quarter, early 2025. and i think the big thing here is that operating margins will stay elevated compared to prepandemic levels and also compared to the prior downturn or trough due to their technology, you know, advancements is and offerings. so investors really want to be stepping in and buying these high quality businesses like deere, you know, during these down cycles. liz: and you also like devon energy and alpha if bet. so you do have one tech stock. dan, it's great to have you. thank you so very much. all right, green on the screen. a lot of volatility in the if close but doesn't show up in the vix which is actually down 1%. we made it through triple witching. monday, mark laurie, finder of jet.com. sold it to walmart, now he's the group finder of wonder. he's going to -- founder of bond. that's going to do it for us, "kudlow" is next. ♪ ♪ larry: hello, folks. welcome to "kudlow," i'm larry

kudlow. all right, record home prices, crashing home sales. the kitchen table issue, and and it's the reason biden right now is losing this election. we've got charlie hurt and katie pavlich going to weigh in on this is and much more in just a couple minutes. but first, the cnn presidential debate just six days away. president trump headed to philadelphia, joe biden heads to camp david. little bit of a difference there. our own grady trimble has all the a gory details. grady, what's cooking? >> reporter: larry, president biden has been laying low, still at camp david getting ready for next week, but reporters did get a glimpse of him to ask him this: >> reporter: mr. president, how is debate prep going? >> reporter: all right. so a thumbs up from the pratt -- president there. and while he stays away from public appearances, former president trump has had several campaign vents this week --

events this week, in michigan last weekend and during the week in wisconsin. this upcoming weekend he's got another rally in another swing state. trump will be in philly on saturday night, a blue city that president biden has visited more than 20 times since his inaugust a raying. and even though -- inauguration. and even though trump has been attacking biden as mentally unfit, trump says he's not taking anything for granted next week. >> i'm not underestimating him. we -- it is what it is. we'll see what happens. but you take a look at the last one, i happen to think he's incompetent for a lot of reasons. i think he's incompetent because he has gotten the worst policies both foreign policy and internal policy. >> reporter: trump says he assumes biden will be a, quote, worthy debater. in many ways though, the trump campaign is looking past next thursday. they're looking to schedule a rally in virginia likely on friday with governor glenn youngkin. larry in. larry: all right.

thanks, grady trimble, appreciate it. so it's a kitchen table election, folks. and that's the subject of the riff. ♪ larry: heading towards the cnn presidential debate next thursday, one would think former president trump would be pulling together a scathing critique on president biden's performance regarding that old political cliche, kitchen table issues, which surfaced again today in the form of an affordability crisis for working folks regarding housing. things like inflation, groceries, gas prices, all that, we're going to get to it in a minute. but today's report, an underrated issue looming larger and larger, unaffordable housing. think about this. existing home sales for may came in just over 4 million units which is the lowest level in 30 years. during the trump years, by the by, home sales running around 6 million. meanwhile with, average home

prices came in at $419,300, that's the average. that is a record high going all the way back to recorded data which began in 1999. pre-pandemic during mr. trump's term, home prices were running around $270,000 plus. and one of the keys to the unaffordable housing crisis is the mortgage rate which has been running pretty consistently around 7% during the biden years compared to under 4% during the trump years. now, it's quite true all these zoning-related regulatory burdens imposed by blue state democrats, that's limited the available supply of homes. it's also insured a lot of those blue state democrats want to incorporate the suburbs into the cities in order to build public housing and force crazy climate regulations and stop gasoline-powered cars and basically destroy the value of

your home. but even the healthier red states high socketing mortgage rates and home prices have made it very difficult if not impossible for working folks of any color or stripe to afford to buy a home. and in particular, that includes younger folks. now, not enough has been written about this from a political standpoint, but it sure should come up in the debate next week. and remember, high inflation and borrowing rates have squelched middle and lower income purchasing power anyway. it's a familiar litany, but it's worth repeating. the level of consumer prices jumped 20% under mr. biden. grocery prices, 211%. gasoline, 45% -- grocery prices, 2%. new and used -- 211. -- 21%. weekly wages for the typical family have a net drop of over 2 percentage points for three and a half years. in other words, workers have not had a pay raise.

in fact, they've had a pay cuts. and if -- cut. and if you throw taxes in, their take-home pay has dropped even more. and back to the kitchen table where in so many families it's the woman of the house who handles the checkbook and the credit card balances. whoops. besides a 7% plus mortgage rate, factor in a roughly 10% car loan, huge insurance costs plus up to 25 or 30% credit card rates. none of these borrowing costs baked into the consumer price index, but they are baked into the kitchen table affordability crisis. now, you can't take gdp to the store, but take-home pay, mortgage rates and a generally discouraged middle class suffering from an ongoing affordability crisis, it's going to be front and center at the cnn presidential debate next week. you can count on it, folks. thinking of counting on it, joining me right here, charlie hurt, "washington times "opinion

editor, fox news contributor, and katie pavlich, townhall.com editor and fox news contributor. katie, i know neither of you are housing experts -- [laughter] all right? >> to put it mildly. larry: but i thought i'd throw that in today. mostly because i'm tired of reporting about murders and rapes across the border. i'm quite serious about a this. i think this housing story needs to be ventilated, needs more air time because these numbers today were awful. worst prices in 30 years, high mortgage rates. kids can't afford a home, and if you -- if you're in a home, you have trouble paying a mortgage. what do you make of it? >> i would say anybody who goes to apply for a mortgage or anybody who is paying one who understands what the rate was under trump and what it is now, there's a lot of people who maybe couldn't afford it then, but they really can't afford it now because it increases your price and payment per month by shows -- by thousands of

dollars. i think people like that are more experts than anybody in the biden administration. when it comes to the debates, trump is talking about biden's incompetence which may be true, but i think more importantly he has to talk about how this administration is doing this to people on purpose. they are deliberately driving up prices, they are deliberately making it more difficult for you to have energy, your gas stove, for you to have the car that you want thatting actually afford through all of these regulations. so reminding everybody that the reason why things are not affordable, why you can't go to the store and get the same amount that you used to is because the policies that the biden administration has implemented at every single level are trickling down to make it so people in this country can't afford anything. and on the affordability issue for housing, young people -- larry: right, you read my mind. you see trump with large gains in the polls among young people. you hear this again and again, i can't afford to buy a house.

i'd like to have one, i can't afford one. wherever you live, they'd like to have one. and the other thing, trump's doing rather well with women. there was a big new york times story yesterday or the day before about that. most -- i don't want to get into trouble here, but -- [laughter] the woman of the house tends to have the checkbook. by the way, i haven't had a checkbook in 30 years -- >> your wife does not let you have a checkbook. larry: that's to exactly right. my saintly wife will not let me have a checkbook. with good reason, she's a smart if lady. the point is, they know how difficult the affordability rye sis is. they know about borrowing rates, mortgage rates, credit card rates, insurance rates,they know about taxes and prices. so this is a big thing. now, you tell me, trump's going to presumably talk about this. what's biden going to say? what is his defense going to be? >> well, he's going to try to argue against math, and math is pretty obvious. i think it's this basic math that has shown these numbers

with whether it's black voters or hispanic voters or even women voters, to me, the most shocking numbers that we've seen have been with young voters. you can't actually believe, it's almost like they must have the numbers wrong when you rook at the swing from joe biden to donald trump among these young voters. and i agree with you, i think it is probably massively -- it's driven by everything, but it has to be driven by this, the shock that young people in their 20s when they go out and try to buy housing. and nobody is better at sort of vilifying and making these things very clear to people than donald trump. he's very good. in fact, it gets him in trouble, he's so clear with some these things. but one of the things i wish he would point out is when you have millions of new people coming into the country and then the federal government is putting them up, housing them for free all over the country, you don't have to be larry kudlow to know that's going to drive up housing

prices. >> right. >> and so one of the biggest drivers of this, of the increase in housing costs are all of biden's illegal migrants that are that are being put up for free by the federal government. larry: trump occasionally makes that point. it's a very interesting point. trump is saying the enormous expenses of the open border and the migrants running through the interior of the country will at a some point cut into our whole entitlement system. >> right. it already is. larry: it's a crowding out in economic terms, but it's just dollars and cents terms. you look at this city, you're familiar with all the woes of this city. they can't afford anything. they are spending so much money, $12 billion plus, on being a sanctuary city which is not a cool thing. trump does make that point, probably should make it some more. >> well, the left has been trying to argue this illegal immigration issue is just about a compassion. trump has to make the economic argument. it undercuts everything, whether it's medical care system, the school system, public safety and

law enforcement. new york and other cities across the country are now taking money out of the budgets that american taxpayers pay for to give it to these projects for illegal immigrants and just to navigate this problem, the people who are paying the price are paying it with their dollars and cents. things are being stolen from them and reallocated to people who didn't come here the right way and are going to cost more. they also created these little mini economic environments where they cause a supply problem in places like texas, small towns. they'll go back to the baby formula crisis when there was a shortage of baby formula for everybody else in the country, but they had stockpiles of it -- larry: have they solved that? >> they haven't completely solved it -- larry: not completely, from what i gather. >> there's another example of how this does become an issue of a supply problem on a number of basis levels. larry: i want to move on. charlie, i've been saying -- saving this up for you all week. >> no pressure.

[laughter] larry: the bidens can cannot even overspend properly. [laughter] okay? if they can't even to this. so there's a great story. you may have seen this story, they've appropriated $42 billion for broadband, internet broadband expansion into rural areas and if poor areas. okay? which sounds like a noble mission, right in the trouble is there are so many dei and esg, woke requirements baked into it that they can't spend it. not a nickel of the $42 billion has been spent. now, hang on a second -- [laughter] dei, climate mandates and, my favorite, contractors must hire convicted felons in order to advance racial equity in order to get their money. is so there's $422 billion which, by the way -- $42 billioe outrage. nobody needs that much, it's already being done through satellites, but they don't have enough convicted felons -- of

course, they could come to new york. [laughter] grant to -- i don't want to go there. charlie, i thought of you, don't ask me why. >> welcome to the you taupe ya -- >> they can't even overspend properly. [laughter] >> literally. and i think that elon musk who is, whatever you think of him, is a free market guy and figures out how to do things with the free market, pointed out and i can't remember the exact figures, but i think it was that he could have hooked these people up with starlink -- larry: right. >> 120 million people or something like this for the amount of money x they would all be on lightning speed internet. larry: i mean, you couldn't -- we looked at this in the trump administration. you couldn't spend $40 billion on this. we budgeted it for $12 billion, i think, and didn't even want to do that a -- >> seems like i'm a fan of esg and dei now if it prevents the government from spending -- better than the buttigieg approach where they spend billions of dollars to put in seven electric vehicle chargers. larry: wait, that's coming later

in the show. [laughter] too good to be true. you've got to be a convicted felon in order to get the $42 billion. >> so trump could get it at least. that's good. larry: oh, god. thank you for sharing that. [laughter] actually, trump, hunter. we're saving a seat for joe. one more thing before we cash out in this segment. mr. trump, this is sound, i think, right? we have sound from trump talking to the silicon valley? yeah. here's trump on immigration helping kids, all the a brilliant people who can come to america. here's trump. >> what i want to do and what with i will do is you graduate from a college, i think you should get automatically as part of your diploma a green card to be able to stay in this country. you need brilliant people. larry: so i heard him say this, now, this is an old -- he's always had this view, but i heard him say this, refresh this view at, to the business round table of ceos that i moderated

with him last week. he's repeating it, and it's a very important point. on the one hand, tough on the border, close the border, remain in mexico, deportations, so forth, yes, yes, yes. but, katie, he softens it with this point of view. we want the smartest people to come here, assuming they're legit, and if you get a college diploma, we'll give you a green card. what do you think? >> well, i would hope there was some criteria for the kind of degrees you immediate to get. american citizenship is a very precious thing, and green card is essentially the first ticket to get there. so i think there should be a few requirements. if you're a women's studies major, maybe you won't be getting a green card here. larry: how about middle east studies? >> if you're helping out in other areas that are beneficial to the economy, maybe. larry: he had h -- added h-1b visas too. so the silicon valley people who are starting to pony up for him, they're happy about that.

>> there are legitimate problems with just a blanket thing, but he's smart enough that he, i think or or when he gets into the weeds he'll pick it apart. a gender studies major doesn't get a green card. but it also underscores the most important thing about this guy. he's not an idealogue. he's not some crazed washington guy. he's willing to entertain whatever makes sense, and that's why i would have a lot more faith in his ability to navigate this and come up with something sensible so we get people that help the country and stop getting -- larry: no, no, right. if he wins and he's going to come in and he's going to have, you know, deportation, he's going to try to deport people who are already here, criminal people, close the border, remain in mexico, all these things, this is part of his negotiation. that's what he likes to do. he is a negotiator. >> yeah. larry: and i think it's very effective, and i think people forget that about a him. >> and bewouldn't have the problem in the first place if the trump policies a had stayed in place. every single person who's been

murdered, raped, whatever by the migrants would not have happened if donald trump had been president. larry: yes, indeed. katie pavlich, charlie hurt -- >> thanks, larry. larry: love the suit. all right, folks, be sure to catch charlie guest hosting "the bottom line" tonight at 6 p.m. eastern, right here on fox business. coming up on "kudlow," why is china buying up all the farmland and, coincidentally, just happens to be near america's military bases? huh? how's that going to go down? we're going to talk about that with north dakota governor doug burgum right here on set on "kudlow." be right back. ♪ dad: i'm gonna clean the fence. daughter: it's a lot of fence. dad: you wanna help me? dad: aim at the wall, but get closer. daughter: (gasps) what the?! daughter: alright. dad: side to side. when you work with someone who knows a lot and cares even more... you can do this. ...you're unstoppable. (♪)

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right spot on this map. you've done something about it. but i just want to add a before you do, you know, when i was in the government, we had an issue with huawei, the chinese phone company, that was building these old-fashioned wood withen telephone polls -- wooden telephone polls, right? and they just happened to be building them near our bases with tiny, miniature cameras to do spying. is something like that going on today with this farmland story? >> well, i can't speak for the rest of the country because not everybody's been as successful as north dakota has in blocking this from happening, but, of course, we're a state where we've had for over a hundred years on the books anti-foreign farming laws. we're not related to each other. you have to be a family member to actually own and farm in our state. so no u.s. corporation can own farmland there, no foreign corporation and no foreign political party. that's always a been clear. we strengthened it with our -- larry: so even today there's no

chinese -- we thought we saw a red dot on this map -- >> well, there is, because that was a little misrepresentation. they did buy some land in an industrial park inside the city limits of grand forks, but we were successful in blocking that. our two senators, they were all on top of it. we had great local leadership that was making very cautiously going forward, making sure that there was no outlays. they actually got paid $2.5 million from this company that was interested in moving there. but the reason they were able -- and the thing that was the real failure here was the committee on foreign investment in the u.s., cfius, the local team calls cfius and says can you do a review, if these guys want to build a corn milling plant, is that going to be blocked by cfius? they came back and said, no. part of it, it goes up to the biden administration, goes back. you guys block the stuff you're doing on the telephone poles, got it done --

larry: we threw huawei out. >> this administration said, no problem, but it was with our two senators working with the air force and got a letter from the a air force, blocked it and stopped it. some state states might still be encouraging. i was in michigan yesterday, they're encouraging china to build a battery plant and giving them an incentive. but we need a national point this is why we've got to have president trump back in office. president trump, who's strong, he's the first one that understood that china was an issue. you were part of that administration. we were tough on china. and i think about, you know, what he's done whether it's tariffs or whether it's standing up to china on the border and on fentanyl, all of this just screams we've got to have president trump back in office. can you imagine joe biden trying to solve this problem? larry: maybe we can put that map back up. it's a really important map because you've got the china farmland purchases scattered across the country and with a very high correlation with our military bases, and some of these are nuclear-related

military bases as a well. so we'll keep that on the9 hot warmer. the other thing is, very interesting story, mckenzie and company did a survey. roughly half of americans -- no. roughly half of people who own electric vehicles, i want to get this right, half of those who who own electric vehicles want to get rid of them and buy gas-powered vehicles, okay? what do you make of that? the bidens want everybody to have evs in 10 years or whatever. 46% want to switch to gas cars, so the ev experiment didn't work. you're from a fossil producing state. what do you make of this. >> about a half the e very vehicles that had been purchased were purchased in counties in america that were predominantly blue counties. i think people are buying them because they're afraid to go to a cocktail party and say they didn't have an ev -- [laughter] larry: that could be part of the same -- >> we know they don't work, and

it's very simple. if you believe in liquid fuels, you're on team usa. if you believed in the ev, you're on team china. because you can't have an ev car industry in this country without buying batteries from china. they roll 85 of the rare earth minerals -- 85%. we fought if for 40 years to get out from under opec, and the climate extremists in the biden administration are saying hey, let's become dependent for our transportation future on china. it's a ridiculous thought marley when -- particularly when it's bad for our economy because it's driving inflation. i mean, all these subsidies that they have, the subsidies for ev cars if you total them up, it's over $90000 a ton of co2 that's deferred in north dakota. 900. we've got carbon-free ethanol for $855 a ton, carbon-free -- 85 a ton. if you want a zero carbon fuel, we're doing it for 10 to 15 times more efficiently with

innovation hand what biden is getting it done with regulation. and this is what donald trump understands. he cut so much regulation. innovation has always a been at the heart of american greatness. larry: march they allocated $8 billion. they were supposed to to build 500,000 chargers, okay? >> half a million, yeah. larry: they built 7. the bidens can't even spend their overspending. they can't even do their overregulation properly, that's how bad they are. i've got a good trump quote on liquid gold. let's roll the tape on trump, please. >> we have more liquid gold under our feet, i use the term, we have more oil, we have more wells, we have more everything than anybody else. when i started, we were number three, now we're number one -- we were number one. he's going to keep it that way until after the election. if they haven't won the electioe election, there's no more oil coming out. oil is what caused the inflation. you'd have nothing coming out.

it would be a disaster. larry: and i just want to add to that not only is it inflation, not only the issue people don't want jammed down their throats these electric vehicles, but we had your colleague, senator senator kevin cramer on last night. biden's political management of the strategic petroleum reserve, they knocked out about a third, almost 40% of it which we will desperately need in case of a war with china or russia, for example. okay? that is really compromising our entire military security. i mean, it's become a national security issue. and they're talking about another sale of strategic petroleum reserve to knock gasoline prices down a couple of pennies before the election and again jeopardize our security. >> well, biden's turning from the strategic national petroleum reserve9 into the biden personal political petroleum reserve for political purposes only. the big drawdown was before the

midterms. china's building up their petroleum reserve, we're draining ourselves. on the ev thing, the other thing, harry, which is impossibly bad policy, we're running out of electricity in this country. we're going to have a grid crisis. we did a study in north dakota released about three weeks ago. north dakota produces electricity that goes east and west. dozens of states dependent on our export of electricity, account and the biden administration is prematurely shutting down base load at the same time they're driving everyone has to have an ev gas stove. anybody who's watching notice electricity and air-conditioning at home, and guess what? in the summer of 2025 if we don't reverse what biden's doing, we're going to have biden brownouts and blackouts rolling across our country because the grid is becoming destabilized by their policies. and at the same time, we need more power than ever before to run our a.i. the a.i. armses race with china

we could lose because of biden's lick rick grids, and china's opening up a coal plant every two weeks to help them win the a.i. arm race. larry: katie pavlich, you just met her, she says you look like george washington. [laughter] you look just like washington. i don't know if we have a handy picture. she claimed -- katie's a very smart woman. and my only question is how long have you looked like george washington? [laughter] >> apparently about 10 seconds. this is news to me on that. larry: governor doug burgum, thank you ever so much, sir. >> thank you, larry. larry: all right, coming up, do deficits really matter? well, i reckon they do at some point anyway. we're going to ask the brilliant steve forbes. i think he does look a bit like george washington, you know? ♪ ♪

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really matter? we used to have debates about this years ago. some people said they didn't, some people said they do. let's talk to steve forbes, founder and editor-in-chief of "forbes" media. his book on inflation is out in paper, i'm just going to hold it up, he was kind enough the sign it over to me. welcome, steve. as you recall, many of us down through the years on the supply side, growth side, deaf deficits don't really matter, but we've never seen anything quite like this, $2 trillion deficits as far as the eye see, over $50 trillion in total debt. what do you think about this debate? >> well, when it was 1 or 2% of gdp and you had spending under control, you could cope with it. but today spending is out of control, as you know, as a percentage of gdp it's gone to 24, 25%, almost wartime levels. and then with the spending, they want to raise taxes as well. so a deaf it -- deficit, how do you finance the deficit? under reagan and trump, thanks to you, it was done by growth.

after world war ii, it was largely done by growth. we reduced the deficit from 12000% of gd -- 120% of gdp down to 25. it does matter. it takes resources from the economy. government doesn't create resources, people do. when you take those resources, put them in the hands of bureaucrats rather than people and entrepreneurs, guess what happens? you get the kind of stagnation you have in off, and that's not good for us or the free world. larry: and we've really never seen, as you say, we've never seen peacetime or non-depression time deficits of this magnitude or borrowing. the treasury's going to have to borrow a lot. it's going to put a lot of pressure on the fed. i just want to -- people are quite calm and sanguine right now, the stock market and the bond market. you think that can last. in other words, if we continue along this path and i don't know what the precise timing is, but unless something changes, you know, are we headed for

difficulties? are we headed for a lot of uncertainty? are we a headed for a financial crack-up? >> the answer is very, very possible. one, you have -- which we can't control or predict -- you could have a real blow-up in the world. chinese or iranian aggression, who knows where that's going to lead? but the u.s., borrowing, already you've had a couple of hiccups in the auction markets. and the thing is those concerns about the masses of the world, where are getting the money for those deficits? not getting it here at home, we're also getting it from overseas. we're taking it from developing countries. we're absorbing this can capital here for wasteful spending especially evs and the like. you hit that. so, yes. the markets are going to tell us, they're going to have to pay for. one -- pay more. the treasury's borrowing short term which hurts small businesses. they should be buying more long-term bonds and not putting the crush on lending with small businesses. larry: no, i mean, it's wasteful. it's the most expensive stuff they're selling short term. last point, the dollar.

how does this fiscal meltdown of sorts affect the u.s. dollar? >> well, it undermines confidence not only in the dollar, but in other currencies around the world. now, the dollar's not going to be relaced -- replaced, it's just going to be the least bad in a rotten world. when you have these deficits, especially if the democrats win and they start the doing these ca crazy taxes and the like, guess what that's going to do? low growth. harder times to finance those deficits, but the low growth is going to mean pressure for more spending, so you're going to death spiral where you're going to get the fed buying bonds again. larry: tough stuff. i tend to think you're right. >> that's why we've got to win this election. larry: bingo. steve forbes, the best of the best. all right, now, turn to next week's cnn presidential debate. what should president trump say on thursday night? we're going to get some person if opinion. florida congressman byron donalds and cory mills. gentlemen, thank you very much

for doing this. let me begin with you, byron. where do you want to see mr. trump's emphasis on the debate? >> larry, good to be with you. the emphasis needs to be this crushing inflation joe biden unleashed, the terror at the southern border that joe biden unleashed, the foreign policy disasters that joe biden unleashed. you're getting the theme, larry. joe biden has been a disaster for america. and when donald trump was president, when he was president, the country was in a far better place. that's the theme, that needs to be the direction. larry: you know, just on that point, cory, we were talking earlier in the show about kitchen table issues, as a byron referred to. but you know one that we shouldn't -- that should not be neglected is housing. ing we had numbers out today, existing home sales the worst in 30 years, prices the highest on record with mortgage rate rates also twice what a they were during the trump years. young people can't aboard to buy a home.

they're very depressed about that. so it's a kitchen table issue, but the kitchen table issue is inside a house that people can't afford, cory, and i think somebody's got to -- mr. trump's got to push that right along as best he can. >> you're exactly right. look, the bottom line is the american dream is no longer affordable, and as a byron was just talking about, if you look at a recent gallup polls, 41 of americans are concerned with what? economy and inflation. that's a vast difference from the 2008 housing crash where it was only 18%. now you've got 11 plus million people who have come across our borders, they're looking at amnesty, looking at trying to buy them to make them americans to buy the secondary presidency, and they don't want to address the issue that the american middle class is being completely eliminated for the elitist and for the criminal migrants crossing our borders. we were in a very good position, and this is where we go back to our reagan question, were you

better four years ago than today? we've seen four years under president trump, four years under the failed biden administration. my colleague talked about foreign policy. look, no one knows more about biden's foreign policies. whenever i had to go to afghanistan, israel and haiti to rescue americans because of the pattern of abandonment this administration has put forward. bottom line, we need president trump back in the white house. hah march byron, i know you talk to president trump quite a bit. how do you want him to handle the border issue, the border issue and immigration in general? what kinds of things have you talked about? i mean, i don't want you to give away state secrets, but in general, this is going to come up. it's gown going to be a big -- going to be a big part of the presidential debate. what would you advise him, byron donalds? >> my advice would be simple. i would look at joe and say, joe, if you had just kept my policies instead of being dumb, the country would be safe. you wouldn't have had what

happened to rachel morin, laken riley and so many americans who have been victimized by these criminal aliens. joe, you broke the border. i gave you a great border, and you broke it. so i have to come back and clean up after you. i think that's the way that you've got to take that message to joe biden and to the democrats. larry: all right, gentlemen, thank you. i wish we had more time. we never have enough time. i appreciate you very much. byron donald z, thank you very much. ly mills, ditto. good advice all a around. all right, folks, coming up, did the supreme court just pave the way for a tax on unrealized capital gains? that's a really bad idea, very disappointing decision. we will ask scholar, constitutional scholar jonathan turley in just a few moments. please stick around, i'm kudlow. ♪ if. ♪

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editorial, a supreme court mistake on wealth taxes. it's around realizations, but you tell me, was this a mistake in. >> well, i think that many people believe that this opinion does pave the way for a wealth tax. i am not convinced of that. the kavanaugh-roberts decision with the liberal justices was the most worrisome for those of us who have opposed a wealth tax. i believe it's unconstitutional. this is being pushed by senator warren and also by the biden administration. it goes against the language and intent of the constitution. we had to amend the constitution to allow for an income tax, but it only allowed for an income tax. the rest has to be apportioned across the states. now, even with kavanaugh's decision there's language in there that's going to make it more difficult to have a wealth tax. first of all, he dropped a footnote saying we're not saying

that a wealth tax is constitutional, but also in his language he goes through the history and says, you know, this language was meant to make this difficult, that you can't treat all property like income taxes. four of the justices signed on to even stronger language. so i think when you look at them together, i think the language overall is reassuringly negative for a wealth tax. so if anything, i would think that it makes it more difficult. larry: but, jonathan, the other issue related to this -- okay, should we tax wealth or million and so forth, whether it's realized or unrealized, now, that comes out -- i mean, i'm just reading "the wall street journal" editorial. you are the scholar, i certainly am a not. but there is a debate about, i mean, can you tax unrealized capital gains? can you tax unrealized anything? >> right. i share that view. i think it is problematic.

this is certainly the road that warren and others want to go down. they want to get away from income and start to tax unrealized gains as well as wealth in general. and, frankly, that effort is practically a bit loony. i mean, i don't even see how the irs would be able to do this. elizabeth warren has talked about taxing boats and paintings. could you imagine if the irs had to go through and value everything that you own? they've tried also to portray this as we're just going to apply this to billionaires, but this is tax authority. it's like a gas in a closed space. if you expand the space, the gas will fill it evenly, and that's what a will happen if the supreme court allows it. so there was a lot of concern, there still is, that the decision of the court expands the tax authority a bit with. but once again when you get into the weeds on those opinions and you count the number of justices, it seems to me you got

a majority there that would not look kindly on an actual wealth tax. when it comes to unrealized gains, i think they would look to roberts and kavanaugh again. those are the sort of sticky points for those of us who believe that they're moving away from the language of the constitution. larry: i mean, you know, income is, income is different than capital. it's different in economic terms. >> that's right. larry: income is a flow. it's what you earn, okay? it's what the 16th amendment was all about. and i think the it was pretty clear. it has to be proportionate -- wealth is the stock the of your gain. that's a different matter altogether. and the valuation of that stock of your gain, the only way you can value that, jonathan, is a market transaction which means it has to be realized. you can't possibly value something like capital without a market transaction. it can't be done. no one knows the right answer.

>> no, i think that's absolutely true. i think that it's logistically a nightmare. i think it's constitutionally flawed. but in part, there's a really insidious game being played here. they're trying to convince taxpayers this is just about a tapping a bunch of billionaires -- larry: yeah. >> hiding the fact that once you cross that rubicon, any wealth, any of these investments could be tapped for anyone. larry: i think that's right. jonathan, just in the last 30, 40 seconds or so, judge cannon down in south florida examining whether jack smith has the authority to be the special prosecutor. we haven't heard anything out of that. they had a hearing, i think, starting today. what do you make of that? >> well, you know, this is a really interesting legal question. the odds are against the trump team. but, you know, we have a constitution that a says that you need to get a nomination of the president, confirmed by the senate to be a u.s. attorney, and then suddenly you have an

attorney general that says we can appoint anyone with even greater powers. that it's an issue. larry: yeah. we'll see how that one turns out. anyway, no unrealized capital gains. jonathan turley, thank you ever so much. we appreciate your wisdom. folks, i'll be right back. visit morethannormalaging.com if you have this... and you get this...

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