nearly 50% of young children went into debt after trip to one of disney's theme parks. average ticket of four, 700. five days, 2500. i glad we got to this. i don't encourage people going into debt. i encourage kids giving experiences, but makes me sad. >> if milley wants to go to disney i have to take her. brian: don't go into debt for it. >> but she is millie. she has to go do disney. brian: rent a car. save money, go to local theme park or 4th of july carnival. cheaper. jackie: that is true. there are other cheaper options. families can explore those, staying together, having fun is important, especially in the summer. send it over to charles payne. charles: i thought you were tacking about the traveling karn

sales in the mall. brian: that is what i am talking about. charles: i'm a little too big for those but i loved those growing up. see you later. good afternoon, i'm charles payne. this is "making money." breaking right now the s&p 500, we're rocking and rolling again. the debate is growing, is the market too narrow and too late. we have both sides of the argument. the "magnificent seven" went to magnificent five, fab four, now really one ant its partners, right? there is now a race for perhaps the first company to get to four trillion. should you bet on all of them? remember we talked about the financialization of our economy and the markets? it is sweeping the globe. so is pop you -- pup populism. number one thing students are concerned about, it ain't student debt. tweet me @cvpayne.

i have so much more on "making money." ♪. charles: so as we come into the week on the surface last week it was mind-boggling, right? another great week for the stock market. we outperformed the rest of the world. look how much we outperformed the rest of the world. going back to march of last year, just crushing everything in our way. nothing can beat the s&p 500. why would you look anywhere else. it is not about just what is happening the last month or so this market simply refused to yield much ground. we've gone 329 days without a 2% or greater correction. but, the s&p, of course we know the 2024 rally really it's a lot more than that, right? the composition of it, is the dominance of just a few names. that's really what has gotten everyone's attention. we're rallying here, but you can see, the breadth is really odd, it is really odd. according to dan christian son, the percentage of s&p 500 stocks

are outperforming the index, just tremendous, only been this low, only this low one time before. we're talking 18%. you have to go back to 1955, right. that is when general electric was rocking. so general electric, general motors, rather. general motors was killing it. this is it, folks, only 18% of stocks are outperforming yet we keep making new highs and new highs. yet keep note if you go back to the 1955, 1956 point you can use that as a historical reference. the rally did continue for a while but it peaked in 1956. it went down here into recession. maybe there is room based on historical precedence but it is worrisome. maybe the most worrisome aspect of the rally, this is something everyone talked about, it is not only that the names, a lot of names haven't participated, the ones who haven't participated, the hammer is coming down hard. i mean you know, you own quality

stocks. look at this! this is last week. we've come crashing down, the number of stocks in the s&p 500 that are trading above their 200-day moving average is down to 50%. we were significantly higher than that. so, i think this might explain why we finished at another week at a new high, markets are rocking and rolling, somehow the fear and greed index has gone deeper. it is so deep, in fact the whole thing shut off. there we go. so we shot into 39% fear, i mean this is really weird. so, we're going to talk about this. my first guest says it is unlikely that this narrowness can continue long term. i will bring in now main street asset management cio erin gibbs. again the 39% here is kind of problematic, kind of worrisome for a lot of folks. let's talk about this. i can't get it to move. so we'll leave it there. >> yep. jackie: charles: you say the setup can't last but may be a sign of a

recession? small caps getting hammered, narrowness of the big caps? >> right. so a lot of it is saying there is risk aversion, there is a lot of fear out there. we want to be in what a lot of investors view as the safety stocks and not necessarily as much as the, retail investor is also going into the household names, the names they know. charles: right. >> they're not going out into names that they're not so familiar with. it is not something you buy every day or hear about every day. so that lack of breadth is really concerning because we're just not seeing investors go all in into u.s. equities and the u.s. economy as a whole. charles: but they're all in on the leaders, right? >> right. charles: they're note afraid to be in these names that are more expensive and more expensive and yet everything else they're saying i don't -- not even not being in them, erin, these stocks are getting hammered. i have quality names getting hit for no other other than they're taking money out and chasing a handful of names. >> it is really constrained there is no alternative type of

market where europe is looking so bad, the elections are really scaring off investors, particularly countries where banks are the majority of the economy like italy, greece, portugal, spain, those are the countries that are really taking a hard hit because those are the countries that could be hit the hardest by these new elections and going -- charles: what are you suggesting then? skip europe, particularly european banks. >> do not invest europe. charles: what about owning some of these megacap names? >> i would say start looking to take money off the table, being ready to pivot. this type of narrowness, doesn't necessarily mean we have a down market. it has many times t could mean we'll see rotation where the market is a little more flat, slightly down and what you will see a rotation out of these high growth names and into more value stocks and stocks that are, are the sort of unknowns, the ones that are not --

charles: that transition, i keep thinking about alan greenspan, december 1996. >> right. charles: irrational exuberance. for about three days the market was down, three days. >> right. charles: 3:00 days, we got more irrational, more exuberant. do you ride them until the wheels come off? >> yes. that's a great point. you don't do this until the trends are actually broken. i'm saying the warning signs are there. there is like flashing signs saying hey this might happen but this might not happen for another 12 months. as we see these charts we're looking at decade long histories it can run for another 12 months, 18 months but be aware, be ready. i would certainly say if you have big up days and you are overweight in nvidia, microsoft, apple, this might be as good of a time as any to take cash off the table to be ready to -- charles: trim but don't get completely out? no one knows when this may stop? >> exactly, exactly. charles: what if you have quality names that aren't moving, quality stocks? you can see, these are

companies, let's say they're taking market share in their industry, they have got margin improvement, they have amazing he can execution, but do you bite the bullet? >> once we get out of this obsession with the top three seven names -- charles: a lot of people coming on tv are saying this is the first inning, this obsession you're talking about. hey, get on board, that will last another five to seven years? >> ultimately institutional investors still control about 80% of all stocks or own 80% of all stocks. they are the ones that will make the bigger moves as much as we like to talk about the social media meme stocks and it is really a lot about a lot of risk aversion on institutional side, they're saying hey, this is too expensive. i'm concerned about getting all in. charles: right. >> we'll look for a little more bullishness and better signs from the economy as well. >> so participate but don't drink the kool-aid? >> yeah. don't drink the kool-aid.

charles: not long ago it used to be a race, right to a trillion dollar market cap. now it is a race to four trillion. we'll ask gary kaltbaum and david nelson, how they're participating in the great race next. ♪. ♪(voya)♪ there are some things that work better together. like your workplace benefits and retirement savings. presentation looks great. thanks! thanks! voya provides tools that help you make the right investment and benefit choices so you can reach today's financial goals. that one! and look forward, to a more confident future. that is one dynamic duo. voya, well planned, well invested, well protected.

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ask your rheumatologist about cosentyx. ♪. charles: so in the spring of 2017 wall street's favorite parlor game was which stock would be the first to reach one trillion in market cap. you remember that? it was a two horse race. apple, only 255 billion away, but amazon was the hot stock. it had been charging 42% a year. it was a real horse race. wedbush says over the next year the race will be for the first four trillion dollar stock. my next guest will probably be rooting all of the contenders, since he owns all of these stocks. bring in kaltbaum capital management, fox contributor gary kaltbaum. gary, at this stage of the game do we simply ride out, there will be inevitable bumps, these are high beta stocks, instead of buying on dips should we ride it out? >> charles, some of the moves

i've been seeing in the megacaps pretty much getting for the record now. our latest we bought apple as it broke the big 200, which was a 11 month breakout, it is up 10% in a matter of days, apple? whatever the market is deciding here we'll go along with it. we got apple, microsoft, qualcomm, of course the nvidia and some others an whatever's doing this right now, my friend, i hope it continues for a few more months, but we all know that eventually the market will decide what where valuations should stop but right now it's on the go. there is new stuff coming on every single day. netflix breaks out today. lam research in the last few days, other semiconductors. the semis are almost vertical right now. charles: yeah. >> again we worry, we're always paranoid, we always worry. all i can tell you, today i thought we would come in for a sleep by week. they're jumping all over the big stuff.

charles: they are. that's what i mean. we came in a little stalled. i think they wait for a few sellers to sell, then they pounce, right? listen the real story is nvidia and supporting actors at this point. here is a question. could the rally survive if something went wrong with nvidia? >> that would be rough. it is the head honcho, top dog, big cheese right now but i have to tell you, you've got domino's pizza breaking out, just a bunch of restaurants, chipotle is going insane to the upside. there is other things showing up right now. so even if nvidia goes i think we'll be in okay shape. i've been whining and complaining how the broad market is so darn week. it remains even though it woke up a little bit today. for me this is the worst narrow market in history, but the best narrow market in history for somebody with a keen eye for the leadership and right now, all i can tell you it is a big wow and keep my fingers crossed. give me a few months of this i'm

a happy guy. >> i guess so as long as you're long them. you looking at the notes, may a lot of money in dell, tesla, netflix. >> a few things. charles: what are you waiting to buy? why wait if they start to move, feels like the greater fool theory on steroids? >> you always want to be careful but tesla may be waking up. we know when that thing gets going it gets going. as we said netflix is breaking out. dell they just gapped down on earnings. looks like it is being defended. let me throw, we own facebook, meta, i guess there was some bad news from the attorney agenda or, whoever thinks that marijuana is good but nicotine is bad. he says social media be careful. so they were down early. i got to tell you, i think meta will go to the old highs also which is another 25 points. let's hope that continues. so, yeah, these are just things. i would tell every viewer right now, go look at the new high

list every night, look for the big brand names that you know. the market is just paying up for them. in retail it is the costcos, not the targets. right now i think the big brand names i'm going along with it, and again, i don't know how long it lasts or how far it goes, but another darn good day, my friend. charles: to your point. we had dell. we got out at 3:00 the day they had earnings. the stock got hammered after the close. i felt brilliant. we asked our subscribers to get back in. because they come back so quickly. >> it is getting defended here. we'll see. charles: we'll see. thank you so much. again, folks the storyline is set. for traditionalists we have a lot on the show they're pushing back against this rally and a lot of them are pointing to basic valuation, p-e ratio, in this case forward p-e ratio, 21 for the s&p 500, the rest of the market way behind, the question though has rules of the game changed when it comes to valuation and other traditional

valuation methods? let's bring in belpointe chief strategist david nelson. david, how wedded are you to p-e ratios, forward p-e ratios, those traditional hallmarks? >> we have to look down into the numbers. the numbers speak volumes. there are reasons why these stocks are going up because that's where the earnings is, the fundamentals. s&p 500, there is 97 megacap names, 374 large cap names. they're doing just fine. the earnings are just fine. if you look at the mid-cap index, 32 mid-cap names in there all down any timeframe you want to get at. kudos to david cost at that on some of the work he has done on this. last quarter, five of the biggest names on the street had 84% earnings growth. charles: right. >> they saw their estimates go up 38% for the rest of the year. the other 495 we're looking at the estimates were cut 5%. that tells the story. charles: he was bearish. he went from 4700 to 5400. >> pretty quickly.

charles: pretty quickly. this is a parade nobody wants to miss and yet you just described the narrowness based on fundamentals that will perhaps get even more narrow perhaps. do you ride those for now like we were just talking with gary? >> as long as the story is intact. i think the bigger question here what are investors going to do when there is the inevitable correction. reverse to the mean is a very powerful force and we know a lot of these names will restench, 10, 15ers 20%. charles: sounds like you're suggesting if we turn we'll turn hard and fast? >> if we do, what will you do at that point. if the fundamentals haven't changed, fundamentals haven't changed, you want to buy into those names or maybe add to the positions already accumulated. >> buy into what positions? the ones already rocking? >> probably the ones you missed on the way up part of the same theme. it tells you the economy is not as healthy as we thought. charles: large cap up 3.5%, core growth up 1.5%, median growth,

up .8 of aers p everything else got hammered. for the year large cap growth up 20%. value, small cap value down 3%. >> there is a reason. charles: are the fundamentals that bad for small cap names or just not enough oxygen in the room. >> they are. if you look we have two markets, two companies. a lot of companies don't have pristine balance sheets that microsoft, nvidia have. they need access of to working capital that ain't cheap. as long as these companies will be challenged. charles: watching adobe me and walmart. >> i own them. when adobe i saw the number that's it, they managed to turn the tide. charles: as gary mention, once a new name appears, hey, that's a buy. everyone pounces on it. >> still seven million shares short. charles: before we go, 30 seconds i want to give you kudos, if you're still long these. recent idea you shared last six months on the show.

apple, google, vst. all grand slams? >> i don't hold them all. most of them are on the list. vst is not on the list. charles: thanks. jim thorn is hearing he can folks of history when it comes to the i am dak of elections. we're talking about one of the most brilliant guys out there. we'll talk to him about that and some other key issues that are beneath the service for wall street but means everything to main street. we'll be right back. ♪. [thunder rumbles] ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ the biggest ideas inspire new ones. 30 years ago, state street

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charles: all right, folks a lot of people believe in what they call the 80/20. goes back to a guy, paretto principles. in that case reveals majority of stock market right now, just like life, right, 20% making 80% of the moves and if that's the case what does it mean from here, okay? because how much longer can it continue? i want to bring in a very special guest right now, wellington private wealth capital, chief market strategist jim thorn. so, jim, i hadn't seen you in so long. >> 25 years, charles. charles: 25 years. it is so weird, because i was just reading a bunch of work and i stumbled on some of the work

that you've been writing. i went deeper into the rabbit hole and deeper into the rabbit hole. this guy is brilliant. i didn't know i knew you. let's talk about this 80/20 rule other as it applies to the current market. >> when you go back to 1990, 3% of the stocks create all the stock market returns. if we use the s&p 500, three times five that is 15 stocks, man. this is normal. >> this is nothing. we shouldn't be going crazy, it is too narrow, crazy, red flags going on? this is normal for you, for us? i mean this is normal we don't realize it is normal? >> the thing about buffett, look at number one holding, he finds the cycle, owns a ton of coca-cola or owns a ton of apple, people are overdiversified. i'm not saying you shouldn't diversify, but the whole thing, you look at the data, this is exactly what we should be expecting. no one should be surprised about this, charles. charles: interesting you say

that, now if you watch financial media, wall street is coming around a little bit, i have a hard time getting my clients to buy these stocks but for decades, for a century they told every one you have to be diversified, you have to own 50 stocks. were they just trying to sell products? >> i don't think they have looked at the data. i think we lack context. at wellington what i'm allowed to do, call it like it is balls and strikes. look it, we're going much higher. the leadership is going not going to change. the fed is late. let's get over that fact and position the portfolios accordingly. charles: talk about the fed being late. does that mean recession is inevitable? i mean on a near term horizon? >> no. because what is saving the united states relative to every other economy in the world is innovation that is happening right now, okay? if we didn't have innovation in a.i. and crypto in the united states we would have a recession. that is what distinguishes the united states from every other market and every other economy. charles: when we see those

charts, there is a chart from last week, u.s. market 165% of the global market. folks say that is a sign again being toppy, get out, invest elsewhere. you say that is a reflection of american exceptionalism. this is the place to be. everyone is trying to make this way too difficult. look at all the stocks you talked about recently. all the innovation is happening here. all the leadership is happening here. why would you want to about, for example, to invest in europe? don't say it is cheap, charles. is that our go-to, because it is cheap for a reason? charles: funny i say that all the time. every year in january, that's what you get. you get two things. go in small caps because they have underperformed. go to europe because it underperformed. it underperformed for a decade. your february note, it was really interesting, echoes of history in financial markets in a post-pandemic world, subtitled trump's shadow. how is this election playing into this market or has it yet? >> it hasn't yet and i think the

interesting thing is going to be, i think we're very constructive until the middle of next year. it will really be interesting to see what mr. trump does on one issue as far as i'm concerned. it is going to be fiscal responsibility. i think he needs to come clean and say are we going to spend like we did like the democrats did? or will we have a little bit of fiscal responsibility. charles: right. >> if we does that, we have secular bull market to the end of the decade, to the end of decade. charles: another issue coming about is financialization. there are a lot of different definitions. i will give you definition for the audience. countries away from financial capitalism. companies buying back their stock instead of investing in cap-ex, those kind of things. are you concerned? >> any company that issues debt or stock, to buy back stock or pay a dividend is a red flag. all the leaders we've been talking about in the united states that are innovators, they're not doing that.

if they're buying back stock it is out of free cash flow. it is a red flag. i don't see it in the leaders of the united states. charles: 30 seconds to go, every core 6,000, last week citi got more constructive. i think kostan went from 47 to 54. you say now that wall street is on board fomo begins now? >> yes. charles: [laughter]. so interesting because they always talk about the dumb money but they're the ones who are chasing, the brilliant folks down in the canyons of wall street? >> true fact. yes, sir, what i would suggest to you, 6500 by the middle of next year. fomo isto kick in. unfortunately in wall street not when we first met where we basically did research and had context. now it's johnny-come-lately and let's follow the herd. charles: great stuff. good to see you again after all these years. charles, we talked about poppism, which we know is a global phenomenon, pushing back on socialism. last week we saw shocking

results in these elections. europe of course, france's president macron lost his mind. he is panicking. ironically the elites worry about the continent having a continent wide brexit. here is the irony, london overtaken paris as the financial center of europe again the i want to bring in heritage economist peter st. onge. we saw south africa, they formed a pro-business unity government, the south african market rallied. seems like the markets are speaking up pretty loud and clear what they want to see here? >> absolutely are. during brexit we had this whole fear campaign right, where the establishment tried to scare voters into thinking that any kind of radical change was going to be a disaster and you think the thing to keep in mind here is that markets in general, especially bond markets, they don't like change. if you go back to the collapse of the soviet union, which was obviously a good thing for the people that lived there, the

ruble collapsed, the bonds collapsed, financial markets don't like change, they're like cranky 90-year-olds any change, good or bad, they don't like it, if we strip away the fear campaign what is happening in europe, as you say voters are waking up. they don't like this sort of coalition of left and soft right, national unity that is pushing you know migration, global warming, the ukraine war and so on. so voters are standing up against it. going by the results they did it in germany, they did it in france, really doing it across the block, where sort of the rubber is hitting the road in france where he called these snap elections and the debate is he playing 3d chess or playing checkers after couple drinks. charles: i think he is playing checkers after couple drinks on the titanic but that is just me. how much of this element do you see factoring toward the outcome of our election? >> i think for sure, if we go back to 2016, i think brexit

actually excited a lot of trump supporters because for decades it felt like nothing changes. they keep piling stuff on. nothing we do makes a difference. i think brexit really kind of excited people, wait a minute if we all vote together we do live in a democracy after all. so i think for sure, if we start to see radical change in europe, a lot of people here in the u.s., they watch europe, they still reference that at least as a kind of indicator what is possible. charles: right. i got to tell you, again, to your point. i'm glad to see how badly the greens lost in germany. so seeing how the west seems to be rudderless ship in this regard how much of that is the reason for this meteoric rise in gold as a reserve asset, now only second to the u.s. dollar? we see, we got the chart up here, pete, it shows like in the aftermath of the global financial crisis gold again became sort of the place for

comfort particularly for central banks? >> yeah. it's really been amazing. in the 1990s we heard gold was obsolete. this is like the greek cods, like some relic from a foregone age and since 2008, if you actually look what central banks are doing, they're buying it hand over fist, those numbers may be undercounting because a lot of china and russia gold isn't necessarily reported. so central banks are acting as if they think that the dollar is in danger, or that there is some massive crash coming where they want to be hedged in gold. you know there was a senior dutch central bank came out and said that, that was sort of a conspiracy theory, yeah, we are hedging for disaster. you know, don't believe what they say, believe what they do. charles: i'm surprised you didn't say a former dutch. professor st. ong, always great pleasure to have these conversation.

>> definitely, charles. charles: my next guest says the bullish sentiment helped send the market through the roof. you don't hear that on wall street too much. adam kobeissi is here to share with us and where he is most bullish right now. ♪. your best defense against erosion and cavities is strong enamel. nothing beats it. i recommend pronamel active shield because it actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. i think that this product is a game changer for my patients. it really works.

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and bring on the good stuff. charles: our next guest has been bullish. he has a target of 5500. joining me kobeissi letter, editor-in-chief, adam kobeissi. before we update various asset groups. what caught my attention, in part because of risk appetite and bullish sentiment. what is interesting to me, of course, bullish sentiment surged for retail investors last week. when they were asked about the factors that most influence their outlook, the overwhelmingly picked the economy and inflation. you know we know traditional wall street says there is too much optimism out there, particularly retail, time to head for the hills. you're not in that camp are you? >> no, i mean we haven't been in that camp all year. i feel like that argument could have been made ever since the october low.

our view is more so, right now you don't fight this momentum. it never pays to fight a trend this strong. even if you nail the top one out of 20 times, those other 19 times you're missing out on a pretty huge run and look we've said regardless of what the fed is going to do stocks are heading higher. last week we raised our target to 5500. we're almost there today. we're probably going to raise our target again and i think right now, there, it is a great market to be bullish of stocks. obviously hedge and manage your risk but in the meantime trade other things going on in the background. commodities are i intoing from bullish to bearish, back to bullish. charles: right. >> along with fed expectations, bond markets, i think there is a lot more to trade in the background of equities. charles: i will get more specific with those individual assets but i want to ask you though, you talked about the risk, the risk appetite is huge. we know of course the greater the risk, potentially the greater rewards, also works on the other side, a couple of

guests seemed a little anxious about all of this. what's the risk of something happen out of left field? when everyone is getting too excited does that worry you a little bit? >> i think that's always, you don't want to move with the herd, right? you always want to be kind attentive getting into a crowded trade but at the same time if you're trading on technical basis to determine when the trend is starting to shift. we made mows recent higher low was 5400, the one below that was around 5350. if you're trading above the higher lows and keep pushing higher, it is clear the trend is going up. will you lose out on the first few percentages if you're long in the trend reverses? yeah. i think that is also, just on a risk/reward basis you're betting off riding the trend for now until it shifts. charles: right. >> that's what we do for our subscribers. we put out daily levels and research into saying this is

where the trend is. the trend is still intact. if it flips we're more than happy to trade 9 trend to the downside as well. charles: you have same reason for taking profits in gold, crude oil and bonds. that's that? >> we've been trading this we call it the fed pendulum where it strings from extreme dovish sentiment and extreme hawkish sentiment and back. it never really stops in the middle. it keeps on swinging. we started off the year with six cuts priced in. that was extreme dovishness. we went back to very hawkish expectations. for a week we had zero rate hikes in and rate hikes coming on the table for 2024. we're 20 to 30% chance of a third cut this year, not hike, cut. the fed guided one cut. i think markets expectations are becoming too dovish again. i think that means the u.s. dollar index will rise. that means weakness for gold, oil and weakness for bonds after

pretty solid bond tlt which we were long of as i mentioned last time i was on the show. charles: adam, great stuff. always a pleasure to have you on, my man. looking forward to get you in studio soon. >> sounds good. i will be in new york soon. charles: can you guess what number was the number one voting issue for gen-z? just a hint, student debt is not anywhere near, not immigration, not even abortion. tweet me @cvpayne. we'll talk to amy nixon. also the home-building stocks, they won't stop going up next. ♪. (grandpa vo) i'm the richest guy in the world. hi baby! (woman 1 vo) i have inherited the best traditions. (woman 2 vo) i have a great boss... it's me. (man 1 vo) i have people, people i can count on. (man 2 vo) i have time to give (grandma vo) and a million stories to share.

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the most nutritious and delicious food possible. i'm investing in my dog's health and happiness. charles: all right, so when the federal reserve embarked on this rate-hiking cycle we were told that the way the bureau of labor statistics collects date that there be like a six-month lag with regard to shelter, and

then we were told well, as the data came in there's a 12 -month lag. well now we're being told there's an 18-month lag. meanwhile shelters been over 5% for 26 consecutive months. is shelter really in a freefall or maybe the experts are wrong. we've got the real expert, dfw housing and macroeconomic analyst, amy nixon amy, so what is the real story on shelter? >> so, charles, the real story here is unfortunately, less to do with monetary policy than it does just the fundamental market issue of supply and demand. that is the story behind shelter , and that is what has been running the show for the last four years, and that is why you have seen homebuilder stocks have performed incredibly in both a low rate environment in 2021 you had 300-person wait list for new construction and the builders were basically naming their price and then when rates were hiked in 2022 we saw that homebuilder once again dominated

the show because their main competitor is existing homes and there's a rate lock effect that cut demand or cut sellers wanting to sell those , so then homebuilders took more market share so they are winning across-the-board. charles: so, i've got a brilliant colleague last week i got into a little bit of a scuffle with saying her position is that wall street buying these houses is good for main street. now, i know you've been a critic of airbnb. do you see , are there any real silver lines with wall street scooping up houses and trailer parks? >> i do not see silver lines for that. i think it's honestly, it's a very small fraction of the market right now and a lot of people point to that but all that i see when people say that is it's just more opportunity for them to continue to come in and buy and any time you have private equity buying things in bulk, they tend to just try to make things as cheap as possible , raise the rents or the prices to the maximum that they can squeeze out of consumer

s. it doesn't tend to be good for the average american. charles: so what are we looking at then here? because i know mortgages, i was reading or hearing under 7%. we get a little bit of movement. we did have that mortgage application number that spiked here recently. are we at a place where people are comfortable maybe paying less than 7% mortgages and maybe that starts to move the needle. >> the housing markets at an inflection point right now this year, i think we're starting to see existing supply return to the market that rate lock effect is starting to have less of an impact over time, and that's actually combining with a little bit lessening of demand as we're seeing a little bit of consumer weakness and a slight tick-up in layoffs. the housing market is actually kind of balancing out right now especially in regions where we've been building a lot and i think it's actually possible we may see some negative price numbers in some parts of the country like the texas, the floridas where we've been building a lot in the upcoming six-to-12 months.

charles: it always blows my mind the boom-bust cycle in housing in these hot markets never stops the election just a few months away. many are shocked the top issue for gen z and by a large margin by the way is housing. much more significant than student loans, for instance so here is the question. what could the next president of the united states do to help gen z and everyone else get into a home because kamala harris, vice president harris says they will make a move and make that right. >> it's a tough job for whoever is in the office next. what we've seen from the current administration is they are just offering incentives that are increasing demand and that's not a great solution in an economy where it's a supply issue is the major problem. so i think what we need to see is legislation that's going to discourage people from speculating on investment properties that's going to sort of redistributor encourage re distribution of the current supply that we have and also make it easier to build.

remove regulations, remove red tape. the more supply that we can get out there the better. charles: yeah. the regulation part i think is an undertold story. amy thank you so much. always appreciate it. see you soon. >> thanks. charles: so folks, recent years the geneology industry has exploded in fact is set to reach 13 billion by 2031 and the reason is clear, right? although we romanticized our personal history we do want more details even when we know they could be painful, maybe shock us , even to a point of fresh introvertspection. my next guest was at the "wall street journal" for 19 years and host of the podcast what happened in alabama and as you can see on the screen now the author of "i'm nobody's slave" want to bring in my good friend lee hawkins. it's great to see you. >> great to see you. charles: let's talk about this so you got the contract in 2017. wow. this journey, so it was a long journey. talk about the journey for us.

>> yeah, you know, i had always been interested in my family history, like a lot of people and i just wanted to know about my dad's time in alabama when he was growing up in jim crow and so what i ended up doing was getting this book deal with harp er collins and going through court records talking to family members about oral history. you'll see there i'm at a family cemetery right outside montgomery, and i just traced my family history back 400 years. charles: wow. so my mother's side of my family is from alabama and i've been doing more and more research. in fact i dedicate my last book to my grandparents but every time i did something like that i would look at records, deeds, and different things. i cried a lot, man. how much of an emotional rollercoaster was it for you? >> it was very painful at times , but also very empowering because i got a chance to see how resilient my family was and also, to look into american history and i learned so much, because i was able to find out

that the other side of my family were actually white people and i actually knew one of the guys for 30 years. charles: never know you guys were related? >> never knew we were related and his name is jim pew. he was in wisconsin. i was a young reporter back in the day. he was a pr guy i used to call once a month to get the jobs numbers, and once we found out that we were related, he actually contacted me with his cousin lloyd, who is a family historian, and i was able to trace my family history even further back because i had family members who were from whales and they were the slave owners. charles: so you're related to, you have relatives who were slaves and relatives who were slave owners? >> yes and this is the dark reality of american history we have to confront and look at. charles: by the same token we talked about these tears. they weren't always tears of pain. the strength my grandparents had to take a chance and sell everything they possess just to

own land, i feel like we need those stories for everyone. and it's not a race thing. we're talking about a nation where there's no hope, i'll never have this , i'll never have this. we are down in the dumps. i think we should be reminded of the stock we come from. >> yes. the power of the american story, the black american story is right at the forefront of that. your grandparents, my grandparents were landowners, real estate owners and the fact they were able to do that, not because of america all the time but even despite the jim crow aspect of it is part of a beautiful part of the american story. you know, the civil rights act that wasn't a black person in the congress or the senate at that time. charles: and by the way the civil rights act, larger percentage of republicans voted than democrats. i don't think people realize that. let me ask you though with regard to that, because sometimes, unfortunately, when we look in the past, in terms of the media, it's always in a divisive way in my mind and i feel like we spend too much time re-litigating the past instead

of focused on the future. i loved learning history, my own history as well but are we approaching it wrong from a political media point of view? >> i think the media, a lot of times, is uninformed about history and they take the most egregious examples and really blow them up. in the case of jim and i, jim is a guy who decided that he wanted to do this research with me and we did it together and that's the powerful part of the story. charles: wow. >> we can't change the past but we have control over the present and the future and you're not responsi for father 's sins but what do you do to change? charles: amazing stuff. you can listen to lee on this new podcast. what happened in alabama, right now and his new book is "i'm bes released in january. another great friend, liz claman , over to you. liz: lee is a great journalist. charles: he really is. liz: long time "wall street journal" guy. thank you so much for bringing