everyone else has gone so far south. mr. biden who has a very checkered past regarding race relations including his former association with dixiecrat southern democrats, who opposed all the civil rights legislation for many years in the u.s. senate. biden is not going to improve his current standing with black voters by harkening back to a jim crow era of racism and white supremacy that no longer exists. that is why his speech to morehouse college was such a disgrace. instead, he should apologize to those young men who are going to be future leaders. all right? that is my riff. all right, joining us now, great

pleasure, ohio senator jd vance. senator vance, welcome back to the show. we have to talk about a bunch of things. i'm glad you're here. first of all, let me just hit the riff, all right? i want to get to the trial in a minute. let me hit the riff. i thought biden's speech was a disgrace as i said. he is doing a enormous disservice. morehouse is a fabulous college. their graduates do better than the national average for heaven's sakes, he is trying to harken back as though today is 1950s or something worse and jim crow. what do you make of this stuff? >> you're exactly right, larry, this is a disgrace. congratulations to the graduates. i feel terrible for them own graduation they had to sit and listen to joe biden. importantly, larry, what joe biden can't do, he can't run on idea of lowered inflation, brought down the cost of food. he can't tell the graduates it is easier to start a small business because borrowing costs are down. he can't tell them it is easier to start a home if they want to start a young family because on

all those issues shoo he failed where donald trump succeeded. what he is trying to do, i think insulting to the graduates, distract them from the fact he is a failure of a president, pointing to racism, tell them they should feel like victims rather than be mad at him for a set of policies that made america worse off. this is the most destructive part of this entire victim mentality taking over the democratic party, represented in biden's speech, larry, one of the healthiest things, best things we can tell the young people whether you were a dealt a great hand or a crappy hand you should feel gratitude. nobody is made better by feeling like they are a victim and they are owed something. we got to tell people to be thankful for what they have, whatever it is they ultimately got. i think that is such an important lesson all leaders should be teaching. joe biden unfortunately is teaching the exact opposite. larry: your victim point is a good point. he is trying to make these kids into victims. they are not.

anyway morehouse's record is fabulous. this is another point. biden should be exhorting them with optimism, encouraging them to live the american dream and succeed and he is not. so your point is well-taken. but you know, this is going to be a grocery store, kitchen table type election. the affordability crisis is very real. real wages are down, prices are up, interest rates and borrowing is up. biden failed on those issues, so he is resorting to this cheap racist charge. >> that is exactly right, larry, and as you know the engine of real job creation and wealth creation in our country is small business formation and it's so hard to start a small business in this country right now because interest rates are through the roof. we also know that one of the other main ways american families especially middle class generates wealth is by owning a home. you have got tons of young families across the state of ohio, pennsylvania, michigan, who can't get into the starter

home, because thanks to his inflationary policies interest rates are through the roof. larry i want to live in a country where people can get married, have children, put that family in a home that they can afford. i want them to earn a wage that can support a family at a good job. every single dimension of the economy has degraded under joe biden and he can't fess up to it. you know i almost just wish, i would respect him more, larry, you know what, we tried some things out, they were a failure, we'll try to take this country in a different direction. that is not what he is doing, which is why, larry we really, really need to take this country in a different direction come november. larry: sort of bill clinton reset but it never came and biden keeps getting pulled by the bernie sanders wing, the far left-wing of the party, you're right. just a word, i know you were down at the trump trial. jonathan turley was just reporting as we've heard from others, that the judge seemed to be favoring the prosecution over the defense. do you have a quick thought on

that one, senator? >> unfortunately turley is right on that, on every single ruling it seems, the judge, who of course was abide a biden harris campaign owner, showed a bias against donald trump. it has come a at the expense of donald trump but the cause of justice. larry, democrat, republican, biden voter, trump voter, we can't accept the principle that the president of the united states and the democrats get to jail their opponents. this is not okay. if we allow this to continue, we'll wake up in a third world banana republic. we need to fight back against it whatever our politics. larry: speaking of third world, i want to ask but the open borders, catastrophe of the open borders. rumored is a biden executive order which he said he had no power to do, but suddenly discovered the power that would allow 4,000 illegals a day which comes to something like 1 1/2 million a year.

if you go to 4,001 or up to 5,000 he will shut the border down. i don't know if anybody believes that. then i read in the papers this morning, senator chuck schumer is going to take another look at this misbegotten immigration bill that failed earlier before. senator vance, do you have thoughts on this stuff? is million 1/2 illegals okay? does anybody think there is a crisis down there? will anybody exercise any real leadership? is anything going to happen? >> unfortunately i don't think there is, larry. we have to remember that joe biden ran on undoing everything single one of donald trump's border policies. he ran on ending "remain in mexico." he ran on ending a number of trump administration policies that brute some sense of stability to the southern border. and then he gets in there. he does exactly what he promises and then exactly what we knew would happen, actually happens. you have a terrible border crisis. you have millions of people flooding across.

number of people dying from fentanyl overdoses. now all of sudden joe biden cares about border security. not because he recognizes this is a crisis. he recognizes that the polling is so bad. one last thing on this, larry, chuck schumer is talking about a border security bill that does nothing to secure the border. barack obama, last democrat president, paroled 5000 illegal aliens. joe biden is paroling a million per year. this border bill does nothing about parole. it does nothing about "remain in mexico." importantly, larry, it gives the ability to grant asylum claims over to liberals within the at administrative bureaucracy. it will actually make the border crisis worse. but what it does do is it gives democrats the opportunity to say look, we care about the border even though they're doing exactly the opposite of securing the border. we have to fight back against this stuff in the senate, larry. all republicans should be on deck. this is political opportunity for democrats that will actually make the border crisis even

worse. it is a lose-lose proposition. just one more, i don't hear any reference to deporting criminals, back to wherever they came from, which i think is a big issue among american voters, what you think? >> it's absolutely a big issue among american voters. we probably have right now, 20, 25 million illegal ail wednesday in this country. if you're not willing to to deport the worst of the worst, criminal migrants, people that killed innocent americans, then the message that you send to other criminals all over the world is, so long as you get across joe biden's open border we'll never send you back. we have to enforce our border, larry and that starts with the willingness to deport people who have broken our laws. if we can't do that, we don't have a country. we're inviting a border invasion to continue in the next administration. larry: senator vance, you're terrific. thank you for coming back on. everyone around the place will yell at me if i don't ask you at least one question.

if the vice-presidentialal nomination were offered to you by mr. trump would you take it? >> i think it is very, very important to take our country in a different direction, larry. i will be interested in helping out however i can. larry: good answer. jd vance, terrific stuff. we appreciate it sir. >> bye-bye. larry: coming up "bidenomics" 2.0, be afraid, very afraid. we have steve moore, douglas holtz-eakin. regulations by the way are just struggilng the economy and very important. they will tell us how we can make the economy. i'm kudlow.et we'll be righthe back. elp you me the right investment and benefit choices. so you can reach today's financial goals and look forward to a more confident future. voya, well planned, well invested, well protected.

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160 billion. so trump's fell enormously, 160 billion. biden is up 1.6 trillion. paperwork hours increasing under mr. biden, 292 million, mr. trump, 74 million. so, is there any end to this and right to the end they just keep piling this on? is that what's happening? >> there appears to be no end to it. we kept track since day one of these administration at some point, during mr. trump's administration, they reduced the regulatory burden. it is something i didn't think could be done. one of the great accomplishments of the administration. biden did this one than barack obama did in two, which is hard to wrap your arms around. this is an onslaught of

unprecedented proportions and it is really hard on small businesses, it is hard on every business that is trying to control costs. they will have to pass these costs along. we don't need that in this inflationary environment this is real a keel lease heel for "bidenomics." this is not partisan. this is adding up the numbers and it is a problem. larry: steve moore, you can argue it is blunting growth and causing higher inflation. you have a lot of regulatory inflation built into business activity. the bidens don't like business activity. they're always railing against businesses and blaming them for all that ails us but it looks like there is no end to it? >> yeah, you know, they don't like businesses. you know what else they don't like, larry, and this will really, you know, make you angry. they don't like profits. larry: right. >> they think that the reason we have inflation is because companies are making too much money. if they get rid of profits we

won't have inflation problem. of course we won't have businesses or jobs without profits. you used to say the profits are the mother's milk ever the stock market. let's be specific by the way. i love doug's report. just last week the biden administration said we'll not allow anymore coal development in some of the richest coal areas in the world in states like wyoming and montana. come on. we get a third of our energy from coal around the world and he is not going to allow development. another one, he wants to regulate the internet for the first time ever. he wants to basically require every single american car company to only make electric vehicles, even though most americans don't want to buy an electric vehicle. i could go on and on. these are real costs to families. i make one if i could, applaud your opening statement not just dreadful, but unpatriotic speech by your president. you know these statistics i want to make sure our viewers do too.

under donald trump lowest unemployment rate ever for black americans. lowest poverty rate ever for black americans. the biggest income gains ever for black americans. how dare they say he is a racist? larry: just, it is not so much that trump is a racist although that is implied i suppose but that racism runs the country. this is some kind of white supremist jim crow country. that is not true. blacks have done very, very well as attested by the data we put in the riff and you're echoing. >> that's right. larry: and actually, you know doug holtz-eakin just on this subject, we went through morehouse college grads their first year jobs is 12%, 12% higher pay than the national average with a gilt-edged list of employers. so trump, i mean, biden is not only being racist on this he is also wrong, factually. they're doing great.

but you know, it would be nice if we didn't regulate all the small owner operated businesses out of business you know, in the next four years under a second biden administration. i think, i mean, i think the regulatory story, doug, is unheralded. it the reason we love having you on the show. i don't think there is ever enough attention paid to the benefits of deregulation and the demerits of reregulation and this is where the bidens have achieved unbelievable reregulation across the board. i will leave it to you to describe it. this is unfortunately one of their greatest achievements. >> well, and they are certainly trying to cement it. so one of the things that's going on right now is they are pushing regulation out the door as fast as they can if it turns out to be the case donald trump is elected president, republicans coal the house and senate, they can't role regulations back. they do it in the midnight hour, late in his term they can be

rolled back. they saw that in 2017. they're trying to make sure all of this, 1.6 trillion plus stays on the books and as a result would be a permanent burden on companies affected. we tracked this since the american action forum was opened. there has never been anything like the past couple years on the regulatory front. just want to have one footnote on something steve moore said of the whole notion of grade inflation, that has been debunked by san francisco fed. they said there is nothing there. larry: profits are the mother's milk of stock and the lifeblood of the economy. you can't expand unless you're making money. i have to get out. you're both great. steve moore, doug holtz-eakin, thank you ever so much, fellows. next up on kudlow more on the trump trial with alan dershowitz "kudlow". na help me? dad: aim at the wall, but get closer.

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♪. larry: so in the trump trial why does the judge keep favoring the prosecution over the defense? joining us now, alan dershowitz, professor emeritus at harvard law school. professor dershowitz, welcome back. you were in the courtroom yesterday, you unleashed about this. tell us some more. how biased is this story? >> well it is as biased i have ever seen a judge be. i was sitting in the front row and i saw him go berserk when costello raised his eyebrows after the judge made ruling after ruling, that was unfair. i raised my eyebrows. i stared at the judge. the judge did something i have never seen in my 60 years practicing all over the world, he said to this key witness, i will strike your testimony and not allow you to testify if you ever look at me again that way. now donald trump didn't do anything wrong. that would be depriving trump of

his right to a defense under the sixth amendment. this judge in one day violated more constitutional rights and made more unlawful rulings in the eight hours i was in the courtroom that day than i have seen in months and months and months of trials. i don't know whether the judge is influenced by his daughter, making money off of trump conviction or whether he just comes to the case with an extreme bias but the way he treated that lawyer, costello, i have never seen a judge do that to a distinguished lawyer who used to be the head, deputy head of the criminal division of the justice department. shame, shame, shame on that judge and he ought to be taken to the woodshed by the bar association and some sanctions ought to be imposed on him. how dare he threaten to not allow donald trump to put on a witness because the judge didn't like the way he looked at him. you know what it reminds me of. taxi driver, hey, are you looking at me, are you looking

at me? the judge -- schizophrenic, you looking at me strange i will strike his testimony, if it is his courtroom rather than the courtroom of the people of the city of new york. larry: professor dershowitz, is it possible to gauge the jury's reaction to all of that? >> yeah. juries love judges and marchon is a benevolent tyrant. he runs the courtroom tyrannically, but he seems so nice, when the jury is there he puts on a nice face. then throws the jury out, throws all the media out and he goes nuts. unfortunately for some bizarre reason i wasn't thrown out. when all the media was thrown out i sat in the front row. i watched how angry he was, how biases he was. i wish the case was on television so everybody could see it. by the way this trial is being televised. i saw the television cameras in the courtroom. the only problem is the only people who can see the television version are people in

the overflow room who are media. the american public ought to be able to see how this judge is handling this trial. larry: just in the last minute, sir, is there any way do you think mr. trump has the upper hand, the lower hand, how do you see this verdict? >> i don't think he has the upper hand because this is a new york jury. if this were a jury in staten island or manhattan, rockland county he would be out of there in 15 minutes of jury deliberation there. there is no credible evidence that he himself knew that the payments would be listed in a corporate form as legal expenses rather than as remuneration for what was paid previously. there is just no evidence and the only evidence of any kind involves the credibility of michael key hen. i sat, i literally two inches of away from cohen. i saw him life after lie. i would never accept a pardon from donald trump. he told his lawyer he would do

anything to avoid prison. steal, lie, cheat. they were he in court i wouldn't accept a pardon from donald trump. total nonsense. i hope the jury sees through it this is outrageous prosecution whether you're a democrat or republican, pro-trump, anti-trump, you ought to be outraged the way our legal system is being manipulated for partisan political purposes. larry: thank you, professor dershowitz, we appreciate it as always, sir. hope to see you soon. >> thank you. larry: let's switch gears, monica crowley host of the monica crowley podcast. alec lace, host of the alec lace show. kids, i have one for you, young voters are not as liberal as you think. very interesting. and some of the numbers, this is by ray teixeira, some of the numbers are absolutely staggering. among the youngest of the young, biden is only plus eight. i mean he used to be plus 23. when you go up he is only plus

12, between 30 and 49. then he actually, when you get to people -- wait 30 to 49 trump is ahead by two percentage points. they're not as liberal as you think. among can crowley, you're young at heart, age, what do you make of this. >> still young. it is pretty astonishing we've seen this political realignment been very dramatic, starting in 2015, 2016 when donald trump first came along the scene. we're seeing a dramatic hemorrhaging of support away from the democrat party in all core constituencies, black voters, hispanic voters, asian-americans, but the most dramatic is the younger voters. i think there are a lot of elements to it, a lot of moving parts to explain it. part is what is going on in the middle east. more so, larry, the economic situation in this country. joe biden has been a historic catastrophe economically for all demographic groups. if you are a young person and

you want to access the american dream, you see it slipping away because of inflation, because of out of control government spending. your ability to buy a house, start a family, start a small business, advance in your career, that seems relatively out of touch for the younger voters. larry: let's look at the poll, on immigration, alec, not as liberal as you think. on crime, not as liberal as you think. on oil and gas and fossil fuels, not as liberal as you think. wait, here's the best part, the ranking, this is the age, 18 to 29. this is gen-z, right? are you again z? >> no. larry: i'm not again gen-z in case anyone was. what is number unissue, inflation, 84%. health care, 59%. housing 56%. how does climate change do, 3/4 of biden's policy, it is the 12

issue. how does student debt do, biden's biggest illegality, 16th issue. it is the bottom issue, okay. so, i would say their concerns are the same as concerns of everybody. no wonder they're not so liberal. >> i think monica hit it out of the park there you and senator vance talked about this too the economic situation. thee are young people coming out of college, starting their lives, they have entry level johns with entry level pay and they're being asked to pay ceo type salary rent. so they're getting buried out there in the marketplace. another part of that poll too, they don't agree with this transgender ideology. they don't want men competing against women in sports. it is losing issue for young american people in the country. biden is try toing placate both sides of israel, hamas debate. there r good people on both sides. if you look at both sides, they're saying fjb. he is losing touch with americans in this country. hem ranking voters in the black community, his pan i can

community, looks like the ship is crumb brink for joe biden. larry: this poll, "gallup poll," moderate group, so-called gallup group, 18 to 29, the biggest cohort is moderates. 30 to 49, the biggest cohorts is to moderate. when you get to 50 and above, it becomes more conservative. it is very heartening that the kids are not whacked out level wing liberals. >> yeah. larry: that is the way they're being described by a lot of media outlets. it is not true. >> it is encouraging to see that. there is a split between younger american and younger women. younger women tend to be far more radical and far more extreatmentist and far more left-wing earnings really? >> young men continued to be far more conservative. i don't know what that means for mating and reproducing among that generation but it is true. you do see the split. among the presidential race a recent poll showing a 30 point swing among young voters where they went 25 points for joe biden back in 2020 and now

trump is leading among them by five points. larry: biden is losing ground with young people, blacks hispanics asia shuns, seriously. he is losing ground, alec, 20 second. >> depend hog trump decides to go with for vp, somebody like vivek ramaswamy connects very well with the young generation. could make a little bit of a difference if anything at all. my son, 18 years old, will vote for the first time is voting for donald j trump. larry: have him as a guest. be on the panel. monica crowley, thank you, alec lace. do higher commodity prices spell higher interest rates? we'll ask david malpass former head of the world bank when "kudlow" returns.

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larry: so here east question do rising commodities mean higher interest rates? the whole world expect the lower rates. joining us david malpass, former president of the world bank group. we put charts on the wall. we'll start out with whatever we start out with. crb is rising. gold is rising. crb is rising, six months plus. the price of gold is rising significantly. record highs if i'm not mistaken

and we'll throw in the price of copper as well. anyway, you're a federal reserve. you're a monetary expert. what do you make of this commodity rise? >> a couple of things. one is it reflects inflation, meaning you've gotten behind if you're trying to mine things, your costs have gone up. it also causes inflation. so from the standpoint of people in the country, the affordability problem is made that much worse. because unless you make commodities, which is not very many people, especially not in the u.s., there is no mining permits being given. the u.s. has this giant resources. if you mined it the price wouldn't be so high. we aren't doing that. china is buying it up, using it, selling it with a big profit back. that hurts workers. so i think it is basically bad and one more indication of inflation. larry: the consumers, commodities spread out, particularly energy commodities but all these commodities like copper, spreads out throughout the economy, so consumers of this pay for it.

so will it bleed into the inflation indexes? that is the next question? >> i think for sure it will. house prices go up. if you're building a new home, you're feeling the copper price. also electricity prices will have to go up. they will lag and so surely they will wait until after the election, to really put up utility prices but, electricity prices will have to go up. we're not doing a good job in the u.s. or really in many parts of the world on the grid. so there has to be a real introspection. larry: we're shutting down the base load. shutting down the base load which is natural gas for heaven as sake. shutting it down. california shutting it down. >> new england will have a shortage. think of the power, if the government said we're going to allow nuclear power and find a way to have permits go through, or on mining either one would be the productive side of the economy and it would make things better. larry: so from a federal reserve standpoint, we used to have a bunch of people, myself included

looked at commodity price rule. commodities go up the fed shut tighten a bit. commodities go down the fed shut loosen up. what do you make of that? is the fed behind the curve? >> it was really behind the curve from 2010 to 2020. so some part of this is catchup. we should recognize there is this thing going on. china, japan doing competitive devaluations. this is a complicated the situation. the dollar is on the strong side against other currencies but against commodities it's on the weak side. so i think you have to look at the production side of the economy and say, we want to produce more commodities. so that's the barrier side. you've got to look at nuclear and you've got to think about, that -- larry: fed shouldn't move? you're saying the fed -- >> certainly shouldn't be cutting rates in the face of rising commodity prices. larry: right. >> that's the mistake jimmy

carter made in the 1970s. remember how dramatic it was. oh, if we just hold down interest rates costs will go down. they went straight through the roof. larry: got to be fed chairman. if you're a fed chairman, so you would keep rates steady. >> keep them steady. larry: you ought to jawbone, japan and china for devaluing their currency. that is unfair trading practices is it not. >> it is. i was undersecretary of treasury. that was one of the issues we had to contend with but i think also you have to say you are defending the dollar and treasury should be saying that now. that would be a position of strength. larry: i like that. >> the economy has to produce. it is not the fed's fault now we're getting inflation. it was their fault last decade. larry: david mall sass, the best of the best. thank you, buddy appreciate it very much. will be right back with the last word.

larry: you know, trump spoke to morehouse, you'd hear encourage. , optimism, make america great again. you wouldn't hear divisiveness or racism. joe biden owes those kids an apology for what he did at morehouse college. all right, david asman is in for liz macdonald. no apologies there. david: but it was such a bleak, i mean, above everything else, it had nothing to do with america, the dream, which is what you and and i have been fighting for all of days. larry: thank you, david, good man. david: i'm david asman in for