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>> harris: pivotal hearing on whether he is immune from prosecution. >> you can't have a president without an interview, you have to be able to do your job. but if this didn't work out, if i wasn't given immunity, then other presidents, we talked about today, president obama with the drone strikes, which were really bad, they were mistakes, terrible mistakes, you can't put a price on that position. i think most people understand it and feel confident that eventually hopefully at this level, but eventually we win. a president has to have immunity. >> harris: this is "outnumbered," i'm harris faulkner here with co-host kayleigh mcenany and emily compagno. also joining us today host of

the kennedy saves the world podcast, kennedy and fox news contribute dr. marc siegel. the hearing wrapped up this morning and decision from a three-judge panel is expected to come within days. donald trump attorneys argue prosecuting a former president would open a pandora's box. >> to authorize prosecution of a president for official actses would open a pandora's box from which this nation my never recover. >> harris: special counsel office urged the judges to deny trump's immune claims saying no president is above the law. >> what kind of world are we living in is if as i understand my friends onful other side here president orders seal team to assassinate political rival and

resigns before impeachment, not a criminal act? >> harris: critical point there to me, dr. siegel, the president laying everything out for america and his own words. he is flanked by attorneys and all of that as only he does. >> dr. siegel: so articulate, but a president has to have immunity. nobody is contesting that. while he is president, he has immunity. does a former president have immunity? nixon fitsgerald protected nixon from civil action, but not necessarily against criminal action. on the other hand, trump coming out speaking is really good, this is playing out as circus, democrats are trying to push this process and right now with what is going on, it is not going to play out in the time the democrats want because trump

is going to appeal and it will not go to the supreme court so fast, the supreme court already said that. >> harris: excellent point. by slowing down the timeline special counsel jack smith gets caught between it might not be march 4, two days before super tuesday, then what does it look like closer to an election if chosen to be nominee for republicans in the primary season? are you going to go after that person? it gets complicated. >> kayleigh: it gets very complicated, a lot depends how swiftly the court rules. we want to appeal to the supreme court. this takes time and pushing that march date further and further back. it gets closer and closer to a presidential election. jonathan turley said this is uphill battle argument. i listened to oral arguments and

judges seemed skeptical. put the immine utdefense aside, more broadly, impeachment designed for high crimes, you had bill clinton impeached and used against trump and now trying to be used against president biden. you have ballot disqualification, the 14th amendment used twice in history. i make these cases to say, take away one defense of the president and people question the legitimacy of the supreme court. we are seeing that across the country. >> harris: emily, what stood out to you in court today? >> emily: to provide x's and

o's, reminder trump moved to mismiss immediately and december 1, motion to dismiss was not granted. we're at the appellate level. all the former president's arguments and why special counsel is arguing against it. president trump is saying, i was president at the time and immune from it. he is arguing there is no blanket protection for criminal behavior. if presidents enjoy immunity, he is arguing trump acted oud of official duties so when immunity exist in that realm, it doesn't apply here and trump is arguing if you allow prosecution like this, it would stop presidents from carrying out their duties. i will scare off future presidents for fear of criminal prosecution. jack smith said multiple

safeguards are in place and protects presidents. he keeps arguing that the behavior we are alleging is outside the bound and won't deter normal course of action and behavior. the acquittal render this violation of the prosecution conviction against double jeopardy. he said, i was tried and acquitted, no second bite. they are arguing this is a separate allegation and charge and doesn't apply. both argue this threatenings democracy. both arguing and this is against landscape, there is no presidents here. nixon only applies to a certain argument. both sides cited cases. it is not set in stone.

to your point about the prosecution asked please rule quickly. please put this into action within five days. if that occurs, it limiting losing party when they request an appeal, they would have to do so in a tiny amount of time. so look for that. we know the supreme court turned out earlier appeal and doesn't preclude them from accepting this on appeal. >> harris: kennedy, will you allow me time to ask emily how does that affect the ballot cases like in colorado when they say it was insurrection, this was amendment 14. does immunity play in those cases? >> emily: the short answer would be while this is appealed, it would be stayed and that is what we're seeing in appeal of ballot charges in colorado we discussed yesterday or removal of his name. it will be there in the interim and pauses life while we wait to see what the final arbiter says.

>> kennedy: what is interesting and i'd be curious your take on this. everyone trying to put words in the mouths of the forefathers. they would never want a president to commit crimes, but they wouldn't want a president criminally prosecuted as a political tool. it seems clear they carved out clear mechanism for things like impeachment, which is supposed to be a special process for the president. so it feels like we have a lot of constitutional tests here and you use the word unprecedented and there may not be a lot of case law that determines what happens going forward. could this bring us to constitutional crisis? >> emily: it would bring us to constitutional crisis if people pointed fingers at the supreme court and yourn undermined rule

of law there. the power that is important, it rendered people powerless against decisions. if decisions are wrong, it is up to the court to correct. it is having faith in the system as it standing. whatever the decisions are, people respect courts rather than trashing them and to your point, that argue, you are right, both sides bring up founder arguments. >> kennedy: and 14th amendment which senator mike lee pointed out does not apply to the president and the president had not been charged with insurrection. >> emily: both sides are holding steadfast to what the forefathers meant in their arguments. >> harris: there was a moment when the former president donald trump compared his situation, he

made a comparison to that of former president obama with the drone strikes and the criticism from what he called mistakes. even this president said he made mistakes, but obama had immunity. watch this moment. >> if i wasn't given immunity, other presidents, president obama with the drone strikes, which were very bad. they were mistakes, terrible mistakes. you can't put a president in that position. >> harris: kayleigh, we are looking back at things accused of doing post his presidency and saying, look, you're president and when you see a former president on the street, i wonder if he's not thinking like many americans, we call them

president. we see them. i do think there is room for a lot of explanation perhaps from jack smith, perhaps from someone as to laying out really what the nomen clatture is going to be for president going forward. >> kaylee: key to obama and drone strikes and president trump, was obama acting in official capacity when he executed a drone strike and was president trump acting in official capacity, that distinction is where the prosecution will play in on. one key moment has to be mentioned. the judge asked, yes or no, could president who ordered to assassinate a political rival be subject to criminal prosecution. trump's attorney had to answer that question, we're talking about outer bounds of presidential immunity, it is fairly obvious someone would not get presidential immunity, tough for the judge to dance around

and we'll see what happens. >> dr. siegel: speed of this and emily spoke to this. the faster they push it, the change with super tuesday coming up, jamming in a trial, trump gets to appeal to the d.c. court. that is the problem, it feels political. >> harris: that is where i started with kayleigh, trial set for march 4th and super tuesday on the 6th and if he comes out heir apparent at that point, it is very close to election day. coming up, why former first lady michelle obama's comments with the 2024 election have gone viral. directv sports central brings your games stats and scores together and now you can get it without a satellite. one more reason to finally get rid of cable. but getting rid of the cable guy...

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>> kennedy: it is already getting to michelle obama, the former first lady sat down for a podcast interview and was asked what keeps you up at night. >> those are the things that keep me up, because you don't have control over them and you wonder where are people, where are we in this? where are our hearts? what will happen in this income election, i'm terrified about what could possibly happen. our leaders matter. who we selects, who speaks for us, who holds that bully pulpit affect us in ways people take for granted.

fact people think, government, does it really do anything? i'm like, my god, does government do everything for us, we cannot take democracy for granted. >> kayleigh: what about this? >> president biden: donald trump and maga republican represent extremism that threatens very foundation of our republic. trump and maga supporters laugh about it and call those who oppose him vermin. he talk about the blood of america being poisoned, echoing the same exact language used in nazi germany. and yet an extreme movement in america, maga republicans led by a defeated president is trying to steal history now. >> kayleigh: so for for this, i guess. >> when someone is cruel or acts like a bully, don't stoop to their level. my motto is when they go low, we

go high. [cheering] >> kayleigh: except for joe. are we surprised? she did tell us she was not proud of america until her husband became president. for first time in my adult lifetime, i'm proud of my country and not just because barack obama has done well, because i think people are hungry for change. i have been desperate to see our country moving in that direction and just not feeling so alone in frustration and disappointment. >> kayleigh: she is only proud when her husband is the president, when they go low, we go high. >> kennedy: she wants to run, now she's talking about politics, if she were concerned, she would be on the campaign trail with joe biden. she is just as concerned about him as donald trump. this is her way of sending out a

canary into the coal mine this could be beginning of her campaign. >> kayleigh: you have schoen, smart guy, if biden bows out, how about michelle obama? popularity rating higher than hillary clinton. >> dr. siegel: kennedy is on to something. democratic national convention is in chicago, great coming out party. notion of saying we're afraid of the recalling guy. she could mean biden or how presidential biden is right now and her fear of the other trump, i don't like that approach. i read a book on fear and foremongering and that is not how to bring this country together. talk about the border and economy. you don't want to talk about those things so you make everyone afraid of the other guy.

>> kayleigh: she insinuated president trump is getting a sweetheart deal. >> other people can be indicted a bunch of times and still run. black man can't. you just learn to be good and in the end, you benefit from that extra resilience. >> kayleigh: sweetheart deal for donald trump, except look at alvin bragg case, with election law expert strongly suggest new york has never before filed case involving a federal campaign. i assume obamas hold "new york times" in high regard unprecedented. >> first 234 years, no president or former president ever been indictd and that changed when president trump was charged by beginning of december, notion or argument he is getting away with something is preposterous and laughable and you contrast that

with as you articulated novel cases being brought that alvin bragg has brought cases we've never seen before, not only in of well, in this context, it is preposterous and she has a sounder legal mind than that and i thought more rationale than that. when she talks about it matters who speaks for us, person speaking for her that speaks for all americans told her she was not black or wouldn't be black if she had not voted for him. two-way street how preposterous and disheartening who is speaking for whom. >> harris: that person was at the talk of president biden saying he had been in that church more than the black people in that audience. he is like elizabeth warren with

skates on. i don't get it, it is not unimaginative move to try to run a black woman against a black indian woman. democrats cannot skip over kamala harris, he billowed her. yeah, he did. you think he liked her after that debate when she called him racist? i will say he didn't. where is renew mexicoeration of gift there? she compained with him on the ticket and scooped up some vote of color and he's going to james clyburn talking about issues. his biggest issue is understanding how different brown and black people are. he's at christian church he doesn't understand and half the pews stand up and they are

shouting him down. whole host of things, if you smack obama sticker on it and it happened to be michelle obama, could solve problems for the party. if they are bold enough to do it. >> kayleigh: he told us he grew up in a synagogue and he's catholic. to this. a strong winter storm forcing gop presidential candidates to change campaign plans and threatening to disrupt the iowa caucuses. providing for your family is a top priority. but what happens when you need affordable health care? christian health care ministries could save you up to 40% today. as a member, you can choose your provider without network restrictions. sign up at your convenience with our anytime enrollment. join a christian community that supports each other's medical expenses, offering

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last-minute campaign places on ice. monitoring the storm. amy. >> you mentioned 49 states, hawaii with flooding and alaska with blizzard, lone hold out is north carolina. 10 to 12 inches in des moines. the storm is continuing. nobody is shaking hands or trying to glad hand in that weather. they have to wait. there was a rare civil emergency for parts of kansas, people had to shelter in place it was so bad last night. winds are fierce and chicago could get aaccumulating snow. heaviest snow is 5.8 in central and southern wisconsin. this is the cold side of the storm. we have a fierce south side of

the storm. this line of storms, the storm goes from canada to gulf of mexico, this line right here impacting millions of people. 10 tornados came through, damage with those, seeing estimates from it. this line in the carolinas, impactful storm flash flooding from carolina and tornado watch until 6:00 and could be expanded. we already have half a million people without power in the country because of this storm. i'm very concerned this number could sky rocket, east coast along i-95 corridor get next punch of the storm, it comes racing in. wind out of southeast. the problem, new york city, you could see winds up to 70 mile per hour. not just at the coast line, in the burrough of new york city

and d.c. to boston and back to the great lakes, massive power concern, match that with wind and the water that comes in. we have a massive storm tonight. this is nasty and will impact i-95 corridor. this is beginning of this. we have another storm coming in before end of the week. a lot happening. the caucus slowed down and will see temperatures falling to 14 degrees. if is cold in iowa. >> kayleigh: very cold. thank you. harris, it is interesting, axios said weather is number one caucus turn-out problem. trump team would say we're ahead by 52 points, ahead by 52 points. that enormous and haley team and desantis team say we've been in

99 counties. >> harris: i'm reading for the kansas city chiefs it will be the coldest for any game. pray for people in harm's way who can't do what they need to do, politics and sports aside. people find a way to go where they need to go. i lived in minnesota, you deal with it and this is important. americans understand where we are right now and i give them credit, stay safe, i think they'll get where they need to go. >> kaylee: trump voters tend to show up rain or shine, been to rallies where they stood in rain and camped overnight. trump team faces curse of heightened expectations. you still got to turn out. >> kennedy: yes, i don't think i have seen more motivated voters. mother nature, i think is lower

on the list than jack smith. expect them to carpool, van pool on the top of snow plows, good feeling they will get to the caucuses. moving to new hampshire, one week later, interesting polling disparity and polling has been off so much. you have boston globe which shows trump ahead of nikki haley 46-26, 20-point lead. move to cnn and this is first poll i've seen with single-digit difference, trump 39 and haley 32, seven-point difference. >> dr. siegel: i think everyone is right, people will go to football games and iowa caucus and desantis will have a big problem if he doesn't show up well in iowa. i think he won't. new hampshire, nikki haley is looking good and south carolina

her home state, she will start looking more and more like the number two, which might mean trump will choose her as number two. >> harris: a former cabinet member of his. >> kayleigh: new hampshire, what is interesting, the contest is meaningless, the dnc pulled delegates away from it. he has williamson not going to beat biden, they know the current president must show up. >> emily: interesting litmus test on part of democratic voters to see if biden is in the forefront or whether people might not show up. inverse to me, it is incumbent on the republican party to do all they can to have their voters vote. we have talked about before

issues with methodology, you cannot predict mother nature come vote day. it cannot be end of day they lose votes because of a snow storm. interesting about when we look at what will make the gop primary field competitive, haley needs to win new hampshire and something would happen to trump to take him out, he would have to drop out or seriously damage in some way, he is the snowball that keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger. he is definitely a shoe in. >> kayleigh: i go back to trump being ahead by 50 in iowa, that is enormous. to this, l.a. times feels bad kamala harris has to stay in d.c. to do her job. that is next.

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it's an idea whose time has come. ♪ >> emily: vice president kamala harris is homesick for california and frustrated she has to spend so much time in washington, d.c. doing her job. the "new york times" is showing sympathy writing for harris impulse to escape washington, for down time at home has been difficult to satisfy over the last few years. i'm sorry, vice president.

president biden made a near weekly habit of returning home to neighboring delaware, the cross-country flight to l.a. is harder to justify unless it includes formal business. trips are camouflaged with an event. and anchored to ush wa wash during the first half of her term to cast tiebreaking votes in the senate. i do not have sympathy. the media, what are they trying to do? engender sympathy for her? that is what you sign up for and you are welcome for serving at the pleasure of the people and hanging out in the naval observatory. >> kayleigh: this is one of the bestes 52s kamala harris has had written about her. remember she began her tenure, kamala harris beat and press was hotta kamala harris and it dissipated when she did a poor

job. this reporter enscribed what the vice president office would have wanted, they talk about sunday dinner and welcoming secret service in. her press team must be happy, clearly sympathetic reporter they found one in the country. >> emily: and note the timing, a lot going on and this is what we are supposed to focus on with the vice president? >> harris: how does it work? do you think there was discussion about getting the article done at a high level? if that is the case, they are sidelining her on purpose for the world to see and make it her fault. she just wants to go home. when woman say we want to step back to spend time at home, no one believes us. a man says that, what is wrong? blah, blah, blah. they will let her wear that stereotype of hey step back and

take of whatever, kids, home life, marriage, whatever it is. maybe they can cue up somebody else. this is not an accident. like she is auditioning for a gig on hgtv. >> kayleigh: maybe because of the poor job she's is doing. >> dr. siegel: l.a. candle maker making her a candle so she has her own scent. and vice president, pence was in charge of the coronavirus task force and kamala was supposed to be in charge of the border. it is off her calendar now. >> emily: kennedy, that is what i wanted to bring up, the

candle. instead of important issues like border, l.a. times spends a pair graph explaining she has her own line of signature candle scents, but won't share that basically staff called and asked to reproduce the 125 candles. sure, you can borrow it, don't replicate the scent. she was on vogue in sneakers and she complained. she is obsessed with petty things, how about doing your job. >> kennedy: to kayleigh's point, entire article is huge distraction from what a failure she has been at her job. first thing i thought when i heard the candle story. remember when paltrow had her candles made. >> harris: i'm scared. unforgivable.

i just died. >> emily: signature note of the vp is jasmine. my hometown. taylor swift has bad blood with "new york times" after it ran an op ed speculating about her sexuality. that is next. introducing ned's plaque psoriasis. he thinks his flaky, red patches are all people see. otezla is the #1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. it can help you get clearer skin. don't use otezla if you're allergic to it. serious allergic reactions can happen. otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. some people taking otezla had depression, suicidal thoughts, or weight loss. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. live in the moment. ask your doctor about otezla.

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>> the first pentagon press briefing since lloyd austin was hospitalized. fox news will be in the room for the briefing, we will go there live and former president trump just wrapped his day in court. what did the federal circuit court judges think of his argument? come join john roberts and me top of the hour. >> emily: taylor swift and her team are furious over recent "new york times" op ed that speculates about her sexuality. look what we made taylor swift

do. times opinion editor claims swift has been dropping hints about queer sexuality throughout her career. she frequently depicts herself trapped in glass closets or regular closets and drops hair pins on tour, dropped hair pins began to appear before queer identity was marketable to main-stream america and suggest to queer people that she is one of us. kennedy, i'm grateful you are here today, you think thoughtfully about this entire subject and to me it opens the door to the question of when one's alignment with a particular society is identifying as a member and how do you feel that impacts alliship taylor swift has stood

behind? >> kennedy: i think she will retract that. she must be saying, this is the thanks i get? she is an ally of the lgbtq community and unashamedly so in the face of social conservatives and never backed down from that and who cares about her sexuality. maybe anna marks has a girl crush on her and this is her way of hitting on her like travis kelce trying to give her a friendship bracelet. liberal media claims they should be doing. >> emily: what struck me about the article, it seemed desperate to put taylor swift in that box as if the writer was hoping taylor swift was queer. it was a long love letter to the notion instead of leaving her

alone. >> kayleigh: rotting pile of manure that is "new york times," that is what they are. this won pulitzer's for russian collusion, tom cotton, we will get rid of your op ed and so on and so forth. how low can you go? are you kidding me? to speculate about someone's sexuality, time person of the year? pontificate about who she is and who she loves? to quote a source cnn business, there is no line some journalists won't cross, welcome to being a republican each and every single day. >> emily: harris, another quote says whether she is conscious or

not, ms. swift signals she has affinity for year identity. some people would say through this signalling, she has come out, at least to us. >> harris: so much for wanting everyone's support, only way to support the lgbtq community is to speak a different language? i remember when this country was trying to teach every black person ebonics, was that going to help us communicate with some other people out there? so insulting. why in the world would you pick on somebody with a brand that could lift you up to places you have never been lifted before just with friendship. why does anybody have to fantasize about sleeping with her, that is what this comes across as. you can't let her be who she is. if you get the wrong pronoun,

you are fired, why is anybody trying to guess if she is binary? why can't she just be taylor swift? are they looking to cancel her? what is the end goal here? you don't have to be like somebody to support them. i didn't have to learn different languages when i went abroad, i ate food without speaking not much english. >> emily: why when she is clear with alliship are they picking apart to fabricate a conclusion. >> dr. siegel: agree, beautiful, she transcends a role model for people, she doesn't have to be lgbtq. you don't have to be jewish to be against antisemitism, do you? >> emily: absolutely, stay with us, guys, more "outnumbered" in

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♪♪ >> no one does big nights like fox, and it is another one here on fox news channel. florida governor ron desantis will join fox news for a town hall in des moines, iowa, 6:00 p.m. eastern. martha, bret will moderate. don't miss a second. pop your corn, your night is made. i don't know if you've been watching, but i mean, that hour is on fire. it really is. and so we look forward to that. by the way on wednesday, we will see donald trump, at 9:00 p.m. eastern, also moderated by martha and bret. a great week. get into politics, six days from the iowa caucuses. that's it for us. "america reports" now. >> sandra: fox news alert, the