a rough business and it is going to get rougher. i mean we're in it too. you and i. liz: exempt for fox business, smooth sailing [laughter]. >> we're killing it, yes, yes. liz: we are killing it, the markets at least, the bulls not so much. the bears totally in control, in the back half of the session. [closing bell rings] the dow looks to close down 624 points. tomorrow bitcoin foundation chairman brock pierce and brunswick corp. ceo david folks will join us. we'll see you tomorrow. larry: hello, folks, welcome to "kudlow," i'm larry kudlow. so donald trump campaigning tonight with a shot across joe biden's bronx bow. how's that? in just a moment we're all going to the south bronx, and that includes rich lowery, tammy bruce, who knows who else. senator marco rubio will pay us a visit and i hate to say it,

we'll have to report on it, today's dow down 605 points and falling at the close. now, first up our own madison alworth live from the bronx. madison, how is it up there? i'm dying to know. nobody would let me go. i wanted to go but they wouldn't let me go. >> reporter: larry, i'm sorry for taking your spot, don't worry i got the news. we've been here for hours. as you can see behind me, the stage is set, crowds are starting to come come in. we saw people lining up as early as 9:30 to see the former president speak. he is set to take the stage around 6:00 p.m. tonight. the tonight's event in the south bronx comes off the heels of a very crowded wildwood, new jersey rally. at this point i would say we're looking at thousands of people still waiting in line going through metal detectors before they make their way in. we got here early. i talked to some of those voters many in line, some who are latin and black americans. what they tell me that the

president chose south bronx as tonight's event. many are upset with the border issue because their families immigrated legally. others voted blue in the past. with issues like crime in new york city they are going to vote with president trump. i asked voters about the ongoing trials, no matter what happens they plan to support him in november. the president seems to be closing that gap. latest sienna polling biden leads nine points here in the empire states. polls are one thing, larry, as we know talking to voters is whole other thing. something i consistently heard from voters here they're so happy he chose to have an event in new york city, specifically in the south bronx, an area that is typically quite brew. they came out to quote, show him love. they want to show the president they're happy he chose this location. based off of the crowds there are a lot of people that feel that way. larry? larry: madison, how many do you think will come?

they said 3500, it will be a lot more than that, isn't it? >> reporter: honestly i think some this morning in new york we had really bad rhine around 10:00 a.m. there were still people here at that time hours ahead of the event. i have a view of lines waiting to go through security, hundreds of people. i think we'll easily hit that number, 3500. once everyone is in i will have a more accurate count. we're talking about in the thousands. larry: easy. oops, that was wildwood. madison alworth, thank you very much. folks in the summer of 1980 candidate ronald reagan went to the south bronx to campaign. guess were? it was only two blocks from kitona park where donald trump is scheduled to rally tonight. reagan criticized hapless jimmy carter failed to revitalize areas comparing it to go london

in world war ii. if elected president again he intends to revitalize the cities through enterprise zones, lower taxes, liberating small minority-owned businesses from the biden burdens of regulatory red tape, and a new era of law and order, including closing the catastrophic border, illegal immigration problem and backing school choice. now reagan back in that summer of 1980, blasted carter for hyperinflation and promised to deregulate oil, and slash tax rates. he did. and oil prices crashed and the economy soared. trump will be blasting biden tonight over high inflation and as promised to restore drill, baby, drill in order to bring down high energy prices and conquer inflation. both reagan and trump pledged to make america strong again at home and abroad. mr. reagan carried new york by 3 percentage points in his 44

state landslide in 1980 and in 1984, he carried new york by nine points in his 49-state uber landslide. i have no idea if mr. trump can carry new york but i do know he is only down nine points in a recent poll compared to a 23-point loss back in 2020. i also know that mr. trump's rally in the south bronx tonight is sending a messages nationwide, a shot across the country, working man's coalition, based on economy, crime, immigration is going to be making huge inroads into biden democrats old time minority coalition. just like reagan did. all right. that's the riff tonight. for more on all of this we just held the buses for one moment in order to bring in rich lowery, editor chief in "national review," tammy bruce, fox news contributor.

tammy, welcome back. we should be up there. we could still get in. >> there is yankee game earlier tonight. larry: the yanks are playing. >> they already played. we could have gone to the game and to the rally with a show to do. larry: 45,000 people. my saintly wife's art studio is right there, next to that. tammy, a shot across the bow. this is not just about new york. this is national shot across joe biden's bow i think. >> it is. you look at both campaign. joe biden moving to go to blue states, to maintain them shore up the base. here is donald trump going to someplace, like "star trek" where republican man has never gone before except for reagan. this is what i think really, resonated in 2016, when trump told black americans in particular, what do you have to lose? and the problem with republicans there has been generally an abandonment of certain areas in cities and states to the democrats, presuming they could never be won.

that's an attitude that is it is horrible, it is incorrect and people, not only want a choice, but they want to know, they want to have some kind of a symbol, that you are genuinely interested in them because that's what it will take to get this country back on their feet. this is the kind of move that does that. it signals to the rest of the country the strength of trump, the fact that he is, once again looking to expand not just his coalition, but the american coalition. who can we all relate to that all of us could be at that rally and be brothers and sisters together in that space. larry: kind of a unity coalition, which is a very good slogan of his. rich lowery, it is interesting, i don't know if mr. trump will carry new york or not, i'm not smart enough to go, he has a lot in common with reagan coalition. one thing overlooked in the trump policy messaging his insistence we revitalize cities. talks about it all the time.

never gets much play but it is true. he talks about, yes, lower taxes, deregulation of the minority-owned businesses, he talks about enterprise zones. that was a very big deal in his first term. he loved to expand it in the second term. he talks about school choice. >> yep. larry: of course and bring back crime with law and order. >> you can't have thriving cities with high levels of crime. what has been happening what we're seeing in the polling is potential trump voters among latinos and black voters. he has to go get them. he has to do events like this. they have to do the work to get-out-the-vote. this is he rook ahn is against the left. took the average latino male, do you agree with the traditional fdr more or larry kudlow more, probably with the fdr democrat. you say, are you with the woke democrat or are you with larry kudlow? they're with larry kudlow, right? larry: oh. >> with trump residual cultural affiliation with democrats among these voters, trump transcends

the republican democrat thing. not for usual republican because his own personal brand is so strong. >> great point. >> his predilection attitudes has more in common with average latino male then a member of the hispanic caucus in the house. larry: be fairness, go back in time mr. trump started out a queens construction worker in his father's business, i don't deny it, he was on the construction crews in queens. to some ex-estimate to his credit, to the point where people can identify with him, he still has a lot of queens in him and you see that all the time. i think people will identify that. queens is not so far from the bronx, tammy bruce. >> this is why that guy who had never done politics before, goes to washington, being able to handle what it is they're throwing at him because he dealt with new york his entire life. it requires you, pushes you into dealing with everyone in trying to understand everyone, at least negotiating with finding out what matters to people and

packings gnat enough about it to where it doesn't bore you. you care about that. it excites you. that's the nature of donald trump which they still don't understand. he is not a guy who is changing from a primary campaign to a general campaign, what do the people want, lick his finger look in the polls, where the wind is, he is just himself to this day. he is the same guy that came down the escalator. so you know what you're going to get. none of this is a surprise except of course for the left who like to pretend -- >> border is also a huge part of this. traditionally latinos generally pro-immigration. "cbs poll" of arizona, trump ahead five points this weekend, asked, are recent immigrants better for the country or worse for the country, latino voters saying they're worse. they are bringing chaos. no one knows who they are. their family members waited in line came the right way, what right do these people have just to walk in the country. that obviously plays into a

occur trump strength. larry: just last quick thought. bottle him up in a courtroom like they have. lord knows they try to do it again, but trump makes the best of it. this is, so he is having a rally in the park in bronx, south bronx, it is becoming a national rally, okay? people all over the country by the end of tonight are going to know what the park actually his in the south bronx. i mean i think that is pretty interesting stuff. >> it speaks to -- larry: just saying. >> speaks to who trump is. he is not looking dealing with all of this. everyone else who was generally targeted shrinking back, going into a corner. the system can destroy you. it tries to and sometimes it does. trump has something else that interests him beyond himself. that is what people see every day whether he is in court or at a park in the bronx. >> should have a live show in the south bronx. larry: wanted to go today. wouldn't let me out of there. yankee stadium is just around the corner.

rich lowery thank you. tammy bruce, thank you very much. folks coming up next on "kudlow," senator marco rubio on isis combing across the border and tax cuts and deregulation and beefing up defense. stay right here. marco rubio coming up flex. i'm "kudlow". (wife) saving for retirement was tough enough. (husband) and navigating markets can be challenging at times. (fisher investments) i understand. that's why at fisher investments, we keep a disciplined approach with your portfolio, helping you through the market's ups and downs. (husband) what about communication? (fisher investments) we check in regularly to keep you informed. (wife) which means you'll help us stay on track? (fisher investments) yes. as a fiduciary, we always put your interests first. because we do better when you do better. at fisher investments, we're clearly different. when enamel is gone, you cannot get it back. but you can repair it with pronamel repair. it penetrates deep into the tooth to actively repair acid weakened enamel. i recommend pronamel repair.

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larry: all right, illegals from all over the world flooding in through the border again. fox news bill melugin live in southern california with all the details. bill, what you got? >> reporter: well, larry, there is no resistance whatsoever here at the border in sanctuary state california. as you said people all around 9 planet pouring in here. got some behind us waiting right now. take a look at this video. this was a massive illegal crossing right here primarily chinese and turkish nationals, some bringing luggage with them. others coming in on the phone. we walked into the group tried to talk to some of them. others were friendly, others did not want to be on camera. take a listen. >> where are you from,. >> whine? china. >> china? >> china? >> what country are you from? >> india. >> where are you going. >> i'm going. >> you're in america, what city?

>> i don't know. >> you don't know? why did you come? >> i don't know. >> guys where are you from, china? >> you guys from china? china? hello, what country, china? no. china? so ended up being a group of about 100 again, primarily chinese and young men from turkey. we talked to one touringish man, essentially sold everything he had to be able to come here to the united states and cross the border. he told us he was shocked how easy it was, how there was no resistance when he crossed over. he said that americans should be worried that it was so easy. they should also worry about the kind of people crossing the border. take a listen. >> did you have to pay a cartel? >> yes. >> how much? >> 10,000. >> 10,000? in fact american people completely true. who are coming into this country. they don't, i'm good but how if they not good?

if they are killers. like, no security. no security check. no back drowned check. >> no security check, no background check. worried about who is crossing the border? >> yes of course. people are not normal. >> reporter: larry, something pretty remarkable just happened. you can see groups of illegal immigrants behind us waiting to be picked up by border patrol. waiting for hours. border patrol is overstretched right now. there are no agents. some colombians got tired of waiting. they called a lyft. a lyft came, picked them up drove them away. they will now be considered got-aways. they're gone. send it back to you. larry: bill melugin, great reporting, thank you ever so much. we appreciate it. folks staying with the border issues i spoke earlier today with florida senator marco rubio about that issue and a lot more. please take a listen. all right, we welcome back to the show florida senator

marco rubio. senator, we appreciate your time, thanks for coming back on, sir. >> thank you. thanks for having me back. larry: all right. you know, you have a piece up on fox digital couple days ago, biden's open border let's isis walk right into the u.s. and, i agree with you. i think this is a pretty major problem. the question is, what should we be doing about it? >> well, we have to stop the continued flow. i have no hope of that at this point because the biden administration is continuing to allow people to enter the country and has been releasing them. what they rely on, we vet everyone that is at the border. well they can't because if you, some of these parts of the world people come from we don't have any information about them. we have no databases from there. and, so we don't know if they're terrorists or here to do terrorism. if you just think about this, if it is nine, 10 million people, small percentage of them, come from all over the world, just a small percentage of them have been sent here to conduct terrorist attack, that's a lot

of people and that's a lot of terrorism. so i take the warnings, if you read between the lines with the fbi director has been saying repeatedly over the last couple months, this is perhaps, if not, one of the most dangerous moments domestically in over a decade or longer in the united states. it is just a sheer number of people come in from all over the world we have in idea who they are. we know that isis has been in the business trafficking people into the u.s. common sense if they have a business people they would move their own terrorists using that same network. larry: which were talking on last night's show, sir, we were talking about this very subject. there's a lot of people coming in from the middle east. also there is a lot of people coming in from china. they seem to be able-bodied males. in fact a whole bunch of chinese coming in, clean-shaven, dressed up with suitcases walking across the border, essentially unhindered. nobody knows who they are, where

they have gone. that cannot be a good thing. >> well, look anytime, this is not immigration. this is mass migration. it is uncontrolled. it is chaotic, that is not good under any circumstance, much less when you know there are groups all over the world not just from the middle east, from central asia, that have cells of isis terrorists and al qaeda terrorists who seek to conduct operations in the united states. you put it together. they wanted to attack america in america. it is easier than ever to get into america and stay. they don't have to worry about being vetted at the border because there are no records of them to check on. common sense tells you these things all come together, the threat is upon us. i truly believe, have reason to believe, we all have reason to believe based on common sense, in this country there are people here for the purposes of conducting a terrorist attack. how many? who knows. but too many. larry: senator rubio, there is, you know continued reports that joe biden after saying he had no executive authority, is now

going to come up with some executive order. 4,000 people coming in is okay. but the four thousand and first person is not okay, something like that, nobody really much believes that. what is happening with that? do you know anything else? >> only in the media reports. what he has to really do in order to fix this problem, he is in a vice. he has to reinstitute the trump program what he got rid of with executive orders. over 90 executives orders on immigration. basically executive orders telling border patrol and dhs not to enforce the law, creating all kinds of exceptions in the law, whether parole, releasing people pending an asylum hearing, letting people come in turn themselves in and go. come in across the country, turn yourself in, you have 88% chance of being released into the country. all of that is because of the executive orders he put in place to repeal the trump policies. larry: you think it is time to now under a new administration, presumably, it's time to look to

deportation? we're going to have to deport. >> yes. larry: at least we'll have to deport the criminals. the numbers are so big here. you've changed your view from several years ago. i have changed my view, senator. i think a lot of people have changed their view about that, because the numbers have gotten to be so huge. >> i have changed because the issue has changed, the problem has changed. there is a big difference between saying there is 10 or 11 million people here longer than a decade, some brought here as kids, been here a long time. there is difference between that, those 11 million, plus another 15, 20 more come on top of them since. including 10 million empty last year by the time joe biden is done, last three years by the time joe biden is done. that is a big difference. what is it that drives illegal migration. it is perception. if you believe getting here is easier than it used to be, staying is east easier than it used to be. if you have a good chance to stay you will come. that is what is driving here. when trump was in office, it

wasn't easy to get here, wasn't easy to stay the numbers went down. larry: roger that. one more, senator, have some fun on that, your op-ed in "washington post," industrial policy done right, i'm one of the free market guys you were criticizing in this speech so i love the column. let me ask you something, suppose i said to you, i agree our defense industrial base has faltered, i agree with you, and, suppose i said to you, i agree that our manufacturing base has falter and weakened? my great friend robert lighthizer agrees with that i think you're absolutely right about that. then the question is though how much government intervention do you really want senator rubio? >> i don't know it is government intervention as much as government incentives. one you put tariffs on foreign

imports in the key sectors. look i like to do it on everything obviously. that is not ideal economically. you have to do it on sectors you identified critical to the national interest. not just military gear. pharmaceuticals, the ability to make medicine. rare earth minutals the chinese manipulate all over the world. our technology we can't make it if we don't have access to those things, rare earth minerals china cornered the market on, has grown the control of that market. these are critical to our national interests. those are the industries we need to identify and incentivise. you think in the case of rare earth minerals, the chinese are subsidizing it. basically being sold on the global market below the cost of mining it. this is no way to compete against that unless you yourself have to step in to do something to create a marketplace that people can go into. who can invest in something where you will lose money? only the chinese can because they're subsidizing that industry. we have to be careful. this can't expand to every business in the world or every industry but some are critical to our country.

some things like that we'll have to do, this includes denying entry into a marketplace on these, for these critical goods and commodities from countries like china are deliberately, deliberately manipulating the market as a strategic imperative, not as an economic one. larry: i agree with that, i agree with most of that as far as i understand it. look, i think unfair trading practices is the catch-all particularly regarding china but not only china, the european union has unfair trading practices also as i'm sure you know. we worry about china sneaking through mexico to dodge the u.s. mca. the bidens spent a fortune, trillion dollars on the misnamed inflation reduction act and all this crazy climate change that the public by the way completely rejects, see it in poll after poll. we can't spend a lot of money because we got to get inflation down. my thought to you, sir is this,

why don't we be vigilant about unfair trading practices, use tariffs where necessary to negotiate but meanwhile cut tax rates and cut all the biden regulations so we would provide incentives for our manufacturing here at home and take the red tape out of the equation? so it would be a combination, go after unfair trading practices but let's have some free market incentives on lower tax rates and regulations at home? >> 100%. larry: what do you think about that senator? >> no that is 100% right. we want to create incentives to do it here. we want to create a disincentive to bring in things unfairly being brought here because they're being subsidized or manipulated especially from china. all kinds of industries, we do want to avoid. inflation reduction act, even chips act, what we're doing, taking money, they're not funding industrial capacity of the united states, they're funding favored industries happen to be in the green energy

field. by the way, as a result of it, indirectly funding chinese companies whether solar panels or electric cars or what have you. call it inflation reduction but it doesn't do anything to reduce inflation. it takes government money and spends in the name of industrial policy, it spends it on pet projects part of their broader narrative on climate change, things of that nature. it is not geared towards the national interest. it is geared towards a base of their party. that is totally different than what i'm for. larry: roger that too. see, in a few minutes we created a whole economic policy white paper just during this short interview. senator rubio, you're a great sport, thanks for coming back on the show. >> thanks for having me. larry: yeah, just couple minutes we put together a whole pro-growth sub supply side tough on trade package with senator rubio. coming up i hate to say it stocks are down over 600 points today. we'll have oil man mike sommers,

economist mike falkander, our very own jackie deangelis to kick it around and figure out why. stick and i'm kudlow. lots more cooking. at enterprise mobility, our experts always see another road.

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. larry: all right. there it is, hate to say it but the dow tanked over 600 points. here to tell us why is our great expert and friend gerri willis. gerri, what today? >> reporter: not pretty at all, right? lots of worries about interest rates. let's start with the broader market. all three major averages down of interest rate fears, besides nvidia blowout results. nasdaq off by 65. economic data including hot manufacturing results causing investors to see the federal reserve sit on its hands longer than expected. that's pushing out expectations for a rate cut to november. investors now see only a 52% chance of a first rate cut coming in september.

the ai chipmaker nvidia surging 8% after posting stronger than expected fiscal first-quarter earnings, announcing a 10 for one stock split. the stock topping 1000 bucks a share for the very first time. the company raising its earnings outlook. treasury yields moving higher on the news, 10-year yield approaching 4.5%. as i send it back to you, goldman sachs ceo saying no rate cuts this year. back to you. larry: i think he is own target. thank you, gerri willis. we appreciate that as always. let's bring in our distinguished experts. we have mike sommers, president ceo of the american petroleum institute, michael falkander, chief economist at afpi, former assistant treasury secondtry and our very own jackie deangelis co-host of "the big money show." jackie, i will begin with you on the stock market, higher for longer, i think that's a key story here? >> the markets finally getting it. larry you come on this show, we come on this show, we talk bull

at data we've gotten so far. there is no reason for this market to think it will get rate cuts this year, yet it has been very exuberant and excited about it. david solomon saying no rate cuts now. finally the market is listening. still pretty difficult comments coming from jamie dimon this morning. larry: what did jamie say? >> it is possible we could see the hard landing after all. that jerome powell didn't get this right. the worst-case scenario will be one we're stuck in a case of stagflation. we discussed it with you. today's action is important separates a.i. out from what the rest of market is doing. a.i. continues to move forward. we're in very early innings with this. industries using nvidia chips are not necessarily making profits just yet in that a.i. technology. and so when you look at the rest of the sectors, and what we're hear income retail and from the consumer right now it's not a rosy picture. why i say that's a positive sign it is a wakeup call for

investors think the market keeps going up, up, everything is great, there is re big disconnect between the a.i. boom and policies from this administration impacting the rest of the economy. larry: the selloff started yesterday, down 200 toward the close after the fed minutes came out. i don't want to be minutia in the minutes but the fact is they basically said higher for longer. that was the watchword. >> right. larry: falkander, i want to go to you on this because i have a list, you got to understand this in a minute, hang on a second, mike sommers, oil man that you are, remember your point a year or two back, why is oil prices and petroleum prices so important? you better remember this? >> i do. because they permeate every part. economy. larry: there you go, okay. i have a little list. i won't read it all. 250 minutes in it. just some of the things. this is why $80 a barrel being twice $40 a barrel, is very inflationary. we're like living with $80 a barrel. we wonder why we can't drill,

baby, drill and back to 40. just a few. anti-freeze, antihistamines, anti-septics, ballpoint pens, bandages, cell phones, clothes, computer keyboards, computer monitors, ipads, iphones, laptops, deodorant, eyeglasses, shampoo, shaving cream, shoe polish, solar panels, mr. biden, tennis rackets and toothpaste. that is just a fraction. petroleum derivatives affect the whole economy. you knocked down petroleum, you limit the price in production, rather, keep the price high, then what? you will have continuing ongoing inflation. there i said it. got a thought on that mr. api? what is it head of what group? >> american petroleum institute. larry: jut want to remind people. >> great to be with you, larry, you're exactly right. one of the big reasons we're dealing with inflationary pressures is because of high energy costs and the administration just doesn't get

it. they're right now trying to put forward a new investigation on the oil industry when in fact it is their policies are putting a giant wet blanket on the american oil industry. larry: wait a second, trump dared to me with oil and gas executives, causing "the washington post" to go all hysterical have to apply for long-term mental health care. is there something wrong with a presidential candidate meeting with a major industry? joe biden doesn't meet with any climate change people, does he? does he meet with solar people? does he meet with wind turbine people? i don't know who he meets with. does he stand on his own two feet? was it a bad thing trump met with the oil and gas people? >> what i want to say today, it is time, high time for the president of the united states to come to meet with the american oil and gas industry. larry: this current, biden president. you mean he hasn't met with them? >> we had the opportunity to meet with president trump a couple weeks ago where he outlined our agenda. he outlined his. there is no crime in doing that

we want to meet with president biden very soon to talk about the policies that he is pursuing today that are undermining american oil and gas. what they're doing now they continue to release more oil, more gasoline from the strategic petroleum reserve at a time when we're going to see more driving because of the memorial day holiday. in fact we estimate that billion 400,000 more barrels a day will be used because of the summer driving season. we need more production, more production of oil and gas and gasoline in the united states if we're going to ease the pressure on american consumers. larry: i will go back to your list but i want to go beyond your list, one reason it is very nearly impossible to tame inflation is government spending, all right? i don't want to let that go. we talked talked about it last . fed is pushing down on the brake but fiscal side, biden spending side has got the foot on the accelerator to the floor. they would love to spend $1.6 trillion that has been obligated by congress but not

yet spent. now, to spend that in six months is not an easy thing to do but they would love to do it. the point i'm making is, unless the spending stops or slows, the inflation won't either? >> that's right. almost all of it is going to be deficit financed. what you have got going on, you have got way too much stimulus going into the economy. at the same time we don't have domestic past in order to serve those needs, bringing it back to a.i., let's remember, a.i. is probably one of the most energy intenstive industries there is. how is it that we'll realize this a.i. boom? how is it we'll stay ahead technologically of the chinese, while at the same time curtailing our own ability to serve our energy needs. we got to get the spending down, deregulate. we have to be consistent, at source of growth, source of economic power, comes from technological advancements, got to grow our capacity to provide energy domestically. larry: jackie, apropos of

nothing i had senator rubio on and he agreed on the need for deregulation and lower tax rates. he, pleasantly surprised. we did a little economic white paper on the set in an eight-minute interview but i think the economy yearns for that. >> i think you're right. larry: the whole economy, what is bill baby drill? fundamentally deregulation of fossil fuel restrictions permitting all the rest of that stuff. how much difference would that make? >> i think it would make a massive difference. if you bring down one of the largest input costs which is energy, impacts how businesses run and be able to bring prices down t will also be good for the consumer. when we talk about taxes, when consumers pay more for stuff, that is extra tax on them. when president talks about letting tax cuts expire, they have will have to find more money to pay the government of taxes they owe.

ultimately you can't squeeze blood out of an onion. people are squeezed enough. my kids have two jobs, three jobs, they still can't make ends meet. they're exhausted and killing themselves. that is where the disconnect comes in. there is a new survey coming out most americans feel like we are in a recession. that is how it feels when they go to the grocery store. last point on taxes, corporate tax rate, if you want to raise that you will end up having corporations lay more people off, right? they will have to make the bottom line. larry: you will kill wages. kill wages. this 400,000-dollar, it's a red herring. nothing to do with anything. we learned, when trump cut the corporate tax rate wages went up a lot, 6,000 bucks more than the entire obama-biden administration if i'm not mistaken. last word, falkander. >> let's remember not just the shareholders that pay corporate taxes. it is workers around it is customers, because a lot gets passed on either in the form of price increases or lower wages. that is not the way too generate growth and improve the lot of

the american people. larry: drill, baby, drill. drill, baby, drill. cut taxes and deregulate. mike sommers, thank you. michael falkander, jackie deangelis thank you very much. catch jackie along with her co-host brian brenberg and taylor riggs on "the big money show" weekdays 1:00 p.m. eastern right here on fox biz. coming up here on "kudlow," alvin bragg's phony trial moving towards an end game, i hope so. hugh hewitt will be here. byron york will be here. we'll be right back. i'm kudlow. ♪ limu emu... ♪ and doug. (bell ringing) limu, someone needs to customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. let's fly! (inaudible sounds) chief! doug. (inaudible sounds) ooooo ah.

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get connected on the day of your move with the xfinity app. can i sleep over at your new place? can katie sleep over tonight? sure, honey! this generation is so dramatic! move with xfinity. larry: we welcome in, hugh hewitt, great friend, host of the hugh hewitt radio show. buy on york, chief political correspondent, "washington examiner," fox news contributor. we appreciate it very much. hugh hewitt, professor of law chapman university all these years, i want to talk to you about possible jury instructions. you tell me if it is right or wrong. it has been reported that one of the instructions judge mershon will give to the jury in new york. i will quote fishing the payment would have been made even in absence of candidacy, then payment should not be treated as

a contribution, meaning an election, presidential election year contribution. hugh hewitt, i think that's what one of the instructions are going to be, i want you to tell us how important is that? because it seems on the surface like one of the brighter spots for mr. trump but you tell me? >> it would be a bright spot and i will believe it when i see it from this judge. i have judge more confidence in judge smael from "caddyshack" than i do this judge. larry: yes. >> whether or not he makes that instruction it would be useful, would allow brad smith, professor brad smith capital law school, testify serving four plus years on the fec, federal elections commission, as well as chairman, he actually knows the law, he could have helped the judge out here, but the judge was not having any expertise, on donald trump's side. larry: smith would say non-disclosure agreements don't

violate campaign law. >> he would have cited jaunt edwards case, this is asked and answered by federal law. this should never have gotten here. larry: byron york, thanks core for coming back my friend. you covered this closely, to everyone's benefit, i read you every day. number one, do you agree with what hugh said on this point? we don't know for sure her -- mershon will issue this instruction but it was reported. how rough this is new york jury. everyone is making fun, it's a terrible case, and it is a terrible case, hard to find anything illegal, but, byron what does your instinct tell you now most of it is over and we await final arguments and decisions? >> well, first of all i do agree with hugh, you know, as far as my instincts i am concerned i say i started watching this trial fully believing there would be absolutely 100% be a conviction. now i do think it's possible

that you could have a hung jury, that there might be one or two jurors who are just not buying it but i just don't know. another really huge issue in the jury selection is that so-called other crime. how many times have been talking in the past several weeks about the quote other crime, the one that trump allegedly intended to do, that made the whole thing a felony? and the prosecution never listed, they never came out, this is it, this is the specific other crime. well as it turns out they had given a few theories to the judge and the jury can accept one of the theories or the other theory or maybe even the other theory and convict trump. it is a multiple choice test we found out. jurors do not have to agree on what the quote, other crime is. larry: how damaging is that, hugh hewitt? byron make as good point i think. and if there is a conviction, hugh, it is not my favorite

option, but if there's a conviction, even though there's an appeal how damaging politically do you think that's going to be? >> well i think the conviction is baked into the polling now, i really do not believe anyone will believe it is a legitimate conviction, who has not already decided to vote for joe biden or against donald trump. i just don't think america is persuaded. it is very damaging to the rule of law and to the reputation of new york justice for this trial to have unfolded this way. i want to point out two other things, byron is completely right about the lack of specificity about the second crime. it is basic constitutional law that defendants are, have to know what they're charged with so they can prepare their defense. it is also to me, very, very obvious that this judge should not have been on this case. he made very symbolic, very small, donations to joe biden and to two anti-trump, $35 total. what do you make of symbolic

contribution for? to make sure you're the tds judge, trump der rangement syndrome, i do not know any other judge, i have been practicing law 40 years, i do not know any judge who made a contribution to political campaign would sit on judgment for that candidate. larry: good point. byron york, 20 seconds or so, is a conviction baked into the political cake right now? >> it is for almost everybody. we know that trump's base is just not going to care. it might make, it make them support him more. but the polls have told us there is a small group of voters who said they were open to possibly voting for trump but they wouldn't want to if he were convicted felon. nger-lasting ref than tylenol rapid release gels because advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. so for faster pain relief, advil the pain away.

at st. jude, the mission is just something that everyone can truly get behind. look at our little st. jude pin there on the fridge! we're just regular people donating. yeah. and i think it's cool to be able to make a difference in someone's lives in a way that is meaningful.

larry: you wait, folk, we're already getting early reports, just wait, the trump rally in the south bronx going to be well over 25,000 people. it's a big shot across mr. biden's bow, and now, david asman, we should have take a cab up to the south bronx, david. david: i would have paid for that cab, larry -- larry: i would have split it with you. david: 25,000, that's a good bet. thank you, larry, appreciate it. i'm david asman in for blez macdonald, "the evening edit" starts right now. anticipation is building as thousands wait for if former president donald trump