small cap is necessarily sustainable. by owning an equal weighted index you are actually getting the large cap companies again by definition equal slices. that is what we prioritize, it actually acted pretty well relative to the last couple of days. actually think that real estate has been a surprising area that acted pretty good as well. not new news that there are challenges in the office market but again if this were a really significant growth scare, liz, we expect real estate, expect credit to really suffer. that has not been the case. that says to us the probability of aing chaing downturn have certainly increased but we think this is more of a gradual slowdown as opposed to growth scare in the current environment. liz: dan, eric, great to have you. here comes the bells, folks. important note here, the vix. [closing bell rings] topping 60. it is at 65 in more than four years. the dow wipes out more than 1000 points. the nasdaq down 3 1/2%. we will see you tomorrow.

♪. larry: hello, folks, welcome to "kudlow," i'm larry kudlow. markets crashing today, kind of deep doo-doo for the third straight trading day. are we at the front end of a recession? well our very own charles payne and taylor riggs will help us out in a minute. first up our own hilary vaughn standing by at the white house with all the latest. hey, hilary, how are your indexes doing today? [laughter] >> reporter: i purposely not been looking. larry: good, good. >> reporter: here at the white house if you would think that friday's jobs report, bad jobs report was a nightmare for the biden-harris white house you would be wrong because the biden-harris economic team insists that what they're doing is working. so they're going to keep it. >> is there anything that the administration will do differently now to work on it? >> you know, we, it's not a change in course but it is a, you know, continued commitment

to the course we've been on. >> are we in a recession? >> we're definitely not in a recession. >> reporter: but we could be on the brink of a recession. economists at goldman sachs think that is more likely today than it was before, raising the odds of that happening from 15% to 25%. we tried to ask president biden here at the white house if he is worried about it but he didn't stop to talk. [shouting] are you worried about a recession? [shouting questions] are you worried about a recession? the trump campaign says this market meltdown we're seeing right now could have been prevented but instead the biden-harris economic policies have caused it. >> a lot of their economic policies were predicted even by economists on the left to lead

exactly where they are now. they went ahead with it as kamala harris has said she is a radical who didn't listen to common sense. >> reporter: the harris campaign doesn't seem to have any regrets how they handled the economy. in fact they're drafting some people from biden's white house economic team. white house economic advisor gene sperl something moving over to the harris campaign. a sign they're not throwing out the "bidenomics" playbook. in fact they're keeping it for another four years, larry. larry: i can't wait for that, four more years. let's get the latest on today's major market selloff. our own kelly o'grady is here with more on that. kelly what you got? >> reporter: red larry, unfortunately. there is a lot of uncertainty, questions are we entering a recession or is this more of a market recession. look where the indexes finished today. dow down 1000, s&p down 70. the dow really did take more of

a turn t came back a little bit but that is pretty close to where it was at the lowest point. i also want to take a look at big tech here. again, all red. you had really nvidia is the one to point out here down over 6%, but also alphabet down fivers. they were beneficiaries with inflows with the a.i. hype. look this selloff is more of a correction. these valuations were already too big. so we're seeing some profit-taking. another line of thought if we are indeed approaching a recession you move away from these type of growth stocks. now another area getting clobbered, larry, crypto. bitcoin actually fell below 50,000 at one point today. over 500 billion in value has been wiped out in the space in the last 24 hours. a lot of folks are taking their money out of the riskier assets with this overall volatility. zooming out the selloff is not discuss happening in the u.s. the global markets are reeling. japanese nikkei went down 12%

that is the worst day it saw since 1987. cryptocurrencies shedding a bunch. the last thing i want to share with you, larry, i were investors are a concern a flight to safer assets we're seeing. so we finished off the session lows. it is too early to determine if this recession fear is real, larry. larry: we'll track it, thanks, kelly o'grady. folks, recession risk grows larger, stocks get be color beard. that is the subject of the riff. ♪ re, recession risk larger, stocks getting clobbered. investors who were irrationally exuberant a few weeks ago are running for the hills. the stocks getting clobbered with the dow down 2,000 points in the last three trading days. there may also be politics in this story, as chameleon kamala harris polling better than joe biden was. that is a low bar, no matter what she says we do know she hates business. the real meat and potatoes of the market slamdown, rising unemployment, coupled with

falling consumer sentiment and overall recession like weakening of the economy. the data are incomplete. but without question, a nearly 1% point rise in the unemployment rate this year strongly suggests the economy is on the front end of a recession. just last month 352,000 people joined the unemployment lines and actually over the past year, the number of unemployed has risen 1.3 million. the jump to 4.3% in the last four months is worrisome for unemployment, even broader measure of labor market weakness, so-called labor i am parity rate or underemployment rate, that has leapfrogged to 7.8%. that includes part-timers who want full-time work, plus discouraged workers who left the workforce. that's the soft underbelly of the biden-harris labor market. meanwhile over the last year biden-harris policies have led to half a million more part-time

workers and an actual negative half million drop in full-time workers. plus their catastrophic open border policies have led to an increase of 1.3 million foreign-born workers and a 1.2 million decline in native-born. in other words, it has been a far shakier economy than most of the media has ever been willing to admit and let's not forget a recession nary first half of 2022 when real gdp fell two consecutive quarters mostly from inflation stock. so much of this can be traced to the affordability crisis where biden-harris consumer price index gone up 20% over their full term. hourly wages have risen only 17%. in other words for 3 1/2 years plus typical families, typical working folks of all different stripes have suffered a pay cut, what ronald reagan used to call

take-home pay. their taxes have gone up, not down. it is too expensive for them to live in the biden-harris economy. biden-harris fiscal economy has spent and borrowed like there is no tomorrow. other recessionary indicators, plunging home building and sales, even weaker consumer spending continued declines in factory surveys. so stock markets hate recessions because recessions drive down profits and profits are the mother's milk of stocks and the lifeblood of the economy. as recession fears rise everyone is blaming the fed, sure. but the fed has been pumping in money ever since the financial meltdown in 2008 and wall street has always loved easy money, haven't they? and technically investors sentiment way too high. that set up a bear market on top of the weak economy and technically the 20 trillion dollar-yen carry trade where investors on wall street and tokyo borrowed ultracheap yen to invest in the so-called

magnificent tech stocks, well that trade has come to an end. so with 92 days before the presidential election the question is, who do you trust to pilot the american economy out of the danger zone? no matter how many times kamala harris tries to cover up her radical policies she is still a big government socialism who hates business. she will continue the biden-harris war on fossil fuels and big government socialism. all right? it's anti-business no matter how large or small. mr. trump, on the other hand, well he is the pro-business guy and he understands you can't have employment without employers. so if you are worried about a economic or stock market meltdown, who are you going to trust? my, i'm taking the business guy. that's a shocker. joining me now, taylor riggs, co-host of "the big money show" and charles payne, host of "making money" right here on fox business. thank you, kids.

so i got a little bit off my chest. >> good. larry: charles, what do you think? >> good for you. larry: what do you think about all this? >> yeah, i agree. all of the above. larry: there is something for everybody here. >> there is something for everybody. you know it's, you started off talking about about powell is taking the blame. obviously he didn't stoke inflation. there has been easy money. everyone hopes jay powell can come to the rescue. he is between a rock and a hard place. he has almost an impossible job. the fiscal side of this government keeps pumping in all kinds of cash. making his job virtually impossible. the other part of this, all the selloff, the most fascinating part is the small caps, right? in july, when president trump had a dominating lead over president biden small caps went crazy. you know there was that one session where we had never seen four standard deviations. the most of any index had ever

been above its 50-day moving average in the history of the market going back to 1900 with the dow, 1928 with the s&p, 1971 with the nasdaq. we have never seen an index take off like that and it has given it all back. that right this is proxy for at least how investors feel about a harris presidency. larry: no, i think that's fair. taylor riggs, let's face it recessions will breed falling profit. >> yes. larry: profits are the mother's milk of stocks, i said it many times over 40 years. it is the enemy. you can talk about the fed until you're blue in the face. all the business shows, fed do this, fed do that, fed do this, fed do that. charles is right. they're in rock and hard place. you're spending $6 trillion, borrowing, debt finance at the short end, it is crazy. the reality a recession will hurt stocks, i don't care what the fed does on interest rates they cannot prevent a recession in the next year i think therein lies the problem. >> there within the market, thursday, friday, certainly

today we woke up we say the market is not the economy, but i think today we're finally pricing in what a slowing economy or a recession actually looks like within the markets. larry: yes. >> we had a huge runup, some of these big tech stocks were up 30, 40% year-to-date. how are we now recalibrating when the data changes? i think with the labor report on friday, we're all sitting back saying is this healthy correction? healthy connections in the market are good. they should happen every 18 months to wipe out extra froth in the market or is this sort of a recessionary idea that's coming? and like you said in a recession you will have profits that are slowing or negative. maybe you get the negative profit, no profit. so all of that i think is the market trying to figure out what we living in, what is this? larry: well, charles, i'm going to argue it has been a shaky, shakier economy than reported for several years now, almost a full term, because of the level

of consumer prices beating wages. that is one point but i think, working folks in the middle, the typical families. >> right. larry: hard-hats people work with their hands, not on wall street, silicon valley, aye saying in a sense what we used to call middle america, they had trouble affording this economy for several years and these chickens are coming home to roost. >> they are coming home to roost and listen you go back to that $1.9 trillion so-called covid relief package. larry: right. >> that was it. that was the tipping point. that was modern monetary theory. larry: yes. >> that was the notion you could print as much money as possible. i told people we come a long way from a chicken in every pot. this is crazy. ironically it is benefiting, it will benefit the top 1%. look at warren buffett's portfolio. imagine one of the richest men in the world, all he invests in now is treasurys. while he gets to take billions in treasury gains the average person watching show, watch

credit card interest rates go from 15% to 23%. delinquencies are going through the roof. it will only get a lot worse. it has been one of these things where it boggles my mind when i see anyone in the bottom 80% of this economy thinking they would want to vote for vice president harris. we have seen a shifting of the guards. officially now, the biden presidency has officially ushered in a new democratic party of the elites and college elites and wealthiest people in this country. everyone else is suffering mightily. larry: i think so. i think it has been the soft underbelly for 3 1/2 years. you know people forget, i don't want to dwell on the past but the reality is, the first half of the 2022 inflation shock caused a two quarter downturn in gdp. >> yeah. larry: there was a bump from the spending charles is describing. but that bum was, you know what it is? you were saying a chicken in every pot which i love. it is an ev in every rich pot,

every rich person's -- >> while we're at it we will pay your college loans. while we're at it, earned income tax credit initially designed for poor working families. larry: we're a long from that. 20 seconds the yen carry trade has fallen apart, right? >> oh. larry: too technical. >> too technical, the fact, it was $20 trillion worth just went down the drain. >> when the yen is weak, easy to borrow that to buy the mag-7. the yen is strong, japanese currency. you're caught on the wrong side of that trade. you have to sell equities to close out that position. neil: i knew that working on the other business show. >> the other technical things about global growth if u.s. sneezes does the rest of the world catch a cold? larry: think about china. front page of "the wall street journal" today, bad consumer spending in the u.s. and china. now that could have played a little weanie role in this. >> you heard it from every

multinational. heard from mcdonald's saying it is the u.s. consumer but we're also worried about the chinese consumer. starbucks saying the same thing. this is the global consumer we're figuring out no longer spending what we were a year ago. larry: and i just, i want to conclude the technical part of this show, okay? >> okay. larry: the fed can drop rates this month, next month, the month after. that is not going to impact the economy in any serious way for at least a year. the fed can't bail us out. the fed cannot bail out the mistakes of the past, it can't. not going to do it. they can bail out the market from a total collapse. >> yes. larry: i hope we don't have frankly, but the fed, don't look at the fed. look at fiscal policy. look at the spending and borrowing. look at the middle class suffering. the middle class is underwater for 3 1/2 years. we never seen anything like it. >> heartbreaking. larry: heartbreaking. >> when the fed cuts does it reignite inflation? on the fiscal side they're spending so much.

larry: who does that help the fed when it cuts so much? does not help the lower, middle income classes. it is a different game. charles payne, taylor riggs. charles on making money 2:00 p.m. eastern. what is the name. book? charles, you tell us. >> "unbreakable investor." larry: i sold it, i sold it on the radio forever. so it is great stuff. taylor is the bottom line, is that the name of it, brian brenberg. >> big money show. larry: big money show. god help me. brien brenberg, jackie deangelis "the big money show" on fox business. i know you're both working overtime. i appreciate it. >> anything for you, larry. larry: coming up on "kudlow," why is joe biden appeasing iran instead of deterring them? it's like i got your home phone number, i know what your home address is also, that is the best deterrent. congressman mike waltz to weigh in. later in the show we'll have steve moore, we'll have art laffer and we'll have steve forbes pus sell over this stock

market crack up. catch "kudlow" monday through friday 4:00 p.m. on fox biz, fabulous fox biz that is. if for some reason you can't make it at 4:00, text your favorite nine-year-old and she will show you how to dvr the show. you will never miss a market selloff. hate to say it. [laughter]. thank you, kids, appreciate it. choose advil liqui-gels for faster, stronger and longer-lasting relief than tylenol rapid release gels. because advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. so for faster pain relief, advil the pain away.

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larry: the biden administration worried about a potential iranian strike an israel. fox business's peter doocy the latest from the white house briefing, what did they say, peter? >> reporter: we would love it from a white house briefing today, larry. no reason there should be one with everything going on. there is not. we're trying to piece things together, we know from what we've been told president biden and vice president harris spent a good amount of the afternoon in the white house situation room from spy believeses what iran is planning. the meeting had to wait until what you're looking at now, president biden came home from delaware where he spent the weekend. he has 4,000 sailors, soldiers, marines repositioned in the middle east trying to help israel and they're just trying

to follow the ayatollah's lead. >> we have to make sharpdarn sure we're ready and have capability to defend ourselves and israel's and our own national security. >> reporter: on a biden call with the leader of jordan talked about efforts to escalate tensions including immediate cease-fire and hostage release deal. in delaware the president is not sure what will happen next. >> mr. president? do you think iran will stand down? president what. >> do you think iran will stand down sir? president biden: i hope so. we don't know. >> reporter: and he doesn't have anything else on the schedule for the rest of the day on the public schedule but we did just watch as vice president harris' motorcade left the white house campus. we believe this meeting has wrapped up and she is back to the naval observatory where she

can whittle down the vp short list. larry. larry: peter, quickly, you may not know this yet, no one may know this, mentioning all the american droops -- troops on alert, are they thinking about using those troops in any kind of iranian attack? is there that thought out there? >> reporter: no, seems like anything she is troops would be doing, knowing what they know about the training what they would be doing in the last couple months it would be defensive to help israel fend off or beat back an iranian attack. but there is no, no belief these guys and gals are being sent there to fight in iran or anything like that. larry: thanks, peter doocey, white house lawn, we appreciate it as always. joining us now for some commentary on this florida congressman mike waltz, himself a retired green beret. mike, thank you very much. you know i was just watching peter doocy's report. can we stop iran? he says i don't know, i hope so.

it just has the feeling of appeasement and we're sort of lost what our policy is and thank goodness for israel but how do you see this right now? >> you know, larry, i will take everybody back to the schoolyard and biden and harris and blinken and sullivan, they're like the kids that got picked on by the bully and their response was to find more lunch money for the bully. if i give you just my fruit roleup in addition to my lunch money, hey buddy, give them your hand sandwich on top of it maybe the bully will be nice. donald trump, you have to punch the bully in the mouth. you have to sometimes escalate to get the bully to de-escalate. i remind everyone harris thought taking out soleimani was a bad idea. going back 10 years ago, even further, biden opposed obama taking out usama bin laden.

it shouldn't surprise everyone, their reflexive reaction find more concessions if we appease a little better, appease a little better, maybe everybody will be nice to america and its allies and it is so dangerous and their bad decisions and bad management, and bad judgment i fire in the next 48 hours will get more people killed. larry: congressman, mike waltz, you talk about appeasement versus a real deterrent policy, i think mr. trump and the israelis for that matter, the way i put it very simply and crudely is, to the mullahs and all the leaders of iran and hamas and hezbollah, we've got your phone number and we know your home address. >> that's right. larry: and if you take -- just like this incredible, you know, is ail took out the hamas commander, i mean in the middle of tehran for heaven's sakes. it is right out of a spy novel but it is real time and that send as deterrent message i would think, but if nothing else

we need that. heck, they won't even, mike waltz, they won't even go back to the total sanctions on iran and stop them from making so much money on selling oil. >> no. larry: they won't even do that the bidens. >> larry, here is what you walk out of the white house situation room and do, what i know president trump would do, you unleash american oil and gas. you drive down prices around the world. you put both putin's and iran's economy on the back foot. you pass secondary sanctions on chinese buyers, brokers and shippers, which the house passed has been sitting on schumer's desk now for months and you say, a single missile drops on an single israeli head and all hell will break loose on you ayatollahs. that is not warmongering. that is keeping the peace through demonstrated strength. but you know the big winner in all of this, yes it is ayatollahs, really china. all of those forces that were once again rolling into the middle east, that aircraft

carrier was diverted from the pacific. these missiles we're using to shoot down 50,000-dollar drowns with five million dollar missiles. those are ones we need in the pacific, we don't have he many of in the first place. china gets cheap oil and gets to watch the u.s. chase its tail in the middle east yet again. this is not only dangerous now, it is dangerous for the next generation and god help us if we have eight more years of this appeasement strategy with kamala harris. i just can't even wrap my behind behind my mind around how that dangerous that is. larry: we get it. mike waltz, appreciate your thoughts and wisdom. talk soon. folks coming up we gave you the market experts. now we'll talk to the economic philosophers, the best of the best what is going on. we have art laffer, steve moore, steve forbes next up. remember, "kudlow" is available as a podcast, episodes every weekday right after our show. guest this we're on spotify and

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>> if you got a big downturn coming, stocks, economy, both, who do you trust? do you trust the business guy or the anti-business guy? huh? joining us now to talk about that, art laffer former reagan economist, steve moore, committee to unleash prosperity hotline, "moore money" wabc radio, steve forbes, media chairman, editor-in-chief forbes and. steve, i want to start with you, you're a market guy and philosopher, you can swing both ways. who will you trust? if this thing collapses, i don't know if it will collapse. we're on the front end of a recession and on the front end could be a bear market. who do you want, do you want the business person or the

anti-business person? >> well i don't want the person who brought to you the crash, that's what i really don't want, larry and these people brought you to the crash with bad policies. you know it happens to be the anti-business people. they weren't any good. they're no different than hoover in my mind, slightly less damaging but the same type of policies and they're no good for the economy. i would trust trump every day of the week and twice on sunday for bringing as you good economy. larry: steve forbes, why is that crackup cracking up? >> i think it is realization one, could win, maybe she will, market has to put that in. japan is in trouble, way over debt, worse than ours. that market you saw 12% down yesterday. realizing i think that dragged everything else down. the realization that rest of the world is in poor economic shape and where are the growth prospects coming from? larry: where are they coming from. >> has to come from the u.s. larry: let's pause on this, the

word growth does not enter into the lexicon of mr. biden or ms. harris. you never hear that. trump at the convention talked endlessly about growth and growth, tax cuts and tax cuts, growth and growth. he is the only guy on the world stage i think, much less the, you know, the political stage hire in the states who talks the language of growth. >> well that's true and also put in the policies of growth, i.e., cut taxes and this is were the danger comes in. if kamala harris got in, she doesn't need congress. she has the regulatory state behind her. they have demonstrated with college debt and the like, they will go do what they want, heck with the courts, what the courts say. we'll have an avalanche of regulation. we won't get rid of the stuff that has been put down our throats now. that will really bear down on the economy. we're in for a real big downturn. if we're down the world is down. we have to lead the world out of it just as we in the 1980s with ronald reagan, pro-growth

policies. also they got to start paying attention to the federal reserve. get over this idea you have to depress the economy to conquer inflation. no, just remove regulations, have a stable dollar, cut taxes, by golly, good things will happen. larry: cutting interest rates will not be the solution toe anything. that could reinflate if anything. >> keep a stable dollar. larry: stable dollar. steve moore, you're a long time editorial writer for "the wall street journal," okay? you know what's coming here. so today, i just want to ask you, today, our friends they're very good friends of ours, okay, they come out against trump's idea of reducing the social security benefits tax which could be indexed to inflation. it hasn't been in 40 years. the threshold was $25,000, with a bum up to 35,000. that has not been changed, if you did change that, the new basis for inflation today, would be $80,000, okay? which would be a nice middle class tax cut, and would reduce

the overall tax burden on retirees so they would go out and work and produce. now how in the lord's name can that be bad? >> yeah. i like the policy and i think that, when you look at seniors who, let's say between the ages of 63 and 70, or even a little bit higher in age, you know, half of them are still working or investing and you know, we're an aging population. we would like to see people who want to continue to work stay working. that is a good way to stay healthy, by the way. and the policy today, i want to make sure your viewers understand this, i don't think anybody in washington understands it, the average tax rate on somebody who continues to work after the age of 63 or 64 collecting social security benefits can be 50 or 60, or 70%, larry. those are the highest tax rates of any worker in the american economy. we fixed a little bit of the problem under clinton when we

got rid of some of earnings tests but my feeling is this is unfair. it is unfair to seniors. i think it would be a great policy to, you know, for those again, for those who want to continue to work. let's encourage that. let's not punish them with these very high taxes. so i think the journal got it wrong day, be mindful that all of us have already paid the social security tax. >> thank you. larry: for the last 40 or 50 years and we're being asked to double tax it. i'm not going to miss with the earnings tax at this point in time. it is very complicated but the mere, the simple, look, art half per, you have written a whole book on this. the simple idea of indexing of inflation indexing a threshold, a tax threshold that hasn't been touched in 40 years, how can that be bad? the journal has turned into green eye shades. they are completely wrong on this. these things would benefit.

welfare improve -- psyche improve. i don't know, everybody, no, three out of the four of the people on this segment are, shall we say senior citizens how is that? one at least over 80. i got a couple in their 70s. >> i'm 64 now. larry: i got one high schoolkid who is only 64 years old. but arthur, i think, the bigger point i'm making is, trump's the business guy. i think at this point in time in history we need a business person at the helm. that is really what i'm asking, art laffer. >> we do. i wish, i wish he had chosen steve forbes as his running mate to be honest with you. steve, i loved your opening comment. larry: now you're cooking. >> we need to index tax rates. lower tax rates on working output and employment and continue the trump agenda of business first. you know what he did on the tax cuts and jobs act is second to

nothing in history. i mean he cut those tax rates from 35 to 21. he cut the personal income tax. we need more and more and more of that. what we need to do is bring people off the sidelines, back into the labor force. we need to get this country growing and going again and in the interrim there, we need to treat seniors, especially people over 80 years old, say moi, we need to treat them really nicely. you guys be polite and sweet to me all the time, yes, sir, no, sir, thank you, ma'am. we need to treat seniors correctly. trump knows how to do it. he is a senior by the way. i don't think kamala harris. there you go. i treat a senior -- larry: 80 is the new 60. 80 is the new 60 or at least we can hope about that, but steve forbes -- >> many ways guys i'm younger than all of you just for the record. just for the record. larry: we got one high schoolkid on the segment, i don't know what to do with him. steve forbes, i don't think it is unfair, maybe it is, but i

said in my opening i have that kamala harris is anti-business. i think she hates business. i think joe biden hates business. maybe i'm not 100% right but i've seen nothing in their policies over the past 3 1/2 years to suggest that they like business or, understand the central role of business in our economy. remember, our old friend the late great, jack kemp used to say. democrats love employment. they just don't like the employers who create the jobs. that to me is still the democratic mantra or worse. >> yeah. they take business for granted. somehow everything is going to be done. like you go to the grocery store you discuss assume everything is there. up no idea how it gets there, who produces makes it all happen they have no appreciation for it. see it as bunch scoundrels to be fleeced for their old programs. i hope the new congress hopefully republican get rid of

crazy rules, go through the exercise you had to go through the 2017 tax cut, 10 years, eight years, all that kind of stuff, scoring that has no real world relevance. we get a good clean tax cut. you will see as we had in the '60s and 1980s, being great again f we're doing great, the rest of the world will follow our example just as it did in the 1980s, that is a really important point. steve moore, why do you think the stock market went down so much the last three days? do you believe it is a recession threat, unemployment rate is pointing towards recession? recessions breed profits, profits are the mother's milk of stocks? i mean do you buy that? >> i'm not going to say recession because all the economists were wrong -- larry: i said recession threat, recession threat. >> yeah. so but i would say this, that trump tweeted out today or should say, truth social that this was the kamala crash. look i think there is a bit of truth to that, larry. 10, 12 days ago trump had about

a 12 point lead and now it is down to about a one point lead because of this, something i never seen before in my 30 years of following politics where they treat kamala harris like she is mother teresa in the press but i think that you know, look, it gets to your point, kamala harris is bad for business. she is bad for investors. she is bad for the stock market. i think there is a little bit of convulsion among investors who are getting very nervous about the prospect of this woman could actually be president. i don't think it will be happen. i'm a little younger than my friend arthur laffer because i don't really remember the herbert hoover regime. larry: oh, god. that's right. >> i know arthur was there [laughter] larry: nancy pelosi says joe biden should be on mount rushmore, okay? let's leave it at that. art laffer, you've been giving market advice for a long time in your newsletters and your business. what advice would you -- give right now.

>> right now to answer the question about trump versus kamala harris, trump has actually written checks that other people have received. larry: right. >> kamala harris only arif sieved checks that other people have written. she has never been in a entrepreneurial position. she has negative relied on markets. she is on wend of checks, not writing checks for employees an employers. my view is completely correct. i think it is the rise of kamala harris scared the heck out of people. they're now reassessing the market prospects of the possibility of a harris ticket. that is really what you're seeing. steve is right on that. larry: all right. steve's right on that. we'll end on that note. steve's right on that. we found something. steve moore, thank you. art laffer, steve forbes, we appreciate it very, very much. next up, folks, let me ask again through the political experts if you will have a economic crackup, who do you trust as your president, the business guy or the big government socialist? we'll ask rich lowery tudor

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larry: got our political experts. similar question in an economic

crackup who do you trust as president, the business guy or the big government socialist, hint hint? joining us on set rich lowery, editor-in-chief of "the national review," tudor dixon, former michigan gubernatorial candidate. host of the tudor dixon podcast. i'm told on "gutfeld" tonight. we're the warmup for all of that. tudor, who do you trust the business guy or the woman? maybe i'm unfair, said same thing, we had all the famous economic philosophers on the last segment, i argued in my riff at the opening of the show that miss harris hates business and you will say this again, if i'm wrong, i will apologize but fact is every policy they have had, and everything she's talked about in recent years including her chameleon routine, they don't like business, okay? maybe you should have used the phase don't like business but they're not for business. so this is a business collapse and we need someone that understands that. >> absolutely. it is very hard for the american people to know who is better right now because they know

nothing about kamala harris. she is great concealing who she is. that is our job to focus on the fact she will crush business with climate policies. she will come in, she already said she will shut down fracking. what does that mean for the country? means very bad things. we're seeing that happening today. she is not coming out saying anything, she is essentially the stand-in president. we have not heard her talk since we had a crisis in the stock market. larry: when will she talk about anything about this stuff? only thing i saw on friday, unemployment shot up again, put out a press release from the campaign, not her, from the campaign, donald trump was to blame for the july 2024 hike in unemployment. a little bit of a reach wouldn't you say? >> this is the most extraordinary days in politics. many things happened. she ascended to presidential flom nation without any fight. haven't heard one word from her own words about it. extraordinary. one thing on the tarmac with the

hostages coming home from russia, did a word salad one sentence made no sense, doubled up upon itself. a lot of polling has changed, going back to your initial question. one thing not changed. trump had a massive lead over biden own the economy. that is still true. "cbs poll" this weekend had the race tied, who will help you most financially, 45% said trump, 25% said harris. larry: you're right. a key point. "the wall street journal" poll showed the same thing on immigration, economy and inflation, he had enormous leads on all three. >> those are the three things he should talk about. larry: rich lowery campaign manager. the guy has got a point. stay on message, right? stay on those key points. the honeymoon for kamala, the vice-presidential pick which i will ask you in a minute, mr. trump should stay on those messages. haste a great message on it. >> absolutely. that is what the people in the middle of the country want to hear. they're dying. look at michigan, we had a new change to the minimum wage. now all the restaurants

concerned they will go out of business. so many workers are like mr. trump, please tell us you will help us. that is what they want to hear. tell us you will do it. we know he will do it. help people could get through what could be a coming recession. he needs to be there for them. he needs to focus on that. other things going on all of this noise right now meaningless to people i just want to feed my babies every day. larry: yeah the business, you know, position is a middle class position, because he understands businesses create jobs. you kill the business off you are going to kill the jobs off. rich lowery, kamala's vice president candidate will be? >> josh shapiro. she would be an ini don't think not to i can him or him or mark kelly. has advantage of trump had a couple of short listers actually in swing states. shapiro if he helps by 10 how votes in pennsylvania that could make a difference. tim walls i don't get at all.

strike's me msnbc's idea folksy guy that appeals to the middle of america. i don't get that one at all. larry: i don't either. that was a great segment. rich lowery, tudor jones, great stuff. folk i will be back with my last word. ♪ a tougher kind of glove, ♪ ♪ like you never did see... ♪ ♪ now the cloth is strong ♪ ♪ stronger than the flames ♪ ♪ the flame is in the heart ♪ ♪ and the heart is in the work ♪ ♪ the work builds the life ♪ ♪ where we're safe at home... ♪ jpmorganchase invests in manufacturing to help create stronger communities. ♪ make the green grass grow all around all around ♪ ♪ make the green grass grow all around ♪ ♪ ♪ i have type 2 diabetes, but i manage it well ♪ ♪ it's a little pill with a big story to tell ♪ ♪ i take once-daily jardiance ♪ ♪ at each day's staaart ♪ ♪ as time went on, it was easy to seeee ♪ ♪ i'm lowering my a1c ♪

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it's pods biggest sale of the summer is extended. save up to 25% on moving and storage until august 12 and see why pods has been trusted with over 6 million moves. but don't wait, use promo code big25 to save. visit pods.com today. larry: so, trump knows business and business is creating good paying jobs for people all stripes and colors. this is trump's time. that's m