admittedly i get distracted on sunday mornings but i'm sure the great commandments are love god and love your neighbor as yourself and love ago child doesn't mean letting that child do whatever he or she wants to do. just seems like they're making it really, really hard for good people with religious beliefs that want to get involved and do something that's admirable with being a foster parent. thank you and your wife and family and thank you for writing the letter and shedding light on it on a sunday night for us. >> thanks for covering this important story and for having me on. trey: yes, sir, mr. attorney general. take care. and thank you for spending part of beyond a reasonable doubt sunday -- part of junior sunday with us. hope you have a great week ahead. find us online at gowdy america or on the trey gowdy podcast and good night from south carolina ♪ ♪ ♪

>> sean: and welcome to "hannity" and we are broadcasting live just north of atlanta, georgia, in alpharetta, georgia, where in just a moment, we're going to hear from the republican governor of florida, to -- the democrat quarter of the great state of california for what is the first ever red state blue state debate on the fox news channel. we will do our best to give equal time to each governor. we will limit answers to 60 questions. we will be flexible as needed but the debate, as needed as long with a 32nd time for rebuttal. let me start by introducing both florida governor ron desantis california governor gavin newsom. thank you both for being here. i really appreciate it. i know both of you personally. i have known you both for a long time. i know you are very busy. are also notice. i know that both of you love your individual states. i know you both have a deep and abiding love for our country as

i do. but where we are in the country, we have never kind of been this divided in a long time. there are clear and deep and profound differences in your approach to governance. and before we begin, one quick note to all of you watching at home. okay, now the longest running primetime host, i feel blessed in my 28-year at fox, it is kind of widely known that i am a conservative. however, tonight, i will be moderating this debate. i will not be part of the debate. are questions tonight will be coming from well sourced, fact centered perspectives and you will see it here, most of tonight's questions will deal with the most fundamental issu issues, the ones that impact the lives of the people that make this country great. the people of florida, the people in california, and in many ways, every state in the country will discuss taxes, the economy, crime, guns, homelessness, education, parental rights, abortion, gas prices, in other words, things

that impact you every single day. in the end, you will get to decide which governing philosophy you believe is bett better, the governors will explain their governing philosophy and again, fact-based questions. let's get started. everybody ready? all right, as we speak, there is a phenomenon that is playing out across the entire country, americans they are leaving blue states in droves in favor of red states. you can see numbers on the screen righ right now, in the ys 2021 and 2022. these particular numbers are stark in the state that you read in the case of you, governor newsom, according to the u.s. census, where the numbers come from. in 2021, 2022, california's lost 750,000 residents to other states. governor desantis, during that same two-year period, you gained 454,000 residents. from other states. so governors desantis, we had a coin toss. i was not part of it. i missed it.

but apparently governor newsom, you won the coin toss. and you chose to let governor desantis have the first question. you will get the last word tonight. so i begin with you, for governor newsom, i will ask, you know, what your response is on this as well. it is a simple question. how do you explain this phenomenon? governor, what is going on. >> when i was in the navy, i got orders to go to coronado in southern california and i was a floridian. i was like, man, this is one of the most beautiful places on earth and i think california has more natural advantages than any state in the country. you have almost don't you almost have to try to mess california up. that is what gavin newsom has done since he has been governor. he is the first governor to ever lose population, they actually at one point ran out of u-hauls in the state of california because so many people were leaving. of course, he has imposed restrictions on his own people while exempting himself from those restrictions and going to the french laundry while his

people were suffering. he led the country in school closures, blocking kids out of school while he had his own kids in private school in person. no, he is very good at spending these tales. he is very good at being slick and slippery. he will tell a blizzard of wise to be able to try to mask the failures. but the reality is they have failed because of his leftist ideology. and the choice for america is this. what biden and harris and newsom want to do is take the california model and do that nationally. enforcer, we showed the conservative principles work. this country must choose freedom over failure. >> sean: governor newsom, your reaction. >> governor newsom: it is good to be with you, shaw sean. >> sean: i dressed up for the occasion. >> governor newsom: i'm impressed and i'm grateful. it is an important occasion. and i think it is important to the folks watching, they are probably wondering, what are we actually doing here? and i want to answer that very directly. i will tell you why i'm here.

i'm here to tell the truth about the biden/harris record and compare it does compare and contrast ron desantis' record as a points of contrast that is as different as daylight and darkness. you want to bring us back to pre-1960s world. america, in reverse. you want to roll back hard earned national rights on voting rights, on civil rights, lgbtq rights, on women's rights, not just access to abortion, but also access to contraception. you want to weaponize grievance. you are focusing on false separateness. you in particular, ron, are a cultural purge intimidating and humiliating people you disagree with. you and president trump are really trying to make democracy on fire. so sean, there are profound differences tonight. and i look forward in engaging. but there's one thing in closing that we have in common, is neither of us will be the

nominee for our party in 2024. >> sean: governor, a great opening statement. can you explain this migration? out of california and going to red states. >> governor desantis: you mean the last two years, more floridians going to californians than california is going to florida? that is going to be fun to fact check. has no peers. california dominates. the size of 21 state populations combined. fifth largest economy in the road. we dominate. number one manufacturing state. we dominate research and development. access to innovation, or scientist, or more researchers, more engineers, more nobel laureates in the state of california than any other state in the ignition. the finest system of higher education. it is the birthplace of life science and biotech and nanotechnology. we dominate in green tech. we dominate in high-tech. we dominate in artificial intelligence. so with respect, i think it is

an interesting campaign strategy for ron desantis to be passing the state of 40 million americans went california simply has no peers. >> governor desantis: that is a pretty slick way of not answering your question. he went on a binge of putting out a lot of left-wing platitudes. i talked to all people that moved from california to florida and we never used to get people -- or any one because why would you leave california? it has the best weather. excuse me, sir. one of the things that i did, i had -- i was talking to a gentleman -- >> sean: guys, i'm going to let the debate read. let's take turns. >> governor desantis: i was talking to a fellow who made the move from california to florida and he said that florida is safer, lower taxes, and he is happy with the quality of life and then he paused and he said, by the way, pam gavin newsom's father-in-law. so we do count gavin's in-laws as some of the people who have

fled california and why are we getting people to come? we have a 50 year low in the crime rate. you don't see, in the last 10 years, we had a 45% decline in homelessness. california has had a 44% increase in homelessness. we back the blue. i was walking the streets of san francisco a couple months ago and i had some of the cops in san francisco to a beeline to come over to me and i did not know what they were going to s say. they said, we want to thank you for standing for law enforcement because we don't get that support in the state of california. people understand the quality of life matters. they understand that florida is doing it right. and i can tell you the numbers speak for themselves. we have way more -- >> sean: can we move on? >> governor desantis: gavin can't say the awesome. >> sean: let me -- >> governor newsom: let's talk about crime. >> sean: hold on. wait a minute. hold on a second. >> governor newsom: you said a lot of things that were actually on on through. >> sean: 2020.

you have yet to address the issue. i asked you twice. the issue of why this migration out of red states, i'm sorry, out of blue states. >> governor newsom: we just -- >> sean: i'm asking -- [overlapping speakers] >> it is a fact. robert let's go. your states have vastly different income tax rates. okay. it is what it is. these are the facts. california's hydrates top earners, 13%. married, well, for example, in california, earning a median income of 84,000, they have 86% income tax in the state of california. florida's income tax rate is 0% across all salaries. but it goes beyond income taxes. property taxes are lower in california. but everything else is higher. let's take a look at the numbers. these are the facts. the average property tax in california, .75%. 40, .91%. sales tax, california, 7.25%. four to 6%.

gas the league tax -- gas tax rate, 77 cents a gallon. that is low estimate. it is up to a dollar when you include mandatory fees and in florida, it is 35 cents. corp. -- corporate income tax, california, 8.8%. governor newsom, this is your question. let me ask you, obviously, you support different philosophy, which is higher taxes -- >> governor newsom: hold on. this is a very different approach. i agree with you completely. he has one of the most regressive tax rates in the united states of america. at what that means is simply this. who does he tax? he taxes low income workers more than we tax millionaires and billionaires in the state of california. the question is a simple one. who, ron, are you up for? it is a factual light of the california has the highest tax rate but for whom? and it is a foundational fundamental difference.

look at at states like texas, overwhelming majority of texans play more -- pay more taxes to the state of california. it is who you are for. and i think those values matter and i appreciate you bringing up the issue of taxes. >> governor desantis: how many people leave florida to go to california because they pay less taxes? i'm not saying that. are people going because they pay less taxes? of course not. to come to florida because they pay lower taxes. and yet california has the higher sales tax and that is one of the things that we do. here's the thing. i will give get them -- gavin credit. he admitted he has joined at the hip with biden/harris but he thinks biden and harris have done a great job. he thinks the economy is working. because of their's policies for americans and they are not. and so what california represents is the biden/harris agenda on steroids. they would love nothing more than to get four more years to be able to take the california model nationally. that would be disastrous for working people. >> governor newsom: we can talk

about working people. they pay more in your state. and it is just -- >> governor desantis: it is true. >> governor newsom: you can't make this up. >> governor desantis: how do they afford that? these are folks that are blue-collar people. you are going to force everybody to buy an electric vehicle. how are they going to be a ford -- able to afford electric vehicle? california has one of the highest inequality rates. they have silicon valley billing is. they have a lot people that are on government assistance. they have hollowed out their middle-class. they have been leaving in other places. arizona, they go to nevada. >> sean: i do have a follow-up question. >> governor newsom: i'm happy that you continue to talk. let's talk about bidenomics. i'm happy to take that on as well. >> governor desantis: i appreciate you acknowledging that. >> governor newsom: 10 times more jobs than the last three republican presidents.

>> governor desantis: because the jobs were because of the covid lockdown. are you kidding me? >> governor newsom: as it continues to talk over me, i will talk to the american people. the lowest unemployment in american history. the lowest unemployment for hispanics. the lowest unemployment for women in 70 years. that is this administration's agenda. and by the way, as you smile and smirk over there, you should know this, the american people, here's a guy who celebrated bidenomics just this week, celebrating $28 million that came in your state because of the chips and science, one of the most significant economic plants since fdr. i'm proud of th of the work biden/harris have done. >> sean: would you like to respond? i do have a follow-up. 6% rate on people, families, coupled in california, they pay 6% income tax on any $4,000 a year. [overlapping speakers]

>> on asking about -- [overlapping speakers] >> governor newsom: california has lower taxes, lower than 32 states for working families in their middle-class, significantly lower taxes. >> sean: do you support that? do you support a 6% income tax. >> governor newsom: [indistinct] advantage billionaires and millionaires over working families. people in the state pay more taxes in the low end then we tax people on —-dash. >> governor desantis: how does that help working people? that does not help working people at all. how does paying an 8% sales tax help working people? that does not help working people at all. they have the highest taxes in the nation. people flee to be able to save money to get out of california and you have working class people that move to these other states, their dollars go much further but here is the thing.

they want to takest bidenomics and they want to double down on this for the next four years. how many people are able to afford groceries now compared to what you were doing three or four years ago? i talked to people, you know, talk to a woman who had a cart full of groceries, going in and then bringing it up. a got to be so expensive she has to take a lot of the stuff out. i did not used to be the case. people is to be able to work hard and get ahead. that is not true under joe biden. and you know what, one more financing, california's unemployment rate is 60% higher than florida's unemployment rate. are an employment rate is 2.8%. >> sean: that goes to my next question. >> governor desantis: it is a command and control economy. they have a political agenda that they are pursuing. >> sean: let me ask a question. i think it is important. >> governor newsom: by the way, biden administration, the last three years, -- >> sean: is joe biden paying you tonight? i -- i thought this was a state

versus state. >> governor newsom: it is about the united states of america. >> governor desantis: you just won't admit it. you will not admit it. >> sean: all right, gentlemen. we can't talk over each other. i'm going to move on to my next question. the unemployment rate in florida is 2.8%. as you stated. and california ranks second worst in the country at 4.8%. hold on. this question goes to governor desantis and then you will have a chance to respond. governor desantis? >> governor desantis: they tax too much. a big leg too much. they have a political agenda. they have lost a lot of companies. a lot of companies have moved to texas. they have lost a lot of companies to texas because they are not doing a good job looking out for folks and not creating a good business environment and i have people that come to florida, they tell me, you know, you guys actually want us to succeed in for the. and they feel like when they are in california, they don't want business to succeed.

>> governor newsom: the tampa bay rays? >> governor desantis: i think that is an interesting point with disney. i had disney open during this covid and we made them a fortune and we saved a lot of jobs. you had disney close inexplicably for over a year. yeah. if you are not are following you were a lock down governor. you did a lot of damage to your people. you have more kids locked out of school for a longer period of time in california than anywhere else in the country. it was the working class kids. it was the middle income kids. his kids were in private school. they were in class -- the teachers union. he is owned by the teachers union. >> governor newsom: we will never cross —-dash. >> governor desantis: lock, stop, and real. >> governor newsom: let's talk about your record on covert on covert. he passed an emergency declaration. to close down your beaches, its bars, restaurants. it is a fact. you had quarantines. you had quarantines. you had checkpoints all over the state of florida. by the way, i did not say that.

donald trump laid you out on this. you did that. he followed science. apollo tax. you follow science. >> governor desantis: that is not true. >> governor newsom: you follow tajik. you were promoting vaccines. >> sean: we were open. you were close. >> governor newsom: if it is okay with you -- [overlapping speakers] >> governor desantis: wire you closed for so long? >> sean: i'm trying to let it breathe. >> governor newsom: he did all of that until he decided to fall prey to the fringe of his party and as a consequence of that, tens of thousands of people lost their lives. >> governor desantis: is not true. >> governor newsom: if i had to both policies, the equivalence of tens of thousands of people lost their lives and for what? >> governor desantis: those are more lives. they did a study, for the had a lower a standardized covert death rate than california did. that is a -- one more thing. one more thing. the other thing he had, the

other thing california had, california had higher excess mortality. >> sean: all right, gentlemen. gentlemen. guys. honestly, hold on a second. i want to ask you both if -- slow down. i want everyone to be heard. if i can ask you, i really do want this to breathe. i want this debate to organically develop. to do that, i need both of your cooperation. i don't want to be a hall monitor. that is not my style. you mentioned covid. let me go to covid. and i plan to bring this up later. but you both took a very different approaches as it comes to covid. governor newsom, you issued the nation's first stay-at-home order on march 19th of 2020. governor desantis, you took a lot of heat for reopening schools. you opened schools in florida in august of 2020. all right, so here's the data which i think is important. this is where the facts come in. your states death rates were almost identical. >> governor newsom: this is factually untrue. >> sean: okay. and by the way, both your states

with such different approaches which is pretty fascinating, were both lower significantly lower than the national average. these numbers come straight from the cdc. so governor newsom, how do you explain that. >> governor newsom: per capita death rates were 29% per capita higher. >> governor desantis: that is not with the sets stay right there. >> governor newsom: , tens of thousands of people. >> governor desantis: don't lie about it. he put the graphic up there. don't lie about it. understand, you don't need to lie about it. >> governor newsom: you were a lock down governor. >> sean: what at a time. >> governor newsom: he is running away from the record. he is running away from the fact. tens of thousands of people died. >> sean: we saw the cdc nubbers. >> governor newsom: 29% higher death rate in the state. versus the state of california. >> governor desantis: the stats are very clear, california and

florida basically the same. why is that important? because gavin newsom did huge damage to people and california. he ruined livelihoods. we reopened the estate very quickly. we saved thousands of jobs. we saved hundreds of thousands of jobs. thousands of businesses. we had our kids in school. he had the kids locked out of school because of the teachers union. that is having a generational impact. california is one of the lowest literacy rates in the country and the most recent exam, four teams in number 3 for fourth grade reading. california was far, far behind. so you should apologize for not getting your kids in school. why didn't you get the kids in school in the summer of 2020 like we did? >> governor newsom: the only person -- >> governor desantis: you did not do the job you should have done. >> sean: one at a time. >> governor newsom: ron desantis for the tens of thousands of lives that died unnecessarily because you played to the fringe of the party.

>> we got to take a break. finish your thought. >> governor newsom: when it comes to the issue of schools, be careful. you had more learning lost during covid than the national average of the state of california. it is a fact. more learning loss. your economy contracted more in 2020. >> sean: quick break. >> governor newsom: it is slower than california in 2021. more to. robin more to on this debate. >> governor desantis: the next segment i guess. >> sean: it has been rather dull at the start. anyway, we got a lot to get to. coming up, many important topics that we're going to be talking about including one issue where my -- might find agreement actually as we continued the blue state/red state debate. we are alive. we are in georgia. thank you for being with us. ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ >> sean: welcome back to "hannity." as we continue our new state/red state debate with governor ron desantis and governor gavin newsom. joe biden's message to illegal immigrants during his campaign was, a lot of them come. i have the tape, but they said i would not play the tape. since taking office, biden says he has gotten control of the border. vice president kamala harris, homeland security secretary mayor, his biden's press secretary karine jean-pierre have also the border is either secure or the border is closed. the border patrol says, well, guess what, they have been a record 6.5 million in those encounters with legal immigrants and so-called asylum-seekers at the border since president biden took office. the administration says, well, they don't know how many people actually are in the country immediately. gentlemen, the american people, i ask you, i believe it is your

turn, governor newsom, have the american people on the issue of borders, you are defending the biden administration, yours and the border is a secure. they are seeing the border is closed. those are the numbers from the border patrol. are the american people being lied to? >> governor newsom: i don't think they are being lot to. the biden administration put out a comprehensive plan. and the republican party did not touch it. they have not moved on it. he played politics with us. i will be honest with you. i think there's probably one person, i won't listen to on this topic more than the guy that i'm standing next to, ron desantis. absolutely, lacks any credibility on the issue of immigration. when he was in congress, he supported amnesty. he is in congress, he supported john winner's bill. >> governor desantis: that is false. >> governor newsom: you supported obama's -- you supported obama's ohsu supported obama's efforts to advance comprehensive reform. alaska you want to talk to on that immigrant -- your

immigration policy can best be described as a cover from the state of florida going into another state, the state of texas, lying to migrants, promising them jobs and housing to send them to an island of martha's vineyard, and then sending them to a parking lot in sacramento, california. i met with those migrants that you would like to. under false pretense. that kind of gamesmanship, using human beings as pawns, i think there is a disqualifying. so again, a guy who stands here, who has been out on the republican debate stage, saying that he is going to shoot people with backpacks and that he has a strategy to potential even invade our second largest trading partner, mexico, that has a record of supporting amnesty and supporting reforms under the obama administration is in the sky standing on stage talking about the issue of immigration reform tonight. >> governor desantis: it is déàa vu with that flurry of lies. this is a guy that's the biden

administration is not blind to the public about the border. to go to white house briefing room every day. they said the border is secure. they are lying to you. we know that that is not true. gavin newsom is lying to you when he says somehow i supported these things which i did not do. he is also lying to you about what it is going to take to solve this problem. california is a century state. they thumb their nose at federal immigration law practice has real consequences. there was an illegal alien, herbert nixson flores, who was in l.a. in custody, a repeat criminal. ice wanted to take him into custody because then they would be able to deport him. alie refuses to work with ice. the end up releasing him on the street. he ends up murdering the mother of a three-year-old little girl. that -- those policies are deadly. they did not work. and i would tell you this. the martha's vineyard transport, martha's vineyard said it was a century jurisdiction.

kind of reminds me about gavin newsom when he restricted californians that he went to the ranch laundry. these liberal elites, they like to impose burdens on you. they don't want to have to face the consequences of their action. we have a lot of the leads who want open borders. hoops extra everybody else about it. that the minute they have to do with any of the consequences, oh, man, all hell breaks loose. >> sean: we are moving onto the next question. on the same topic, this is a quick important. some migrants i know want to come to america for a better life. for themselves and their family. i totally sympathize with them. many good people feeling very bad situations abroad. but others are abusing the asylum process and in the process in search of where they are coming from, we are learning that many are coming from some of our top geopolitical photos. countries with little to no vetting or people coming into

they are not being invited. look at these numbers. between october 2021, octobe october 2023, border agents encourage 6,386 nationals from afghanistan. 3,153 from egypt. 659 from iran. that number wednesday sponsor of terror. 538 from syria. 12,605 from russia. and a whopping 26,113 from chi china. now, my question to the next question goes to you, governor newsom. what are the odds that biden's open borders have allowed terrorists and terrorist cells and vented into this country? is that a clear and present danger to every american? >> governor desantis: of course our enemies are going to take advantage of this. he is violating his oath of office to -- that the laws are vaguely executive. he is not only having 8 million come in. and if there are terrorists.

there's a lot of fentanyl that we have had tens of thousands of fentanyl deaths. i have had -- i have met a lot of angel parents who have lost kids to fentanyl overdose and the problem is you will have a college kid that may take some pills not knowing that there's fentanyl and it and then right there, that can be fatal to. they are poisoning our people. and joe biden is sitting on his hands. he refuses to take care of the border. he refuses to hold the drug cartels accountable. this is the vision of biden harris newsom. open borders. americans suffer and americans continue to die because of fentanyl. there will be the terrorist attack at some points that will be able to trace back to our southern borders. >> by the way, do you see that risk, governor newsom? do you see that risk? >> governor newsom: and joe biden put out not only a comprehensive plan. he puts a plan -- >> sean: is there a risk to the american people? >> governor newsom: i support border security. i think the asylum system is broken.

i believe that we push on the only guy here who is a border state governor. you are trolling folks and trying to play political games so you can out of trump trump. how is that going for you, ron? you are down 41 points in your own home state. on the issue of immigration, joe biden put a $14 billion immigration package up in front of congress, 2300 border agents as well as -- this is 1,000 new law-enforcement officers to deal with the pinault issue. and that is a major issue in your state. 41% higher overdose rates than the state of california. and here is what i have not heard. not a peep from ron desantis. they want to demagogue this issue. you don't want to solve this issue. why? don't you lead your party and support that $14 billion -- >> sean: governor newsom, i appreciate your answer. you have mentioned comprehensive immigration reform. i don't think it is going to

happen. let me -- hang on. let me -- let me finish my question. my question was, with all of these millions and millions of people coming into this country unvented, the question was and remains, is this a clear and present danger from the country's those countries are put up on the screen? is that a clear and present danger to america and what do you do in the interim? >> governor newsom: that is what the president against a put a package in front of congress they can act on today. they have not done anything. >> sean: what do you support? do you support a border wall? >> governor newsom: i support the 14 billing package that includes 2300 border agents. it also includes $850 million in the technology for border security. you hear nothing from ron desantis. you hear nothing, sean, i respectfully. you hear nothing from the republican party. they play politics. >> sean: i'm almost out of time. does it break -- let me ask the question another way.

is it where you our top geopolitical foes, the network state sponsor of terror, iran, china, russia, afghanistan, syria, that there are -- our southern border, you are a border state governor. does that concern you at all? >> governor newsom: the answer is yes. why else would i put the national guard? on the largest port in the western hemisphere. this guy has no record. the fact that you supported amnesty, the fact -- >> governor desantis: that is a lie. >> governor newsom: -- obama's reforms. >> governor desantis: that is a alive. you are just making things up. here is the thing. i don't mind him lying to me. i don't mind gavin lying to me. but i do mind him lying to you. he is sitting there saying that joe biden is willing to solve this problem. is there anybody out there that actually believes this? biden created this problem. he is willing to write to you about that. you know he is lying about all

these other facts and figures about all this other stuff. he is throwing stuff out to see what sticks against the wall. this is a slick, slippery politician who stayed his failing. people are living his state. >> sean: got to take our second break. when we come back, we will have a lot more ground to cover. quick break. we have a lot of ground to cover. more with governors desantis and newsom. the great blue/red state debate as we continue. thank you for being with us. ♪ ♪ huh. how long have you been tracking our car's value with carvana? just, like, 7 months. should we sell it? we hold... hold... silver vans are going for more right now, should we... hold... our low mileage is paying off. you think we should... hold... depreciation is really heating up you think... hoooold!!! hooold! hooold. hold! we just dipped 2.5%! hooooooold!!! now!!!! i'm on it. i'm, on it.

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♪ ♪ >> sean: welcome back to the

great blue state/red state debate with governor gavin newsom, governor ron desantis. let's take a little breathing room. i don't mind the debate is taking on a life of its own. with each of you breathe. i don't want to be the hall monitor. please don't turn me into that. let's look at the issue of crime. api numbers, violent crime, nationally, for each of your states. keep in mind the statistic shows what is the combined rate of homicide, robbery, aggravated assault, 2022. on the national level, the rate was 380.7 offenses for 100,000 people. california, the rate was much higher. 499.5 offenses per 100,000. in florida, we were, 258.9 offenses per 100,000. governor newsom, let me start with you. the numbers are way higher than the national average. how do you explain that when safety and security, i would

argue, a prerequisite for the pursuit of happiness? >> governor newsom: i cannot agree more. we are down 55% by the crimes in the state of california from the 1990s. i want to compare and contrast that with the issue in florida. xp that he did not mention and that is the murder rate. i will -- the issue is seven out of 10 -- >> sean: those numbers are part of the murder rates. >> governor newsom: red states. he has a 66% higher than death rate in the state of california. higher murder rate. a lot of places like jacksonville. go to places like orlando. go to places like tampa. the water rates are off the charts compared to cities like san francisco. and you know what? even more it recently, sean, and i think this is important. the american people deserve an answer, ron. you have one of the worst mass shootings in american history, parkland. 17 kids were gunned down. you had a young girl by the name of jamie whose father pleaded

with you to do something about it. you know what you did? you did the exact opposite. he made it easier for felons to get guns without background checks, without any training. these people pleaded with you. parents and their families to get tough on gun safety. and again, you made it easier for felons. he said of you, ron and i agree, after you signed that concealed carry bill, which increases the likelihood for a -- of more jamies losing their lives and call you weak, pathetic, and small. with respect, i appreciate you talking to police officers in the state of california. you may want to spend more time not on theo howard trails but other places across this country. you may spend a little more time in your home state and address the murder and gun violence in your own backyard. >> sean: this is the slick politician. you put up the rates. he has 500 per 100,000. for the is 250. that is almost twice as much and he is trying to spend that to say california is doing good?

people are leaving california in droves. largely because public safety has collapsed. they have, i mean, you go -- californians come to florida, one of the things they say, it is kind of like and go out of body expense. they can get toothpaste off the shelf to pay for it and leave because in a lot of these places in california, everything is under lock and key because they basically legalized retail theft. they have chosen california to put the interest of the criminals over public safety. they treat -- they are easier on six offenders. and if you just walk around san francisco, you will see and i think it is interesting. gavin newsom was mayor of san francisco. so he took the san francisco model, turn that into a template for california's collapse. now the left wants to take the california model and use that as a template for america's collapse to not let that happen. >> sean: i got a follow-up

question. you brought up -- governor. >> governor newsom: 126% higher. >> sean: governor -- >> governor newsom: it is 84%. it is 75% higher. >> governor desantis: let me also say -- >> governor newsom: what are you talking about? >> governor desantis: i know you like to lie. >> governor newsom: anytime you are uncomfortable -- >> governor desantis: he just put the statistics. your crime is higher. >> sean: gentlemen, we got to move on. let the audience -- we will let the audience look at the numbers and decide. according to the gun control advocacy group, every town for gun safety, okay, california has the most, as you support, i know, governor, restrictive gun laws in the united states. florida has the 19th most restrictive yet if you look at the year 2019, when each of you took office, california has had

21 mass shootings, florida has had nine. now, that is according to a usa today, ap, northeastern university database data. keep in mind, masculine is defined as the intentional -- mass killing is defined as the intentional killing of four or more victims. i believe, governor desantis, you get this first. >> governor desantis: what california wants to do is they want to make it harder for law-abiding citizens to defend themselves then they go easy on the criminals who are perpetrating the crime. they don't stand up for the men and women of law enforcement. that is why a lot of people have left the state because they don't get the support from the communities that they need. and gavin told another life. he said we made it easier for felons to do? felons are not allowed to possess firearms. that is federal law. that has been long-standing. >> governor newsom: no background checks. >> governor desantis: that is an absolute lie. that has nothing to do with

buying or purchasing a weapon. that is just another light is coming out. here is the thing. people are leaving california in droves because he has failed to stand up for public safety. they are on an ideological joyride to lead people out of prison early, to go easy on them. head, your body, gavin's buddy in los angeles, gascon, he does not even prosecute. when you have -- when i was in southern california for the reagan debate, a lot of the women tell me they have to take off all their jewelry and just to be able to go shopping because otherwise they are going to get mugged. that is the reality that people are facing in california. gavin can try to put lipstick on that pig, but he has failed the people of california. >> governor newsom: i love this person talk about backing the blue when he pardoned january 6 insurrections, charged with attacking law enforcement. you talked to big game about backing the blue. with all due respect to the crime rate, again, he is not answering the fact that he has a

higher murder rate in the state of california. 56% higher than the rate of the state of california and i could is the answer this point. and safety saves lives. i don't think it. i know it. the data out. california probably does need delete in terms of common sense can safely. you had the chance to do something meaningful. you did the exact opposite. you moved in the exact doctorate -- opposite direction. look and you're own backyard, ron. >> governor desantis: i will do that. we had two radical left soros district attorneys like your body gascon in l.a., one in tampa, one in orlando. they were endangering the public and i removed them from their post. gavin newsom is not lifted a finger to rein in gascon in l.a. that city has collapsed. the county has collapsed. >> governor newsom: don't insult the great american city. >> governor desantis: this is what is happening.

that california model -- >> sean: 15 seconds, we got to go to break. >> governor newsom: you are running for president of the united states. you are talking down one of the great american cities, los angeles. that is insulting and you are doing it because you want to abdicate the fact that you have a higher murder rate. >> and we have to take a break. we will have more with governor desantis, governor gavin newsom on the other side as we continued the great state debate, blue versus red. hardly any differences. a lot of ground to cover. we are in beautiful alpharetta, georgia. thank you for joining us on us n "hannity." ♪ ♪

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>> sean: welcome back to "hannity." the great red state/blue state debate. we continue with governor ron desantis of florida, governor gavin newsom of the state of california. let's turn to the issue of parental rights. now, in march of last year, governor desantis, as you know, you sign the parental rights and education bill and let me read from it. it says, classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade three or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students and according with state standards. critics have called the bill "homophobic." they branded it the "don't say gay" bill. should schools be focused on reading, writing, science, math,

history, computers and maybe leaving values considering parents might have different values than teachers at school, to the parents to religious institutions? or is it the role of the school? what is the role? >> governor desantis: the role of the schools is to educate kids, not to indoctrinate kids. it is to do the basics and what we have sent in for the is it is inappropriate to tell a kindergartner that your gender is a choice, it is inappropriate to tell a second grader that they may have been born in the wrong body. california has the. they want to have that injected into the elementary school. my wife and i have a seven, five, and a three-year-old. we don't think that is appropriate. i know most parents do not think it is appropriate. it is also important to respect parental rights to know what works and is being used in the classroom and everything should be age-appropriate. i actually have something that i brought that some parents have objected to. this is a book that is in some of the schools in california. florida, this is not consistent with our standards, called

genderqueer. this is pornography, and it is wrong. this should not be in the schools. when people liked on the left to say that somehow you are banning books by removing this from a young kid's classroom. no, this is not age-appropriate and so we're going to stand for the rights of parents. and i think need to do that nationwide. i do think you can have a situation where some states just trample on the rights of parents. parents have a fundamental right to direct the education and upbringing of their kids. >> governor newsom: you have been -- 1,406 books have been banned just last year under ron desantis of leadership. i love that he keeps pulling this out. he has been doing this all over the campaign trail. what is wrong with toni morrison's books? what is wrong with amanda gorm gorman's? 1,400 —-dash. >> governor desantis: false narrative. >> governor newsom: -- books have been banned in the state of florida as it relates to parental rights, come on.

california, it is in our constitution, parental engaging. we require parental engagement. on curriculum development and we don't complete lie, we don't require k through third grade sexual education. you are using education as a sword for your cultural purge. with all due respect, you know, i remember in the 1970s, the 1970s, we had a bill called the briggs initiative and there was a guy by the name of ronald reagan, so offended by the briggs initiative which was the original "don't say gay" bill. it was not allowing teachers who happen to be gay to teach. reagan said, you can't catch gay like you can measles. i don't like the way you demean the lgbtq community. i don't like how you humiliate people you disagree with. i find this primarily offensive and this is a core value that distinguishes the values of my state and frankly the vast majority of americans against

the organization of education. >> sean: i have a follow-up question for you, though. and by the way, yes or no, or the book banning issues, is that not a state issue? is that a state issue or a local issue? >> governor desantis: local. >> sean: that is all i want to know. here is the question that i have for you, governor newsom. some of the work you are talking about, one is called, the government just called it up, it is called "genderqueer, a memo memoir," showing sex ask. and a graphic book about young boys performing sex ask. on the ins and outs of gay sexuality. that contains graphic description is about how to masturbate. do you believe that is appropriate for school districts to teach kids, yes or no? >> governor newsom: that is not

part of the curriculum. >> sean: those are books that were in school. >> governor newsom: the bottom line is, you are on a book banning binge in your state. 1,406 books, 3,362 in this country. >> sean: what about those books? >> governor newsom: we don't provide those who prefer through third grade education, that kind of curriculum, it is just made up. these guys make it up. it is part of this cultural purge. >> sean: -- >> governor newsom: what i find offensive is the very significant number of these books happen to be lgbtq books. a significant number of these books happen to be about african-americans. >> sean: governor kotek do you think -- >> governor newsom: we don't teach that. we don't teach that. we have sex education in high schools where it is appropriate. this is a made up issue. you talk about dividing this country. this is part of the culture war, the weaponization of grievance. this is part using education, we

are focusing on math, science, we are focusing on reimagining our schools. >> sean: let me get to education. >> governor newsom: he is criminalizing teachers. >> governor desantis: they use the schools to impose a liberal agenda. social justice, they have this ethnic studies where they are dividing people. let me just say something about parents' writes. he says california respects parents' writes. he has been telling a lot of whoppers tonight. in california, if you are a parent in iowa or new hampshire, south carolina, your minor child can go to california without your knowledge or without your consent and get hormone therapy, puberty blockers, and a sex change operation without you knowing or consenting. how in the heck is that honoring parents' writes when you are brady people from out of state to go around their parents' backs and getting life altering surgeries? that is radical. that is extreme. that is an assault on parents' writes.

>> governor newsom: you know what, ron? >> governor desantis: it is not for you to decide. it is for the parents to decide. the parents did not want kids going to these things. >> sean: let's turn to the issue of education. >> governor desantis: roubic so monday in a way -- >> sean: nobody can hear you. all right. s turn, judgment, if i may, to the issue of education. here is public school pending per k-12 students according to the education data initiative. from the u.s. census bureau, and national center for and to, and, florida spends nearly $12,000 per student while california spends over $16,000. florida is ranked number one by u.s. news & world report. in terms of state education rankings, california ranks 20th. governor newsom, what is your explanation? you spend more money and they

have better results in florida, why? >> governor newsom: i told you what we are doing. we created brand-new grade. we are imagining the school day not just the school year. which is provided 3.4 million of our students upwards of $2 billion per child savings accounts. and the opportunity to start businesses when they graduate. we have one of the best records under covert during covid and again, you did not answer to the fact you had more learning loss, ron desantis had more learning lost during covid. fourth grade rating, fourth grade math, it's great reading, eighth grade math, we outperformed you, it is a fact, during covid, every one of those categories. i can't wait to get all of the political facts because you keep denying some basic fundamental facts on health, wealth, and education. we outperformed you during covid. you talked about things to apologize. you should apologize for your covid record. you were with fauci. you aligned with vaccines.

you allied with cdc guidelines until you did not. tens of thousands -- >> sean: let's return our focus to education. >> governor desantis: when we opened our schools, he kept the schools closed for a long time. and i had those that have devastating impacts. why? what gavin newsom does in california is kowtow to the teachers union. whatever they tell him to do, he does. he will never -- that is why the kids were locked out of school for so long. joe biden is in the pocket of the teachers union. and so as kamala harris. that is why they fox school -- >> governor newsom: it is not kamala harris. >> governor desantis: they have that. biden came into office and he brought in the teachers union to be able to do all these different things to try to keep the schools closed. so the democratic party, the far left in this country, they are owned, lock stock and barrel by the teachers union. i -- get the schools open during covid. also to do universal school choice.

every parent in florida has the right to send their kids to school of their choice. we are winning these fights. california is betting that need to that unit because they controlled the politicians. >> sean: let's move on. a topic that will seemingly play a very large role in the future elections and it is the issue of abortion. i have a question for both of you. i will ask you to please respect the individuals' right to answer uninterrupted. and that is, governor desanti desantis, i think it is actually your turn, governor newsom, if you don't mind, the most medical professionals believe the baby is viable outside of a mother's womb by those between 24 and 26 weeks. that is the general scientific consensus. it changes. there are some variations on it. abortion is legal in your state, up to the viability. that is my understanding, unless the mother's house is in danger. i would like to get you on the record, you have been unwilling to answer this question. do you, should there be any restrictions on the issue of

abortion that you support at all because funding in california, you have allocated in your budget 265 million for abortion last year alone. my question, very specific, do you support any restrictions at all on abortion, especially among seven, eight, and nine pass viability? >> governor newsom: let me answer that question. let's talk about the issue of abortion. >> sean: can you answer that? >> governor newsom: i will answer the question. but i think this is important and it bears repeating. ron desantis has signed the most extreme antiabortion bills in america. he signed a bill banning any exceptions for rape and insist -- incest. before women can even access to a doctor's point. so extreme is your ban that criminalizes women and criminalizes doctors that even

donald trump said it was too extreme. on the issue of the extreme exception that you highlight as it relates to the issue of later term abortion, it is always always because of a fetal anomaly, the life of the mother. and in those rare cases, i trust and answer your question, i trust the mother and her doctor to make that decision. >> sean: i want to be clear on this. if the woman and her doctor for any reason -- know, i'm asking -- >> governor newsom: it is extremely rare. >> sean: i'm asking —-dash. >> governor newsom: this is where you have to go. >> sean: should -- [overlapping speakers] >> sean: it should there be -- would you support a ban on abortion in seven, eight, and ninth month, if the doors if the mother's life is not in jeopardy? >> governor newsom: extreme, extreme exception. we are not going on and having of the -- >> sean: should it be illegal? if it is rare, should it be illegal.

>> governor newsom: it should be up to the mother and her doctor and her conscience. >> no restriction? >> governor newsom: already answered. to cover, again, hold on. for the most extreme abortion -- i have a simple question. this is important. >> sean: no, no, no, i'm asking -- >> governor newsom: will you or will you not sign a six-week ban? >> sean: governor desantis, let's talk about people of the state, you had 15 weeks, you had a 15-week rule in california. you reduced it to six. my question is this, what was your thinking behind it? was it for religious reasons? was it for scientific reasons? what was the reason for you from going through a 15 weeks to six weeks? >> sean: i believe in a culture of life. i think we are better off when everyone has an opportunity to do well and that bill attaches when there is a detectable heartbeat for the child. and some states have done that. some states have done others.

some states have done it later and obviously they have a right to do that. but i think about one of our floridians. she actually survived a late-term abortion back in the day and they left her on the table there, basically to wither away. her grandmother came to save her. brought her to a hospital. brought her, saved her, and she ended up living a good life. so she counts and she matters. and i think that what the position that we have from the modern left including in california is that they will take your tax dollars and they will fund abortion all the way to the moment of birth. he is wrong when he says the leader terms are all because of this. 88% past 15 weeks are in fact the elective from the for the data. he does not give data there. but that is really extreme to take your tax dollars and to do this all the way up to the moment of birth. he did not answer your question about any type of protections at

all for a baby that has a beating heart, i can feel pain. >> sean: all right. hold on. >> governor newsom: this is an important conversation, will you or will you not support -- >> governor desantis: why didn't you -- >> governor newsom: will you not support a national ban if it lands on your desk? >> sean: gentlemen, we are moving onto the next issue. >> governor newsom: the american people should know this. he can't answer it. he will sign that extreme -- term of let me move on. >> governor newsom: the american people should know that. >> sean: i will call this the lightning round. it would be great if you guys cooperated. a want to ask you, we know that federal policy does have a huge impact on the states. i'm going to ask you three simple questions and i just want one word answers. >> governor desantis: we will do our best. >> sean: we are coming up on break. joe biden is president. so i would like both of you to give a grade to joe biden

overall as president, governor newsom, i will -- >> governor newsom: letter a. >> sean: governor desantis? >> governor newsom: failed. >> sean: f, failure. number two, are his policies helping or hurting your individual states? is it helping the state of florida? >> governor desantis: the inflation is hurting our state big time. >> sean: is it helping the state of california? >> governor newsom: thank you, joe biden. it is absolutely accelerating our dominance in manufacturing and accelerating eric -- >> sean: that was a simple answer. >> governor newsom: absolutely yes. >> sean: i will ask you, governor desantis, i have played over and over again, and governor newsom, you have seen over and over again, joe biden's experience what i believe to be significant cognitive decline. and in other words, it is the toughest job in the world. is joe biden experiencing this cognitive decline, is it a

danger to the country? do you find what he speaks what is your reaction to it? >> governor desantis: yes, he is in decline. yes, it is a danger to the country. he has no business running for president. and gavin newsom agrees with that. he won't say that. that is why he is running his shadow campaign. he should not be running. he is not up to the job. and it is dangerous for this country. >> governor newsom: i will take joe biden in 100 versus ron desantis any day of the week at any age. >> governor desantis: you think he is up to the job? you think he is 100%? 100%? >> governor newsom: by the way, results matter. inflation now is down to 3.2%. wages are up to 4.4%. the economy is booming. 5.2%. gdp growth in the last quarter. those are facts you don't hear on fox news. 14 million jobs, 10 times those. >> sean: let me move on. i was the lightning round. on march 31st, 1968, president lyndon b. johnson, famously said, i shall not seek and i

will not accept the nomination of my party for another term as your proposed intact now, despite being an incumbent president who was eligible to run for reelection, governor newsom, i have interviewed you twice on this issue. you say you are not running for president in 2024. in fact, you recently said, quote, you think that vice president harris is the one lined up to run for president if joe biden were to bow out. governor newsom, i ask you, will you make an lbj-like statement and governor desantis, you say he is running a shadow campaign. in your response, i would like you to answer that. really say unequivocally, i don't know circumstances are you running -- >> governor newsom: correct. i don't know how many times i can say this. you are making this stuff up about a shadow campaign. >> sean: if at the dnc campaign they ask you to run -- >> governor newsom: joe biden will be our nominee in a matter of weeks. in a matter of weeks, sean, we will be endorsing -- he will be

endorsing donald trump. trouble if they come to you and joe is incapable of asking, are you a hard know? >> governor newsom: he is doing fantastically. i appreciate and respect the work the president is doing in the vice president, biden/harris campaign and team so absolutely unequivocally. >> sean: harris would be the next question? >> governor newsom: president biden will be reelected. donald trump will be rejected. >> governor desantis: i think what he is saying should color every single thing. he says joe biden is 100% up to the job. you know that is not true. anybody that can look, he wants you to believe him over your own lying eyes. when he says the economy is so great, how great is it when you are going to the grocery store now? how great is it when you are trying to avoid a home? how are those interest rates doing? what about affording a new car? we have to get real here. we have to understand that biden does here is i think the probl problem. what biden would do, the people around him, they would look to

california for the model to go forward in the next four years. that would accelerate the decline of this country. freedom is what works. the failures need to be left in the dustbin. >> governor newsom: till that to the women you are trying to criminalize in your state. >> sean: we are creating to hold ground. and gentlemen -- >> governor newsom: it is not a state of freedom. >> i to accomplish the policies that have the impact on the citizens. for years, a gallon of gasoline, governor newsom, in california, has been notably higher. in your state, then in the state of florida. here are the numbers. was the numbers. the average cost of a gallon of gas nationwide just over $3.24. in florida, three dollars, 17 cents and california, it is a whopping $4.85. so governor newsom, i ask you, you have also sued big oil companies alleging executives have deceived the public about

the health of our planet, knowing that it is a polluter. your lawsuit is successful, that would likely mean a higher gas prices, even higher gas prices for everybody. here is my question. can you name right now one source of energy that you could bring online in the next three to six months that would be as inexpensive for the people in this country as fossil fuels. >> governor newsom: let me -- >> sean: can you think of that answer? >> governor newsom: i'm going to get to your question. the first part of the question, you are absolutely right. since the 1980s, a republican and restrictions, democratic administration's have experienced under their stewardship, experience higher gas prices in the state of california. we have been ripped off by big oil. we continue to be ripped off by big oil. big oil now is met a new foe and that is the state of california. the most aggressive anti-gouging law in america for transparency and being required in america and yes, we are suing.

we are suing the industry responsible for this climate crisis. the same climate crisis that ron desantis celebrated as human cost, campaign for a fracking ban, who campaign to oppose offshore oil drilling and then two days after he got elected side an accident of order executive order the way nikki haley, signed an executive order doubling down saying you are adamantly opposed to fracking, adamantly opposed offshore oil drilling. you were celebrated by the sierra club for that action. until you were not. it shows the hypocrisy of ron desantis. now you are running away from climate change as things have gotten worse. hurricanes, wild fires, droughts, and floods. $179 billion of weather-related disasters and he has no response except talking points for big oil. >> governor desantis: that was a

mouthful. here's the thing. california is the only one that all companies are gouging? why aren't they doing that for georgia or florida? it is because of their policies? that is why people are paying more there. but gavin newsom wants to do, what he is doing in california, his government dictated green energy policies. they want to kneecap fossil fuels and reliable energy. we have seen what is happening in california. they have rolling blackouts. he actually implemented a mandate to buy electric vehicles. so pretty soon in california, you are not going to be able to buy a normal car. only electric vehicles and they celebrate that as a great thing. a couple days later, there was a notice from the state government telling all ev owners, do not plug in your tv because they don't have enough great capacity. so he is walking his people into a big-time disaster. what biden wants to do is he wants to take the california model. he wants to impose that nationally. he wants to take away your ability to purchase the car that you want.

he wants to kneecap reliable energy and he wants to bring these rolling blackouts all across the united states of america. it does not work. it is going to cause huge problems. we have more energy here we can be the dominant energy -- >> governor newsom: apparently not in florida. you opposed fracking. [overlapping speakers] >> governor desantis: we have all of that. so let's do that. no forcing electric vehicles. >> sean: we got to take a break. when we come back to we will continue the great red state/blue state debate. more with governor ron desantis, more with governor gavin newsom as we continue. thank you for being with us from alpharetta, georgia. ♪ ♪

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>> sean: welcome back to "hannity." the great red state/blue state debate. weekend in with governor gavin newsom, governor ron desantis. according to departments of housing and urban development, these are the numbers for the home is the population in each of your states. in the state of california, it is 172,000. in florida, it is 26,000. now, the per capita numbers are pretty much the same. for california, it is 4 44 -- while florida has -- so governor desantis, i ask you, why the disparity? what are the policies you are implementing that is different from that of california? >> governor desantis: california is adopting leftist policies. governor newsom put out a 10-year plan 20 years.

he was going to end homelessness and then he had another plan and he says he is -- and it has only gotten worse. the homeless has gone up. but it has caused a huge problem with quality of life in california, the people that we always bring up this. they have really empowered lawlessness and drug use and you know, gavin newsom at point try to see that california was the freedom state. i had to last. and then i thought about thought about it. california does have freedoms that some people don't -- that other states don't. you have the freedom to defecate in public in california. you have the freedom to have an open-air drug market and use drugs. you have a freedom if you are an illegal alien to get all of these tax-free benefits. those are freedoms. they are not the freedoms our founding fathers envisioned. they have contributed to the destruction of the quality of life in california and the

results speak for themselves. people are leaving the state because they have failed in addressing the homeless population. >> governor newsom: i love the i love they went on freedom. this is a guy that is criminalizing teachers, librarians, and women that seek their reproductive care. air making it harder to vote. they are banning books. spare me this notion of freedom. ask the folks at disney. ask the folks at the special olympics that you threaten to fine with 27 -- >> governor desantis: you say -- you wanted those athletes to be out there. that is wrong. that is being a liberal bully. >> governor newsom: really? >> governor desantis: you wanted to discriminate against them. they were discriminating against because they were discriminating against the athletes. they wanted to marginalize the athletes and you wanted the athletes marginalize. that was wrong with you that. these are kids with down syndrome that just wanted to compete and you wanted them

—-dash. >> governor newsom: working with -- >> governor desantis: you wanted them to be -- [overlapping speakers] >> governor desantis: you should talk to isabella from florida. she got to participate. we stood up for her rights. >> sean: it is your turn. >> governor newsom: i can handle that. i can handle it. i'm used to it. you know what? your attacks on the trans community -- you attacked vulnerable communities. relax. i can handle it. i'm used to bullies. you are nothing but a bully. i understand that. intimidating and humiliate people. that is your calling card. [overlapping speakers] >> governor newsom: how well is this campaign going if he is not going to let me talk? i will remind you —-dash. >> governor desantis: he wanted them to be excluded. >> sean: gentlemen -- let's go back -- >> governor newsom: as you try to get to about trump.

>> sean: let's go back to homelessness. >> governor newsom: it has been an issue for decades in the state of california ever since we started shutting down our mental health institutions, back in the day and ron regan' as they. the difference is on the first governor -- on the first governor in california history to take this had on. we are investing unprecedented resources. we have gotten 68,000 people off the streets, close to 6,000 encampments. we have also invested unprecedented resources in reforming our behavioral health system that ron has literally the worst mental health system in america. forgive me outside of mississippi and texas and so with all due respect of being lectured on some of these topics, ron desantis is not the one i'm going to be listening to. >> sean: 32nd response. -- 30-second response. >> governor desantis: this is a map of san francisco. this is an app where they plot

the human feces found on the streets of san francisco. it is covered because that is what has happened in one of the previous greatest cities this country has ever had. human feces is now a fact of life, except when a communist dictator comes to town. then they cleaned of the streets. they lined the streets with chinese flags. they did not put american flags there. to clean everything up. they are willing to do it for a communist dictator, but they are not willing to do it for their own people. >> sean: i want to get to two very important issues. after the hamas terror attacks, on october the seventh, we have seen what is nothing short of a disturbing outbreak of virulent hatred, anti-semitism around the world, in the halls of our congress, on american streets, on college campuses, last month, outside sydney opera house in australia, we have seen it all over europe but in australia, anti-israeli protesters chanting

gas the jews. we have protesters calling for global islamic war and demanding that israel be wiped off the map or in the words of congresswoman tlaib, from the river to the sea. according to a report, the new york times this week, u.s. officials have warned israel that they need more to fight more surgically in gaza. governor newsom, 30 seconds for you. we have to cut back on time. how can israel win the war against this terrorist group using surgical strikes and directions from joe biden? >> governor newsom: i visited israel. i met with families, hostages. i saw videos of children being killed in front of their parents. i saw a beheading with a garden how. this is not complicated to me. this is a fight between good and evil. hamas is a terrorist organization and they need to be eliminated, not just for the

people of israel, jews around the world, but for the palestinians themselves, but when it comes to the issue of anti-semitism, you just mentioned a lot of things that have been incurring on ron desantis' watch. he said nothing. >> sean: you are calling him anti-semitic? >> governor newsom: i'm saying -- and now he is finally talking a big game ever since octobe october 7th. >> sean: for the sake of fairness and time, gentlemen —-dash. >> governor newsom: you said nothing on those issues. >> governor desantis: they want to destroy israel and wipe every single jew off the map. biden should not be recapping them. and biden stranded lot of american citizens over there trying to get home. i did an executive order and forward and we sent planes over to israel in the aftermath of october 7th and we saved over 700 americans, mostly floridians but not all, because biden would not do it. finally biden started dumping people in greece and then they

were sending a bill to the americans just to get to greece. if you come to this country illegally, they will pay to value -- fly you all over the place. yet our own citizens fleeing a war zone? they are going to send you a bill? we stepped up. >> sean: i want to return -- we don't have a lot of time. i want to turn to the issue of china. talked about this often. intellectual property theft, unfair trade practices, china has been hostile to our fighter jets in international airspace, hostile to our navy and international waterways. we know all about the china spy balloon that happened eight days read across the united states over military installations. the communist chinese, they have nationals buying up thousands of acres of ranchland, farm land and land near military installations. their hostility toward taiwan. they are, the governors desantis, are number one geopolitical info. i don't see that the biden administration has been tough

with them. what would you do differently? >> governor desantis: in flori florida, we banned china from buying in our state. we also got to confuses institutes out of our universities trend -- china should not be involved in our universities. you need to have hard power in the indo-pacific to deter china's ambitions. you need to take the economy and we need to decouple from china. we are dependent on them for so many things and then finally, we need to get serious about their influence in this country. they should not be able to buy farmland anywhere. i would not go to china and grovel in front of gene. he says china is a partner. china is adding two new coal plants every year. china is laughing at us with what they are doing. so yes, they are the number one threat we face. we need to take it seriously and joe biden is not doing that. >> governor newsom: this is a reminder, you know, i think it is a question some people are probably asking. i know nikki haley's camping is

asking, when are you going to drop out and at least give nikki haley a shot? she laid you out. >> governor desantis: you wish. >> sean: what about china? >> governor newsom: this is a guide who was doing trade -- >> governor desantis: that is false. that has already been to the bank. about the liberal fact checkers. even the liberal patrickis -- >> governor newsom: donald trump codeql for your complete hypocrisy. are confronted xi of the issue of fentanyl. i confronted them. >> governor desantis: on human rights, you did not. >> governor newsom: i absolutely did. you talk a big game. meanwhile, -- >> sean: final question. governor desantis, we owe you about 90 seconds. you get the last word. >> governor newsom: you are giving me five seconds? >> sean: i will be more generous than that. look, it has been a very passionate debate. actually, i think the american

people will decide. governing philosophies could not be more different. let me ask you this, kind of a fun question. you both clearly love your states. you visited each other's state. governor desantis, you can take as much time as you want. you have an extra 90 seconds. what is your favorite thing about the state of california and -- >> governor newsom: i would give him five minutes. >> sean: we will stay longer. five minutes to governor. >> governor desantis: i got orders to go to naval amphibious base coronado. i did not spend really any time in california my life. and i'm proud of the state. but i got down there and that strand is one of the most beautiful places i have ever been. all up and down just a tremendous coastline, i do believe california has more natural advantages than any state in the country, which is why when you have so many people leaving, that is hard to do. people don't want to leave there because it really is such a

beautiful area and i'm proud of their military installations that are there. i'm proud of what the navy has been able to do in conjunction with the state. it was really important duty. it really helped forge me as an individual and as an american. i will always have very fond memories of that nice stranded in southern california. >> governor newsom: i love that. >> sean: what do you love california? >> governor newsom: by the way -- >> sean: what do you love about florida? >> governor newsom: i love the comedy of the question. you know what? we all want to be loved. we all want to be respected and connected. there is a unity. ron, i have no doubt ron desantis loves this country. i love this country. it is not red versus blue. it is red, white, and blue. i think we are all better off when we are all better off. i appreciate this conversation. i appreciate you, ron, being a family man. you got three incredible kids. i appreciate your wife, your

sacrifice, and i appreciate your military service. we do have fundamental differences about the fate and future of this country. that is why i'm going to be working so hard to get joe biden and kamala harris get reelected in 2024. >> sean: you could not resist. you had to go right back to 2024. alright, here's the last. would you do this again? >> governor desantis: i hope we can do another half hour. [overlapping speakers] >> sean: i have another 20 minutes and i have a lot of questions. you want to stay? >> governor newsom: let's do an extended hour. i'm happy to do it. >> sean: i think it has been fun and i think it has been more entertaining. i'm sorry to the guests. i got to take a break. in the meantime, we will face some bills. it is not a cheap set. i hope you like it. courtesy of your favorite channel, fox news, and you do admit you watch. we will take a break. they have agreed to stay. i guess it is a debate on the fly. we will continue on the other side and later have life

postdebate coverage. we are in alpharetta, georgia. the great red state, blue state debate as we continue. ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ >> sean: welcome back to "hannity." by mutual agreement, both candidates have other commitments and they realized afterwards they cannot stay longer. but we appreciate them all being here tonight. okay. when did you think about it? was there a winner, loser, losers? you get to react. and we can keir joining us, cohost of the five, harold ford jr. along with the cohost of outnumbered, kayleigh mcenany, we start with you. that was a very low energy

debate. that is my first observation. >> and mine was the opposite. what an edifying constructive smart hour with fact-based questions. one of the best i have seen in a very long time. was done on your part. in press, when i was press secretary, you ask yourself, do you have a tax problem? or do you have a messaging problem? tonight what you saw was a faxed problem for gavin newsom. they were undeniable. you sourced them and what the public saw was the sharpest best messenger in the democrat party. i maintain that is gavin newsom unable to message the voting power of faxed before hand in the state of california and nationally for joe biden. desantis had some strong moments when he said, look, talk to a guy who said i love the employment down here. i love the wages. i love the state of florida, florida the ohio state -- see if

it is. that was your father-in-law, gavin newsom, also pulling out the map of the feces in san francisco. ron desantis, impossible task for gavin newsom. >> sean: let's get your take, ari fleischer. >> i think watching this, you realize, democrats are from mars and republicans are from venus. they speak totally different languages. ron desantis' language was one of economics, the lockdowns in california, it was very practical, very focused on people's daily lives, the rise in cost of living. if you listen to gavin newsom, his whole message was identity politics, which is the language of the democrats. i don't like the way you talk about migrants. we have to fight for women. everything he says is about an ethnic group, a chunk of americans. it is not about america. and that is the language the democrats respond to. so you really have two different

approaches for what america needs. i will say this. gavin newsom is much more articulate, and sharper than joe biden and if i'm a democrat looking at the presidential race, even if i dismiss ron desantis, i have to worry about joe biden. if that is a difference of just biden's age, as you pointed that out, the final thing i was about the sentence, i don't think that he closed the gap with donald trump tonight. it was a nice night for him and he did well and he has the facts on his side but when you look at the purpose of him being there, which is to win a presidential race, i don't think he closed the gap. >> sean: i can tell you, in the discussion leading up to this that this was a state versus state and although clearly i think gavin at times wanted to talk more presidential politics. harold ford jr., your take? >> so first off, congrats, sean, i thought you did a good job. stayed versus a state and both of these candidates who were

governors, very passionate, patriotic, and defended their records. i think caylee and mr. fletcher all right. what are we said at the end is probably the most useful and may be the utility level is highest. who did best for their parties? i think one of the things and caylee said it, there's no doubt that gavin newsom will be the most important, the most forceful and articulate advocate on behalf of democrats and the 2024 election. and governor desantis, i think, displayed one of the things that republicans are going to have to deal with but how do you talked about the economy? how do you talked about the issues in the face of i think whether we like it or not, or agree or not, one of the more powerful issues in 2024. is going to be this issue of reproductive rights for women. it is not going to overtake everything. but it will certainly be one of the most important issues. i think where we are six months

from today with regard to gas prices and inflation, we will probably determine more about the outcome of the presidential race than anything else. but as it relates to the state issues, florida, california, i was more impressed with ron desantis than i thought i would be. about that governor newsom who i think it's one of the most effective presenters in politics, he was that tonight. i thought that governor desantis laid out very effectively his record in florida. was it able to do what he was able to do in a presidential state? probably not. but tonight, i think he probably fared better. and a lot of other people thought he might have fared against a guy in our party, gavin newsom, who i thought it did well tonight. i thought governor desantis did a pretty good job tonight as well, too, defending his state and his record. >> sean: what did you think, caylee, about the answer when i quoted lbj in terms of gavin. there's a lot of suspicion, a lot of people around the count country, polls or burn this out

more than ever that people are seeing joe biden as weak and frail and in cognitive decline. that was not something that gavin newsom wanted to admit but when you bring up the issue of whether or not if his party came to him, whether he has been very clear in all three interviews that i have had with him, to not being a debate obviously i'm ordering but that he thinks that it would be the vice president, vice president harris and knock him up next. if you say it that often, you have to take somebody at their word, don't you. >> as a prodigal figure, there are certain things you have to say. this is why every single person probably in all of time who has run for president says, oh, no, you know, it you know, it is not wang-tomic. i'm not thinking of that right now. i'm focusing on by state capacity, et cetera and several of them going to run for president. there are certain things you must say. gavin newsom tonight must have said over and over again it is joe biden and then given that had not to kamala harris.

but what i look at or what were the words of gavin newsom leading into the midterm elections? these before the midterm elections, he talks about his fundamental grievances with the coach with his party. they are unable to message. it was someone by his words that seem to be clearly posturing in the event of a red wave. either running himself and taking on joe biden or being the second alternative waiting at the wings and then the red wave did not happen. it crashed and burned and all the sun gavin newsom says, yes, it is you, joe biden, you had a very good midterm election. i think he is waiting in the wings but he can get on the ballot because we have missed several valid deadlines because and i think he is waiting in the event that something goes wrong, democratic party, where they actually ended nominee, he is waiting there. that is the only reason that you do a debate like what we saw tonight going to go toe to toe with someone running himself to be the gop nominee. trevor that is it. re, we will start with you but

how would you grade governor desantis tonight? what grade would you give gavin newsom tonight? >> i would give desantis a b+ in the way he handled the facts. he hardly ever looked gavin newsom in the eye. if you're going to be strong, you need to look at your opponent in the eye. you need to do it always. i would give newsom a d just in terms of his making of the facts, is fabricating, making things up, in terms of being glib, i would give him an a. i don't think i've ever seen a guy stand on beyond deck circle on his back to studying the pitcher and swinging the bat all the while denying that he is going to step up to the plate. that is what gavin newsom was doing. >> sean: harold ford jr.? >> i will give them both b process. i think they did what they had to do to advance where they were. i think if you are governor haley, we think about the presidential race tonight, governor haley probably doing fine tonight and i think in the

presence of -- former president trump probably feeling a much better and if you are president biden, you better sign gavin newsom up to be your chief circuit in this potential race. >> sean: haley, you get the last word. grades? >> desantis gets an a. the clear runaway winner. given the bad probably does pile of facts gets a c. watch out. that guy is coming. he is a rising star in the party. ♪ ♪ >> sean: thank you all three of you. i appreciated. thanks for being with us. when we come back to mark penn and chip roy react t

>> here with more reaction to

chip roy with former senior adviser to the clintons, mark penn. going to have you with. chip, thoughts on tonight? >> great to be on. i think what you saw tonight was a clear distinction between freedom and failure. with -- what you saw was a clear message clear vision for what we have seen occur in florida. versus what we saw occur in california. for that with for that with those who are seeing unprecedented success progressing people flocked there and out of california, you are seeing the kind of policies that gavin newsom was all too proud to associate with joe biden extending his california policies to america where now people see evs, cars, piling up on car dealership lots and inflation driving people away from being able to afford their homes, their cars, their ability to put wheels on the table. you saw a clear distinction. what you saw is you saw governor desantis make the case for why he won by a million 1/2 votes in

florida. wyhe one, 62% of hispanic voters. why he won 60% of single female voters. wyhe my indy day to watch people are flocking to for the and that a clear vision when you have an adult conversation, this is what america needs to see and it was nice to see someone like governor desantis who grew up in the '80s instead of being in his 80s, someone who can lead this country with energy and vision and served for 8 years and you also saw what president trump does not have any interest in debating head to head governor ron desantis. >> sean: let's get your take, mark. >> first, sean, congratulations on the best debate of 2023 for sure. look, i thought it was, you know, except for moments of people calling each other a liar and bully, i thought it was incredibly substantive debate. i thought ron desantis, a look, if you are in the desantis campaign, put the campaign talking points aside. i think pretty happy tonight and

your candidate did really well. he held up extremely well. he was articulate. he was a play to, but he did particularly well on the economy, taxes, immigration and crime. the weakness with social issues. here's where i thought newsom was really passionate, agreed with him or not, he was passionate. he stuck to his ground. he articulated his principles. and broad desantis was stuck with a six-week abortion bill. he really did not want to talk a lot about it. both had good nights. desantis has definitely the best night of his campaign. >> sean: wow, that is high compliment coming from you. if you would to grade, mark, it might as well stay with you. grade both of the debaters, both governors, what would you give them tonight? >> i would give desantis an a minus. he was articulate, a fighter. he did not have a great standout moment. he really was overall did what he needed to do tonight. i probably would give newsom a b

plus. i don't think he was strong on his estate because after all, the numbers were not really that good on his estate. he was passionate about his principles and values and that counts a lot in the democratic party and in the country. >> sean: chip, 15 seconds for you, chip. >> governor desantis did a great job. i give him an a. i think he made a clear and compelling case for why freedom works and why it has worked in florida. and i think, a look, governor newsom, i can't give him a hall pass for being slick and selling a bad state of california because it is bad because of his leadership. he gets an f because california is a feeling state. >> sean: thank you both. appreciate it. that is all the time we have left this evening. thank you for being with next, life, liberty and levin starts right now. ♪