well . well. >> good morning and welcome to the camilla tominey show. it's freezing cold outside , so don't freezing cold outside, so don't go anywhere for the next 90 minutes because we've got another bumper show for you lined up as usual. another bumper show for you lined up as usual . as lined up as usual. as temperatures plummet, can the nhs handle another winter crisis 7 i'll be nhs handle another winter crisis .7 i'll be quizzing the health minister, maria caulfield, about that. i'll also be joined by tory big beasts , david davis. tory big beasts, david davis. we'll be discussing the possible sale newspaper, the sale of my newspaper, the telegraph. there's been a row

brewing after it emerged that a fund backed by the united arab emirates could be trying to buy it. i'm also going to be joined by rosie duffield for an exclusive interview where she discusses plans to deselect discusses the plans to deselect her from the labour party . her from the labour party. that'll be very interesting . that'll be very interesting. stay tuned for that. she's a being taken on by those in the party who don't agree with her stance on trans issues. they've accused her of anti—semitism. so she'll discussing and she'll be discussing and revealing all a little later. since the start of the israel—hamas truce last week, 115 israeli hostages have been released from gaza . but the released from gaza. but the israeli government say 135 captives still remain , with captives still remain, with fighting having resumed between israel and hamas. it doesn't look like any will be released any time soon. i'm going to be speaking to brother of one speaking to the brother of one of who is still trapped in of those who is still trapped in gaza and another week, another royal will get the lowdown royal row will get the lowdown on all of the fallout from the release of omid scobie's book endgame. i'm looking forward to all that. don't anywhere. all of that. don't go anywhere. make of tea. not go make a cup of tea. do not go outdoors. it's too cold. outdoors. it's far too cold. stick me while i wear this

stick with me while i wear this red dress. probably the red dress. it's probably the tightest i've ever tried tightest dress i've ever tried to on. hopefully still to put on. hopefully i'll still be comfortable the end of the be comfortable by the end of the 90 minutes. let's bring charles kenningham conversation kenningham into the conversation now. former of now. he's a former director of communications downing communications at 10 downing street a podcast street and the host of a podcast called hacks and flacks, which is a lot of fun. charles lovely to see this morning. now i had to see this morning. now i had to double take when i saw the front page of the sunday telegraph star piles praise on thatcher to woo the right and he's written an op ed for the newspaper, which, let's be honest, it's no secret it's right leaning and this op ed basically says, you know , voters basically says, you know, voters have been betrayed on brexit and immigration. i stand ready to deliver. so starmer , channelling deliver. so starmer, channelling his inner maggie is this credible, charles, what's your reaction to this? >> let's see it for what it is. it is naked, transparent. move to park his tanks on on tory lawn on the tory lawn . and i lawn on the tory lawn. and i think we've got to see the backdrop of this. there is a lot of there is a spectre of a potential general election in

may. labour haven't got many policies. they've rolled out. they're that pitch they're trying to do that pitch to england. think to middle england. do i think it's going to move the dial? no, i think i think what's i think what's i think what's interesting about all of this is i not think there's going to i do not think there's going to be a general election in may, but i think tories have done but i think the tories have done it trap for labour to try it as a trap for labour to try and force them to take some policy positions clearly policy positions because clearly starmer i'll do starmer stance was like, i'll do nothing. sell under the nothing. i'll sell under the radar and i'll be of the radar and i'll be none of the above. and so i will get into power. but i don't labour power. but i don't think labour are going need to get are now going do we need to get these out the door these policies out the door really, quickly? they really, really quickly? and they haven't ready. they're haven't got them ready. they're not bomb proof. so therefore you've trying make you've got them trying to make these pitches to these sort of pitches to different parts of the electorate. to electorate. i'm just going to make little apology your make a little apology for your fruity there, charles, fruity language there, charles, but worries. but no worries. >> sunday morning. we're >> it's a sunday morning. we're all excited an all getting excited because an election imminent. election is imminent. the other thing starmer, course, thing about starmer, of course, is that he seems to is this idea that he seems to have decided to just go fully centrist if not a little bit blue doesn't seem to blue labour. he doesn't seem to care of the left care about some of the hard left elements of party. i mean, elements of his party. i mean, the idea of channelling thatcher

isn't going down very well isn't going to go down very well with mean, think with them. i mean, they think that thatcher like the most that thatcher is like the most evil of the 20th century. evil figure of the 20th century. she you say it's not going she and you say it's not going to move the but aren't the to move the dial, but aren't the tories worried that there no tories worried that there is no jeopardy with as there jeopardy with starmer as there was corbyn? you know, was with corbyn? you know, people the streets britain people on the streets of britain probably ed . probably agree with that op ed. nothing to be working. you nothing seems to be working. you know, going to hell in know, we're all going to hell in a handcart maybe they are a handcart and maybe they are thinking thinking a handcart and maybe they are thin blair. thinking a handcart and maybe they are thin blair. hooray. thinking a handcart and maybe they are thin blair. hooray. we1inking a handcart and maybe they are thin blair. hooray. we wantg a handcart and maybe they are thin blair. hooray. we want tony like blair. hooray. we want tony in way. but they are in the same way. but they are thinking nah, know, thinking, nah, you know, starmer, could it be? starmer, how bad could it be? >> i think neither the >> i think i think neither the tories or the labour have actually set out what the big idea is, the big vision is. idea is, what the big vision is. and i think for starmer there has some substantive has to be some substantive policies. he's making the has to be some substantive policinoises. he's making the has to be some substantive policinoises. yes,; making the has to be some substantive policinoises. yes, he's(ing the right noises. yes, he's continuing detoxify the continuing to detoxify the labour party. and it's interesting, he talks about thatcher entrepreneurial thatcher and entrepreneurial ism because their weakest because for labour their weakest sort of policy is the economy. they're still not trusted on that. so he's doing a lot to try and detoxify, the of and detoxify, but at the end of the day, still haven't seen the day, we still haven't seen any substantive policy from them. this on this them. i think on this on this matter a kind your matter from a kind of from your experience working number 10,

experience working in number 10, this of silent this whole kind of silent assassin mean just assassin routine mean just sound bite over substance. >> they don't need to say anything until manifesto. anything until the manifesto. just let the tories hang themselves because that's not a bad strategy is because bad strategy, is it? because they're ahead points in they're still ahead 20 points in the polls. >> but midterm polls are soft. and remember, i think starmer has got get bigger swing than has got to get bigger swing than blair in 97. know, so blair got in 97. you know, so i think actually think the most think i actually think the most likely the likely outcome probably at the moment, at the polls is moment, looking at the polls is going to be a lab lib coalition rather majority and rather than labour majority and bear he's got to hope, bear in mind, he's got to hope, will the libs go into coalition ' 7 m. again? >> i mean, they wouldn't go into coalition with the tories, but maybe would. labour yeah, coalition with the tories, but mfeels would. labour yeah, coalition with the tories, but mfeels like would. labour yeah, coalition with the tories, but mfeels like they're labour yeah, coalition with the tories, but mfeels like they're much r yeah, coalition with the tories, but mfeels like they're much more], it feels like they're much more ideologically left leaning, a much of aligned with much more sort of aligned with some seem be more some lib dems seem to be more left wing than keir starmer. to be talk about more be fair, let's talk about more cash kigali now. the sunday cash for kigali now. the sunday times front rwanda's extra times front page. rwanda's extra 15 seal migration. i 15 million to seal migration. i appreciate million is a lot appreciate 15 million is a lot of anybody watching or of quid to anybody watching or listening fact, to listening to this. in fact, to either us, i wouldn't mind. either of us, i wouldn't mind. £15 million, it's a lot £15 million, but it's not a lot of money in the scheme of things. however won't voters just are you throwing just think why are you throwing more thing?

more money at this thing? you know not working. these know it's not working. these flights aren't going to take off. should they just ditch the rwanda don't rwanda policy? giles i don't think can. think they can. >> this become the tories think they can. >> teurope. become the tories think they can. >> teurope. it'some the tories think they can. >> teurope. it's the the tories think they can. >> teurope. it's the big tories new europe. it's the big political headache for sunak and some of is about party some of this is about party management. you've lots management. but you've seen lots of in papers today of reports in the papers today saying existential for saying it's existential for sunak. saying it's existential for sunak . lots of are putting sunak. lots of mps are putting in letters of no confidence in, i think cleverly got off to a bit of a shaky start with the times interview where he said rwanda wasn't essentially a number policy for and number one policy for him and the home which upset the home office, which upset a lot the tory right wing end lot of the tory right wing end all, says. so think they're all, he says. so i think they're going to find a way to going to have to find a way to cut through this and clearly, the whole issue of the boats, immigration, uncontrolled immigration, uncontrolled imfocustion immigration, uncontrolled imfocus groups. i mean, in focus groups. i mean, interestingly , lee starmer interestingly, lee starmer mentions in his op ed today. mentions it in his op ed today. he they've got try he said, see, they've got to try and get handle on this. and get a handle on this. >> labour have got the answers on immigration we're yet to on immigration yet. we're yet to hear of them. you used to hear any of them. you used to work cameron. i'm work for david cameron. i'm intrigued you intrigued to know what you think. foreign think. cameron as foreign secretary, the secretary, might make of the rwanda because it doesn't rwanda plan because it doesn't seem to be the kind of thing that support. i think

that he would support. i think he you've got he said that unless you've got a better then don't snipe better idea, then don't snipe from the sidelines. >> i think when he was an overwhelming endorsement, when he government, he he was he was in government, he talked getting immigration he was he was in government, he talke(to getting immigration he was he was in government, he talke(to tensing immigration he was he was in government, he talke(to tensingthousands,>n down to the tens of thousands, which succeed with. which we didn't succeed with. i think ostensibly he wouldn't have come back into the fold if he support this. and he didn't support this. and i think he's pretty sort of think he's been pretty sort of vocal straightforward vocal and straightforward on it. >> there problem with >> isn't there a problem with him into the fold him coming back into the fold that makes rishi sunak look that he makes rishi sunak look slightly less prime ministerial? i and i mean, he is a good and competent statesman, he? competent statesman, isn't he? cameron op ed in cameron he's done this op ed in the on sunday. he said only the sun on sunday. he said only unity, strength and resilience will our dangerous world. i will calm our dangerous world. i mean, of mean, that's the sort of rhetoric that prime minister rhetoric that the prime minister should coming out with, really. >> mean, think ultimately he >> i mean, i think ultimately he is an for when is an asset for sunak. when cameron was minister, he is an asset for sunak. when cam haigwas minister, he is an asset for sunak. when cam haig ass minister, he is an asset for sunak. when cam haig as foreign minister, he is an asset for sunak. when cam haig as foreign secretaryhe had haig as foreign secretary who around those who would sit around for those big decisions. often, you big decisions. and often, you know, in politics know, many problems in politics come circle. have come full circle. so to have someone who's been there, seen it, done it, who can offer you the sage is really the sage advice, is really useful. and bear in mind also, he jockeying he wasn't jockeying for position. want to position. he didn't want to become i don't become prime minister. i don't think wants become think cameron wants to become prime he's been there

prime minister. he's been there and suppose the and done that. i suppose the question the tories is does question for the tories is does just by the very fact that he is a very good performer, he a very good media performer, he looks minister or is looks prime minister or he is good on the world stage. does he start overshadow sunak? start to overshadow sunak? and the them will be the question for them will be how they use him during how much do they use him during a election campaign? a general election campaign? i suspect campaigner, though i suspect campaigner, though i suspect use him quite suspect they will use him quite a yeah. suspect they will use him quite a i yeah. suspect they will use him quite a i mean, okay, we can say that >> i mean, okay, we can say that he didn't campaign adequately on brexit because brexit and remain because obviously in many obviously leave won and in many respects of his closest respects some of his closest allies. i think are still frustrated that away frustrated that he walked away in 2016. at the same time, in 2016. but at the same time, i think probably will put him think they probably will put him on campaign and on the campaign trail. and again, he overshadow his again, he may overshadow his boss, i mean, boss, so to speak. i mean, physically, there's a discrepancy which doesn't discrepancy there, which doesn't play discrepancy there, which doesn't play that play very well. there was that picture lot of publicity. >> wasn't that him walking alongside sunak and cleverly and he tallest and in the he was the tallest and in the middle, everyone middle, you know, which everyone said look more prime ministerial. >> yeah, thought so. but they >> yeah, i thought so. but they just to get the optics just need to get the optics right it. presumably he's right on it. presumably he's also the point that we also made the point that we can't forget the situation in ukraine, which i think is valid. >> there, >> also interesting there, he talks about strengthening ties

with the us, which is interesting. backdrop of interesting. the backdrop of obviously quite obviously we've had quite a rocky under under rocky relationship under under biden johnson biden and obviously johnson didn't him didn't get on with him very well. no love lost well. there was no love lost there. know, do we still there. you know, do we still have that special relationship? but talks, it up. so but he talks, talks it up. so he's there. and also he's going there. and also interesting talks about the importance although interesting talks about the impor might although interesting talks about the impor might thatalthough interesting talks about the impor might that a hough interesting talks about the impormight that a bit|gh some might find that a bit ironic he was accused of ironic because he was accused of cosying up too much to barack obama, obviously obama, who is obviously a democrat than democrat president, rather than maintaining republicans. >> i mean, the tories should have good relationship with the republican with both have good relationship with the replseems with both have good relationship with the replseems eviscerated1 that seems to have eviscerated over course the last few over the course of the last few years. having said that, so perhaps think they're perhaps as i think they're going to the spectre a to have to the spectre of a trump potential, trump president ship i know, but ship coming. but i know, but when is going be when cameron is going to be comfortable out and comfortable going out and meeting have to do meeting trump, he'll have to do that the time comes that this that if the time comes that this guy it could guy is re—elected, it could be could interesting. yeah, could be interesting. yeah, i think he's pragmatic. so right. no, fair enough. let's talk about telegraph, as we're about the telegraph, as we're calling what calling it, shakedown. love what we've there. my colleague we've done there. my colleague janet out against janet daley has come out against the uae having the idea of the uae having ownership of the newspaper by paying ownership of the newspaper by paying this that the paying back this loan that the barclay to lloyds

barclay brothers have to lloyds bank.the barclay brothers have to lloyds bank. the headline of her piece is paper proposed is this paper is proposed takeover a state must not be takeover by a state must not be allowed to happen. and i'm just intrigued with your former number on charles. i number 10 hat on charles. i mean, do you think that rishi sunak and indeed culture secretary lucy fraser are going to let telegraph of all to let the telegraph of all newspapers fall into the hands of foreign state that doesn't of a foreign state that doesn't seem much respect seem to have that much respect for of the press? for freedom of the press? >> i mean, ostensibly you >> yeah, i mean, ostensibly you think be a crazy move think it would be a crazy move to government own to let another government own a paper? are many other paper? there are many other rival which look eminently rival bids which look eminently sensible paper. sensible to own the paper. i think got to be very think we've got to be very careful this country what we careful in this country what we allow other states to own. and we've seen it football we've seen it with football clubs. know, it's the clubs. you know, it's the ultimate power tool, ultimate soft power tool, whether owning saudis, whether it's owning the saudis, owning newcastle united, quite controversial. so, yes, do i think they should intervene? yes. i think a foreign state yes. do i think a foreign state should own it? no. very interesting yourself should own it? no. very inteiasting yourself should own it? no. very inteia couple yourself should own it? no. very inteia couple of yourself should own it? no. very inteia couple of otherourself should own it? no. very inteia couple of other columnists and a couple of other columnists have come out and spoken out against it. and it feels like sentiment certainly sentiment is certainly moving against sentiment is certainly moving agawell, we live in hope. let's >> well, we live in hope. let's finally talk about the story that's dominated the headlines all week. harry and meghan . so

all week. harry and meghan. so the latest from the sunday times, which is also covered on the front of the mail on sunday, is this idea that the duke of westminster, hugh grosvenor, who's a very good friend of both william harry, he's getting william and harry, he's getting married chester married in chester in the summer. it's the society wedding, not of the year, wedding, not just of the year, but because but the century, because obviously the duke of westminster one the westminster is one of the country's richest men, he's country's richest men, and he's decided that he'll invite william, but not harry. i mean , william, but not harry. i mean, how do you think this whole scandal, if you like , has played scandal, if you like, has played out for both the royals and indeed the sussexes charles? i mean, it almost feels like if harry and meghan, they're fighting a war against themselves because the royal family really reacting to family aren't really reacting to a this. a lot of this. >> i think essentially it's the law diminishing returns for law of diminishing returns for harry have harry and meghan. they can have a once on this. they keep a go once on this. they keep having think people are having a go. i think people are going to stop listening. interestingly, i don't think they well the uk, they poll very well in the uk, so a pr perspective, can so from a pr perspective, can they come here and where do they come back here and where do they come back here and where do they the they've been they go in the us? they've been dumped over that dumped by spotify over that deal dumped by spotify over that deal. you see this kind of deal. so you see this kind of move to try and become relevant

and they become relevant and the way they become relevant is shriller is becoming shriller and shriller shriller. don't shriller and shriller. i don't think works, no. shriller and shriller. i don't thiralso,/orks, no. shriller and shriller. i don't thiralso, i'm;, no. shriller and shriller. i don't thiralso, i'm wondering whether >> also, i'm wondering whether they've got left to say they've got anything left to say now. know, the so—called now. you know, the so—called alleged racist who alleged royal racist who questioned archie's skin tone or a future tone have a future baby skin tone have been as the king and the been outed as the king and the princess of and yet, at princess of wales. and yet, at the same most don't the same time, most people don't think that it was racist to suggest it in the first place. but secondly, takes the sting but secondly, it takes the sting out that meghan was out of any book that meghan was planning or any further planning to write or any further revelations this of i'm revelations. so this sort of i'm kind looking at them kind of looking at them thinking, more now thinking, what more do you now have say? thinking, what more do you now haerah, ay? thinking, what more do you now haerah, they're looking >> yeah, they're just looking very instead of actually very bitter instead of actually just and moving on just standing back and moving on with their lives. >> charles kenningham, thank >> so charles kenningham, thank you very much joining me you very much for joining me this great analysis of this morning. great analysis of the as say, the papers. well, as i say, we've got very, very busy show we've got a very, very busy show planned we're going to we've got a very, very busy show plé speaking we're going to we've got a very, very busy show pléspeaking to we're going to we've got a very, very busy show pléspeaking to davide going to we've got a very, very busy show pléspeaking to david davis; to we've got a very, very busy show pléspeaking to david davis. i'm be speaking to david davis. i'm also to speaking to also going to be speaking to rosie duffield. so don't go anywhere. health minister anywhere. the health minister maria caulfield, in just maria caulfield, also up in just a minute. first, here's the weather. >> brighter with boxt >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar of weather solar solar sponsors of weather on . gb news.

on. gb news. >> good morning. welcome to your latest gb news weather. i'm ellie glaisyer. it's a cold and frosty start this morning across the northern half of the uk. however, a bit of a cloudier picture across the southern half. showers continue to push in from the west. these turning to over the high ground of to snow over the high ground of wales, parts of the pennines as well. perhaps seeing ten well. perhaps seeing up to ten centimetres and icy centimetres of snow and some icy conditions expected this conditions expected through this morning. further north, though, under skies across under those clear skies across scotland, sunshine scotland, plenty of sunshine around through this afternoon, but feeling cold in that sunshine. spots perhaps sunshine. some spots perhaps staying freezing. however, staying below freezing. however, further south under that cloud and rain, much milder day and rain, a much milder day around 8 to 10 degrees. but some strong winds from the southwest, perhaps a notch off those perhaps taking a notch off those temperatures. those strong winds in southwest will bring in the southwest will bring another slowly another band of rain slowly tracking its way north and eastwards sunday eastwards through sunday night and morning , and into monday morning, bringing heavy rainfall bringing some heavy rainfall across the southern half of the uk to start new working uk to start the new working week. likely to turn to week. there's likely to turn to snow parts wales and snow across parts of wales and northwest and northwest england again. and another night across parts another cold night across parts of northern england, parts of

scotland seeing down to —5 or —6, but a little milder under that cloud and rain across the south. so rain, cloud, sleet and hill snow likely to spread its way slowly south and eastwards as we go through the day. on monday this again turning to snow, particularly across parts monday this again turning to sn walesrticularly across parts monday this again turning to sn walesrticulnorthern ss parts monday this again turning to sn walesrticulnorthern england. of wales and northern england. however for northern ireland, northern england of northern england and parts of scotland, a scotland, definitely seeing a much brighter day and perhaps just a touch milder, too. temperatures still widely in the low single figures, but perhaps just milder across the just a touch milder across the very southwest. just looks very far southwest. just looks like things are heating up, boxed boilers, sponsors of weather on . gb news. weather on. gb news. >> welcome back to the camilla tominey show. we're just waiting for maria caulfield, the health minister, to be ready to speak to me down the line. i'm going to me down the line. i'm going to bring giles cunningham back into conversation now. into the conversation now. i mean, health is mean, obviously health is a massive issue. it always polls very highly you ask the very highly when you ask the electorate what's most important to you it to be an

to you is it going to be an election defining issue like it was previous because was in previous years? because obviously crisis , obviously cost of living crisis, it's the economy, stupid. as the clintonian once said. but equally, immigration is a massive issue, isn't it? >> i mean, labour will want to make it about the nhs because they well on it. the they poll so well on it. the tories will be looking to neutralise the i suspect neutralise the issue. i suspect it be of but it will be part of it. but immigration i think, seems to be the number one political issue and of living. and cost of living. >> also i think >> so yeah, and also i think with regard to the nhs, i mean maybe people is there of maybe people is there a bit of fatigue in talking about the nhs because spend much time because we spend so much time talking it during the talking about it during the pandemic you've now got the pandemic and you've now got the covid inquiry, which has been going detail. going through minute detail. maria with me now. maria caulfield is with me now. thank giles thank you very much. giles minister, very much minister, thank you very much for joining me this morning. forjoining me this morning. nice see you. look, i've i've nice to see you. look, i've i've seen the government handout for today. you today. it's announcing that you want things in a quicker, want to do things in a quicker, more and slicker way . more efficient and slicker way. i'm sure you're going to point to the idea of you having recruited 50,000 more nurses. there are 5 million more gp appointments patients. but as mental health and indeed women's

health strategy lead in the department of health, we have got a problem, haven't we, with the mental health cover offered by nhs? for instance , mental by the nhs? for instance, mental health nurses are . down 467 health nurses are. down 467 since 2010. so are the government being a bit selective with some of the figures that they're releasing to the press this morning. they're releasing to the press this morning . are she's frozen? this morning. are she's frozen? no we'll try and get maria caulfield back . hopefully i caulfield back. hopefully i won't have to repeat that whole question. i'll bring giles back into the conversation. anne, i mean, it's difficult, this, isn't it? because everybody associates that johnson associates that boris johnson promising, wasn't it, 40,000 new nurses, 40 new hospitals and all the rest of it. and people are waiting on lists. you know, this is an astonishing statistic which i'll put to the minister if we can get her that people who are told that they need to urgently be referred by their gp, they're meant to be seen

within a target of i think it is 85% of people should be seen within two months actually that targets been completely missed for successive months. this waiting list that rishi sunak talks about cutting is going to top at 7.8 million we think next year. top at 7.8 million we think next year . so i top at 7.8 million we think next year. so i mean, where's the performance from the government? >> you've got to remember that you've got the backdrop of covid, think has covid, which i think has significantly impacted on waiting and you know, the waiting lists. and you know, the way operates. but you're way the nhs operates. but you're right is political hot right, it is a political hot potato for the tories. and i remember every time during the 2015 we brought up 2015 election we brought up the issue and we highlighted their record where of course record in wales where of course they're power. our poll they're in power. our poll ratings down. it wasn't ratings went down. so it wasn't even we could have even like we could have an honest conversation on so honest conversation on it. so yes, it's very divisive issue. >> do you reckon rishi sunak whole my dad was a gp and my mum's a pharmacist shtick makes any the electorate. any impact on the electorate. i mean, you they view mean, how do you think they view him? do they think that he's somebody who understands the pressures that the nhs is under, or just see as or do they just see him as somebody quite rich who probably has private health? that's the

trouble, right? >> feel that emotional >> do people feel that emotional connection? he has connection? do they think he has empathy? know, obviously empathy? you know, obviously he's well do feel he's very well off. do they feel like he can connect? and obviously, part of his obviously, that's part of his back saying, i came obviously, that's part of his back quite saying, i came obviously, that's part of his back quite humble i came obviously, that's part of his back quite humble beginningse obviously, that's part of his back quite humble beginnings and obviously, that's part of his bworkedte humble beginnings and obviously, that's part of his bworked myumble beginnings and obviously, that's part of his bworked my wayle beginnings and obviously, that's part of his bworked my way up.eginnings and obviously, that's part of his bworked my way up.egthinkgs and i worked my way up. i think generally the electorate we found with cameron, who found with david cameron, who came know, very came from, you know, a very privileged he didn't privileged background, he didn't try from it. try and run away from it. they're more interested in they're much more interested in like, is where i've come like, this is where i've come from, do i want to get from, but where do i want to get to? are we going as a to? where are we going as a country? would be the country? so that would be the question mark. >> the interesting thing >> but the interesting thing about cameron, was reflecting about cameron, i was reflecting on when he was appointed as on this when he was appointed as foreign he foreign secretary actually, he had understanding had a fundamental understanding of of his of the nhs because of his late son, who profound son, ivan, who had profound disabilities birth. also, disabilities at birth. also, cameron's was cameron's late father was disabled and wheelchair bound. cameron's late father was disabled a he wheelchair bound. cameron's late father was disabled a he was, lchair bound. cameron's late father was disabled ahe was, of|air bound. cameron's late father was disabled ahe was, of course,1d. you know, he was, of course, eton and very eton educated and very privileged. but there was a sense which did understand sense to which he did understand actually the other half actually how the other half lived. because of this, you know, he had lived. because of this, you knovhis he had lived. because of this, you knovhis eldest he had lived. because of this, you knovhis eldest child.|e had lived. because of this, you knovhis eldest child. s0|ad with his eldest child. so i don't know whether rishi sunak is making the same connection because he's not doing enough of the personal. i mean, isn't that also a problem like people are looking prime minister

looking at this prime minister i get wife, akshata did get that his wife, akshata did the speech at conference, which was unexpected. aren't was unexpected. but aren't people saying , people looking at them saying, look, you really? and look, who are you really? and yet he seems to be reluctant to do the private because do the private stuff because he thinks to be thinks it's good enough to be working hard behind the scenes. >> is that good enough? well, i think to take think he's going to have to take more risks. know, we've got more risks. you know, we've got less 12 months to an less than 12 months to an election now. you're going to have him doing more of have to see him doing more of those town hall events, more of those town hall events, more of those of events where he's those sort of events where he's rolling getting those sort of events where he's rolling about, getting those sort of events where he's rolling about, talkingjetting those sort of events where he's rolling about, talking toting those sort of events where he's rolling about, talking to the public. >> do we have to see politicians roll up their sleeves, gives you more, gives you more opportunity to them, go out to baby grill them, but go out and exactly press the flesh and do exactly press the flesh because i think a lot of people don't really know him. >> only been in for >> he's only been in power for a yeah >> he's only been in power for a year. i think is to year. and i think there is to some extent, some of that emotional disconnect going on. >> that the >> but then also, isn't that the criticism starmer that you criticism of starmer that you look him and you're like, who look at him and you're like, who is okay, he's a former is this guy? okay, he's a former lawyer, former of the lawyer, former head of the director public director for public prosecutions, job, but prosecutions, a big job, but then something then there's something a bit robotic them both. i mean, robotic about them both. i mean, this absence of a kind of

this is the absence of a kind of character full politician like boris. quite boris. ironically, they're quite similar with boris. >> there was a very clear contrast. they're both quite dry, technocratic politicians who the world who don't really set the world on and some extent, on fire and so for some extent, it have been easier for it would have been easier for labour if johnson there labour if johnson had been there in a direct contrast of in terms of a direct contrast of two characters. in terms of a direct contrast of two butiracters. in terms of a direct contrast of two but then rs. in terms of a direct contrast of two but then at the same time, >> but then at the same time, does that entice people to come out and vote? we saw out and vote? you know, we saw at by elections at the by elections a historically low turnout. you made the point would a lab made the point about would a lab lib be more likely made the point about would a lab lib a be more likely made the point about would a lab lib a lab be more likely made the point about would a lab lib a lab majority'e likely made the point about would a lab lib a lab majority , likely made the point about would a lab lib a lab majority , notely made the point about would a lab lib a lab majority , not least than a lab majority, not least because in the by elections they didn't increase their vote share at all. just capitalised on at all. they just capitalised on the tories not really turning out to vote. this is what you feel like. >> you don't feel like starmer is riding that wave popular is riding that wave of popular optimism was in 97. optimism that blair was in 97. and starmer needs a bigger and yet starmer needs a bigger swing than blair got. which is why i think it is still quite likely won't necessarily likely that he won't necessarily get a majority. he's got huge electoral mountain to climb. get a majority. he's got huge electomayrountain to climb. get a majority. he's got huge electo may wellain to climb. get a majority. he's got huge electomay wellain to c lab». get a majority. he's got huge electomay wellain to c lab lib there may well be this lab lib coalition and i don't think it is good enough for him just to sort say none of the sort of say i'm none of the above. got to actually see above. we've got to actually see what's picture, what's

what's the big picture, what's the big idea in world where, the big idea in a world where, let's are going let's face it, we are going through periods of probably unprecedented volatility and uncertainty, unprecedented volatility and unci also 1ty, the unprecedented volatility and uncialso 1ty, the foreign stage. but also on the foreign stage. >> thank you very much for >> yeah, thank you very much for the thank you. i don't the giles thank you. i don't think we're going get maria think we're going to get maria caulfield because had caulfield because we've had a problem with her line, unfortunately, be honest, unfortunately, to be honest, i do to that we do ask do want to say that we do ask every week for the government to give minister on the give us the minister on the ground, secretary, ground, the health secretary, victoria atkins, us victoria atkins, didn't do us last time, done us this last time, hasn't done us this time. sure the time. not quite sure why the government don't the health government don't want the health secretary address viewers secretary to address gb viewers and listeners. but there and indeed listeners. but there you somebody who does and indeed listeners. but there you to somebody who does and indeed listeners. but there you to address1ebody who does and indeed listeners. but there you to address you dy who does and indeed listeners. but there you to address you and ho does and indeed listeners. but there you to address you and will oes want to address you and will discuss matters are discuss the matters that are really important to you as the discuss the matters that are reaiaudience ant to you as the discuss the matters that are reaiaudience is. to you as the discuss the matters that are reaiaudience is. of you as the discuss the matters that are reaiaudience is. of course, the discuss the matters that are reaiaudience is. of course, my gb gb audience is. of course, my gb news colleague, michael portillo. michael tell us what you've got coming on your you've got coming up on your show at 11. >> morning , show at 11. >> morning, camilla. i'm >> good morning, camilla. i'm going to talking the going to be to talking the family of a 21 year old male hostage. her family is in israel . i'll be asking them how they feel now that rather fewer than half of the hostages who were taken on october 7 have been released. what are their feelings going to feelings now? we're going to have discussion on have an ethical discussion on

the elgin marbles, if that's what choose to them. what you choose to call them. some call the some people call them the parthenon marbles. question parthenon marbles. the question is, should they london is, where should they be? london or athens ? and really, why ? or athens? and really, why? there's a new movie . ridley there's a new movie. ridley scott has produced a movie on napoleon. i'll be talking to a cambridge historian about the level of accuracy that there is in that movie. you may see from my face that the level is not particularly high. we're going to be sampling in the studio some english wines because we need to know what is the best thing to be drinking this christmas. and it would be nice to be patrick btec so camilla, you might want to hang around. >> well, i could, you know, i'm teetotal, so you'll have to dnnk teetotal, so you'll have to drink my wine for me. and then i also thought, you also thought, michael, that you had a 12:00 limit and had like a 12:00 limit and you're actually going to be imbibing noon on a imbibing before noon on a sunday, which is probably the way ahead. do you know what i was going to ask you with regard to the marbles, because to the elgin marbles, because i know you're a very learned fellow. you made of the fellow. what you made of the king wearing that greek tie to

cop 28 in dubai , because i was cop 28 in dubai, because i was quite astonished by it. you've had this row between rishi sunak and his greek counterpart. obviously accusing each other of playing politics with the elgin marbles and then charles iii turns up in what i thought was a bit of a statement tie and you're a man who likes statement ties and indeed jackets. so what did you think of that ? did you think of that? >> i was actually rather shocked . and i think the question i always ask is, would the late queen have done the same? would she have worn a scarf with the greek flag? i think the answer to that is extremely obvious. so to that is extremely obvious. so to tell you the truth , i was to tell you the truth, i was rather shocked by the king making what i thought was a political gesture. actually, i'm in those who wonder, in the camp of those who wonder, you know, whether the king should really speeches should really be making speeches about because about the environment, because it's all very well, i mean, the environment is quite political environment is quite a political issue. tell you why. issue. and i'll tell you why. it's political. it's political because in the end, it's about making lots of making decisions about lots of money that british citizens are going to have to spend, for

example, you know, changing their and those are not their boilers. and those are not considerations to considerations that need to weigh particularly heavily on the the king, because he the mind of the king, because he is taxpayer funded. so you is a taxpayer funded. so you know, i just wonder about the role of the monarchy in politics at the moment. yes. >> did you ever receive one of his famous black spider memos, michael? >> i, of course, am bound by secrecy as to what passed between me and the then prince of wales. well do you know what? >> let's discuss some other correspondents just while you're on the subject of royalty, because i love take on all because i love your take on all sorts of different matters is what did you of the whole what did you make of the whole harry meghan row week? harry and meghan row this week? because we've now got the tory harry and meghan row this week? becfore we've now got the tory harry and meghan row this week? becfor thez've now got the tory harry and meghan row this week? becfor the isle now got the tory harry and meghan row this week? becfor the isle novwight,1e tory harry and meghan row this week? becfor the isle novwight, bob ry mp for the isle of wight, bob seely, about legislation seely, talking about legislation to strip the sussexes of their titles. let's not forget these were that were given to were titles that were given to them marriage in 2018 them upon marriage in 2018 by them upon marriage in 2018 by the late queen. it will require a letters patent. i think, by the king to change this arrangement. i mean, do you think they are worthy of losing their titles? michael well, first of all, let me declare my position on titles.

>> i think titles are a bit of a nonsense . you may have noticed nonsense. you may have noticed that i've acquired very many that i've not acquired very many myself during my career, so a fuss about titles is not one that interests me at all. i mean, it seems to me that what meghan and harry might most enjoy in life is attention and if there's any means of depriving them of attention, i think that's more important than depriving them of titles, depriving them of titles, depriving them of titles, depriving them of titles would give them more attention in. >> and you'd have noticed in the week that the bbc sort of outed the names of the two alleged royal racist . it's with regard royal racist. it's with regard to having had this concerning conversation about about archie's skin tone, according to meghan on oprah winfrey , i mean, meghan on oprah winfrey, i mean, what's your impression of that? we've heard from trevor phillips saying he doesn't think that any discussion what child discussion of what a child might look to a mixed look like if born to a mixed race couple is racist. boris johnson even waded into it and said this is the sort of conversation we all have, whether we're black or white, to be honest. mean, we

be perfectly honest. i mean, we all what a baby all discuss what a baby might look like. all discuss what a baby might loo well, of course we do. i >> well, of course we do. i think this is absolutely absurd, and i just don't think helps and i just don't think it helps at all if the word colour at all that if the word colour crops up in a sentence, then people immediately talk about racism . and you're absolutely racism. and you're absolutely right. but boris johnson introduced us to this word antepartum , which means before antepartum, which means before birth. so ante partum discussions. and of course , in discussions. and of course, in any family they would say, i wonder whether this child is going to be red headed or blue eyed or black eyed and wondering about what mixture of characteristics will come from parents is the most natural thing in the world. okay, michael , thank you very much for that. >> we'll be up with rosie duffield

next welcome back to the camilla tominey show. much more to come in the next hour. tory grandee david davis will be giving me his thoughts shortly. we're also going to be speaking to a relative of one of the hostages who being held by who are still being held by hamas in gaza. who are still being held by hamas in gaza . all of that and hamas in gaza. all of that and more after the news with aaron armstrong . armstrong. >> and it's 10:00. very good >> and it's10:00. very good morning to you from the gb newsroom. let's bring you up to date with what's happening around the country in terms of the cold weather emergency services cumbria have been services in cumbria have been working help people trapped

working to help people trapped in their cars overnight after heavy snow. police who declared a major incident are urging people not to travel to the area. a large number of vehicles were abandoned on the m6 and cumbria police says its highways teams were verbally abused as they tried to help. yellow they tried to help. a yellow weather for and ice weather warning for snow and ice remains for parts remains in place for many parts of uk. senior meteorologist of the uk. senior meteorologist jim dale says milder conditions over coming days could now over the coming days could now lead floods . lead to floods. >> will tell you that area saw about a foot of snow level snow that now that if you melt that snow, which is what meteorologists do, it equates to an inch. tomorrow we got another system coming in, another system which has got low pressure attached to it's quite tight, attached to it's quite a tight, tight there'll be tight thing. so there'll be wind, also heavyweight rain wind, but also heavyweight rain as well. now, all that snow down and not just monday, but on wednesday as well, quite heavyweight rain. so all this snow and the rain attached to it that's coming, i think we might be looking at floods in midweek. again next to £15 million will

reportedly be given to rwanda to take migrants who arrive in the uk illegally. >> that's on top of the £140 million already received . the million already received. the sunday times says the additional funds aim to secure a treaty so the east african country also takes asylum seekers who crossed the boats . it's the channel in small boats. it's understood the foreign secretary, cleverly will secretary, james cleverly will fly kigali in the coming days fly to kigali in the coming days to deal . a man's died to seal the deal. a man's died and two people have been injured after a knife and hammer attack in central paris. it happened as tourists gathered near the eiffel tower last night. officials have confirmed man officials have confirmed the man who was german, a 26 year who died was german, a 26 year old french national known to security services has been arrested. the uk will carry out surveillance flights over the middle east to find hostages held by hamas. more than 130 people are still being held captive in gaza, where fighting has resumed following a week long truce. the ministry of defence says the unarmed flights will not have a combat role . will not have a combat role. meanwhile, israel continues to carry out intense airstrikes in southern gaza. the hamas run

health ministry says seven palestinians have been killed and several others injured in a raid on rafah city. the us is calling on israel to avoid further harm to civilians in its fight against hamas. the uk will give £100 million to vulnerable countries most affected by climate change. it will provide nafions climate change. it will provide nations with early warning systems for extreme weather and will help tackle food and water shortages and a rise in infectious diseases . the infectious diseases. the government says global warming pushes 26 million people into poverty every year . poverty every year. international development minister andrew mitchell will announce the plans at the cop 28 climate summit in dubai later. and that is it for the moment. we are live across the uk on tv digital radio and if you want us on your smart speaker, just say play on your smart speaker, just say play gb news. now it's over to . camilla >> thank you, aaron. welcome back to the camilla tominey show. lots more still to come. in a minute, i'm going to be joined by tory mp david davis.

i'll be speaking to a relative of one the israeli hostages of one of the israeli hostages still trapped in gaza. and labour mp duffield is labour mp rosie duffield is going join me to discuss her going to join me to discuss her party's plans deselect her. party's plans to deselect her. i'm also going to be speaking to my boss, the former my former boss, the former editor of the sunday express, martin to martin townsend, who's going to discuss the royal row has discuss the royal row that has engulfed the country seemingly since the release of omid scobie's new book. and i'm going to be joined. this is a fascinating story. stay tuned for little later by a for this a little later by a chaplain who was sacked from his job at a school and referred to the anti—terror prevent the anti—terror scheme. prevent it guess what, questioning it for guess what, questioning trans ideology . but before that, trans ideology. but before that, let's bring david davis into the into the conversation . he's the into the conversation. he's the conservative mp for halton price and howden is a former cabinet minister you're giggling away at the fact that i've got this guest on who's been referred to prevent for questioning trans. we'll to that later. we'll get on to that later. first of all, lovely to see you this morning, david. thank you for your time as ever. can we discuss this bid the uae to discuss this bid by the uae to take control of the telegraph ?

take control of the telegraph? what's your reaction to it ? what's your reaction to it? >> well, i wrote to the secretary of state some time ago asking to her do what she's actually done, which is to call it in to i think it's called a pubuc it in to i think it's called a public interest notification , public interest notification, because i just think it's wrong . because i just think it's wrong. i mean, we shouldn't normally, in my view , to allow people who in my view, to allow people who are outside the reach of our country to own major newspapers . country to own major newspapers. the telegraph is one of the most important newspapers in the country. it has massive influence both at elections , in influence both at elections, in people's general view and indeed, when they're when they're when they're a tory party leadership contest, as as may happen in the next few years , then they have a massive influence there, too. and why should we give that power . to should we give that power. to the emirates in this case, vice president of the emirates? you know, a country which in the past has not exactly treated

free press freedom with any sort of respect, you know , it's done of respect, you know, it's done the opposite. i think i think you've pointed out in your in yourin you've pointed out in your in your in your articles that, you know, its attitude to women as well. so there are all sorts of areas where clashes with what areas where it clashes with what i would think of as a national interest. >> i'm going to read a point from them in just a moment with regard sort of denying regard to them sort of denying that would suppress freedom that they would suppress freedom of before i do, of the press. but before i do, ofcom will obviously investigate this, but for this, but it's for the government ultimately. lucy frazer rishi sunak frazer and i guess rishi sunak to the to stop it. should the government stop it basically, government stop it? basically, david is the straight question mark. >> yes . yes, in my view, >> yes. yes, in my view, absolutely . and the argument the absolutely. and the argument the other argument i'll give you is this some some time ago , though, this some some time ago, though, we allowed rupert murdoch to buy the times right. we allowed rupert murdoch to buy the times right . and the sunday the times right. and the sunday times. and at that time, there were conditions put upon it and those conditions were broken and there was nothing we could do about it. i mean, we were told that the editor of the times would be independent. eventually one of them got sacked and we

couldn't anything it. couldn't do anything about it. and would apply with and the same would apply with the . frankly, we could the emirates. frankly, we could do protect it. do nothing to protect it. >> just read this >> let me just read this statement from redbud imai any transfer ownership will transfer of ownership will of course to regulatory course be subject to regulatory review and we will continue to cooperate fully with the government regulator, government and the regulator, redbird entirely redbird emi are entirely committed maintaining committed to maintaining the existing the existing editorial team of the telegraph spectator telegraph and spectator publications that publications and believe that editorial independence for these titles to titles is essential to protecting and protecting their reputation and credibility . we should also credibility. we should also point out that paul marshall, one of people bidding for one of the people bidding for the is a major investor the title, is a major investor in gb news. let's move on to the next story as we're thinking about before, before about gulf states before, before you do just 11. there, the originally they were just going to lend them the money. >> yeah. and then they they made it a convertible and it's going to be converted that in other words, they're going to take equity, are going take equity, they are going to take control. you them control. so if ever you get them on program, do ask them if on your program, do ask them if they really mean what they say, why are they taking control? >> yeah. okay. noted thank you,

david. let's move on to other matters, albeit gulf related cop 28. is it just a load of hot air? i was surprised to see rishi sunak, lord cameron and indeed the king all fly there in separate private jets . separate private jets. >> well , i i'm separate private jets. >> well, i i'm not going to get into their private. oh come on. >> i mean, it just makes a mockery of it, doesn't it? >> i, i don't think i don't think any of the people involved in, in green politics at the top level are particularly care for about the way they the way they use private jets and that's that's that's whether it's prime ministers kings or indeed actors and actresses who want to make some sort of coverage out of it. >> so what was good about it was there was some of the countries, at least a significant number are now seeming to take nuclear power seriously. i mean, it's one of the few routes that actually gives us some some chance of defeating this problem

. we're also seeing the british government doing more about deaung government doing more about dealing with the consequences. i've long thought that our attempts to deal with the increase in temperature are likely to fail for all sorts of reasons scientific and political , but actually dealing with the floods, dealing with the poverty , dealing with those things is a direct way we can do something about it with a decent chance of success. yes, at this time, for the first time, we've actually seen to we actually seem to be engaged on that. so actually, i'm i approve of that. i think despite the fact it's in the middle east, which an odd middle east, which is an odd place have , you know, a place to have, you know, a climate conference, nevertheless , given all the mostly oil and gas , the simple truth is they gas, the simple truth is they are at last focusing on things that matter. just as i mean, to be honest , you know, rishi's be honest, you know, rishi's recent commentary on and decisions on green matters, which was taken as oh denying

net zero. no, it's not. it's making net zero achievable for ordinary people. yes, we aren't all billionaires. we can't all afford vast sums of money and he's actually doing something towards that end. so i actually think it's been quite a good couple months. fair enough couple of months. fair enough for green agenda. for the green agenda. >> david, just quick word on >> david, just a quick word on the tie. he's wearing the king's tie. he's wearing greek tie during greek flags on his tie during a row over the elgin marbles. is he being too political there? briefly >> i think he's been spectacularly unwise . um, the spectacularly unwise. um, the truth is the king has obviously got views on many things. we know that . but the truth is, know that. but the truth is, being king, you have to kerb those views. you have the option of making your views known to the prime minister once a week. personally, that's something nobody else has. yeah, you don't need to start flashing ties or other views or why are you doing it? it's an abuse of the position, i'm afraid. and he should be.

>> david, i've got 90s left with you and i need to ask you as shadow home secretary, about some of these shambolic former shadow home secretary. i should add some of these promoted you . add some of these promoted you. promoted you to the other side . promoted you to the other side. it's not that bad for the tories. surely but briefly, we've seen this shambolic display by the head of the home office saying they don't know where 17,000 asylum seekers are who have withdrawn their applications. anderson also applications. lee anderson also questioned them. they didn't have of the figures. is the have any of the figures. is the home fit for purpose? home office fit for purpose? david well , home office fit for purpose? david well, many years ago, john, john reid said no. >> and at the time i didn't really agree with him because actually there was somebody there. the poem said there was really very good. but when i've spoken to past permanent secretaries, they all agree that the conservative ministers have actually been let down by by by their civil servants. i mean, it's not just this. i mean, remember before before we had this issue of only one and a half asylum seekers a week being deau half asylum seekers a week being dealt with by the caseworkers.

again, that's a civil service failure. there's a whole series of indicators i'm afraid, that says to me that the home office needs some pretty sizeable reform at the staff level, at, you know, making people turn up to work, making people do their job properly, maybe making people deliver, making people know their job. you know, you don't turn up as a minister. i would never have turned up for a select committee not knowing the answers to the obvious questions and heavens above. this was an obvious question. yeah >> wasn't it just very, very, very quick word. finally on bofis very quick word. finally on boris at the covid inquiry next week. will you be watching it with your popcorn at the ready? david i'll be watching extracts of it. >> i'm afraid i view this as the most expensive reality tv show on television . £100 million to on television. £100 million to hear a king's councillor show off. frankly, we i said back in 2021, we need two inquiries. a scientific one to find out what

the proper answer was. and then when we've done that, we can say who's who's to blame, what we're doing at moment is nothing doing at the moment is nothing more than sort of dominic more than a sort of dominic cummings yes. boris johnson blame game. david we don't want that. we don't want that. >> david davis you're on fire reform this morning. always in good fettle. lovely to speak to you.thank good fettle. lovely to speak to you. thank you very, very much for joining me. >> pleasure. >> a pleasure. >> a pleasure. >> care . now let's bring >> take care. now let's bring elaine david into the conversation . he's the brother conversation. he's the brother of 22 year old aviator david. he was kidnapped by hamas and then filmed in captivity by hamas inside gaza in a video they later later broadcast it . are later later broadcast it. are you there with me, elaine, can you there with me, elaine, can you hear me? look, thank you so much for your time. this must be i can't actually even begin to imagine what you and your family are going through . on one hand, are going through. on one hand, you must feel a lot of joy for the hostages that are being released. but you must be thinking , released. but you must be thinking, when on earth am i going to see my brother again?

>> yeah, of course. the emotions are mixed. very hard. um we are, of course , so happy for each of course, so happy for each hostage that is coming home. especially the kids and the women . um, yeah, but we also women. um, yeah, but we also know that my brother is still there, and they are are horrifying conditions where he's being held at. and we are just keep doing what we can to bring him back sooner. >> tell me what the last contact was that you had with him . was that you had with him. >> well, we had contact with him via whatsapp in the october 7th, actually , the last message from actually, the last message from him was at 7:40 am. and after that it disappeared. his cell phone was disconnected. his friends would not answer anymore. um but we actually, we

got lucky. um he was kidnapped and his friends , two of his and his friends, two of his friends, best friends were murdered. yeah. and and we discovered the videos by noon. it was about 2 pm, and we saw him in the video. >> i was going to say, i mean, you see the videos and you're thinking to yourself, thank goodness he's still alive. but obviously you're also thinking, what is happening to what on earth is happening to him ? is there any way like, are him? is there any way like, are you getting told by the israeli authorities where he is or what might be going on? do you know anything about who he might being held captive with, whether he's got adequate access to food and water? what have they told you about his conditions ? you about his conditions? >> well, we actually know very little . um, and also also the little. um, and also also the officials that came to us and told us what's going on. um they have no information on really

exact information and specific information about my brother . information about my brother. they have, um , actually more , they have, um, actually more, um, like intelligence, um , um, like intelligence, um, normal evaluation about his situation and the other hostages situation. we actually think that hamas is keeping them very good underground. i mean , in good underground. i mean, in a way that we cannot know what is going on down there, know how are you operating on a sort of day to day basis ? day to day basis? >> like are you guys and the family, are you sleeping? are you eating ? you're having you eating? you're having nightmares. i mean, because i think people should understand sometimes in this country or around the world, this is reported and people see the numbers and maybe they don't understand the personal cost. at the heart of all of this for families like yours. yeah that's right. >> me and other many others, many other families and our

loved ones just went to celebrate in a peace festival . celebrate in a peace festival. and the only crime they committed was celebrating. and they their punishment is being held by murderous people underground for almost 60 days now . and we as families , as i, i now. and we as families, as i, i can talk only for myself . i'm can talk only for myself. i'm having nightmares . um i barely having nightmares. um i barely eat. i actually forget to eat . eat. i actually forget to eat. and but we try to do anything we can really . travelling around can really. travelling around the world and talking to officials and interviewing and that's, that's something that keeps us going on. and we have to we have to keep living and do whatever we can. >> i mean, i was on the march against anti—semitism last week in london, and obviously that chant of bring them home, bring

them home resonates with anybody . dodi tell me just a little bit before you go about what eviatar is actually like. who is this brother of yours? what's he like? what's his character like? how do you think he's going to be coping with this horrific indus situation that he faces? well my brother is a young man , well my brother is a young man, is 22. >> he's a gentle and sensitive boy . um is >> he's a gentle and sensitive boy. um is such a loving >> he's a gentle and sensitive boy . um is such a loving brother boy. um is such a loving brother and a loving son to my parents. he's, um , an and he's a musician he's, um, an and he's a musician , actually. he plays the guitar. i play the piano . we play i play the piano. we play together , um, on a weekly basis . together, um, on a weekly basis. but i also know that he is a very strong and resilient and we have such a calm mindset . and i have such a calm mindset. and i hope that will help him to, uh, stay patient and brave . and i

stay patient and brave. and i also hope that he tries to, to help the people around him. >> yeah , look, i hope that it >> yeah, look, i hope that it helps for you to know that there are certainly people in britain, are certainly people in britain, a lot of people in britain who are thinking about you, thinking about your family and this awful situation that you face. and i just wish you for your parents and of course, your brother, just wish you for your parents andveryourse, your brother, just wish you for your parents andvery best, your brother, just wish you for your parents andvery best andrr brother, just wish you for your parents andvery best and hopether, just wish you for your parents andvery best and hope that you the very best and hope that you can bring him home. thank you for me, because i know forjoining me, because i know it's very, very difficult time it's a very, very difficult time for you. thank you. thank you so much. you. you've been much. thank you. if you've been moved by that item, as i have been , you can out more been, you can find out more about plight of the hostages about the plight of the hostages via miriam institute. that's via the miriam institute. that's m i ry via the miriam institute. that's m i r y a m via the miriam institute. that's m i rya m anyone via the miriam institute. that's m i r y a m anyone wishing to assist with the cause of delay should contact the miriam institute at w—w—w miriam institute at w—w—w miriam institute . org coming up, i'm institute. org coming up, i'm going to be speaking to the labour mp rosie duffield, who's been threatened with deselection. all that and more to come in just a moment.

on gb news the people's channel. britain's news channel . welcome britain's news channel. welcome back to the camilla tominey show. in just a moment, i'm going to be speaking to my old boss, the former editor of the sunday express, martin townsend, about the latest on harry and meghan. let's bring meghan. but first, let's bring rosie the rosie duffield into the conversation she's the conversation now. she's the labour mp for canterbury. hello rosie. i'm grateful for

rosie. look, i'm grateful for you because you speaking to me because you've to anybody , you've not spoken to anybody, any any journalist since this bizarre situation you found bizarre situation that you found yourself in with regard to your alleged anti—semitism. let's just talk the audience through this story. graham linehan , who this story. graham linehan, who is the creator of father ted tweet , did the following in tweet, did the following in response to a story about eddie izzard , in which eddie izzard izzard, in which eddie izzard was quoted saying , izzard, in which eddie izzard was quoted saying, i'm a trans superhero , but if i'd lived in superhero, but if i'd lived in nazi germany , i'd have been nazi germany, i'd have been murdered for it. nazi germany, i'd have been murdered for it . graham linehan murdered for it. graham linehan just captured that quote and said, ah, yes, the nazis famously bigoted against straight white men with blonde hair. you liked that tweet initially. that was march the 22nd, 2023. but then a three days later you unliked it . and days later you unliked it. and why did you unlike it. >> i think there was already a load of pylons by people like ash sarkar, the usual suspects who pile on on me. novara media reporter and i just thought, this is attracting too much stuff. it's been really misconstrued. so i'll, unlike it

to be not controversial then after you unlike it you get contacted by your whip the labour mp chris elmore , who labour mp chris elmore, who tells you to unlike it you say you have unliked it. >> yeah. the next thing you know you're being threatened with deselection not quite right. >> the whole sort of disciplinary at the time. my whip who is really lovely, was just saying there was controversy going on and that people had started to complain about it and you know, poor chap, he's lovely. he's just the messenger. he was just saying, look, know what's look, you need to know what's going and then said this going on. and then he said this process probably start. he process will probably start. he didn't what happening. didn't know what was happening. a i got a sort of a few days later i got a sort of official notices that i was being investigated and there was a but not for a disciplinary. but it's not for a disciplinary. but it's not for a you know what the a while that you know what the charges are. and i got sort charges are. and then i got sort of the charge sheet and anti semitism and just sort of semitism and i just sort of thought was a of a joke. thought it was a bit of a joke. i let's be devil's i mean, let's be devil's advocate. >> you could say that i suppose equating the trans movement in any way to sort of the holocaust orindeed any way to sort of the holocaust or indeed mentioning nazis is

unsavoury. the jewish community don't like it because they say that it kind of lessens the impact of what happened during the holocaust. we can the holocaust. so we can understand that. we could even say linehan has say perhaps that linehan has been misjudged . we can see also been misjudged. we can see also what trying to say here. what he's trying to say here. he's come on, eddie, he's saying, come on, eddie, you're not a victim of persecution just because you're trans. >> graham linehan is a satirist. you know, i used to write satire before got to be an mp and before i got to be an mp and i recognised that he was taking the piss out of someone who essentially he was the essentially he was in the privileged position the privileged position of being the very person the nazis very person that the nazis described as being an ideal, a tall, blonde, straight white man. and i thought that there was so claims that he was so much he claims that he wants to be called shy at times, but yes, he is still male trans person. but you know, we didn't use that language. and the nazis certainly didn't use that language. thought was language. and i thought it was really, tasteless put really, really tasteless to put himself in a situation where jews gay people and roma jews and gay people and roma travellers the disabled travellers were and the disabled were persecuted . and it doesn't were persecuted. and it doesn't come into categories , as come into those categories, as far as i'm aware. >> i mean, the anti—semitism

charge particularly charge is particularly interesting in your because interesting in your case because you've been a vocal supporter of jews. in fact , the jewish jews. in fact, the jewish chronicles editor stephen pollard said this about you as editor of the jewish chronicle. ispent editor of the jewish chronicle. i spent years after corbyn became labour leader fighting the party's anti—semitism. most labour mps were either complicit in it or said nothing to upset party members. rosie duffield was one of the very few who refused to be cowed by the party's jew haters. now it strikes me, i don't know how you feel. you've made an enemy of the left because you've been anti corbyn, you've made an enemy of the left because you have questioned trans ideology . have questioned trans ideology. so is your suspicion that you're just being forced out of the party in any. >> i suspect that that it isn't about anti—semitism because anyone just has to google me and realise that my record on that is exemplary. and i've never had an apology for the kind of 3 or 4 years of absolute hatred i received from the left wing of the party for standing up

against anti—semitism . it was against anti—semitism. it was horrendous. there were female mps mostly that were deselected and that found that they couldn't carry on. it was so awful. i'm not jewish, so it wasn't as bad for me, but i got so much abuse for standing up for my jewish colleagues and i've never had any apology or understanding about that. >> no standing up for women. yeah.i >> no standing up for women. yeah. i mean, i asked you the last time i interviewed you, which was quite months ago. have you with keir starmer? >> absolutely not. we last >> absolutely not. no, we last spoke september 20, 21, 2021? spoke in september 20, 21, 2021? yeah, just before our conference, there was a big controversy about me liking a tweet again about women not having only women had cervixes or something . and no, we haven't or something. and no, we haven't had a conversation. >> so what's your analysis of starmer in this whole situation? you know, you haven't been supported on your views, trying to stand up for women in the face of what you claim is sort of extreme trans activism , of quite extreme trans activism, because i know you've had a lot of on media. now of problems on social media. now there's talk deselecting there's this talk of deselecting you quotes you because your quotes anti—semitic. he must know if

he's led the charge against anti—semites in the labour party. who's on his side and who isn't? >> you would have thought so . >> you would have thought so. and we had a recent controversial vote and i didn't break the whip on that issue because, you know, i was broadly supportive of leadership. so supportive of the leadership. so it is a bit strange. i mean, he would say if you were to ask him that he couldn't get involved in disciplinary matters and that he couldn't interrupt this couldn't sort of interrupt this system. but it goes to the nec, our national executive committee, who are overall in charge of deciding happens charge of deciding what happens to mps under this selection . and to mps under this selection. and some of the people that complain about me constantly have representatives on that. nec so the lgbt labour group who absolutely hate me and want me to be thrown out, i mean, are you very influential? >> are you jenny finley sort of afraid you're going to be turfed out of the labour party? >> i hope not. but the ultimate destination of any disciplinary process could be that an mp is, you know, removed from the whip. >> so what's your message to starmer on this?

>> it would be really nice to have some support at some point. it really, really would be nice to have conversation to to have a conversation to understand what thinks about understand what he thinks about all of this and to understand if he's support women more he's going to support women more vocally. who now in my case, i line up with the party's change of policy. so i don't really understand what i'm supposed to have done so wrong. i mean, that wasn't an anti—semitic tweet. and i withdrew my like, in case it offended anyone. but all of my jewish friends. and the reason i think this probably got out, this story is because i've had to, as part of the case that's been going on for nine months, to approach months, i've had to approach people statements . people to give me statements. his jewish and allies in his jewish friends and allies in the the commons and in the lords, in the commons and in bodies like the board of depufies bodies like the board of deputies statement deputies to write a statement supporting me and to say that i'm not anti—semitic . so i'm not anti—semitic. so i suspect that's where this story came from. >> confuses me it is >> what confuses me about it is we've keir starmer on the >> what confuses me about it is we'veof keir starmer on the >> what confuses me about it is we'veof the eir starmer on the >> what confuses me about it is we'veof the sunday ner on the >> what confuses me about it is we'veof the sunday telegraph front of the sunday telegraph today inside writing an op today and inside writing an op ed he's channelling his ed where he's channelling his inner thatcher. ed where he's channelling his inner was thatcher. ed where he's channelling his inner was a thatcher. ed where he's channelling his inner was a surprise.. >> that was a surprise. >> that was a surprise. >> what's your reaction to that? >> i've already had a few

emails. i've got old mining villages in my part of kent, and it's not going down too well so far. so right . so, i it's not going down too well so far. so right. so, i mean, i need to read the article properly because i'm sure it wasn't just about well, it was basically saying, i can summarise it for you because i read it this morning. >> know, we sort out >> you know, we can sort out brexit we can sort out brexit and we can sort out immigration actually, immigration and actually, you know, the aspiration that thatcher the early 80 thatcher brought in the early 80 s something that we should s is something that we should emulate country is emulate because the country is going in a handcart, going to hell in a handcart, a little like winter of little bit like the winter of discontent, i'm the man to discontent, and i'm the man to save it. okay >> well, i guess that's that's a good message broadly, but i think thatcher thing isn't think the thatcher thing isn't going well with the going to go down well with the left. i said it without mentioning that particular. >> think he's >> but why do you think he's mentioning thatcher? >> i'd have to ask >> i don't know. i'd have to ask him, but i mean, i guess i guess it is the aspiration or maybe the man, of the the white van man, sort of the past, perhaps he's talking past, perhaps as he's talking about ownership things about home ownership and things like but there are people like that. but there are people who are not impressed who are already not impressed who are already not impressed who emailed i mean, who have emailed me. so, i mean, do have confidence in his leadership? >> because from a >> i ask you because from a personal perspective, you're not

spoken guy 2021. spoken to this guy since 2021. and of all labour mps and i think of all labour mps you have had a particularly rough with the opposition. rough ride with the opposition. you've the trans you've had from the trans movement indeed with movement and indeed now with this race. >> i mean it would be >> yeah, i mean it would be nice. would be nice to know nice. it would be nice to know that back of mps that he's got the back of mps who this kind of thing. who have this kind of thing. it's not nice. we get a lot of abuse, women get a lot of abuse. we're getting a of abuse we're getting a lot of abuse over the middle east crisis on either side. it would be either side. yes. so it would be nice feel we're more nice to feel that we're more sort of together group that he sort of a together group that he feels supporting feels that he's maybe supporting a bit more broadly. >> you mentioned earlier about, you know, being almost cancelled for retweeting about the fact that men can't have services. are we confident that starmer now knows whether or not a woman can have a penis or not? >> we hope so. yeah. i mean, the fact that the party came out with a policy in the summer of saying that we don't support self—id. >> yes, that was a good sign. i still haven't had anyone talking to that in the party. i to me about that in the party. i don't they get to the don't know how they get to the to policy decision, but to the policy decision, but nobody's spoken to about nobody's spoken to me about that. so guess we're going in

that. so i guess we're going in the that. the right direction on that. >> there a timeline on >> and is there a timeline on what might in this what might happen in this particular case for you? >> i no idea. >> i have no idea. >> i have no idea. >> i have no idea. >> i mean, some the discipline list, the list of mps are list, the list of mps who are being most them, being disciplined, most of them, as will there's as everyone will know, there's some sort cloud about some sort of cloud about possible harassment or , possible sexual harassment or, you know, sometimes racism or things that they shouldn't have said in public. and most of them that i know have been given some kind of broad timeline with my own process . yes, own particular process. yes, i haven't been given a timeline. >> why is that? eight months? >> why is that? eight months? >> i have no idea. if it's a process that i've never come across in any other organisation andifs across in any other organisation and it's kind of it's supposed to be independent and transparent and it's neither of those things. >> do you have any idea like who is leading this against you? i mean, without necessarily naming you, mean, seen you, i mean, i've seen screenshots particular labour screenshots of particular labour affiliated society is organising against societies like against labour societies like whom lgbt labour are. >> i'm not saying they're behind this particular thing. maybe but they certainly organise against me and anyone within the

leadership or the leader's office. there's a big sort of crossover between on staff and his office staff. you know, people on the nec, people who are in lgbt labour they all kind of know each other. they're all sort of london based and they all possibly we don't necessarily like me. i don't know. >> is being a labour mp lived up to the expectation for you? >> i came here to do a job. i came to westminster to do a job, to represent my constituents, to fight against things like the two child limit that i'm really opposed to fight back in the day against brexit because my constituency is close constituency is so close to europe. and our take on it is so different to lots of the other cities in the uk. i didn't come here to distracted by these here to be distracted by these internal rules constantly and it's really disappointing actually . actually. >> rosie duffield thank you very much indeed for sharing your story this morning. labour party might want to take note of that interview now. another row has engulfed the royal family this

week after a dutch version of omid scobie's new book, end game, to the alleged royal game, named to the alleged royal racist, who supposedly discussed prince skin colour prince archie's skin colour before born. i'll be before he was born. i'll be discussing it all with the former editor of the sunday express , my former martin express, my former boss, martin townsend, a minute. townsend, in just a minute. don't anywhere .

company right through until 7:00 this evening. gb news the people's . channel

people's. channel >> welcome back to the camilla tominey show in just a moment, i'm going to be joined by reverend doctor bernard randall, who was referred to prevent, prevent people for questioning trans ideology. but before that, let's bring martin townsend, former editor of the sunday express, my former boss, into the conversation. i love you. find it funny that i say that, but i just like to put you into context. let's talk about end game . omid scobie. yes, expose game. omid scobie. yes, expose marvellous. now, obviously you'll be familiar with the story of the names of the alleged royal racist ending up in dutch book. scobie says in the dutch book. scobie says it was lost in translation in seemingly it was found in translation . funny that what's translation. funny that what's your general impression of the idea that the king and indeed the princess of wales may be racist for having a conversation about the skin tone of archie ? about the skin tone of archie? >> i just think that's complete nonsense. i think everybody has these conversations about , you these conversations about, you know, my daughter was born with brown eyes. know, my daughter was born with bro we'vees. know, my daughter was born with bro we've all got blue eyes. we >> we've all got blue eyes. we all for ages and all discussing that for ages and ages. ever the baby is,

ages. what ever the baby is, whoever baby is, you have whoever the baby is, you have those discussions say those discussions then say that's understanding now. those discussions then say thaand understanding now. those discussions then say tha and atunderstanding now. those discussions then say tha and at thezrstanding now. those discussions then say tha and at the time|ding now. those discussions then say tha and at the time iing now. those discussions then say tha and at the time i think>w. >> and at the time i think meghan word concerns meghan used the word concerns about what would look like . about what that would look like. yeah. and we're saying, well, it wasn't . learn what wasn't concern. learn about what it look it was just it would look like. it was just curiosity. yes, but will that hold future? you know, hold into the future? you know, in 30 years time, will young in 20, 30 years time, will young people be reflecting on the king and his daughter in and indeed his daughter in law or in laws and or both daughter in laws and seeing the same light, do seeing it in the same light, do you think? >> well, this is the >> well, see, this is the dangen >> well, see, this is the danger, it? i think danger, isn't it? and i think this is this is such a this this is why this is such a this is why it is serious, because, as you know, these days, we know that innocent remark like that an innocent remark like that, which most us that, which which most of us would in everyday life would just have in everyday life about newborn baby, know , about a newborn baby, you know, what's the baby going to look like? mean, my granddad was like? i mean, my granddad was very or he was very dark skinned or he was like, know, it's one of like, you know, it's one of those you just about those things you just talk about all time. not all the time, all the time. not all the time, but, you know, at certain moments, pregnant when someone's pregnant. course, pregnant. yeah, but of course, these word racism is these days the word racism is bandied around, left, right and centre. and centre. every everybody and everything racist . the everything is racist. the countryside's racist. you know,

the are racist. the animals are racist. >> couple rowed from >> the couple rowed back from this they thought was this in what they thought was a good a massive example of global gaslighting. yes, said no. gaslighting. yes, they said no. we to suggest we never intended to suggest they racist. we were just they were racist. we were just talking unconscious talking about unconscious bias. yes. therefore, lowering the threshold which their nearest yes. therefore, lowering the thre dearest which their nearest yes. therefore, lowering the thre dearest could] their nearest yes. therefore, lowering the thre dearest could be ieir nearest yes. therefore, lowering the thre dearest could be found arest and dearest could be found guilty. >> w unconscious bias >> well, yes, unconscious bias that leads to social that then leads to social engineering. so you're not unconscious yes, indeed . i unconscious bias? yes, indeed. i mean, get that. i get that mean, no, i get that. i get that they rowed back on that. but the fact the matter is that that fact of the matter is that that word is used. that word is used actually, that in scobie's book, i page nine or i think on page nine or something, says were something, he says there were racist, been racist racist, there had been racist allegations against royal allegations against the royal family specific at family without being specific at that point. >> what you make of bob >> what do you make of bob seely, for the isle of seely, the mp for the isle of wight, talking about now stripping their titles? >> the only thing i'd say about thatis >> the only thing i'd say about that is i don't think that i mean, i think that's very possible. that's a possible route. could go down. but route. it could go down. but then course, meghan is still then of course, meghan is still princess meghan and she actually quite likes being, doesn't it ? quite likes being, doesn't it? >> so one of them all over again i >> absolutely, yeah. which is the other problem. we don't want

to martyrs this couple. the other problem. we don't want to you martyrs this couple. the other problem. we don't want to you know, irs this couple. the other problem. we don't want to you know, i; this couple. the other problem. we don't want to you know, i do this couple. the other problem. we don't want to you know, i do wonderuple. the other problem. we don't want to you know, i do wonder about so, you know, i do wonder about that. i could completely see why he's asked for it. and i was expecting to happen. but expecting that to happen. but i do whether it's a do wonder whether it's a slightly see whether it's the right way to go, frankly. >> i mean, you've been a newspaper and indeed newspaper editor and indeed editor okay. magazine. editor of okay. magazine. so you've seen it from one side, the coverage, but you're the press coverage, but you're also pr so let's talk also now a pr man. so let's talk about the pr, first of all. i mean, royals are emerging, mean, the royals are emerging, okay, from all this. they've adopted the complain, adopted the never complain, never explain mantra the late never explain mantra of the late queen. there's talk about them suing . should they sue? should suing. should they sue? should they comment ? should they they comment? should they release statement ? what do you release a statement? what do you reckon? well i mean, as i said earlier, i do think being essentially they are being labelled as racist, whether know that's that's that's now the way a lot of the william said at the time we are very much not a racist family. >> yes he did he made that point that enough. mean you that enough. well i mean you know and here it comes again here it comes again. this you know this it's in the book. it's been all the newspapers.

been all over the newspapers. i mean, it it does look bad for them even though i don't personally think it is racist in any way, shape or form. and it's because racism is now such a loaded word. they would be within their rights to sue over it. definitely. >> then doesn't fuel >> but then doesn't it just fuel the yeah. the fire? yeah. >> well , and the fire? yeah. >> well, and you know, while it would be within their rights, i wouldn't advise them to do so. however, what i do think has happened and i think this is happened and i do think this is a for harry is that that a tragedy for harry is that that door reconciliation, door on a reconciliation, reconciliation is completely slammed shut. i think you could reconciliation is completely slamawayshut. i think you could reconciliation is completely slam away theiri think you could reconciliation is completely slam away their titles. you could reconciliation is completely slam away their titles. theycould take away their titles. they could whatever, which could be sued or whatever, which i think they would be. i don't think they would be. i don't think the royal family would that that action. but would take that that action. but the real the fact is that the real problem harry is was problem for harry is he was trying to reconcile with charles. rang he showed charles. he rang him. he showed him of the family and him pictures of the family and everything else. and suddenly this information, which clearly, you know, omid scobie had had in his notebook for years and years because if you go to publisher because if you go to a publisher with a like finding with a book like finding freedom, the first book, the first the publisher first thing the publisher is going to say is have you got two books? because think the

books? because if they think the first is going to be really, first one is going to be really, you fantastic, then you know, fantastic, then they're ask, have you they're going to ask, have you got enough material two got enough material for two books? familiar with all books? he was familiar with all of closest associates, of meghan's closest associates, presumably had conversations with expect got with them all. i expect he's got notebooks but notebooks full of stuff, but also a court case heard that former communications former head of communications jason had had email jason knauf had had email exchanges with meghan about the book and its contents. >> so we know that they collaborated with the first book. we've heard nothing book. yeah, we've heard nothing from release from them. should they release a statement? should the sussexes address this and say, if it's the truth, if we didn't have anything to with this book, the truth, if we didn't have anytknow,o with this book, the truth, if we didn't have anytknow, this with this book, the truth, if we didn't have anytknow, this bloke's s book, the truth, if we didn't have anytknow, this bloke's just ok, the truth, if we didn't have anytknow, this bloke's just come you know, this bloke's just come out all this . out with all this. >> well, that's what i >> well, that's that's what i think weighing up think they're weighing up in their minds at the moment because i think this has taken them surprise. well, them by surprise. well, certainly level of certainly that level of information in book information in that book has taken and taken them by surprise. and there's in my mind that there's no doubt in my mind that this a this is this is this is a this is basically a publicity stunt. this to sales for the this is how to get sales for the book. this is nothing that's happened has happened by accident. words jump accident. the words didn't jump into and jump back out into a book and jump back out again. they were again. you know, they were included transcript. included in the transcript. somebody be i think somebody somewhere thought put it in,

take you sort of had take it out. and you sort of had this well, i wondered this whole well, i wondered whether an early version might have gone the dutch because have gone to the dutch because apparently they like to get their english translation out early speak early because the dutch speak engush a early because the dutch speak english a great extent english to such a great extent that sometimes just buy the that they sometimes just buy the bookin that they sometimes just buy the book in english. >> want their copy >> so the dutch want their copy out as soon as possible. out there as soon as possible. >> legal, perhaps? >> free legal, perhaps? >> free legal, perhaps? >> i mean, who >> yeah, maybe. i mean, who knows? but just. i just can't understand could have understand how it could have been translated in. >> think this is >> but i do think this is i think this will have been a shock for harry. and i think because i he was making because i think he was making moves some sort moves towards some sort of reconciliation. think reconciliation. and i do think that now slammed shut. that door is now slammed shut. >> question, really >> final question, really briefly, reputations >> final question, really brieflnow. reputations >> final question, really brieflnow. i reputations >> final question, really brieflnow. i mean,�*putations >> final question, really brieflnow. i mean, they've1s >> final question, really brieflnow. i mean, they've not right now. i mean, they've not been enhanced by this. >> mean, know, the >> i mean, you know, the sussexes now seen as as sussexes are now seen as as being kind of, if you like, in cahoots with scobie, cahoots with with omid scobie, who operating. i would who is who is operating. i would say 2 or tiers below say about 2 or 3 tiers below those tabloid newspapers like the the sun the sun and the whoever the sun and the mail, that that that harry himself complained about in the book, 'spare' you know, he is now , there's a huge irony he is now, there's a huge irony here. you know this is behaviour that you wouldn't even find you

wouldn't find tabloids . you wouldn't find in tabloids. you know seen the of know we've seen the kind of nervous that had nervous ness that papers had here even printing names. >> so funny thing papers >> so funny thing about papers is they offer a right of reply. well, indeed. thank you very much, martin townsend, for joining morning. joining me this morning. pleasure. reverend doctor bernard randall joins me now. he's who is sacked he's a chaplain who is sacked from job college. from his job at trent college. we have sort of talked about it. reverend but let's just go into the details of this, because you're now suing trent college and its headmasterjust and indeed its headmasterjust explain briefly why. >> oh, goodness . it's such a >> oh, goodness. it's such a long story. well, i was the school chaplain and long story short, i gave a sermon in the chapel saying that people didn't have agree with everything have to agree with everything that activists say. that lgbt+ activists say. >> they make up their own minds. they may hold to traditional christian understanding or they can accept all the lgbt stuff. and that would be fine too. yeah for that, i was initially sacked, later reinstated on appeal sacked, later reinstated on appeal, but with a list of 20 conditions, including censorship of all sermons not allowed to mention anywhere around the

school, anything that might upset or offend anyone. and i was also reported to prevent the anti—terror scheme . i was anti—terror scheme. i was reported to the local authority safeguarding officers and the church, safeguarding officials . church, safeguarding officials. so i was accused of being a terrorist and a child abuser. right. for giving a sermon which simply set out you may accept different viewpoints. >> i mean. okay. and i accept that. that's your intention with that. that's your intention with that sermon. can you imagine if you a child listening to it you are a child listening to it who might be gay, who might be trans , and then they might trans, and then they might reflect, look, you know , the reflect, look, you know, the church isn't as inclusive as it seems . this reverend speaking seems. this reverend is speaking to saying that what to me, saying that what i believe might not hold water with others. that puts me in a really awkward position. you might children feel might have made children feel bad themselves . bad about themselves. >> accept that they're in >> well, accept that they're in the same position as, say, a muslim or hindu child, of which there were those in the school orindeed there were those in the school or indeed an atheist. part of the point of a chapel is to present the christian understanding, but part of what i also wanted to do was to say, you know, i'm christian whole

heartedly and that allows you to be whole heartedly whatever your belief system is. so if we say you cannot challenge someone's beliefs in an education context, what is the point of education then? yes. so yes, of course there's a certain sensitivity there's a certain sensitivity there and i fully understand that. there and i fully understand that . but the response should be that. but the response should be not sack the chaplain who might possibly have upset someone , possibly have upset someone, rather work with that upset and say, okay, on balance this is there a way to have a conversation about this? can we deal with this in a in a way that gives you resilience for the future? because if they if these children spend their whole lives being told, if you're upset, that's terrible upset, that's a terrible thing. they will grow into adulthood as very fragile adults. and if they are taken and sold , okay, you're are taken and sold, okay, you're upset. let's explore that. but aren't christians allowed to have their views just you're have their views just as you're allowed views? yes let's allowed your views? yes let's work then. they develop work with it then. they develop resilience they go through resilience and they go through life adults. and that's life as happy adults. and that's actually what we're aiming for. >> know whether anyone

>> do you know whether anyone actually complained about the sermon? mean, how did it sermon? i mean, how did it suddenly this happened 2019, sermon? i mean, how did it su(the|ly this happened 2019, sermon? i mean, how did it smthe way.is happened 2019, sermon? i mean, how did it smthe way. you've ened 2019, sermon? i mean, how did it smthe way. you've been 2019, sermon? i mean, how did it smthe way. you've been helped. by the way. you've been helped by the way. you've been helped by called christian by a group called christian concern. that's right. who have been fantastic. but did people complain? of complain? were there a flurry of complaints? pick complaints? let's just pick out one that of summarises one line that kind of summarises what view was. you're what your view was. you're entitled, if you you told entitled, if you wish. you told the children to look at some of the children to look at some of the claims made about gender identity think is identity and think that it is incoherent to say, for example, that gender quite independent that gender is quite independent of biological but of any biological factor, but that person's physiology of any biological factor, but that |be;on's physiology of any biological factor, but that |be changed siology of any biological factor, but that |be changedsioimatch of any biological factor, but that |be changed sioimatch his should be changed to match his or gender i mean, or her claim. gender i mean, that probably is quite difficult for might be confused for people who might be confused about their indeed about their gender and indeed their orientation , but their sexual orientation, but who complained ? who complained? >> well, mostly members of staff , right. who who expressed concern on behalf of people who might have been upset, which is what we so often see with these email campaigns. i'm not upset, but someone else might be. yeah, there was one pupil who said , there was one pupil who said, andifs there was one pupil who said, and it's an anonymous email, so i think it's a she who said that she was she was upset and her

beliefs were challenged and she's entitled to those beliefs. absolutely. of course she is. but she's not, i would suggest, entitled to say no. no one must challenge my beliefs. >> i mean, do you think this is a result of, you know, transgender ideology sort of taking precedence over other ideologies ? is it also a result ideologies? is it also a result of an increased amount of secularism in society in general that you think that christian views are being forced out of school teachings? >> i think it's a combination of both of those things. i think society become more on the society has become more on the face of it, secular, traditional religion has declined and in its place as a rushed in all sorts of other ideas . and the trans of other ideas. and the trans and queer ideology that's the bit that i have a problem with. i don't mind people being gay or lesbian. they must make up their own minds about how to live. >> just to qualify on that, you're using the word queer because that is how because that is now how some people identify it. people are who identify it. previously was used , curiously

previously was used, curiously as a slur for homosexuals . a as a slur for homosexuals. a very odd thing, putting it in the new context of lgbtq+ the tcu plus and queer theory capital q, capital t, understood? yes um, do you feel then that i mean the prevent referral is odd? i think it would strike anybody listening or watching this to be odd or then this referral to dbs and for safeguarding could stop you from ever working with children again. i mean, is your view that that's just over the top? it's vindictive. it doesn't really reflect the crime. >> it feels absolutely vindictive because, i say, i vindictive because, as i say, i was reinstated on appeal with all these conditions and then i was made redundant during the covid. and feel that was just covid. and i feel that was just an excuse to get rid of someone who was too religious. be that as it may, i was employed by the school for 18 months after the sermon , and i was fine to work sermon, and i was fine to work with children when the employment tribunal judgement came out, which we lost, and that's under appeal. and everybody was surprised, i

think, at the result . but then think, at the result. but then the headteacher decided to refer me to the teaching regulation agency disclosure and barring service to try and get me banned from ever teaching , ever working from ever teaching, ever working with children, which would include in a church what effect would that have on you, rev? >> i mean, well, do you consider yourself a risk to children? that's the suggestion here. >> well, absolutely not. no and it's worth saying that i've got documentary of people documentary evidence of people saying there is no suggestion that reverend randall has ever acted inappropriately towards anyone. acted inappropriately towards anyone . so that is admitted. anyone. so that is admitted. it's all about the sermon. it's all about the beliefs. >> looking back at the sermon now and when you reread it, would you still deliver that sermon again with the benefit of hindsight, would you have toned it down a bit? do you stand by it down a bit? do you stand by it 100? >> well, i stand by the ideas 100. would i rephrase a few bits 7 100. would i rephrase a few bits ? possibly i would, but i'm not sure i would particularly tone it down. but there are a few

phrases i might go, yeah, i could have said that a little bit better there. but that's always going to be the case. but the core ideas is children deserve to be encouraged to think that is what education is supposed to for. be and i don't want to dumb down and treat them as if they're incapable of thinking for themselves because because i treat them as human beings and human beings can think they're not babies . think they're not babies. they're not unable to. >> although there could be an argument was it too much of an aduu argument was it too much of an adult sermon for a child audience? >> i don't think so. i mean , >> i don't think so. i mean, people can read it for themselves and make up their own mind . but i think that themselves and make up their own mind. but i think that part of what educators should do is challenge and raise the bar and say, come up and meet me at this interesting place and some children will be straight on it and others will take time. but my sermons were always at that sort of i'm going to challenge you a bit, sort of level. and i

didn't have people complaining about that until this sermon. so i think it's the topic of the sermon, not the style. that's really the issue. >> reverend randall, thank you very much for sharing your story this having me. do this morning. having me. i do need read a comment in need to read out a comment in response by trent college. it's previously responded to the dispute dr. dispute with reverend dr. randall by stating that it is, and i quote, an inclusive community where we are proud of our commitment support the our commitment to support the being everyone. we want every being of everyone. we want every single to be safe and feel single pupil to be safe and feel understood here. the school is defending the claims now , that's defending the claims now, that's all for me today. what a jam packed show we had. stay warm . packed show we had. stay warm. it is a little chilly outside. i'm going to be back next week at 9.3. nought. you heard at 9.3. nought. and you heard from portillo. got from michael portillo. he's got a great show up next so stay tuned for that . tuned for that. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hello welcome to your latest gb news weather. i'm ellie glaisyer here. a much cloudier

start compared to what we've seen recently across the southern half of the uk today, but further north still a very cold and frosty start this morning. low pressure still very much charge, sitting to much in charge, sitting out to the with various the southwest with various occlusions running their way eastwards uk eastwards across much of the uk through this afternoon . this through this afternoon. this will of rain will bring bands of rain and cloud and showery rain as cloud and some showery rain as well across parts of england and wales. again perhaps turning wintry of north wintry over the hills of north wales, parts of the midlands and northern well. but northern england as well. but for northern ireland, scotland definitely best of definitely seeing the best of the afternoon. the sunshine this afternoon. still cold despite still feeling cold despite that sunshine . parts scotland sunshine. parts of scotland perhaps staying zero. but perhaps staying below zero. but under cloud and rain, under all that cloud and rain, the southern half the uk the southern half of the uk definitely than we've definitely milder than we've seen through sunday seen recently through sunday evening. rain pushes up evening. further rain pushes up from the southwest overnight and into the start of monday. there's likely to turn very heavy across the southern half of the uk, parts of england and wales those accumulations wales seeing those accumulations build of the build up into the start of the new week further north, new working week further north, though, under though, another cold night under any skies, we any of those clear skies, we could a risk of ice with could see a risk of ice with temperatures widely dropping down freezing across

down below freezing across scotland, but scotland, northern england, but milder again across the south—west new working south—west into the new working week. rain very much in charge across parts of england and wales. again turning wintry across of wales, across the hills of wales, northern where could northern england, where we could see centimetres across see up to ten centimetres across the . very day, the pennines. a very damp day, though, much of the southern though, for much of the southern half of the uk. northern ireland and seeing and scotland, though seeing plenty with some plenty of sunshine with some showers along those showers pushing in along those eastern still eastern coasts. but still feeling cold here with temperatures single temperatures in the low single figures . figures. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boiler year. sponsors of weather here on .

gb news. >> good morning and welcome to sunday with michael portillo. december is here so let's count down to christmas with a kaleidoscope of culture, history and good debate . i'll be and good debate. i'll be speaking to the family of a 21 year old male israeli hostage who remains in the hands of hamas as fighting between the terror group and israel resumes. our politics panel this week will dissect the latest headlines. sir keir starmer has paid tribute to margaret thatcher because she sought to drag britain out its stupor drag britain out of its stupor by setting loose our natural entrepreneurialism . will entrepreneurialism. will disillusioned tories be impressed ? and will left wing impressed? and will left wing labour mps be chuffed at? how