are you happy with? what was included? are you happy with.7 what was included? what are you happy with? what was included? what was missing , and included? what was missing, and do you feel better off tonight also? let me ask you this. do you think this mini—budget did anything to make the conservative booths seem a little bit more like , you know, little bit more like, you know, conservatives that think that they are supposed to be or . not they are supposed to be or. not yes, we've got all of that

coming up. but before we do so, let's cross live to polly middlehurst for tonight's latest headunes. headlines. >> michelle, thank you and good evening to you. well yes, a raft of tax cuts and benefits increases is aimed at making 27 million people in the uk better off was announced today by the chancellor in the biggest change outlined in his autumn statement . jeremy hunt said national insurance will be cut from 12 to 10% at also the triple lock on pensions will be kept taking the state pension up by 8.5% to more than £220 a week. taxes on alcohol will be frozen until august the 1st next year, meaning no increase in duty on beer , cider wines or spirits. beer, cider wines or spirits. and the chancellor also said the changes is bound to affect everyone. >> instead , i'm going to go >> instead, i'm going to go further and cut the main rate of employee national insurance by

two percentage points from i2% to 10. >> yeah. yeah >> yeah. yeah >> that change will help . 27 >> that change will help. 27 million people. it means someone on the average salary of £35,000 will save over £450 for the average nurse . it's a saving of average nurse. it's a saving of £520 for the typical police officer, a saving of £630 every single year. but in response to that, the shadow chancellor, rachel reeves, said growth in the uk had hit a dead end. >> going into this statement, the government had already put in place tax increases worth the equivalent of a £0.10 increase in national insurance . so in national insurance. so today's to p cut will not remotely compensate for the tax increases already put in place by this conservative government . by this conservative government. the fact is that taxes will be higher at the next election than they were at the last. this is

they were at the last. this is the legacy of the conservatives and the liberal democrat leader ed davey says tax payers will in fact be worse off. >> well, the conservatives have been pushing up business taxes by record amounts up until today . so i would have thought this is just another deception by the conservative ifs. they've said that they're cutting taxes for bafic that they're cutting taxes for basic rate taxpayers next year. actually, those tax payers are going to see a rise of £400 a year because of the huge rises in income tax under the conservatives. >> when these away from the autumn statement for men were given life sentences today with minimum terms to serve of between 41 and 47 years for the murder of a woman in liverpool. 28 year old ashley dale was killed when james witham forced his way into her home and opened fire with a machine gun . he and fire with a machine gun. he and co—defendants joseph pearce, nigel barry and shaun zeiss were found guilty of murder and conspiracy to murder. mr l's

partner, family liaison officer, dc hayley cantillon spoke outside court on behalf of the family . family. >> although nothing can make this nightmare end , we can now this nightmare end, we can now rest assured , knowing these evil rest assured, knowing these evil monsters will pay for what they have done to ashley and our family . and they too have ruined family. and they too have ruined their own lives and their family's lives . ashley had her family's lives. ashley had her whole life ahead of her and was in her prime, a career driven young woman whose life had been cut short for such a senseless act. there really are no words . act. there really are no words. meanwhile the hometown of four teenage boys who died in north wales has cancelled tonight's switching on of the christmas lights. >> out of respect for the families involved. jevon hirst harvey owen will fitchett and hugo morris had set off on a camping trip to the snowdonia region and their bodies had been recovered yesterday after a car was found overturned and

partially submerged in water. nonh partially submerged in water. north wales police say it appears to have been a tragic accident . members of the accident. members of the community spoke of their sadness. >> the community of shrewsbury is very shaken and shocked by what has happened. i don't live here, but i work here and the atmosphere is palpable. we within the first hour of opening the abbey and we opened a little early this morning. we have seen 40 or 50 students and other members of the public come in. i knew harvey through secondary school and skating with him . school and skating with him. >> i think we were very close in secondary school, skating out on the weekends , doing fun things. the weekends, doing fun things. same with dev wilf recently started coming to the gym . i started coming to the gym. i kind of almost tried to take him under my wing and try and show him everything and he was just such a lovely lad. >> residents of the town of

shrewsbury expressing their mourning earlier on today. now international news and israel and hamas have agreed to a four day pause in fighting starting at 8:00 tomorrow morning. 50 hostages will be freed by the terror group in exchange for 150 palestinian is held in israeli prisons and here in the uk, foreign secretary david cameron said the truce is a crucial step towards providing humanity. korean relief in gaza . lastly korean relief in gaza. lastly the prime minister and his wife have welcomed south korea's president and first lady to number 10 downing street today. yoon suk yeol and rishi sunak have both signed a new long term agreement covering defence and technical cooperation. the deal covers improved military cooperation between the uk and south korea. focussed on countering smuggling in the east china sea . this is gb news china sea. this is gb news across the uk on tv, in your car on digital radio and on your smart speaker. by saying play gb

news this is britain's news channel. >> thanks for that polly. our michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight. alongside me, the head of public policy at the institute of economic affairs, matthew lesh, and the former labour adviser scarlett mccgwire maguire. welcome to both of you. tonight we're going to be getting stuck into the autumn special. i want all of your thoughts on that, the autumn statement, or should i say the autumn special? that sounds like autumn special? that sounds like a but a dish chinese restaurant, but you i mean. i want you know what i mean. i want your thoughts. do you feel ficher your thoughts. do you feel richer tonight or not? vaiews@gbnews.com you vaiews@gbnews.com is how you can hold or tweet me can get hold of me or tweet me at gb news. now, there is of course, this is the main story in town tonight. of course, the autumn statement. i shall start by just reminding you how jeremy hunt introduced it today . hunt introduced it today. >> our choice is not big government high spending and high tax because we know that leads to less growth, not more

war. instead, we reduce debt, cut taxes and reward work . cut taxes and reward work. >> well, who better to open my show with than a man loved by many of you guys at home? i know because i see all the emails our very own economics editor liam halligan. good evening. and what a treat having you in the studio with me tonight. can you start by explaining to the viewers didn't have anything better to do? >> do you do? » no you do? >> do you what it's like? >> do you know what it's like? >> do you know what it's like? >> my feelings won't be >> oh, my feelings won't be here. you didn't here. my feelings. you didn't hear was saying to me hear what he was saying to me earlier in programme. he earlier on in the programme. he was telling me how was basically telling me how excited can't contain. he's excited he can't contain. he's excited. just excited. i think he's just nervous. i think that's what it is. >> i've never been on tv before. >> i've never been on tv before. >> it's all right. we'll look after you. nice andrew robson after you. a nice andrew robson curve, start with some curve, right? start with some bafic curve, right? start with some basic explainers. so if people have whatever have been out doing whatever today, switch the today, right, just switch the telly on. what have missed? telly on. what have they missed? >> so it's interesting because a month both chancellor >> so it's interesting because a month hunt)oth chancellor >> so it's interesting because a month hunt)oth primeellor >> so it's interesting because a month hunt)oth prime minister jeremy hunt and prime minister rishi tax cuts rishi sunak were saying tax cuts are there'd be are impossible. there'd be irresponsible sunak are impossible. there'd be irresporhisle sunak are impossible. there'd be irresporhis home sunak are impossible. there'd be irresporhis home secretary.ik are impossible. there'd be irresporhis home secretary. the sacked his home secretary. the right his party went

right of his party went ballistic. and keir starmer was 25 points in the opinion 25 points ahead in the opinion polls. tories had to do polls. the tories had to do something they up something and they came up with tax really tax cuts. but did they really cut the headlines cut taxes? now the headlines will you that they did cut will tell you that they did cut taxes. there was a very significant cut in what we call national insurance from 12 to 10. that will be worth about £450 a year if you earn , you're £450 a year if you earn, you're lucky enough to earn £35,000 a yeah lucky enough to earn £35,000 a year. so that was a big tax cut that's coming in from january. there was another big tax cut for business called full expensing. that means businesses can offset the costs of their investments partially against their corporation tax bill that was meant to last for three years. that's now going to be permanent. not that anything is really in politics, really permanent in politics, but two major tax cuts there . but two major tax cuts there. but but, but jobs. but two major tax cuts there. but but, but jobs . you and i but but, but jobs. you and i have talked in the newsroom a lot. i've talked on gb news a lot. i've talked on gb news a lot about fiscal drag, the freezing of these tax thresholds where tax starts at £12,570, where tax starts at £12,570, where the basic rate ends and the high rate kicks in at 37.5

grand, where the additional rate, 45% kicks in at 125 grand. they've been frozen and they've been frozen all the way until 2028. so as inflation goes up, as earnings go up, more and more people are dragged into tax. they have to pay tax or they have to pay tax at a higher rate. the office for budget responsibility says that by 2028, get this, there'll be 4 million more british workers or workers in britain paying income tax who weren't previously enough, earning enough to pay income tax. and there'll be 3 million people dragged into million more people dragged into the higher tax bracket . you the higher tax bracket. you know, middle ranking teachers, nurses , police officers, nurses, police officers, not wealthy people . so what wealthy people. so what basically happens today is you had two very high profile tax cuts, but they were totally offset and more by this ongoing process of fiscal drag. more and more tax being laid on people. so overall, this was actually a tax raising autumn statement. and you're not going to read that on the front of many newspapers tomorrow morning, but it's true.

>> and do you think that's because he's keeping these thresholds up his sleeve for the next budget? almost next budget? so almost pre—election, think he's pre—election, do you think he's kind know, holding kind of, you know, holding it out to be as out because he wants to be as popular as possible before go popular as possible before we go to the polls? popular as possible before we go to tbecause? to build >> because he wants to build a war chest so he do bigger war chest so he can do bigger tax cuts before the next election. do you think that's possibly right? but just think possibly right? but i just think fundamentally, a sort of fundamentally, as a sort of neutral observer, it's just dishonest. if you're going to raise headline raise taxes, raise the headline rate of tax so everyone can see what's going then, you what's going on, and then, you know, and i have known know, scarlett and i have known each many years. we each other for many years. we can a good old chinwag can have a good old chinwag about it and can agree to about it and we can agree to disagree or agree agree. disagree or even agree to agree. but raise taxes in this but when you raise taxes in this stealthy basically stealthy way, basically saying to public, too thick to the public, you're too thick to the public, you're too thick to what's really to understand what's really happening, think do a happening, then i think you do a disservice your government. disservice to your government. and big headline for and that's the big headline for me today. look, there are many other that went he other things that went on. he uprated basic state pension uprated the basic state pension he did by 8.7% inflation he did by 8.7% and inflation busting increase in maintaining the triple lock. he uprated all benefits by six point working age benefits by 6.7. again higher rate than many people

thought would happen. he gave restaurants and pubs another year's holiday from business rates, which is absolutely fantastic. that's a tax that businesses pay, as you know, dubs before you've made any money at all before you've even taken any revenue. so lots of things he did that showed he's listening think will boost listening and i think will boost growth. and was an autumn growth. and this was an autumn statement for growth. so liz truss, on speed really , but what truss, on speed really, but what he did do also though, is he kept those tax thresholds frozen where a lot of us wanted him to ease them off and de—ice them and thaw them out and that means that overall, again , it's that overall, again, it's totally contrary to his rhetoric , which is all about tax cuts. this was actually a tax raising autumn statement. >> and what do you think the response will be? you know, many of my viewers will get in touch and tell me their perspective from an individual perspective, but of but from the perspective of business. okay. >> the perspective >> from the perspective of business, there many business, there will be many businesses that he businesses who are happy that he has is made full expensing permanent, but they will tend to be bigger businesses because the

smaller businesses, as we say, they have the balance they don't have the balance sheet of those sheet to take advantage of those tax breaks what that mean? tax breaks. what does that mean? they raise the money or they can't raise the money or they the money to do they haven't got the money to do they haven't got the money to do the . that's that the investment. that's that allows to get the tax allows them to get the tax breaks. i've had a rake of emails in the last couple of hours from small business owners who going to do who are saying i was going to do a investment. but because a big investment. but because the raised the government's now raised the minimum £1 an hour minimum wage by over £1 an hour by 10, | minimum wage by over £1 an hour by 10, i now haven't got the money this year to do that investment was going to investment that i was going to do. like raising the do. politicians like raising the minimum can minimum wage because they can take but businesses take the credit, but businesses pay take the credit, but businesses pay increase in the pay for that increase in the minimum now saying minimum wage. now i'm not saying people shouldn't a minimum people shouldn't get a minimum wage. i am saying that wage. what i am saying is that these on business these extra burdens on business offset and more than offset the tax breaks that businesses have got . so if he wants this to be got. so if he wants this to be a growth producing budget, if he wants this to be a budget to get the moving, finally, the economy moving, finally, after for covid and then the cost of living crisis, i think he's going to have to go further in of the measures that he in terms of the measures that he puts and he's going to puts forward. and he's going to have honest and open

have to be more honest and open about these measures because there's and there's a lot of smoke and mirrors here. and i suspect it that coming people that in the coming days, people will saying more about why will start saying more about why was a tax raising budget was this a tax raising budget when told us it when the chancellor told us it was tax cutting budget? was a tax cutting budget? >> my view is he's >> yeah. one of my view is he's quite brutal. adrian he says michelle, they are trying to buy the election. simple as that. he says skyler, quick, we're says ouchie skyler, quick, we're going into this going to get into this throughout program, but throughout the program, but so just a quick top line thought from you on budget today. just a quick top line thought frorwell, on budget today. just a quick top line thought frorwell, i n budget today. just a quick top line thought frorwell, i completelyet today. just a quick top line thought frorwell, i completely agree ay. just a quick top line thought frorwell, i completely agree with >> well, i completely agree with liam. i mean, it was supposed to be a budget to win the election. actually, that's what budgets are about. that's what autumn statements and the statements are about. and the point is, is do you feel better off? and the answer is no. and i think the real key thing is that for million workers are going to find themselves paying tax for the first time when they're when they earn, they earn very , very they earn, they earn very, very little. and that's where he should have concentrated. i mean, if he really wants to make a difference to people, you concentrate on the low paid. >> yeah, it's hard to disagree with with liam's analysis for a

government that's claiming that the era of big government is oven the era of big government is over, that taxes are going down for every £1 that they're giving us in a national insurance cut, they're increasing taxes on income through freezing thresholds by £4. so it's really giving with one hand, but taking even more with the other. and that's very much the story of this but i think it goes this budget. but i think it goes back to deeper question back to this deeper question about is the about spending, which is the government inability government has this inability to get spending control. that get spending under control. that means taxes as means they can't cut taxes as much they might like to much as they might like to because they're not willing to make any kind of difficult decision difficult choice on decision or difficult choice on that front. i'm just going to say it like it is. >> don't mean to be funny, but >> i don't mean to be funny, but it's like you. yeah, these people, these these people are not right? hunt is not thick, right? jeremy hunt is not thick, right? jeremy hunt is not thick. rishi sunak not not thick. rishi sunak is not thick. everything that people thick. so everything that people are saying thick. so everything that people are just saying thick. so everything that people are just in saying thick. so everything that people are just in this saying thick. so everything that people are just in this studio, saying thick. so everything that people are just in this studio, but ng thick. so everything that people are just in this studio, but way not just in this studio, but way beyond where they're saying we wanted to wanted the thresholds to increase wanted increase or we wanted and i don't know the personal allowance this stuff allowance to increase this stuff is rocket science, right? so is not rocket science, right? so why do you think it is that they haven't done it? >> they think they can

>> because they think they can get away with it. freezing tax thresholds. there's a whole concept in economics invented by the way, by an economist called vito tanzi, who i used to work with. it's called fiscal drag. theidea with. it's called fiscal drag. the idea that when you freeze thresholds, you get dragged into these higher tax brackets and most people understand it, but a lot of people don't understand it or they're too busy to get their head around . their head around. >> but most people know by now they might not know all these clever economic terms that you came up with them, they know came up with them, but they know the and bolts of it, the the nuts and bolts of it, the brass tacks of it. they know that they are now paying more tax than they used to. they know that on that they're getting taxed on some when some of their pensions when perhaps so they're some of their pensions when peripeople so they're some of their pensions when peripeople are so they're some of their pensions when peripeople are not. so they're not people are not. >> let me let me put it like let me let me put it like this. does the amount of extra income tax he's from fiscal drag, he's getting from fiscal drag, from freezing threshold, from freezing the threshold, from freezing the threshold, from actually 2022, from 2023, actually 2022, because this because rishi sunak started this when then when he was chancellor and then hunt it on in the hunt carried it on in 2023. the amount of extra tax he's getting between 2022 and is the between 2022 and 2028 is the equivalent it to a6p

equivalent wait for it to a6p increase in the basic rate of income tax. now you imagine if the tories put income tax up by £0.06 right? i'm not saying there'd be riots in the streets, but it would completely upend politics, right? the tories would be accused of being the sdp or the to the left of the labour party. you know, scarlett would be going to the tory party conference standing standing as a candidate in surrey. conference standing standing as a candidate in surrey . and this a candidate in surrey. and this is the thing, though , when you is the thing, though, when you boil the frog slowly with fiscal drag, the frog doesn't notice and the frog dies quietly. i'm still not quite. when you put an electrode on the frog, the frog jumps up into the air and says, ah, you've electrocuted me. but i'm not convinced. i'm still not convinced. >> this £0.06 by stealth you >> all this £0.06 by stealth you can the different can have all the different pennies stealth, pennies by stealth, but ultimately don't vote ultimately if people don't vote you at next election you back in at the next election because they've been paying more tax, all your extras tax tax, then all your extras tax here and there and your stealth isn't all irrelevant. isn't that it's all irrelevant. i'm convinced yet as i'm still not convinced yet as to why they are doing it, because not daft. okay. because they are not daft. okay. if tories put tax up by

if the tories put tax up by £0.06 take it from me. >> we would speaking about >> we would be speaking about little british politics. little else in british politics. always. well the that always. yeah well the that fiscal drag exists , right? you fiscal drag exists, right? you know fiscal drag has been a thing for a year and a half. right. and i only really get to talk about it on gb news on days like the autumn statement and the of the time the budget the rest of the time it's news. that's the point. it's not news. that's the point. if boil the frog slowly if you boil the frog slowly with fiscal frog will die fiscal drag, the frog will die quietly. if you electrocute the frog with a massive £0.06 increase in the basic rate of income tax, then you've got frogs around relevantly. frogs jumping around relevantly. >> the of which we >> well, the frogs of which we speak. you guys home? speak. are you guys at home? what's you nurses what's going on? do you nurses at squeeze in your back at the squeeze in your back pocket is today a day for rejoicing? do you feel happy? i don't maybe you've raised don't know. maybe you've raised a glass or two tonight because of the fuel, the fuel duty, the booze, duty being paused as well. what do you make to it all? what are you celebrating, if anything, at all? let's try and bring some positivity in from you guys at home. what was missing? did hope to missing? what did you hope to see wasn't ? i'll bring you see that wasn't? i'll bring you into the conversation in a

couple of minutes. don't go anywhere .

sometimes earlier on gb news radio . hi there, dewbs& co radio. hi there, dewbs& co with me. >> michelle dewberry. tell 7:00 the head of public policy at institute of economic affairs, matthew lesh, and the former labour adviser scarlett mccgwire alongside me tonight we're looking at the autumn statement. what does it mean for you guys at home and how do you feel about it? richard i don't think you got my memo. richard before the break, i said if anyone sees anything positive in this statement hit me statement today, tell me. hit me with get some with it. let's get some positivity. said, i give positivity. richard said, i give the autumn statement zero out of ten. you see what i mean? you didn't get my memo, he says. nothing was good about it at all. unless you're on benefits, work hard and get breadcrumbs that was the overwhelming takeaway that richard had. there you go . and he says the measures you go. and he says the measures in the autumn statement were as

dull as the messenger. but i'm intrigued about liz truss and the other mps who promised to vote down any budget which increased taxes, which clearly this does. what happens next? lewis said. well, he's frozen beer and spirits ice. but he says when staff start getting the increase in the national living wage or whatever it's called these days, the minimum wage, the price of beer will go up to pay for rise in those up to pay for the rise in those wages. so lewis is having none of this is all a big con, of that. this is all a big con, says leigh. just to win the election, i urge people not to be stupid, he says, because just in a couple of months it will all be back to the same. if the tories get re—elected again, nobody , it would appear, seems nobody, it would appear, seems to have got my positivity memo . to have got my positivity memo. so where's the pensioners among you guys? at home. you guys had a good day. you got a nice increase in your pensions, didn't you? and if you guys happy tonight, should i just take a second to remind us all just in terms of tax receipts into this country , what we take

into this country, what we take and where, and then i'll throw over to the panel for some debate on it. right. so just to remind ourselves, the public sector, current receipts, 2022 to 2023, £1,017 billion, 249 billion comes from income tax , billion comes from income tax, 178 billion from national insurance , 160 billion from vat, insurance, 160 billion from vat, 83 from corp tax . and around and 83 from corp tax. and around and around we go. tobacco and alcohol duties 2020, 22 billion. of course, tobacco. the rolling up stuff that's going up, alcohol , all that's up stuff that's going up, alcohol, all that's going to up stuff that's going up, alcohol , all that's going to get alcohol, all that's going to get frozen . matthew, your thoughts frozen. matthew, your thoughts then , because a lot of what was then, because a lot of what was going on today was a lot of focussed around the tories trying to make out that they are the party that will make work pay, the party that will make work pay, that want you to be working, that want to be working, that want you to be striving and will make worth striving and will make it worth your if you do was your while. if you do so. was that it then reflected in their policies ? did you think? policies? did you think? >> well , to a limited extent. >> well, to a limited extent. let's put it that way. so we've seen these kind of broad changes in terms of cutting national

insurance. that means opposed insurance. that means as opposed to what would have otherwise to what it would have otherwise been, are slightly better been, things are slightly better off. already off. but as we've already discussed, if you're a worker who's up to pay who's been pulled up to pay income the first time or income tax for the first time or you're pushed you're being pushed into a higher tax bracket, the 7 million people between those two categories who are not going to be work. now, on be encouraged to work. now, on the hand, parts of the other hand, parts of the budget we've seen about budget we've seen sections about putting credit by putting up universal credit by 6.5. that doesn't 6.5. i mean, that doesn't exactly scream making work pay, but it does at least lead to some generosity. if you if you do start working at the bottom end. now where the government perhaps has the most claim here is comes to the way the is when it comes to the way the welfare system works and trying to deal with the fact that there are millions of more post are millions of more people post covid workforce who covid out of the workforce who haven't back to work haven't come, come back to work and trying to ensure a tougher sanctions regime, better checks for people's health, ensuring that if you can work from home, then you should just work from home. i think lot of those home. so i think a lot of those kind of reforms in terms of pushing people back into work are and necessary. but are important and necessary. but but don't overall all

but i don't think overall all working age people are better but i don't think overall all w0|as|g age people are better but i don't think overall all w0|as a age people are better but i don't think overall all w0|as a resulteople are better but i don't think overall all w0|as a result of)le are better but i don't think overall all w0|as a result of this re better but i don't think overall all w0|as a result of this budget, off as a result of this budget, particularly if compare it particularly if you compare it to pensioners been to pensioners who've been getting off getting a lot better off as a result of big increases in the state pension. >> am determined to find >> yes, i am determined to find some there some pensioners out there tonight whether or not tonight and see whether or not you guys are happy with what you had. when comes to working had. when it comes to working age and whole kind age people and this whole kind of thing people of striving thing to make people better off in work. do you think that that was trickled that that again was trickled through policies as well? through to the policies as well? >> i mean, the point is , is >> i mean, the point is, is that, matthew just said, i that, as matthew just said, i mean, a pay increase, mean, if you get a pay increase, it can put from from it can either put you from from not paying tax into paying tax. that's 4 million people or another 3 million who if they get over 50,000, will now be doing it. so actually, it's quite tough working. can i say that? i do not think that that universal benefit , universal universal benefit, universal credit is an easy way out. i mean , it's living on universal mean, it's living on universal benefits is really, really tough. and most people who are on it , if they have

tough. and most people who are on it, if they have a tough. and most people who are on it , if they have a chance, on it, if they have a chance, would like to get off it. and one of the great problems i mean, you talked, matthew, about post covid is that the spectator a fairly right wing magazine, looked into this and found out that now we've got 2.8 million people on sick . right. and a lot people on sick. right. and a lot of that is actually because of national health waiting lists andifs national health waiting lists and it's due to go up to 3.4 million. so actually, what do we do ? i mean, what we should have do? i mean, what we should have been doing in this budget is trying to do something about lowering those waiting lists. if you are waiting for a hip replacement, you are waiting for a hip replacement , for a knee replacement, for a knee replacement, for a knee replacement for something that isn't urgent but painful , well isn't urgent but painful, well then actually you just get worse and worse. i mean, that's the problem is, is that you stop being able to work and then, you know, your hip replacement , if know, your hip replacement, if you eat too much, you can't walk . you can't walk it off. you can't take exercise. i mean, a doctor told a friend of mine that if she didn't go private, she'd end up with diabetes.

>> you just teed up a nice clip that i had from jeremy hunt today, and he was explaining the difference between labour and tory. and this really caught my ears. listen i think compassion is about giving money. >> we think it's about giving opportunity. yeah yeah . opportunity. yeah yeah. >> and there were a few aspects like this in jeremy hunt's statement today, which really in my mind anyway, sought to kind of put distance between labour and the tories. of put distance between labour and the tories . and his point and the tories. and his point there is , look, you know, when there is, look, you know, when you think someone needs help, you've been labour when you think someone needs help and you know, compassion and care and all the rest of it, the answer from labour is just money, money, money, money, money. no whereas nato is trying to redefine. >> don't tell me what i think. thatis >> don't tell me what i think. that is not what i'm not tell you. >> that's what jeremy hunt says. >> that's what jeremy hunt says. >> jeremy, hunts. >> well, jeremy, jeremy hunts. i mean, what want is for more mean, what we want is for more and more be working, and more people to be working, working good for you, right? working is good for you, right? not just mean not just it doesn't just mean you earn money. actually. it means that you have it means that you have dignity. it means that you have dignity. it means you have self esteem.

means that you have self esteem. all sort of thing. now, for all that sort of thing. now, for instance, the disability charities very happy charities are very, very happy that more and more people can start working from home. but what they say is help us. don't don't punish us. help us to do it. help us. you know , if you're it. help us. you know, if you're visually impaired , i mean, then visually impaired, i mean, then you actually need special stuff to be able to work. if you can't walk, you need special things. what we want is we want them to say, yes, this is an opportunity. it's great. it's an opportunity. it's great. it's an opportunity . but actually, you opportunity. but actually, you know, you you talk to small businesses who hire people with disabilities . my brother is one. disabilities. my brother is one. and he says that's it's great. but actually we need help and they need help. and it's not just good enough to say we're going to punish you if you don't work. >> so do you think, to paraphrase what scarlett is saying, scarlett's basically saying, scarlett's basically saying it needs to be more carrot and less stick to get people back into the world of work if they need to work in a different form. do you agree with the tories got this wrong? >> well, i think both

>> well, i think it's both carrot and stick. the whole issue the welfare system issue with the welfare system or a net that people end a safety net is that people end up entangled it. and up getting entangled in it. and the whole purpose to some extent of universal credit to of universal credit was to ensure work pays. ensure that work always pays. so and around taper and the change around the taper rates a bit in the previous government statements make government statements to make sure incentives sure that there are incentives to there does seem to go to work. there does seem to go to work. there does seem to this issue of a lot of to be this issue of a lot of people, as you've said, going off sick and nhs failing to off sick and the nhs failing to care for people. and i think that requires a much deeper conversation about the conversation actually about the nhs fairly the nhs and it's fairly so the government spending government is spending record amounts are amounts on the nhs. there are more there are more more doctors, there are more nurses, are increasing nurses, there are increasing number hospitals and number of beds and hospitals and huge money being put number of beds and hospitals and hugethe money being put number of beds and hospitals and hugethe system. money being put number of beds and hospitals and hugethe system. but ney being put number of beds and hospitals and hugethe system. but we'reaing put number of beds and hospitals and hugethe system. but we're not put into the system. but we're not getting outcomes from, from getting the outcomes from, from our investment. so i our health care investment. so i think that's the debate we need to have on that things. to have on that side of things. and make though, another and i make though, another point, which think is point, which is which i think is important back on the important to push back on the chancellor government chancellor from the government today, rhetoric today, which is this rhetoric around the minimum wage as part of get people to work. and of their get people to work. and i nice. well, i just always so nice. well, let's up minimum wage. let's put up the minimum wage. people paid more. but people will get paid more. but the risk today with this

the big risk today with this massive 10% increase now, it's much up, much faster than much going up, much faster than inflation. going up to £11.44 >> so just going up to £11.44 and that will now apply 21 and that will now apply to 21 year above. and that will now apply to 21 yeaand above. and that will now apply to 21 yeaand as above. and that will now apply to 21 yeaand as you've ve. and that will now apply to 21 yeaand as you've said, that that >> and as you've said, that that is a rate that's much higher than the rate of inflation. it's much higher than the rate of average there's average wages going up. there's average wages going up. there's a a risk here that whilst a bit of a risk here that whilst in the past min wage has been kept a relatively low level kept at a relatively low level to sure it doesn't to make sure that it doesn't push of work, a lot push people out of work, a lot of can't afford to of businesses can't afford to pay of businesses can't afford to pay that. so they and there's good research on this that at the margin it leads reduced the margin it leads to reduced hours, lower hours, particularly for lower skilled as skilled younger workers as workers. with workers. maybe with a disability, a bit more disability, there's a bit more costs trying keep them costs around trying to keep them on, up on the on, just showing up on the screen as well. on, just showing up on the screlf] as well. on, just showing up on the scre if you well. on, just showing up on the scre if you can. on, just showing up on the scre if you can see your >> if you can see that your eyesight is better than mine, everybody. but look, it gives you a good gist there in terms of wage living of the minimum wage or living wage or whatever gets called wage or whatever it gets called these and how that has these days. and how that has increased 1999 up . to 2024. increased from 1999 up. to 2024. >> so the risk here, because the government in the past basically designed the minimum wage based on a negotiation to some extent between workers and their union

representatives , between representatives, between employers, between government. it set at an it was it was it was set at an economic that was what the economic level that was what the minimum wage was. we've now got this which this national living wage, which is of kind of an arbitrary is sort of kind of an arbitrary level. it's working towards 60% of income. so there's of median income. so there's a really risk here living really big risk here with living wage does have this wage that does have this disemployment it disemployment impact that it does workers more than does hurt hurt workers more than it helps. >> people should be able to afford live. is what i afford to live. this is what i mean. know, i am a mean. you know, i am a capitalist. i do confess . but, capitalist. i do confess. but, you if you work and you know, if you go to work and you're grafter and you're a you're a grafter and you're a striver , you be able to striver, you should be able to live . so whole kind of live. and so this whole kind of you've got you you used to have this national living wage there and wage and then this minimum wage there. get my head there. i could never get my head around because surely if around that because surely if you work and you earn minimum wage, you should be live well. >> yes. and the reason that they were called two different things was because you couldn't live on the wage. and then the minimum wage. and then george osborne, sleight of hand called wage. the called the minimum wage. the national wage. the national living wage. it is the minimum wage. but actually what matthew doesn't know matthew probably doesn't know because he's a lot younger than

me, when the minimum me, is that when the minimum wage came in, there were big arguments . labour wage came in, there were big arguments. labour brought it in, right? there were big right? and there were big arguments labour party arguments in the labour party about whether it would cost jobs and actually it didn't. about whether it would cost jobs and actually it didn't . and it's and actually it didn't. and it's really, really important that people were genuine , worried people were genuine, worried that it would cost jobs and it didn't. and what it meant was that people for the first time, particularly people like carers, people working in pubs, people doing really hard work , were doing really hard work, were actually paid enough to live . actually paid enough to live. >> so the evidence here in terms of the impact on employment, it wasn't as big as people were concerned about your right, but that's because as blair set the rate a relatively low level rate at a relatively low level so that it affordable. so so that it was affordable. so they didn't big negative they didn't have a big negative impact. is impact. what's happened now is the increasing it the tories are increasing it very much quicker than very quickly, much quicker than labour did. now they'll say labour ever did. now they'll say that's but that's a great thing, but there's risk here. there's that's a great thing, but therea risk here. there's that's a great thing, but therea big sk here. there's that's a great thing, but therea big riskere. there's that's a great thing, but therea big risk here “here's that's a great thing, but therea big risk here that's that's a great thing, but therea big risk here that this such a big risk here that this is it starts to bite where is when it starts to bite where younger workers can't get onto the jobs ladder so they can't build where people build up skills where people with are replaced with low skills are replaced potentially machines,

potentially by machines, maybe that's reasons, that's good for capital reasons, but fewer in but that means fewer people in work. so i think the risk here is now coming out and it's kind of to say, well, everyone of nice to say, well, everyone should a wage that should be paid a wage that allows at a certain allows them to live at a certain quality life. the minimum quality of life. the minimum wage is not the right way to do that. is actually through the that. it is actually through the welfare think it's welfare system. i think it's much allocate money to much better to allocate money to the there's the poorest households. there's people of people across all sorts of different household levels that receive the minimum wage, often second really second earners. so it's really a question how you target question of how do you target this and the minimum wage. this based and the minimum wage. >> you're saying is that >> so what you're saying is that the should subsidise the state should subsidise the people, don't people, the employers that don't pay people, the employers that don't pay it's not or pay properly? well, it's not or what is women what you're saying is that women on low pay well, if their man earns that's earns enough, then that's enough. >> that's that's not what i'm saying. what i'm saying what saying. what i'm saying is what you're by putting you're risking here by putting them in wages, pushing people out altogether, that is out of work altogether, that is the of the unintended consequence of increasing minimum so increasing minimum wage so rapidly. agree here. rapidly. we have to agree here. if put the wage to £100 if you put up the wage to £100 an hour, would people lose an hour, would some people lose their an hour, would some people lose the yes. >> yes. >> em- ea— 5 i'm saying is some >> but what i'm saying is some level there's an impact. is this level. >> okay. but what i'm saying is that an argument the

that this was an argument in the 90s and it didn't work. and michelle's if michelle's absolutely right. if you should enough you work, you should earn enough money on. money to live on. >> the thing that annoys me and i do actually find it quite disrespectful to some of the jobs there. so you look disrespectful to some of the jolwho there. so you look disrespectful to some of the jolwho is here. so you look disrespectful to some of the jolwho is earning you look disrespectful to some of the jolwho is earning the you look disrespectful to some of the jolwho is earning the minimum k at who is earning the minimum wage, it's like you know, carers, it's people that carers, yeah, it's people that do work. example, do caring work. so for example, people nurseries, people at work in nurseries, caring for children. it's caring for your children. it's people care for your people that care for your relatives and i don't understand why we place such a low economic value on the role of caring. i don't understand what am i missing? it's because women do it well. >> i mean , women are women are >> i mean, women are women are paid much less than men. that when the minimum wage came in, the difference it made was, was i mean, obviously there are men on the women wage and there are quite a lot of men. but but the vast majority are women. >> yeah. i mean , is it as simple >> yeah. i mean, is it as simple as that? is it really as simple as that? is it really as simple as that? is it really as simple as that? it's that they are the low paid jobs because they're primarily done by women . you primarily done by women. you guys can tell me your thoughts on that at home. don't go

anywhere . we shall be continuing anywhere. we shall be continuing this conversation . i want to this conversation. i want to know how has budget gone know how has this budget gone down politically within both the labour party and the tories and beyond? see you .

risks with their finances. >> earlier on, gb news radio . hi >> earlier on, gb news radio. hi there, michelle dewberry with you till 7:00, the head of pubuc you till 7:00, the head of public policy at the institute of economic affairs, matthew leisch. >> alongside me is the former labour adviser at scarlett mccgwire . and we will out all mccgwire. and we will out all the big guns here on jobs and cars. such a massive day, autumn statement day. we've already had liam halligan in and now look none other than our political editor christopher hope keeps me company in the studio as well. i want to talk to you about the political response to today. but before i do, let me just play my viewers a little clip from rachel reeves and what she had to say about the autumn statement. the 13 years of

conservatives . conservatives. >> is simply not >> the economy is simply not working. and despite all the promises today, working people are still worse off. so how has today gone down? >> you might expect labour to be upset about it and critical of the kind of many chances they've had over the past 13 years. chancellors and chancellors and chances you might argue and the tories are quite upbeat they they see a chance, they see an indication here of the tories we need to cut taxes, bear down the size of the state, find after all this time waiting. one tory mp leaving parliament tonight told me that this was the autumn statement that kwasi kwarteng should have given a year ago rather than that mad statement that we came out with growth growth statement and which ignored almost all of the obr forecasts and the rest and caused the chaos with people's pensions. this is the one they wanted then where it's focusing on workers on growth. and interesting i think this tax cut 2% tax cut off all of our

national insurance contributions in january . that is me in january. that is me signalling a may election for the first time. we are now seeing an indicator nation. they might go to the country in may. now most of us thought it would be maybe even be the autumn, maybe even january so. january 2025. but so. >> so my view is that are not as politically astute as perhaps yourself. do say that ? yourself. why do you say that? >> because. why cut taxes on the 6th of january? that's unusual. all what's the rush? if you're going to cut taxes, do it for the next financial year, which starts which is when taxes are paid in the april to april to march each year. if you're going to cut taxes on january the 6th, you're it for a reason. you're doing it for a reason. what's the reason is to make people richer, happier with people feel richer, happier with you something you ahead of something happening. in happening. maybe an election in may. is the two may. the feeling is, is the two pronged a salt on the polls. the tory party you've got this idea of going behind, getting behind workers, behind businesses as many business business many a business business focussed event today and next march income tax will come down. that's the idea. so national insurance than income tax and as

you do that now you're making people feel a bit despite people feel a bit richer despite the they're frozen. the fact that they're frozen. these thresholds. so we all we all dragged into all being dragged more into these brackets. so it's these big tax brackets. so it's kind of bells and whistles. they're trying to make us feel better about the government and more a more positive about a tax cutting government ahead of cutting tory government ahead of a possible may election. >> get that because >> but i don't get that because surely you're rishi sunak, surely if you're rishi sunak, you now you're you know that right now you're on a sticky wicket. things are not so surely you not for good you, so surely you want to kick that election out as that's what we thought. >> tubes that's what i thought that you're the same. i thought the same. that you're the same. i thought the lame. that you're the same. i thought thei thought. would they >> i thought. but why would they think anything else? >> because they to have the >> because they want to have the opfion >> because they want to have the option going that's option of going early. that's the they're the point. they're buying themselves a may themselves the option of a may election, wasn't there before. >> right. >> right. >> they've got options you >> they've got options here. you see, politics, have this see, in politics, you have this chance the opposition. >> go early when you see it. >> go early when you see it. >> we think they're going >> we all think they're going long. say i even long. i'll say i think even january 20th, 25. but they've now that wasn't now got the option that wasn't there early there before of an early election. i think that's interesting. it is interesting. >> talk me as well about >> talk to me as well about devolution, that devolution, because i found that interesting. it's great interesting. yeah, it's great

news it? news for hull, isn't it? >> know hull very well of >> you know hull very well of course, it's a devo deal for hull. these got new hull. these they've got this new ideas meryl meryl ideas of these meryl meryl combined authorities as 13 and east yorkshire. >> in my neck the >> it was in my neck of the woods. yes. this is hull and east yorkshire. east riding of yorkshire. >> and there's >> correct. and there's £13 million go this area for million will go to this area for a new authority to spend heavily on housing, job creation and pubuc on housing, job creation and public bus franchises on housing, job creation and pub|the bus franchises on housing, job creation and pub|the like. bus franchises on housing, job creation and pub|the like. [that's nchises on housing, job creation and pub|the like. [that's goodas and the like. and that's good news. done well with news. and they've done well with the teesside mayor. they like they've been she's done very well it's labour, it well there. and it's labour, it has go to consultation has to go to consultation which i interesting i found interesting because i would assumed should would have assumed it should have referendum. would have assumed it should have that's referendum. would have assumed it should have that's aferendum. would have assumed it should have that's a conversation for >> but that's a conversation for a different we're sick of those jobs. on something as jobs. well on something as important that although important as that although i remember there remember many years ago there was east, the gniezno was a north east, the gniezno dominic cummings bizarrely, was very prominent and they very prominent in that and they rejected if my rejected the devolution. if my memory big idea, memory john prescott's big idea, wasn't right. yes anyway, wasn't it right. yes so anyway, something struck as something else that struck me as odd was the opening odd today was the opening statement from jeremy hunt , the statement from jeremy hunt, the first policy that he announced. i think i might even have a clip to show you briefly , but i'm to show you briefly, but i'm deeply concerned about the rise

of anti—semitism in our country. >> so i'm announcing up to £7 million over the next three years for organisations like the holocaust, education trust to tackle anti—semitism in schools and universities . and universities. >> so just to give you the context there, the money for anti—semitism or preventing anti—semitism or preventing anti—semitism more accurately, which, you know, absolutely no problem with. that was his first policy that that he announced. what did you make to that? >> it's clearly a personal thing. he wanted to say because that shouldn't really be made by the chancellor in the autumn statement setting out government spending . clearly it matters to spending. clearly it matters to him. and why not? it's a big issue and it really is serious. that easily have gone to that could easily have gone to someone in the housing and local communities department or the home felt personally home office. he felt personally he wanted to announce it, so why not? >> yeah, just it was just the way it was done . that was the he way it was done. that was the he started kind of saying, i want to take a moment to just express, you know, his horror,

etcetera. >> october the 7th, you don't get chance if you're get a chance if you're chancellor talk about chancellor to talk about other things the books . so things aside from the books. so he's using his opportunity to do that. >> so you thought that the >> so you thought that was the moment and he and why not. yeah and took it fascinated by and he took it fascinated by what adrian earlier on what you guys adrian earlier on at the start of my program, one of viewers they are of my viewers he said they are trying buy the election trying to buy the election simple that. yes. simple as that. yes. >> you agree with that? >> do you agree with that? that's question. >> there you go. next question, ben, and it's obvious that ben, and says it's obvious that jeremy hunt thinks the electorate naive electorate are thick and naive to statement to believe that this statement is them. the high is good for them. the high earners big business the earners and big business are the winners statement. winners in this statement. >> high earners are not >> he says high earners are not the big winners because they're getting more heavily the big winners because they're getthese more heavily the big winners because they're getthese different; heavily the big winners because they're getthese different thresholds. all these different thresholds. businesses, businesses helped by the they can the full expensing. they can offset their tax if they offset of their tax if they invest heavily in machinery and kit helps manufacturers, that's quite good idea jobs. so quite a good idea forjobs. so i think think i think i'm not think i think i think i'm not sure i agree with that that that viewer i'm on a mission to find the happy pensioners out there. >> any among you >> are there any among you because convinced that that because i'm convinced that that some you might be quite some of you guys might be quite happy there be

happy today there should be is yeah, that's i yeah, exactly. that's what i mean. asking people for mean. i was asking people for positivity and i'm determined to find guys so i can see that find you guys so i can see that you're starting to write in as well. lots opinion to come on well. lots of opinion to come on this pension pack. did you agree with it or not? was it enough? do you still feel unhappy about the tax thresholds that are still pulling you into this? so we'll have that and more

hello there, michelle dewberry xl7, head of public policy at the institute of economic affairs. matthew leisch alongside me, as is the former labour advisor scarlett maguire. i found them everybody was saying, where's the people that are positive feelings about the autumn statement today , carol, autumn statement today, carol, has been in touch with me and she said, i'm very pleased with today's pension rise . in case today's pension rise. in case you're not familiar, it rose 8.5. she's saying people might be saying we don't need it. but listen, i've worked hard for that money. i've paid into the

pot 18 years of age. pot since i was 18 years of age. i'm going to enjoy my extra money. thank you very much. she says , and cheers to that. why says, and cheers to that. why not? bob says, well, i'm a pensioner and i'm lucky enough to have a small private pension to have a small private pension to top up my pension. to top up my state pension. i would have liked to have had an increase in tax threshold. increase in the tax threshold. personally pleased for personally but i'm pleased for the pensioners who are not as fortunate beggars fortunate as me as beggars can't be as they say they do be choosers, as they say they do indeed, jerry says. as a happily retired pensioner, i'm very happy my 8.5. very nice . no happy with my 8.5. very nice. no complaints. linda says that she's happy with her rise, but feel it would have been better to have cut the vat, which would which would have helped everybody. john says, i can't believe you're struggling to get pensioners that's pensioners replying. that's because we're all busy down the pub. i like your style . what do pub. i like your style. what do you make to it? scarlett well , i you make to it? scarlett well, i mean, what we have to mean, i think what we have to remember we have the remember is that we have the lowest pensions in europe, right? >> is that mm go om % go on. i mean >> is that people go on. i mean particularly young people like my daughter about how how well

off older people are and how it's unfair . off older people are and how it's unfair. but off older people are and how it's unfair . but actually, if it's unfair. but actually, if you are just living, if you don't have a private pension and you're just living on a pension, it's not a lot of money. i mean, it's not a lot of money. i mean, it really, really isn't. and so the people who are feeling the most benefit also have a private pension. and it's a bit of added extra. but, but the netherlands is the second lowest country in europe and they're double us nearly, nearly double us. i mean, we just we do not get near it. so actually our pensioners are not being very well treated . are not being very well treated. >> and just to put some figures around this, apparently 20% of single pensioners and 13% of all pensioners relied solely on the state pension . carroll says. state pension. carroll says. please can you make something clear? because no one seems to be pointing this out. she says there's a two tier old age pension in this country. if you retired after 2016, you get the new state pension and if you retired before , it's less retired before, it's a lot less money. so there's only a small

amount pensioners right now amount of pensioners right now that new pension. that will get this new pension. nobody, says , ever points nobody, she says, ever points this you did and this out. well, you did and i shared it with the nation. matthew your thoughts it? matthew your thoughts on it? >> i'm not that's >> well, i'm not sure that's correct. i i all correct. i think i think all pensioners on the state pension are getting an 8.5% rise. i think it is outrageous. the triple that means triple pension lock. that means that the last decade and that over the last decade and a half so, pensioners are on half or so, pensioners are on average no better than those average no better off than those who working. it means that who are working. it means that the pension has been going up even economy's been even when the economy's been stagnant inflation has been stagnant or inflation has been low incomes been low. low or incomes have been low. and i think there's a fundamental unfairness here for a people. and this this. >> so you think the pensions should be less? should be getting less? >> mean, this whole i >> well, i mean, this whole i mean, not this whole rhetoric around, oh, we paid the pot around, oh, we paid into the pot and we're out and therefore we're getting out what deserve. what we deserve. >> mean, is entirely >> i mean, that is entirely untrue. just have be untrue. we just have to be absolutely clear here. why is it there are loads of people are saying that is because saying that there is because there pot, there is no there is no pot, there is no money saved, but money you money saved, but the money you paid when you were working paid in or when you were working has long ago. and has been spent long ago. and it's are it's workers today who are paying it's workers today who are paying your pensions and

paying in for your pensions and you're going to get out of the system a lot more than you put in if you're a pensioner today. so more, so significantly more, especially because these pensions now, pensions keep on going up. now, i completely agree. >> you're a pensioner, it >> when you're a pensioner, it will the workers today of will be the workers of today of that are paying that day that are paying your pension. >> there's any workers >> well, if there's any workers left then, as have an left by then, as we have an ageing population and declining number working and we number of people working and we have expect these have to expect some of these benefits i benefits to decrease. now, i think is some there is think there is some there is some truth here, which is to say if the economy is growing, we can't to be generous to can't afford to be generous to pensioners. be pensioners. i think we should be as to pensioners as we as generous to pensioners as we can, as we possibly be can, as we can possibly be within reasonable limits. within within reasonable limits. i a bit a risk i think there's a bit of a risk here of a sense of here though, of a sense of entitlement when money isn't entitlement when the money isn't there for those there sitting there for those pensions magically to get out of them. and i think there's a longer problem here, which longer term problem here, which is targeting is that's not they're targeting paid they've paid paid their stamp, they've paid their grafted. their duty, they've grafted. >> their fault that the >> it's not their fault that the system is structured such system is structured in such a way that there's not this big tasty pot sitting and waiting for not their fault for them. it's not their fault that structured is that the way it's structured is it? workers today are it? the workers today are contributing their contributing it from their perspective. in

perspective. they've grafted in conditions make conditions that would make today's look like i today's workforce look like i don't what so, so don't know what so, so, so, so that indeed is may very be true. >> but that doesn't mean that you necessarily do an you necessarily have to do an 8.5% and part of the 8.5% rise. and part of the reason for that rise is because the government gave a public sector really off sector a really big one off bonus this year, which then bonus this year, which was then reflected income increase reflected in the income increase statistics, which then has been fed higher pensions. fed through to higher pensions. so as not as so it's not as it's not as simple as a first looks. what i really like to see is a proper discussion about ensuring that those about those pensioners you talk about the are just on the the ones who are just on the state pension are better off, whilst whilst pensioners who have amount of have a significant amount of private have private savings, who have significant private significant amount of private pension, necessarily need pension, don't necessarily need these as much. i'd these increases as much. so i'd actually lot actually like to see a lot better targeting in the pension system these system rather than these big payments pensioners, whether payments to pensioners, whether you need not. you need it or not. >> and i completely agree with matthew. i agree. i agree. actually, agree but actually, i agree on that. but i mean, what we also know is, is that everything the triple that like everything the triple lock bribe. mean, you lock was a bribe. i mean, you know, i tell my know, pensioners, as i tell my children, much more likely children, are much more likely to vote than young people. and children, are much more likely to you than young people. and children, are much more likely to you bribe young people. and children, are much more likely to you bribe them. people. and children, are much more likely to you bribe them. peorthat's d so you bribe them. and that's what the triple lock was. and

that will go on. and if they did, if they hadn't have done it, they they were worried it, they they were very worried that vote. conservative >> well, i can tell you now, i say everyone that says the say everyone that says that the state etcetera, state pension, etcetera, shouldn't that. shouldn't be rising like that. it to be very careful what it needs to be very careful what we for, because we all wish for, because ultimately single one of ultimately every single one of us, if we're lucky, us, god willing, if we're lucky, will get be a pensioner in will get to be a pensioner in our life. and then what will you do then, when you suddenly become 60, 70 odd and then you realise, look, poultry is long over then you over 60 pension. and then you remember that when you were young didn't want it to young you didn't want it to rise. i can hear your fury, you guys, who it's a good time to end the show. that is all i've got time for. i'll tell him off for you in the break, richard tice. up next. good evening. >> i'm alex deakin. this is your latest weather update from the met office for gb news. the wind's picking up a bit tonight and tomorrow particularly so across north. largely dry in across the north. largely dry in the south tomorrow, but it's going to turn cold for all of us by friday. still got high pressure nearby to the south—west. this cold front

south—west. but this cold front will be introducing the colder air the isobars squeeze air as the isobars squeeze together winds picking up a together the winds picking up a very blustery night across northern scotland, particularly so northern got so in the northern isles. got a wet for the highlands and wet night for the highlands and that slowly edging south that rain slowly edging south across isles, across the western isles, further south, patchy rain further south, some patchy rain over of southern over the hills of southern scotland and northern england. but places will be dry. the but many places will be dry. the breeze and the cloud will help to keep the temperatures up. so a night than of late, but a milder night than of late, but it turn colder it is going to turn colder initially tomorrow across scotland. so there'll be some initially tomorrow across scotla spells there'll be some initially tomorrow across scotla spells developing, ome initially tomorrow across scotla spells developing, bute sunny spells developing, but there'll be blustery showers across far north. a wet across the far north. a wet morning through the central belt. spreading south belt. that rain spreading south into ireland eventually into northern ireland eventually into northern ireland eventually into northern england. but a good of england and wales, good part of england and wales, again some sunshine again looking dry. some sunshine across of the south and across parts of the south and east, easily seeing temperatures up to 12, maybe 13 celsius. but there's the cold, dry air. single digits and feeling even colder the wind across colder with the wind across scotland and the air scotland and the colder air spreads for south your friday, some patchy rain in the south—west. showers coming into the north—east. they'll be wintry in nature. some sleet and

snow even to lower levels. for many, though, will just many, though, friday will just be cnsp many, though, friday will just be crisp day . but you be a bright, crisp day. but you will notice that drop in temperatures, single figures and

>> hello and welcome to farage, hosted by me tonight , hosted by me tonight, christopher hope. tonight i'll be joined by the gb news economics and business editor liam halligan and reform uk leader richard tice. of course, tonight the big story is only one in town. the autumn statement has national insurance is cut, the living wage rises and a tax break for businesses is made permanent is all being overshadowed as the overall tax burden is set to reach 70 year burden is set to reach a 70 year high. we'll discuss that. plus former minister for london and small business minister and tory mp for sutton and cheam paul scully joins me to discuss the benefits, crackdown the plan benefits, crackdown and the plan to people