really going to cut-rates in two scenarios. the first is inflation is well under control. we any that's going to take at least six months to see or else the economy starts to deteriorate and they have to support it with a rate cut. in our opinion neither one of those situations is in place. so we think no rate cuts will be in effect this year. maybe one next year. liz: none. david kelly said one possibly. here we go, mike, thank you very much the closing bell is about to ring. the major averages do close near, not at the lows of the session but near with the dow down 408, the s&p down 39, the nasdaq down 105. [closing bell rings] suddenly the vix, volatility spike about 10%. tomorrow atlanta federal reserve president rafael bostic is here in a fox business exclusive. don't miss it. ♪.

david, hello, folks welcome to a special edition of "kudlow," i'm david asman in for larry. we're taking a live look at new york state supreme court in lower manhattan where 12 jurors are deliberating in former president donald trump's criminal hush money trial. judge juan her merchan laid out jury instructions, they are the judgers of the fact and no personal opinion. we'll have trey gowdy. first bring out lydia hu live outside the courthouse with the very latest. these requests from the jury keep on coming right? >> reporter: that is exactly right, david. we got a second request from the jury in the just the past couple minutes. this makes two notes sent from the jury since they started deliberating just a little after 11:30 this morning and in this

most recent note the jury is requesting to rehear the judge's instructions. i will tell you, i was in the room. the overflow courtroom this morning when the judge read instructions to the jury roughly an hur out of a document that expands longer than 50 pages. they are long, they are detailed, they are quite frankly confusing and the jury is not allowed to take them back into deliberations with them, a hard copy. so they're asking for them to be' read again. as you can imagine that process will be an hour again. doesn't feel like this process is moving quickly at this point. the second note, the first note which was earlier today, requesting to hear excerpts of testimony. read to them again. specifically from david pecker, a known call from donald trump the story rights for karen mcdougal, the alleged relationship with the former

president. they also want testimony read back about why donald trump ended up not paying for those story rights from karen mcdougal. finally they want testimony from david pecker about a meeting at trump tower and also from michael cohen also a meeting at trump tower. all of that to say, david, seems like this jury at the moment is really fixated or has a lot of questions about the alleged so-called, catch and kill scheme surrounding the decision to acquire the story rights to karen mcdougal, which is interesting, the karen mcdougal issue is not the basis for any charges in the indictment. that is where things stand at this moment. the judge said earlier he would let the deliberations move until four 30 4:30 this afternoon. check back with the jury. we should have more clarity how long this should go today. david: lydia, very questionly, you've been sitting in this thing a long time. i have been reading all your notes carefully that you send

out to us all. i can't remember whether the judge instructed the jury ndas in of themselves are legal, that they're not, you know the fact that they prided themselves, the prosecution in proving that donald trump was involved in this nda, was the jury ever told by the judge that ndas are legal? report that. >> reporter: that is a good question. i have a copy of the jury instructions, david. i will look that up, email you confirm it with you. i don't believe he instructedded on that specific point. david: i don't think he did either. >> reporter: i don't recall that being part of instructions. frankly a lot of things i was looking for in the instructions and i think that was not included. david: lydia hu, thank you for your reporting. we have will scharf, former trump attorney. by the way, do you the judge ever telling that to the jury

the nda in itself is not illegal? >> i don't remember that specifically but many of judge marchon'ss actions i wouldn't guess whether that happened. david: we herd heard from three instructions the jury can be pick from three choices. they were never fully ajudicated in court. the federal election charge they are not authorized to weigh in on that, are we. >> what we call the predicate offense, the underlying offense records violation which we believe in of itself was bunk, that was intended to cover up the judge's position on jury unanimity, is unconstitutional, that is something we would bring up on appeal if the case ever would appeal. i think early signs from the jury are quite positive for us. joe biden is ready to spike the

football at a white house press conference. meanwhile the jury is going back to the very first witness in the case, david pecker. seems to scrutinize his testimony, understanding what he did and didn't say. now they really want to understand what the law is, what the law isn't, what they were actually instructed to do, versus what they might have misremembered from a very long morning this morning. david: they got news a tax charge could be included. one of those things the jury doesn't think there is federal election charge or that the overriding charge or the beginning charge is enough to convict on a felony but the tax charge that they just heard about today would be enough. there hasn't been any evidence provided in this case about the tax charge, right? >> that is exactly right. litigating this case it is like sort of going after a pinata at times, pinning down the prosecution what their actual theory of the case is, is something we never had clarity on. i think that is reflected in the jury instructions. goes to show how outrageous this

entire prosecution has been. david: you and a lot of other people said there are many grounds for appeal on this case. i believe all kinds of grounds for appeal. this unique suggestion to the jury they pick one of three, that is enough to convict. a lot of other things, but how soon could that be fast tracked to a court that might get you the desired result? >> there are many grounds for appeal. i would also note there are many, many grounds for acquit acquittal. there are many holes in the prosecution case which i think todd blanche did masterful job in his summation. i don't think the prosecution proved that president trump did anything wrong, certainly not records fraud. we would attempt to fast track that within the bounds of new york appellate procedure. meantime we think there are ample grounds for the jury to acquit. we're certainly hopeful that is the outcome here. david: by the day the judge

dismissed the jury for the day, is that for the day, producer? yeah for the day. they will spend at least two days deliberating. do you think that is good news for your client? >> conventional wisdom longer deliberations favor the defendant. i'm happy to hear the jury is taking their job seriously. looks like they will really scrutinize the evidence. we believe if they do that, if they take their job seriously, they have no choice but to acquit. david: will scharf, for for being here. good to see you. we have trey gowdy, former federal prosecutor, host of sunday night in america. great to see you. you've been wearing your pants thin watching this trial. we heard from ty cobb, one of donald trump's former lawyer, a name you will ever forget, ty cobb, the jury instructs shuns, he says there will be a guilty verdict because the jury instructions are so vague and so favoring any kind of charge that

it would almost require a guilty verdict at some point, what do you say to that? >> well, i don't want to predict the verdict because i did it for so long and was so bad at it. i will say that not just the jury instructions favor the prosecution but the judge's rulings, exclusion of an fec expert, the allowing michael cohen's guilty plea, which is what we call propensity evidence, the fact that, or proximity evidence, take your pick. the fact that you're around people who are guilty does not make you guilty. the fact that karen mcdougal, and other alleged misconduct that is not in the indictment. so i think the deck has been stacked towards a conviction and away from an acquittal. it is not just the jury instruction that was just kind of the final piece of the puzzle. david: you said something earlier i heard on fox news.

you said it was kind of unusual for the judge to invite the jury to ask him questions. usually the judge doesn't like to go through all of that, leave them on their own to come up with a decision. he wants, seems to me, like he really wants to control this narrative. i think back to when he didn't allow brad smith to come in to talk about federal election law. he said i want to do it. we have a full screen. we can put up. he said the other day on tuesday, he said stay away from the law. stay away from the law. stay away from the law. he receipt good that three times. that is my job. i will take care of it. again, he wants to control the narrative even if other people know better about the law than he does. i'm talking about brad smith. >> well i was in the courtroom when he said that, and my reaction was just to be stunned because if you're the lawyer giving summation, i mean the job of the jury is to apply the facts to the law. so how can a lawyer mike an

argument, closing argument to the jury, whether prosecutor or defense attorney without making reference to the law? what i used to say i think the judge will tell you the law is x. if he tells you something, or she tells you something other wise, follow the judge. everyone in america, will allow you to say that, except the one presiding in this trial. one of the few times he sustained objection in the prosecution by the defense was because they were talking about the law. so how do you convince a ask jury that the facts don't match the law if the judge is not allowing you to argue the law? i have never seen that before. i never seen the judge no the allow jury instructions to go back with the jury. larry: right. >> how can you remember 50 something pages worth of archaic legal instruction, just based on your memory? how can you do that? larry: it is not just the jury.

the defendant has to know what charges he is there to defend himself against. in fact today we heard of this tax charge that was not adjudicated at all in the courtroom a juror in the jury room without any legal expertise around can decide for himself to convict on something that was not adjudicated at all in the courtroom and the defendant couldn't defend himself against. there are so many violations of what seem to me to be due process in this case. >> we don't know the elements and when i hear the word crime, i think a jury has convicted someone or you have pled guilty. that's what a crime is. so if there's been no adjudication, then by what standard of proof does this jury have to find one of those other ancillary crimes was committed? can it only be one of those three? does it have to be a u.s. crime? my colleague andy mccarthy said, what if it is a violation

of sharia law, is that also quote, a crime? it is almost void for vagueness which is a constitutional term that something can be unconstitutional because it is so vague. david: now you said something last night, i think in your notes with andy mccarthy, you two were talking late in the night, about a mistake that might have been made by the trump team, that to suggest that trump wasn't paying cohen, which was a suggestion made by the trump team, correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe you said, just admit that it was there and that an nda, a non-disclosure agreement is not illegal. admit it was there, because they're not being told whether it was heel or illegal? >> yeah. let me just say this in defense of the defense attorneys, it is hard to be a criminal defendant and it is hard to run for president. it is almost impossible to do both at the same time. so what would ordinarily be a good legal defense, which is you

know what? i had relations with stormy daniels, i'm not proud bit but yes i did. yes i repaid my lawyer which is called a legal expense. it is reimbursement to a lawyer for a settlement and that, guess what is called a legal expense. i think if he were not running for president he would have said, yes to both but i didnt commit a crime. instead the defense is i did not have relations with stormy daniels and i didn't know anything about those payments. i said admit what doesn't matter, deny what does. i think in this case maybe because of the politics of it, they had to deny things that i think a jury is probably concluding were true. david: trey, they're giving me a wrap. you know what that is like. this final question, pick one of the three things instruction that the jury was given finally today by judge merchan. have you heard that you can have a divided jury, as long as they pick one of three charges none

of which have been fully adjudicated in the courtroom by the way by defense and prosecution, as long as you pick one of the three, we can convict this guy after felony? >> yes. i saw it about a week ago at the golden corral. it is called a buffet. you can go pick what you want. have i ever seen it in a courtroom? absolutely never. have i seen it in a restaurant? from time to time i have, yes. david: unbelievable if this goes to appeal, do you have any doubt trump would win on appeal? >> yeah, but you know the reality, he believes this is election interference designed to hurt him in november but, by the time the appeal is settled, november will be long gone and they will have accomplished what they wanted to do which is hurt him politically. david: it would take longer than five months to get this into appeal? >> no doubt. to get an opinion, no doubt. david: wow, trey gowdy, wonderful stuff. >> i'm not sure he will be

sentenced in five months. david: got to leave it at that. trey gowdy, thank you very much. we could talk for hours. don't miss trey on sunday night in america, tune in to trey 9:00 p.m. eastern time on fox news. coming up, what will voters think of this whole thing? will the verdict impact their vote no matter which way it goes? we'll ask rich lowery and monica crowley next. ♪ everybody wants super straight, super white teeth. they want that hollywood white smile. new sensodyne clinical white provides 2 shades whiter teeth and 24/7 sensitivity protection. i think it's a great product. it's going to help a lot of patients. (fisher investments) at fisher investments we may look like

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we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that's uncalled for. david: so the judge has dismissed the jury in the new york trump trial before they have come to a verdict. the deliberations will continue tomorrow at 9:30 a.m. you can take a sigh of relief, watch analysis with rich lowery, editor-in-chief of "the national review" and monica crowley, former assistant treasury secretary for pun affairs, host -- public affairs, host of the monica crowley show. rich, to you, let's assume for a moment there is a conviction here. >> yeah. david: how would that affect the polls for trump? >> i think it washes out it doesn't have effect. my belief the election will be decided by big things, inflation, economy, border,

dobbs, foreign policy. maybe it feels big now in end of may, it will not feel big in november. polling is evenly divided on it. david: even if he goes to jail? >> that is a whole -- david: the judge says it is my decision. he is taking decisions for everything, but he said, it is my decision to imply one way or the other but if donald trump in jail, it will be, going to be tough and you used the term nuclear, monica, how, how tough could it get? could we see trump supporters doing something untoward in the streets or, are we in danger in any way depending how the verdict goes? >> well i mean the left engages in political violence. david: more their style. >> the right does not do that. if there is a conviction i think it is probably good for two to five polling points because what we've seen throughout this process is that donald trump's poll numbers have gone up, not down. david: absolutely. >> more and more the american

people see this massive legal pile-on on trump. david: by the way it hasn't worked but they're still going for it. we had even before today, before they, the jury went to deliberations they had their first rally outside of the courtroom? >> they're so deeply invested in this lawfare because they believe it was going to neutralize donald trump as a political force in 2024 and it has only strengthened him. it is not just this one case, david that is completely outrageous with no crime. donald trump didn't do anything wrong. it is all cases put together. got the four cases, 91 counts, up to 700 years in prison. the average american goes, come on this pile-on is completely unjustified all because donald trump simply wanted to make america great again in this is a all ludicrous. the backlash is politically potent not in the way the left wanted but in favor of donald trump. >> if they had their way they would have all of these

back-to-back. trump would be in courtrooms until october. this is only one, definitely the weakest one. if he, a victory for trump is hung jury. i don't think he is getting acquitted this this courtroom in this courtroom. if it is hung jury, this is enormous victory for donald trump. david: what is interesting. i will stick with you for a second, rich. the mainstream media, msnbc, cnn, they were beginning to sow doubts about this case, until the jury was dismissed of the long weekend. they knew they would have a audience of 12. there would be 12 people could be watching much one of those jurors would be watching. i get a sense, told from above, don't sow any doubts about it. be absolutely guilty of trump. >> this should have not been brought, it was clear only ones, okay all that out the window, they think it has been a devastating case against him. david: do americans see through the political intentions? today we had this incredible, i

think unique case in which the judge said all you have to do is pick one of these three. you jurors can disagree with each other on several different issues but as long as you agree one of these three things trump is guilty on then we'll say it is unanimous verdict. >> all these heel experts including will scharf to you is saying this is completely unconstitutional. you're dealing with a criminal situation here that could result in the denial of donald trump's freedom, his freedom to move, an incarceration or house arrest. unanimity is the standard. for this judge to say we could have a split of four, they are doing everything possible to try to secure a conviction for political reasons, not because of any kind of judicial process that's legitimate. they want donald trump going into 2024 as a convicted felon. so they want to pose the question to the american people, do you really want to vote for a

convicted felon? you know what? time after time, in poll after poll, on that question, the answer is an increasingly resounding yeah, we will vote for a convicted felon as long as it is donald trump because we see through this farce. david: might a conviction, also rich, might give them an out with regard to the debate, right? biden can say i was fine with debating a guy who is running for president, who hasn't been convicted but i will never debate a convict. >> there might be further attempts to keep him off the ballot places. this case will fall, so legally flawed. if it is convicted -- david: you heard trey, will be after the election. >> in '25, '26. point is doing it now in 2024. doing it in '25, he can't do it, private citizen you will not care anymore. they had to do it now. that is the whole plan. david: rich, monica, great to see you both. appreciate it. coming up president biden heads to philadelphia to shore up

black voter support as they drift towards donald trump? is it too late for him? congressman byron donalds and claudia tenney will weigh in on that in just a moment. ♪ i have type 2 diabetes, but i manage it well. ♪

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♪. david: president biden hitting the campaign trail in philadelphia to kick off his black voter outreach campaign as his support among minority and young voters continues to decline. our own madison alworth is there with the very latest. hey, madison. >> reporter: hi, david. biden has wrapped up here in pennsylvania, his 7th day campaigning in the state this year. it is a very important swing state. today he was targeting a very important voter, black voters. the campaign announcing a new initiative, black voters for biden-harris with president biden himself during the campaign event saying the reason why he made it to the white house in 2020 is because black americans voted for him

and he says he is hoping they will do the same in 2024. but attend east of this campaign event told me that black support for biden it is starting to slip. so at this point you would say, are you looking at your community, you would say that where does support stand when it comes to the biden-harris ticket? >> 50-50, 50-50. that is being very honest. it is 50-50. right now is the time to step it on up. right now is the time to prove a few things. >> reporter: that change also showing up in polling. while the current president still leads in key groups it's not what it was in 2020. while biden made his case inside of a building within the gated school here, protesters tried to make their case outside of it. they could not get close to today's campaign event. the people that were actually let into the event were bused on to property by the election campaign. those folks though, they say

they're going to continue to push for a second term for biden >> he has been the best union president ever and, i can't say enough about it, especially about the infrastructure bill, the inflation reduction act. these are going to provide good-paying union jobs throughout the nation. >> the black vote will, it did in 2020. it certainly will in 2024. so we're excited about it, his campaign, we're here to support. >> reporter: now as part of this new initiative, david, the campaign says they are going to spend eight figures on black community outreach to convince that group to continue to support them through the 2024 election. david? david: wow, madison, thank you very much for that. joining me congressman byron donalds, new york congresswoman claudia tenney. that is a great couple we have there. thanks for coming in, folks. byron, first to you, if i can,

something about the phrase courting the black vote seems so demeaning. yes, trump went to the bronx last week but it was an open message, in a section of the city that is dominated by black and latinos but it was open to everybody. there is a woman who was a warm-up act. her name was madeleine braun. varney ad her on last week. i want to play a sound bite from her, get your reaction. roll it. >> trump is speaking our language. he has figured out a way to connect, all right? to connect with poor minorities. let's put it in perspective, poor mine anothers, meaning black, white, asian, jewish, hispanic, you know, russian, italian, anybody who is struggling right now, to make ends meet, who works every single day, okay? when they get paid, their paycheck lasts them two days and their refrigerator is still empty. david: now to me that sounds like a unifying message.

to you, what do you say, byron? >> i totally agree, it is a unifying message but i think to a broader perspective, the fact that you know, you have engagement from president trump going after black voters is indicative of where black voters are, really all voters are. everybody is really looking at this election to try to figure out who will do the better job of leading america going forward. i firmly believe that will be donald trump because he has done this job once. he did a great job when he had the job. he needs to get it again because joe biden has been the master of disaster. the key messaging going forward who is going to be better for your pocketbook, for your kitchen table and for your future in america? it is without a doubt it is donald trump. david: that is inclusive message, congresswoman. that is exactly what biden claims he does, bring people together but he is divided us and this trial in new york, i hate to be coming back to the a block, but the trial in new york is a perfect example because

trump makes a credible case that what's happening to him could happen to you as well? >> yeah. i think that's why trump is resonates with everyone. as byron pointed out, trump is reaching out to everyone. he is not deciding i'm going for the rich or the poor. he will send the message to all americans. make america great again for all americans. everybody knows and feels the pain from joe biden especially people in the lower income places where they can't, even their taxes have gone up or it costs even more to get food as this woman cited, why she is supporting trump. obviously she is patriotic. must have been memorial day message, deferral supporting our veterans which is important. david: yep. >> trump is just so good at being authentic, at being genuine, truly shows compassion and care. despite being a billionaire, he is a regular guy who shows his love and care for the average

person. he had that legacy for his entire life. it never gets talked about, all the good things he does for people without getting recognition. those things are genuine. he wouldn't do the things if he didn't really care. joe biden everything is a political calculation including his racist tropes he made throughout his entire 50 year career. david: that's a good point. >> to cater cater to people. he is not genuine. people feel that. david: congressman, he is making progress not just with certain ethic groups but blue states are turning purple, looking red from a long time. i am thinking virginia which biden won in 2020 by 10 points. as recently december, biden was gaining on trump six points. now it is dead 42-42, according to a roanoke poll. >> absolutely correct. there was a poll about new york

state that the president was nine points back in new york, new york state. joe biden i think won it by 22, 23 point. what's happened is two things. number one, donald trump is a great president. number two joe biden has been a disasterous president. the border, inflation, foreign policy. we have more wars going on all over the globe than we've had in decades under joe biden. the disrespect of free speech and now you have the misuse of our justice system purely for politics. people have had enough. they want america to work, they want america to be great. donald trump will get us there. everybody knows the job joe biden is going to do. it will be another disaster for four more years and the voters that claudia is talking about, people on the low end of the socioeconomic spectrum, people in the middle class, trying to find a way to get to the upper middle class, even into the rich. david: right. >> there is no runway for them to get there in joe biden's america. that's why he must be defeated. david: it's about prosperity and insecurity. people want to feel secure.

people want to be prosperous. finally, congresswoman, the fact is, is when you get to security you can't avoid the fact the guy who was prosecuting, i would even go so far to say persecuting donald trump in new york, the d.a., alvin bragg, he lets criminals free. he lets murderers walk the streets with his no bail law, et cetera. it is a no bail law put into effect by the governor. people want to feel more secure. they don't feel it on the streets or in their pocketbook. >> absolutely. you alluded to it before, if donald trump can be persecuted and actually maliciously prosecuted by alvin bragg and all these other prosecutors, all in by the way very deep blue states, all democrats all political operatives, including this judge, nobody feels more insecure than a member of new york saying oh, my god, they can prosecute me for walking across the street and chewing gum at the same time. this is why it is so scary to a

lot of people. if they can do this to donald trump they can do it to anyone. this is the definition of what authoritarian regime does. they cover up the law, they abuse it and they put away people who they deem as against them and their dissidents. irony of joe biden calling out president trump while he is sitting there prosecuting his own opponent, his own opponent. he is using, this is election interference. this is incredible that we're seeing this lap in the united states in the state of new york of which i've been a lifelong resident and i'm a lawyer in this state. i am embarrassed by the bar and i am embarrassed our governor has not removed alvin bragg because she has the power to do that with this malicious prosecution and had lee zeldin won, he said his first act would be to remove alvin bragg for his malicious prosecution of president trump and not holding true criminals accountable and making our minority communities and all communities across new york unsafe this is an easy, i hope new york votes for trump.

it would be so exciting. i'm not sure that is going to happen but i will do everything i can to get the vote out for president trump. david: congresswoman, congressman, thank you so much both being here. really appreciate seeing you. >> thank you. david: wishing you the best. switching gears, biden is pump even more money green initiative despite the fact nobody wants it much. edward lawrence at white house. edward, what is it this time? >> reporter: a case here david, what the administration says and what the administration is actually doing. president joe biden says he wants to have affordable housing for low income families to achieve the american dream. what is actually happening his administration is increasing costs it takes to build a home. now the new rules that are going into effect in about 18 months use different types of heating and cooling systems must be used in new construction using federal funding. the rules require new type of installation, new types of windows, new lighting, other

items in the name of climate change. "politico" is reporting that the administration wants to expand this to any new construction home using freddie mac or fannie mae-backed mortgages which is 90% of them. listen. >> if you truly care about giving people housing opportunities the last thing you want to do is add to already increased cost of building homes in this country. just leave it alone because what we've seen over the years is states they are moving forward on energy efficiency and structural codes. that is the normal cycles that they move through. >> reporter: yeah. talking about a giant mandate or mandate is a giant leap. national homebuilders association saying the national mandate would add $30,000 to the price of a new home. the administration says once the homes are built, would be 3% more fuel, energy efficient, save $950 a year. >> what we tried to do very

carefully is look at the pressing needs around energy efficiency as you so well articulated and the long-term savings to homeowners and renters but also, looking at its intersection with affordability. >> reporter: you can do the math here. add $30,000 to the price of a home, you save $950 a year, according to the administration. you can work out when the savings start. david: edward lawrence great report. frightening but great. let's bring in steve forbes to talk about this and inflation. first talk about regulation. you have famously said, i think even coined the phrase that the best way to socialize a country is through regulation, not through legislation. it seems like that's a lot of what we've been seeing recently. >> it has become a avalanche. they know if they lose in november, they want to get everything possible in now, put barriers to make sure the trump administration would have a hard time rolling them back. so, everything is being affected.

remember when dishwashers could do dishes under an hour? they want to take away your dishwasher, they want to wreck your air conditioner, take away the car that actually works. david: don't forget my stove. >> stoves. david: our natural gas was turned off in our building. we have 150 unit. happening all over manhattan because what governor hochul wants to eliminate natural gas entirely from the state, what she has done ratcheted up the regulations basically nobody can pass the regulations. so you have your gas turned off. we're using hot plates to cook our food. we're going back to the college dorm days, because they think we'll get so fed up we'll finally buy ourselves an electric stove. this is social engineering through regulations. >> it is a form of tyranny. one of the things alexis de tocqueville, french man wrote a famous become about america, tyranny is not just the big stuff, censorship and the like but also hitting the individual in so many small ways, venerating you, weakening you,

easier to control you. they hit everything about your personal lives. the other thing on inflation, one of the things the biden administration overlooked touting how great they are fighting inflation is what larry summers, bill clinton's treasury secretary brought out, they leave out interest costs, what you pay on housing what you pay on car payments, what you pay on credit cards. that is real. the real inflation rate is twice what what it is today. david: you write the fed has been using completely wrong formula in terms of trying to control inflation. explain. >> they think you control inflation by depressing the economy. they think when people do things you got to suppress it. david: right. >> that is absolutely false. inflation is two kind, one is regulatory kind we're talking about that increases costs but also reducing the value of the dollar. which they have been doing for a year after year. if they want to fight monetary, what you might call monetary inflation, have stable value of dollar.

david: like -- don't sound like biden. >> do a job jobe. but, something resembling that. david: is it conceivable, if donald trump is elected that he would go for a gold standard? >> i think you would go at least halfway there, which alan greenspan, former head of the fed back in the 1990s did for a while. he looked at gold price he said so publicly, looked at commodity prices to get a ends is of dollar in the marketplace, the real value. i think we'll move in that direction. not because of any arguments you might make, i might make, sheer pressure of events. david: if he don't go for gold i hope he goes for a flat tax. >> how about both? david: steve forbes ultimate dream. >> thank you, david. david: markets plunged today with the dow down 400 points. nancy tengler will tell us why next. ♪.

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her uncle's unhappy. i'm sensing an underlying issue. it's t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit... unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock...” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it's not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that's uncalled for.

david: it wasn't a good day for your 401(k). the dow plunging more than 400 points. joining me now is nancy tengler, ceo, cio of laffer tengler investments. author of the women's guide to successful investing.

nancy, thanks for being here. what is going on? is it the economy, fear of inflation, what do you think? >> thanks for having me, david. i think it's a couple of things. let's also remember this month, even including today, the s&p is up almost 5%. david: yes. >> year-to-date we're up in the double digits. i think short-term volatility is always centered outside of earnings season. centered around fed speak or economic numbers, are they too good, not good enough. i thought the "beige book" was encouraging for stock bulls, because is showed deceleration in some extent of growth, moderation let's say and employment slowing. we already know wages have rolled over. real wages are below pre-pandemic levels and wage growth is at pre-pandemic levels. so the consumer is hurting. i think that is starting to show up, people are saying things like the discerning consumer but we'll start to see some weight i think on retail spending come --

coming down. david: the question how slow could things go. you mentioned the "beige book." businesses month ago were cautiously optimistic. now they're quote, somewhat more pessimistic. so there is kind of some dark clouds on the horizon and unemployment is going up. we had figures from 21 states showing increase in unemployment, leading the way by the way is california with 5.3% unemployment. that has got the worst unemployment rate in the country. so is it conceivable, that this could weigh on the fed and stop them from, from certainly getting too interested in things going well with the economy? i mean they, they may actually lower rates because of a slowdown in the economy? >> yeah. and that's our premise. we've been talking about the labor softness for quite sometime. i mean california, i smile, of course this is what happens when you make the minimum wage for a fast-food worker $20 an hour,

companies find ways around it. they get automated. that is our investing theme, digitization and a.i. also going on in housing affordability is decelerating at a really rapid pace. it takes the average wage earners 71 1/2 hours per month to cover their mortgage. the peak was 71.6 in october. both of those are the highest levels we've ever seen since 1991 when this began tracking. so the consumer, especially the low end is hurting. i do think, however, for stocks, higher interest rates have proven to be a boon, for large technology companies. so their interest income has exploded. you have to be discerning where you invest but it's not, it's not going to be a smooth landing. it will be a little bumpy. david: we have not talked about regulation like we did with steve forbes a moment ago. that is adding toe cost for businesses. nancy, we have to leave it at

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thank you all for watching this personal edition a couple. tune in tomorrow, bill hagerty, congressman perry and even miller and if that wasn't en enough, look we have coming up, liz mcdonald to take you to the next hour. >> that was a great show. look at to the