make a life-saving difference. it's your prayers and gifts that give hope to the people of israel. call, scan, or visit our website now to make your life-saving donation. howard: this is a fox news alert. the first direct attack by iran against israel, more than 300 drones and missiles has caused little damage because of

israel's sophisticated missile defense system with help from u.s. forces shooting down rockets a well. >> translator: approximately 170 unmanned aerial vehicles that iran launched, 0 crossed into israeli territory. howard: a few dozen israel israeli -- israelis were injured and there was minor damage to a military base. trey yingst in israel, fox and others are reporting that president biden in a phone call has urged bibi netanyahu not to retaliate since iran has framed this as its retaliation for israel's killing of three top commanders in syria. what is the choice facing netanyahu right now holding back from if another round of attacks or not? >> reporter: yeah. hey that, or howie, good morning. israel has a very difficult decision to the make and that's how to respond to this massive drone and missile attack overnight directed from iranian territory targeting this

country. finish now, it's a decision that is based on recent history. member remember, israel has been at war for more than six months against hamas inside gaza, and following their response to back saturday is, october 7th, and the massacre in southern israel, israel started to lose western support including that critical support from the united states. they've since gained it back. the tone from the biden administration shifted in a matter of 48 hours. the president went from saying at the israelis were making a mistake in gaza and threatening to pull american support both politically and militarily from this country, well, now they have stood behind israel as they faced an unprecedented attack from iran. and the question will be if the israelis see it as worthy of a response. are they willing to risk the relationship with washington and their other western allies to hit back against iran, targeting a variety of different positions in iranian territory, or will

they wait? they held a meeting today with the car -- war cabinet here in tel aviv the make that very decision. howard: was this largely about saving face for iran? the iranians must have known that most of these drones and missiles would be shot down by israeli defense systems, and they were saying, well, our response is over even before it was over. so maybe they didn't really intend to cause much damage? >> reporter: absolutely. and when you think back to why the attack overnight took place, it was a direct response to an israeli attack on april 1 1st that killed a top iranian general along with six other members of iran's irgc at one of their linked buildings in damascus, syria. and so it was a significant attack conducted by the israelis that drew this response. the iranians felt they had to do something. they say a red line was crossed. but they're also playing politics in the region. they went to the united nations to say that there was a violation against their

country's sovereignty because the building belonged to the iranian consulate in damascus, syria. howe to howe yeah. >> reporter: but also this is a country that is constantly violating international law. so when they go to the united missions and ask for support, they also have to consider their actions across the ream. howard: and, trey, just briefly, president biden condemned the attack in the strongest possible terms. has america's help along with the british and the french in shooting down some of these rockets now changed what was a very fraught if relationship as you described between joe biden and bibi netanyahu, or since we still have the questions about an invasion of rafah, could this just be a temporary coming together? >> reporter: this could certainly be a temporary coming together, but it also defines a red line for the united states when it comes to attacks against israel. israel faced thousands of rockets from a hamas and islamic jihad over the past six months. the americans supplied weapons,

bombs and also missile defense interceptors for israel's smallest system, the iron dome. what took place last night was totally different. ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, swarms of attack drones. the americans were looking to send a message to the iranians that these large scale attacks will not go unmet and that the americans will stand behind the israelis to help them if they are attacked on a large scale. howard: right. >> reporter: and that was the message sent last night. it does not mean if israel will be immune to other criticism when it comes to their operation inside gaza. howard: yeah. i think this that particular message was received. trey yingst, thank you very much. stay safe. joining us now to analyze the coverage, caroline downey, a reporter for national review, and in los angeles, leslie marshall, the radio talk show host and fox news contributor. caroline, there's been no u.s. aid a to israel for months because of part a san gridlock on capitol hill -- partisan gridlock. what about change -- will that change now?

>> i think now there's this, just like after october 7th, there's this unique solidarity we're seeing from if both sides of the aisle. however, with the democrats it seems to be fleeting because as much as chuck schumer is now supporting israel with open arms, a week ago he was calling for regime change in israel. so, again, we have to stay on the pulse of what these politicians, what their tone is. and in the next week as soon as israel tries to fight back because this is the same old story, tale as old as time, if israel takes it and just absorbs the attack, then we say, okay, israel, you know, you're not doing anything wrong, like, we're so sorry that happened to you. but if they try to defend themselves, then it's all over. howard: well, mike johnson was on maria bartiromo's show last hour and said we stand with israel but didn't giver any indication about breaking that -- give any indication about breaking that impapas, leslie. if he put an israeli aid bill on the house floor tomorrow, wouldn't it pass easily?

>> i'm not sure. i mean, i think that we've seen even though fisa a was eventually passed, i think we have seen over after a dozen times bells that should have had either bipartisan support or should have easily passed, you know, at least along party lines with republicans. he has, you know, a pop within his own party -- problem within his own party, people disgruntled with him or align themselves with the former president depending on the legislation at hand. so i think it would be problematic due to that fragmentation howie. but i want to say something regarding, you know, this attack. iran said they were going to do it, and i think it is obvious that this was a message because iran did it. not hezbollah. and hezbollah actually has, you know, many more missiles of which you were accurate, 99% of these 300 were intercepted, and iran knew they would be interseptemberred. howard: yeah. >> but the minister of israel, gant, said, quote, israel would

exact a price from iran in a way and time that suits us. so is it might if happen or it might not happen. howard: right. i think, by the way, that schumer would say that he was doing -- was taking the stand that bibi should resign. some israelis agree with it, in the interest of israel. we can debate that another time. so, caroline, biden kept telling iran don't. whenever he was asked, he said, don't. so iran did. now even though the missiles did little damage, some media conservatives are saying this showed weakness on his part. is that fair? if what else was he supposed to do? >> howie, my domain is politics. one thing i've been observing on social media is there's a 2018 between circulating in which trump warned iran not to threaten the u.s., or they'd suffer the consequences. i think it's going to unrock new nostalgia for trump's foreign policy. in 2018 "the new york times" said that trump pushed the u.s. to the, quote, brink of war with iran. the nation accused trump of

trying to spark such a conflict for his re-election prospect and all of these legacy outlets said that the soleimani strike which responded to iran's provocation was reckless endangerment and escalation. turns out that was effective deterrence. that scared the regime. and so what we need to see here is less of this much talk and more action from biden. and his actions speak very loud. i mean, he listed -- lifted the economic sanctions against iran. that allowed for the transfer of $6 billion to the war chest of iran. howard: well, leslie, on the other hand, media liberals are saying that joe biden, this was a success. the u.s. did what biden said it would do, ironclad commitment,. it helped shoot down dozens of missiles. now biden wants to prevent a wider war. isn't that in israel's interest as well? >> yes, because when president biden said don't, it's not weakness. look, the art of war, number one, is the element of surprise. you hear that in the minister of

israel, prime minister of israel's remark. you also hear that in joe biden's remark. you don't show your hand especially in this day and age where people kind of know your chess move, you know, ten days before. and and that's not only ineffective, it's not safe for your citizens. look, israel has stepped up their escalation of attacks on iran, on different sites in syria, and in the past they have largely really tried to avoid casualties. and that wasn't the case here. it's not just, hey, syria, this is what you get for dealing with iran. it's like, hey, iran -- howard: right, i gotta get a break. >> so i don't think -- howard: more on israel later. more on israel later. when we come back, donald trump drug media flak for disclosing his stance on abortion. ♪ new neutrogena hydro boost water cream. a vital boost of nine times more hydration*

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howard: when i asked is donald trump about abortion this in our mar-a-lago sitdowndown, he made pretty clear he faired a ban after four months of pregnancy. you were quoted as saying to one of your aides, well, i like 16 weeks because it's a nice round number, 4 months. do you think that could be politically acceptable? >> so we're going to find out and pretty soon i'm going to be making a decision. finish and i would like to see if we could do that at all a, howie, i would hike to see if we could make both sides happy. howard: when the former president made his announcement this week, there was no the mention of any time limit or any ban. >> the states will determine by vote or legislation or perhaps both, and whatever they decide must be the law of the land. in this case, the law of the state. many states will be different. many will have a different number of weeks or some will have more conservative than

others. howard: trump said in the video almost verbatim what he told me, the democrats are the radicals because they favor late-term abortion. there were two factions, the trump camp and the more cautious one. that led to these headlines, new york times, trump chose politics over principle. politico, why trump balked on an abortion ban. pure politics. joe biden ripped trump but only in statement, and pro-lifers criticized him as well especially his pal, lind i graham -- lindsey graham, who compared trump's stance to the dred scott ruling on slavery. trump hit back saying the senator was doing a disservice to the country. the pundits, of course, were deeply divided. >> republicans fought for 50 years to get roe overturn and, courtesy of trump, they finally succeeded. but didn't he do the thing, the only thing really he could do at this point without committing political suicide? >> the substantive new and important thing articulated by donald trump today was that he has now abandoned any criticism

he once had for the strictest abortion bans that are now in effect or under consideration. howard: caroline downey, why did trump, after seeming to embrace a 15 or 16-week ban with me and others, take this more minimal approach of saying, as the supreme court had already ruled, that this should just be left open to the states? >> i mean, look, howie, it's well documented that trump is a populist more than a principled conservative, so he really tries to keep his pulse on the people. and it's well known to even our movement, the conservative movement, that we have not won the argument yet in culture. and so, you know, as it remains to be seen with trump appointing the judges to the supreme court, that was to overturn roe which even progressives recognized was bad law are. and as you know, howie,, the constitution -- howard: not all progressives. anyway, he owns that a because he made it happen. >> yes. but that was to defer the issue to the states because the constitution says absolutely nothing about abortion. howard: yeah. >> but, of course, there's been

many mainstream outlets that have claimed trump's record is grossly inconsistent. you know, the guardian said that he was kind of weaponizing this profession position, cnn says that he's changed his profession 15 times in the last 25 years. howard: yeah. >> and so it's, at the end of the day if you follow his evolution, he's just trying to keep his pulse on the people, and he just wants to deescalate the issue. howard: leslie, didn't he deliver a wink and a nod by talking about with me and others 15 weeks, 16 weeks, kind of saying this is what i would really like to do but not doing it because he took the cautious approach? >> yeah. i mean, you can say keep your finger on the pulse and the people, or you can say i want to win. what can i say to win. and what can i say at that a time to win. look, sorry, i can say it about mitt romney when he was in my home state of massachusetts running for governor, he was pro-choice. but then all of a sudden he became pro-life, and he was

pro-life before that. many politicians change their minds and change their stance. and there are a lot of people out there, myself included, that wouldn't trust somebody like donald trump especially saying i won't sign it if it gets to my desk. not sure i buy that. he does say let's put it to the states, but that is still a concern. and we know it's a concern. and it's a concern of republicans. nikki haley even said, and i thought it was a very good statement, we need to be pro-life yet figure out how to be pro-woman as well as. howard: okay. >> it's a problem when you look at the numbers for republicans. abox -- abortion with, democrats exceedingly lead donald trump, so it's very clear what he's doing. he's trying to get a leg up on one area where joe biden beats him heavily. howard: caroline, some pro-life groups and advocates are very disappointed. one says this is his divorce from the pro-life movement. do you agree with that? >> well, there is still some debate within national review. andy mccarthy kind of ec knowed what i just -- echoed

which is the deescalate the abortion politics, defer it to the states is, in fact, in line with even what anthony scalia had written in some -- howard: trump told me you've bot to follow your heart but also win elections. >> that's what i want to say, that statement is parroting way too closely pro-choicers. many pro-lifers did feel abandoned by that because once he said that the, he didn't even say, well, in those states where federalism will prevail, he's not even advocating for pro-life laws in those states. he could have at least have said i think pro-life laws should succeed, but he didn't. he was silent. leapt us just follow the proper course, deescalating from the federal government to the states. howard: well, or you know, the biden team, meanwhile, has been hobbying the press -- lobbying the press to portray donald trump's stance as much more negative as east really for a ban but he won't tell you and so forth. here's a press call, play the

audio from the deputy communications directer of the biden camp talking to reporters. >> trump kept his word to overturn roe in his last term, and he will not rest until he has banned abortion across the entire country, period. we all know this, and the coverage needs to reflect it. howard: and some, like "usa today," actually changed headlines as a result. leslie, what do you make of this bit of exertion on the press? they have every right to do it, but is it a little heavy handed? >> look, i'm hearing a lot of opinion nowadays when it's about joe biden or donald trump, and it's obviously more opinion than what he said. but with, look, we also have on video, howie, that he said before he felt doctors should be prosecuted for performing abortions. so, you know, just because you say it and you have the reel to go with it that you can watch and listen to at the same time, you know, doesn't mean that somebody can't change their mind and, you know, turn around if from that. we have seen the impact of the

issue of abortion not just in the midterm election, but with we certainly saw it in the state of ohio -- howard: right. >> it's going to be a big issue among voter, and, you know, except for the evangelicals which donald trump really does need to get him over the finish line if he wants to be president again, you know, this is the an issue that will bring people out to vote against him. howard: i will pet put you down as skeptical, leslie. again, i've got to get a break. up next, how a drastic move by arizona's supreme court is changing the abortion debate. ♪ not a game. not a game! we're talking about cashbackin. we're talking about cashbackin. we're not talking about practice? no. we're talking about cashbackin. we're talking about cashbackin. we're talking about cashbackin. not a game! we've been talking about practice for too long. -word. -no practice. we're talking about cashbackin. we're talking about cashbackin. i mean, we're not talking about a game! cashback like a pro with chase freedom unlimited.

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(vo) austedo xr can cause depression, suicidal thoughts, or actions in patients with huntington's disease. pay close attention to and call your doctor if you become depressed, have sudden changes in mood, or have suicidal thoughts. don't take if you have liver problems, are taking reserpine, tetrabenazine, or valbenazine. austedo xr may cause irregular or fast heartbeat, or abnormal movements. seek help for fever, stiff muscles, problems thinking, or sweating. common side effects include inflammation of the nose and throat, insomnia and sleepiness. ♪as you go with austedo♪ ask your doctor for austedo xr. ♪austedo xr♪ howard: the day after trump's video on abortion, arizona's highest court revived an 1864 law passed by a white man during the civil is war when women couldn't vote, there was no electricity and arizona was just a territory which outlawed abortion except to save the mother's life and mandated prison terms for providers. reporters asked both presidential candidates about the ruling.

>> mr. president, did arizona go too far? did arizona go too far? >> yeah, they did k and that'll be straightened out. as you know, it's all about states' rights. that'll be straightened out. and and i'm sure that the governor and everybody else, they're going to brick it back to -- >> what do you say to the people of arizona right now who are witnessing a law go in place that dates back to the civil war? >> elect me. i'm in the 20th century, 21st century, not back then. they weren't even a state. howard: 21st century. caroline, trump critics are saying, look, see, this is what you get when you leave it up to the state. a court can step in and revive this 1864 law where you can get up to 5 years in prison if you're a provide iser. >> i mean, look, trump recognized that these states can hold referendums, they can undo some of these restrictions. he even said florida's could be on the chopping block, although i'm not so sure because that's a

pretty heavily red majority. this is the problem with the gop messaging on abortion, it's not an effective counterattack. what trump said in his statement is the extremism of the democrats is astounding and it's not marketed enough, the fact that they could support abortion up until the moment of birth. it verges on infanticide. howard: well, that is a bit of a republican talking point. nobody is killing babies that have -- >> but there's extremism on the other side too, howie -- howard: that's why i brought with it up. >> and it is a gop messaging problem that it doesn't get brought up. howard: trump said, look, arizona, this goes too far. it'll be fixed in a come of weeks, he said, but it's the republican lawmakers in arizona who quickly adjourned any vote so it couldn't be fixed right away, and the republican speaker of the house there says he won't allow a vote. >> howie, you just put your finger on it. it's are republicans. republicans, although tear punishing women and medical providers with this decision and, i mean, hearkening a law

from the 1800s, like you said, women couldn't vote, i mean, where do we go next? if they're giving democrats a gift in the state of arizona. and each though somebody might say give it to the states, what happens in the states, howie, if you fight and fight and fight in court and you fight and fight and fight? it goes to the supreme court who decides who's on the supreme court, the president of the united states. howard: caroline, this is from the time before lincoln freed the slaves, a few thousand people lived in this arizona territory. half a century away from statehood. even carry lake, who once embraced -- kari lake now says it can't, i don't support it, it can't take effect. >> as i said, the coverage of this is basically trying to drown out the entire pro-life side entirely. but if you look at a how the public feels, the morning consult poll in 2023 found that 67% of americans believe in at least a 15-week limit. finish so, i mean, this idea that americans are so insanely pro-choice, it's just not true.

granted, you know, this is taking up all the air time -- howard: are you saying the press is jumping on arizona as a way of winning the broader argument? >> of course. of course, yes. i mean, this is -- [laughter] this gets a lot of drama, you know? this is a lot of drama for the press to capitalize on. but the reality is that 15 weeks is very popular among the gop, and that still allows 95% of abortions. howe ow leslie, i i just have half a minute, but the guy who who this was married five times, had relationships with girls as young as 12 so not exactly a moral beacon. >> yeah. [laughter] you know, the hypocrisy, i mean, come on. it's not just laughable, it's predictable, isn't it, at this point? howard: well, but it's the state's highest court, and the state's highest court in florida, as caroline said, also the 6-week ban there which trump also opposes is going to go into effect next month. so this battle is obviously not over, but this conversation is. caroline downey, leslie mar sal,

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howard: now that iran's first direct attack on israel has caused little damage, 99% of those drones and missiles shot down outside israeli territory with help from the if u.s., the political finger-pointing has a begun. here's donald trump last night. enter that's because we -- that's because we show great weakness. this would not happen. the weakness that we've shown is unbelievable, and it would not have happened if we were in office. howard: joining us now in new york, griff jenkins, the fox news anchor and correspondent, and here with me, kevin corke, fox if's senior national correspondent. griff, you've got in a lot of war zones. what trump is saying is a hypothetical, what would have happened if he was still in the white house, but he's certainly not going to credit joe biden with great success. >> well, and, you know, last

night i was on "the big weekend show," and we took those comments live. i was expecting the president to talk about the u.s. response because one thing that is undeniable, and we can get into the wavering in recent weeks of the biden administration supporting aid to israel, last night you saw the u.s. fully engaging with war planes and our aircraft carriers shooting down the missiles and drones that iran sent in what was an unprecedented moment in the middle east. iran has never struck israel or attempted to directly with missiles and drones. howard: yeah. >> and last night you cannot deny that the u.s. was there 100% defending israel. howard: well, kevin, in an early, less partisan time, both candidates might have said we stand with israel and praised the u.s. response, but didn't joe biden do what he promised to do? yes, he's been at odds with bibi netanyahu, but u.s. forces took down dozens of iranian missiles. >> they did the right thing. and i think politically this is

a victory for the administration in this sense, or howie: you have got to be consistent. we've talked about the longevity of the relationship. we've talked about the importance of the relationship. when they waver especially as it relates to other israeli incursings -- incursions and policy decisions, it makes them look weaker, and i don't think it helps them as much as they think it might with a relatively small group of voters in various states. howard: griff, iran obviously was behind hamas' unspeakably brutal attack on october 7th, behind hezbollah's rocket attacks on israel always using other proxies. what's the anything safe cannes of a direct attack? because now it's war with israel, shadow war with i guess you could call it, now out in the open. >> that's a great question, and that's what this is all about, what happens next? what will israel's response be? because we're on this path of what appears to be an unstoppable escalation in the region even though the administration and everyone's saying let's have cooler heads and maybe israel will temper their response.

but you go back to october 7th and and then you saw, of course, the proxies in syria, in lebanon attacking, and then you get the israeli response taking out the general in damascus at that iranian consulate. and, of course, iran felt they had to save face, they had to respond. but now it's gone to this next level -- howard: yeah. >> -- and it's almost as some have described it an escalation ladder, and it's anybody's guess to see what the next step will be. howard: yeah, that's such a crucial question. kevin, it seems iran doesn't want a sustained war with israel because otherwise it wouldn't have is constructed an attack that it knew would cause limited damage, and it had been telegraphed in advance. but israel's so trained to retaliate that they may decide we can't let this go unanswered and then you have endless cycles. >> here's the hope, and you heard griff refer to this, this escalation ladder. the administration would like to encourage bibi netanyahu to let

this be more or less it -- howard: that's what the president told bibi. >> absolutely right. if it doesn't turn out this way, the real issue for the administration moving forward is how much influence do you really have. you can talk about your relationships, but if you have no influence, you kind of wonder, well, where is this relationship based at least on where we are in 2024 versus, say, where we thought we were in 2020. howard: a quick one for both of you, half minute each, does the vivid image of people spending all night in bomb shelters make the house's delay as partisan warfare so to speak in providing military aid look like it's just out of step with modern war fare? griff first. >> on the political front it is fully engaged. and you're seeing the politics already playing out this morning with speaker johnson saying they're going to start first thing tomorrow, this week to put aid back on the house floor. but on the democrat side, you're seeing the lead editorial in "the new york times" says military aid to israel must --

cannot be unconditional. well, democrat senator john fetterman has been hammering that all day saying no conditions whatsoever. so you're going to see this play out politically this week early and fast, and i think it's going to be a bigger problem for the democrat party. howard: yeah. well, how can the united states do nothing at this point? we've seen israel under this kind of attack? >> i think you have to be consistent. support, support, support. and if you don't support, be clear about whey you don't -- why you don't and make that your mission. howard: on that note, we'll keep an eye on what's happening. television's endless exploitation of murder if trials. how it all began with o.j. simpson. hub.at t ♪ muck because you know the right way to save. stop! save with drivewise and get a rate based on you. you're in good hands with allstate. i was scared when i was told age related macular degeneration could jeopardize my vision.

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with email, sms and social posts all in one place. so you still have time to make someone's day. start today at constantcontact.com. howard: it was a circus of a televise ised trial. o.j. simpson charged with murdering his ex-wife, nicole brown simpson, and her friend, ron goldman. simpson, who just died at 76, with us at the center of a racially-charged case that began with a low-speed chase of his white bronco. >> we are, looking at live pictures of interstate 5 in los angeles. we believe that that white vehicle which is being trailed by a phalanx of california highway patrol cars and helicopters belongs to al cowlings who disappeared with o.j. simpson. howard: and trial stunts that everyone endlessly debated. >> if it doesn't fit, you must acquit. howard: there's o.j. trying on the glove, the infamous glove.

defense lawyer johnnie cochran, prosecutor marsha marcia clark, judge lance ito became famous, even fringe characters like house guest kato kaelin are despite if substantial the evidence that the one-time football player had stabbed nicole and ron, the jury acquitted simpson, and this was a racial uproar. >> not guilty of the crime of murder -- [cheers and applause] in violation of -- [inaudible] section 187a -- >> the jury has spoken. obviously, you're very happy. >> i'm very happy for his family, for his children. i think justice was served. [inaudible conversations] howard: the first interview went to bet's ed gordon. >> i think the media is the main reason why america is feeling the way they're feeling. they were lied to. howard: all the media's fault. kevin corke, how did you feel at the time that o.j. was acquitted by black jurors through what's called jury nullification? he's one of us, he beat the system. we're going to cheer.

most whites were angry because a double murderer had been turned loose. >> i don't think this was really about o.j. at the time. it was really about the lapd. people forget that. the whole rodney king -- howard: officers were acquitted, yeah. >> literally, o.j. might have been able to do almost anything and found not guilty because of the feeling in l.a. at the time. howard: griff, o.j. was later hit with a $33 million civil verdict brought by the victims' families. this trial was such a ridiculous clown show that i thought it was embarrassing for the media, but they didn't care because of the ratings crack. >> right. and it begs the question would this trial, o.j.'s trial, be any different if it were held today, for example. but to kevin's great point, i mean, this trial certainly laid bare this national divide over race in policing on the heels of rodney king. but i was talking with our former colleague, greta van susteren, about this. she was at the center of all that. she said you have to remember,

howie, the jury was often taken out every day at various points in the trial, so they saw a very different trial than the one that the media and the rest of the nation watched on full display, and they were challenged not with whether or not o.j. simpson was guilty of this brutal murder, but whether there was any reasonable doubt that he committed it. and that's why when you see things like the glove not fitting and other elements of the case, maybe that's how they got there. one thing is for sure, that is that this trial has set in play many of the future trials that have lean ared on celebrities in the legal system. howard: but you don't have celebrities of o.j.'s caliber: and, by the way, he said he was going to go find the real killer? that never worked out. but today we have coverage of local murder trials involving people, kevin, that we have never heard of who are turned into national melodramas because, and sometimes after

these sagas over missing white women, because everybody in the tv business knows that this will deliver big ratings. >> think about what this really did, howie. it created networks, stars, journalism stars, elevated folks who would never have been a household name into just that. the bigger difference though is and i think griff's point is well taken, if you look at a it through today's prism of media, imagine if how unbelievable that would be. we're talking this would be, like, tom brady or somebody like that, some hollywood star being accused of some heinous crime. it would be that kind of thing. and i don't think, i could be wrong, i don't think we'll ever see anything like it again. howard: tom brokaw's nbc nightly news i wrote at the time, it surged in the ratings because it did two o.j. stories that that night in the lead no matter what had or hadn't happened, and tom didn't like that. o.j. even put ott this absurd book, if i did it, which was an

obvious confession without saying he'd really done it. harpercollins ended up canceling the book, and the rights were turned over to ron goldman's family, and they marketed it, were able to make some money toward that civil judgment. >> well, and i think you saw on the announcement of o.j.'s death mr. goldman said, so what? he's dead. 0789j. very clearly, in writing that book, was almost rubbing it in the victims' families' faces. and clearly that was something that many had hoped he would be on a path to rehabilitation. and, remember, he ended up doing time in jail not for this case, but because he was conducting his own sting operation trying in vegas to get some, you know, rell ecs back -- relics back. he clearly was a troubled individual and did very little to rehabilitate himself. but, you know, your point about brokaw is very significant. i think all of us old enough to remember that car chase that that put awe all of this in motion, i was in a sports bar in

downtown d.c. it was a friday night when it happened. all of a sudden a there was a white bronco being chased on every it's. howard: yeah, i know. >> and people in the bar we were in in downtown d.c. were shouting go, o.j., go. and that,s of course, told me where we were headed. howard: griff anticipates my next question which was o.j. did end up serving nine years because of stealing back his sports memorabilia ya. and in an al capone tax evasion sense, kevin, a lot of people felt justice had finally been done. >> yeah. sometimes if you can't get 'em one way, you get 'em the other way. show me the man, i'll show you the crime. in this particular case i think they finally felt like they got some justice. but remember this, howie, there's a long arc of history. we will look back at what happened not just from the jury's perspective, but from what happened to the woman and the man who were killed, and we will probably all say good riddance. howard: yeah. you know, o.j. died of cancer at

76, ron goldman and nicole brown didn't get to live to 76, and hair families have had to hiv with that the for so long. -- live with that for so long. thank you both for bringing us back. still to come, the npr editor who says his network the has gone so far left, it's off the rails. you know, when i take the bike out like this, all my stresses just melt away. i hear that. this bad boy can fix anything. yep, tough day at work, nice cruise will sort you right out. when i'm riding, i'm not even thinking about my painful cavity. well, you shouldn't ignore that. and every time i get stressed about having to pay my bills, i just hop on the bike, man. oh, come on, man, you got to pay your bills. you don't have to worry about anything when you're protected by america's number-one motorcycle insurer. well, you definitely do. those things aren't related, so... ah, yee! oh, that is a vibrating pain. ♪ i have type 2 diabetes, but i manage it well ♪ ♪ jardiance! ♪ ♪ it's a little pill with a big story to tell ♪ ♪ i take once-daily jardiance ♪ ♪ at each day's start! ♪

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ow howe an award-winning senior business editor at n np if r is taking on his own network. he tells free press founder barry wise that while npr has always leaned left, in recent years it's gone off the rails, and he traces it to donald trump's election in 2016. >> we were shocked, disturbed, distraught, really troubled. after a while we started

covering trump in a way that like a lot of legacy news organizations, that we were trying to damage his presidency, to find anything we could to harm him. howard: during bob mueller's invest of alleged russian collusion, finishes pr had democratic congressman adam schiff on 25 times. >> we really latched on to adam schiff. he was, like, our muse to the trump collusion story. we had him on constant,ly. howard: npr had no interest in the hunter biden laptop story. i remember when the managing editor said we don't want to waste our time on stories that are not really stories, and we don't want to waste our listeners' and readers' time on stories that are just december tractions. joining us now, fox news analyst juan williams. putting yourself aside for a second, do you think npr in recent years has moved from just being left left-leaning to one that engages in anti-trumpism? >> i think there's no question trump has contributed to a polarized media a hand scape in

america. so i think when uri berliner says you see lots of people on the left side of the liberal media looking to damage trump, that that's quite right, that that's intentional. i think they see themselves in a media landscape where there's strong voices on the right especially on radio, howie, where the talk show hosts who with dominate are right-wing talk show hosts, i think npr's planted a flag on the left and said we are, you know, given the audience and given how the audience has shifted, the number, percentage of our conservatives who previously listened to npr has gone down in the trump era. howard: right. >> i think you see this more clearly now. ow howe right. but npr doesn't see it it that way. the ceo said it's disrespectful, hurtful and demeaning to question our journalists. going back to you, your contract was terminated back in 2010. i remember the controversy. some comments you made on fox. you said if you see someone with muslim garb get on a plane, you get nervous, but you also

said -- >> this was after 9/11. howard: right. but you also said all muslims shouldn't be blamed for what extremists do, so why did this lead to your getting the axe? >> this is interesting in the context of uri berliner's speech because this was before trump. howard: right. >> i think what we've seen time and again at npr is an insulated cadre of people, liberals, i think, for the most part who think they are right-thinking, they're well educated people, they think they're good people, and it can lead, i think, to a sort of arrogance. so someone like me, i think you've known me a long time. i'm no blaming conservative, but i am too conservative a black guy for their taste. they would say, well, why is he willing to hear this out, to talk to a justice thomas, to deal with black -- they don't -- howard: yeah. >> for them it was, like, that doesn't fit with advocacy groups who say we need to do more in terms of black american experience. you know, obviously, i've written, i think, best selling

books about the black experience. howard: right. >> but it didn't fit with their understanding. howard: by the way, npr admitted botching this and also the executive who dumped you had to leave and also the ceo didn't get a bonus. so there has been friction. and i guess maybe you weren't with as comfortable there. meanwhile, berliner's also saying that now you have to enter in a database anything about age, race, ethnicity. the people who you interviewed and, you know, they keep track. >> i think this has gone to an extreme but, again, you know, there's just an interesting angle here which is it's not keys at fpr -- conservatives battling against liberals. howard: berliner voted against trump twice. lee not a right-winger. >> right. what you have is liberals against more people trying to prove they're more liberal. that's the very conversation in that very niche media environment. and i think this is highly regrettable because from the kind of journalistic experience

i've had, you want people challenging ideas, people pushing you so that you're doing your best at not only getting the facts, or but presenting a balanced picture to the audience. howard: you know, "the new york times" waited the two days and then a did a sort of npr in turmoil piece but didn't get into any of the specifics. nothing in "the washington post," nothing at a politico, nothing on air at cnn or msnbc. if this had been a senior fox person speaking out, i think it would have been covered nine, seconds later. >> oh, i don't think there's any question. [laughter] in this environment now, media companies have to sort of identify one way or another -- howard: yeah. >> and, you know, so fox or npr, npr, i think they're saying we don't believe the big with lie. other people do and we're here to -- and they think that they are or right and they are going to show you how right they are. but it leads them into a point of blindness on some occasions. howard: yeah. donald trump now calling for the

defunding of npr, but i think the stations are popular in the local communities, so that's a hard thing to do. wouldn't, thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. five major networks, including fox news, along with ap, pbs and others are urging donald trump and joe biden to debate each other this fall. in a letter out today, there's simply no institute for the candidates debating each other before the american people. trump had already said yes, biden hasn't committed. and that leaves me some time to say good-bye. i'm howard kurtz. thanks for joining us, and i'll see you next sunday. ♪

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