shannon: god bless you for how you're using your platform to try to make a difference. of it's inspiring to the rest of us as well. >> thank you so much. shannon: and just a quick note, my podcast, living the bream, dropped a new episode. this week i sat down with the author and founder of the gathering, jenny allen, to talk about her new book, untangle your emotions: naming what you feel and knowing what to do about it. don't we all have some emotions these days? great discussion. that's it for us today. thank you for joining us. i'm shannon bream. have a great week. we'll see you back here next "fox news sunday." ♪ ♪ "life, liberty & levin" starts right now. have a good night. it ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

♪. mark: hello america i am market trend two and this is "life, liberty & levin" sunday. thank you for being here. when i was growing up it wasn't that long ago but long enough, i really look forward to television on saturdays and sundays. particularly in the evening. i was glued to the screen watching the firing line with the great bill buckley. even pbs from time to time particularly when they ran a series of free to choose based on milton freedman's book. we are introduced to great men so many others ronald reagan. i miss that today, i really do. tv has changed a lot. we have and that is okay. i tried to do this program a little differently, slow things

down, think about it, dig a little more deeply even go into the great philosophers and writers and so forth. we have two great guest this evening with victor davis hanson and newt gingrich. i will be a great show not because of me but because of them. but i do want to dig deeply. when you look at what has happened to our justice system and the law, how it is being used against president trump has been distorted at every level local, state, federal, civil. you look at how the media are supportive. you look at mobs and factions of citizens who think this is fantastic, you look at the oval office and joe biden it's behind the scenes and out front now encouraging the sort of thing trying to take trump off of ballots it. trying to rush the appellate process. destroying due process and the

attorney-client privilege is smells to me like the french revolution. have a phony time to get under the guillotine as fast as you can. because we have a country to destroy what we know what is best. we want one party rule we are going to get there by hook or by crook. a book that's one of ronald reagan's favorite certainly one of mine. it's called the law sport in 1801 and born 1850 a young man he worked to the french legislature saw his country destroying itself moving towards socialism and he said which means it will eventually move towards communism. individual liberty, private property rights the whole rule of law is being destroyed he said right in front of our eyes. that is exactly was taking place in this country today, exactly. the horrendous state of the union address the constant coverage of these outrageous rogue prosecutors, all democrats. the rogue democrat judges

appointed by obama and biden. one after the others some elected locally in our inner cities bite democrats all aimed at taking out a man who disagrees with them. i'm in to read a little bit and encourage you to pursue it further on your own it's called the law. unfortunately law by no mean combines itself to proper function. when it has exceeded its proper functions is not done so merely an inconsequential bull and debatable manners. the law has gone further than this. direct opposition to its own purpose these are profound words. the law has been used to destroy its own objective it is been applied to annihilating the justice it was supposed to maintain. to limiting and destroying rights which its real purpose was to respect it. the law has placed the collective force at the disposal of the unscrupulous who wish

without risk to exploit the person, liberty and property of others. it's converted plunder into a rights in order to protect plunder and it is converted lawful defense into a crime in order to punish lawful defense. how was this perversion of the law been accomplished and what has been the results? he was looking at his country the influence that marx was having on his country and throughout europe. he said there's a tendency that's common among people when they can to live and prosper at others is no rash accusation nor does it come from a gloomy non- charitable spirit. bear witness to the incessant wars the mass migration, religious persecution, universal slavery, dishonesty commerce and slavery. this fatal this lie has the nature of man. and the primitive, universal and suppressible instinct that

compels them to satisfy his desires with the least possible pain. men naturally rebel against the injustice of which they are the victims. that is what plunder is organizing for economic plunder when you plunder the liberty of somebody. plunder in its fullest sense it. that is been plunder is organized by law for the profit of those who make the law. all the plundered classes try to somehow enter. peaceful or revolutionary means into making the law. it starts with a few but then everybody wants a piece of the action. everybody wants a piece of the pie according to their degree of enlightenment the plundered classes may propose one of two entirely different purposes. they attempted to obtain a political power. either they make shoes stop lawful plunder or share in it. stop it or share in it. woe to the nation when the latter purpose prevails when

they in turn sees a power to make the law basically saying that everybody is in on it. which destroys the law, justice, liberty and the civil society. until that happens the few practice lawful plunder among the many. the right to participate in the making of laws limited to a few persons. but then participation of the law becomes universal this is why thomas jefferson said you can have tierney in many forms including tyranny of the legislature. if they do not comply with their oath and follow the constitution is placed on them they are tyrannical just because you vote for them does not mean they are not. and then i men seek to balance e conflicting interests but universal plunder is what i am describing. instead of rooting out injustices they make the injustices a general. it says the plundered classes

gain a political power they have a system of reprisals against other classes exactly what's going on for its trump and his supporters right now. they do not abolish legal plunder. i said they emulate their evil predecessors by participating in the legal plunder. even though it is against their own interests. do you understand? in america when you destroy your constitution when you destroy the bill of rights when you destroy due process the whole purpose of a trial when you eliminate attorney client privilege and wh when you targea single man in order to destroy him by hook or by crook with 91 felony charges from the ku klux klan act to federal elections, to the enron obstruction. two documents, do you understand that you destroyed the very foundation of the law and justice that is supposed to

protect you? do you think you perpetrators are going to be unaffected by this? that is what he is saying. it's impossible to introduce into society a greater change in greater evil than this. the conversion of the law into an instrument of plunder in the first place and erases from everyone's conscience the distinction between justice and law. again think about what they doing to trump. no society can exist and le andt the laws are expected to a certain degree. this safest way to make laws respected is to make them respectable. when th law and morality contrat each other this citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense or losing his respect for the law which is what is happening in this country. the two evils are of equal consequence. and it would be difficult for a person to choose between them. to maintain justice this is so much the case in the minds of

the people, law and justice are one of the same thing. there is in all of us a strong disposition to believe anything lawful is also legitimate. this belief is so widespread and mamany persons have erroneously held things are just because the law makes them so. that's in order to make plunder appear just, plunder again beyond the property of plundering of the law the plundering of the justice system. that is in order to make plunder appear justice and sacred to many consciousness. it is only necessary for the law to decree and sanction it. and you hear it today. you are not above the law. wait a minute. the weight you are using it, rewriting it, changing it, n knw it is just because it is the l law. it is just because the government is using it and it is just because the prosecutors are bringing and it is just because the judges are supporting. it's just because were going to

have a trial, we are going have a jury. you say no it's not it is plunder. you are addressing it up. there is justice if you suggest a doubt as to morality of these institutions, it's boldly said you are a dangerous innovator. eight utopian a theorist a subversive. you would shatter upon which society rests hence trump as hitler he's going to be dictator. joined by people in prison it is trump comic trump, trump. this man is a genius he saw was going on in france. right now and had states of america thus he says there exists a law that sanctions slavery or monopoly or oppression or robbery in any form whatsoever it should not be mention how can it be mentioned without damaging the respect which it inspires now. still boozer morality in economy must be taught for the point of view of the law this perverse

law. from the supposition that must be a just law merely because it is a law. this is profoundly important. to help explain what is taking place in this nation. people are being told what's been done to donald trump is just. it is not. it is the criminalization of politics by the perversion of the law. you don't understand we have heard it from leftists all over. we have heard i from people here who are liberal it's been charged 91 times and you are telling me he's not convicted of something? he answers this. this is a moral. this is perverse. this is the destruction of your lawful society. and of course it's going to devour all of us. no longer the people that make the law no longer the people who

make the law and execute the lot just. no longer are the consequences of the law it just. this could apply to what would come later with the soviet union, communist china, communist cuba to islamist, iran and on and on and on. the problem is it's applying to our country. just step back and think about it. are we really willing to accept a democratic administration in the democrat prosecutor and democrat judges imprisoning the former president of the united states? perhaps imprisoning him before the election? is that wit what this has come ? this is the definition of the democrat party. lawless, dictatorial, it's a one-party state this is the undoing of the american system. now you know why i used to like the older shows. and the hosts and how they went

about explaining things. and how they would talk about things like the law i will be right back.

mark: welcome back america. speaking of the shows i used to

watch as a young man with great thinkers and so forth we have an right now. victor davis hanson i have enormous admiration for. victor is at the hoover institution he is a senior fellow among other things. victor davis hanson even though the speech was very forgettable it will go down in history as a footnote to a footnote i what presidents should not say. i still want your take on it since i have not heard. what did you make of the biden speech? lexi only becomes animated and angry when he's talking must own domestic opposition, his fellow americans. in other words he does not to that level of slander alive. he has a deep loathing for half the country because he mischaracterizes them almost every issue he brought up whether it was the deficit, or

crime, or the border what he said was not true and he knew what he said was not true but he felt that he was animated enough and angry enough that media and his supporters would think at least their bad scenes and at first when he attacked a supreme supreme court justices the chambers of congress. or when h talked about people nt paying their fair share of taxes on its own son is been charged with tax evasion and avoidance and he just got a check that said loan repayment that was an obvious mechanism to dodge federal taxes. so i thought it was a disaster myself. hope it's not a precedent to use these occasions to attack, smear cap the country. mark: victor davis hanson wasn't disappointed when the so-called state of the union and the constitution were present as toa

tell congress from his perspective in that branch the status of the country? not to go up there and rant and rave and use it as a massive free in-kind contribution by the networks and others she work a political campaign he seems to abuse and trample in all tradition isn't that what he did? >> yes i thought if he is going to talk about the deficit who would say my fellow americans us is gone over many generations many administrations us come together and find a way to solve this every hundred days we owe a trillion dollars but he did not do any of that. he did not try to have a consensus on the border. he did not have any consensus on crime. he is in denial. and essentially is telling the american people i undid everything my predecessor that has resulted it record the popularity about me the president and my policies in general. they'rtherefrom going to blame e

people for the predicament i am in the predicate to show to my base i can scream and yell and should not be removed at the convention that was the vehicle he used it to convey that. >> ancient history athens and rome and you know better than anybody else the republics don't survive forever you know better than most people that most of the history of the world is not republican paired mo. most of the history of the world is of empire. it is dictators of one form of were in another. genocidal maniacs and so forth. when you have no guarantee it will survive in perpetuity. as a matter fact, none do. do you see the undoing of this country when you look at athens and rome we are kind of repeating a lot of what happened there? >> yes, i do i think the last century the roman republic and the common denominator is there

is no symmetry in the law people use the loft to go after political opponents on the expectation no one would ever do that to them or if they did do that it would be a downward spiral. what we saw with the circus in georgia, what we saw with the horrendous settlement we saw loe and james are saying, all of it all of it we do not have a symmetry of fairness of the application of the laws. i think everybody knows it donald trump and not run for president or fee be that would not a bit a man of wealth he would not of been targeted if you are a conservative or a celebrity especially businessperson in new york you better donate generously to the james or the bragg or the eric adams campaign campaigner you e targeted. that is not america but has precedent in history and it's beyond a republic we have no confidence in the law.

a lot of people of no confidence in the fair application of laws because of this administration. mark: isn't that why the democrat party was a change of voting system and is self righteously proclaims they want more people to vote? so they never lose again isn't that's what going on here? >> the biggest revolution we missweakness was under the prett of covid we went from 70% on average voting on election day to 70% not voting to a mail in valid or absentee ballot. yet the rejection rate of fraudulent ballots died by magnitude under 3.4 from 45 in the states. i think they understood what happened and that's an opportunity. you sit in the audience on the lamb of colorado stood up.

he cited your book, and he said things democrats dare not say today or republica a republicany come under a horrendous attack. which is if you want to destroy america and i will cut to the chase and do exactly what were doing on the border right now that it's how you destroy america. you remember that and what he think about that? >> yes, i do. governor a lamb i remember old fashion census democrat and fought his own party even bill clinton and his white and 90 to 96 of the democratic convention sounded pretty much like donald trump. at least it felt they had to sound that way. this is not naïve, sought incompetence this is a choice this is a deliberate plan to let an eight to 10 thousand people under this new protocol of absentee your mail and validate will give them opportunities to flip states in the way they feel they flip nevada and california

another looking at arizona and it may be georgia or texas. it is all planned and they know it. anybody who objects is considered an advocate of the great replacement theory even when they brag with book titles like demography is destiny of the new democratic majority. they know what they're doing. mark: you destroy the law, you destroy the border and its citizenship. when we come back people are destroying the law and destroying citizenship, i guess they are fundamentally transforming america. do people love their country when they are intentionally entering into policies like this and doing it to the american people? and secondarily have asked this of others white intensive minds of people vote for their own destruction? we will be right

i am jon scott and now back to "life, liberty & levin." ♪ >> welcome back america. victor davis hanson a two-part question. you love your country when you're trying to destroy it like this intentionally. a number two, why do tens of millions of people vote for their own destruction? >> want to be stuck at first i think they either feel that they are not voting for their own destruction because of the power of the media or social media or the corporations or the boardrooms or entertainment. all of these institutions are not just liberal now but they

are all radically progressive. they have a monopoly on the communication and transmission of the news. i think a lot of people are victims of that but more importantly i think they are promised to something they have been told donald trump and the mega- people are dangerous to the republic. they have any means necessary or unallowable to and that republic. i think there has been a radical shift the product of globalization in this century we are enriched beyond measure of ththepeople in the interior wert they feel that was an arbiter on relative morality and genius. they think the losers are bitter and angry and we are the anointed. but they do not understand as they are going to be subject to the consequences of their own ideology we arty see it what some of the pushback in san francisco on ballot measures. there is zip codes and money and neighborhoods cannot protect them from the monsters they have

created. that is going to be interesting to see if they will switch quick enough or at least enough of them will switch before they destroy us. mark: this issue of love/a country. what i listen to biden's speech it doesn't sound like a man who loves his country it sounds like he hates every institution in the country. he sounds like a man that demands every institution bowed to his demands. he sounds like a man who is prepared to further burn down the culture whether it is the border or the justice system. whether it is the economic system, whatever it is women sports and utterly unhinged. and so my question is how is it even possible that a man like that is not 10 percentage points behind to say donald trump? >> i do not know. it is baffling to me he has no empathy for the consequences of his policies. he never talks about the people who were killed through open borders or if he does is only iy

for cheap political gain. there's thousands of people whose lives are disrupted he does not care about the destruction of women sports and what that does to young women he has no concern. he talks about abortion but there's five -- 10,000 partial-birth abortions every year than a big talks about. he's a very callous person and and to make his progressive own that he doesn't care about the human exit he breaks. he likes humanity in the abstract but he doesn't like humans. that came across in that speech. just yelling and screaming at all of these imagined enemies. we are not his enemies but he seems to want us to be his enemies and demonizes i think to destroy us i really do believe that. mark: are we given the permanent state, that massive bureaucracy, the courts, lifelong politicians and how difficult it is to reverse things. even when the win elections the efforts to sabotage efforts

impeachment in criminal investigations. are we still a constitutional republic or are we a post constitutional republic trying to hold on to what is left? >> i think the latter. i think the next two or three elections we estimate you're going to use a republican entirely or crawl back. but i think the problem is we have people who are not elected and have no intentions of turning their policies over for public appeal they are judged during execution during all these policies. they have enormous resources and it's going to be hard to dislodge them and i don't think we have understood that peril the republican party is not understood it. they try to slow down a little bit but i guess we are at the point where the historian said the medicine is worse than the disease. because what is necessary, we all know what is necessary to get rid of cabinet -- hold cavities hold bureaus, cut back

and balanced budget. defang these bureaucrats. but we failed to do so it would be so hard will be called racist be called xenophobe so we are paralyzed. >> we are handed a scarlet letter it's very, very difficult when they controlled the media, the politics of culture, hollywood, the whole kit and caboodle. but we cannot surrender it we've got to keep doing everything we can. that is the only option we have. victor davis hanson and with tho thank you for everything you do, write, say. just fantastic god bless you my friend. >> thank you for having me. mark: and we come back at newt gingrich.

mark: will go back america. a very smart man our fron frient gingrich who used to sit back there to speak a president

speak. i'm sure this time it would've been very difficult it was a grueling exhausting speech. not for biden but for the rest of us. it has been three days since he gave the speech i think it will go down in history if it goes down as all is the worst estate of the union speech in history. but i want to get a little beyond that. i watched this speech it's very upsetting the serial lies and distractions and all the rest. but i started really taking another view of this man, joe biden, he's been around long time we've been around a long time we think you know who he is but the extent his soul of who he really is i thought came out big time during the course of that speech. when you watch that speech, surely in your mind you are thinking similarly, what am i dealing with here what is the nation are we dealing with? what are your thoughts? >> to have someone as a vicious

dishonest liar standing in front of you know you cannot get up and jump in. you cannot hit them of the back of the head. i thought johnson he would not know he would laugh at things that were absurd. going to give him some credit here. i was not surprised i for a long time have concluded joe bonnettd is a dishonest line corrupt person who has no regard for his own country. who is pathetic and his inability to protect america anywhere in the world and who frankly i think is rapidly going to become maybe the second worst president in american history. it is just astonishing to watch him. i thought this speech the other night was beyond the pale i went back and read harry truman 1948 state of the union. it is patriotic, unifying, visionary, the comparison truman

is clearly their model in september and october was very partisan. but in january and february he was the president of the whole country. what we saw the other night as we don't have a commander-in-chief we have a democrat in chief we do not have a president, we have a chairman of the democratic national committee. i think it is a disgraceful performance. mark: he celebrated in the democrat party media for not by very many other people. do you think this is a consequence of him and half a century of him? or do you think he is so chameleonlike it's a democrat party and the radical elements of the democrat party that are leading this direction or is it him late in the party? >> i think he has sort of evolved this way but he is also surrounded now think of this iss the third barack obama term. he is surrounded by

left-wingers. they have a world view radically different than us. we really have in this country to alternative realities. a group of people who believe you bribe the iranians and abandon israel and you accept that people can have 297 different sexual identities et cetera, then you are a good person. they believe that. you have to at least give them credit they are genuinely weird and they are sincerely weird. biden has decided he is part of the weirdness. therefore it has to be good because he is for it. this is in fact probably the most corrupt man to ever be president is a man he was a serial liar he is closer to the sopranos then is to a normal american president. that accomplished two things i and all honest. they proved he could in fact speak energetically for over an

hour i thought pretty intelligently drift out of the house chamber slowly proving he had enough extra energy, enough ability to engage. second they destroyed any effort to get them off the ticket. usd number of democrats jumping up yelling four more years there's not going to be any effort to dump joe biden. if i were donald trump i would feel this is a pretty good speech because he just locked down he is going to be the democratic nominee and as a near-tethe"new york times" repot sunday, but i thought was an amazing article there chief analyst said people just don't like biden. that is his biggest problem break works what is to like? because personality is horrendous. what is to like it? the way he speaks in a tax people? let me ask you this you said he's the second worst a president who was the first i can think of buchanan, i can think of road or wilson, who would you say is the worst? was i think you'd have to say

buchanan because he allowed the south to seize the federal arsenals and allows the concept of secessions or grow under his presidency. if you go back and look at how andrew jackson a generation earlier handled the idea of secession he was going to mobilize the army in south carolina back down. had we hadn't andrew jackson in the 1850s we probably would not have had a civil war. mark: the democrats hate andrew jackson to even though he was a democrat let me ask you this about joe biden. joe biden through and with the worst racist segregation senatosenators imaginal eastlan, stennis, when he came into the senate. he was at not just the young sophomore come into the senate or junior coming into the freshman. he was a leader and wrote legislation he got eastland to back it to oppose immigration and so forth and so on. now he walks around like he's a great hope these are th a saviof

democracy. how dare you challenge him and challenges of viewpoints and so forth. how does he get away with this transition from one of the big time segregationist racist 50 years ago to pretending to be the great hope? >> first 12 delaware 50 years ago was a dramatically more conservative and more southern state it was more sympathetic to jesse helms than it was to john lewis. second, you cannot overstate the importance of the news immediate they're going to cover biden they're going to protect a bite and they're going to defend biden. they hate trump was so deeply that no matter what biden does are going to prop him up because he is the only hope they have of stopping trump to be present again. the prospect of a trump presidency is so terrifying if you are in the news media that anything you can do it no matter how big the light anything you

can do accounts. you may remember in the 1930s and your time won a pulitzer prize for correspondent in moscow who explicitly, deliberately lied about stalin who refused to report on the famine that killed 10 million people in ukraine. it was a generally a despicable person got a pulitzer prize the same thing is going on here this is comparable to the degree to which they lied about castro and the degree to which they lied about stalin and all of the media has joined the "new york times" in a conspiracy of dishonesty trying to prop up biden and more importantly trying to stop donald trump.

♪ ♪. mark: and newt gingrich i will raise it because no one else will. what if the democrats get what they want? what if president trump is found guilty of one of these and 91 bogus charges? and they can say he is a convicted felon. these courts are so corrupt they may not allow them to appeal in a timely way maybe they wanted and stay the sentence are we to expect 70 million americans are going to tolerate that and put up with it and be happy on inauguration day with joe biden? how is this going to play itself

out do you think? >> you are going to have turmoil either way. if trump wind chill have tour mall on the left of trump losers are going to have turmoil on the right. we are not headed toward a picnic right now. we are headed to a huge cultural crisis. between a totalitarian left and everybody else in america. the problem the left is facing with every passing week that is more obvious the justice system is corrupt. it is more obvious the whole thing is rigged. that builds a momentum for tru trump. it would be an enormously dangerous thing for them to move forward and at some point i have a hunch i could be totally wrong but at some point i have a hunch the attorn attorney general's go pull the plug and say you really cannot try someone in summer and fall of a presidential election it is not sustainable.

and i think as it sinks in you will see members of the house and senate go crazy producing governors and attorney general's go crazy but they're all going to say this is totally unsustainable and you cannot do it. one of the breakpoints was the size of the fine totally illegitimate and dishonest left wing a judge leveled in new york all the sudden people looked up and said that's crazy. and i think day by day more americans realize you have a system which is deeply, seriously corrupt at levels we have never imagined. mark: i could be quite wrong i would bet a dollar the attorney general does not intervene to stop a thing. he's going to do what he ought to do it now. he has many opportunities to do it and he is not taking any. i think a plate till the end of the wire but here's the problem and the reality despite the media and the propaganda, and unfortunately this is considered counterintuitive and i believe

it is intuitive. if donald trump does not win we are going to lose our justice system forever. we are going to lose the traditions, these are practicesr constitutional system forever. you are an expert on these things. but the radical left those weather in our society or other societies they project onto their opponents who they are and what they actually believe they use a propaganda to push it. so today and he want to destroy the electoral system. it is they who are more marxist and that is why they project that and character assassinate trump. your final thoughts? but that's exactly why the supreme court voted nine -- zero the democrats in colorado not trenton. were a threat to democracy. while they're sitting in the state of the unit unprecedented because from the standpoint of

the left of th the supreme coury be the last of defending liberty. at such a profound point very important. but you better rule our way on immunity had better do this and you better do that party threatened it with packing it roosevelt did, they do now. it's quite terrible they are attacking all these institutions, constitutional institutions including the founders were there waving around the constitution. newt gingrich, you are a national treasure pray thank you my friend and god bless you sir. force factor total beets is the number one beets brand in america. that's why friends and family recommend total beets. now you can find total beets blood pressure chews at walmart so you can boost nitric oxide,

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shipping is always free. go to dealdash.com right now and see how much you can save. >> welcome back america, obviously events around us are very daunting, we can surrender, we can give up, our forefathers did not they refused. i get asked all the time and i

may have mentioned one before we going to win the election are you optimistic or pessimistic, mark, whatever, i'm not a nostradamus, why does it matter what matters we fight and don't give up. you think george washington was contemplating what he get whethe was off to the surpassed muslim lost the battles against british at valley forge when he could examine up to other battles in the odds seemed overwhelming and great and we one after eight years. my answer, don't even ask the question about spirit, motivation, patriotism. the good guys need to win. we are the good guys. see you next time on lif liberty and love and ♪ ♪