report. it was dimming hopes for a fed rate cut, so you would think that actually wouldn't be good. yields are really rising. typically, that means equities lower, but with equities higher to end this week, something we don't traditionally see. could this be a report that a people are finding good parts about that they like? jackie: i liked having jeff on the show because he's taken a contrarian view, and we'll end up seeing who's right or to wrong. i still think there's something going on in this market that isn't going to match what we've seen in the past because the dynamics are so different. i'm interested to see how nvidia does on monday when the split is official. and i just, this market sloughs things off to a certain degree, and i wonder if it's thinking something else. brian: poof. jackie had the words this week. jackie was all over the worlds. charles payne mine in that quiz show, he might not have been on my team, he's coming up now. i think he's better at markets than trivia, i'm just going to

leave it there. charles: well, i'm okay with '70s trivia. i'm pretty good. [laughter] it was a fun show. see you soon. good afternoon, everyone, i'm charles payne, or this is "making money." the stock market was ready to take off like one of elon musk's rockets, but then the jobs number came in too high. of course, we are looking at the bias. the bias remains to the upside. in fact, the resolve has been remarkable. but there's some dirty little secret truths going on here, right? the rally is very narrow, and there are some bigtime concerns over what happens when the a.i. magic begins to fade. 9 in fact, one major wall street firm not waiting, steeple, they break down why the firm is forecasting the s&p to go down 10% this quarter. and speaking of the jobs report, why did 250 to,000 people leave the labor force and and why are foreign-born workers getting all the jobs? we've got amazingal rent, some of the best on wall street -- talent here. meanwhile, tesla says bottoms

up, folks. would you pay $450 for midwest walsh, particularly from elon musk? tweat me @cbpayne. we've got all that and so much more on "making money." ♪ charles: you know, one of the most exciting moments in all of sports is in bull riding, right? when the ride's bracing for what's only going to be maybe an 8-second ride because of the intense moves that the bull does and the determination of the beast to get this guy off, right in that's how it felt coming into this session. i had a sense that investors were like these bulls in the chute. remember, all week long the scuttlebutt was the return of a soft landing. the fed is back in the game. the bias has been overwhelmingly to the upside. three sessions in a row we came off the lows of the day and were rallying into the close really on no news. so it's all about being to the upside. the fix was in, folks, for a

much higher move on what would have been a goldilocks number versus a strong report. the beast was ready to go, and the vine would have been crazy, we'd have been off into that summer rally. that narrative was out put on pause momentarily, but you know what? there may have been enough red flags in that report as folks have gone through this report, maybe it's the given the bulls hope that the fed is still in the game, they just couldn't jump for joy right out of the gate? 272,000 sent bond yields higher for the stock market initially stumbling out of the gate. everything except maybe large cap value. but some sectors edged higher right out the gate as well. financials were up, energy up. industrials, health care. now, the problem for the if market is the rally has been really just one name, the magnificent one, nvidia. and the rest of the chip sector. look at this. 65% of names in this market are underperforming the market. in fact, less that hand of --

half of the names in the s&p 500 is changing hands right now above their 50-day moving average a. and then the russell 2000 is at its lowest point since inception when compared to the s&p 500. but just when it look looked like everyone on wall street was singing from the same hymn sheet and rooting for bad news to be good news, one firm has been going against the grain. stifel shocked a lot of people. they said the s&p 500 is due for a correction, 10 president, this quarter. -- 10%. for the third quarter. want to bring in chief equity strategist barry banister. barry, you set a lot of hairs on fire with that call. your firm saying the next 500 points for the s&p will be to the downside, so walk us through the reasoning. >> yeah. the the call we made set in late may was for by the end of third quarter which will be senator -- starting june 30th, ending september 30th, that the s&p would fall about 10% to 4750,

you'd have about a 3% equity risk people if yum at that point the way we measure it. you'd also have a market that that more accurately reflects caught in low gear on economic growth with very sticky -- in fact, i think inflation picks up again as we look at a the back half. and that's going to derail fed's hopes. charles: right. and again, you know, back to the drawing board for just about a everyone with respect to the fed rate cuts. the fed rate crowd was chomping at the bit. they were to go, but you and your work saying that the core pce actually increase in the second half of the year. what drives that higher? >> about a half of core c -- pce is what's called supercore. it's the core services excluding housing. so these are things like everything from hotel stays and airfare to insurance costs and haircut costs and what not. which i need very much right now.

and if you look at the supercore, it's actually edging quite a bit higher. charles: right. >> we also look at unit labor costs. this is labor costs, wages are much stronger than people expected. not us, we knew wages would be strong. there's a structural shortage of qualified labor. but when you add all the pieces together, inflation should edge up in the second half, and that's really going to, i think, cause the long end of the curve to shift up. the fed's going to stay where they are, and the longer yields need to go higher. charles: barry, i want to ping on that for a moment because i have the most well known economists every single day, and they're all a kind of singing from the same hymn sheet. you just brought up something intriguing with respect to unit labor costs. and why you can see certain elements of the labor force that others either don't see or are maybe ignoring. >> yeah. well, if you look at the economy, in 2022 after the

market had a tanked starting december 30th of '21, it actually fell an inflation-adjusted 32%, 332% is the average a --3 2% is the average decline of all 12 recessions since world war ii in the mid 1940s. so the market told us we were in a recession, and sales, picked investment and employment with market version. the first four fell to all negative return. only employment stayed strong because, again, we have a structural shortage of qualified labor. charles: right. so we call that a pseudo-recession. and if you always get a rebound many productivity coming out of a pseudo-recession. charles: right. >> people produce more output for every hour they work with. and that's what kept inflation coming down. now it's bottoming out. it'll go back up a little bit. chls charles we've got a minute to go. you've always cautioned that the manias, rather, end badly. you say you've studied it for

over a hundred years, and seems like you're suggesting a.i. is that current mania with, and if so, will it end badly? >> yeah. i mean, we're trading at the mid 20s on trailing 10-year operating earnings. you inflation adjust it, it's about $187 is the real average of earnings the next last 01 years, and the -- 10 years, and the s&p 500 is trading well over 5300. that a tells me it is an extremely expensive market which has followed the trend now for a hundred years. and this is the fifth big upswing in the multiple. and those end badly. if all of them in the past ended with 30, 50, even 80% bear markets. i'm not saying that's going to happen, but don't overpay for g.o.a.t., don't overpay for a good story. don't get wound up based on a chat room because that's a quick way to lose money. charles: you know what's

interesting, for 100 toyears those warnings have been out there, and human nature always a takes over. appreciate talking to you about this, thank you very much. >> thanks, charles. charles: so my next guest also is watching this market a little bit more on the defensive side, likes utilities. but that's more of an offensive play, stone x, their chief market strategist kathryn rooney vera. and i want to talk about utilities, but first i want to get your thoughts, right? if so the jobs report out, leading into this jobs report most of the data was pretty shaky. outside that ism services number, almost everything was a big miss, you know? and particularly this week, a a db, initial jobless -- adp, initial jobless claims, those kinds of things. what's going on? if it feels like, with the job jobs numbers, it always feels like an outlier these days compared to the rest of the data. >> yeah, the jobs numbers can be debated as to their act rahs a

city as well. what you can clearly see is the lower income and middle income cohorts of society having a rough run of it. i think that's going to be the important going into 2025. the markets, however, are starting to get down about the the idea of the fed if cutting very soon. charles: right. >> i don't think that's going to happen. charles: that was the buzz this week. >> right. charles: going back to last friday's recession, we were dowo the last hour of trading into a weekend on no news. we did it again on monday, and if you still weren't a believer, we did it again on wednesday. didn't have to do it yesterday. and so just the market though wants to go hire, and it has this interest -- higher, and it has this interesting way of turning all the news, the narrative, positive for now. >> isn't that true? a soft landing is the optimal scenario in general, and no landing is not the optimal scenario, and no landing where the economy continues to grow above potential, which it is, where the unemployment rate or, you know, we have 4, but the generation of jobs continues

that above trend rate. it's the no landing scenario. that's not good. soft land having is what everyone's rooting for, but the way i think you play this market, charles, is, look, you can get sectors that are both defensive and offensive, as you said. and i specifically cited one with you, and that's utilities. charles: right. it's historically been the ultimate safe haven, pays a big with dividend. the cash flows coming in, people pay their electric bills, but now the a.i. element is added to it. let me ask you about this commodities boom. commodities is wide-ranging, so many things, so it's hard to put them under one umbrella, but how sustainable is it? >> i think it's sustainable in the sense that chinese data looks to be turning the corner, india is outpacing china. we had had this esg underinvestment in the commodities spectrum for some taoism all of that is net -- time, all of that is net positive. i do like gold, i think energy has upside, and central banks

are diversifying away from the u.s. treasury, they're buying gold. now they're buying copper, you know, that's the word that i got, but i do think what we're seeing is a stockpiling by china, and that's also a near term positive, long-term bear everybody. charles: i got with less than a minute to go, but you travel the world. you're an international investor. a lot of folks are making, saying, hey, you know, a lot of purists, orthodox economic folks saying, hey, we're heading in the wrong direction. it's not just the united states, right? we know around the world the number of trade restrictions have exploded. i mean, from about 300 in 2009 to over 3,000 now. what does that mean for the global economy, and what does it mean for our economy? >> so protectionism is now called industrial policy. so when you hear industrial policy by the biden and trump administrations, china, brazil, germany, we're talking about protectionism. let's just get that out there. so biden kept all of trump's tariffs, added to them. so i don't think there's any

differentiation in terms of the bipartisan adoption of industrial policy. then we have germany and brazil and mexico, everybody railing against and effectively putting tariffs on china. that is weaponizing their stockpiling, so they're dumping on the world, and the world has had it. so my view i is going into the next couple of years, we're going to see an escalation of trade wars. that is inherently inflationary. charles: do trade wars ever lead to live wars with ammunition and things like that? >> we haven't had a one of those in a while but, no -- can charles a harls just be economi- >> economic trade wars. yeah, sanctions, inflation, impact on, you know, potential stagflation. it's just not a good scenario. charles: i kind of understand it in many ways in terms of america, but for a country like mexico where they're getting tons of investment from china, you know, it seems that could be a more dangerous game. >> that's true. i just came back from mexico last week, and china -- i mean, mexico definitely wants to play nice with the united states. that's their bread and butter, and that relationship is

inextricably linked, so that's not going anywhere. charles: thank you very much. >> my pleasure, charles. charles: all right. so looking ahead here, we're going to be covering a lot. we've got hillary kramer coming up on these markets, we're also going to be talking about what people are doing at the supermarket. you're buying more store brands because you can't afford anything else. but first, danielle dimartino booth here to clean up some confusion over the legitimacy of government today that. no one believes in it anymore. we'll be right back. ♪ if carry on, my wayward son. ♪ there'll be with peace when you are done. ♪ if lay your weary head to res- ♪ don't you cry no more ♪ r... and more about discovering magic. rich is being able to keep your loved ones close. and also send them away.

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[ bird squawks loudly ] to a pet shop. meg's moving company uses t-mobile. so she scaled down her fleet to save money. and don's paying so much for at&t, he's been waiting to update his equipment! there's a smarter way to save. comcast business mobile. you could save up to 70% on your wireless bill. so you don't have to compromise. powering smarter savings. powering possibilities. charles: well, the greatest economic debate really in this country right now is what is the true state of the economy. you know, i googled how many economic indicators there are, and the first thing that popped up was from the u.s. department of commerce boldly state thing, quote, we are the world's most trusted, impartial source of comprehensive data about the u.s. economy. i have to say, i'm not feeling a9 lot of trust right now or confidence in the government, the data that comes out of our government these days.

now, my next guest incorporates more sources of data than anyone if i know, so let's get the read on today's jobs number and the economy and the pickle that the fed finds itself in. qi research ceo chief separated gist danielle dimartino booth. today's jobs report was a ball of contradictions and confusion. walk us through it. you had 270,000 jobs but 2500,000 people left the labor force, the unemployment rate for many sectors of the economy went through the roof. what is going on? >> well, charles, i think what's going on is that washington, d.c. has the lowest return to work population in the country. i think they need to take a page out of wall street and bring the workers back with into the office. maybe they need to collaborate a little bit more in order to produce more, oh, i don't know, efficacious data, to use a great big word that economists love. contradictions were everywhere

where. but, charles, at this juncture i don't even look at the contradictions because the revisions are nonstop. month after month after month we get revisions -- charles: right. >> and months later with we get quarterly revisions when we actually ask 20 the million employers what their payrolls are, and that really swings the data. i think it's a lot more entertaining to listen to the hello kit, roaring kitty, he's got more credibility. and by the way, that a unemployment rate of 4%, that was not some rounding miracle, it was 3.96%. it's moving up, charles, and it's moving up at a level that has hit the fed's target. charles: well, so the thing also that's sort of problematic for a lot of folks is you've got the two surveys, right? in the same report. a household survey, the establishment survey. and, you know, at this point is there a better proxy for the labor, for the employment

situation? >> you know, i think there is, because with the household survey that produces the unemployment rate, you're asking the individual are you working, whereas if you're asking through the establishment survey that produces non-farm payrolls, you're asking what jobs exist. when we have record numbers of americans working one full-time job plus a part-time job just -- your next guest is going to talk about people buying lower generic products. when was the last time we talked about buying generic brands at the store? when you've got americans working more than one job but that's counted as two in the number that produces the payroll report, i'm focused on people saying i'm working or or i'm not working. charles: right. i like that. and by the way, speaking of that, you've got a lot of part-time work -- >> oh, my gosh. charles: than full-time work. what -- where does this lead the economy? is a softed landing really in play right now? >> yes. i mean soft as opposed to crash?

you've watched 55 million full-time jobs -- lost 5 million jobs in the last 6 months. great we've got part-time job creation, but again, a loot of people are working -- a lot of people are working two and three jobs just to make ends meet. this is not a strong labor market. do not listen to what they're telling you on the white house lawn are. it's smoke and mirrors that's eventually going to be revised away. and i think if you asked the average working american man and woman on the street, they would agree with me. charles: before i let you go, one thing that i've been worried about and this kind of data and the way it comes through, we all of a sudden see something's great, great, great, then it falls off the cliff. we've seen a bunch of economic points, and now it's starting to happen with used vehicles, right? they're just falling off a cliff. and the reason i bring that up is the fed is going to continue to be data-dependent.

could they be caught flat-footed when the real data the reveal ises itself in a series of economic reports including one of these jobs reports? >> i think the fed is going to be caught flat-footed, to use your word, charles. we have to remember that back in december of 2007 when we turned into 2008 early on, the the unemployment rate had been inching up a tenth at a time, exactly what we're seeing now and then, boom, it was moving up at three-tenths, four-tenths of a time. the fed's got its eye on the wrong target. insurance for -- car insurance is not going to go up again, and yet they're focused on one-off factors while wage inflation is taking it on the chin as full-time jobs are eviscerated. the fed's focused on the wrong thing. you're right, there's going to be an unemployment rate shock upwards, and the fed's going to be caught flat-footed. charles: and i think's why the market is not crashing right now. i think the market really believes that the fed is in play even if the fed doesn't know el.

danielle, thank you very much. >> thank you. charles: yeah, blowout, strong, these are the kinds of words we've been hearing to describe the jobs report, but the red flags have piled up, folks. we want to kind of talk about the fact that these are more than numbers, these are human beings, americans, and a lot of them are really in trouble. i'm going to get more on the true health of this economy from two of the best economists that i know. meanwhile, are you feeling nostalgic maybe for mullets, leg warmers, parachute pants? i was able to join the ultimate '80s quiz show hosted by legendary host chuck woolery. the show is a blast. '800s quiz show now, it's available on fox nation. you will love it. we'll be right back. ♪ if under pressure ♪ investment opportunities

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hold up - yeeerp? i can't talk right now, i'm at a silent retreat. cashback on everything you buy with chase freedom unlimited with no annual fee. how do you cashback? chase. make more of what's yours. charles: wall street economists, even brilliant, seasoned pros, saw this morning's jobs report or and had to run back to the labs, sharpen those pen kills. 2722 -- pen pencils. my next guest is still projecting slowing in the second is half of the year. want to bring in michelle gerard. and, michelle, listen, i have no clue how anyone can model these

monthly jobs reports. [laughter] really, i mean, think about the revisions particularly over the last 18 months. this revision wasn't that bad, but bloomberg had a piece i saying that their work saw 730,000 fewer jobs. it's a tough gig that you've got there. i think i have a better shot at going and playing bingo tonight somewhere. how do you do it? if. >> yeah. well, i agree with you, you know? forecasting these numbers is not for the faint of heart, and that is always why we caution not overreacting to any one number, you know? it was -- the conversation that you just had was spot on in terms of the data this morning in the sense that we're getting two different messages when you look at the payroll numbers which is what companies are saying, the number of people they paid in a month, and when you look at what the household survey or what people were literally telling you whether or not they're working were saying. there's a real disconnect. the payroll numbers are suggesting payrolls have been up

averaging over 240,000 a month year to date. the household survey equivalent is saying we've had 3,000 jobs added per month. is so there's a big disconnect in part because the estimates that the household -- sorry, that the payroll survey is using for businesses that are either starting or going out of, you know, or going out of business, that could get revised, and that could lead to revision ises. but for right now we're sending two different messages. i tend to be, though i usually don't focus more on the household survey, it doesn't seem to be less accurate right now, it is more aligned with other broader gauges of the labor market. charles: and we see it, there's these regional fed surveys, you know, the adp this week, initial jobless claims going up. >> exactly. charles: and i also wonder the same report we hear 250,000 people are leaving. it's just -- i'm one of these folks, the first thing i look at is pampleghts i just want americans hitting the bricks, looking and finding jobs.

>> right. well, one of the things i will say about the participation rate this month -- which fell, but a big part of that drop was in the kind of new, 16 to 24 age group. and this time of year that number's a little bit sol tell because you have -- volatile because you have so many coming in as college students enter the work force because, you know, looking for summer jobs. if you had less than usual -- like, the timing of that can be a little bit tricky. so i'm not as concerned necessarily about the trends in the labor force participation rate. they're moving in the right are direction. charles: okay. >> it's interesting to note that most of this gain or, i should say, the gains that we saw are conning to be in foreign-born workers as opposed to native-born or national, you know, domestic workers. that actually, full-time employment, you know, based on citizenship was actually down in the month.

charles: the productivity boom, i've got 30 seconds, you know, at the beginning of the year that was the narrative. we've got the productivity boom. it's either stalled, dying on the vine? was it premature to celebrate the new productivity boom, or is it still with us? >> well, i tell you the data are suggesting at the moment somewhat better second quarter gdp. and if that's the case while the employment situation is less, so far the productivity numbers would be holding in. i mean, my expectations though is, is that the gdp numbers are not going to be as a strong going forward. charles: right. >> and so that will be a reflection in pat of not only slower -- in part of slower labor market, but also a slower productivity growth. charles: michelle, you put it on the line. i salute you. you're one of the best -- >> thanks, charles. charles: have a great weekend. >> okay, bye-bye. charles: thanks. my next guest says that data quality does remain an overture

of concern. neilly -- millie with us. the quality seems to have deteriorated, you look at how few people take these surveys. and yet fiscal and monetary policy is all built on this data, particularly the jobs report. and if that's what bothers me. we've got policies that are being directed, built on something that feels faulty. >> it's true, and we've got the fomc, of course, next week, and that's going to be a critical one because we get an update to the summary of economic projections. and so it will be interesting to see how they deal with these two different -- the tale of two different jobs reports. but even with the data quality issues, charles, we do think you can kind of try to zoom in on some micro themes to try to be able to zoom out and make some sense out of it. charles: so -- >> one of the things that we -- charles: thank you, go ahead. you anticipated my next question. [laughter] >> the one that we're really looking at very closely, we've

been louder and louder about -- i mean, i hear what michelle says, to not be so caught up in the 20-24 age demographic, but we're watching that one really, really closely. and i've got to tell you, that unemployment rate jumped from 6.3 in may '23 to 8% in just one year. so that is something that concerns us because that's gen-z, you know? they're onboarding into the job market. charles: right. so does that suggest that folks with college degrees having a tougher time getting into the labor with force? >> you know, i will tell you anecdotally, that certainly seems to be the case. i think you know i also am a professor at a local university here in minneapolis, and i'm spending a lot of time over the summer months helping and coaching some of my students who are applying for 90900 and -- 100 and 2200 jobs is and not even getting interviews. it's a reflection of supply and demand, and we have numbers today that that speak to that. so it's anecdotal and it's in

the data. charles: do we know how much of that is also maybe a by-product of this major boom in foreign-born workers who apparently are getting all of the jobs? what's the story there? >> it's a great question, and it's one to bed asked, for sure. but -- to be asked, for sure. but perhaps the bigger issue is at the beginning of this year when we started our budgets as cfos, we thought we were going to get 6-7 rate cuts and now it's 00, it's 11. i mean, all of -- 0, it's 11. all of these shops thought it was july, it's then september, then november for that first rate cut. and so could it just be that people are kind of culling their overall budgets and removing those entry-level position ifs. i mean, i think that could be the bigger issue. charles: yeah, it's -- something is going on. and we hear it in surveys, survey after survey. people can't feed themselves, anxiety, and then we get the government data and everything's hunky dory.

i've got less than a minute to go. what is your greatest concern right now with our economy? >> you know, the greatest concern is that we plunk if along and don't do anything about it, that we make it election-focused instead of actually addressing the issues. similar to the last election, when we all knowing we all know that powell should have moved earlier in starting to hike rates. is he going to wait too long to bring them back down. and i think that was the hindsight 20/20, and i think we're going to have a hindsight 2024, right? is what we're going to have. charles: wow. great, great, great point. i think that's the greatest risk as a well. i keep saying it, i don't like they're so-called data-dependent because it's so backward-looking that by the time they get their signal, it's going to be, you know, a lot of -- let's say cleanup on i'll 8. -- aisle 8. appreciate it. >> yes, sir, thank you.

charles: it's a critical time for the markets which is why i invite everyone watching, listen to me, i write daily market commentary tear every single day, i go home and write and dig further, and i thinking further. i've got subscribers who have been with me for 30 years, but i share my commentary for free. go go to wstreet.com, it's free and posted every single day. my next guest says that one sector is just like a cash machine, and also a grab a pen and pad because hillary kramer's here with several ideas for you to make money on the long and short side right after this. ♪ ♪

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you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock...” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it's not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that's uncalled for. ♪ charles: all right, folks, here's the real deal with this market, right? it looks like, oh, man, anyone can make money, throw a dart. it's the exact opposite. take out nvidia, a few other names, and it's so tough that only 65% -- actually, 65% of names are underperforming, and even the so-called great earnings season we just had? more stocks got whacked than rewarded. my next guest says the market will become even more selective, there can be a ton of money made shorting as well as going long. i want to bring in portfolio manager hillary kramer. ing first, of course, got to

talk about the overall, though, resolve of the market. you know, going back to last friday we were down, looked like we were going to crash into the weekend. we rallied into a weekend. same thing monday. down, rally -- tuesday, rally. today, down, we're trying to rally yet again on a jobs report that should have sent this market reeling. what is -- is it smoke and mirrors? what keeps this market up? >> the market keeps going up because the group think is that it's an election year and that president biden will do whatever it takes to make a sure that he's reelected which means -- charles: so lots of money pouring in. so you say cutting rates, i'm glad you said that. neely -- who was on last? neely, i think. she's worried that powell may wait with too long because of the election. that he doesn't want to seem political, so that instead of cutting rates now because enough americans are really suffering and not waiting for rich people to suffer, that he's going to make a things a lot worse. you think the implication is that powell will cut rates in

part to help biden. >> absolutely, yes. powell wants to keep his job. that's been and stays exactly our theory. that's why we see the market continuing to -- charles: so the fed if is always in play, or even when the data doesn't come out to support rate cuts, in your mind -- hey, listen, it's working. i mean, the market is, you know, there's initial, golly, we didn't get what we want, let's rally anyway. we know powell's got our back because powell wants to keep his job. >> powell wants to keep his job, and he wants to make sure that that he keeps biden happy and in the white house so, yes, he keeps his job. but what it means though is that the everyday investor, the everyday consumer completely squeezed, as you said, and credit is going to start to really crack. especially for the consumer. on the big institutional level, the big banks, not the regionals which we've been watching today, but the big banks, they're fine. they've a taken care of themselves because they've sold off the debt. they've sold it to pension funds

of hard working public and private employees. so the banks are well positioned. so that's why wall street keeps going up. they don't have to worry about a middle america. charles: we're running out of time. i want to share some of your long ideas, palantir, reddit and arm. those are intriguing. we're going to put those on the screen. but i want about to talk about the short side. soxx and utility. you are going completely against the grain on this. [laughter] >> i know. our theory behind it which is as nvidia rises, the other side of the trade institutionally is to short the stocks,, the semiconductor index, the soxx. it isn't like the pie just keeps getting bigger, the money just keeps going to nvidia which is one of the reasons why we also look at the palantirs, for example, which is artificial intelligence-driven company. charles: right. >> because eventually we're going to get to the point even with the stocks dub the stock

split will, obviously, make nvidia continue to rise. but we're getting to the point where wall street's going to rook for its next darling and bring it up 1,000%. and you have a company like palantir with $50 billion plus market cap which is nothing in this economy -- charles: right. >> -- in this market. and that really makes $2.3 billion in revenue and is growing double digits. and it's few artificial intelligence, database, counter-- charles: and as we go, you're not buying utilities as a derivative play for a.i -- >> absolutely not. charles: okay. gotta leave it there. hillary kramer, folks. all right. you just heard her, right? consumers are getting hammered. and as a result, they are shifting from name brand stuff in the supermarkets to whatever the supermarket brand is, in that's really a sign. i'd lo to hear from you. are -- i'd love to hear from you. tweet me cb payne. we've got a great panel coming up to discuss it next.

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has no clue what's going on. there's serious issue ntsb economy and some maybe not so serious issues in this economy. bring in lydia and lauren simonetti to have a discussion about the economy and what's really happening. i thought the most intriguing thing i saw this week, the number one issue for young americans in this election, not student loans, not abortion, not guns. it's housing. or the inability to own a house. i just want to remind the american public, just what it's going to take to get housing affordability down. okay, one of three things has to happen. home prices come down 41%. lauren: 41%. charles: incomes going up 69% or mortgage rates coming down 4.3% points or more. mortgage rates coming down but a great recession. only way to buy a house to me, lauren, is if you wait for after

the next major recession. lauren: oh, god, i don't know where to begin because i'm depressed by hearing all this and that explains the state of the country why young people are changing their feelings about how they're going to vote on the economy. houses, i know people that bought and selling for double. is it worth it? 70% of americans have a 3% mortgage. you're not letting go of that. even if you can make money and got yourself into a new house and can't afford that new house. for young people especially, they want to own some of the american dream and they can't. charles: it's definitely a dream deferred, but i see tiktok video of old folks dancing and theme that bought their house 20, 30 years ago for $100,000 and never did any upgrades and selling for $2 million. there's re-sentiment out there about this, lydia. >> god bless those folks and they deserve it and should get their opportunity to celebrate that and enjoy their golden years and doesn't mean younger

people can't also have a problem too. we're having increasing demographic of folks stuck at home living with mom and dad and i spoke to one young women on varney who moved home four years ago thinking it was going to be temporary and because of escalating rent as well, she still can't get back out on her feet. it's not just owning a home, it's living on your own that's becoming for elusive for the younger generation. i can't fault them for being angry about this. charles: people making adjustments and super market brands. people are buying super market brands and people are going below and this care and lauren: people are buying jessica genert food? charles: yeah. lauren: whoa, i thought they

didn't spare any expense. >> i'm a loyalist with diapers and need a quality diaper for my children and not myself. i'm a mother of two. my son is still in diapers, and he needs the good, needs the best quality ones that has saved me many a situations. charles: i don't blame you in that one. lauren: i have a lot of things i won't skimp on. i find myself buying store brand for many things these days. embarrassing think so at times and store brands getting better and more expensive. wal-mart has a premium food brand now better brands. >> it's great. charles: back in the day you knew it was the brand saying white box and brand x. lauren: it's a badge of honor

buying something cheaper like i know how to deal with inflation and i'm trading down and proud of it. charles: airline haves come up with something at least united airlines and talking about putting adds in the seat of -- ads in the seat in front of you. lauren: love it and hate it. they need a new stream of revenue and average flight is 3.5 hours and looking at the screen in front of you and you'll sit and watch l ads and the airline or the company will bring in more revenue and might buy something as a result of it. we've accepted ads and buy the cheaper netflix, ad tier one saving us money. charles: they're not discounting your ticket and they enentice us with the netflix thing. >> you can opt out and say don't use my data showing me certaintizement ands they're going to -- advertisements and they're going to distinguish the ads whether it's in economy or first class. i'd love to know what the first class ad looks like. charles: i'd like to know.

i'll let you know. i'll let you know. lauren: do they have ads in private jets. jets in he didn't answer. charles: the robotaxis are getting better. they have a new one called zook. they've come a long way. are you guys ready? i think we're going to have someone on the show. there it is right there on the screen. >> what i was not crazy about reading about the zook, is that there's no windows on the front or back so you don't have clear visibility of where you're going as you're moving forward. i think it's asking for a lot overuse from your passengers and i want to see the road as where moving down. lauren: can i underline that, in the reel zoox, not the test

vehicle, there's no steering wheel or human safety protection driver for protection. charles: in the real autonomous world, there's nothing, no steering wheel or pedals. lauren: no option. charles: i can't let you guys go, did you see this with tesla. 30 seconds they're in the alcohol business and have a mez cal selling outside of the country. that looks so cool. it's $450. would you buy it? lauren: for the bottle and keep as a does play. >> wow. charles: i think they should compromise and if you bought tesla's stock in the last year, they should send you a bottle. lauren: that's a good idea. charles: drown away your sorrows for a bit. lauren: or the cyber truck is stupid delayed, a bottle of the $450. charles: i love that stuff. i don't need to drink it. i like the bottle better than the cyber truck. thank you, ladies, very, very much. lauren: $430? costco h