know who can deliver a live television report while driving and merging. the good news is, you are moving, right? there is not complete gridlock on friday. >> absolutely. we took the advice, we got out early and so hopefully, there is a state trooper. i hope i didn't do any untoward there while talking to you. there you go. >> sandra: getting pulled over while doing a live report while driving. always great. >> his lights are on. the lights just went on. not me fortunately. the other camera. his lights just came on. i don't think it's for me. that's good news. >> sandra: jeff, always great stuff. thank you very much, sir. everyone enjoy your labor day safely. >> what would you do day one? >> day one it will be implementing my plan for an opportunity economy. there is the work we'll do that's about investing in the

american family around affordable housing, a big issue in our country right now. >> sandra: that was the interview last night. vice president kamala harris walking the tight rope in the formal sit-down interview since jumping into the presidential race a month ago looking to turn the page on president biden but also defending their record in the white house. welcome to a new hour of "america's newsroom," and what a great morning this is to be with you, bret. i'm sandra smith in for dana perino this morning. >> bret: i'm bret baier in for bill hemmer. harris spoke in big picture terms really but was more vague on the concrete details. former president donald trump calling her shift to more moderate positions nothing more than a stunt. >> we know who kamala harris is. is greatest flip-flopper of all time. she is copying every policy of trump. let's make her maga. does anybody want to make kamala maga? i don't think so.

we'll send her a red hat. >> bret: today president trump will talk to voters in must-win pennsylvania before harris and biden hit the state next week. bryan llenas is live in pennsylvania right now. >> good morning. former president trump and his campaign are seizing on one line from last night's interview with vice president kamala harris. when she said quote, my values have not changed. in her explanation as to why she is now moderated a few of her liberal policy positions over the last few years, particularly for instance on her outright support of the green new deal. this morning former president trump posting on truth social a new ad that highlights this sort of flip-flopping. it starts with her saying quote her values have not changed followed by a montage of harris saying her more liberal policy positions over the years as she was running for president in 2019 like saying she would ban off shore drilling, ban

fracking, abolish ice. positions she says have now changed. before last night's full interview aired, a preview clip was released. here is former president trump responding to that clip at a town hall in wisconsin last night moderated by former democratic congresswoman tulsi gabbard who is now endorsing him. >> it was taped. we're doing it live. why are we doing it live and she is doing it taped? [applause] she was sitting behind this massive desk and she didn't look like a leader to me, i'll be honest. i don't see her negotiating with president xi of china. i don't see her with north korea like we did. >> trump making a surprise policy announcement yesterday in michigan promising free ivf treatments for women if elected. he said the government will pay for it all or mandate that insurance companies pay for it.

the average cost of ivf per family can exceed $40,000. >> we -- the government is going to pay for it or we'll mandate your insurance company to pay for it, which is going to be great. we are going to do that. you know what? we want to produce babies in this country, right? we want to produce babies. >> this new ivf policy comes as the latest fox news polling from the four battleground sun belt states show harris's strongest issue is abortion and reproductive healthcare. plus 19. she has an 11-point lead over trump when it comes to women in the battleground states of georgia, arizona, nevada and north carolina. trump on the other hand has a similar lead, exact same lead with men. back here in johnstown, pennsylvania, you can see the line behind me forming since this morning. this arena here in johnstown fits 4,000 plus. he will be speaking here at

4:30 p.m. cambria county, bret. he one this county by 37 points in 2020. after he speaks here he heads to washington, d.c. to speak to mothers at an education summit emphasizing the importance of the suburban women vote. bret. >> bret: it is 10:04 in the morning. that is quite a line for 4:30. bryan llenas in pennsylvania. thanks. >> sandra: let's bring in byron york from "the washington examiner" and fox news contributor. on the front page of the associated press right now in response to that interview is the headline the interview, kamala harris inaugural sit-down was most notable for seeming: . ordinary. the first sentence reads after avoiding an interview for the first month her first one thursday was notable mostly in how routine it seemed. perhaps that was their goal.

what was your thought? >> well, my sense was that she got through it. there weren't any giant gaffes or anything like that. but i tried to look at it in terms of the issues that american voters say are most important to them, that is inflation and immigration and abortion. on inflation, she offered 0 explanation of what happened during the biden-harris presidency. all she did was say she was proud that they brought inflation down under 3% when, in fact, that's higher than it was when they started and she offered few solutions except some sort of action on gouging and to give americans money with which to pay higher prices. she called them tax credits but to give americans a higher tax credit for children, give them a $25,000 tax credit to pay the higher price of buying a house. she didn't offer much on that. as far as the border is concerned, she defended her

actions on the border and went back to her main line which is republicans defeated donald trump -- donald trump defeated a bill that would have solved the problems on the border and finally on abortion that's the one thing she has been totally consistent on. she favors unrestricted abortion any time, any place. that didn't even come up in the interview. >> bret: first of all the republicans, many of them, have very specific concerns about that bill that bipartisan bill and we should list those sometimes when we talk about it. but what was most striking, i've said this before, was the want to embrace what she saw as the very positive sides of the bidenomics but also continuing to say that america needs to turn the page. here is a piece of that. >> one of your campaign themes is we're not going back. but i wonder what you say to voters who do want to go back when it comes to the economy specifically because their

groceries were less expensive, housing was more affordable when donald trump was president. >> you are right. prices and in particular for groceries are still too high. the american people know it and i know it. my agenda includes what to do to bring down the price of groceries. >> you have been vice president for 3 1/2 years, the steps you are talking about now, why haven't you done them already? >> first of all, we had to recover as an economy and we have done that. >> bret: threading that line, walking that line is really going to be part of the challenge of this campaign. >> any vice president faces who runs for presidency on his or her own faces the problem of the record that they have with the president. this is an unusual situation in which she is running for the presidency when the president himself has been forced out of the race. i think what you saw in that interview last night was a mixture of defending her record and then acting as if she and

joe biden had never even been in the white house. she referred at one point to the era we've been in. the trump era for almost ten years now and wanted to bring an end to that. you had to think wait a minute. who has been the president and vice president for the last 3 1/2 years? she is walking a fine line. she is walking on both sides of it. >> sandra: day one the focus will be the economy is a reminder she is currently the sitting vice president and very much at the helm of those decisions being made right now. finally, in this a.p. right-up it struck me when it said what bash didn't act and the nominee didn't volunteer is why it took so long to submit to an interview and whether she will do more again as a candidate? we are left wondering that, byron. >> absolutely. as i watched this, i kind of thought well maybe she is going to say we've checked that box, everybody seemed to want an

interview, okay, i gave them an interview. no reason to do anything more before the debate, which is a week from tuesday on september 10th. then after that it is after labor day, prime of the campaign. sorry, we just don't have time. i just don't think we'll see very many of these. that interview was mildly challenging but not really challenging in the way that a reporter can try to drill in on questions. you didn't see that last night. >> bret: we also didn't focus here on this show or earlier on governor walz's answers about how he describes his military service, all kinds of things. there is more to dig into. byron, thank you. >> sandra: thank you so much. >> thank you. >> bret: lawyers for former president donald trump arguing for a second time yesterday that his new york criminal case should be heard in a federal court instead of state court. they argued the case violates his constitutional rights citing the recent supreme court ruling on presidential immunity. filing could impact a sentencing

date for his conviction on 34 counts of falsifying business records. trump's sentencing is currently scheduled for september 18th. however, judge merchan is set to rule on the potential delay in coming days. >> sandra: new developments meanwhile in the election interference case against former president trump. attorneys for special counsel jack smith and trump are expected to file a status report by and of day that could pave the way for a trial date. david spunt is on this live out of our d.c. newsroom with more on that for us. david. >> we read through plenty of court filings that might be considered in the weeds. today's filing should be interesting. we expect some sort of roadmap in the united states case against the former president. remember, this was supposed to go to trial in march of this year but delayed because of the supreme court ruling on immunity. the attorneys will submit that status report to the judge by the end of the day today and

show how both sides will want to move forward. will smith try to take this to trial before november 5th? it's possible. that window is almost closed. the supreme court, majority of the court ruled in trump's favor making it more difficult for special counsel to bring in certain aspects of his original case. justices ruled that presidents have broad immunity for official duties. the charges remain the same. conspiracy to defraud and conspiracy against rights. earlier this week trump received a superseding indictment, indicted again on the same charges. it focuses more on trump in his unofficial role of his candidates. tweets and speeches to sporters as a candidate. it is always up to the judge who will make a decision about any trial date and how this moves forward. she will hear from both sides on thursday, less than a week in person and we should have some

sort of roadmap for how this thing will go forward. >> sandra: you will keep us posted. david, thank you. >> thank you. >> this is a real example of how cities across our country that are extremely far away from our border are dealing with the impacts of a failed border policy. >> bret: local officials in colorado speaking out after reports of a venezuelan gang taking over an apartment complex outside denver. >> sandra: you may want to check your refrigerator. a major deli brand is linked to nine deaths. the company facing accusations of contamination. >> bret: plus this. >> there is no question i'm in favor of banning fracking. we can grow and increase a thriving clean energy economy without banning fracking. >> bret: vice president harris reversing her past position on fracking. saying her position has been

clear. the evidence, though, may show otherwise. >> bottom line is she did not actually make clear at a 2020 debate she had changed her previous support for a tracking ban. >> why you should do more interviews. >> when you say you support the green new deal and also support fracking those ideals are not consistent. eir dogs. good, real food is simple. it looks like food, it smells like food, it's what dogs are supposed to be eating. ♪

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>> right now there is an active investigation to a massive shoot-out that out of one of these apartment complexes. one man ended up dead. that's not misinformation. these are real problems. >> bret: local officials in colorado raising the alarm on venezuelan gang fears after this video showing armed men taking

over an apartment complex. americans are feeling the serious impact of the crisis at the southern border especially when it comes to safety. let's bring in chris, a retired border patrol chief. thank you for being here. i want to bring up the colorado incident and the disconnect what we heard there and what we're hearing from the governor and his spokesperson put out a statement saying we know violent crime in aurora went down between 2022 to 2023. fully expect data will show further declines for 2024 and the misinformation campaign threatens criminal investigations and hurt the climate for small businesses in aurora. what about that answer from the governor's office? >> well, first of all, thank you for continued to talk about this topic. i want to address two things right there. that video is infuriating, disgusting and shouldn't be happening in the united states especially people that don't

have the right to be here. as far as the governor's statement that's the biggest misinformation campaign. they aren't reporting the crime stats in major cities like they used to. the fact that denver and state of colorado is a sanctuary city this is a pull factor creating this kind of environment for this chaos. people should not live in fear in their own homes and apartment complexes and neighborhoods especially from people who don't have a lawful right to be here. >> bret: the aurora mayor about what his job is and what the federal job is. >> we have had these massive waves of migrants crossing the border. arrested, asked for political asylum. were not adequately vetted and then released into the country. the city of aurora did everything we could to keep them out of this city. it is not our problem. this is a federal problem. >> bret: that's their point,

this is a federal issue. >> he is exactly right. this is a problem created by this administration's failed policies of letting everybody in. you look at this particular demographic, the venezuelan nationals. they are part of the parole problem bringing in 30,000 people a month that should have been suspended and started up again. you also have over 25% increase in venezuelan nationals caught by border patrol compared to last year. this is a continuous problem. this particular gang tda is coming through places like el paso and there is a known connection between the non-government organizations in el paso as well as the state of colorado. they are going into places like that. we're talking about this venezuelan gang. ms-13 has not been eliminated all a direct result of this humanitarian outlook on all of this when it is about public safety and national security. we need to shut the border down

and secure the border so we can eliminate these problems or mitigate them so people don't have to deal with this federal issue. >> bret: you mentioned the movement from some of those countries is continuing and started back up. vice president harris in that first interview was asked about her role in going after root causes and what she has done in this administration as vice president. listen. >> first of all, the root causes work that i did as vice president that i was asked to do by the president has actually resulted in a number of benefits including historic investments by american businesses in that region. the number of immigrants coming from that region has actually reduced since we began that work. >> bret: is that true? >> we've seen a little bit of decline from central america where she focused her emphasis on but remind people 177

different countries that have come in illegally through this administration. again she is talking about future and day one things. there are things she can stop right now and she is not doing it. it is really interesting because she is talking about the future and we really need to make sure that people get on board and you have a lot of republicans out there that are talking we are going to put country over party. if they don't get behind a president like president trump and move forward with securing the border, this will infiltrate across america at higher levels. if you don't put the safety of american people, american citizens first, you will have communism over country, chaos over country and crime over country. it is playing out. not just colorado but around the country. she has failed because of the policies she has allowed to be implemented that is not keeping america safe. >> bret: chris clem. we appreciate your time.

sandra. >> sandra: mold, flies, leaks and worse at the plant at the listeria outbreak. nine have died as a result of it. nate foye has horrific details we're learning. >> according to the cdc nine people are now dead with 57 others hospitalized in connection to the outbreak. this is the largest listeria outbreak since 2011. take a look. some of the nearly 70 bore's head deli meat impacted. they had recalled 7.2 million pounds of deli meat after samples of unopened products tested positive for the bacteria that causes listeria. so far 18 states have seen cases. up to nine people died lived in south carolina, illinois, virginia, new mexico, florida, tennessee, new jersey, and new york. the company said in a statement

we deeply regret the impact this recall has had on affected families. no words can fully express our sympathies and sincere and deep hurt we feel for those who have suffered losses or endured illness. the plant where the outbreak came from in virginia is shut down right now while the company disinfects it. according to usda documents obtained by cbs news food safety inspectors flagged issues at the plant 69 times in the past year. some of the problems include deli meat being left on equipment. mold or mildew build-up. pooling water and issues in insects. class action lawsuit is filed against the company by some consumers including a pregnant woman who claimed that she nearly lost her unborn child because of the illness. doctors say listeria symptoms can be severe. >> people that develop symptoms most commonly will develop a stomach illness and can have

nausea, vomiting, diarrhea. >> they can take up to ten weeks to present themselves after eating the contaminated food. >> sandra: wow, nate, thank you. >> not everybody who votes for donald trump will agree with every policy issues but we agree that american energy prices should be lower, we agree make our own stuff in america and close down the border and stop the flow of illegal drugs and trafficking into our country. it is just the basic common sense stuff. >> bret: j.d. vance there on "fox & friends." 2024 candidates hit critical battleground states. where each of these candidates stands on issues. high costs putting a tenth in american's paychecks. how a rust belt state resident

is fearing. kelly is talking to them at the michigan state fair. >> people have a lot more on their minds than just fried oreos and food on a stick. i'll tell you what they told me about the economy after the break. ♪ safelite came right to us, and we could see exactly when they'd arrive with a replacement we could trust. >> vo: schedule free mobile service at safelite.com. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

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and puts tax-free cash in your pocket. why don't you call and find out what a reverse mortgage can mean for you? call finance of america and get your free, info kit. call this number >> bret: thousands of expected to visit the michigan state fair this weekend. many worried about their wallets. we're talking to them in michigan. good morning, kelly. >> well, the fair doesn't open for about 30 minutes and why it is a little quiet behind me. i spoke to people yesterday about their decision to come out of the fair. $4two per ticket. more a question of how much can we spend this year rather than what are we doing this weekend? if you have a family of three,

four, five or more it will add up with the ticket price that gives you access to all the rides but it does not include one of the biggest draws to the fair, which is food. families tell me that they have been planning and trying to figure out how much they'll let their kids spend on things like elephant ears and pretzels. vendors told me the prices have all gone up since last year thanks to the price of diesel which runs all their trucks and helps fuel the rides here. the cost of ingredients, cups and other paper goods are all up as well. >> things have hurt us because we have had to raise prices. and that unfortunately has to pass onto to consumer. >> i think it is looking up. i'm busier than ever. the future is price. >> food prices are 20 to 30% up. housing prices are unable. >> we have a smaller budget this year but didn't want to miss the

fair. >> credit card debt is up 5%. the cost of shelter is up and food is up a little over 1% at home and 4% eating out. bret, michigan has the oldest state fair in the country and people here who have worked the fair tell me they're very proud of that fact . i'll send it back to you. >> bret: stay away from the fried oreos, thank you. >> no question i'm in favor of banning fracking. i'm committed to passing a green new deal creating clean jobs and putting an end to fracking once and for all. >> sandra: harris is now vowing the exact opposite in her first interview since topping the democrat ticket. >> fracking is a pretty big issue in the must-win state of pennsylvania. do you still want to ban

fracking? >> no. >> what made you change that position at the time? >> well let's be clear. my values have not changed. i believe it is very important that we take seriously what we must do to guard against what is a clear crisis in terms of the climate. >> sandra: a national reporter. we've heard that a few times now. there was no answer provided by kamala harris as to why her position changed. she did decide to focus on her values. it is incredibly important, is it not, that voters know why her stance has changed so much? >> well, i believe so. i believe that a clear -- the clarity was very, very important in that answer because well over 100,000 people in this state are directly employed in the industry. but also an additional seven are, you know, have an indirect impact as well as farmers.

so it is not just a blue collar industry but also chemists and geologists and engineers. there is a coalition of different people that work in this industry and they did not get any clarity in what she said there. what i think she could have done if she really wanted to put sort of the period at the end of that sentence was to say i am so committed to not banning fracking that i will lift my own administration's pause on the export of lngs, liquid natural gas. that is something in place right now and that the president put in place and something that both governor shapiro and bob casey pushed back against the administration for doing. i think if she did indeed believe or does indeed believe that fracking is okay right now, that would have been a gateway into opening a dialogue with

those voters. >> sandra: we know how important it is to the state of pennsylvania. it covers much of central p.a. if you look at a map it tells you the importance of it. we know the economic impact it has, fracking, to pennsylvania. the number two natural gas producer in the entire country accounts for 123,000 jobs in pennsylvania alone. added about 41 plus billion dollars to the state's economy. that was provided to us by the department of environmental protection among other state resources. we know it's important. is her stance working or this clear flip i should say when you look at the way the quinnipiac polling in pennsylvania. choice for president in voting now harris is leading trump by three points there. >> yeah, you know, i think this is a much tighter race. i spend a lot of time on the ground. i was in erie two days ago.

can't remember what day it was, two days ago following senator vance as he is trying to win over voters there. and erie is arguably not just the most important county in pennsylvania, it is the most important county in the entire united states. if you win, eri you will win the election. this is where the shale industry is having their very big event coming up at the end of september to bring all kinds of people in to talk about the benefits it has had in the state. i think if this is something that she is truly supporting, she should be there talking to those people that are in the industry. i think that would go a long way. i suspect based on her answer that she still holds her same values is that fracking is not part of her values and that was sort of a wishy-washy way to

avoid directly answering and giving clarity to voters. >> sandra: the problem with such a clear flip voters are wondering would she flip if she wins the white house back again. >> absolutely. >> sandra: we'll watch what happens there and voters' reaction to it. good to have you on. >> bret: well, it was a stunner at the u.s. open. did you see this? a shocking upset in the second round losing in straight sets to a tennis player from the netherlands. his opponent was 74th in the world and he is the third. the netherlands very happy. this is brett reads sports. 74. that's a big upset, holy cow. that's what the u.s. open is all about. >> sandra: i woke up my

9-year-old son and struggled to tell him who beat all c -- alcarez. i cannot wait to get a coach's reaction to that. >> bret: it's big time upset. i will get his name right by the end of the day. >> sandra: the world will know his name soon because we'll see more of him shortly. new reports that the inability to reach a hostage deal could mean imminent danger for israel. where the make or break discussions are heading just ahead. >> let me be very clear. i'm unwavering in my commitment to israel's defense and its ability to defend itself. that's not going to change.

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>> october 7, 1200, people massacred. many young people simply attending a music festival. women were horribly raped. as i said then and i say today, israel had a right -- has a right to defend itself. we would and how it does so matters. far too many innocent

palestinians have been killed. i remain committed. since i've been on october 8th to what we must do to work toward a two-state solution. >> bret: vice president's commitment to israel's right to defend as we learn secretary of state antony blinken promised israel the u.s. would support a preemptive struck on hezbollah. robert greenway, director of the center for national defense at the heritage foundation joins me now. your thoughts on vice president harris's comments really the first in this interview format about israel and the status of the israeli-hamas war. >> good morning, bret. thank you for having me. i think ultimately it's policy choices got us to the place we're at now contributed to what happened on october 7th and the escalation since. i respect there has been rhetoric wanting to avoid conflict. actions speak louder than that

that brought us to the precipice. we're isolating israel and making their choices nor complicating and -- we've not yet responded to them. so there has been a lot of miscalculation. ununtil i think we restore the pressure on iran as responsible for all of it, we aren't likely to see a diversion. we may not want conflict but we are heading closer to it. >> bret: "the new york times" on secretary blinken's promise to back israel in preemptive strike on hezbollah. amid signs israel was preparing to struck iran's ally hezbollah mr. blinken flew to tel aviv. washington will support a preemptive strike, israeli strike against hezbollah. equipment or forces poised to launch any im tent attack according to a u.s. official spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive diplomacy. this is different in that most

of the messages out of washington and the administration had been to hold back. >> that's right but i think this is more of a recognition that israel will exercise its unilateral right. also been the only effective path of de-escalation. what deterred hezbollah in lebanon was a preemptive strike that prevented 6,000 missiles going into areas of israel resulting in 300 ineffective strikes striking only a chicken farm. preemptive strike has a value. israel is likely to do it again. united states is acquiescing to that. we've been attacked 220 times since october 7th responding only ten times. 130 plus casualties, three fatalities. we have had seven in three strikes in the last three weeks and we have not responded to any of those yet. so i think the united states should restore its deterrent by opening up the option of unilaterally preemptive an iran

strike of u.s. forces in the region as well. i don't know if the statement will deter the iranians. i think it is unlikely to. >> bret: you mentioned iran. the biden administration, biden-harris administration's policy toward iran, how it has or has not enforced sanctions, you think that has greatly contributed to some of the power of hamas and hezbollah in the region. >> there is no question. as you allow access to resources in tehran over $1 hundred billion in lacks enforcement of sanctions and direct cash infusions since 2021 flows downstream to surrogates and proxies and fuels not only their actions and activities but also the threat against israel and the u.s. forces and interests and makes all the difference in the world. unless it's restriction escalation probability continues to climb. >> bret: robert, thank you. sandra. >> sandra: it is the great escape. folks taking to the skies and

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>> sandra: seems like it is always the case. another record will be broken this summer travel weekend. labor day weekend is expected to be jam-packed on the roads and in the skies and our travel expert is here, lee, with some tips for holiday getaway. certainly a lot of folks are packing up the cars and heading to the airport. what can you tell us? >> every holiday weekend in the last couple years seems to be a new record, right? if you watch this right now and taking to the roads and you haven't left yet consider getting out there because the traffic is just going to get worse later today and if you're coming back on monday leave in the morning or later at night or wait until tuesday to come back to try to minimize the hassles and traffic you have to deal with. >> bret: i have noticed lately airports are stricter on the bags that you take on the plane. like you have to be by their rules, right? other you will be packing stuff

on the side. >> yeah. if you travel in other countries especially in europe and in asia, they are super strict with things like that. finally the american tsa is catching on because people have been taking advantage of that for years with bag sizes bringing on three bags instead of one. i'm actually kind of all for that because then it creates more room up above in the overhead compartments. people should plan accordingly and i always say to minimize potential lost baggage, try not to check a bag if you can and maybe pack less because you never use everything that you pack especially if you are going away for a weekend. you shouldn't have to check a bag and fit everything in a carry-on. >> bret: you need to talk to my wife. >> sandra: maybe record people hitting the roads and skies but it is spread out over a longer

period of time. i notice the traffic isn't always friday afternoon anymore. i feel like there is a lot more flexibility with people's work schedule since covid. am i right? are you sensing the same? >> yeah. i think that's why the records have happened is because people are so much more flexible than they have been in the past. it has created the ability for people to leave on thursday or wednesday and take a couple of days and work from somewhere else. that has actually helped especially on the roads. and even in the skies. but still the majority of people won't want to pay for an extra night of a hotel so they will still leave on friday and come back on monday. so it just depends. if you are where i am here in los angeles and you are going to go to las vegas for the weekend or something like that, it's a 3 1/2 to 4 hour drive with no traffic. if you leave at the wrong time it could take seven or eight hours and plan accordingly and hope there are no accidents. >> bret: as you go to the airport and run into the weather

and you have a cancellation. do it online or get in a line for the people there at the airport? >> it's like you are teeing this up for me. if you wait in line you've already lost. you have to do everything on the app because it just minimizes hassles. you don't deal with angie workers and people in line. so much easier to do it on the airline app. whatever your airline is, hotel, whatever, always use the app. >> sandra: thanks, lee. it was a mess last weekend and i was early. great to be with you too. i'll see you at 1:00 and see you at 6:00. that's the delay why we're talking over each other. thanks, brett. >> bret: julie banderas is in for harris. >> julie: listen to this