>> it's go time in atlanta. president biden is former president donald trump about to hit the debate stage.

it is their first faceoff as we mentioned in four years. aive toll moment in the race for the -- a pivotal moment in the race for the president seizure disorders. >> we'll watch this entire thing together and all of us on the panel and sean hannity in atlanta and stay with us beginning to end on fox news and afterwards we'll have post debate analysis and sean will take over at 11:00 eastern. you know, it'll be fascinating to watch this and, you know, you can just sort of hear their hearts palpitating probably from both sides of the stage at this point. >> both men walking out and facing each other for the first time in four years and they've talked past each other and ads have run and campaigns hurled insults and the two men are on the stage and the white house is on the line. >> see if there's a handshake here and watch this right now. dana: good evening, i'm dana

bash. an correspondent of cnn inside politics and coanchor state of the union. jake: i'm jake tapper and dana and i will co-moderate and our job is to facilitate a debate between the two candidates tonight. before we introduce them, we want to share the rules of the debate with the audience at home. former president trump will be on the left side of the screen. president biden will be appearing on the right. a coin toss determined their positions. each candidate will have two minutes to answer a question and one minute each for responses and rebuttals. additional minute for follow-up clarification or response is at the moderator's discretion. dana: when it's time for a candidate to speak, his microphone will be turned on and his opponent's microphone will be turned off. should a candidate interrupt when his microphone is muted, he'll be difficult to understand for viewers at home. each candidate will get two

minutes for closing statements at the end. there's no studio audience tonight. pre-written notes, props, or contact with campaign staff are not permitted during the debate. by accepting our invitation to debate, both candidates and their campaigns agreed to accept these rules. jake: now, please welcome the 46th president of the united states, joe biden. and please welcome the 45th president of the united states, donald trump. gentlemen, thanks so much for being here. let's begin the debate and start with the issue that voters consistently say is their top concern: the economy. president biden, inflation has slowed, but prices remain high.

since you took office, the price of essentials has increased. for example, a basket of groceries that cost $100 then now costs more than $120. and typical home prices have jumped more than 30%. what do you say to voters that feel they are worse off under your presidency than they were under president trump? >> you have to take a look at what i was left with when i became president, what mr. trump left me. we had a economy in the free fall and pandemic was so badly handled and many people were dying and all he said was it's not that serious. inject a little bleach in your arm and you'll be all right. the economy collapsed and there were no jobs. unemployment rate rose to 15%. it was terrible. and so what we had to do was try to put things back together again. that's exactly what we began to do. we created 15,000 new jobs, we brought out a position where we have 800,000 new manufacturing jobs, but there's more to be done. more to be done. working class people are still

in trouble. i come from scranton, pennsylvania, i come where the kitchen table and things weren't able to be met during the month is a problem. price of eggs, price of gas, price of whole range of things and that's why i'm working to hard to make sure i deal with those problems and we make sure to reduce the price of housing. we'll make sure we build 2 million new units and make sure we cap rents so corporate greed can't take over. the combination i was left with and corporate greed is the reason we're in this problem right now. in addition to that, we're in a situation where if you had to look at all that was done in his administration, he didn't do much at all. by the time he left, things were in chaos. literally chaos. so we put things back together and created jobs and made sure we got a situation where we now brought down the price of prescription drugs, which is a major issue for many people. $15 for inulin shot as opposed to $400. no senior has to pay nor than

$200 for any drug, all the drugs they need beginning next year. in a situation that we're going to make available to everybody, to all americans. so we're working to bring down the price of around the kitchen table and that's what we're going to get done. jake: thank you, president trump. >> we had the greatest economy in the history of our country. we have never done so well. everybody was amazed by it. other countries were copying us. we got hit with covid, and when we did we spent the money necessary so we wouldn't end up in a great depression the likes of which we had in 1929. by the time we finished, we did a great job and got a lot of credit for the economy and the military and no wars and so many other things. everything was rocking good but the thing we never got credit for and should have was getting us out of that covid mess. he created mandates that was a disaster for our country, but other than that, we had given them back a country where the stock market actually was higher

than pre-covid and nobody thought that was even possible. the only jobs he created are for illegal immigrants and bounce back jobs, or bounce back from covid. he's not done a good job, he's done a poor job and inflation is killing our country. absolutely killing us. jake: thank you, president biden. >> well, look, the greatest economy in the world. he's the only one that thinks that i think. i don't know anybody else that thinks it was the greatest economy in the world. the fact of the matter is that we pride ourselves on the situation where his economy, he rewarded the wealthy. had the largest tax cut in american history, $2 trillion and raised deficit larger than any one president in one term. he's the only president other than herbert hoover that lost more jobs than when he began since herbert hoover much the idea that he did something that was significant and the military, you know, when he was president, they were still killing people in afghanistan. he didn't do anything about that. when he was president, we were still finding ourselves in a position where you had a notion

that we were this safe country. truth is, i'm the only president this century that doesn't have any -- this decade, that doesn't have any troops dying anywhere in the world like he did. jake: president trump, i want to follow up if i can. you want to -- >> will i get to respond to him? jake: i'll give you a follow up. you want to impose a 10% tariff on all goods coming to the u.s.. how will you ensure that that doesn't drive prices even higher? >> not going to drive them higher but cause countries ripping us off for years that i can chai and that many others in all natural rights approachness to china, force them to pay us a lot of money and reduce deficit and give us power for other things, but he made a statement only thing he was right about is i gave you the largest tax cut in history. i also gave you the largest regulation cut in history. that's why we had all the jobs. and the jobs went down and bounced back. he's taking credit card for bounce-back jobs. can't do that. he also said he inherited 9%

inpolice station. no, he in-- inflation. he inherited almost no inflation and stay that had way for 14 months then it blew up under his leadership because they spent money like a bunch of people that didn't know what they were doing, and they don't know what they were doing. probably the worst administration in history. there's never been as far as afghanistan is concerned, i was getting out of after gang stan but with -- afghanistan but with didignity and power and he got t for the most embarrassing day in the history of our life. jake: under both of your administrations over the last eight years, national debt soared to record highs and according to new nonpartisan analysis, president trump, your administration approved $8.4 trillion and so far president biden you've approved $4.3 trillion in new debt. former president trump, many tax cuts that you signed into law are set to expire next year. want to extend and go even further you say. with the u.s. facing trillion dollar deficits and record debt,

why should top earners and corporations pay even less in taxes than they do now? >> because the tax cuts spurred the greatest economy that we've ever seen prior to covid and even after covid, it was so strong that we were able to get through covid much better than just about any other country. we spurred that tax spurred -- now, when we cut the taxes for example the corporate tax was cut down to 21% from 39% plus beyond that, we took in more revenue with much less tax and companies were bringing bactrims of dollars back into our country. the -- bringing back trillions into our country and the country was going like never before and ready to start paying down debt and using liquid gold under our feet, oil and gas under our feet. we were going to have something that nobody especially has had. we got hit with covid, we did a lot to fix it. i gave him an unbelievable situation with all of the therapeutics and all of the things that we came up with, we gave him something great. remember, more people died under

his administration even though we had largely fixed it, more people died under his administration than our administration, and we were right in the middle of it. something a lot of people don't like to talk about. he had for mar people dying in his administration. he did the mandate, which is a disaster, mandating it. the vaccine went out and did a mandate on the vaccine, which is the thing that people most objected to about the vaccine. he did a very poor job, just a very poor job. i will tell you, not only poor there but throughout the entire world we're no longer respected as a country. they don't respect our leadership, they don't respect the united states anymore. we're like a third world nation between weaponization of his election trying to go after his political opponent. all of the things he's done, we've become like a thirled world nation and it's a shame. the damage he's done to our country and i'd love to ask him and will why he allowed millions of people to come in here from prisons, jails, and mental institutions to come into our country and destroy our country.

jake: president trump, we will get to immigration later in this block. president biden, i want to give you a opportunity to respond to the question about the national debt. >> he had the largest national debt of any president in a four year period. number two, $2 trillion tax cut benefited the very wealthy. i'm going to fix the taxes and we have a thousand trillion natural rights approaches in mesh -- i mean billionaire in america and they're in a situation where they pay 8.2% in taxes. if they just paid 24%, 25%, either one of those numbers, they'd raise $50 million or billion i should say in a ten year period. we'd be able to wipe out his debt, help make sure that all those things we need to do, child care, elder care, making sure that we continue to strengthen our healthcare system. making sure that we're able to make every single solitary personnel jill for what i've been able to do with the covid d

covid -- excuse me, dealing with everything we have to do with -- look if we finally beat medicar- jake: thank you, president biden. president trump. >> he beat medicaid and beat it to death and he's destroying medicare and all of these people are coming in and putting them on medicare and putting them on social security, they're going to destroy social security. this man will single handedly destroy social security and these millions and millions of people coming in and they're trying to put them on social security. he will wipe out social security, he'll wipe out medicare and he was right in the way he finished that sentence and it's a shame. what's happened to our country in the last four years is not to be believed. foreign countries i'm friends with a lot of people, they cannot believe what happened to the united states of america, we're no longer respected and they don't like us, we've give them everything they want and they think we're stupid.

they think we're very stupid people. what we're doing for other countries and they do nothing for us, what this man has done is absolutely criminal. jake: thank you, president trump. dana. dana: this is the first presidential election since the supreme court overturned roe v wade. this morning, the court ruled on yet another abortion case, temporarily allowing emergency abortions to continue in idaho despite that state's restrictive ban. former president trump, you take credit for the decision to overturn roe v wade, which returned the issue of abortion to the states. >> correct. dana: however, the federal government still plays a role in whether or not women have access to abortion pills. they're used in about two-thirds of all abortions. as president, would you block abortion medication? >> first out of all, the supreme court approved the abortion pill, and i agree with their decision to have done that. i will not block it.

if you look at this whole question that you're asking, complex but not really complex. 51 years ago, you had roe v. wade and everybody wanted to get it back to the states, everybody. without exception. democrats, republicans, liberals, conservatives. everybody wanted it back, religious leaders and i put three great supreme court justices on the court and happened to vote in favor of killing roe v. wade and moving it back to the states. this is something that everybody wanted. now, ten years ago or so they started talking about how many weeks and how many this and getting into other things, but every legal scholar throughout the world, the most respected wanted it brought back to the states. i did that. now the states are working it out. if you look at idaho, it was a decision that was end result that was a little bit more liberal that be you would have thought. kansas i would say the same thing. texas is different, florida is different. but they're all making their own decisions right now, and right

now the states control it. that's the vote of the people. like ronald reagan, i believe in the exceptions. i am a person that believes, and frankly i think it's important to believe in the pensions. some people you have to follow your heart. some people don't believe in that, but i believe in the exceptions for rape, incest, and the life of the mother. i think it's very important. some people don't. follow your heart, but you have to get elected also and that has to do with other things. got to get elected. the problem they have is they're radical because they will take the life of a child in the eighth month and ninth month and even after birth. after birth if you look at the former governor of virginia, he was willing to do this. he said we'll put the baby aside, and we'll determine what we do with the baby meaning we'll kill the baby. what happens is we brought it back to the states and the country is now coming together on this issue. it's been a great thing. dana: thank you. president biden? >> it's been a terrible thing what you've done. the fact is that vast majority

of counselors and scholars supported roe when it was decided. supported roe. that's this idea they're all against it is ridiculous and this is the guy that says the state should be able to have it. we're not the state. we're in six weeks and don't know if you're pregnant or not and can't see a doctor and have him decide on what your circumstances are whether you need help. the idea that states are able to do this is like saying we're going to turn civil rights back to the states. each state have a different role. so many young women have been including a young women that was just murdered and he went to the funeral and the idea that she was murdered by an immigrant coming in. talk about that but here's the deal, there's a lot of young women being raped by their in-laws and spouses. brothers and sisters. by -- that's just ridiculous and can do nothing about it and try to arrest them when they cross state line.

dana: thank you. >> there's been many young women murdered by the same people he allows to come across our border. we have a border that's the most dangerous place anywhere in the world, consider the most dangerous place anywhere in the world, and he opened it up and these kill herreras are coming into our -- killers are coming into our country and raping and killing women. it's a terrible thing. as far as abortion is concerned, it's now back with the states and the states are voting. in many cases it's frankly a very liberal decision in my cases it's the opposite. but they're voting and bringing it back to the vote of the people, which is what everybody wanted, including the founders if they knew about this issue, which frankly they didn't. but they would have wanted -- everybody want it had brought back, ronald reagan wanted it brought back. he wasn't able to get it. everybody want it had brought back, and many presidents had tried to get it back. i was the one to do it and again, this gives it the vote of the people, and that's where they wanted it. every legal scholar wanted it that way. dana: staying on the topic of

abortion, president biden, seven states -- i'll let you do that. this is the same topic, seven states have no legal restrictions on how far into a pregnancy a woman can obtain an abortion. do you support any legal limits on how late a woman should be able to terminate a pregnancy? >> i supported roe v. wade, which had three trimesters. first time was between the woman and dr. second time is between the doctor and an extreme situation. the third time is between the doctor -- i mean between the woman and the state. the idea that the politicians and the founders want the politicians to be the ones making decisions about woman's health is ridiculous. that's the last -- no politician should be making that decision a. doctor should be making those decision. that's how it should be run. that's what you're going to do and if i'm elected, i'm going to restore roe v. wade. >> that means he can take the life of the baby in the ninth month and even after birth because some states, democrat

run, take it after birth. again, the former governor of virginia put the baby down and then we decide what to do with it. he's willing to as we say rip the baby out of the womb in the ninth month and kill the baby? nobody wants that to happen, democrat or republican. nobody wants it to happen. >> you're lying, that is simply not true. roe v. wade does not provide for that. that's not the circumstance. only the woman's life in danger and going to die. that's the only circumstance when that's going to happen. we are not for late term abortion period, period, period. >> under row v. wade you have late term abortion and can do whatever you want depending on the state and do whatever you want. we don't think that's a good thing. we think it's a radford dallas cowboys thing and think the -- radical thing and think the democrats are the radicals, not republicans. >> for 51 years that was the law. 51 years it was the right way to go and taken away because this guy put very conservative members on the supreme court and takes credit for taking it away.

what's he going to do if the hmaga republicans gets elected and they control the congress and they pass a universal ban on abortion, period. across the board at six weeks or seven or eight or ten. something very, very conservative? is he going to sign that bill? i'll veto it. he'll sign it. dana: thank you. jake: the issue of immigration and border security. president biden, a record number of migrants illegally crossed the southern border on your watch. overwhelming border states and overburdening cities like new york and chicago and in some cases causing real safety and security concerns. given that, why should voters trust you to solve the crisis? >> we worked very hard to get a bipartisan agreement that not only changed all that, it made sure that we were in a situation where you had no circumstance where they could come across the border with the number of reported now. we seek to significantly decrease the number -- by the way, the border parole endorsed

me and my position. in addition to that, we find ourselves in a situation when he was president, he was taking separating babies from mothers and putting them in cages and making sure they were separated from families. that's not the right way to go. what i've done since i've changed the law, what's happened? i changed it in a way that now you're in a situation where there are 40% fewer people coming across illegally and better than when he left office and i'll continue to move it till we get the total ban on the total initiative relative to what we'll do with more border patrol and more asylum officers. >> i really don't know what he said at the ebbed of that sentence and i don't think he know what is he said either. we had the safest border in the history. all he had to do was leave it. he decided to open up the border and open upous country to people that are -- up our country to people that are from prison prid

mental institutions and insane asylum and terrorists. there's the largest number of terrorist coming into the country right now and terrorists all over the world and not just in south america but all over from the middle east every and all over the world they're pouring in. this guy just left it open. he didn't need legislation because i didn't have legislation. i said close the border. we had the safest border in history in that final couple of months of my presidency, we had according to border patrol who is great. by the way that endorsed me for president but i won't say that, but they endorsed me for president. brandon, just speak to him. look, we had the safest border in history, now we have the worst border in history. there's never been anything like it, and people are dying all over the place, including the people that are coming up in caravans. jake: president biden. >> only terrorist that's done anything crossing the border is one that came along and killed al-qaida in his administration killed three american soldiers.

killed three american soldiers. that's the only terrorist. i'm not saying no known terrorist got through but the idea they're emptying their prisons and we're welcoming these people. that's not true and there's no data to support that . he's exaggerating and lying. jake: president trump, staying on the topic officious grace, you'll carry out largest domestic deportation in american history. will you deport every undocumented immigrant in american including those that have job jobs and those whose spouses are citizens and lived here for decades and how will you do it? >> just one second, said we killed three people. the people we killed are al baghdad dee and soleimani and they were the biggest terrorists in the world and huge impact on everything and not just border. on everything. he's the one that killed people with a bad border including hundreds of thousands of people dying and also killing our citizens when they come in.

we are living right now in a rats nest and they're killing our people in new york, california, and every state in the union because we don't have boarders anymore. every state is now a border. because of his ridiculous, insane and very stupid policies, people are coming in and they're killing our citizens at a level we've never seek. we call is migrant crime. i call it biden migrant crime. they're killing our citizens at a level we've never seen before, and you're reading it like these three incredible young girls over the last few days. one i spoke to the mother and had the funeral for this young girl, 12 years old. this is horrible what's taken place. what's taken place in our country, we're literally an uncivilized country now. he doesn't want it to be, he just dent know. he opened the borders and nobody ever seen anything like this and we have to get a lot of them out and get them out fast. they're going to destroy our country. just take a look at where they're living.

they're living in luxury hotels in new york city and other places. our veterans are on the street and dying because he doesn't care about our veterans and doesn't like the military or care about the veterans. i had the highest approval ratings for veterans taking care of the va. he has the worst and got rid of all the things i approved and got through congress. all the different things i approved, they abandoned. we had by far the highest and now it's down in less than half because he's done all these great things that we did, and i think he did state queens just because i approve -- it just because i approved and he's killed so many on the border by allowing all these people coming in and it's a sad day in america. jake: president biden, you have the mic. >> every single thing he said it a lie. protection, veterans are a hell of a lot better off since i passed the pact act and 1 million have it and their families and what happened whether it was agent orange or

burn pits and they're all being covered now and his group opposed that. we're also in a situation where we have great respect for veterans. my son spent a year in iraq living next to one of the burn pits and came back with stage 4 glee yo blastoma and i was in france for d-day and spoke about all the heros that died and went to world war ii cemetery -- world war i cemetery and standing with the four star general and told me, i don't want to go in there because there's a bunch of losers and suckers. my son was not a loser and not a circumstance. you're the sucker. you're the loser. jake: president trump. >> first of all, that was a made up quote. suckers and losers, they made it up and it was in a third rate magazine failing like many. he made thaw and put it in commercials. we've notified them and 19 people saying i didn't say that. who would say, i'm at a cemetery and taking about the veterans. nobody is taking better care and

i'm glad he brought it up and there's nobody that's taken better care of our soldiers than i have. to think i would in front of generals and others say suckers and losers. we have 19 people that said it was never said by me. it was made up by him. just like russia, russia, russia was made up. just like the 51 intelligence agents are made up. just like the new thing with the 16 economists are talking. same thing. 51 intelligence agents said that the laptop was russia disinformation. it wasn't. that came from his son hunter. it wasn't russia disinformation. he made up the suckers and losers so he should apologize to me right now. >> four star general standing on your side on your staff said you said it, period. that's number one. and number two, the idea, the idea that i have to apologize to you for anything along the lines. we've done more for veterans than any president in american history. american history, and now and their families and only sacred

obligation is the country is to care for the veteran when is they come home and their families and equip them when they go to war. that's what we're doing and that's what the va is doing now. they're doing more for veterans than ever before in our history. jake: thank you so much. dana: move to the topic of foreign policy. i want to begin with russia's war against ukraine, which is now in its third year. former president trump, russian president vladamir putin says he'll only end this war if russia keeps the ukrainian territory it has already claimed, and ukraine abandons its bid to join nato. are putin's terms acceptable to you? >> first of all, our veterans and our soldiers can't stabbed d this guy. they can't stand him. they think he's the worst commander in chief, if that's what you call him, that we've ever had. they can't stand him. let's get that straight and they like me more than just about any of them. that's based on every single bit of information. as far as russia and ukraine, if

we had a real president and a president that was respected by putin, he would have never invaded ukraine. a lot of people are dead right now. much more than people know. you know they talk about numbers. double those numbers and maybe triple them. he did nothing to stop it. in fact, i think he encouraged russia from going in. i tell you what happened, he was so bad from afghanistan, it was a horrible embarrassment, most embarrassing moment in the history of our country that when putin watch that had and saw the incompetence, he should have fired those generals like i fired the one you mentioned and he's got no love lost but should have fired those generals. no general got fired for the most embarrassing moment in the history of our country, afghanistan where we left billions of dollars of equipment behind, we lost 13 beautiful soldiers and 38 soldiers were obliterated and left people behind too. american citizens were left behind. putin saw that and said i think we'll go in and maybe take my --

this was his dream. i talked to him about it. his dream. the difference is he never would have invaded ukraine. never just like israel would have never been invaded in a million years by hamas. you know why? because iran was broke with me. i wouldn't let anybody do business with him. they ran out of money and broke and no money for hamas, no money for anything. no money for terror. there was no terror at all during my administration. this place, the whole world is blowing up under him. dana: president biden? >> never heard so much garbage in my life. take the last place first. iran attacked american troops and killed -- caused brain damage for a number of these troops and he did nothing about it. recent -- when he was president. they attacked and he said they're just having headaches. that's all it is. he didn't do a thing when they attacked. number one.

number two, we got about over 100,000 americans and others out of afghanistan during that air lift. number three, found ours in a situation where if you take a look at what trump did in ukraine, this guy told ukraine, told trump, do whatever you want. do whatever you want. that's what trump did to putin, encouraged him. do whatever want. he said we'll take kyiv in five days, remember, because it's part of the old soviet union and he wanted to reestablish that. kyiv, and he in fact didn't do it at all. he didn't win naval and get it done and they lost thousands and thousands of troops, 500,000 troops. dana: thank you. president trump, back to you for one minute. i just want to go back to my original question, which is are putin's terms acceptable to you? keeping the territory in crew crane? >> no, they're not acceptable. no, they're not acceptable but look, this is a war that never

should have started and if we many a lyddane this war, he led everybody alon and given $200 billion or more to ukraine. he's given $200 billion, that's a lot of money. i don't think there's ever been anything like it. any time zelensky comes to this country, he walks away with $60 billion. he's the greatest salesman ever. i'm not knocking him or anything but i'm saying the money we're spending on this war, and we shouldn't be spending. it should have never happened. i will have that war settled between putin and zelensky as president elect before i take office on january 20th, i'll have that war settled. people being killed so needlessly and stupidly, and i will get it settled and i'll get it settled fast before i take office. dana: president biden, you have one minute. >> the fact is putin is a war criminal and he's killed thousands and thousands of people. and he has made one thing clear, he wants to reestablish what was part of the soviet empire, not

just a piece, he wants all of ukraine. that's what he wants. then you think he'll stop there? do you think he'll stop when he -- if he takes ukraine? what happens to poland and belarus and the nato countries? if you want a war u you got to find out what he's going to do because if in fact he does what he says and walks away, by the way, all that money we give ukraine for weapons we make here in the united states, we give them the weapons, not the money at this point. and our nato allies produced as much funding for ukraine as we have. that's why we're strong. dana: thank you. moving on to the middle east, in october, hamas attacked israel killing more than a thousand people and taking hundreds of hostages. among those held and thought to still be alive are five americans. israel's response has killed thousands of palestinians and created a humanitarian crisis in gaza. president biden, you've put

forward a proposal to resolve this conflict, but so far hamas has not released the remaining hostages and israel is continuing its military offensive in gaza. what additional leverage will you use to get hamas and israel to end the war? you have two minutes. >> number one, everyone from united nations security council straight through to the g7 to the israelis and netanyahu himself endorsed the plan i put forward. endorsed the plan i put forward, which has three stages to it. first stage is trade the hostages for a ceasefire. second phase is a ceasefire with additional conditions and third phase is the end of the war. only one that wants the war to continue is hamas. we're still pushing hard from -- to get them to accept. in the meantime, what's happened? in israel we're finding the only thing i've denied israel was

2,000-pound bombs. they don't work well in populated areas and kill a lot of innocent people. we provided israel with all the weapons they need when they need them. by the way, i'm the guy that organized the world against iran when they had a full blown ballistic missile attack on israel. no one was hurt. no one in israel was accidently killed, and it stopped. we saved israel. we are the biggest producer of support for israel of anyone in the world. so there's two different things. hamas cannot be allowed to continue. we continue to send our experts and intelligence people for how to get hamas like we did bin laden. you don't have to do it and by the way, they've greatly weakened hamas. great weakened and they should be. they should be eliminated, but you've got to be careful using person weapons among population centers. >> going back to ukraine for one second. we have an ocean separating us.

the european nations together have spent $100 billion or maybe more than that, less than us. why doesn't he call them and say put up your money like i did with nato? i got them to put up hundreds of billions and secretary general of nato said trump did the most incredible job i've seek. they were going out of business. we were spending almost 100% of the money paid by us. he didn't do that. he's getting all -- you got to ask these people to put up the money. we're over $100 billion more spent and it has a bigger impact on them because of location because we have an ocean in between. you got to ask them. as far as israel and hamas, israel is the one that wants to go. only one that wants to keep going is hamas. actually, israel is the one and let them go and let them finish the job. he doesn't want to do it. he's become like a palestinian but they don't like him because he's a very bad palestinian. he's a weak one. dana: president biden, you have

a minnesota. >> never heard so much foolishness. this is a guy that wanted to get out of nato. pull out of nato? our strength lies in alliances as well. maybe a big ocean but we have not been able to avoid a war in europe? what happens if in fact you have putin continue to go into nato? we have an article 5 agreement. attack on one is attack on all. you want to start the nuclear war he keeps talking about, go ahead. let putin go in and control ukraine and then move onto poland and other places. see what happens then. he has no idea what the hell he's talking about. by the way, i got 50 other nationnations around the world o support ukraine including japan and south korea because they understand that this kind of dislocation has a serious threat to the whole world peace. no major war in europe has been able to be contained just to europe. dana: president trump, just a follow up, would you support the creation of independent

palestinian state in order to achieve peace in the region? >> i would have to see but before we do that, the problem we have is that we spend all the money so they kill us in trade. made great trade deal withs the european nations because if you hit them up, they're about the say size economically. their economy is about the same size at the united states, and they were with no cars, they don't want anything we have, but we're supposed to take their cars and food and everything and agriculture. i changed that. but the big thing i change second-degree they don't want to pay. the only reason that he can play games with nato is because i got them to put up hundreds of billions of dollars. i said -- and he's right about this, i said no, i'm not going to support nato if you don't pay. the answer to that question: would you guard us against russia at a very secret meeting of the 28 states at that time, nations at that time, and they said no, if you don't pay, i won't do that. you know what happened? billions and billions of dollars came flowing in the next day and

the next months. but now we're in the same position. we're paying everybody's bills. dana: thank you. jake: turn to the issue of democracy. former president trump, i want to ask you about january 6, 2021. after you rallied your supporters that day, some of them stormed the capitol to stop the constitutionally mandated counting of electoral votes. as president, you swore an oath to "preserve, protect, and defend" the constitution. what do you say to voiters that believe you violated that cotyledon through your -- that oath through your accounting standards boards and inactions and will you do it again? >> let me tell you about januard a great border. nobody coming through, very few. on january 6, we were energy independent. on january 6 we had the lowest taxes ever, lowest regulations ever. on january 6, we were respected all over the world, all over the world we were respected. and then he comes in and we're now laughed at. we're like a bunch of stupid

people. what happened to the united states' reputation under this man's leadership is horrible. including weaponization, which i'm sure at some point you'll be talking about where he goes after his political opponent because he can't beat them fair and square. jake: 80 seconds left, my question was what do you say to the voters that believe you violated your constitutional oath through your action, inaction on january 6, 2021 and worry that you'll do it again? >> i didn't say that to anybody. i said peacefully and patriotically. and nancy pelosi if you just watched the news from two days ago, on tape to her daughter, who's a documentary film maker they say, she's saying, oh, no, it's my responsibility. i was responsible for this because i offered her 10,000 soldiers or national guard, and she turned them down and the mayor of -- in writing by the way, the mayor in writing turn turn it had down, the mayor of dc. they turned it down. i offered 10,000. i could see, i had virtually

nothing to do. they asked me to make a speech. i could see what was happening. everybody said they were going to be there on january 6. i said, there's a lot of people coming. you could feel it and you could feel it too . i said they ought to have national guard or whatever. i offered it to her and she now admits that she turned it down. it was the same day she was, i don't know, he can't be very happy with her daughter because made her into a lawyer. said i take full responsibility for january 6. jake: president biden. >> look, he encouraged those folks to come to the capitol hill, number one. i sat in a dining room off the oval office. he sat there for three hours. three hours watching, begging, being begged by his vice president and a number of his colleagues and republicans to do something. to call for a stop and end it. instead he talked about these people being patriots and great patrons of america. in fact, he says he'll now

forgive them for what they've done. if they're convicted, he wants to commute their sentences and say, you know, he went to every single court in the nation. i don't know how many cases. scores of cases including supreme court, and they said, they said no, no, this guy is responsible for doing what is being -- what was done. he didn't do a damn thing and these people should be in jail. they shall should be in ones that are being held accountable. he wants to let them all out and said he loses again such a winier that he is. it'll be a glad bath. whiner he s. it'll be a blood bath. jake: thank you, president trump. >> what they've done to some people that are innocent, you ought to be ashamed and you've destroyed the lives of so many people and ripped down portland and ripped down many other cities, you go to minnesota, minneapolis, what they've done there with the fires all over the city. if i didn't bring in the national guard, that city would

have been destroyed. when you look at all of the -- they took over big chunks of seattle. i was all set to bring in the nags guard and heard that and saw them coming and left immediately. what he said about this whole subject is so off. peacefully, pat pate oturuicall. two horrible republicans that are all gone and out of office and democrats all democrats, they destroyed and deleted all of the information they found because they found out we were right. we were right. and they deleted and destroyed all of the information. they should go to jail for that. if a republican did that, they'd go to jail. jake: thank you. president trump. president biden, i want to give you a minute. >> only person on this stage that's a convicted felon is the man i'm looking at right now. what he's telling you is simply not true. the fact is that there was no effort on his part to stop what was going on up on capitol hill, and all those people, every one

of those convicted deserves to be convicted. the idea that they didn't kill somebody just went in and broke down doors and broke the windows. occupied offices, turned over desks, turned over statues. the idea that those people are patriots. come on. whistled ask in the first two debates we had first time around. i said will you denounce the proud boys? he said no, i'll tell them to stand by. the idea he's refusing to denounce these guys, denounce the people we're talking about now. you denounce the people who attacked that capitol. what are you going to do? jake: i'm going to give you a minute, president trump, for follow up question i have. after a jury convicted you of 34 felonies last month, you said if reelected you'd "have every right to go after" your political opponents and talked about members of the select committee on january 6 going to

jail. your main political opponent is standing on stage with you tonight. what does it mean you have every right to go after political opponents? >> my retribution is success and going to make it successful again because it's a failing nation. my retribution is success and talking about a convicted felon is a convicted felon at a very high level and going to be convicted numerous other times and should have been convicted before but his justice department let the statute of limitations lapse on the most important things and he could be a convicted felon as soon as he gets out of office. joe could be with all of the things he's done. he's done horrible things. all of the death caused at the border and telling the ukrainian people that we're going to want a billion to change the prosecutor. otherwise you're not getting a billion dollars. if i said that, that's quid pro quo. we're not going to do anything, we're not going to give you a billion unless you change your prosecutor. having to do with his son. this man is a criminal.

this man, you're lucky, you're lucky. i did nothing rock. we have a system that was rigged and disgusting. i did nothing wrong. jake: thank you, president trump. president biden, you have said -- i'm coming right to you sir. you want to respond, go ahead. i'll give you a minute to respond. >> the idea they did anything wrong relative to what you're talking about is outrageous. simply a lie number one. number two, the idea that you have an idea to secret ribbings against any american because you're -- retribution against any president because you're wrong is wrong. no president has spoken like that in our history has spoken like that before. number three, the crimes you're still charged with and think about all the civil penalties and how many billions of dollars do you own, civil penalties for molesting a woman in public and having sex with a porn star on the night -- while your wife was pregnant. what are you talking about? you have the morals of a an ally

cat. >> i didn't have sex with a porn star. number one. two number, that was a case started and moved. they moved a high ranking official, doj into the manhattan da's office to start that case. that case is going to be appealed and won. we had a very terrible judge with a horrible judge, democrat. the prosecutor, were all high ranking democrats appointed people, and both the civil and the criminal. he basically went after his political opponent because he thought it was going to damage me but the public found out about the cases and understand them better than he does. he has no idea what the cases are. when they found out about these cases, you know what they did? my poll numbers went way up. you know that because you're reporting it, and we took in more money in the last two weeks than we've ever taken in in the history of any campaign, i don't think any campaign has ever taken hundreds of millions of dollars came pouring in because the public knows it's a scam, and it's a guy that's after his political opponent because he

can't win fair and square. jake: thank you, president trump. president biden, you have have said "donald trump and his maga republicans are determined to destroy american democracy". do you believe that the tens of millions of americans who are likely to vote for president trump will be voting against american democracy? >> more they know about what he's done, yes. the more they know about what he's done. a lot more coming. he's got a lot of cases on the road coming out. he's got a whole range of issues he has to face. i don't know what the juries will do. i do know he has a real problem. so the fact that -- ever think you've heard any president say i'm going to seek retribution or have good ideas? what got my son indicted because of iraq saying i wasn't going to run again. people coming out of the woods and carrying swastikas on torches and saying the same song

they sang back in germany. and the young woman that got killed and i spoke to the mother and asked him and said, what do you think of those people? the people that got killed when you tried to stop it and others? i think they're fine people on both sides. what american president would ever say natzis coming out of fields carrying torches singing the same anti-semitic bio carrying swastikas were fine people. this is the guy that said hitler has done good things and i'd like to know what they are. that's what he said. this guy has no sense of american democracy. jake: president trump. >> jake, both of you know the story has been wiped out. the sentence said 100% exoneration on this and he keep it is going and said he ran because charlottesville. he ran because it was his last

chance and it's re-deck louis and you and i know it and we're trying to justify his president seizure disorders and his presidency, without question the worst president, the worst presidency in the history of our country. we shouldn't be having a debate about it. there's nothing to debate. he made up the charlottesville story, and you'll see it's debunked all over the place, every anchor has, every reasonable anchor debunked it and just the other day it came out and fully debunked and it's a nonsense story. he know knows that and he didn'n because of charlottesville and that was an excuse to run. jake: president biden. >> debunked and it happened. just listen to what was said at the time. the idea that somehow that's the only reason i ran. i ran because i was worried a guy like this could get elected. if he thought they were good people coming out of that forest, carrying those torches that he didn't deserve to be president. didn't deserve to be president at all. the idea that he's talking about all this being fabricated.

we saw it with our own eyes and what happened on january 6. we saw the people breaking through the windowing ands people occupying -- his own vice president. look, there's a reason why 40 of his 44 top cabinet officers refused to endorse him this time. his vice president hasn't endorsed him this time. why? why? they know him well. they served with him. why are they not endorsing him? jake: thank you, president biden. we'll be right back with more from the cnn presidential debate. ♪

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their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that's uncalled for.

♪ >> welcome back to the cnn presidential debate live from georgia. let's talk about the challenges you both faced in your first terms, and you'd certainly face again in the second term. president biden, while black unemployment dropped to a record low under your presidency, black families still earned far less than white families. black mothers are still three times more likely to die from pregnancy-related causes, and black americans are imprisoned at five times the rate of white americans. what do you say to black voters who are disappointed that you haven't made more progress? >> let me acknowledge we made a lot of progress, number one. there have been more small black businesses started than at any

time in history. number two, black unemployment is the lowest it's been in a long, long time. number three, we provided housing for black americans. and dealing with segregation that exists among these corporate, corporations include to keep people out of their houses. mission to that, we find -- in addition to that, we find the impact on the choice that black families have to make relative to childcare is a incredibly difficult. when we did the first major piece of legislation that passed, i was able to reduce black childcare costs, i cut them in half, in half. we're boeing to make sure we provide for childcare costs, we have got to make sure -- because when we from if slide childcare protections, you increase economic growth because more people can be in the job market. so there's more to be done, considerably more to be done, but we've done a great deal so far, and i'm not letting up, and

they know it. >> you have 49 seconds left. what do you say to black voters who are disappointed with the progress so far? >> i say i don't blame them for being disappointed. inflation is still hurting them badly. for example, i provided for the idea that any if black family, first-time home buyer should get a $10,000 tax credit to be able to buy their first home so they can get started. i made sure that we're in a situation where all those black families and black individuals provided -- had to take out student loans that were ballooning, that if they were in nursing, anything having to do with volunteer theism,if they paid their bills for 10 years, their student debt, all the rest is forgiven after 10 years. millions have benefited from that, and we're going to do a whole lot more for pa if black families. >> thank you. president trump. >> and he caused the inflation. he's blaming inflation, and he's right, it's been very bad. he caused the inflation, and

it's killing black families and hispanic families and just about a everybody. it's killing people. they can't buy groceries anymore. they can't -- you look at the cost of food where it's doubled, tripled and quadrupled, they can't live. they're not living anymore. he caused this inflation. i gave him a country with essentially no inflation. it was perfect. it was so good. all he had to do was leave it alone. he destroyed it with his green new scam and all the other -- all this money that's being thrown out the window. he caused inflation. soars you're sitting there. the fact is that his big kill on the black people is the millions of people that he's allowed to come in through the border. they're taking black jobs now, and it could be 18, it could be 19 and even 20 million people. they're taking black jobs, and they're taking hispanic jobs. you haven't seen it yet, but you're going to see something that's going to be the worst in our history. >> thank you. president biden? >> there was no inflation when i

became president, why? the economists -- economy was flat on its back. 50% unemployment. he designate -- decimated the economy. that's why there was no inflation at the time. there were no jobs. i provided thousands and millions of jobs for individuals who are in all communities including minority communities. we made sure that a they have health insurance. we have covered, the aca has -- i made sure that there are $8,000 per person in a family written off for health care. but this guy wants to eliminate that. they've tried 50 times. he wants to get rid of the aca again, and they're going to try again if they win. we find ourselves in a position where the idea we're not doing any -- we put more police on the street than any administration has. he wants to cut the cops. we provide for equity, equity in making sure that people have a shot to make it. there's a lot going on. but in inflation, he caused it by his tremendous malfeasance

and the way he handled the pandemic. >> thank you. another persistent challenge is the climate crisis is. 2023 was the hottest year in recorded history in communities across the country are confronting the devastating effects of extreme heat, intensifying wildfires, stronger hurricanes and rising sea levels. former president trump, you've vowed to end your opponent's climate initiatives, but will you take any action as president to slow the climate crisis? >> let me just go back to what he said about the police. how close the police are to him. almost every police group in the nation from every state is supporting donald j. trump. almost every police group. and what he's done to the black population is horrible. including the fact that for ten years he called them super predators in the 1990s. we can't forget that. super predators was his name. and he called it to them, and they've taken great offense at it. and now they see it happening.

but when they see what i did for criminal justice reform and for the historically black colleges and universities where with i funded them and got 'em all a funded and the opportunity zones with tim, as you know, tim scott was incredible. he did a great job, great senator from south carolina. he came to me with the idea, and it was a great idea. the it's one of the most successful economic development acts ever in the country. opportunity zones. and the biggest beneficiary are blacks. and that's why we have the best numbers with them maybe ever. they're saying ever. i read this morning ever, the best numbers. he's lost much of the black population because he's done a horrible job for black people. he's also done a horrible job for hispanics. but wait until you see these millions of people pouring into our country, and they're going to take the jobs. and it's already started. and you haven't seen anything yet. it's a disaster. >> you have 38 seconds left, president trump. will you take any action as president to slow the climate

crisis? >> so i want absolutely image if late -- immaculate clean water, clean air, and we had it. we had h2o. we had the best numbers ever, and we did -- we were using all forms of energy, all forms, everything. and yet during my four years i had the best environmental a numbers ever. and my top environmental people gave me that statistic just before i walked on the stage actually. >> i don't know where the hell he's been. the idea that anything he said is true. i passed the most extensive, the most extensive climate change legislation in history. in history. we found ourselves -- and, by the way, black colleges, i came up with $50 billion for hbcus, historic black universities and colleges, because they don't have 'em, they don't have the kind of contributors that they have to build these laboratories and the like. any back student is capable in

college of doing anything any white student can do, they just need the money. the jobs in high-tech. the situation; the idea that he's claiming to have done something, to have the cleanest water? cleanest water? if he hasn't done a damn thing on the environment. he, out of the parents' peace accord -- climate accord -- paris, i immediately joined us. 1.5 degrees celsius, there's no way back. the only exist ten the,, threat to humanity is climate change, and he didn't do a damn thing about it. >> the paris accord was going to cost us a trillion dollars, and china nothing and russia nothing and india nothing. it was a ripoff of the united states. and i ended it because i didn't want to waste that money because they treat us horribly. we were the only ones -- it was costing us money. nobody if else was paying into it, and it was a disaster. but everything that he said just now, i'll give you an example. i heard him say before, insulin.

i'm the one that got the insulin down for the seniors. i took care of the seniors. what he's doing is destroying all of our medical programs because the migrants coming in, they want everybody -- and, look, i have biggest heart on the stage, i guarantee you that. i want to take care of people, but we're destroying our country. they're taking over our schools, our hospitals, and they're going if to be taking over social security. he is destroying social security, medicare and medicaid. >> the idea is that we, in fact, we were the only ones of consequence who were not, not members of the paris accord. how can we do anything if we're not able -- the united states can't get it under control? one of the largest closures in the world, number one. we're making significant progress. by 2035 we will have cut pollution in half. we have made significant progress. and we're continuing to make progress. we set up a climate corps for thousands of young people to learn how to deal with climate

just like the peace corps, and we're going to -- we're moving in directions that are going to significantly change the elements that cause pollution. but the idea that this he claims that he has the biggest heart up here and he's really concerned about pollution and about climate, i've not seen any indication of that. and, by the way, with regard to prescription drugs, one company agreed that they would reduce the price to $35 which i was calling for, one, voluntarily. i made sure every company in the world, every pharmaceutical company cannot is have to -- >> thank you. >> and, by the way -- >> so every day millions of americans struggle just to make ends meet. for many older americans, social security provides a critical lifeline. president biden, if nothing is done to social security, seniors will see their benefits cut in just over ten years. will you name tonight one specific step that a you're willing to take to keep social security solvent?

>> yes, make the very wealthy begin to pay their fair share. right now everybody making under $1700,000 pays 6% of their income, of their pay paycheck every single time they get, the first one they get from 18 years old. the idea that they're going to -- i've been from proposing that everybody, they pay -- million a their -- millionaires pay 1%. 1%. so no one after -- not raise the cost of social security for anybody under $400,000. after that i begin to make the wealthy begin to pay their fair share a by increasing from 1% beyond to be able to guarantee the program for life. >> you still have 82 seconds left. are there any other measures you think would with keep social security solvent, or is that one enough? >> that one enough will keep it solvent, but the biggest thing it'll do is be defeat this man because he wants to get rid of social security. he thinks there's plenty to cut in social security. he wants to cut social security

and medicare both times x. if you look at the program put forward by the house republican caucus that he's, supports, is, in fact, want to cut it as well. the idea that we don't need to protect our seniors is ridiculous. we put -- and, by the way, the american public has greater health care coverage today than ever before. and on the aca, as i said, you're in a circumstance where 400,000 people -- i mean, 40 million people would not have insurance because they have a previous condition. the only thing that allows them to have that insurance is the fact that they, in fact, are part of the aca. and by the way, the other thing is we're in a situation where i talk about education for black communities. i've raised the number, the amount of money for pell grants another $8,000 for anybody making under $70,000 a year is going to be able to get $15,000 toward tuition. if you just don't know what he's talking about. >> thank you, president biden.

president trump. >> so i've dealt with politicians all my life are. i've been on this side of the equation for the last eight years. if i've never seen anybody lie like this guy. he lies. he can look you in the face -- about so many other things too. we mentioned the laptop, we mentioned russia, russia, russia, ukraine, ukraine, you know with, and everything he does is a lie. it's misinformation and disinformation. the losers and suckers story that he made up is a total lie on the military. it's a disgrace. but social security, he's destroying it because millions of people are pouring into our country, and they're putting them on to social security, they're putting them on to medicare and medicaid. they're putting them in our hospitals. they're taking the place of our citizens. what they're doing to the v.a., to our veterans is unbelievable. our veteranning are lives in thn the street, and these people are living in luxury hotels. he doesn't know what he's doing, and it's really coming back.

i've never seen such anger in our country before. >> president biden? >> the idea veterans are not being taken care of, i told you before -- and, by the way, when i said suckers and losers, he said -- he acknowledged after that he fired that general. that general got fired because he's the one that that acknowledged that's what he said. he was the one standing with trump when he said it, number one. number two, the idea that we're going to be in a situation where all these millions if millions he talks about a illegal aliens are coming into the country and taking away our jobs, there's a reason why we have the fastest growing economy in the world, a reason why we have the most successful economy in the world. we're doing better than any other nation in the world. and, by the way, those 15 nobel laureates he talked about being phony, those 15 nobel laureates, economists, they all said if trump's reelected, we're likely to have a recession and inflation's going to increase and go up. by the way, worst president in history? 159 presidential scholars voted

him the worst president in the history of the united states of america. >> president biden, thank you so much. let's turn to the cost of childcare. president trump, both you and president biden have tried to address this issue, but the average cost of childcare in this country has risen to more than $11,000 a year per child for many families the cost of childcare for two children is more than their rent. in your second term, what would you do to make childcare more affordable? enter just to go back, the general got fired because he was no good, and if he said that, that's why he made it up. but we have 19 people that said i didn't say it, and they're very highly respected. much more so than him. the other thing is he doesn't fire people. he never if fired people. i've never seen him fire anybody. i did fire a lot. i fired comey because he was no good, i fired a lot of top people at the fbi, drained the swamp, they were no good. not easy to fire people, you pay a price for it, but i inherited these people.

i didn't put comey there. i fired him. this guy hasn't fired anybody. he should have fired every military man that was involved with that afghan, the afghanistan horror show, the most embarrassing moment in the history of our country. if he didn't fire -- did you fire anybody? did you fire anybody that's on the border that's allowed us to have the worst border in the history of the world? did anybody get fired for allowing 18 million people, many from prisons, many from mental institutions? did you fire anybody that allowed our country to be destroyed? joe, our country is being destroyed as you and i sit up here and waste a lot of time on this debate. this shouldn't be a debate. he is the worst president. he just said it about me because i said it. but look, he's the worst president in the history of our country. he's destroyed our country. now he's trying to get a little tough on the border. he came out with a nothing deal, and it reduced it a little bit, a little bit, like this much. it's insignificant. he wants open borders.

he wants our country to either be destroyed, or he wants to pick up those people as voters. and i don't think -- we just can't let it happen. if he wins this election, our country doesn't have a chance, not even a chance. of coming out of this rut. we probably won't have a country left anymore, that that's how bad it is. he is the worst in history by far. >> thank you, president trump. president biden? >> we are the most admired country in the world. we're the united states of america. there's nothing beyond our capacity. we have the finest military in the history of the world, the nine finest in the history of the world. no one thinks we're weak. no one wants to screw around with us, nobody. number one. number two, the idea that we're talking about worse presidents, i wasn't joking. look it up. go online. 159, 158, don't hold me to the exact number, presidential historians have had meetings, and they've voted who's the worst president in american history, best to worst.

they said he was the worst in all of american history. that's a fact. that's not conjecture. he can argue they're wrong, but that's what they voted. the idea that he is knowing, doing anything to deal with childcare, he did very, virtually nothing in childcare. we should significantly increase the childcare tax credit, we should significantly increase the availability of women and men or single parents to be able to go back to work, and we should encourage businesses to hold, to have -- >> thank you, president biden. president trump, the question was about what would you do to make childcare more affordable, if you want to take your minute. >> just so you understand, we have polling, we have other things -- they rate him the worst because what he's done is so bad. i'll show you. i will show you. and they rate me one of the best, okay? and if i'm given another four years, i will be the best. i think i'll be the best. nobody's ever created an economy like us, nobody ever cut taxes like us. he's the only one i know he wants to raise your taxes by four finals.

he ant -- four times. he wants to raise everybody's taxes by four times. he wants the trump tax cuts to expire so everybody, including the two of you, are going to pay four to five times -- all my life i grow up and i see politicians talking about cutting taxes. when we cut taxes, as i said, we did more business. apple and all these companies, they were bringing money back into our country. if the worst president in history by far, and everybody knows it. >> president biden? >> look, the fact of the matter is that he's dead wrong about -- he's increased, he will increase the taxes on middle class people. i said i'd never raise a tax on anybody making less than $400,000. i didn't. finish this tariff, these 10% tariffs, everything coming into the country, you know what the economists say? that's going to cost the average american $2,500 a year more because they're going to have to pay the difference in food and all the things that were imported. number two, he's in a situation

where he talks about how he has not raised, he somehow helped the middle class. middle class have been devastated by you. now you want a new tax cut of $5 trillion over the next 10 years which is going to fundamentally bankrupt the country. you have the largest deficit of any president in american history, number one. number two, you have not, in fact, made any context, any progress with china. we are at the lowest trade deficit with china since 2010 -- >> thank you, president biden. thank you, president biden. let's discuss an epidemic impacting millions of americans that both of you have made a top priority in your first term, the opioid crisis. and for both of you, the number of overdose deaths in this country has gone up. under your term it went up, under your term it has gone up. former president trump, despite the efforts that both of you have made, more than 100,000 americans are are dying from overdoses every we're -- every

year. what will you do to help americans right now in the throes of aa diction who are struggling to get the treatment they need? >> to finish up, we now have the largest deficit in the history of our country under this guy. we have the largest deficit with china. he gets paid by china. he's a manchurian candidate. he gets money from china. so i think he's afraid to deal with them or something. but you notice he never tack out my tariffs because we bring in so much money with the tear tariffs i imposed. he never took them away. he can't, it's too much money. we saved our steel industry, and there was more to come, but he hasn't done that. he hasn't cut the tariffs because he can't. it's too much money. but he's got the largest deficit in the history of to our country, and he's got the worst situation with china. china's going to own us if you keep allowing them to do what they're doing to us as a country. they are killing us as a country, joe, and you can't let that happen. you're destroying our country. >> president trump, you have 67

seconds left. the question was, what are you going to do to help americans in the throes of addiction right now who are struggling to get the treatment they need? >> jake, we're doing very well in addiction until the covid came along. we had the two and a half, almost three years like nobody's ever had before, any country never way, and then we had to get tough. and it was the drugs pouring across the border were -- it started to increase. we got great equipment. we bought the certain dog that's the most incredible thing that you've ever seen, the way they can spot it. we did a lot. and we had -- we were getting very low numbers, very, very low numbers. then he came along. the numbers, have you seen the numbers now? it's not only the 18 million people that i believe is even low because the gotaways, they don't even talk about gotaways. but the numbers of, the amount of drugs and human trafficking in women coming across our border, the worst thing i've ever seen. numbers that nobody's ever seen under him because the border's

so bad. but the number of drugs coming across our border now is the largest we've ever a had by far. >> president trump, thank you. president biden? >> fentanyl and the by-products of fentanyl went down for a while. and i wanted to make sure we use the machinery that can detect fennal, these big machines that roll over everything that comes across the border. and it cost a lot of money. this was part of this bipartisan deal we put together, more fentanyl machines, more to be able to detect drugs, more members of agents, more numbers of -- all at the border. and when we had that deal done, he went and he called his republican colleagues and said don't do it. it's going to hurt me politically. he never if argued it's not a good bill. it's a really good bill. we need those machines. we need those machines, and we're coming down hard on every country in asia in terms of precursors for fentanyl, and mexico is working with us to make sure they don't have the

technology to put it together. that's what we have to do, we need those machines. >> president trump, again, the question is about americans in the throes of aa diction right now struggling to get the treatment they need. >> because this does pertain to it. he ended remain in mexico? he ended catch and release. i made it catch and release in mexico, not catch and release here. we had so many things that we had done, hard negotiations with mexico, and i got it all for nothing. t just like when you have a hostage, we pay $6 billion for a hostage. now we have a hostage, a "wall street journal" reporter, i think a good guy, and he's over there because putin is laughing at this guy, probably asking for billions of dollars for the reporter. i will have him out very quickly, as soon as i take office, before i take office. i said by literally as soon as i win the election, i-that reporter out. he should -- i will have that reporter out. but putin's probably asking for billions and billions of collars

because this -- of dollars because this guy pays it every time. we had two cases where we paid $6 billion for 5 people. i got 58 people out, and i paid essentially nothing. >> thank you, president trump. >> let's turn to concerns voters have about a each of you. president biden, you would be 86 at the end of your second term. how to you address concerns about your capability to handle the toughest job in the world well into your 80s? >> well, first of all, i spent half my career being criticized for being the youngest person in politics. i was the second youngest person ever elected to the united states senate. and now i'm the oldest. this guy's three years younger and a lot less competent. just look at the record. look at what i've done. look how i've turned around the horrible situation he left me. as i said, 15 million new jobs, 800,000 more manufacturing jobs, more investment in america. over billions of dollars in private investment, enterprises we are growing.

by the way, we brought an awful lot of people, the whole idea of computer chips. we used to have 3 of the market. we invented those chips and we lost it because he was sending people to find the cheapest jobs overseas and bring home the product. so i went the south korea. i convinced samsung to invest billions of dollars here in the united states. and guess what? those fabs they call them, to build these chips, those fabs pay over $10 100,000. you don't need a college degree for them. and there's billions, about $40 billion already being invested and being built right now in the united states creating significant jobs for americans all over, from all over the world. >> president biden, you have 40 seconds left. would you like to add anything? >> yeah, i would. the idea that somehow we are this failing country. i never heard a president talk like this before. we're the the envy of the world. name me a single major country

president who wouldn't trade places with the united states of america. all our problems and all our opportunities. we're the most progressive country in the world in getting things done. we're the strongest country in the world. we're a country in the world who keeps our world and everybody trusts us, all of our allies and our -- those who he coddles up up to,. kimberly: jong unhe sends love letters to and putin -- kimberly: jong un. >> thank you. former president trump, you would be 82 at the end of your second term. what do you say to voters who have concerns about your capabilities to serve? >> well, i took two tests, cognitive tests. i aced them, as you know. i made them public. he took none. i'd love to see him take just one, go through the first five questions. he couldn't do it. i took physical exams every year, and, you know, we knock on wood wherever we may have wood that i'm in very good health. i just won two club

championships. not even senior. two regular club championships. to do that, you have to be quite smart and you have to be able to hit the ball a long way, and i do do it. he challenged me to a golf match. he can't hit a ball 50 yards. i think i'm in very good shape. i feel that i'm in as good of shape as i was 25, 30 years -- actually, i'm probably a little bit lighter. but i'm in as good of shape as i was years ago, i feel the same. i was willing to take a cognitive test, and if i didn't do well -- i aced them. dr. ronnie jackson, great guy, i took another one, a similar one, and one of them said they've never seen anybody ace them. >> thank you. you can see he is 6-5 and only 235 pounds. >> [inaudible] >> well, you said 6-4 -- >> [inaudible] >> well, anyway, that's -- anyway. just take a look at what he says he is and take it for the way he

is. look, i'd be happy to have a driving contest with him. i've got my handicap when i was vice president down the a 6. and, by the way with, i told you before i'm happy to play golf with you if you carry your owning bag. think you can do it? >> -- a 6 handy happen. >> -- handicap. >> i was an 8 -- >> yeah. i've seen your swing. i know your swing -- >> let's -- president trump -- >> let's not act like children. >> -- to a specific concern that that voters have about you. will you pledge tonight that once all legal challenges have been exhausted, that you will accept the results of this election regardless of who wins, and you will say right now that a political violence in any form is unacceptable? if. >> well, i shouldn't have to say that, but of course i believe that. that's totally the unacceptable. and if all see my statements that i made on twitter at the time and also my statement that

i made in the rose garden, you would say it's one of the strongest statements you've ever seen in addition to the speech i made in front of, i believe, the largest crowd i've ever spoken to. and and i will tell you nobody ever talks about that. they talk about a relatively small number of people that went to the capitol and in many cases were ushered in by the police. and as a nancy pelosi said, it was her responsibility, not mine. she said that loud and clear. but the answer is if the election is fair, free, i want that more than anybody. and i'll tell you something, i wish he was a great president because i wouldn't be here right now. i'd be at one of my many places enjoying myself. i wouldn't be under indictment because i wouldn't have been his political opponent. he indicted me because i was his opponent. i wish he was a great prime minister i would rather have that. i wouldn't be here. i don't mind being here, but the only reason i'm here is he's so gad as a -- bad as a president, that i'm going to make america great again.

we're going to make america great again. we're a failing nation right now. we're a seriously failing nation. and we're a failing nation because of him. his policies are so bad. his military policies are insane, they're insane. these are wars that will never end with him. he will drive us into world war iii, and we're closer to world war iii than anybody can imagine. we are very, very close to world war iii. and he's driving us there. and kim jong un and president xi of china, kim jong un of north korea, all these -- putin, they don't respect him, they don't fear him. they have nothing going with this gentleman, and he's going to drive us into world war iii. >> you want a world war iii, let him follow and win and let putin say do what you want in nato. just to what you want. no article v, an attack on one is an attack at all and requires response. the idea, the idea -- i can't think of a single major -- in

the world who wouldn't trade places with the job i've done and the job they've done. we're a powerful nation. it's because of the people. not me, it's because of the american people. they're capable of anything, and they step up when they're needed. and right now we're needed. we're needed to protect the world because our own safety is at stake. and again, you want to have war, let putin go ahead and take kyiv, see what happens in poland, hungary and other places along that border. then you have a war. >> president trump, as i come back to you for a follow-up, the question was will you accept the results of this election regardless of who wins? >> just to finish what he said, if i might, russia, they took a lot of land from bush, they took a lot of land from obama and biden. they took no land, nothing from trump. nothing. he knew not to do it. not going to play games with me. he knew that. i got along with him very well, but he knew not to play games.

he took nothing from me. but now he's going to take the whole thing from this man right here. that's a war that should have never started. it would have never started ever with me. and he's going to take ukraine. and and, you know, you asked me a question would you do this -- he's got us in such a bad position right now with ukraine and russia because you know's -- ukraine's not winning that war. he said i will never settle -- they're running out of people people, they're running out of soldiers. they've lost so many people, it's so sad. they've lost those gorgeous cities with the golden domes that are a thousand years old all a because of him and stupid decisions. russia would have never attacke- >> president trump, the question was, will you accept the results of the election regardless of who wins, yes or no, please? >> if it's a fair and legal and good election are, absolutely. i would have much rather accepted these, but the fraud and everything else was

ridiculous. and if you want, we'll have a news conference on it in a week or we'll have another one of these in a week. but i will absolutely, there's nothing i'd rather do. it would be much easier for me to do that than running again. i wasn't really going to run until i saw the horrible job he did. he's destroying our country. i would be very happy to be someplace else in a nice location someplace. and, again, no indictments, no political opponent stuff, a because it's the only way he thinks he can win with. but unfortunately, it's driven up my numbers and driven them up to a very high level because the people understand it. >> let's see what your numbers are when this election is over. let's see. you're a whiner. when you lost the first time, you continued, you appealed and appealed to courts all across the country. not one single court in america said any of your claims had any merit. state or local. none. but you continue to provoke --

promote this lie about somehow there's all this misrepresentation, all stealing. there is no evidence of that at all. and if i tell you what, i doubt you'll accept it because you such a whiner. the idea if you lose again you accepted anything, you can't stand the loss. something snapped in you when you lost last time. >> we'll be right back with more from the cnn presidential debate live from georgia. ♪ ♪ if so, what are you thinking? i'm thinking... (speaking to self) about our honeymoon. what about africa? safari? hot air balloon ride? swim with elephants? wait, can we afford a safari? great question. like everything, it takes a little planning. or, put the money towards a down-payment... ...on a ranch ...in montana ...with horses let's take a look at those scenarios. j.p. morgan wealth management has advisors in chase branches and tools, like wealth plan to keep you on track. when you're planning for it all... the answer is j.p. morgan wealth management.

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>> it is now time for the candidates to deliver their closing statements as predetermined by a coin toss. we're going to begin with you, president biden. you have two minutes. >> we have made significant progress from the debacle that was left by president trump in his last term. we find ourselves in a situation where, number one, we have to make sure that we have a a fair tax system. i ask anyone out there in the audience or anyone out watching this debate, do you think the tax system is fair? the fact is that i said nobody making under $400,000 would have a single penny increase in their taxes, and they not. and if i'm reelected, that'll be the case again. but this guy is, has increased your taxes because of the deficit, number one. he's increased inflation because of the bedawninging he left after -- debacle he left after

the way he handled the pandemic. and he finds himselfs in a position where he wants to tax you more. what i did, for example, he wants to get away with, get rid of the ability of medicare to -- for the ability for the, us to be able to negotiate drug prices with big pharma companies. well or, guess what? if we got it down to 15, excuse me, $35 for insulin instead of $ 400, no more than $2,000 for every senior no matter what their -- how much prescriptions they need. do you know what that did? that reduced the federal debt by $1600 billion over 10 years -- 160, because the federal government doesn't have to pay the exorbitant prices. i'm going to make that available to every senior. it's hag now and everybody -- happening now and everybody in america. he wants to get rid of that. i'm going to make shower we have

childcare. we're going to significantly increase the credits people have for childcare. we're going to make sure we're doing something about what we're doing on lead pipes and all the things that are causing health problems for people across the country. we're going to continue to fight to bring down inflation and give people a break. >> thank you, president biden. president trump. you now have two minutes for your closing statement. >> like so many politicians, this man is just -- he doesn't do anything. all he does is make our country unsafe by allowing millions and millions of people to pour in. our military doesn't respect him. we look like fools in afghanistan. we didn't stop israel, it was such a horrible thing. that would have never happened, it should have never happened. iran was broke. anybody that a do did business with iran, including china, they couldn't do business with the united states. they all passed. iran was broke. they had no money for hamas or hezbollah, for terror. no money whatsoever.

when, ukraine should have never happened. he talks about all this stuff thing but he didn't do it. for three and a half years we're living in hell. we have the pal stint januaries and everybody else rioting all over the place. you talk about charlottesville, this is a hundred times, a thousand times -- the whole country is exploding because of you with. they don't respect you. and they have to respect their president. and they don't respect you throughout the world. what we did was incredible. we rebuilt the military. we got the largest tax cut in history, the largest regulation cut in history. the reason he's got jobs is because i cut the are regulations that gave jobs. but he's putting a lot of those regulations back on. all of the things that we've done, nobody's ever seen anything like -- even from if a medical standpoint, right to try where we can try space age materials instead of going to asia or going to europe and if trying to get when you're terminally ill, now you can go and you sign a document. they've been trying to get it for 42 years, but you know what we did for the military?

it was incredible. choice for our soldiers. instead of waiting three months to see a doctor, they can go out and get themselves fixed up and readied up and take care of themselves. and they're living. that's why i had the highest approval rating in the history of the v.a. so all of these things. we're in a failing nation, but it's not going to be failing anymore. we're going to make it great again. >> thank you, former president trump. president biden. stay with us because with we have full analysis of this debate. anderson cooper and erin burnett starts now on cnn. >> and there you have it. a combative debate is in the weeks. -- books. the attacks pointed, at times personal. did either candidate move the needle -- needle? good evening again, i'm bret bair. martha: and i'm martha maccallum. welcome to the postgame coverage of the first presidential debate. with us tonight, harold ford if jr., dana preen that, jesse

watters, kellyanne conway, brit hume also with us. bret: this was a 90-minute debate between the two prospective nominees of their parties, and really the news came in the first few moments. president biden spoke his first words in a very raspy voice, at times stumbling through early answers. ten minutes in he stopped gnat on an answer, stopped short. the white house is now telling reporters that the president has a cold and has had a cold. en hadn't learned that until tonight. on substance former president trump continued to hammer the issue of border security and illegal immigrants coming across the border again and again and again. president biden made points on abortion, defending nato, but much of the debate went back and forth on how bad each president was, arguing about that, even going down to golf handicaps at one point. maria: martha: that was interesting. bret: the candidates answered what they wanted, but the big

thing was how they looked and how everyone react ad to this moment. martha: it's hard to get past the obvious which was this very weak voice from president biden. at times he had a looks of confusion. he had times, times where he looked vacant while president trump was speaking. and as you mentioned, there was sort of a bit of a freeze around 12 minutes into this. if i mean, this is a problem. this is an issue that either they're going to try to talk their way out of about the cold thing, or they're going to ask the question of whether or not the bar of a strong performance tonight was met. because that is what was talked about, you know, on other networks where you have prominent democrats, axlerod and van jones were saying, look, he's got to prove that he's capable of doing the job, and then he has to really stick it to president trump and really nail that. and a they were saying if he doesn't do thattings then he doesn't, he can't -- doesn't deserve to be up there. i mean, this is the el fan in the room, the donkey in the

room, whatever you want to call it tonight. but this is the issue that everybody is going to be talking about. we're going to play a clip in a little bit, but just one example p. he said he went to normandy and spoke to world war ii veterans who died and visited the world war i cemetery. that's not exactly verbatim, but e both of those elements were in there. trump didn't really indulge in this. he didn't react a whole lot. he did, you know, a little bit of a smirk face at times, but basically he stayed focus. he landed pointers on afghanistan, said he fired generals that needed to be fired and that biden had never done that. obviously, a lot to talk about. bret: yeah. january 6th and other issues as well. overall, the moderators asking questions all a over the board. we'll bring in our panel. brit, first to you. your thoughts on this night, what it means, what you took away -- >> all the discussion of issues that were held, all the details of that -- none of that mattered. one thing mattered and that was joe biden's demeanor.

and from the moment he answered his mouth and answering the the first question, i think america looked and said this man should not be reelected. simply because they were looking to see if he could display strength and command, and he displayed none of that. he sounded weak, possibly because of his cold. he seemed, he seemed unfocused at times. he stumbled. he said preposterous things. just like the one martha just mentioned about saying he visited and talked to the soldiers who died. in my view is, trump didn't change very many people's view of him tonight. biden, i think, did and not for the better. martha: let's go to sean hannity in the spin room in atlanta. sean, what's your reaction? >> you know, guys, in the history of modern televised presidential debate withs, i don't think that america has ever seen anything like this. i wrote down some adjectives, and i'm going to just read a few of them off to you. it was the biggest train wreck

of any presidential candidate ever. he -- brit is right. from the minute he spoke at the opening of the debate, he sounded awful. he started with speedy talk. he looked terrible. maybe the worst part of all of this is when he wasn't even speaking, he was staring out like an empty vessel or vacant, to use martha's words. he was incoherent. this is after a full week of prep, mumbling, bumbling, stumbling, dazed, confused, struggling, you know? he had a brain fart twice during the debate. it was a disaster. now, i'm looking, for example, at the drudge report, and the drudge report is saying operation replace joe biden. that's not good. the border patrol union has come out and said, to be clear, we have never and will never if endorse joe biden. politico has a piece out right now saying biden is toast. calling it now. biden stumbles and rambles in the opening debate.

operation replace him in 130 days? this, the democrats that i know that were texting me are in a state of complete -- they are stunned at how bad this went for him tonight. but, you know, i'd hike to -- i wish, it was almost like i was waiting at times for somebody to just throw in the towel. it was a no mas, no mas moment. it's over, he's done. he is too weak, he is too frail, he is a cognitive mess. he is not strong enough for was the most difficult, toughest, hardest job on the face of the earth, to be the president of our country. this is serious. it is significant, is and i don't know how this plays out from here. to donald trump's credit on the other end, he was dialed in. he did not take the bait. he took the all the slings and arrows. the rehearsed lines of joe biden. he let it roll off him like water off a duck's back, and he stayed on message and was extraordinarily effective on

pretty much every issue of substance they talked about. this is a historic night at a level that i can't even, i can't even measure tonight. bret: sean, are there's going to be a lot of spinning on that -- in that spin room. we'll come back to you. harold ford jr., your thoughts tonight. the fallout. >> i don't disagree largely what brit and sean have said about president biden's performance. i thought it was not a great look or great night for america if you're outside of the country, if you hadn't followed this stuff, this was not the best thing for america. the president, biden seemed confused at times. he seemed unprepared. this week of preparation, he didn't seem to have -- maybe the cold and other things contributed mostly to it. there's no doubt that not only will this not quiet those who were thinking about the idea of a different candidate for democrat, this is only going to increase the organization and the seriousness of an effort -- bret: and do you think that a

happens now? dueck that really happens? >> i don't know. listening to him tonight, i gotta tell you, the freeze-up on the first part, i mean, it seemed like he wanted to say certain things, but he couldn't get them out. and the texts i got from democrats and some republican friends but largely democrat friends, echoed everything that was here. then the last part of it was the amplified -- which you said at the outset, that this was a very negative thing from both -- they clearly had personal dislike. they forget the fact that they're being elected president to represent people, to make people's lives better. i didn't hear if either of them a rosy view about what the country looked like over the next four years. i heard each of them say each of them were to blame for when r where we are right now, and then to be arguing over each other's golf golf handicap. you had two presidential candidates a arguing who was a 10 handicap or 6 handicap while americans are paying too much for food, too much for gas, worried about their kids.

and this is what we dealt with. but specifically for democrats, there's no doubt there's going to be -- this is not going to quiet anything. in fact, i think this is going to increase it in a more serious and organized way. >> dana. >> joy reid on msnbc said my phone never really stopped buzzing. the universal reaction was somewhere approaching panic. think the trump team could probably just take all the democrats' words and run that. during the debate the biden campaign was sending out fund raising appeals saying joe's really crushing him, give him money. and in the meantime, the democrats are openly talking tonight about replacing joe biden -- not like off the recor- bret: no, no, it's a full-on meltdown. >> they are absolutely having this consideration. -- conversation. i saw joe biden at the state of the union. we with all were there. i didn't like the speech, he yelled a lot, but we all thought, okay, maybe he'll do --

that was terrible within the first 10 seconds. 800 minutes into the debate -- 800 minutes is when they asked a question about age. it didn't matter by then what the answer was because everyone had already watched it for 80 minutes. bret: as i said before, to their credit, the moderators asked substantive questions. they did it in a way that a seemed fair. january 6th came after immigration and also inflation. but this is a full, if you look online, a full meltdown on the democratic side about what to do, what comes next. peter doocy's at the white house. peter, any initial reaction? obviously, the white house is going to say he did fine, but any thoughts of people you've talked to about where this goes? >> well, a lot of the talk ahead of this debate was donald trump accusing joe biden of taking adderall to be hopped up. it sounded like he needed benadryl because now the initial reaction from democrats, jacqui

heinrich just sent a group of us on a fox internal e-mail if chain, she talked to a well-connected democratic source who said the house and the senate are going to beat the republicans for now. everyone is freaking out. he, the president, needs to go, but there's no way to replace him unless he agrees. and if we got a couple more quotes from pat ward who is our senior editorial producer here at the white house. he says one democratic source tells fox, not good. and another democratic source tells fox, i am in shock. two people who work with the campaign in wilmington told me during the debate when i asked what's wrong with the president's voice tonight, he has a cold. but at no point in the runup to this did they say, he had a cold. they were posting videos of him bringing -- drinking water in the elevator at the venue to say that was his performance enhancer. nothing about a cold. and we understand that his schedule the next couple days is going to be packed. he's going directly from the

debate to north carolina for some campaign events and then to new york for some fundraisers. if he is actually sick, you would think that they would take him down because he's having a hard time speaking and is possibly contagious. we have not heard about any schedule changes yet. bret: peter, we're being told that the vice president is going to be out doing media tonight. we'd love to have her on here, she's welcome anytime. >> reporter: madam vice president! [laughter] bret: thank you, peter. you trying to get her will there? i think she's someplace else. [laughter] peter, thank you. i want to the turn to kellyanne conway. what is your takeaway here, and what does happen? first of all, it doesn't seem like the september 10 19th debate is happening -- >> i think that's close to zero. there's no way that the same people who fed if us all a bunch of lies that in private joe biden is some a.i.-generated cart wheel machine. we all know what he's like in private because we all just saw him in public. and whoever's a idea it was to

split the gene between joe biden and donald trump is not serving the president well. joe biden asked for this debate, he basically begged for it to save his presidency, and he's harmed it even more. i want to say this to our democratic friends who are watching. this is enough. it's enough. you're ruining the country. everybody -- world leaders are seeing what we all see. let's stop arguing about golf handy caps and a little aside here and there. the serious point is this is just a man who can't do the job. can't we admit that? everybody has a relative who's in a situation like this. i hope joe biden lives another 20 years. i just think it should be spent in delaware asap. you and peter doocy just said the two magic words on why it hasn't been easety to -- easy to remove president biden, kamala harris. people fear her. the fact you with even mention gavin newsom is or gretchen whitmer, how are we not

mentioning the vice president? nobody has confidence in her competence. they are scared about her being the president. and i think that's a very important point here. but let's stop pretending there's a mercy rule in little league, if you're way ahead in runs, you call the game early. bret: quickly, we're going the take a break. >> the convention coming up, the majority of delegates are biden people. they were chosen by his camp, ran to support him. so he would have to withdraw. but not as president because, as kellyanne suggests, he withdrew as president, she -- she becomes president harris and could run as an incumbent. democrats don't want that. so what would have to happen is biden deliberate his delegates, seven out his term, step aside at the end of the term and let the party then, people by biden delegates deal with the race that would then ensue among -- >> at the convention. he will not accept the

nomination and let a race ensue. >> exactly right. not accept the nomination. serve out his term but not be renominated. and they'd have to talk him into doing it. and, look, think how tempting it must have been for him or it should have been for him to say i served a term, i defeated donald trump. i'm going to go back to delawar- bret: why do you think that didn't happen? >> because of her. >> because that's the way -- that's joe biden. stubborn, proud and in the end, i think, foolish. knox next. bret: we're going to take a break. march a march we're just getting started on this very pivotal night of the 2024 campaign. we all thought it was going to be pivotal. we didn't know exactly in what way, but now we do. our coverage continues in 60 seconds. >> they said he was the worst in all of american history. that's a fact. that's not conjecture. >> if he wins this election, our country doesn't have a chance, not even a chance of coming out of this rut. we probably won't have a country

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ibm. let's create. >> 24, 5 percent, either one of those names -- numbers, we'd be able to wipe out his debt, help make sure all those things we need to do, childcare, elder care, making sure we strengthen our health care system, making sure that a we're able to make every single, solitary person eligible for what i've been able to do with, with the covid -- excuse me, with dealing with everything we have to do with -- look, if we finally beat medicare -- >> thank you, president biden. [laughter] bret: i mean, after one of those sound bites, former president trump said i'm not sure what he just said, i don't think he knows what he just said.

that was a moment, a viral moment. there were a number of them. there were some heated exchanges. back with the panel. jessie, digesting it all. >> i don't know what everyone's talking about, i thought joe did a great job. [laughter] and i think the democrats should absolutely keep him as the nominee and run him against donald trump. it's going to work out fine. something happened tonight which i never thought could possibly happen. it was so bad for joe biden that i felt bad for him. i didn't think i was capable of feeling empathy for joe biden, but that's how bad it was. and this is because they've hidden him? that's why expectations. >> that's when even is paying

attention. everybody was in shock by his ash aen face and his hollow voice, and then at minute 13, he just completely falls apart

>> you never fired anybody on the border, you never fired anybody on afghanistan. joe biden looked so weak at that moment. and then, line of the night, i've seen your swing, you're not a 6 handicap. [laughter] and then trump actually became the bigger man and said let's not argue like children. you know, trump did not have a perfect night, but it was an 8 out of 10, and joe biden fell apart. bret: karl rove, your thoughts here. it's a big night. >> well, i spoke at the reagan institute event, annual meeting in california today, and i was asked the question about what would happen if biden had a bad night. and he had a bad night. advantage-jawed, glass city-eyed, mangled his thoughts and ideas, lost his train of thought. looked down because he didn't have the confidence to hook at

his opponent while he was speaking, seemed disengaged. this was a terrible night, and this will be a revolt, i think, on the part of the democratic party and in the remarks and the answer i gave to the question, i said if he has a bad night, democrats are going to end up nominating somebody different in august because they do not want to to go to certain defeat, and that happened tonight. bret: speaking of that, van jones on cnn, we are still far from our convention, and there is time to figure out a different way forward if he will allow us to do that. martha: the big question is whether or not they can bypass kamala harris. bret: karl, thank you. thank you for joiningings us. sean hannity is next live from the spin room in atlanta. it has been an historic night. martha: stay tuned for sean hannity next