a date i remember well as then john roberts, the current chief justice, replaced rehnquist. initially was to replace her. her resignation came on june 30th, 2005. she had three children and six grandchildren. she passed away in arizona. she was, as chief justice roberts said, a daughter of the american southwest. an incredible woman and sad news as we just learned that sandra day o'connor has died. shannon bream, our supreme court expert probably knew her very well. shannon, thank you for jumping on the phone with us as the news has just come in.

>> shannon: she was a pioneer in so many ways. you reference her time out west and where she was from and it was such an interesting back drop to see her become the first female appointed to the supreme court. she often told the story about graduating from stanford and not being able to get a job. no law firm would hire her as a woman in the 50s and 60s. she struggled to make it in the legal profession. to think she came out of school, she found a roadblock to any kind of legal career and she decided to plow forward and ends up on the supreme court. it is a really fascinating, truly american story. she went out and campaigned to become a judge because she saw this is my avenue. she didn't win the first election. she did ultimately end up becoming a judge but another part of her interesting background is she was a lawmaker in arizona in the state senate. so she had a real appreciation for all of the different branches, for fighting her way into the legal profession.

she had a humor and humility about her that people really respected and loved that she was sort of a cowgirl at heart. she talked about those things quite a bit. after leaving the bench, which was mostly about her husband and worrying about caring for him and his illness at that time, she didn't disappear from public life. she was out there very much pushing civic education. she worried that young americans weren't getting a full understanding of how government works. their role in it. what is it about and the unique experiment that is america. so she stayed very actively involved until her own battle with dementia that sidelined her. she wanted to make sure future generations understood how special our country was and what they could do to be involved to make it work. >> dana: what are some of the big decisions that she was a part of on the supreme court?

>> well, you think about the things that people will remember about her and part of that is some of her jurisprudence on issues like abortion. she was in her time often thought of very much as a swing vote on some really critical issues on all kinds of things from abortion, she was part of bush versus gore. she was a big part of what later became seen as justice kennedy's role. there were those who were frustrated where she fell on abortion when they wanted her to be more conservative clearly on that issue. so they had really even the pro-life groups, the reagan very conservative groups had really believed in her and wanted her on the court. so when the issue of abortion came into play, that was somewhere where she broke with the right and they were very frustrated with her.

>> dana: so much of consequence here. bill hemmer is not sitting next to me but with us here, bill hemmer, a question for shannon? >> bill: a certain irony being at the reagan library in simi valley, california. you think about the history here. ronald reagan had assumed the office in january of 1981. on that day of inauguration you had all the american hostages that were released from captivity after more than 400 days in tehran. outside of that, you have to think to september later of 1981 when she is appointed to the u.s. supreme court. that was really -- these were big moments in american history and she was in the middle of all of it. reagan said when he first introduced her to the american people that she was a woman for all seasons. i don't know if you are able to reflect on that or not, but coming from arizona there is one season, right, shannon? but sandra day o'connor, she

wore so many hats and was a true american trailblazer as you look at her life today. >> shannon: really, it's always amazing to me. you look at the back stories of the supreme court justices and there are so many fascinating stories like herself like coming out of law school and not being able to find a job and having the spirit of the west, the cowgirl who was somebody who was not in washington to suck up and go to the best cocktail parties. she was seen as somebody who was down to earth, devoted to her family, very serious about her country and her commitment to what she was doing on the bench. but somebody who was seen as a lot of fun and had a great personality, a great sense of humor, but a true intellect who -- think about any firm that passed over her when she came out of stanford. rehnquist had no problem getting

hired but to think you had passed over sandra day o'connor who would become this person who broke the ultimate glass ceiling in the united states in our judiciary and that she hadn't been able to get out of the gate as a stanford graduate in the very beginning of her career. >> bill: amazing. one more point. justice roberts in his statement said this, dana, he says she met the challenge with undaunted determination, indisputable ability and engaging candor. i agree with you. it was her personality that stuck out the most to me in her early days on the court. she seemed to express this fun that she had with life, as you just pointed out. >> shannon: i do think that came from being a very down to earth person. i mentioned her background was not on this track that she immediately became a lawyer and that assumed a federal judicial bench seat. it wasn't the traditional path

that many people think of for a supreme court justice. the fact that she had -- she was knocked down many times and kept fighting and getting up. she served in the state legislature. so many things that come before the court deal with laws that have been passed at the state level. have been fought at the state level. she served as a judge and doing all those things, i think, before she got to the court gave her an appreciation for just different viewpoints on the country, on the world and the way that things function before they get to the court. it wasn't that she was always in an ivory league and ivory tower and walked onto the court. different life experiences that gave her a different perspective. that's what president reagan loved putting her on the bench, knowing she was in some ways a washington outsider and that was the kind of person he would want to put on the bench when he had that opportunity with her. >> dana: shannon, i was just

thinking how consequential her decision to resign was. on june 30th of 2005 she decided to resign. you can tell us more about her reasons for doing so. she was a very down to earth, practical person and loved her husband very much and he needed care. but you don't see too many retirements in washington anymore, right, in terms of that time. she actually had from 2006 until 2023 a little bit of time to reflect on her life and her time on the court, which then leads to john roberts nomination with two months later on the friday night before labor day of 2005, while we're in the middle of that confirmation battle for john roberts, chief justice william rehnquist passes away and then you end up with samuel alito confirmed to the court by the january of that next year.

really she put a lot of things into motion. >> shannon: things you could not have predicted. you are right, that gave us the man who has been the chief justice since then. think about his impact on the court. she thought he was a very good choice because he had argued a number of cases before the court. when she heard it looked like he would be her replacement she was very supportive of the fact that he had the intellectual rigor and skills and everything he would need to be a good justice, but then all those dominoes fall. the passing of justice rehnquist and very quickly you know well the bush administration had to then work on two confirmations giving us both chief justice roberts, justice alito and she could have never known when she decided my husband needs me, i need to spend time with him and walk him through his illness and be with him, that it would trigger all those other things. as you said giving up a supreme court seat in modern times is

highly unusual. we have the pressure on justice ginsburg and she stayed to the end and said this is my life's work, i'm not leaving. it was momentous when justice o'connor who made history as the first woman said now the time my husband needs me and i will now fulfill what is, i believe, a joint of privilege in going to him but making the history books in a new way with all the things that came after. >> dana: you are talking about her as a pioneer and as this woman who had pushed forward and found a way to do what she wanted to do even though a lot of opportunities were closed to her. so she is appointed in 1981. i was nine years old and there is a saying in mentoring circles that you have to see her to be her. and to be able to see ronald reagan who i revered and he

appoints sandra day o'connor. there was a lot happening at that time for women and also, bill, as i turn it back over to you, she was there for the very consequential decision that the supreme court made in the florida recount. >> bill: sure was. we have a lot of 5/4 decisions back then. jonathan turley joins us and so does bret baier as we bring in our conversation. i was looking over the resume. completed law school in two years. not common to do it back then. you think about the cruel irony here. she went through life and she succeeded at life because of the brilliance of her own brain and to think that she suffered from dementia for several years and ultimately perhaps from alzheimer's based on the statement we're seeing here such a cruel irony there to think that is your fate while you are

within this earthen vessel among all of us, all 6 billion of us on this planet. let's get a quick reflection now. jonathan turley, thank you for your time today, sir. what comes to mind for you when you think of the historical nomination and appointment on first woman on the supreme court and now the passing of sandra day o'connor? >> it is the end of an extraordinary legacy for sandra day o'connor. for many years for those of us covering the court, it was a court of one as you just referenced. there was a long series of 5/4 decisions. she was the fifth vote. many of us wrote at the time that covering the court meant debating where sandra day o'connor was on the death penalty. abortion, etc. she was a voice of moderation. she had this innate sense of what was right and what was needed for a democratic society.

and that often took her to both ends of the political philosophical spectrum on the court. this is not one of her most famous cases but her dissent in atwater that involved police powers to arrest someone for misdemeanors. everyone will be citing her opinions on abortion and affirmative action. i really think of her dissent in atwater that she showed this incredible sensitivity and empathy for people who were subject to arrest to be stopped by the police. and it was the type of realism that came out in all of her opinions. this was a woman who was raised in arizona miles away from the nearest paved road. this was a true rural child of the american rural areas. and she had a practicality about

her. she also had an elegance about her. i was critical of some of her decisions but when i spoke to her, i must tell you, you could not but be enamored by sandra day o'connor. she had this rough elegance that comes with someone who knows herself, who was raised in this area and she brought that confidence to the court in her opinions. >> bill: thank you, professor. want to bring in bret baier as well. good morning to you. just your initial reaction to the news on the passing of sandra day o'connor. >> you know, she was a trailblazer. obviously the first woman to serve on the u.s. supreme court. you have to look back at her time in arizona. she was an arizona appellate court judge in the court of appeals in maricopa county as a judge. before that, she was the first serving female majority leader

of the state senate as the republican leader in the arizona state senate. she was always a trailblazer. i just know from my writing and study of ronald reagan that he was really proud of that nomination. and in 1981, he makes this nomination but he calls her the day before the announcement. she didn't know she was a finalist. she writes in his diary about that. he says called judge o'connor, told her she was my nominee for supreme court. already the flak is starting and from my own supporters. right to life people say she is pro-abortion. she declares abortion is personally repugnant to her. i think she will make a good justice. she was a trailblazer all her life. reagan had a lot of confidence in his nomination and she turned out to be one of the most consequential justices there. another little interesting thing

is that she succeeded henry kissinger as the chancellor of college of william and mary after retiring from the court. obviously we just said goodbye to henry kissinger a couple days ago. >> bill: great history. thank you, bret. and jonathan turley, thanks to you as well. wow. the life of sandra day o'connor remembered today and her first book was called "out of order." i think she would have liked that title, right? out of order fits the personality. she came out with her biography about four years ago called "first" and we remember her life and legacy today. >> dana: truly, the role model she was for women everywhere especially younger girls who were like wow, we could do that, too? now look at the court. pretty incredible to be the first and if you look at a lot of these pictures we're showing, she was a strong woman but also

a happy person. she loved her life and she lived a life of great consequence. it has been an honor to be able to have some comments on her today as we now get back to some of our other news and you are at the reagan library and we'll get a little more into that and to why are you there, bill hemmer? >> bill: the irony is when you reflect on reagan and how consequential he was for american history to this day and beyond. sandra day o'connor is another example of that. we're here for the reagan defense forum happening every year the first weekend in december. starts later today and all day saturday. trying to bring some of the best minds in america together to try to figure out where we are in the world and where we go next. and how best does america make these decisions? remember peace through strength. it means a lot of things right now in today's world whether it's ukraine, middle east, china, taiwan. we'll go through all that over

the weekend here and you will see that beautiful boeing 707 behind me. it will be displayed masterly as the centerpiece of this fantastic library. >> dana: even tyrus couldn't move it. >> bill: right. i saw that. listen, we have a sunrise in southern california. it is beautiful to see. there is other news to get to. why don't we do that now? here we go. >> dana: right now we are awaiting for the house vote on whether to expel congressman george santos. house speaker mike johnson saying a short time ago he plans to vote against the expulsion of george santos. the new york republican earlier on "fox & friends" saying if he is expelled it will set a dangerous precedent. >> i will be the first person to get expelled from congress without a conviction or without committing treason. that's a dangerous new

precedent. >> dana: the vote will begin possibly later this hour. chad pergram ahead with an update live from the capitol. >> israel will finish the job here. hamas has to be destroyed not only for its rail but american. you can run but you can't hide from terrorists. >> bill: robert o'brien last hour. former national security advisor for president trump as fighting resumes the gaza. the cease-fire is no more. it's off, the truce is over. israel says that hamas has not stuck to the terms of that cease-fire. they are now urging people in parts of southern gaza to leave their homes there and move to other areas for their own safety. remember that was the call about a month ago from northern gaza. the talks to restart the cease-fire are underway in qatar. see where they go. whether or not they have any success. night has fallen in israel. greg palkot is near the gaza

strip. what is the moment and headline for the moment now? >> well, bill, after a week-long cease-fire between israel and hamas, we can confirm firsthand the war is definitely back on as the sun sets here, we have gaza strip about a mile behind us. all day we've been seeing and hearing israeli air strikes and israeli artillery hits. we've also been witnessing hamas rockets coming from there over this town and knocked down and hearing a lot of gunfire, signs of clashes nearby. hardest hit today the southern part of gaza. it is believed hamas leadership moved down there and clearly israel has them in its sights triggering the new fighting after the 100 hostages were freed in the last seven days. israel claim hamas did not have an adequate list of captives to

be released. hamas said israel wren egged on the deal. before a new cease-fire extension was supposed to go into effect hamas fired rockets. some made it through israeli defenses. it warned gaza residents to get out of the line of fire and committed to that in a visit by secretary of state blinken yesterday. gaza authorities claimed that dozens were killed today and humanitarian aid has been cut off. also cut off that encouraging flow of hostages, eight were released last night. there was a heartwarming scene of a 21-year-old back in the embrace of her family as the tales of horror the captives had to endure at the hands of hamas grow. yes, in gaza strip behind us as we hear the blast of israeli artillery there remain nearly 140 hostages, including americans. and as was confirmed today, they are at great risk.

we learned that three israelis believed to be captives, including an 86-year-old man, has, in fact, died. a life and death crisis. back to you guys. >> bill: wow. they have 130 still there and what is their fate? we'll find out in time. greg palkot. thank you in southern israel with that. thank you, greg. >> the choice for america is this. what biden, harris and newsom want to do is take the california model and do that nationally. in florida we showed the conservative principles work. this country must choose freedom over failure. >> there are profound differences tonight. i look forward to engage them. there is one thing in closing that we have in common is neither of us will be the nominee for our party in 2024. >> dana: fiery face-off last night pitting florida's republican governor ron desantis against california's democratic governor gavin newsom. joining us now joe concha and tom shillue.

great to have you here. you guys watched, i'm sure. it was the show to watch. i want to play one more here. this is desantis -- they're not on the ticket together. this is the call for number one here, watch here. this is desantis slamming california for its so-called freedoms. >> california does have freedoms that some people don't -- other states don't. you have the freedom to defecate in public in california. the freedom to pitch a tent on sun set boulevard. the freedom to create a homeless encampment under a freeway and light it on fire. it's not the freedoms founding fathers but contributed to the destruction of the quality of life in california and results speak for themselves. >> dana: i loved it. i watched everything. great that desantis and newsom agreed to do it but that sean hannity had the idea and ran it as best as he could. what did you think of the outcome?

>> if this was a fight ron desantis won because he had data and facts on his side and newsom did not. newsom said it was a lie that california is a high tax rate. you look at the numbers, right? 13.3% in california. 0 in florida. $9,000 collected state and local taxes per capita. florida is half that. corporate tax rate 60% higher in california than florida. then newsom said that florida is actually the lockdown state when it ca im to covid, not california. of course you realize that california had mask mandates as late as 2022. gavin newsom broke them on several occasions. >> dana: one of the things that newsom did when going after desantis on covid was to quote trump criticizing desantis. that's clever. >> it was. trump is using that and called him a lockdown governor. people use whatever they have. i think newsom did the democrat

playbook which is something that biden and the biden administration has been doing, it doesn't matter. the facts don't matter. go ahead and say the border is not open, it's secure. they say the opposite of reality. they smile and hope that the press does the cleanup work for them and the way democrats -- that's their look to the future. they know -- remember that famous mitt romney 47%. democrats know they have the 47% locked in. they only have to convince that little 3% in order to get past that 50% threshold. he says why don't i just smile, i got the hair gel. lie, smile and see what happens. >> dana: there was also this part where newsom attacked desantis over the pronunciation of our current vice president's name. >> by the way it's not kamala, it's kamala harris, madiam vice president to you. >> dana: interesting. everybody knows that newsom and kamala harris don't get along

that well. >> you have had gavin newsom visit the white house because he wants to replace the biden/harris ticket. it was refreshing we had the cross-party debate. largely based on policy outside of the personal stuff that we saw and sean hannity did an excellent job bringing up data and facts. it should be a model for cable news. in 2024, i hate to say this, we may not see general election debates. rnc is not happy with the debate of presidential commissions handling that and joe biden you can easily see his excuse being made saying joe biden should not be on a stage with donald trump. it's beneath him. we saw with katie hobs and kari lake in arizona. people don't want to debate like they used to. wouldn't you like to see it? >> dana: it was great sean hannity had the ability to pull it together for all of us to watch. final word, tom? >> i don't like the red

background. if i were doing a debate i don't like a red background. it looks hot. the cool blue background made -- look at him drinking water. >> dana: like it was too warm on the red side. >> tv uses the sky and what we're used to. >> dana: journalism school blue looks good on everyone and now everybody knows that, too. that means you as well with your favorite color. >> bill: everything is blue in my world. thank you, guys. and welcome back to what we believe will be the moment of truth fast approaching for george santos. lawmakers geared up to vote to give him the boot. a clear and present danger is what americans are saying about china in many different categories. military, technology, etc. the threat that beijing poses to the u.s., how you feel about it

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>> dana: fox news alert on news this morning. at the top of the hour we reported that former supreme court justice sandra day o'connor has died. she was 93 years old. she died in arizona. she was a daughter of the southwest born in el paso, texas, raised in arizona. she was the first woman to be on the supreme court. a life of great consequence and there will be much more to reflect on as we go through the day. the news just in that justice o'connor has passed away.

the house will begin voting shortly on expelling new york republican congressman george santos. the house will go down. ask congressional correspondent chad pergram. he has the latest. >> only the ninth time in hills tree the house has held an expulsion vote. th three were unsuccessful and the other five were. we'll know in santos is number things. he said differing things about his prospects today. >> i play a lotto today. >> do you believe they have the votes? he walked it back to 120. 150, 120. they need about 77 republicans. if that's the numbers they are dwelling with, i think they have it. >> santos is accused of bilking campaign donors, identity fraud and misusing credit cards. some gop members are reluctant to expel him because he hasn't

been convicted in court. 2/3 vote is needed to expel. >> i think this thing will be tight. we'll see what happens. my hope is that the wisdom of the framers will prevail once again. he is allowed his day in court like anybody else and that needs to be finished before this body decides to do something like expulsion. >> gop members want to say so long to santos, some of his colleagues from new york. the political ramifications are unclear if the gop majority fails to expel santos. >> it will vary how members look. if they vote to support expulsion but not expelled, i don't know that causes those individual members any particular harm. >> house speaker mike johnson and house majority leader steve scalise will vote against it. it's about the math. some republicans expose expulsion because it trims their

narrow majority. >> dana: we'll pay attention. chad, thank you. bill. >> bill: back live in simi valley, california, dana. look at this. we dialed that shot up for you. you remember that from your debate days here a few months ago. simi valley, california. reagan national defense forum set to begin later here. an annual survey put out by the reagan library that shows where americans stand and where they eye the potential threat facing our country. so this is the question about china, russia, iran. you see the top line there? more than half of americans believe that china is the greatest threat to the united states. that's up about 30% going back about five years ago. want to bring in david trulio and jennifer griffin are both with me here. good morning to both of you. good to see you. a couple of things i want to bring up here. you do a survey from the library

and you ask the question to americans do you consider china to be an enemy or ally? put it up here. do you see that as a strong ally, something of an ally, something of an enemy or strong enemy? look at the bottom line there. strong or something of an enemy is at 77%. i will show you another thing. how concerned are you about the possibility of the u.s. falling behind china technologically? that's almost 80%. we're in california, silicon valley is not too far from here. why do you see these numbers today? >> there has been a big increase in 2018 in how americans perceive this challenge. americans are seeing that china has undergone a huge military build-up. a lot of attention on the fact that china is engaged in an active genocide against the uighurs. they see president xi hosting vladimir putin, a man who president biden has said in engaged in war crimes. it is ominous in the bigger back drop of intellectual property theft and china's bullying

behavior in the south china sea. there is unrelenting coercion on taiwan. look what happened in hong kong with the national security law and the way they've cracked down on freedom? it is very concerning. the american people are seeing the chinese communist party for what it is. >> bill: lloyd austin will give a keynote speech saturday and follow it. when you think about the numbers on china when you report daily from the pentagon, does this align with what the u.s. military is saying, jen? >> absolutely. what's interesting. i've been coming out here for ten years. when we first started coming out here, there weren't panels that were focusing on china. it was on the middle east, counter terrorism. the other big change that has occurred in the last ten years it used to be just the defense contractors, the primes that would come out here. now all of silicon valley wants to be here. so the type of contractors and

those who build the defense and innovative technologies that will be used in the pacific and already being used in ukraine, they are here and they recognize there is almost a sense of patriotism among them and you will remember there was a time when silicon valley didn't want to do business. >> bill: you think about artificial intelligence and a.i. and how incorporated into how we fight wars. >> absolutely. the reason lloyd austin is in silicon valley today meeting with australia and u.k. counterparts because of the arrangement put together with this administration to build nuclear submarines to u.k. and australia and drones and it will rely on a.i. it is an important back drop to what is being discussed here. >> you are making a critical point how economic security is part of national security. a greater appreciation and awareness of that. industrial capacity, economy

generally, commercial technology like a.i. you will talk about a.i. and other technologies here at the defense forum. there is an increased appreciation in terms of a holistic approach to national security which is why we thrilled the commerce secretary will be here with us in addition to secretary austin. >> bill: one more thing from your survey. ronald reagan's favorability number today is at very or somewhat favorable at 65% there on the top line. is that predictable for ex-presidents? it is easy for memories to fade, right? it has been well over 30 years since president reagan left office. his legacy is so powerful not only in terms of peace through strength but freedom and democracy. he brought down the berlin wall through his actions. so we think that insuring his legacy is vibrant is reflected in the numbers and it has been. >> bill: looking forward to all the panels. jen with you and david, thank

you for being a terrific host with us. last year the most important topic here was hypersonic weapons and we were behind russia and china and we still have. but a year later you see these fires erupting all over the world. there is no shortage of topics whether it's china, the middle east, iran, or what's happening in ukraine with russia. >> look at what the pentagon has done. launched replicator to field thousands of automated drones and automated technologies. that's just in the last year since we were here at the reagan forum. that's what will be discussed here. the technologies are moving very fast and pentagon and silicon valley are trying to keep up. >> bill: we have to keep up. got no choice. thank you both. back to dana now. >> dana: super smart. george santos on the chopping block this morning. the house will soon vote on whether to expel him. ron desantis and gavin newsom

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>> bill: now will the curtain fall very soon on george santos, the republican congress member out of long island, new york. lawmakers are gearing up to vote whether or not to kick him out. the catch, out of 435 members, you need 2/3, which means you have to get to about 290 that say yay. right now you are at 204. maybe they get there. maybe they don't. last hour mike johnson the new house republican speaker said he won't vote for expulsion. i don't know how many people follow him on that. we're about to find out there. live on the hill. >> dana: interesting to see indeed. federal judge now blocking montana's first in the nation tiktok ban one month before it was set to kick in. the judge said it likely violates the first amendment. does it? gerri willis is with us for what's next in this legal battle? >> good forsee you. tiktok winning a reprieve from a

montana judge said the state law banning it can't go into effect in january because it violates free speech. he granted a preliminary injunction blocking the law passed by the montana legislature earlier this year. a spokesman for the a.g. office said this. it is a preliminary matter at this point. the judge indicated several times the analysis could change as the case proceeds and the state has the opportunity to present a full factual record. we look forward to presenting the complete legal argument. now the stakes in the montana case are high. the app owned by chain camera-based bytedance has been under intense scrutiny over years as they face accusation they share information on their 150 million users with beijing as well as the impact on the mental health of younger users. tiktok for its part has said it does not share user data with

the communist party government and did not respond today to our request for information. no other state has implemented such a ban. you can see on this map here the ones asking for a ban on government devices. of course, president biden has tried to shut tiktok down in the u.s. saying owners sell their stakes or face a possible ban. federal efforts going nowhere so far. >> dana: thanks for keeping an eye on that for us. over to you, bill. >> bill: thank you, dana. ron desantis, gavin newsom went at it last night on just about everything that sean hannity gave them. immigration is one of them. florida governor slamming newsom for promoting open borders. the governor hitting back saying saying -- it led to a few personal shots here and there. >> this is a guy that says the biden administration is not lying to the public about the border? they go to the white house briefing room every day and say

the border is secure. they are lying to you. >> i'm the only guy here that is a border state governor. you are trolling folks and trying to get migrants to get attention to out trump trump. >> bill: steve hilton is here with me in california. nice to see you. you are watching the golden state for us and keeping a good eye on it. >> i'm very engaged what's going on here. >> bill: score it last night. you as a viewer and an observer. what did you think? >> differently to most people i have to say. take it or leave it, bill. the facts are very clear. the facts are on ron desantis's side last night on every single measure. florida is doing better than california. in fact, california is doing worse not just than florida but pretty much every other state in the union. despite that, i think that desantis let newsom slip away. he called him slippery and he was. >> bill: i think he used the

word slick and used it several times. >> he let him slip away. it is not enough to have the facts on your side. you have to have the energy and the charisma and the other things that go into being a successful political candidate. what we are seeing now is the truth, that ron desantis, very effective governor. no one can argue with that. not a particularly effective candidate. newsom is terrible in terms of the record but an effective politician. >> bill: america finally had two guys come together. for the most part they were civil. not having an audience gave sean and opportunity to direct the conversation and get in between the two men when it was necessary. i think fox won last night. >> for sure. sean, amazing to pull this off and bring them together. it was a real service to the country because exactly as you say, these are two really different approaches to every single issue. the trouble is i think that

desantis could have done more to predict this is what newsom does. he tries to blow past the facts. blow past the record. i think that actually you have got to pin him down and explain to the country why this failure is so complete. >> bill: i would like to see it again. round two and maybe at some point we get it. you keep very careful track of how european governments are voting and how they are moving. we have seen movements now, especially in holland, okay, marine la penn talking about the new winner in holland. the success of our friend wilders is not a chance. it is a vote in conscious, a vote that attests for the defeat of those in power for the past 30 years. bringing news on the hill. comment on where you believe europe is going with immigration and borders and the issues there. >> the latest example. the people of europe are saying to their leaders we have had

enough of the open borders ideology just as people in america are saying that. it's the same in europe. it came to a head. as a result of the open borders philosophy implemented in europe just after october 7th the most despicable hamas attacks you saw demonstrations on the streets of holland and other countries that horrified people and said we have got to do something about it and need our leaders to listen to us. they have been ignoring it for too long. this will continue to be the case. you will continue to see these populist uprising until they realize they have to change direction. >> bill: i think france, germany, italy, others that maybe we can't even see just yet. >> brexit was a parts of that as well. >> bill: great to see you, steve. nice tan looking at this guy living in california. back to dana now. >> dana: the house is about to take up the third expulsion vote for george santos.

voting underway and we want to bring in chad pergram to explain what happens, how long will it take and how close is this vote going to be, chad? >> we don't really know because this is only the ninth expulsion vote in congressional history here. this vote at least on the clock is scheduled to go five minutes like soccer. they usually have stoppage time takes 7 or 8 minutes. the thing i want to direct you to on the screen. if you see them hit 290 votes, that's 2/3 of 435, the bar to expel a member of congress. it is all about the math. the reason that they may be able to expel him with fewer than 290 votes is that we don't know how many people will actually cast ballots or if you have a present vote. somebody voting present. george santos voted present a couple of moments ago on the unrelated vote. the only one to do so. in 2002 you had a democrat from ohio who was expelled.

the last member who was expelled. he did not vote on his own expulsion. he was expelled and left. i will hold up something here. this is a chart i have with me that i keep when they need 2/3 for various bills. certainly expulsion. we have not done this in 21 years. if the number is fewer than 435 casting ballots i can consult this and figure out what the magic number is. we don't know until it is announced from the chair. we should have a result here pretty soon. as you see on the board right now, there is more than a simple majority to expel george santos but they have to have more republicans vote yes and the other thing i will dial you in on, too, if all democrats -- this is me fileting the vote now all about the math, they right now are on track to expel him. how do i know that? because all democrats are expected to vote to expel. they needed about 70 votes here on top of the democrats, 77, 80

votes to get to that point. even though all the votes aren't in yet, this is on track for an expulsion because it looks like you will be in the upper 80s and 90s and maybe more than that. we'll have a result quickly and know for sure if he is going to be expelled. it is not final until they gavel this down. there have been three failed expulsion votes in the house of representatives. the last was bernie frank in 1990. >> dana: that was 21 years ago about jim traficant. i remember that like it was yesterday. mike johnson, the speaker, he came out and said he is going to vote against. do we have the reasons that he has stated? why would he vote against? >> mike johnson was asked about this on tuesday and he said he has a real problem with this because if you look at the precedent in the house of representatives, there is only five people who have ever been

expelled. three were members of the confederacy expelled in 1861 and traficant and ozzie meyers in 1980. both of them had been convicted in a court of law. this is where you have speaker johnson, steve scalise, majority leader, indicating that they said you know, he hasn't been convicted in court. his trial is scheduled for february. maybe we should wait and see. now what they tried to do was give a little bit of modicum of process here where they went through and completed the ethics committee report. michael guest, the chair of the ethics committee introduced this resolution to expel santos. for some members, a lot of republicans from new york state and long island and swing district, they indicated that they thought it would be enough. i will tell you right now. a news flash. they have the votes to expel george santos. they're above that 2/3 threshold. he will be the sixth member ever

expelled from the house of representatives when they gavel this down. he will no longer be a member of congress. it is immediate. >> bill: wow. they walk him out the door before the weekend is up. i think your numbers are right, chad. right around 70 or 75 republicans. you are almost at 100 now. the thing about his district. keep in mind this now. it's long island but close to the border of queens, new york. and you could argue the red wave that didn't happen in the mid-terms did happen in the state of new york. it did happen on long island. one can make the case that the reason why the republicans even have a majority in the house today is because of how new york went red on that house vote. it will be a contested district in 2024. i don't know if democrats have the ability to flip it yet but that's what elections are about coming up next year. >> the congressman who represented that district before

and steve israel in congress used to be the chair of the democratic congressional campaign committee in charge of getting elected to the house but they redrew a lot of lines in the new york not to the democrats' pleasure. they argue that's why some of these districts changed. they lost control of the redistricting process in the state of new york. but special elections are just that. they would have to have a special election. the other thing to look for when we talk about the math here, bill and dana, is the idea the republican majority dwindles even more. you will have bill johnson, a republican from ohio, he will depart. they just went up one in the house of representatives on the republican side. one was elected in a special election the other day. this is a narrow majority and causes a lot of problems for republicans and why they have trouble passing their bills. >> dana: at this point then, chad, perhaps the long national

nightmare of george santos will be behind us all. he loves the media attention. gave a long press conference yesterday, chad, and now it's at 311 to 113. i'm sure you will have updates throughout the day. thank you, chad. >> thank you. >> dana: bill, i have missed having you next to me. we had quite a show with the news of sandra day o'connor passing and you at the reagan library. >> bill: then the expulsion of george santos. we are going to have an entire weekend of coverage out here at the reagan library. dana, you think about the world's hot spots. they're hotter now than they have been in years. and so we'll take them head on and find out what the best path is for the united states and what our own policies can do to help make it better for u.s. citizens. >> dana: give my best to steve hadley and others. thank you for watching. see you monday